0:00

I'm gonna start in an analogy jar, you guys are gonna have to put five bucks in it.

0:04

Terrible analogy jar. The Podcast Standards Project

0:05

has launched publicly. So our

0:16

So podcasters and

0:16

listeners should really care

0:16

statement about what the Podcast

0:16

Standards Project is, is that

0:19

we're a grassroots industry

0:19

coalition dedicated to creating

0:21

standards and practices that

0:21

improve the open podcast

0:24

ecosystem for both listeners and

0:24

creators. So there's a couple of

0:27

words that are worth exploring

0:27

in that statement. And the ones

0:31

I want to dig into is like that

0:31

we are advocating for and

0:35

pushing for open podcasting. But

0:35

we're not necessarily like a

0:38

body that is intending to go out

0:38

and invent new things. So like,

0:44

what's the difference between what the Podcast Standards Project is and what is

0:46

Podcasting 2.0? Well, Podcasting

0:49

2.0 launched three years ago,

0:49

and they've done a great job of

0:53

inventing a whole bunch of new,

0:53

they're really called elements.

0:56

Some people call them tags, some

0:56

people call them features, but

0:59

they're like tags that live

0:59

inside of an RSS feed that

1:01

extend the functionality of

1:01

podcasting. So some of those

1:05

could be things from like, how

1:05

do your listeners support your

1:08

show? What is the data that you

1:08

make available about your show,

1:11

about the Podcast Standards

1:11

Project too, because it's going

1:11

like a location tag or a

1:11

transcript tag or a funding tag,

1:15

that's like on the invention

1:15

side, that work is still going

1:17

to take place in the podcasting

1:17

to auto project, we don't want

1:20

any of that work to come over to

1:20

the podcast, Anders project. But

1:22

what the podcast Anders project

1:22

can do is that we can look at

1:25

that project, we can participate

1:25

in it. And when we start to see

1:28

some momentum around certain

1:28

tags, certain new technologies,

1:33

we can say, Hey, these are

1:33

really good, is it time to start

1:35

bringing it into a standard. And

1:35

the benefit of calling it a

1:39

standard is that you can get

1:39

more adoption that way. So now

1:42

we can adopt it into a standard

1:42

spec. And we can start at the

1:47

maybe the recommendation level,

1:47

and then move it to a required

1:50

level, possibly down the road

1:50

and say, Hey, if you're going to

1:53

be publishing RSS feeds, you

1:53

should be including these tags,

1:55

you should be supporting them on

1:55

both sides. That way, when new

1:58

apps come on board, they can

1:58

look at one standard spec. And

1:59

to elevate podcasting as a

1:59

whole. It's going to elevate the

2:01

they can say, hey, I can support

2:01

all of this stuff. And I can

2:03

experience that podcasters and

2:03

podcast listeners have, right?

2:03

expect broad support on both

2:03

sides. So if I'm building a

2:07

podcast listening app, I can

2:07

expect to see these tags in the

2:08

Yeah, I think so. I mean,

2:08

our hope is that everybody who's

2:10

RSS feeds that I ingest. Or if

2:10

I'm a new podcast host that's

2:15

coming on the scene, I'm saying,

2:15

Hey, which tags that I should I

2:17

create an interface around for

2:17

people to be able to input data?

2:20

Well, this is the spec that you

2:20

can look at. And you know that

2:23

if your podcasters put in

2:23

location, or transcripts or

2:26

something like that, well, those

2:26

are part of the standard. So I

2:28

should expect that at least a

2:28

good portion of the podcast

2:31

playing apps would be able to

2:31

support those and make use of

2:33

that data. building in the podcast space

2:50

starts by supporting the

2:52

standards at a minimum, like we

2:52

would love for that to become

2:55

table stakes. And then we also

2:55

want to encourage

2:58

experimentation, like, let's

2:58

take value for value. For

3:01

example, right now, value for

3:01

value is not a part of the

3:04

proposed standard, right. But

3:04

that doesn't mean that people

3:08

shouldn't experiment with it.

3:08

People shouldn't be building

3:10

into their interfaces shouldn't

3:10

be getting feedback from

3:13

podcasters feedback from podcast

3:13

listeners, that podcast app

3:17

shouldn't be building an end trying to figure out how to do it. Like we want to keep the

3:18

experimentation side going. But

3:22

at the same time, you also want

3:22

to set here's the base standard

3:26

that everyone should try to

3:26

adhere to. So that we know that

3:29

we're all building in the same

3:29

direction, so that we know if

3:31

we're building something new, if

3:31

I build this, it will have

3:34

support. And the other side of

3:34

that coin is that if I build

3:36

something, it might not have

3:36

broad support. But that's

3:38

totally fine. Like that's how

3:38

things get broad support is that

3:41

people take risks, they

3:41

experiment, they think they've

3:44

got a good idea. They see

3:44

something that maybe the podcast

3:47

namespace project is doing. And

3:47

they're excited about it. Great,

3:50

build it out, try to build an audience around it build momentum, and maybe you help get

3:51

it to the place where it can be

3:54

considered as a standard.

3:55

So podcasting starts

3:55

depending on exactly how you

4:00

want to label the beginning of

4:00

it, so around 2001, Dave Winer,

4:04

who developed RSS and Adam Curry

4:04

get together, and Adam really is

4:09

like, Hey, let's get this audio

4:09

stuff into RSS. And they kind of

4:13

build up this baseline idea of

4:13

what podcasting is, and starts

4:18

off really small. And a very

4:18

slowly people start doing these

4:21

kinds of broadcast shows, and

4:21

people are starting to download

4:24

them. And then you see hosting

4:24

companies and apps start to come

4:28

on the scene. Big change happens

4:28

when Steve Jobs finds out about

4:32

it. And he's like, this is

4:32

really cool. Let's get this into

4:34

iTunes. And podcasting just

4:34

continues to slowly grow, and it

4:39

was open. That meant every

4:39

podcast app worked with every

4:43

podcast out there. There was

4:43

interoperability between

4:47

everything. Same way that if you

4:47

have a website, you can be

4:50

accessed whether or not people

4:50

are using Internet Explorer or

4:54

Chrome or new browser like Ark.

4:54

They're all going to be able to

4:58

go to the same website. That's

4:58

how it was. And then around mid

5:02

2010s, the serial moment was

5:02

really important because a lot

5:05

of new people started getting

5:05

into podcasts, it was big enough

5:08

that it got me to switch my job

5:08

to podcasting. And the big tech

5:12

companies start noticing, oh,

5:12

there's this cool new thing. And

5:16

by then stuff like YouTube have

5:16

already tried to like steak out

5:20

video. And you've got social

5:20

media trying to take over all of

5:25

the different like writing

5:25

platforms. You know, we used to

5:27

have lots of blogs. But

5:27

eventually, we saw social media

5:31

was able to kind of steal a lot

5:31

of the writing away. I think a

5:33

bunch of big tech companies go,

5:33

Whoa, this whole podcasting

5:37

thing, pretty much apple is like

5:37

the biggest player by a mile,

5:41

and they're not trying to steal

5:41

it. So why don't we try to grab

5:44

it. And so we see a bunch of

5:44

players are moving in being very

5:48

aggressive, saying, let's get

5:48

everything on our platform. And

5:51

very quickly, what were we stuck

5:51

with is this world that we're at

5:55

now, where most of podcasting

5:55

still open. Most of it works

5:59

with any player, any host any

5:59

podcast, any listener. But now

6:03

there's pockets these individual

6:03

fiefdoms where it's like Spotify

6:06

has got their exclusives, and

6:06

Amazon has exclusives. And

6:10

there's some shows that will

6:10

work sometimes, but they won't

6:13

work here. And it's getting

6:13

fractured up. And it's becoming

6:16

a battleground. And we're looked

6:16

certain look more like streaming

6:18

services where you're

6:18

subscribing like 15 of them,

6:21

then we're looking like

6:21

websites. And that's what's at

6:24

stake. And so this is gonna mean

6:24

lots of different companies,

6:27

lots of competitors coming

6:27

together to say, Okay, here's

6:31

what we have in common. Let's

6:31

make sure this stays in common,

6:34

rather than us all turning into

6:34

battling each other, while the

6:38

TIC TOCs. And the YouTubes of

6:38

the world continue to get even

6:41

more mindshare.

6:42

And that's what's so

6:42

cool about it, too, is like just

6:45

seeing all these different companies and all these competitors coming together in

6:47

like having one cohesive mission

6:51

is very cool.

6:53

Yeah, I like that analogy

6:53

to the web browser. Because I

6:56

think it's very similar. Like

6:56

with HTML5, a bunch of people

7:01

building for the web came

7:01

together and said, We need to

7:04

standardize a set of technology

7:04

that works for the web. So

7:06

regardless of which web browser

7:06

you use, a website can be

7:10

displayed, and the information

7:10

can be consumed consistently.

7:14

And that was super helpful for

7:14

the web. This is this goes a

7:17

long ways back. But if you

7:17

remember, in the early 2000s,

7:20

web browsers were becoming

7:20

largely incompatible instead of

7:23

very compatible. And so people

7:23

realize this, who were working

7:27

in the industries at the time,

7:27

and said, Hey, for the greater

7:29

good of the internet, we need to

7:29

come up with some baseline

7:31

standards. Now, it doesn't mean

7:31

that you can't innovate on top

7:34

of this. And we've seen this

7:34

very recently, like in the past

7:36

couple years. So web browser

7:36

support now is really great,

7:41

regardless of whether you're

7:41

using Safari, or Chrome, or

7:44

Edge, or Firefox, or even some

7:44

of these new emerging browsers.

7:48

So web browsers got together,

7:48

where browser makers and people

7:51

who are building the internet come together, they decide on a set of standards, they formalize

7:53

it, and to a living standard,

7:56

which is now HTML5. And from

7:56

there like we can, like I'm

8:00

going to use the shopping

8:00

experience as a baseline web

8:03

browser experience, right? So

8:03

like any website that you land

8:07

on now, regardless of the

8:07

browser you use, you're going to

8:09

be able to make a transaction

8:09

you're going to make a purchase.

8:12

So they standardize on things

8:12

like what is the secure browser

8:15

protocol that we can use, like,

8:15

and they came up with secure

8:17

socket layers? And how is that

8:17

going to work in form fields

8:19

that all work consistently. So

8:19

if I land on a website, and I'm

8:22

in Chrome, I might just punch in

8:22

my credit card information and

8:25

buy whatever it is I'm looking

8:25

for. In Safari, I will have the

8:28

same form fields, but I might

8:28

also have a button for Apple

8:30

Pay. And Google answered that

8:30

like a year later with Google

8:34

Pay. And so now if you're in

8:34

Chrome, you have Google's

8:36

checkout experience as well.

8:36

That's like an enhancement on

8:39

top of the standard. So Apple

8:39

says, Hey, we want to offer

8:43

Apple Pay to everybody who comes

8:43

in our browser to a website that

8:46

supports our payment method. And

8:46

you can build above and beyond

8:49

the standard. But you also have

8:49

the ability to always fall back

8:52

to the standard. So the websites

8:52

never broken. It can just be

8:55

like progressive enhancement.

8:55

The Podcast Standards Project is

8:59

not pushing for like slowing

8:59

down innovation or saying that

9:02

you shouldn't do experimental

9:02

features on top, or not even

9:04

like when I've been saying that you can't have proprietary stuff. Like if Spotify wants to

9:06

do their own experience in

9:09

podcasting, in their app with

9:09

their own proprietary

9:12

technology. That's great. All

9:12

we're saying is please also

9:15

support the standards first

9:15

before investing in proprietary

9:19

stuff. And so it's really worked

9:19

well for the web. We hope it can

9:22

also work well for podcasting,

9:22

and long term. There's this goal

9:26

of preserving open podcasting.

9:26

Because regardless of where you

9:29

want to listen or where you want

9:29

to publish, if the tools are

9:32

following the standard, you know

9:32

that they're going to have some

9:34

sort of consistency in their

9:34

experience.

9:36

Yeah, another example of

9:36

the layer on top inside of an

9:40

app that adds another cool

9:40

experience, I think, would be

9:43

like Apple Podcasts

9:43

subscriptions. Apple Podcasts,

9:47

like already supports everything

9:47

in the podcast Standards

9:50

Project, because they've always

9:50

been very friendly with like the

9:53

open ecosystem and been big

9:53

supporters of it. And then they

9:56

say, you know, there's this

9:56

really cool thing that would

9:58

work really well inside At our

9:58

app, and it aligns with our

10:01

business models, and it can help

10:01

creators. So we're doing these

10:04

subscriptions. And that's a cool

10:04

layer on top, and it works

10:08

really well, because everything

10:08

else still works, you can still

10:13

add a podcast feed, just by

10:13

having the RSS feed, you can

10:16

still click links and show

10:16

notes. There's all these things

10:20

that we would consider table

10:20

stakes. But every once in a

10:23

while you have new apps are

10:23

like, oh, you can't have you

10:26

can't add a feed just because

10:26

you know, the RSS feed, it has

10:29

to be inside of our directory,

10:29

we won't let you add one

10:32

outside, there's sometimes we'll

10:32

see apps that are like no links

10:36

outside. And it breaks the

10:36

experience, not just for the

10:40

creators who feel this pain. But

10:40

for the listeners who are now

10:44

like, why the heck am I hearing

10:44

go click the link in the show

10:48

notes. And they forgot to put

10:48

the link in there, I don't see a

10:51

link, I see the word but no

10:51

link. That's the experience that

10:54

I used to have in the early

10:54

2000s. On the web, you would be

10:57

on a website and it would say

10:57

something about like a video or

11:01

an audio file or some images.

11:01

And they were not there. Or it

11:05

would be broken images. And you

11:05

just be like this is a bad

11:08

developer. And then you start to

11:08

wake up to oh, I'm using some

11:12

new browser, I'm using Netscape.

11:12

And they built this to work on

11:18

Internet Explorer. And the web

11:18

should not work that way. And

11:21

the web solve this, the

11:21

podcasting industry should not

11:25

work that way. And this is the

11:25

attempt to have lots of

11:28

companies come together and say,

11:28

Alright, let's make sure that

11:31

everything still has this shared

11:31

base, so that we can all

11:34

innovate in cool ways on top of

11:34

that.

11:36

Yeah, you've got some

11:36

really great ideas there. And

11:39

like, as you're sharing them,

11:39

I'm like trying to take notes.

11:42

I'm trying to do a podcast at the same time. But I'm trying to take notes, like some of your

11:43

ideas that we should we need to

11:46

be doing stuff like this. So our

11:46

initial proposal is called, it's

11:49

like a .9 proposal right now,

11:49

for a podcast standard. We

11:52

didn't want to launch with a

11:52

1.0, like we want to have input

11:56

from the community before we go

11:56

ahead and get to a place where

11:59

we can finalize it and say,

11:59

Okay, this is the spec now. And

12:02

then like maybe on a yearly

12:02

basis, we increment or something

12:04

like that, we'll figure all that

12:04

out in the open. We didn't want

12:06

to do any of that, while the

12:06

group was still closed off. But

12:08

you mentioned some really good

12:08

things like how apps are

12:10

interpreting episode

12:10

descriptions or show notes like

12:13

that should be something that we

12:13

tackle. So right now, the spec

12:15

says something like you can use

12:15

HTML in your show notes. And

12:19

here's the tags that should be

12:19

supported. But we don't go like

12:22

any further than that right now.

12:22

So I think it'd be a great

12:25

discussion to have in the group.

12:25

Like if you're building a

12:27

podcast app, and somebody puts

12:27

in an HTML link is the

12:30

expectation is the standard set

12:30

that this is how you display

12:32

that link, versus just typing

12:32

out a URL. And that's how we

12:35

have to do it. That's exactly

12:35

the thing that we're talking

12:37

about people who are podcasting

12:37

all the time, they're just like,

12:39

just tell me how to format my

12:39

link. I just want someone to be

12:41

able to click on something and I

12:41

get a different experience in

12:44

every app. Is there something

12:44

that I can do that would work in

12:46

all apps? Well, there's not

12:46

right now. And so formalizing

12:50

stuff like that, and having discussions around that, and coming to an agreement, and then

12:52

having everybody kind of update

12:54

their code to work like that at

12:54

a base level, again, progressive

12:57

enhancement aside, like, we're

12:57

not saying you can't do

12:59

progressively enhance it, make it better, you got a better idea and make it better. But at a

13:01

minimum support, this is what

13:04

we're trying to accomplish.

13:37

So if one of our

13:37

listeners, you know, has a lot

13:40

of really great ideas for this,

13:40

how would they get involved with

13:44

the podcast standards project to

13:44

get their opinions moved

13:48

forward?

13:48

Yeah, it's super simple.

13:48

So go to podstandards.org, you

13:52

can read about the project. And

13:52

there are links over to the

13:54

GitHub. So GitHub is where the

13:54

work takes place. And that can

13:57

feel a little intimidating for

13:57

somebody who hasn't like they're

14:00

not in technology themselves.

14:00

They don't write code, they

14:02

don't ever want to look at, you

14:02

know, the guts behind an RSS

14:05

feed. But you don't have to

14:05

write code to participate, you

14:09

can just write words, you can

14:09

just say, hey, here's a problem

14:12

that I'm experiencing. If

14:12

somebody with some technical

14:15

knowledge can help figure out

14:15

how to solve that problem, it

14:18

would be helpful to podcasters.

14:18

So you can just click on a

14:20

button says open an issue. And

14:20

you can just describe the issue

14:23

that you see in podcasting, in

14:23

your own words. And then

14:25

hopefully, we'll have a

14:25

community come in behind that

14:28

who are technical implementers

14:28

and say, Oh, this can actually

14:31

be solved with code like this,

14:31

or like this, or here's a

14:33

different technical solution.

14:33

And you can follow along you

14:35

participate, whether you're a coder or not.

14:37

That's great.

14:38

This is a very cool

14:38

initiative to have seen a little

14:41

bit behind the scenes, Kevin,

14:41

because I know you've been

14:44

involved, along with a ton of

14:44

people, I have not been, but

14:48

I've kind of seen the amount of

14:48

time that you've been working on

14:52

it and working on the website

14:52

and working on the spec. And so

14:57

it's very cool to kind of see it

14:57

finally come into, you know, out

15:00

into the open and get shared

15:00

with everyone think it's really

15:03

needed. Because the web still

15:03

right now has three open

15:08

protocols that are used any

15:08

level, it's got the email, we

15:13

have web, so the for websites,

15:13

and podcasting. And there, this

15:17

was the promise of the internet

15:17

a long time ago, and that

15:21

promise has kind of gone away,

15:21

but we still got three areas

15:24

left. And so I love that this is

15:24

a organization coming around and

15:29

saying okay, let's keep this

15:29

open. Like let's not just give

15:32

this over to the big companies,

15:32

let's instead fight for things

15:36

to be open and free so that

15:36

people can express themselves

15:40

how they wish.

15:41

Yeah, I agree. It is a

15:41

battle worth fighting. When you

15:44

say podcasting that the really

15:44

the backbone of that is the RSS

15:47

spec, which still exists a

15:47

little bit in the world of

15:50

blogging and like website

15:50

publishing with a blog and

15:53

distributing that via RSS, and

15:53

that's, that's the same

15:56

technology that podcasting was

15:56

built on top of so with RSS to

15:59

Dotto, the enclosure tag

15:59

includes your element and try to

16:02

use the correct terminology that

16:02

can enclose your element was

16:05

added. And that allows you to

16:05

associate a media file with an

16:09

item in your RSS feed. And

16:09

that's where podcasting came

16:12

from. So it's important to

16:12

remember that we're talking

16:17

about standards. And sometimes

16:17

there's a little bit of angst

16:23

that builds up in people about

16:23

like, well, I don't want anybody

16:25

telling me what I can and can't

16:25

do like it's the internet, I

16:28

want to build my tool my way and

16:28

yada yada yada. But like

16:31

podcasting was built on

16:31

standards, RSS two dot o itself

16:36

is a standard. It is a

16:36

massively. It's a genius

16:40

standard, because like the best

16:40

standards in the world are super

16:42

flexible. And they don't do any

16:42

more than they absolutely have

16:46

to and RSS to odo kind of

16:46

encapsulates that mentality that

16:51

that vision of a really great

16:51

standard, it's very minimal. And

16:54

then it allows extendibility

16:54

beyond the standard itself. So

16:58

when David want to release it,

16:58

he said it is done, it is

17:01

closed, you cannot just will not

17:01

be modified or changed. And

17:05

it'll live as long as it lives.

17:05

And we've seen that as lived a

17:07

very long life and like still

17:07

going strong, because it was so

17:11

beautifully simple. And it has

17:11

this ability to be extended. And

17:16

then so there's some great

17:16

projects that have extended it.

17:19

And the spec proposal as it

17:19

exists today is using some of

17:24

those extensions. So the first

17:24

one that we use is the iTunes

17:28

namespace extension for

17:28

podcasting, which kind of became

17:31

a de facto standard, like Apple

17:31

never called to the standard.

17:35

But they just said, Hey, if you

17:35

want to get listed in iTunes,

17:37

here's the extension that you're

17:37

using, here's what all those

17:39

elements do. And people

17:39

basically took that as a

17:42

standard, because everyone

17:42

wanted to be in iTunes. And so

17:46

we use a lot of elements from

17:46

that still, Apple continues to

17:50

slowly kind of modify that over

17:50

time as their as their apps

17:54

change. But the standard, the

17:54

iTunes namespace still exists,

17:58

and it still called iTunes

17:58

namespace, funnily enough. The

18:01

other one that we use is the

18:01

podcast namespace. And this one

18:03

is the opposite. This one's like

18:03

very innovative, it's changing

18:06

all the time. They're adding new

18:06

elements all the time. And so

18:11

like, if you want a bunch of

18:11

experimental features, that's a

18:13

great namespace to play with.

18:13

And then there's two others that

18:16

just do very basic things. One

18:16

is the Adam namespace, which

18:18

just gives you kind of a

18:18

permalink for your RSS feed. And

18:23

so that's the only element from

18:23

that namespace that we that we

18:25

use. And the other one is, I

18:25

can't remember the name of it.

18:29

It's kind of a funky name, but

18:29

it allows you to basically put

18:31

HTML in your show notes. And so

18:31

we use that just to accomplish

18:34

that one thing. So there are a

18:34

lot of standards that are used

18:39

in podcasting. But there's not

18:39

like anybody saying, Hey, we use

18:42

all these different things from all these places all over the internet to create a podcast

18:44

feed. Is there one place on the

18:47

internet, I can go and just learn how to create a standard podcast feed? Well, this project

18:49

aims to solve that as well. So

18:53

like somebody coming on the

18:53

scene saying, Oh, I have an idea

18:55

for this technology I want to build and it involves podcasting. Where's the one

18:57

source I can go to on the

18:59

internet to find out how to

18:59

build a standard podcast feed?

19:02

This is it, it never existed

19:02

before you had to go to all

19:04

these different places and pieced together all this information and try to figure

19:06

out like, which way is the wind

19:08

blowing right now in podcasting?

19:08

Well, now you have one place to

19:12

be able to answer those questions.

19:13

All right, I've got a new

19:13

analogy off the cuff, this might

19:17

get cut. I'm trying to think of

19:17

areas that are in our lives

19:22

where a standard actually allows

19:22

for more flexibility, and more

19:27

innovation. And the one that

19:27

popped in my brain is like

19:30

shirts. I know if I go online,

19:30

and I'm looking for a shirt, if

19:34

it says L that probably stands

19:34

for large, and that's likely

19:38

going to fit me because we have

19:38

a relative standard, especially

19:42

for men sizes that like these

19:42

sizes correlate with these body

19:46

proportions. But it doesn't

19:46

indicate like what's on the

19:49

shirt, what type of shirt if

19:49

it's a t shirt, or it's a button

19:52

down or it's got an image, all

19:52

that is still open for total

19:56

creativity by the people making

19:56

the shirt. But there are some

20:00

things that it can share some

20:00

information. Now I know how to

20:03

interact with it, instead of

20:03

going online and buying six

20:07

shirts and sending most of them

20:07

back because I have no idea that

20:10

your large has like giant arm

20:10

holes or something. Right? Is

20:14

this ending up getting cut, Jordan? I'm seeing-

20:17

Oh absolutely.

20:19

It's not it's not a

20:19

terrible analogy.

20:22

No, it's not terrible,

20:22

unless you're a woman in which

20:24

there's absolutely no standard

20:24

to the sizing.

20:28

I thought about halfway

20:28

through because that's my wife's

20:30

experience of shopping online.

20:30

There's not a standard for

20:33

women's sizes.

20:34

Nothing fits.

20:35

Yeah, so the t shirt

20:35

analogy, I think there's some

20:38

validity to it. Let me see. Let

20:38

me let me throw out my own

20:40

analogy and see if it works

20:40

better. And mine is in the

20:43

technology space. Well, let's

20:43

talk about email. So email,

20:46

there has been a standard that's

20:46

been around for years and years

20:48

and years, I really have no idea

20:48

how old the email spec is, when

20:51

I talked, when we talked about

20:51

email protocols, we're mostly

20:53

talking about IMAP, which is

20:53

pretty much what runs Internet

20:56

Mail. Nowadays, there was

20:56

another one called Pop three,

20:59

but they were they were

20:59

compatible, very similar

21:01

technologies. And most email

21:01

transfers on both of these two

21:04

protocols. But for for years and

21:04

years, when email came out, it

21:08

always looks the same whether

21:08

you're in Outlook, or Yahoo, or

21:12

whatever. Well, about 20 years

21:12

ago, Google said, We're gonna

21:16

launch an email client, we're gonna do things a little bit differently. And they organized

21:17

your email differently. They

21:20

organized it by threads. And

21:20

they said, instead of creating

21:22

folders and putting things in

21:22

folders, you can just tag stuff

21:24

and just archive it. And if you

21:24

want to dig it up, again, your

21:26

primary way to do that is going

21:26

to be search. This is all

21:28

proprietary technology that was

21:28

built off of the same standard

21:31

protocol. Since then, in recent

21:31

years, we've seen more

21:34

innovation happening email, like

21:34

now another company came along,

21:37

called superhuman, and they

21:37

decided to innovate on top of

21:41

people with Gmail addresses, but

21:41

they're just using that same

21:43

protocol in the background.

21:43

They're saying, we don't

21:45

actually have to serve the

21:45

email, let Google do that. But

21:48

we can improve upon Google's

21:48

interface around it. So we're

21:51

leveraging a protocol that's

21:51

being delivered by another

21:54

company. And we provide our own

21:54

UI, again, all innovation that's

21:58

happening on top of a standard

21:58

protocol. And then just even

22:01

more recently than superhuman,

22:01

you have Basecamp, which is now

22:04

called 37 Signals, that the

22:04

company behind Hey, they

22:06

launched their own email

22:06

product. And they say we're

22:08

gonna thread messages as well.

22:08

But we have some new ideas

22:10

around the interface, and we're going to strain stuff out, we're not going to let people into

22:12

your inbox by default, you have

22:14

to get give them permission to

22:14

land in your inbox. Like, again,

22:18

a more innovation that's

22:18

happening upon layers of a

22:21

standard protocol. And that's

22:21

the same thing that can happen

22:24

in podcasting. But we don't have

22:24

to change the original protocols

22:28

like RSS is great. The

22:28

extensions and the namespaces

22:31

that are built on top of them

22:31

are great. So the podcast

22:34

standards project, we're not going to come out and say, Hey, we need a new namespace, it's

22:36

going to be the new podcast

22:38

standards namespace know, there

22:38

are great namespaces that exist,

22:42

all we're doing is trying to

22:42

figure out the best of all of

22:44

them, and putting them together

22:44

and saying, Hey, if you're gonna

22:47

build technology in the space,

22:47

let's all agree to support these

22:50

things as table stakes, and then

22:50

innovate on top of that, and

22:53

create great experiences on both

22:53

sides for the podcast or for the

22:56

listeners, for advertisers for

22:56

whatever, but like, we need some

23:01

set of ground rules to be able

23:01

to all work from so that what we

23:04

build works for a lot of people.

23:06

I think that going

23:06

forward, Jordan, we should have

23:08

an ongoing segment of Kevin and

23:08

I try to think of different

23:12

areas where there's I've got

23:12

some other words, to take out

23:17

this whole podcast.

23:18

The analogy wars, yeah,

23:19

this episode is gonna be

23:19

the analogy smackdown.

23:26

Of all these cool things

23:26

that are at least this

23:29

consolidation that's happening

23:29

with PSP, and then some radical

23:34

new ideas with the podcast to

23:34

Dotto, one of the cool new

23:38

things that's come out of there

23:38

was some of the stuff we did

23:40

with this new cycle, the

23:40

podcast, TX T tag,

23:43

okay, I mean, so the way

23:43

that we implemented it within

23:45

Buzzsprout, is that you're never

23:45

going to see something in the

23:48

Buzzsprout interface that says

23:48

podcast-colon-txt, like that's

23:52

code. And so we don't think that

23:52

podcasters need to be exposed to

23:57

the code that lives in the RSS

23:57

feed. That's the job of

23:59

Buzzsprout to make that stuff

23:59

simple. But the main use case

24:02

right now for this new element,

24:02

again, created from the podcast

24:06

namespace project, which is part

24:06

of podcasting, to Dotto is to be

24:10

able to offer a better way to

24:10

verify feed ownership. That's

24:14

the main use case. There are

24:14

other potential use cases for

24:17

it. But right now, that's the

24:17

main one. So that's the, we

24:20

built an interface around the

24:20

main use case. And so if you

24:24

remember, it's been about three

24:24

or four months ago, maybe five,

24:27

I'm not gonna be time, but we

24:27

pulled email addresses out of

24:29

RSS feeds. The main reason that

24:29

email addresses were in RSS

24:33

feeds is it gave an easy way to

24:33

verify the ownership of that RSS

24:37

feed. So if you went to try to

24:37

claim your feed, on some

24:40

directory, they might say,

24:40

Great, we just shot an email to

24:43

the email address that was in

24:43

the feed, you got to click a

24:45

link in that email. And then

24:45

when though it's you. When we

24:48

pull the email addresses out,

24:48

now, they don't have a way to

24:51

verify. And so this has been a

24:51

solution. We also had our own

24:55

solution, which was we'll just

24:55

put your email address back in

24:57

your feed for a short period of

24:57

time so that you can get the

25:00

email and verify it. But as more

25:00

and more companies are starting

25:03

to catch up with this idea that

25:03

this is a good thing to get

25:06

email addresses out the podcast

25:06

namespace project has come up

25:09

with a solution that says we

25:09

don't actually have to put email

25:12

addresses back and fees not even

25:12

for 24 or 48 hours, we can just

25:15

put this other element in so

25:15

that you can drop a verification

25:18

code in your feed and that's the

25:18

way for them to verify that you

25:21

own it without ever having to

25:21

expose your email address to all

25:24

the bots that are out there

25:24

scanning for them. And so we

25:28

incorporated it into Buzzsprout

25:28

into the feed ownership there.

25:32

application workflow. So where

25:32

you used to go and be able to

25:36

turn your email address on for

25:36

48 hours. Now you can, instead

25:38

of typing an email address in that field, you can type anything you want. It can be a

25:40

verification code, it can be

25:44

copyright information, it can be

25:44

an email address, whatever it

25:47

is, if it's an email address, we

25:47

recognize that it's an email

25:50

address, we put it in the email

25:50

field. If it's something else,

25:52

like a verification code or a

25:52

token, we recognize that's not

25:55

an email address, it must be something else. So we drop it into the podcast colon text tag.

25:59

Wow. So you could just

25:59

like make up your own thing,

26:02

like if you have a podcast safe

26:02

word in essence, like, you could

26:06

just put that in there. And then

26:06

like, have the podcast platforms

26:11

verify with that word. Right?

26:13

Right. So like one of the

26:13

use cases that exists today is

26:15

that you have to have an Apple

26:15

ID to list your podcasts on

26:18

Apple podcasts. So you sign in

26:18

with your Apple ID and you list

26:21

I'm gonna start in an analogy

26:21

jar, you guys are gonna have to

26:21

your podcasts. Now that podcast

26:21

is associated with your Apple

26:24

ID. So Apple knows who you are

26:24

they verified that you own that

26:27

feed. But let's say I'm going to

26:27

be off the show and it's on my

26:30

Apple ID I want to give it to

26:30

Jordan. Well, Jordan says, Great

26:33

transfer it to my Apple ID, I'll

26:33

take it over. How do you do

26:35

that? Well, the way that Apple

26:35

wants you to do that right now

26:38

is they want you to put a code

26:38

in your RSS feed. So they're

26:41

gonna send you an email, it

26:41

says, We understand you want to

26:44

transfer ownership to a

26:44

different Apple ID, we need you

26:46

to put this whatever 12 digit

26:46

code in your RSS feed somewhere,

26:49

once we see it, we'll know that

26:49

you've authorized this transfer.

26:52

And so you can add that

26:52

anywhere, you can add it to your

26:55

show notes, you could add it

26:55

wherever they just have to find

26:58

it. But like who wants to put

26:58

that in your show note of an

27:01

episode, it's a weird string of

27:01

characters at the end, like

27:03

randomly. And so a lot of people

27:03

just added it to the copyright

27:06

field there, like nobody notices

27:06

that there or whatever. But like

27:09

now we have a place to put it.

27:09

So you could just log in here

27:12

Buzzsprout account, you could go

27:12

put it into the verification

27:15

field, which then we throw in

27:15

the podcast X tag, Apple sees

27:18

it, they transfer ownership, and

27:18

then you go and you take it out,

27:21

it's a much cleaner, nicer way

27:21

to do it, it doesn't disrupt

27:24

anything, and there's a place

27:24

for it. Now there wasn't before,

27:26

it's kind of like how many times

27:26

you lose your keys, your car

27:29

keys, like until you had to

27:29

place the keys go there, you

27:32

know where they are. It's this

27:32

cleaner. So throwing your keys

27:35

on the counter, put it in the

27:35

textfield. That's my analogy.

27:40

put five bucks in it. Terrible analogy.

27:44

So another thing that we

27:44

added this work cycle is dynamic

27:49

content mid rolls.

27:52

This is a long time

27:52

coming. So we first launched

27:57

dynamic content to just be

27:57

content that was at the

27:59

beginning in the end of your

27:59

episode. And so now you can

28:03

upload content and upload some

28:03

audio and say I want to put this

28:07

in my episode, you put it at the

28:07

front, you put it the back, but

28:09

now you can put it into the

28:09

center. And the problem with

28:13

like just dropping things into

28:13

the center of episodes is things

28:17

have to naturally fit, you have

28:17

to find good spots to actually

28:20

put minerals in. And part of

28:20

what we developed with

28:24

Buzzsprout ads was a smart

28:24

insertion point finder, where we

28:28

would find spots that were a

28:28

natural break of the

28:30

conversation. And we'd say

28:30

that's a good spot for something

28:33

to be dropped in. We added like

28:33

a nice transition around it to

28:36

help orient listeners. So they

28:36

would know there's something

28:40

different here, this is an ad,

28:40

or it could be a piece of

28:43

dynamic content. And so we've

28:43

leveraged all of that work that

28:47

we built to now make it so you

28:47

can upload content yourself, and

28:52

it'd be inserted into the middle

28:52

of all of your episodes. And

28:56

obviously, like appropriate

28:56

spots, and then you can go and

28:58

check them out. So this is

28:58

something people have been

29:01

asking for since about 20

29:01

minutes after we launched

29:04

dynamic content. And it's

29:04

exciting to be able to go back

29:08

and reply to all those emails

29:08

and try to go find old Facebook

29:12

conversations and say, Hey, this

29:12

thing you were asking for, it's

29:16

out there, and you can use it.

29:18

Yeah, it's very cool

29:18

technology. And there's a lot of

29:21

technology that lives behind a

29:21

really beautifully simple UI. So

29:25

it's not any harder to add

29:25

content as a mid roll now in

29:30

Buzzsprout, than it is to add it

29:30

as a pre roll or post roll. And

29:33

that was that was a big thing

29:33

that was really important to us.

29:35

And we're developing this

29:35

feature is that we don't want

29:37

all of our podcasters to have to

29:37

go back through all of their

29:39

entire back catalogue and add

29:39

insertion points, like I want it

29:42

here and here and here in this

29:42

episode and here and here. And

29:45

that's very time consuming. You

29:45

add extra energy and effort

29:48

every time you publish an episode, then you'd have to do that this technology allows you

29:50

to not have to worry about that

29:53

you will automatically get

29:53

insertion points at natural

29:56

breaks in the conversation

29:56

without you having to do any

29:58

additional work. And now being

29:58

able to do dynamic content in

30:02

the middle position allows you

30:02

to do your own ads. So

30:04

Buzzsprout ads is a really great

30:04

opportunity. It's a solution for

30:08

people who have podcasts that

30:08

match with a bunch of ads, but

30:11

not every podcast does. So we do

30:11

have ads that are constantly

30:15

flowing into the Buzzsprout ads

30:15

marketplace. And a lot of our

30:19

podcasters are seeing good

30:19

opportunities consistently. A

30:22

lot of our podcasters are not

30:22

and that's just dependent on the

30:25

type of content that you

30:25

produce. And so if you have a

30:28

the more niche your podcast, the

30:28

less opportunities you're going

30:30

to have. It doesn't mean that

30:30

You don't have an opportunity to

30:33

monetize, it just might mean

30:33

that a lot of people are coming

30:35

into our marketplace. They're

30:35

not targeting podcasts exactly

30:38

like yours, nothing that you

30:38

should change on your content

30:40

side. Like if you're, you're

30:40

passionate about this content

30:43

and you have an audience, but

30:43

you might just have to sell your

30:46

own ads for now until the

30:46

Buzzsprout marketplace starts

30:48

growing in popularity, and you start getting more opportunities. So in that time

30:50

between now and then you might

30:54

have opportunities to sell your

30:54

own ads. And if you do, now, you

30:56

can drop them in as mid rolls, they don't have to live in the pre or post roll position, which

30:58

we know are usually lower value

31:02

spots. So pre roll ads get

31:02

skipped often post roll ads,

31:06

sometimes people cut off and

31:06

don't listen to, but mid rolls

31:09

have the highest rate of the

31:09

highest level of efficacy

31:12

because they're in the middle of

31:12

an episode. And so if you're

31:14

driving in your car, the phones

31:14

in the pocket and an ad comes

31:16

on, you hope it's relevant. So

31:16

you help people listen to it.

31:19

But it also helps the phones

31:19

kind of away

31:21

You also hope they listen

31:21

to because they're driving.

31:23

I don't want them messign

31:23

with their phones while they're

31:26

driving. So hopefully, they're

31:26

not skipping over midrolls

31:28

nearly as much as they might in

31:28

the pre or post position.

31:31

So podcasters can upload

31:31

up to three midrolls at this

31:35

point, right?

31:36

Yep, we stopped at three,

31:36

like there's a right number

31:39

there somewhere. We don't know if it's going to be three forever. But we started with

31:41

three, we'll see if people say

31:43

no, I really maybe five or three

31:43

is fine. I don't know. But at a

31:48

certain point, it starts to

31:48

become a little bit like kind of

31:51

overwhelming. And like how many

31:51

episodes are going to be long

31:53

enough to get more than three.

31:53

So we felt like that was a safe

31:56

place to start. But just like

31:56

everything, like we put our best

31:58

ideas out there. And then we

31:58

listen to what our customers

32:01

say, and then make adjustments as needed.

32:03

Well, what's the

32:03

duration of the midroll that you

32:06

can record?

32:07

It can be I think that

32:07

can be up to five minutes. That

32:09

can be super, like longer than

32:09

you ever need them to be.

32:12

Yeah, I mean, so you

32:12

could record your own, like host

32:15

read ads and put a couple back

32:15

to back and insert that as one.

32:19

You can't?

32:20

You can do that.

32:22

Oh, I see what you're saying. I seriously. Look at Jordan with the hacks.

32:25

Thank you. You're

32:25

shaking your head No, I was

32:27

like, What? That's smart.

32:29

You're right.

32:30

Yeah, I mean, that can

32:30

work. It's got a couple of

32:32

downsides. One, that's just not

32:32

a great experience for

32:36

listeners. I mean, how many

32:36

times have you listened to

32:38

podcasts and you're excited

32:38

about 30 seconds to a minute of

32:42

one ad. But then once you get to

32:42

add two, then three, then four,

32:46

you're like, Okay, give me a

32:46

break. Yeah, I started feeling

32:49

like I'm listening to a radio

32:49

show again. The other downside

32:53

is now those are all married

32:53

forever. You know, now it's

32:56

like, your HelloFresh ad, and

32:56

your MailChimp ad and your Blue

33:02

Apron, ad or whatever. They're

33:02

all stuck together. So as soon

33:05

as your Blue Apron contract is

33:05

done, you're like, Okay, we

33:07

served up the 20,000 downloads I

33:07

sold. Well, those other two ads

33:11

are still connected to it, it's

33:11

good point. So it makes it a bit

33:14

less dynamic. So I don't love

33:14

that hack, though. It's a

33:19

perfectly legitimate hack that

33:19

I'm sure now it's out there.

33:23

It's gonna happen.

33:25

People are gonna do it.

33:25

Yeah, I mean, I guess it could,

33:27

it could certainly work if you

33:27

sold whatever 10,000 downloads

34:01

to two different customers. And

34:01

your episodes are typically

34:04

short, so you're not going to be

34:04

able to get them like served up

34:08

at the same time, then you could

34:08

record them together as one

34:11

piece of audio. So you do your

34:11

whatever company ABC ad and then

34:16

you go into your company XYZ ad.

34:16

And they live as one ad group,

34:19

and you're giving them the same

34:19

number of downloads. Yeah, it

34:22

absolutely could work. Probably

34:22

not something we'd recommend.

34:25

But it's not something that you

34:25

can't do if you feel like it

34:27

works for you.

34:28

use

34:28

responsibly.

34:33

Kevin, you kind of

34:33

mentioned Buzzsprout ads. So

34:35

another thing we added are a

34:35

total new type of ads for

34:40

Buzzsprout ads. For a while

34:40

we've experimented and had brand

34:45

ads in beta. These are just

34:45

companies that can buy an ad

34:48

inside your podcast. So people

34:48

might have seen some of those.

34:52

Those were pretty rare because

34:52

that those were all manual and

34:56

like early stage beta. But now

34:56

that is out and available to

35:00

everybody. So now if a brand or

35:00

a company goes to

35:04

buzzsprout.com/ads, and signs

35:04

up, there's a whole workflow for

35:08

them to create, upload and

35:08

purchase ads inside of podcasts,

35:14

they can specify what type of

35:14

podcasts they are looking for,

35:17

so they can target the listeners

35:17

that they want. And it's a

35:21

really great way to add more ads

35:21

to the marketplace, but also

35:25

help small businesses start

35:25

testing podcasting ads in a easy

35:31

way.

35:32

Yeah. And part of this

35:32

project. When we launched it in

35:35

beta, we called them brand ads.

35:35

And as part of this project,

35:37

we'd learned some things and we

35:37

started calling them something

35:39

different. So now they're called

35:39

product ads. If you have ads

35:42

enabled for your podcast, you'll

35:42

see some ads are labeled podcast

35:46

and some ads are labeled

35:46

product. And so that can be a

35:48

product or a service or a brand

35:48

or whatever, but it's this

35:51

distinct category of an ad

35:51

that's not a podcast ad. So we

35:55

hope it solves a couple of problems. One, we're trying to get more advertisers into the

35:57

marketplace so podcasters have

35:59

more ad opportunities to Do some

35:59

podcasters didn't like the idea

36:03

of promoting other podcasts

36:03

within their podcast. And three,

36:07

we had a lot of contact and

36:07

interest from people who wanted

36:11

to advertise on podcasts. But

36:11

they didn't want to advertise on

36:13

other podcasts, they actually

36:13

had a product or service, so

36:15

solves all of those problems.

36:15

It's super exciting. So as Alban

36:18

said, hopefully, you'll start

36:18

logging in. And if you use

36:21

Buzzsprout ads, you'll see

36:21

opportunities for products. And

36:24

it works exactly the same as

36:24

podcasts that so you can accept

36:26

them if you'd like them if you

36:26

think they're a good fit. And if

36:29

you don't, you can decline them

36:29

and kind of tell us why. So

36:32

hopefully, that advertisers can

36:32

make adjustments, like if it's

36:34

audio quality, or something, or

36:34

if it's just not a good fit, no

36:37

problem at all, like, they don't

36:37

want to waste their money. If

36:40

you don't feel like as as a podcaster, you don't feel like it's good fit for your audience,

36:42

then don't feel bad about

36:44

marking it as not a good fit for

36:44

my podcast. And we'll get a

36:46

little bit smarter about matching you with more appropriate ads in the future.

36:49

That'd be really

36:49

exciting for people. We've had a

36:51

lot of podcasters in the

36:51

Facebook group, ask if they're

36:55

going to be brand ads in

36:55

Buzzsprout ads at any point. So

36:59

this is gonna be a really big

36:59

deal for them.

37:02

Yeah, I think there's a

37:02

lot of overlap between people

37:04

who are interested in

37:04

podcasting, and people who are

37:06

kind of like entrepreneurial,

37:06

who might like have a product or

37:08

service of their own, that they

37:08

want to promote a lot of

37:11

podcasters do books, a lot of

37:11

them do e courses, stuff like

37:13

that. And they might be

37:13

interested in trying a podcast

37:17

ad to promote their products,

37:17

instead of just promoting their

37:19

podcast that also promotes their product.

37:21

Yeah, one thing that's

37:21

different with the product ads

37:25

in Buzzsprout, are that it's

37:25

really self service, it's really

37:30

easy for you to buy an ad and

37:30

get it into podcasts. Without

37:34

all this like jumping through

37:34

hoops and meeting with like kind

37:38

of a pushy salesman, and you're

37:38

getting all this like stuff

37:41

about all the amazing things,

37:41

you happen to your business and

37:44

you do 15 meetings, and then you

37:44

do one ad, you know, it's we're

37:48

lowering all the investment you

37:48

have to put in, especially time

37:51

investment to get started with

37:51

ads. As someone who buys a lot

37:56

of advertisements. Sometimes

37:56

it's so painful to go through

38:00

all the meetings, that there's

38:00

just entire channels that we

38:04

have not invested in or we tried

38:04

once or twice, and even if

38:08

they're good, they have to be

38:08

really good because they take so

38:11

much time. And there's a big

38:11

difference between the way the

38:15

world used to be, which was like

38:15

running around on the web and

38:18

asking people to add you to a

38:18

blog post and you'd pay and you

38:22

put a banner ad up. Well, when

38:22

Google came along, it was like,

38:25

what if we do Google search ads,

38:25

or we do ad sets where we'll put

38:29

ads on people's sites for them?

38:29

Well, then it made it so much

38:34

easier for businesses to try

38:34

digital advertising. Rather than

38:38

going around and doing stuff

38:38

manually. I think ConvertKit has

38:42

tried this now for newsletters

38:42

rather than everybody running

38:45

around and doing one off

38:45

newsletter sponsorships, you can

38:48

sponsor with the marketplace.

38:48

And with Buzzsprout ads. Now,

38:52

you can just go ahead and you

38:52

can buy some ads, and you can

38:56

target some listeners, and you

38:56

can experiment as a company is

39:00

podcast advertising a place for

39:00

us, you can start to figure out

39:04

pretty quickly, yes, this works

39:04

or no, this isn't something I

39:07

want to invest in any more. So

39:07

that rather than every like

39:12

company meeting for the rest of

39:12

your life, where you talk about

39:15

marketing and ways to grow, you

39:15

don't have to keep saying

39:18

podcasting could work, we don't

39:18

know we've never tried it, we're

39:21

not going to really be like keep

39:21

putting it off, you can start to

39:24

figure that out pretty quickly.

39:24

So I'm excited as a marketer for

39:29

how much easier this is than a

39:29

lot of other options out there.

39:37

So last week, YouTube

39:37

tweeted, Podcasts are a go! So I

39:41

had to go on there and see if I

39:41

could get my podcast designated

39:46

as a podcast on YouTube. So

39:46

basically, the way that you do

39:49

this is you just on your YouTube

39:49

dashboard, you'll just click the

39:53

little link that takes you to

39:53

your YouTube studio. And they

39:56

have up at the top there's like

39:56

a little Create button. And when

40:00

you click that there is an

40:00

option in the drop down menu for

40:04

a new podcast. So you click new

40:04

podcast and then it pops up

40:07

saying you can create a new

40:07

podcast or you can set an

40:10

existing playlist as a podcast.

40:10

And what I found with YouTube is

40:13

that the podcasts are very like

40:13

playlist specific. So basically,

40:18

you could have several playlists

40:18

on your channel that could be

40:23

designated as different

40:23

podcasts. But something they're

40:26

kind of warning against is you

40:26

don't want to mix like video

40:29

clips in with full blown

40:29

episodes. They want to make sure

40:33

that it's very cohesive. So you

40:33

need to make sure that like if

40:35

you do designate a playlist as a

40:35

podcast, it needs to be like the

40:40

full podcast episodes not just

40:40

like intermingled with

40:44

everything else. And it was

40:44

actually really easy for me to

40:47

set up and I just added a few

40:47

videos and now I have a podcast

40:51

on YouTube is pretty quick and

40:51

easy. You know the thing about

40:55

it is that I don't think that

40:55

podcasts are necessarily a go on

40:59

YouTube. I think that it's still

40:59

just to Playlist but it's called

41:02

a podcast because there was no

41:02

RSS feed involved. It's still

41:08

not on YouTube music.

41:08

Apparently, they're going to be

41:11

working on that. But yeah, so

41:11

it's not quite a go. But it's

41:16

like a soft launch.

41:18

It maybe it's a go, it's

41:18

not a done. The playlist thing,

41:25

I actually really liked this way

41:25

of organizing podcasts on

41:29

YouTube, the idea is you have a

41:29

channel, and part of what's on

41:32

the channel is a podcast. And

41:32

they're like, Okay, we already

41:36

had these groups of items called

41:36

a playlist. And the way that

41:41

things work inside of YouTube is

41:41

you put all the episodes in a

41:44

playlist, and then you tag that

41:44

playlist as, hey, this is a

41:47

podcast, since its serial

41:47

content, often it's ongoing,

41:51

episodic content. I think that's

41:51

a good way of organizing it. I

41:57

do think that's a good point

41:57

from YouTube, like, hey, the

42:00

clips are different than the

42:00

full episodes. And so you got to

42:04

make sure you keep those

42:04

separate. Imagine how

42:06

frustrating would be if you went

42:06

to your podcast player, and you

42:09

flip it open, and you're trying

42:09

to listen to Buzzcast ad in

42:13

between every episode of

42:13

Buzzcast, we had like 4/32

42:18

snippets of the show that you

42:18

just listened to, it wouldn't

42:22

make a lot of sense for you to

42:22

get served all of that. And it's

42:24

a clean and easy way for YouTube

42:24

to say, Okay, you're interested

42:28

in full episodes. Those are all

42:28

in this spot. You are somebody

42:32

who doesn't listen to this show,

42:32

or you haven't listened to in a

42:34

while. Maybe you'd like some

42:34

shorts. shorts are a different

42:37

thing. And they go somewhere

42:37

else. So I think it's a good way

42:41

of organizing it.

42:42

I was going to ask you,

42:42

Alban, did you figure out? Well,

42:44

a couple things. Let me start by

42:44

saying I launched YouTube Music

42:47

last week, and I spent a little

42:47

bit of time trying to find

42:49

podcasts on there. I could not.

42:49

So seems like Jordan has

42:52

confirmed my theory that I guess

42:52

don't actually exist yet. And

42:55

YouTube Music I'll be excited to

42:55

hear when they do. But the

42:58

second part of my question Alban

42:58

is Have you seen when you log

43:01

into the studio, we have a bunch

43:01

of podcasts that it looks like

43:04

YouTube has just decided that

43:04

they are going to label as

43:07

podcasts. They've taken a few of

43:07

our playlists, and they've like

43:10

automatically assigned them the

43:10

power of the podcast

43:13

designation. And then we also

43:13

have Buzzcast now in their and

43:16

its own playlist, and it's also

43:16

labeled as a podcast, but it's

43:20

still set to private. So like

43:20

what's going on in your mind in

43:23

terms of what are they doing?

43:23

And when are you going to make

43:25

the Buzzcast podcast public?

43:26

Okay, so a few things.

43:26

First, I would say things that

43:30

are happening on the Buzzsprout

43:30

YouTube channel are not

43:34

reflective of what's happening

43:34

on podcasting as a whole on

43:37

YouTube. Part of that is just

43:37

because we been part of some

43:41

betas. And we've, you know, told

43:41

them, hey, we've got podcasts,

43:45

and we've got a YouTube channel.

43:45

We love all your stuff. So

43:48

anything that's new or

43:48

experimental, we want to try it.

43:52

And so that's some of what

43:52

you're seeing. We do have our

43:56

YouTube channel right now you

43:56

can go and see, we actually have

43:59

a couple of the Buzzcast

43:59

episodes live, I think we have

44:03

to like last two, and people can

44:03

go on there, and you can click

44:07

play, it's a slightly different

44:07

interface than video is just a

44:11

picture of our artwork, and then

44:11

you can listen to us chat. It's

44:16

not the optimal experience for

44:16

podcasting. Yet. You know,

44:20

YouTube, I think is still a

44:20

place people are going because

44:23

they want to watch video, and

44:23

we're not making video of

44:27

Buzzcast Right now, I don't see

44:27

that really changing either. So

44:32

I kind of mean, on one hand,

44:32

we're testing this out, because

44:35

we want to be teachers of this.

44:35

On the other. I have been

44:39

somebody who's over and over and

44:39

over, you could quote me 50

44:41

times on this podcast saying

44:41

like, Hey, if you're gonna be on

44:44

YouTube, like make a freaking

44:44

video, so I appreciate that we

44:47

don't have videos. The results

44:47

are, you know, mixed. Because a

44:53

lot of the people who watch our

44:53

channel are watching our channel

44:56

because they're trying to learn

44:56

about podcasting, and they want

44:59

to watch something, and all of a

44:59

sudden, this is not a video

45:02

experience. So the viewership

45:02

has been lower one has 272

45:08

views, so it's not zero. But the

45:08

videos around that are you know,

45:13

4000 views, 3000 views, 1000

45:13

views 2000 views so it's a much

45:19

smaller amount but we are

45:19

experimenting with it.

45:22

Have you been able to talk with anyone at YouTube to find out if since these new like

45:24

they're audio only but they're

45:28

listed as videos? Is that

45:28

hurting our ranking in YouTube

45:32

like on our channel Overall,

45:33

these that are being

45:33

pulled in? Those are in a

45:36

playlist that have designated as

45:36

a podcast. So the algorithms I

45:42

believe, I do not know this for

45:42

sure. I know this for sure was

45:45

shorts, like they have separate

45:45

algorithms for short content and

45:49

video content. So mixing those

45:49

together and YouTube. YouTube is

45:53

totally good at figuring out

45:53

what your which and my guess I

45:57

don't know this for sure is that

45:57

by putting everything in a

46:00

playlist Just marking that as

46:00

podcasts that's being served up

46:04

on the podcast tab, that will

46:04

likely end up inside of YouTube

46:09

music. By doing that, there's

46:09

probably I'm guessing a

46:13

different algorithm that's being

46:13

used to surface that content, it

46:18

would definitely be a bummer if

46:18

the thing I was always worried

46:21

about and I'd seen happen on

46:21

other people's channels happened

46:23

to us. That is, you build a long

46:23

time building a channel of high

46:28

quality video content. And then

46:28

you start uploading static

46:30

images with talking. And people

46:30

go, man, this whole channel kind

46:34

of stinks now, and then they

46:34

move on. We saw this happen so

46:37

many times on other channels,

46:37

all of a sudden, the viewership

46:41

dropped off a cliff for

46:41

everything, because YouTube was

46:44

getting a pretty clear signal,

46:44

hey, this channel doesn't put

46:47

out good videos anymore. And so

46:47

I'm guessing with at least some

46:51

hopes that I mean, some hope

46:51

some guests some thinking it's

46:54

true that YouTube is being

46:54

smarter about it than that they

46:58

know what to how to make a good

46:58

video experience on YouTube. So

47:01

I hope they're not just crushing

47:01

our algorithm right now.

47:03

Yeah. So that's something

47:03

we'll be keeping an eye on for

47:05

sure. Yeah, that's why we've

47:05

never done this before. And even

47:09

when we tried to push, like for

47:09

Buzzcast, specifically, we did

47:11

record because we record

47:11

Riverside. So we did record

47:14

video for a while and put those

47:14

up. And those didn't even get

47:16

the engagement that warranted

47:16

are continuing to do it. Even

47:19

though they were video, the

47:19

those videos themselves would

47:22

get such a lower level of

47:22

engagement, that it brought down

47:24

the value of the whole channel,

47:24

in terms of YouTube's

47:27

willingness to recommend it. And

47:27

so we stopped doing that. If

47:30

they figured this out, if

47:30

they're like, Yeah, we know that

47:32

podcasts that are static image

47:32

only, primarily audio first

47:35

experience are going to have a

47:35

lower level of engagement, and

47:37

we're not going to punish your

47:37

channel overall. For that, we're

47:41

just going to recognize it as

47:41

different types of engagement.

47:44

So your videos will be promoted

47:44

based on their merit, and your

47:47

audio only content will be

47:47

promoted based on its merit, and

47:50

they're independent. That's

47:50

great. And that's what we're

47:52

hoping for. But if there is

47:52

still some sort of, you know,

47:55

bad side effect of doing audio

47:55

first content in the YouTube

47:58

ecosystem, especially like not

47:58

specifically pushing it in a way

48:02

that only goes to YouTube music,

48:02

but it also shows up in YouTube

48:05

proper, then we're gonna have to

48:05

figure that out.

48:07

Yeah, I'm wondering if

48:07

they're probably going to be

48:10

looking more at like, average

48:10

view duration. I'm looking at

48:14

the podcast analytics, because I

48:14

uploaded eight videos yesterday.

48:18

And I have two views.

48:21

There we go.

48:22

My average, my average

48:22

view duration is 49 minutes.

48:26

That's good.

48:26

Yeah, that's great. So

48:26

hopefully, they look at that as

48:30

opposed to the two views.

48:33

Yeah, YouTube is going to

48:33

use that is like a pretty big

48:36

indicator, I think you'll

48:36

probably get more views as they

48:39

start figuring out like, there's

48:39

a type of people that really

48:42

like listening for a long period

48:42

of time, they're going to figure

48:46

out who those people are,

48:46

there's nothing that YouTube's

48:48

better at than finding out what

48:48

your content is about what type

48:52

of people like it and serving it

48:52

up to them. And so if that was

48:56

consistent, which those numbers

48:56

are stupid, high, if that was

49:00

consistent, I'm sure you would

49:00

start to see pretty incredible

49:04

growth on YouTube.

49:05

We'll see.

49:05

Yeah, the YouTube

49:05

experience for premium

49:09

subscribers to YouTube is not

49:09

terrible for audio only. I'm

49:12

sure you all have experienced

49:12

this before you've come in

49:15

contact with someone in your

49:15

life who uses YouTube a lot

49:17

their premium subscribers, and

49:17

they're using it as like the

49:20

main music app in their car or

49:20

something like that. I've gotten

49:22

into Ubers many times, they're

49:22

basically listening to podcasts

49:25

through YouTube. But you know,

49:25

they're premium subscribers

49:28

because their screen is off. And

49:28

so the challenge that YouTube

49:31

has had is how do we bring that

49:31

same type of experience to non

49:34

Premium subscribers? And it

49:34

seems like their answer is going

49:36

to be YouTube music, which

49:36

allows screen off background

49:39

audio streaming.

49:40

You know, I've actually,

49:40

I've run into that to Kevin, but

49:42

I saw it the other day as at a

49:42

restaurant, they had clearly set

49:46

up a playlist of videos that

49:46

they liked on YouTube, and their

49:51

premium subscribers and it just

49:51

played on a like loop inside the

49:55

restaurant. It's up near a naval

49:55

base. And the theme of this

50:00

ramen place is very much like

50:00

military stuff. And it was all

50:04

these like reviews of ships and

50:04

planes and all sorts of stuff,

50:07

just playing on a loop. And I

50:07

was like, Man, when you uploaded

50:11

this stuff to your channel,

50:11

somebody uploaded one point they

50:14

never do this is going to play

50:14

on a loop inside a ramen store

50:18

in Jacksonville, Florida.

50:18

I wonder if we will ever

50:18

get that experience with like, I

50:23

mean, Buzzcast is not going to

50:23

be a fit. But if any of our

50:26

podcasters I wonder if any

50:26

podcaster has ever. I'll share a

50:30

little bit about this. But have

50:30

you ever like walked into

50:32

someplace or like ask somebody what they're listening to and they're listening to your

50:34

podcast? What a neat experience

50:36

that would be. I will say this,

50:36

we went skiing a couple weeks

50:41

ago, I was not wearing

50:41

Buzzsprout T shirts or swag or

50:44

Higher Pixels or anything that would connect me to Buzzsprout at all. And we were getting

50:46

breakfast at a place and then we

50:50

sat down and I heard the two

50:50

people behind the counter

50:52

talking about that they were

50:52

podcasting. And she said

50:56

something about you have to log into my Buzzsprout account and do that.

50:58

No way!

50:59

I went, Oh my gosh, that's so cool.

51:00

Yeah.

51:01

Did you tell them who you were?

51:02

No, I didn't. We were ready.

51:04

I honestly thought for a

51:04

second year to say that someone

51:07

came up to you while you were at

51:07

the restaurant and was like, Are

51:09

you Kevin?

51:09

I hardly recognize Kevin

51:09

and we worked together.

51:14

It wasn't that they

51:14

didn't recognize me, but they

51:16

did mention Buzzsprout. And so

51:16

my wife heard it. And I was

51:20

like, oh, did you hear that? And she's like, Oh, they say something about Buzzsprout. I

51:22

said, yeah, she's like, oh, you should go tell them who you are.

51:23

I was like, no.

51:27

If you imagine if you're

51:27

like, you're working somewhere

51:31

and you're like, oh, yeah, bah,

51:31

bah, blah. I'm logging into my

51:33

account. And then the next

51:33

person in line is like, yeah, I

51:36

have actually the co founder of

51:36

that company. You're like, No,

51:38

you're not. Like, like, I just

51:38

wouldn't believe it. I'd be

51:42

like, This guy is like, I think

51:42

he's hitting on me. I don't

51:45

know. This is weird.

51:48

Coming up creepier than

51:48

cooler. Hi, so I went with a no

51:52

on that.

51:55

Have You Ever Have you

51:55

seen this new XLR? USBC combo

52:00

jack, that road is done?

52:01

Yes. I just saw it

52:01

yesterday.

52:04

Yes. It's a very

52:04

interesting, cool idea. I like

52:07

it.

52:07

I think podcasting has we

52:07

talked about this before,

52:10

there's this whole really cool

52:10

world of audio equipment that is

52:14

all based on analog audio, like

52:14

it's used with XLR cables.

52:21

Downside, obviously is those

52:21

don't work with your computer

52:25

unless they're going through

52:25

some kind of audio interface.

52:27

And so we've seen a lot of

52:27

podcast microphones that support

52:32

both digital through micro or

52:32

mini USB or USBC cables and they

52:38

also have XLR and now road has

52:38

made this one that's an XLR

52:42

cable, the hole for it in the

52:42

center of that they put a little

52:47

USBC I think it's a cool idea.

52:47

You know, it makes it really

52:51

easy for people to know plug in

52:51

here and either their two cables

52:56

plug they're not really much

52:56

more to say it's not like the

52:59

next level of podcast microphone

52:59

innovation, but I liked that

53:03

road is testing this out and

53:03

making it a little bit easier

53:06

for people who are trying to get

53:06

into podcasting.

53:09

I mean, this is really

53:09

cool. Having them combined

53:12

instead of having the USB port

53:12

up above the XLR on the side of

53:16

the XLR because I mean, one of

53:16

the things that people run into

53:19

I mean, I've run into it with my

53:19

Shure MV7 is when you plug in

53:23

your USB cable into the back of

53:23

your microphone, sometimes if

53:26

you move it a certain way, or

53:26

it's like pointed downwards,

53:30

like the cable will sometimes

53:30

fall out. And what they did with

53:34

the like little prongs that

53:34

stick out for the XLR is its

53:38

position. So if you do stick the

53:38

cable and it kind of like

53:41

supports it, so that doesn't

53:41

just fall out. So that's kind of

53:44

cool, too.

53:44

Yeah, I when I was looking at it, I was wondering if they were trying to solve for

53:46

the problem of every other

53:49

microphone that's combined XLR

53:49

and USB had both inputs, or, or

53:53

the outputs are the inputs, or

53:53

the outputs. Yeah, output. Okay,

53:57

so every other mic has allowed

53:57

you to plug in both at the same

54:00

time, which I wonder how much of

54:00

an issue that is for their

54:03

support teams are saying, Oh, I

54:03

have an XLR and I plug that in

54:06

the back of my road caster and I

54:06

also had USB so I plug that into

54:08

my computer. And now my

54:08

microphone is not working or

54:11

it's not working the way I

54:11

expect and it's like well the

54:14

both plugged in you have to

54:14

choose one or the other. And so

54:16

this solves that problem. You

54:16

can only plug in one of these at

54:18

a time. Whichever one you plug in.

54:20

It's pretty clear that

54:20

you could not plug both at the

54:22

same time.

54:23

Unless there's some new

54:23

innovation that we're not aware

54:25

of.

54:27

This solves that problem. I wonder if they're gonna get calls now that saying like I got

54:29

my USB plugged in, but I can't

54:32

get my XLR jack in it's in the

54:32

way like what's How do I do

54:35

this? They invented a new

54:35

problem.

54:41

Are we rebranding this segment?

54:43

I don't think we should.

54:44

I would prefer to rebrand

54:44

it because I think rebranding it

54:48

makes it a bit more inclusive of

54:48

the other feedback types and it

54:52

helps reduce how like triggered

54:52

the anti-buzzboosts people get.

54:57

I just don't know what to call it.

54:59

Feedback Friday

55:00

Feedback. Uhh.

55:02

That's Jordan Harbinger.

55:03

Okay, it's not good.

55:04

Oh, yeah. Like

55:04

communication corral.

55:11

That one might be worse.

55:14

We'll workshop it.

55:15

What's the workshop? I

55:15

mean, so far, we have feedback

55:17

Friday, which is a blatant rip

55:17

off of Jordan Harbinger show.

55:22

And what was your communication

55:22

corral?

55:28

Ya.

55:30

Community corner?

55:31

No, I don't like it.

55:33

But it's something about

55:33

community or audience. And it

55:36

has to have alliteration.

55:37

I guess. I just don't

55:37

like the word feedback. That

55:40

always sounds negative.

55:41

What did you just call

55:41

like sound off? It's not bad.

55:43

You get to sound off and the

55:43

Buzzcast Sound off section

55:47

Buzzboosts has been laid to rest and it's now Sound-Off segment, where listeners of the

55:49

show get to send in comments,

55:53

tips, answer questions, things

55:53

like that. I don't like being

56:01

put on the spot.

56:03

Now it's time for sound

56:03

off the segment where we read

56:06

your buzzboosts, we read your

56:06

tweets, we connect with our

56:09

audience.

56:10

Wasn't much better.

56:11

That was, that was really

56:11

good. First feedback was from

56:16

Jordan, That wasn't a very good

56:16

read by Alban. Second feedback

56:21

was a boost from GeneBean. I

56:21

hadn't thought about YouTube

56:24

shorts thanks for the tip and

56:24

Gene mean we thank you.

56:28

All right mere mortals

56:28

podcasts sent us a boost. They

56:30

said I've always been able to

56:30

put online reviews and

56:33

communication into a different

56:33

category is in there just worth

56:36

less than in person feedback? I

56:36

find they don't seem to impact

56:39

me emotionally good or bad for

56:39

that reason. I hope it's the

56:42

same for you guys. Yeah, I think

56:42

that's right. I mean, I don't

56:44

know that that works for me as

56:44

well. But I think you're right,

56:47

in theory that like, it's a lot

56:47

easier to write stuff that's

56:51

kind of negative online that you

56:51

would necessarily say that

56:53

somebody's face. So I think it's

56:53

a good perspective to have on it

56:55

when you're reading reviews, if

56:55

they're not exactly positive.

56:59

I think that goes for all

56:59

online communication, to be

57:01

honest, the amount of things

57:01

that people say, on social media

57:05

in particular, that are so

57:05

negative, and so mean, I'm

57:10

constantly shocked and like, you

57:10

would never say that to

57:12

someone's face. And I mean, that

57:12

was the big wake up call. When

57:16

on Facebook, I started realizing

57:16

people I knew in real life, I

57:20

knew they didn't talk like that

57:20

in real life. And they would

57:22

just go at it. As soon as they

57:22

got together on Facebook. And I

57:26

was like, There's something

57:26

unhealthy about this, you know,

57:29

computers disintermediated the

57:29

relationship and all of a

57:32

sudden, people get much more

57:32

intense. So I think mere mortals

57:36

podcast here, right?

57:37

Moritz of Alby, sent us

57:37

10000 SATs saying regarding

57:41

receiving feedback. Since

57:41

listener feedback is extremely

57:44

valuable. We want to make it as

57:44

easy as possible. With more and

57:47

more players adopting features

57:47

like cross up comments, or

57:50

booster grams, we are on a good

57:50

way because it works directly in

57:53

the app as comments on YouTube.

57:53

No need to switch context and

57:56

open another app anymore.

57:58

That's right. Yeah,

57:58

that's, that's great. So the

58:00

more technology we have for

58:00

people to be able to interact

58:02

with podcasters, the better. And

58:02

I think you're right, like the

58:05

key is making that like into the

58:05

listening experience as much as

58:08

possible. So we're excited to

58:08

see more apps pushing in that

58:10

direction and making it possible.

58:12

Scott, our friend on

58:12

Twitter, not just an editor,

58:16

wrote in Hey, Buzzcast, so

58:16

please make sure Kevin Finn

58:19

didn't get kidnapped. I heard

58:19

way too many positive things

58:21

about Spotify for him in the

58:21

last episode. I thought the same

58:26

thing. When I listened as well,

58:26

though, I will vouch for Kevin,

58:30

the persona that is on the

58:30

podcast is not Kevin. But this

58:35

is a it's not you 100%. And I

58:35

think that often the news, when

58:41

Spotify is the news that gets

58:41

pulled in to the show often is

58:45

the news about Spotify that

58:45

saying, hey, Spotify is trying

58:49

to do this business thing to try

58:49

to own podcasting. And that is

58:54

like a total trigger for Kevin,

58:54

where he's like, yeah, that's

58:57

not a good thing. We should keep

58:57

it open. And obviously, working

59:00

behind the scenes on the PI

59:00

Standards Project, you get that

59:04

version of Kevin, there's also

59:04

in real life. And on this

59:08

podcast, like you saw last week,

59:08

a version of Kevin that's like,

59:11

Oh, that's a cool thing. Spotify

59:11

did nice. It's just I think that

59:15

is the news. That's not as

59:15

exciting. And so when Spotify is

59:19

like, hey, what if we tried out

59:19

this vertical feed to recommend

59:22

podcast clips and parents like,

59:22

Oh, that's cool. Flip through it

59:25

a little bit. We're just not

59:25

talking about that as much. And

59:28

so I think you got a little bit

59:28

of the, it was one of the times

59:31

where the positive side of

59:31

Spotify was on the show, and you

59:35

got that part of Kevin, Kevin,

59:35

do you think that's true? Do you

59:38

think that's a fair?

59:39

I think so. I mean, I

59:39

really think like if we had a

59:41

beer together if we had dinner,

59:41

I don't think I would talk about

59:43

Spotify at all. I wouldn't bring

59:43

it up. But if you did, you're

59:45

gonna get it all.

59:50

Probably my favorite

59:50

piece of feedback that we might

59:52

have ever gotten. Jordan, you

59:52

shared something with us. I

59:54

don't know if you want to put this on the podcast, but I think you should. You got some

59:56

feedback personally, that you

59:59

shared with Kevin and I could you read this email that you received.

1:00:02

I received an email to

1:00:02

my personal podcast inbox and in

1:00:07

all caps, it says FANMAIL. It's

1:00:07

from Molly Blair. And she wrote

1:00:12

in saying, guess what I listened

1:00:12

to Buzzcast. You said you don't

1:00:15

get fan mail. Here it is. And I

1:00:15

appreciated that so deeply. So I

1:00:20

had to give her a shout out.

1:00:21

How about that. So she

1:00:21

listened to Buzzcast like she

1:00:23

looked up your personal podcast

1:00:23

found Dreamful like that.

1:00:27

remembered from Buzzcast that

1:00:27

you don't get a lot of fan mail

1:00:29

after listening to your dream

1:00:29

full episode and then shot you

1:00:32

some positive fan mail. What a

1:00:32

nice story.

1:00:34

I know. That's awesome.

1:00:34

All right. Thanks for listening

1:00:37

and keep podcasting. Yeah, I'm

1:00:37

always really interested. When

1:00:43

Kevin sends a TikTok, I know

1:00:43

it's gonna be good.

1:00:47

So I know Alban is all

1:00:47

into AI. AI is everywhere. Now

1:00:51

it's like everything that people

1:00:51

are talking about. And a guy

1:00:54

who's a golfer was out on the

1:00:54

golf course. And he said, I want

1:00:57

to try to use Chat GTP as my

1:00:57

caddy for the day and I want to

1:01:00

see how it does. And so we set

1:01:00

up Chat GTP with like all the

1:01:04

prompts that would make sense to

1:01:04

Chat GTP understood that it was

1:01:07

going to be serving as his caddy

1:01:07

for the day. And then he played

1:01:09

a round of golf. And so the

1:01:09

first thing he did was he told

1:01:12

him that the chat should repeat

1:01:12

which course he was playing. And

1:01:15

he said, the clubs that were in

1:01:15

his bag,

1:01:18

Kevin could just step in

1:01:18

for half a second? Chat G-P-T.

1:01:22

What am I saying? GTP?

1:01:22

Yeah, oh my gosh. I know that in

1:01:27

my brain. I didn't mean

1:01:27

anything. I just coming out of

1:01:30

my mouth. GPT doesn't it stand

1:01:30

for something?

1:01:32

It does. But I now have

1:01:32

to look up what it is.

1:01:35

So chat GPT was the

1:01:35

interface that he was using to

1:01:40

interact with artificial

1:01:40

intelligence. So he hits his

1:01:43

first golf shot. Well, he

1:01:43

actually says, okay, I'm okay,

1:01:45

check GPT caddy, or he calls the

1:01:45

caddy says, okay, caddy, I'm

1:01:48

gonna hold one. What club should

1:01:48

I use? And it says, it gives

1:01:51

them all the information about hole one like it found the course it knows what it is hole

1:01:53

one is this many yards, I think

1:01:55

you should use a driver. So he's

1:01:55

a great uses driver hits a good

1:01:58

shot. And he says I'm about you

1:01:58

know, 140 yards from the green.

1:02:02

What should I what clubs should

1:02:02

I use? And it says Use your nine

1:02:04

iron. He gets his nine iron he

1:02:04

types and I came up a little bit

1:02:07

short. Just so you know. For

1:02:07

future reference. I usually hit

1:02:09

my nine iron about 120 yards and

1:02:09

chat. GTP says I said right now.

1:02:14

PT. I'm just gonna say Caddy.

1:02:14

Yeah. And then so the Caddy says

1:02:18

back to him. Okay,

1:02:20

generative, pre trained

1:02:20

transformer. Just say that it's

1:02:24

easier

1:02:26

Because he says back to him. Okay, great. I'll remember that for future information. And

1:02:27

then he says, So are we on the

1:02:30

same page that I should use my

1:02:30

like 54 degree wedge. And the

1:02:34

caddy says back to him? Yes. I

1:02:34

think that sounds right. He hits

1:02:37

his wedge, and he says about a

1:02:37

great amount of green. And then

1:02:40

the caddy says back to him like

1:02:40

congratulations, nice shot. He

1:02:42

says I'm 10 foot out. And the

1:02:42

caddy says you're gonna use your

1:02:44

putter, right? He says, Yeah,

1:02:44

anyway, he does the whole round

1:02:47

of golf like this. And I don't

1:02:47

know, I was just like, This is

1:02:50

amazing that I can interact like

1:02:50

this, obviously, probably was

1:02:54

never trained as being a caddy

1:02:54

as a use case. But anybody who

1:02:57

plays golf knows that on the

1:02:57

nicer courses anyway, they have

1:03:00

like GPS is built into the golf

1:03:00

carts themselves. So it shows

1:03:03

you exactly where you are in the

1:03:03

course how far you are to the

1:03:05

pin, so you don't have to use a

1:03:05

rangefinder. And I could see

1:03:09

within a couple of years, all of

1:03:09

this coming into those GPS

1:03:13

systems that are already built

1:03:13

into the golf carts, like your

1:03:15

golf cart now has artificial

1:03:15

intelligence built into it,

1:03:17

where you can tell it with

1:03:17

probably just a few things like

1:03:21

on average, I drive this far. I

1:03:21

hit my five iron this far in my

1:03:24

wedge this far. And they could

1:03:24

probably figure out everything

1:03:27

else from there about which

1:03:27

clubs to recommend, and could

1:03:30

probably start learning like the

1:03:30

safest shots to hit or make

1:03:33

recommendations about, you know,

1:03:33

like flying over hazards or not,

1:03:36

anyway, really cool application.

1:03:36

And I thought it'd be

1:03:38

interesting because you love artificial intelligence and you love golf.

1:03:41

The golf tech world has

1:03:41

really, really improved over

1:03:44

like, I don't know who last 10

1:03:44

years. Me, I guess it's been

1:03:48

improving the whole time. But

1:03:48

the thing I use is something

1:03:51

called 18 birdies. And it's an

1:03:51

app that is tracking your GPS

1:03:55

the whole round. And then is

1:03:55

showing you you're this far from

1:03:59

each spot on the hole in it asks

1:03:59

you what you hit. And so it

1:04:03

starts figuring out how far you

1:04:03

do hit. So it's actually doing a

1:04:07

lot of what you're recommending

1:04:07

right now, one of the even

1:04:11

cooler things that I love about

1:04:11

it is when you're teeing off,

1:04:15

it's not going to say things

1:04:15

like, hey, there's a bunker 230

1:04:18

out, and so you should be able

1:04:18

to hit over that greenside

1:04:22

bunker. So but it will say

1:04:22

people who hit center on average

1:04:26

are hit shooting par, people

1:04:26

shooting left, on average, or

1:04:29

one stroke over people shooting,

1:04:29

right, three strokes over. And

1:04:34

so you can go like, Okay, sounds

1:04:34

like if anything missile left

1:04:37

rather than missing, right. And

1:04:37

you could probably look at it

1:04:41

and figure it out. I think

1:04:41

really, what's super impressive,

1:04:45

I guess, is Chat GPT was not

1:04:45

made for golf caddy. And yet,

1:04:49

it's still like, reasonably good

1:04:49

at interacting with humans on

1:04:53

you know, just by this nature of

1:04:53

the way it's built. It's able to

1:04:57

interact with us and give us

1:04:57

somewhat useful information in

1:05:01

all sorts of ridiculous contexts.

1:05:03

That's kind of the thing

1:05:03

that's interesting to think

1:05:06

about is that, you know, he just

1:05:06

he didn't have a caddy, he

1:05:09

didn't have someone with him to

1:05:09

give them advice on it. And so

1:05:12

he just said, like, Here's what

1:05:12

I have. Tell me what to do now.

1:05:15

And I'm thinking about, like,

1:05:15

other use cases for like, this

1:05:18

is what I have, what can I do

1:05:18

with it? So I'm thinking for

1:05:21

some reason, cooking comes to

1:05:21

mind. So saying, like, I have

1:05:24

noodles, and I have this

1:05:24

vegetable, and I have this and

1:05:27

what can I make? And then seeing

1:05:27

if there's some sort of

1:05:30

recommended, like recipe and

1:05:30

stuff like that. I know that

1:05:33

there's apps and things like

1:05:33

that. But if you have that just

1:05:36

with the Chat GPT I'm trying to

1:05:36

think of other instances of

1:05:39

like, these are the supplies I

1:05:39

have, what can I do with this?

1:05:43

Oh, yeah, the and the one

1:05:43

you just gave, hey, here's what

1:05:46

I have on hand. What could I

1:05:46

make? And could you also give me

1:05:49

a recipe for that? Yeah, that is

1:05:49

a something that Chad GPT is

1:05:52

really good at.

1:05:54

You know, we're actually thinking about a lot I would love you know, we have this

1:05:55

sound off segment. I would love

1:05:59

if anyone's listening to our

1:05:59

post show if you're interested

1:06:01

in like creative solutions for

1:06:01

how AI can help you in your

1:06:04

podcasting workflow that's something that's something that we're discussing a lot around

1:06:06

here so if you have ideas if you

1:06:09

have suggestions for that like

1:06:09

us the opportunity to interact

1:06:12

with us on the show because

1:06:12

we're thinking about it so how

1:06:14

can AI help podcasting