0:00

I'm also a huge hip-hop head . I used to just

0:02

think about my favorite artists and how a lot

0:04

of them had street teams in the early 90s

0:06

and in the heydays . So just the things of passing

0:08

out flyers and posters . Actually , that might have been

0:10

the first real promo I did and I

0:12

put them in comic shops . We targeted all the ones

0:15

here in Jax and then we would think , ok , what's the

0:17

next town over ? Meet the people working there , drop

0:19

off a stack of flyers , put a poster up . The

0:21

amount of times I can tell you where . We would get an email

0:23

. Or I'd meet someone that was like dude , I love

0:25

the show , pick up a flyer , I've seen your poster

0:28

at the shop I go to . So it was

0:30

like a sense of like we knew where our

0:32

listeners are . Right , because , like you said , it's a very niche

0:35

thing . Right , it's comic shop people being

0:37

the biggest champion of your own show , the biggest

0:39

advocate , being your own street team and

0:41

just getting the word out .

0:49

Everybody . Welcome back to the channel . Today I'm

0:52

joined by Bother Milligan . Bother is

0:54

the host of the Short Box podcast . He's the

0:56

founder of Jax Podcast Roushee Night , the

0:58

local podcast meetup group here in Jacksonville

1:00

, florida . He's a regular on the Buzzsprout

1:02

channel and he was recently named the best

1:04

podcast host in the 904 , which is

1:06

the Greater Jacksonville area . Bother , thank

1:08

you so much for joining me .

1:09

Dude , it is my pleasure , as a

1:11

fan of everything Buzzsprout does and

1:14

the YouTube channel and interviews you've done . This is

1:16

a big honor . Thank you , we appreciate you doing

1:18

it . You've been podcasting for a while . December 2012

1:20

is when we finally put out our first episodes . 10

1:23

years officially is December 2012 is

1:25

what I tell myself . So yeah , about 10 years plus .

1:27

For everyone watching . You're not

1:29

misspeaking . That's over 13

1:31

years ago right now as we're recording this , or

1:33

I guess not over 13 . Well , I don't know how to

1:35

do that . That's over 10 years .

1:40

Yeah , this year will be 11 solid years of podcasting

1:43

.

1:43

So what's changed in 11 years of podcasting

1:45

Dude ?

1:46

everything , man , I think internally

1:48

I've become a just more confident

1:51

person . Podcasting was probably one of the better

1:53

things I did in my life , in

1:56

addition to joining the military and getting those benefits

1:58

. Falling in love with this medium and

2:00

having this passion and this hobby and

2:02

being dedicated to it for so long . I've seen

2:04

so many different benefits outside

2:07

of monetary stuff but

2:10

from just personal being more confident , having

2:13

the ability to just chat with people and

2:17

even getting the job I have now work

2:20

a daytime job as a project

2:22

manager in marketing , but one of my selling points

2:24

was I had my podcast on my resume because

2:26

I felt like all the skills I learned in the sense

2:28

of collaboration and discussions

2:31

and facilitating conversations

2:33

was applicable to being a project

2:36

manager . So , yeah , a lot has changed

2:38

, just , I think , internally . And then obviously , the

2:40

tech right . I mentioned having

2:42

to wait on a tech guy to set up some

2:44

sort of website so we could have a hosting platform

2:47

, and then he taught me XML

2:49

and how to manually update the RSS

2:51

feed . Now you've got platforms like BuzzFrow where

2:53

it's as simple as just dragging the MP3 and letting

2:55

it do the rest . I do not miss the days

2:57

of mainly coding a notepad

3:00

document or yeah , a note document

3:02

.

3:02

Well , we're glad to take that little bit of it off your

3:04

plate . How do you think that podcast image you more

3:06

confident ?

3:07

I guess in a few ways that's a good question . In

3:09

a few ways , I'd say , because

3:11

we were getting into interviewing . You

3:13

know I was interviewing people obviously I had never

3:15

met . You know I had to do research , I

3:17

had to come prepared , I had to speak confidently

3:19

too . You know I had to like lead the conversation

3:22

and you never knew like what you know person's

3:24

background walk of life was like

3:26

until you really got into the conversation . So

3:28

even like just being spontaneous , but while

3:30

also listening right , like kind of walking

3:33

that fine line of listening , you know , queuing

3:35

up the next question , maybe even letting the conversation

3:37

go in places . So I think just being like

3:39

just that , just you know that

3:41

repetition , like practicing that muscle

3:44

of like talking , being on

3:46

, like aware , conscious , I

3:48

think definitely just helped in the sense of like being just

3:51

more confident and just like my everyday life , like you know

3:53

, being out with friends and meeting new friends

3:55

and like you know I

3:58

sometimes I would have to catch myself like bother . This is not

4:00

an interview , this is a normal person , just

4:02

out here having a good drink . You don't need to go into

4:04

a 30 minute , like you know , find out about every

4:06

detail of their life , but just like

4:08

that constant practice

4:11

of like talking with people , and even among

4:13

friends too . You know , like I think there's

4:15

something about spending the

4:17

last like , personally speaking , spending the last 10

4:19

plus years of constantly

4:22

listening and being hypercritical

4:24

of my obviously I kind of let go of the hypercritical after

4:27

a while , but like something about hearing yourself

4:29

talk and like understanding

4:31

your mannerisms and certain ticks

4:33

and things like I think . You know , at

4:36

first it's all very haunting , it's like

4:38

the worst experience , like oh my God , I sound like

4:40

that , I talk like that . But then you start

4:42

accepting like these things about yourself that make

4:44

yourself unique , cause now you're listening , cause

4:46

I , you know , I run a show with co-hosts , so

4:49

I'm also hearing their ticks and their unique

4:51

attributes and appreciating , you know , just

4:53

like these small audio things

4:55

that make us all unique . I think there's a certain at

4:57

some point I just became confident of like well , this

5:00

is who I am at this point and I'm just gonna own it .

5:02

Before we get too far I guess I should we should

5:04

bring up what's your podcast about . It's the short

5:06

box podcast . What is ?

5:08

the short box . So the short box is

5:10

a comic book talk show that I've been doing

5:12

for the last 10 years and

5:14

I like to think that we've entertained

5:16

listeners around the world with great

5:18

conversations about comic books and pop culture

5:21

topics . Founded by myself and

5:23

two of my best friends , andrew Torres

5:25

and Walter Gant . It was started honestly

5:27

in a comic shop Years ago with

5:29

my buddy Drew . Me and him are basically

5:32

like long lost brothers . We love comics

5:34

, the same music , the same movies . You know

5:36

we have the same sense of humor . We then met Walt

5:38

, who'd be coming to the shop when we'd work and

5:40

we would have like a podcast without

5:42

mics in this comic shop , like we'd

5:44

close down the shop and we'd be right out front of the

5:46

store still talking about this stuff

5:49

. And then one day Walt got

5:51

invited onto a podcast because he's got like this

5:53

immaculate gift of gab . He could just

5:55

talk to anyone about any topics and

5:58

through his podcast he was doing , he allowed

6:00

us to use the mics and we formed the short box

6:02

. Obviously , the cast has changed

6:04

, you know my co-hosts have changed , but

6:07

the core of it all has always been the same

6:09

Talking about comic books and pop culture

6:11

, interviewing some of the best creators

6:13

in this industry . I think that's another been

6:15

. Another awesome benefit of doing a

6:17

podcast is that I've been able to pick

6:19

the brains of , you know , writers

6:22

and artists and creators

6:24

in this industry that I , you know , have

6:26

a huge sense of mental attachment to . So

6:28

that's a short box . And then I was crazy enough about

6:31

two years ago to launch another podcast

6:33

called the Next Spin Podcast , and that one's

6:35

all about record collecting and talking

6:37

about music , and I do that one with a

6:40

different set of friends who are also , you

6:42

know , big talkers . We all love music and that

6:44

one's more of like just a . You know that

6:47

was my casual one , that's once a month . The

6:49

short box is like you know I got

6:51

that on a military routine Every Wednesday

6:53

we've dropped an episode . You know that's the one I've

6:55

been doing 10 plus years .

6:56

One of the things you mentioned in other

6:58

videos or other podcasts I listened

7:01

to was these are the shows that you would

7:03

be doing , even if you didn't have a microphone

7:05

, Like you were already doing these podcasts by

7:07

talking to friends and discussing these topics

7:10

and at some point you were like , why don't I just

7:12

do this behind a microphone and put it out

7:14

there for the world ? How did you become

7:16

, you know , realize there was this thing called podcasting

7:19

back in 2012 and realize , like there

7:21

might be other people out there who'd be interested in

7:23

hearing this .

7:23

So Walt was part of this

7:26

show called the Side Hustle , and they talked

7:29

it was a group of Walt and his friends they

7:31

would talk about they would record on Fridays . That

7:33

was a unique thing and they would just talk about like the

7:35

work week , like what was going on in politics

7:37

. They were all a big sports buff , they loved

7:40

music , so the conversations could go anywhere and

7:42

I believe Walt was my introduction Cause he would tell

7:44

us , like check out the Side Hustle as a podcast and

7:46

it's like you know , this was 20 , I

7:49

think 2011 , 2012

7:52

, early 2012 . So I

7:55

was the biggest fan of that show , like

7:57

I would tune in . I would text Walt if they missed a

7:59

date , like cause obviously they weren't too sure

8:01

of like what it could become , but I was like so

8:03

enthralled with it , even though I was talking to Walt like every

8:06

week , I loved the banter of this

8:08

co-host and obviously I started finding

8:10

like my own podcast to listen to . Like there

8:12

was a one that Kevin Smith was doing

8:15

that he still does . It's called Fat man on Batman . That

8:17

was like all about Batman and comic books . And

8:20

then I found like a hip hop one called

8:22

One Epstein . So I had I started finding

8:24

my own like weekly

8:26

listens and you know I was using , you

8:30

know , apple podcasts and I was actually downloading

8:32

the MP3s and putting them on like my iPod

8:34

or stuff like that . So you

8:36

know through Walt , and then finding my

8:39

own and just and there wasn't . You know it was kind

8:41

of a scarce selection but I just started

8:43

thinking like what are my hobbies , and

8:46

you know , and then finding like

8:48

names that I was familiar with .

8:50

That's really cool . One of the unique things you've

8:52

done , vodder , is that you've been running a similar

8:54

style podcast for over 10 years . You've

8:57

been doing a conversation podcast , multiple

8:59

co-hosts . Things have changed over the years , but

9:01

I feel like , more than anyone , you've had

9:03

a ton of practice , or 300 episodes

9:06

, kind of wrangling multiple co-hosts

9:08

into a single conversation . What

9:10

have you learned since you've ?

9:11

been doing that , I ended up learning to get a feel

9:14

for the strength

9:16

and weaknesses of different people . I

9:19

feel like I've always kind of been a good listener , at least

9:21

my mom . Well , my mom might disagree with you , that's

9:23

certainly you know . I wasn't maybe the best , but

9:25

I think it made me a better listener and

9:28

there is just something intimate

9:31

about listening to people

9:34

through headphones , especially when you're editing

9:36

and trying to polish something

9:38

and you know making certain executive decisions

9:40

about . You know what stays , what goes , what , you

9:43

know what's filler or you know what you let

9:45

ride out . So I think it made

9:47

me a better listener and someone that

9:49

and also it gave me the ability to

9:51

, you know , shine

9:53

a spotlight on people . Certain strengths Like , for

9:56

example , like my co-Sazar he's

9:58

extremely funny , he's got , you know

10:00

, he can give you , he could drop a monologue

10:03

, a very thoughtful , thought-provoking

10:05

monologue at the you know , the drop

10:08

of a hat . So you know , I know that

10:10

Sazar is really good on the fly . Ed

10:12

is a researcher like me . He's you know

10:14

, he's doing homework before we record

10:16

. He's got a just a vast

10:18

knowledge of just stuff . So I'll look to Ed

10:21

, you know , I'll shine a spotlight on Ed when it's time to like

10:23

, get factual or share some tidbits

10:25

. Ashley is a little more reserved

10:27

, a little more quiet . I know that we can't overpower

10:30

her or we can't . You know we should avoid

10:32

interrupting her when she's on , like , when

10:34

she's on a roll , like you know . Take a step back , let

10:36

her shine . So I think it just made me you know more

10:39

in tune with , like , people's strengths and

10:41

personalities . And I even carry that over

10:43

to like my job . You know I mentioned I'm a project

10:45

manager . A big chunk of

10:47

that is facilitating meetings . You don't do

10:49

a lot of talking yourself . You kind of much

10:51

like a podcast or interview . You set

10:53

up the topics , you know , you throw out the topics out

10:55

there and you know you kind of guide the conversation

10:58

and I utilize that , you know , on my day to

11:00

day just understanding like , okay

11:02

, what is this person good at ? What are they comfortable with

11:04

? Who's the subject matter expert ? Who can

11:06

take this ? Who probably shouldn't , you know , dive

11:08

into this topic ?

11:09

Yeah , one thing you just mentioned there was prep . I

11:11

think there's quite a few people who

11:13

hear the conversation podcast or kind of round

11:16

table discussion , and they think this

11:18

is totally impromptu , it's not scripted

11:21

, just like four friends are

11:23

on a couch and we turned on the mic and

11:25

that's not what your show is . So what

11:28

does prep look like for a conversation

11:30

podcast ?

11:31

You know , in the early days we were not prepping at all

11:33

Me , drew and Wol . It's became

11:35

. It was like really it's night and day . Now , when I listened

11:37

back and to be honest , I , me

11:40

, wol and Drew still record , like they're still part

11:42

of the show . Hell , I think two weeks no

11:44

, last week or two weeks ago me and Drew drove

11:46

down to Orlando to record a fault , and

11:48

that one was just strictly casual . Then

11:51

, whenever I got real serious about podcasting

11:54

, I knew that it was time to , like you know I

11:56

need to have topics . You know , if I'm gonna

11:58

speak to news or

12:01

changes in the industry

12:03

or our headlines , I should be like a

12:05

little more informed . And I'd say that

12:07

was such a big help in

12:10

just fine tuning and polishing

12:12

the show . Like , yeah , we can still

12:15

, you know , we can still have

12:17

jokes and go down tangents and

12:19

rabbit holes and things like that

12:21

. But as someone that's

12:23

like organized and you know I've become a stickler

12:26

for , like you know , certain flows . Having

12:28

some sort of outline , you know

12:31

, helps out tremendously , cause at least you know

12:33

what the next goal is , what the next target

12:35

is . Like we can spend some time here , but let's move

12:37

on to the next one and prep for

12:39

me . Now I'll say I don't know why I was

12:41

so hesitant , you know , for all these

12:43

years , to getting into like the Google suite

12:46

. Like I was still using Excel at some

12:48

point to like share things out . And then

12:50

, you know , my girlfriend Blythe

12:52

was like you

12:54

should just be using Google Docs in

12:57

. You know the Google suite . There's no reason for you to be using Excel

12:59

. In a word , no one has that program . It's 2018

13:01

, butter , come on . So , honestly , google

13:03

Docs is my go-to tool for outlines

13:05

. I realized that once

13:08

I had a central place where I could put

13:10

my thoughts about how an episode flow , topics

13:13

and , you know , even sharing , like articles

13:15

that I'm reading and , you know , sharing

13:17

my bullet points and notes with my team , made

13:20

a tremendous change . I'll never forget Ashley

13:24

pulling me to the side and saying , like hey , those

13:26

outlines are great . Like I know I

13:28

can , I know what to expect , I know what points

13:30

you might bring up and if I disagree or agree

13:32

, like , I have a basis to work from . So

13:35

it's been tremendous just having an

13:37

outline and letting , like your natural personalities

13:40

do the rest Right . Like your foundation

13:42

is the outline , knowing what you're going to talk

13:44

about the topics , and just letting your personality

13:46

do the rest , filling the cracks and , like you know , give

13:48

it some color and some life .

13:50

There's a bit of once , there's some structure , there's

13:52

a little bit more freedom to just

13:55

be yourself in the moment . If

13:57

you don't have a little bit of that , here

14:00

are the four topics we're going to go through . Here's the

14:02

movie we're talking about , the comic book series we're

14:04

talking about . If you don't have that instead

14:07

, now you're spending a lot of your brain space thinking

14:10

, well , what am I going to say next ? Okay , what

14:12

point could we bring up ? Okay , we haven't

14:14

talked about this video . I think we should talk about this video

14:16

. Okay , if no one's seen it . Like there's so much

14:18

prep that's going on in your brain . But once

14:20

you know , there's this outline in

14:22

a Google doc and it says these

14:24

are the five things we're talking about today . Now

14:27

you can just be you in the moment

14:29

, and I think it leads to a much more

14:31

authentic version of

14:34

the co-hosts . And I

14:37

don't know you tell me how does this affect

14:39

you on the editing side , because I'm sure has a

14:41

big impact .

14:42

On the editing side , it helps

14:44

tremendously , especially in this day and age

14:46

where you're thinking social clips

14:48

, you're thinking like sound bites from the

14:50

podcast to use to promote the

14:52

show . So having an outline I

14:54

know and let me take

14:56

a step back for editing I

14:59

know where we're at . I know this

15:01

chunk of this audio is for this

15:03

topic . I can apply some timestamps

15:06

. I also know hey , this is topical , this

15:09

will probably get a buzz on social media

15:11

. I know that this topic is relevant and

15:14

then also have an outline saves you time in

15:18

editing because , to your point , if you don't

15:20

have an outline , it's just kind of rambling

15:22

right , like you're kind of just coming on the fly

15:25

over these topics and maybe you end

15:27

up spending way too much time on one and

15:29

not enough time on the other . I

15:31

think it's just overall , just it's

15:33

a huge time saver to have an outline

15:35

to work from on the editing

15:37

side . You just know the flow

15:40

and the certain beats and you can make a smarter

15:42

decisions about what stays and what goes , and

15:44

does this meet the goal of the episode

15:47

?

15:47

You're very process-oriented

15:49

, potter . I think this is probably a bit of your

15:51

military background , but also some of your project

15:53

management , day-to-day job

15:55

. 10 years in , what does the process look like

15:57

for you From going to do an episode

16:00

next week , prep , recording , editing

16:02

, publishing , through the whole thing ? Could

16:04

you run us like at a high level ? What does that process look

16:06

like ?

16:07

It's changed a little bit because some

16:09

of my co-hosts they've all started having

16:11

kids , so like the team's down to a

16:13

little more slimmer . I'm doing a lot more interviews

16:15

to the process Instead of thinking like

16:18

holistically and in the entire team

16:20

I've been able to kind of just it's been a

16:22

little malleable of just myself , but the process

16:24

or the longest time that was like

16:26

just working for us is we'd

16:29

record on Sundays . So

16:31

by Monday , tuesday , I

16:34

had a read . I knew what the topic was gonna be . I

16:36

kind of got into a good group . If we weren't having interviews

16:38

, we were gonna talk about news

16:40

and headlines . If it wasn't news and headlines

16:42

, it was gonna be a comic book review or

16:45

we might do a movie review . It was like I kind of

16:47

had certain buckets about what

16:49

are the short box episodes , interviews , news

16:51

, headlines , movie reviews , book reviews . Those

16:54

are the certain buckets . So Monday , tuesday , I'd text

16:56

a group hey guys , sunday at one o'clock here's

16:59

the topic I'll have an outline

17:01

by no later than Friday

17:03

, usually Wednesday , thursday I'll actually

17:05

get the Google Doc outline made

17:07

that gives them all of Friday and Saturday

17:10

to kind of prep . And

17:12

then Sunday we record at one

17:14

o'clock , which gives me it

17:16

used to give me all of Sunday night and

17:19

then Monday as well to edit . So I would

17:21

edit those two days , usually

17:24

by Tuesday . I wanna put it up by on Patreon

17:26

. It's also ready to go . It's scheduled

17:28

for a Wednesday drop on Buzzsprout

17:30

. Wednesday I'll actually start cutting

17:32

promo and things like that . So it was

17:34

like really rinse and repeat your

17:37

big days being , like I said , friday

17:39

having the outline done , sunday , recording

17:41

Monday , tuesday , editing Tuesday

17:44

, wednesday , kind of cutting promos and thinking

17:46

about the next episode .

17:48

That's really cool . One thing you kind of hint

17:50

at a little bit there is some of the promo

17:52

stuff and you've done a lot of

17:54

interesting things around growing

17:57

your podcast . I think some of this comes from

17:59

, like the subject matter , comic books

18:02

or the physical medium . You

18:04

I use you as an example all the time because you've

18:06

done a lot of promo around

18:08

physical objects .

18:09

Can you tell me some of these stories ? I think a lot of that inspiration

18:12

comes from love music . I'm also

18:14

a huge hip hop head . I used to just think about

18:16

like my favorite record labels and my favorite

18:18

artists and how a lot of them had like street teams

18:21

in the early 90s and in the heydays

18:23

. So just the things of like passing out flyers

18:25

and posters . That was actually . That might've been like the

18:27

first real promo I did . I got some

18:29

terribly designed posters and flyers

18:31

and I put them in comic shops . Me and

18:33

Drew would just would use Saturdays , we'd

18:35

link up on Saturdays and just drive to a comic

18:38

shop we targeted all the ones here in Jax and then

18:40

we would think like , okay , what's the next town over , let's

18:42

go there . So Daytona would be the next week and

18:44

we'd go to comic shop . You know , meet the people working there

18:46

, drop off a stack of flyers , put a poster

18:48

up the amount of times I can tell you where we would get

18:50

an email or I'd meet someone that was like

18:52

dude , I love the show , pick up a flyer or a

18:54

senior poster at the shop I go

18:57

to . So it was like a sense of like , where are

18:59

? We knew where our listeners are right Cause , like you

19:01

said , it's a very niche thing . Right , it's

19:03

. It's comic shop people . We're comic people

19:05

ourselves . We know how they think they're going to be at the shop , like

19:07

every Wednesday or enough times to

19:09

hopefully see this . So

19:11

things like the physical . I still

19:13

print flyers to this day when I go to the shop

19:16

, like for free comic book day . Last week I

19:18

gave Ben a stack of flyers like

19:20

dude , if you don't mind putting this in the in

19:22

a bag for every single person you know .

19:24

You had one time , I think , where you were like

19:26

overseas in Germany or something right .

19:29

That's right . Thank you for reminding me that . Okay , on the

19:31

topic of that , anytime , how

19:34

? The Vancouver trip is a good example . I

19:36

always pack a stack of flyers

19:39

like little , oh yeah , little flyers , right , cause

19:41

I know when I go travel , there's two things

19:43

I'm definitely going to do . Well , maybe three . I'm

19:46

going to eat as much food as I humanly can

19:48

. Right , I'm going to eat my weight and good food

19:50

, but I'm also going to go to a record shop and

19:52

I'm also going to go to a comic shop , cause I love visiting

19:54

other countries , other states , shops

19:56

and seeing how they do things . For

19:59

my first deployment , when I was still in the Air

20:01

Force and you know , cesar was my co

20:03

you know my co-host , cesar , was also

20:05

in the same unit . He's actually a big reason

20:07

why I got into the Air National Guard . But

20:10

in 2015 , we

20:12

had our first deployment . It was my first deployment

20:15

at that and we went over to Europe . We went

20:17

to . It was three months one and a half months

20:19

in Holland and then the last half in

20:21

Bulgaria , and so me and C

20:23

had to take a little break from the podcast , but

20:25

my co-host kept it running . But I took a

20:27

bunch of flyers and on

20:30

our downtime we'd go to comic shops just

20:32

drop them off , and one , I

20:34

think when we were in Holland it was

20:36

free comic book day and

20:38

we were like dude , we gotta like check out how Holland

20:40

does free comic book day . So we went to the shop

20:43

and they had a signing with

20:46

an artist that we were both huge

20:48

fans of . We were like , whoa , what are the chances

20:50

of us being here at this time ? And

20:52

I took a shot . I asked the owner hey

20:54

, I'm from America . I got a comic podcast

20:56

. I remember him thinking like what is

20:58

that ? Like I remember actually him thinking

21:00

like kind of being like kind of amazed , like whoa

21:03

, these American guys , like you know , got a show . So

21:05

we got to use that to our advantage . And he was like

21:07

, oh , some guy from IGN Netherland's

21:10

is here , he's gonna do an interview . Talk

21:12

to him . And we talked to him and he was like , well

21:14

, how about you guys ? How about we just do a joint podcast

21:17

together ? And you know , I got a

21:19

sweet interview . It was actually

21:21

really funny because he had a little hand

21:23

recorded mic and he was waiting

21:25

on the line to die down . And the line eventually

21:28

did die down , but there was no quiet place in the

21:30

shop to record the interview . So

21:32

we stepped right outside the shop and we huddled

21:34

. It was myself , cesar I

21:36

think the guy's name was Jay and then the artist

21:39

and his manager . We all huddled

21:41

up together across the street from the shop . It

21:43

was raining slightly , so we were underneath

21:46

this cover and there was a little recorder

21:48

in the middle and me and Cesar , like this is the

21:50

coolest thing ever . This interview

21:52

is gonna go on IGN Netherland's and we're going

21:54

to get the audio for ourselves . So it

21:56

just like you know , those moments of just always

21:58

kind of being in , like you know being

22:01

the biggest champion of your own show , the biggest

22:03

advocate , being your own street team , and

22:05

you know just getting the word out .

22:06

Correct me if I'm wrong . I remember you say once you

22:09

can actually still go back to your stats on

22:11

Buzzsprout and look at some of these different

22:13

countries and be like there it is . There's a little

22:15

pocket of the Netherlands . There's a little pocket

22:17

over here in Bulgaria .

22:19

Yeah , it's definitely . I always get

22:21

a little chuckle anytime I see it from like Holland

22:24

or the Netherlands and even

22:26

like my little , like one of my best

22:28

friends , greg Parrish , who I met actually

22:31

in bootcamp and he ended up being the

22:34

. He made our first intro song . He actually made the first

22:36

five , six intro songs . He became

22:38

like our go-to music guy because he produced

22:41

, he was doing a lot of deployments

22:43

himself and I used to just give him like

22:45

short box promo , like a hat , a shirt

22:47

, whatever we got , and he would wear it and

22:49

at bases and he would meet other nerds right

22:51

. It was kind of like a calling card , like if you knew what the

22:54

shirt was or cause we would have the infinity

22:56

gauntlet . You know , he would spread the word

22:58

too . So for a while I was getting

23:00

a lot of , or I was getting plays in like Saudi

23:02

Arabia and Nandoa and all of that and it was

23:04

like , oh , that's Greg's work right there .

23:06

It's so fun when you do a little marketing push and

23:08

you can see it and you know exactly where

23:11

it came from , Whether it be like the

23:13

day that a big promotion drops or

23:15

you're looking at the stats , you're go . I know

23:17

when it's Saudi Arabia , I know where we got those

23:19

listeners from .

23:21

Maybe the most proudest promo or , you know

23:23

, just thinking outside the box in the sense

23:25

of getting the word out

23:27

and , you know , doing it via the show was

23:29

there was a stint from 20 , let's

23:31

say like 18 , 19 , where

23:34

we were doing so many live shows

23:36

. We were like our first one was done

23:38

at the Museum of Science a history

23:40

here in Jax . They had a the science

23:42

of superheroes exhibit and I

23:44

talked them into letting us do like a live

23:46

show and that was our first one . And then , like

23:49

a few months later , we did a live show at a comic

23:51

shop , cause it was like this makes sense , why haven't we done this

23:53

before ? And then we did started

23:55

doing like the live shows at movie openings

23:58

, like we would team up with Sunray Anytime they had a

24:00

Marvel movie . We'd offer to , you know

24:02

, intro the movie , do some giveaways and then do a

24:04

live show right after . And I gotta

24:06

say those were probably some of the funnest times

24:08

of doing the podcast and all

24:10

10 , 11 years doing that run

24:13

of just . It felt like live shows once

24:15

a quarter and they were so thrilling

24:18

, right , just like being in front of like

24:20

a live audience , and

24:22

I know that played a big role in getting our name

24:24

out Cause then people could put you know the

24:27

faces to the voices , and that was awesome .

24:29

I just did an interview with Tom Buck . He

24:32

kind of talked about the crossover between

24:34

being a teacher and being able to see

24:36

, like , what resonates with students and what doesn't

24:38

, and how . That translated to him on

24:40

YouTube and it sounds like you're kind of saying the same

24:42

thing . You were a podcaster and then the live

24:45

shows you got to actually see the energy

24:47

in real time from your audience .

24:49

Yeah , and you feed off that so

24:51

well and you know you get like a second , third

24:54

win . I don't know . You get like energized in

24:56

the moment when a joke hits and you've got like a

24:58

group of you know an audience laughing and

25:00

reacting , it's

25:02

all . And then you know the ability to also

25:04

play off the audience and have them involved

25:07

too . Like I think a majority of our shows we would

25:09

do a little Q and A and you know let them

25:11

know like hey , you're going to be on the show next week and

25:13

of course people get excited . Now they're sharing

25:15

the show , telling their friends and you

25:18

know it was just all around beneficial . I

25:20

mean a lot of prep work in the sense of like

25:22

really making sure that your outline was

25:24

on point , cause now you know you can't run over

25:26

the time . If you got 45 minutes , you

25:29

got 45 minutes Cause now you've got like staff

25:32

involved . You know they got to shut down the building and things

25:34

like that . So having a very it was just like it

25:36

really pushed us to like perfect our

25:39

chemistry , perfect the show , and

25:41

I I bet you there's a . I bet you I could finally

25:43

find a correlation between the quality

25:46

of shows and our chemistry , pre

25:49

and post . You know that the live shows

25:51

.

25:51

You've also been doing quite a bit recently with

25:53

TikTok and Reels and YouTube shorts

25:56

. What is those experiments looked ?

25:57

like I'm going to tell you this . I think it's just

26:00

because of how long I've

26:02

been editing . Editing

26:04

, I think it's said to say for a lot of podcasters

26:06

that you know do everything for their show . Editing

26:08

is always , like you know , that's a tough part , right

26:10

, like sitting down , and Especially

26:13

when you're as OCD

26:15

as I am about certain things that

26:18

can be very time-consuming , that can feel like

26:20

you're just stuck in this void . Granted

26:22

, I've found ways to like really improve

26:24

it , make it faster and have a lot more fun with

26:26

it . Cutting promos

26:29

in video , especially for social

26:31

clips , is so it's

26:33

been a fun . I can try new things , different

26:36

graphics . I'm also looking at like I

26:38

watch a lot of YouTube channels as well , seeing

26:41

, like what they do , how it works , incorporating

26:43

that on a much smaller scale as well , and

26:46

I found that , like our growth too , you

26:49

know , has definitely benefited

26:51

in the you know download stats

26:53

and you know , new listeners coming

26:55

from you know , especially like

26:57

TikTok for myself , matter of fact

27:00

, I met someone over the weekend when

27:02

I was at recording some interviews

27:04

at Free Comic Book Day . This

27:06

guy , I was walked up . I was like , hey , can I interview

27:08

you ? He was like I'm gonna say no to the interview because

27:11

I'm shy as hell , but I just want to say I came across your

27:13

content on TikTok . I love it , keep on doing what

27:15

you're doing and you know it made it so worth it

27:17

right , like , whenever you get one of those , it

27:19

makes it so worth it and I just

27:21

I genuinely have fun listening to

27:23

an episode . You

27:25

know , and making that Having made that a

27:28

part of my process really felt seamless Because

27:30

you're listening back One . You already know what your outline looked

27:32

like . As you wrote the outline , you also lived

27:35

in the moment of recording the podcast . And

27:37

then there's this third layer of like listening

27:40

back and like making notes . And

27:42

you know , even when I'm recording

27:44

, sometimes I know a moment is a clip , sometimes

27:47

I'm like I'm gonna make sure this is like

27:49

a promo . I cut and

27:52

you know , and I think it . Just you know , obviously

27:54

we don't do a lot of live shows now , but I feel

27:56

like using TikTok

27:58

and making the reels and videos is

28:00

like giving us a certain personality , insight into

28:03

like who we are , like putting faces to the voices

28:06

. You know like , yeah

28:08

, I think it's an interesting tool and I highly

28:10

recommend , you know , more people utilize , you

28:12

know , promos and things like

28:14

that for their podcasts . I know it's benefited us big

28:16

time .

28:17

Are there other marketing strategies that you've played

28:19

with and at one point you're doing some ads . Did

28:21

that ever turn into anything ?

28:23

So it could either be one of two things . I

28:26

am a big believer in

28:28

running ads on

28:30

podcast platforms Because one

28:32

thing about like that TikTok

28:34

or that interaction , for example , there's

28:37

no way that I could have correlated

28:40

the two , right , like the success of a

28:43

certain video or something meaning how

28:45

many subscribers you know , there's no way for me to be

28:47

of this pinpoint where that guy Would

28:49

video . Finally , you know , got him to

28:51

check out the podcast , etc . But

28:54

so I don't run

28:57

a lot of ads on , like social media , unless I'm doing

28:59

like a giveaway or when we were doing live events

29:01

, I would always , like you know , boost the post

29:03

to push and make sure people came out for the live

29:05

show , etc . But I'm a big advocate

29:08

and believer in buying ads in podcast

29:10

platforms like Overcast or Podcast

29:12

Addict , even Buzzsprout

29:14

. I've purchased a few ads on Buzzsprout and

29:18

to me that

29:20

is a good use of money because by the

29:22

end of the ad most of them run for like a month

29:24

, right , you get to see like a

29:26

direct correlation of here's how many subscribers

29:28

, here's how many people saw your ad , clicked it and

29:31

then decided to subscribe . And

29:34

you know , on average I've gotten from

29:36

, you know , low end 20 to high end of like 32

29:38

. And when you think about it , that's like man

29:40

, that's to pay money

29:43

to just run an ad and get some subscribers

29:45

. I mean , it's not a lot of . You

29:47

know , it's not rocket science , it's not a lot of work , but

29:50

I do think it's probably the best use

29:52

of your money if you're looking to like , really push

29:54

and promote and , you know , go about

29:56

that means of marketing because

29:59

it's because once again , you're

30:01

going right to where your audience is

30:03

. You know , like I know , that

30:05

comic shops work because you know that is my niche

30:07

. But from a general standpoint

30:09

, you know , this is where podcasters are . Like

30:12

you're not on Overcast or Podcast Addict

30:14

If you're not . You know , if you don't listen to podcasts

30:17

, that just doesn't make any sense . But you could be on

30:19

TikTok for any other reason , right , it's

30:21

not , it's a little too wide , you know . So

30:23

just kind of going in on a focused route .

30:25

There were years that the only way you could get somebody

30:28

to listen to your podcast because

30:30

most people weren't listening to podcasts yet try

30:32

to pull up the Apple Podcasts app

30:35

on their phone and be like all right , this purple

30:37

app like click it and we could search for

30:39

anything that you want , and they're like well

30:41

, they're like for free , like they expected

30:43

to have to pay , and you'd pull up in a show and

30:45

say here's mine . You not only had to overcome

30:48

the hurdle of you would want to listen to this

30:50

particular show , but also to overcome the hurdle

30:52

of I don't have any idea about why

30:54

I would listen to a show . I've already got

30:56

the radio , I've already have music and you're trying

30:58

to sell them on a whole new medium . The

31:00

benefit of using podcast apps

31:03

or advertising on other podcasts is these

31:05

are already podcast listeners , so they know

31:07

. Step one is done and

31:09

now all you have to do is say , hey , this second

31:12

show , this is a show that you might

31:14

be into .

31:14

Agreed 100% . And you just brought back

31:16

some flashbacks of basically

31:20

playing tech support early

31:22

on in those podcast days , like meeting people

31:24

, them saying , so what do you

31:26

do ? I'm like , oh , I do a podcast and I'm like , what is that

31:28

? Oh , you know that purple

31:30

icon on your iPhone that you've probably have

31:32

hidden or you've tried to delete . Yeah

31:34

, this is what it does . And you know , like walking , I vividly

31:37

remember walking people through podcasts where

31:39

the dad told my dad about

31:41

it . He was like , oh , what you know ? Even like

31:43

for the longest time I had to , I just told my

31:45

mom you know , mom

31:47

, it's Sunday . I'm going to go record

31:49

my talk show . My radio show

31:51

is what I would call it , because it was the closest

31:54

thing that made sense for her that she could wrap

31:56

her head around . You know what I was doing

31:58

. But , yeah , I've

32:01

had a lot of luck with . I try to run an ad , you

32:03

know , once a month . I look at that as an extra

32:05

boost . Like , really , the hard work to

32:07

me comes into , you know , establishing a brand

32:10

online and you know cutting those promos and

32:12

then those reels and those videos , and you

32:14

know , to me that's fun . The ads

32:16

to me is just an extra boost . You know , if I've

32:18

got the disposal income , I'll run an ad

32:21

for a month . You know , try to get some new subscribers

32:23

, hope they stick around . But when you

32:25

look at the cost I think the cost per

32:27

click , you know , for running an ad

32:29

it's like it comes out to be a

32:31

pretty good deal .

32:33

Do you justify that because

32:35

you're having a ton of fun podcasting , or

32:37

is it that you can kind of see on the back end

32:39

I'm putting money in and then I get

32:41

money out on the monetization side ?

32:43

I don't know if it's too much on the latter versus

32:45

the form I think I have . Obviously I , you

32:48

know , love podcasting . I think

32:50

I'm a little crazy at this point about it . I don't know

32:52

what I would do without it . I don't know if I can

32:54

correlate or justify sometimes a return

32:56

on investment . I don't know how many of our

32:58

patrons you know Patreon subscribers or

33:00

paid listeners came from those

33:02

ads . I think there's just a sense of

33:04

like maybe . I

33:06

don't know , maybe blind hope of , like you know

33:09

, if you know one

33:11

Patreon subscriber out of you know these hundred

33:13

of subscribers is , you know , is

33:15

enough , but I think it

33:17

really just falls into that . I do enjoy podcasting

33:20

, I do enjoy like having this brand

33:22

and , you know , having these loyal listeners

33:24

and I'm just looking to continue

33:26

growing it . And you know , if they become , you

33:28

know , if I get a return on investment or I get a paid

33:31

subscriber , then awesome . But it's not . I

33:33

don't think it's my , you know , most immediate goal

33:35

when I buy an ad . I think , for at this point

33:37

it's like you got to , you got to get the word out how you

33:39

can right yeah you absolutely do have to get

33:41

the word out .

33:42

I love the way you think about monetization because

33:44

, on one hand , you have monetized a handful of different

33:46

ways and we should get into all of those . On

33:48

the other , you took five years

33:50

before you ever monetized and you were doing

33:52

this for the joy of it and you were getting a lot

33:55

of like non-monetary benefits

33:57

from the podcast . I know you probably

33:59

won't bring all of these up , but like you've had to interview

34:01

some really cool people , definitely

34:04

built a name for yourself in the local

34:06

community , but also large , your comic

34:08

book community . You have to do a TEDx event

34:10

. There's lots of events now where

34:12

the short box has some kind of presence

34:14

, because you've been doing this for 10 years . So

34:17

when you continuously show up , you

34:19

start to get some cool opportunities .

34:21

Yeah , well said , I think at some point I

34:24

just realized that you know I

34:26

wasn't going to be

34:28

, you know I wasn't going to get rich off this , I don't , you

34:31

know and it was going to take a lot to

34:33

replace , like you know , my day-to-day

34:35

job and you know for me to take that jump

34:37

. So I kind of just settled on

34:40

you know . All right , well , if I'm not going to make

34:42

a bunch of money on this , at least

34:44

let me cover my costs of what I , you know

34:46

, paid to actually run a podcast and

34:48

let me focus on opportunities

34:50

. Right ? If I can't , if I , if I can't

34:52

get a bunch of money , then let me just focus . That was

34:54

never honestly about money . To your point I

34:57

was . I had been podcasting five

34:59

, six years before I even decided

35:02

to launch . I think I'd be launching a Patreon in 2017

35:05

or something like that and it

35:07

was only because , at that point , we

35:09

had built such a loyal fan base that

35:11

were looking to support us in some

35:14

way . We had no merch , I think we had like a T

35:16

Republic or something like that but we

35:18

had no like means of like people giving

35:20

us money or supporting us financially and

35:23

eventually , one of our listeners a good friend

35:25

of mine , nick Wagner , who

35:27

runs a very successful he's a super

35:29

smart business guy . He runs a really successful

35:32

tattoo shop . He

35:34

even owned the comic shop I used to work at

35:36

at some point . He was a huge fan of the

35:38

show , always a big , like , a huge advocate

35:40

, always like our biggest champion . And one

35:42

day he was like dude , stop playing

35:45

around , set up a Patreon

35:47

so people can like support , like we want to support

35:49

. He was like I remember saying I think I speak

35:51

on behalf of the short box nation . We want to

35:53

support you guys , let us give you our money

35:55

in some way . So I just , you know

35:57

, once I got over like , okay , well

35:59

, now I'm asking people for money . You know , am

36:01

I gonna get heartbroken if it's , you know , like one person

36:03

? I kind of brushed all that through the side

36:06

and said , just let it happen . If someone

36:08

supports or wants to give us their money of their own , free , will , awesome

36:10

, launch the Patreon . We had like I

36:13

want to say , like 20 people sign up within

36:15

like the first , like half a year

36:17

or something like that . So it was like , oh man

36:19

, this is okay . Well , let's

36:21

see what else we can do . And then we eventually started

36:23

like thinking outside the box of like oh , this , you

36:26

know , this cause , ashley and Ed

36:28

are both artists . I was like , well , let's go out and create like

36:30

unique prints , let's

36:32

posters and things like that that

36:34

people can support , you know , to have like a piece of

36:36

the short box . So

36:38

there was that , but

36:41

mainly it opened up just the

36:43

doors to a lot of different opportunities . Right

36:45

, like I was already going to comic

36:47

conventions . Well , I started just reaching

36:49

out to people that would book the guests

36:51

and asking like , hey , can I help , you

36:54

know , run a panel or host a panel ? All

36:56

I ask in return is I just get , I get

36:58

to keep the audio recorded , right . So now

37:00

I'm thinking of , like , well , opportunities that'll

37:02

also just feedback into the show

37:05

itself , kind of like , you know just this

37:07

machine , so I would . Now I was getting invited

37:09

to things like comic conventions

37:11

to host panels with creators

37:14

that maybe I maybe didn't have a shot

37:16

with or they're not very into , like you

37:18

know , doing interviews . Well , now there was a means

37:20

of me getting interviews and content to

37:22

feedback into the show . And now

37:24

people are wanting to support like , oh , let me sign

37:26

up for the Patreon , help these guys out , you

37:28

know , upgrade the equipment , cover , like , their

37:30

travel costs , because I know I'm going to get you

37:32

know something , you know , cool content

37:35

in return . But yeah , between , like the

37:37

comic conventions , you know , being able to speak at

37:39

TEDx , I think once I realized that I

37:42

wasn't just a podcast host but

37:44

I could , I could apply those same

37:46

skills of facilitating a conversation

37:48

, having a good time , like you know

37:50

I , to your point , like I started thinking

37:53

more so as a brand you

37:55

know myself as a brand I was like , well , I could take these

37:57

skills anywhere that needs someone to hop on

37:59

a mic , like I've been doing it over 10 years . How much different

38:01

could it be in front of a person ?

38:02

So , yeah , thinking , having that mindset

38:05

, you know , thinking outside of the box of just seeing

38:07

dollar signs , but , you know , seeking

38:10

opportunities that would just boost the

38:12

brand and the podcast itself was

38:14

you know , huge Cool thing about the Patreon

38:17

is that somebody else told you to set it up , because

38:19

I think there's a lot of podcasters who

38:21

don't set up a Patreon or that don't set up a

38:23

Buzzsprout subscription because they think there's

38:25

probably nobody else . Nobody really wants

38:28

to give money to it and I'm gonna feel weird if I

38:30

start asking On the other side as

38:32

a listener , like one of my favorite shows

38:34

a few years ago just stopped and

38:36

the two of us were like , well , we're not making any money

38:38

, Doesn't seem like this is going anywhere

38:41

. So I don't really know why we'd keep doing it

38:43

. The whole time was thinking I should

38:45

reach out to them and tell them hey , set up a Patreon

38:47

, set up a way that I can start giving you money , because

38:49

it was 45 minutes once a week where

38:52

I was cracking up and I was having a great time

38:54

and I thought it was amazing . And now

38:56

that thing has disappeared I would gladly

38:58

pay $5 a week for that .

39:00

When you look at the costs that you're asking

39:02

someone , I think once I got

39:05

over that initial kind of awkward

39:07

thing of like hey , you know , can we get

39:09

like some money to help us out ? It's a very time

39:11

consuming . You know , I think once you just started becoming

39:13

honest and confident too , of like , look , and

39:16

at that point I had a little more clout to stand

39:19

on right , it's like guys been doing this five

39:21

, six years . You know , obviously it's

39:23

costing us more money too to produce the show

39:25

. We want to make sure we give me the best quality . So now you're thinking

39:27

about equipment , hosting fees

39:30

and just the time itself , right , like the time

39:32

I'm spending editing we

39:34

all are sorry doing the podcast

39:36

editing , coming up with ideas and just the

39:39

energy you give to it . I guess I just stopped

39:41

feeling bad about asking for

39:43

. You know , I think our highest tier at the time

39:45

was like nine bucks and then I eventually bumped it down

39:47

to seven . You know , it's like seven , five

39:49

bucks , even two bucks a month . I

39:52

guess I just got over like I was like

39:54

you know what ? I'm just gonna put it out there and

39:56

it's a free show anyways . You can always skip

39:58

it too If you want . You can skip my you know my

40:01

shameless plugs and just go on to the main stuff

40:03

. It's never gonna stop , you know , you from enjoying

40:05

the show . But I think , just having a confidence

40:08

in the product that you're putting out , if you know you're putting out

40:10

a good product , no-transcript

40:13

to ask for a little help . You know , financial

40:16

support to keep the lights on .

40:18

Adam Curry is the co-founder

40:20

of podcasting like the actual podcasting

40:22

spec , co-founder of podcasting

40:24

2.0 , which is trying to innovate on the podcasting

40:26

spec and move podcasting forward , and the pod

40:29

father and he also started this thing called

40:31

value for value . And it's just hey , I'm

40:33

giving you something , you get it for free . There's

40:35

no obligation , there's no string attached

40:37

. If you get some value , you determine

40:40

what that's worth for you and then you can give that value

40:42

back . It's such a positive thing

40:44

to do because for some people $2

40:46

is a lot of money . There was a period

40:49

in my life where if I was giving $2 a month

40:51

to a podcast , that would have been really tight . But

40:53

now if I'm going oh , $5

40:55

, $10 a week for my favorite show

40:57

, of course I would do that . Allow your audience

41:00

to set the price Like what value

41:02

are you getting from this and what is it worth

41:04

to you and what's appropriate , and

41:06

allow your audience to come alongside

41:09

you . That's why I was so excited when we built

41:11

Plus Brow subscriptions , because you just turn

41:13

it on and you don't have to do anything else and

41:15

all that happens is if people want to do

41:17

it , then they can give you money . If no one wants

41:19

to do it . You never have to think about it again . You

41:21

just move on with your life .

41:23

Agreed , agreed , and I think also just

41:25

having the security of

41:27

a full-time job took a lot of that pressure

41:29

off too , where I got to just have a little fun

41:31

with it , like making jokes about

41:34

supporting , just like making it a little more fun

41:36

. It didn't feel like I was pressuring

41:38

any of the listeners , we just had a good time and

41:41

a lot of self-defeating humor that goes

41:43

into us asking for money , but

41:45

we also made

41:47

it really worth it . That was something that

41:49

was like I had a hard

41:51

time wrapping my mind around when I first launched a

41:53

Patreon . It's like always questioning

41:56

if it was worth it to anyone . Like

41:58

am I putting out enough bonus episodes

42:00

? Are they getting these episodes early ? I'm promising

42:02

early access . I'm telling them they'll

42:04

get this . Like I was the

42:07

first couple of months of that Patreon launch . It

42:09

was like it was a lot of pressure . I was

42:11

putting myself through a lot of pressure

42:13

of trying to think of

42:16

, you know , a little bit of doubt

42:18

, but also like thinking about things that

42:20

maybe I didn't need to , yeah

42:22

, overthinking how people felt about the content

42:24

we were putting out . But our numbers

42:26

had never dropped and I think I started

42:29

like doing surveys and I was like , hey , you

42:31

guys getting enough bonus episodes ? And they

42:33

were . And I think some of the sponsors I got

42:35

was like I'm almost getting too much content

42:37

for you guys . I'm gonna keep up and

42:39

you know , I'm just kind of trusting in . I

42:42

think I started just trusting myself a little more

42:44

. I'm putting out quality content . I

42:46

think the people can see that this is not a cash

42:48

grab and just kind of believing

42:50

in the audience that I built up , that they

42:52

knew where my heart was at .

42:54

Yeah , the two to $7 a month . Cash grab

42:56

doesn't ever seem to

42:58

pay off .

43:00

Well , I'll say one guy I remember well

43:02

, one of our listeners was like he was like dude

43:04

, I'm paying this much for this podcast

43:06

here and they haven't put anything out in like months

43:09

. And I'm trying to keep up with what you're

43:11

putting out .

43:11

Yeah , so that was really good . Another thing and I

43:13

think this was probably how we first got connected

43:16

that you did in 2018

43:18

, I think you started Jack's Podcasters

43:21

Unite , which is the local Jacksonville

43:23

chapter , the Jacksonville Meetup Group

43:25

of podcasters . What got you to start

43:27

that ? It was April 2018 .

43:30

And it was myself , life Bromleaf

43:32

, and we had a I call them our hidden third

43:34

member . You know like in very rich political

43:36

families , there was always like that one black

43:38

sheep , son that they're like we'll pay you to , like

43:40

stay out of the cameras .

43:41

That is our Ryan Paul Thompson . It's like the third Bush

43:44

son and you're like , oh , I know about the two

43:46

, what ? There's a third , ryan Paul .

43:48

Thompson , being that Me and Life always joke . He's like

43:50

a black sheep child . It's like Ryan let us give

43:52

this . But no , ryan was kind

43:54

of like an advisor . And I remembered talking

43:56

to Life because obviously she's been podcasting

43:58

for a long time , almost as long as

44:00

I have and I remember I had this idea

44:02

, like I think that another meetup

44:05

series that was called the Artist , local

44:07

Jacks Artist Meetups and it was like you know , graffiti

44:09

artists , painters and stuff like that

44:11

. And I remember thinking like man , I wonder if

44:13

I started meeting more podcasters

44:15

like here and there . You know , it was almost like a secret

44:17

club . Oh , you do podcasts . Oh , me too

44:20

. We'll check out , you know this and that . So I just had an

44:22

idea , like I wonder if I just put the call out , like

44:24

gave us a location to meet up , a time and date

44:26

, who would show up ? And we did our first meetup

44:28

in April 2018 at it's

44:30

now closed , but it was space 42 , huge

44:32

gallery , and like it was this warehouse , plenty

44:34

of space . I put the word out . I think I did like a Facebook

44:36

event page and the turnout was so

44:39

overwhelming . I remember being in that

44:41

moment and it was like you know , we had a sign-in sheet

44:43

and we ran . I only had like printed two sheets

44:45

I think it was like either one or two and we ran out

44:48

. It was like , holy crap , we've got at least

44:50

50 people here . And in that moment

44:52

, that was when the Jacks Podcasts was United

44:54

was born , cause at first it was just like , hey , jacks Podcasts

44:56

meet up here , take place , but at that moment it

44:58

was like we got to continue doing this . We got to meet

45:01

so many people and it was just so refreshing to

45:03

you mentioned , like for podcast listeners like

45:05

that , using apps , you're ready at first base . Well

45:07

, these guys were running home runs already . Anything

45:09

you brought up , like the pains of podcasting

45:12

, the behind the scenes stuff there was like this community

45:14

you could relate to , and I remember like we were asking

45:16

people to come up on the mics and share any questions

45:18

they had and all the questions and things they had

45:21

. It was so cool to see certain hands go up like , oh

45:23

, I can help you with that . Oh , I know exactly how you feel . So

45:25

, yeah , we've been doing that since 2018 .

45:27

And it's crazy to think it's now five

45:29

plus years of doing this and yeah

45:31

, don't ask me to do the math again After I said you've

45:33

been podcasting for 13 years .

45:35

Like it's just crazy to think

45:37

, like the different podcasters we've

45:39

met help people that have come to our

45:41

events without a show and then launched

45:43

one shortly after . It's probably my second

45:45

, you know , aside from like the short box being like

45:48

my baby , the thing I'm super proud of . This is

45:50

a very close second of like building this

45:52

community .

45:52

It really is a wonderful community . Now I

45:54

go and think of how many cool

45:57

and interesting podcasters and just interesting

45:59

people that I've met by going

46:01

to the meetups and it is such

46:04

a refreshing thing . You know , podcasting

46:06

can feel pretty isolating , like it's a one

46:08

way street between this mic and people

46:10

listening . And sometimes they reply , sometimes

46:13

they leave a mean review on iTunes or

46:15

Apple podcasts , but like mostly you

46:17

just don't hear a whole lot back . Everyone's

46:19

like kind of wants to connect and

46:21

at some point your friends and family are tired

46:23

of you saying like I'm trying to figure out

46:25

the gain settings for this mic and you

46:27

then you go to the podcast meetup

46:29

. Someone raised their hand to like I was just testing

46:31

out to script and it's like so crazy

46:34

, but I can't do this anymore . And then

46:36

someone else is like oh no , you actually can do that

46:38

. Here's the setting . Oh , and they get together on a computer

46:40

and they're showing each other how they set

46:42

up their workflows , or people are letting

46:44

each other borrow gear so that they

46:46

can get a recording and see if they want the gear

46:49

. In the end , like the reason we're doing

46:51

all this stuff is to connect and

46:53

it's such a joy to be able to go

46:55

to these meetups and connect with other podcasters

46:58

, so I'm out of the Buzzsprout team .

47:00

We really appreciate getting to go to these and

47:02

it's a big honor to have you guys so involved

47:05

. Like I'll never forget the day that me

47:07

and Blythe were sitting on the couch planning

47:10

something for the JPU

47:12

and I think at that time

47:14

I still hadn't converted over to Buzzsprout

47:16

or something like that , or I was still hosting it on I

47:18

don't know something weird and I remember she had scrolled

47:21

to the bottom of an email you guys sent and

47:23

she was like , hey , come , take a look at this

47:26

, is this a Jacksonville address ? And

47:29

just being able to read that day that we reached out

47:31

and all that , it's been great having you guys as

47:33

partners . And I wanted to say , in regards

47:35

to just like the overall

47:37

exuberance about

47:39

the meetups , it always

47:41

seems to come at the right time , to

47:44

your point . Podcasting sometimes

47:46

it feels like you're in a silo , like no one else gets

47:48

it , it's

47:50

just you . And those

47:52

meetups always seem to arrive when I need

47:54

to be reminded about , like , why

47:57

I do this or why I love this medium

47:59

. I'm burnt out . I'm feeling

48:01

burnt out . I wanna put the podcast on break . I

48:03

feel like no one is in on this , and

48:07

then I'll go through these meetups and

48:09

hear other people also . They're

48:11

going through that and they have solutions or

48:13

they're giving you a supportive leg . It's

48:16

always like a breath of fresh air . It always like rejuvenates

48:18

and reenergizes me to like keep

48:21

going and try new things . And

48:23

also like it just reminds me how

48:25

much I love the medium that you can find

48:27

a show for every , or a topic

48:29

, or a show for every topic . Like the amount

48:32

of like sports , podcasts

48:34

, self-help and all that

48:36

. It's like wow , this is so cool that there's

48:39

so much diversity in this medium .

48:40

There really is Just to kind of give you

48:42

a little bit of a tidbit on the Buzzsprout

48:44

side Blithe starting her podcast

48:47

with us . So for people who are watching , potter's

48:49

girlfriend and co-founder of

48:51

the Jack's podcast , who unite group Blithe , was

48:54

on the radio in Jacksonville for

48:56

a few years and had a show called

48:58

Helmets and Heels . It was women talking about

49:00

sports . I heard the show and

49:02

knew who she was from that and one day

49:05

this is probably 2018

49:07

, where I'm going . You know , Buzzsprout

49:09

is small enough that I'm still going through and

49:11

looking at when people sign up . And then

49:13

I see Helmets and Heels signed up and I'm

49:15

like , oh my gosh , someone is obviously ripping off

49:17

this show . And then I

49:19

see the email address and everything associated

49:21

with it and I went , whoa , we've arrived . Like

49:23

people are people that I know

49:25

are now using Buzzsprout . So it was a very cool

49:28

moment for us as well . Potter , thank you so much

49:30

for taking the time to hang out with us and

49:32

kind of tell us what you've learned over

49:34

10 years of podcasting . If there was one

49:36

thing you could give to a new

49:38

podcaster , someone who still has not launched

49:40

, what piece of advice would you give them ?

49:42

Aside , from , just do it . I will say

49:44

be a fan of the medium first

49:47

right . Like , listen to podcasts like

49:49

you know , have a favorite

49:51

. You know , make it a part of your routine . Because

49:54

when I look back at when I first started those

49:56

first couple of podcasts the Walts

49:59

podcast on the side hustle , the

50:01

Juan Ep Hip Hop podcast and Fat

50:03

man on Batman I took a little bit from

50:05

all of them and I really like

50:07

structure the show based on . You

50:09

know , those elements that I liked from these shows

50:12

. You know the way they interviewed or this segment

50:14

, and that was my structure for a while and

50:16

then eventually I got my own legs underneath me and

50:18

I , you know , got my own confidence and , you

50:20

know , had a different vision and I just , you know

50:22

, tweaked them and made them my own

50:25

. So I'd say , like , listen

50:27

to podcasts , become fans of podcasts

50:29

and , you know , take from your favorite

50:31

. You know I'm gonna butcher the same

50:33

. You know , like all great artists steal . You

50:36

know , don't be afraid to look

50:38

at another show and how they're doing it . Obviously , you

50:40

know , put your own flair on it , but don't

50:42

be afraid to look at another show when you're first

50:44

starting out and , like , incorporate

50:46

the things you like I think when you start seeing

50:48

how other shows do it and you know , when

50:50

you appreciate the variety and

50:52

where you could go , I think it's very inspiring

50:55

and kind of takes the pressure

50:57

off from having to build , like you

51:00

know , this show Cause now you , you know you're

51:02

incorporating certain elements and at some point

51:04

you know if enough dedication

51:07

and longevity is

51:09

gonna become your own thing . So I think when

51:11

you're first starting out , you know look to

51:13

other shows that you enjoy and ask yourself

51:15

what do I like about them ? How can I make

51:17

things my own ? And you know , kind of

51:19

have that as an outline .

51:20

That's great advice , potter . Thank you so much

51:22

for spending this time with us , and we'll have to get

51:24

you back for a round two , it sounds awesome .

51:27

Thank you so much , Alvin Beautiful

51:32

.