0:00

When you feel really compassionate about something,

0:02

I feel like it is important to share it.

0:04

So when you feel really good about something

0:06

that you feel like is important to you, I

0:08

think there's other people that will find deep

0:10

value to it. And I also

0:13

think that it's so important

0:15

to give yourself time, and this is, I'm

0:17

telling this to myself, I'm telling this to anybody

0:20

to be okay with giving yourself time because

0:22

good ideas take time.

0:37

welcome to podcasting in real life, the

0:40

Buzzsprout show where we dive into the real life stories

0:42

of podcasters in the middle of their podcasting

0:45

journey. I am your host Travis

0:47

Hall Britain , head of content at Buzzsprout. Now

0:50

you won't hear anyone famous on these podcast

0:52

episodes. Instead you'll hear

0:54

everyday podcasters just like you, share

0:56

personal stories about how podcasting

0:58

has impacted them and the things

1:01

that they've learned along the way. And

1:03

in today's conversation, I got to sit down with

1:05

the host of the witches muse,

1:08

Tara Burke. And

1:10

one of the things that I really appreciate about Tara

1:12

and her perspective is that she's very

1:15

cognizant, very aware that

1:17

she wants to go at her own pace. And

1:19

this is a mistake that I see so many

1:21

podcasters make, is you start to play

1:23

the comparison game. You start to wonder,

1:26

well what if I was like this podcast

1:28

or why aren't my downloads as many

1:30

as this other podcast? And it's so easy

1:32

to compare ourselves to other people

1:35

that are in totally different situations. And

1:37

you know, we make the joke of, you know, what

1:39

would your expectations be if you are Oprah

1:42

and launching a podcast versus doing

1:44

something because you love it. And I think it's just a

1:46

really helpful mental exercise for all

1:48

of us to make sure that we're staying grounded and

1:50

what's really important. But then she also shared

1:52

some really practical strategies that she

1:54

uses specifically how she uses

1:57

Instagram to connect with guests

1:59

that are going to be a good fit for her podcast.

2:01

And so while many

2:04

podcasts have success with Facebook and email

2:06

and contact forms on websites, she's really

2:08

uses Instagram quite effectively. And so

2:10

she shares how she goes about doing that.

2:13

And there's definitely some great things you can take from

2:15

that. But Tara got started

2:17

after she had a dream and

2:20

the name of her podcast became crystal

2:22

clear.

2:24

It started in a dream. I literally

2:27

had a dream and it was

2:29

a really interesting for me,

2:31

I'm very into names, so

2:33

I think names really speak to

2:36

where things can be formed or where

2:38

creation can really come from or even

2:40

my creative mindset. And

2:43

in some ways that can make a little bit more of a challenge

2:45

because sometimes it's nice to just muse on

2:47

the ID and the name comes and they even

2:49

mentioned that in some ways of when you're creating

2:52

a new project or starting something new. But

2:54

for me, the name the witches muse came

2:57

and I felt really inspired by it. It this

2:59

kind of underbelly tone, like

3:01

things that weren't necessarily kind of in this surface

3:04

level wave. And I really loved

3:06

the idea of the Muse because

3:08

at the end of the day, the Muse

3:10

is I think inspiration that happens

3:12

internally. But it also is

3:14

reflected by just your experience.

3:17

So how you see other people, your

3:19

conversations you have in nature or in

3:21

your community or in your day to day, even

3:24

something that comes to you in a dream, which for me,

3:26

they kind of really translate a lot

3:28

together. And so I was

3:30

really excited when this

3:32

dream came and then the name

3:35

came and I will

3:37

met . Like most folks, the name kind

3:39

of goes back and forth. It's like some days I'm

3:41

like, yes, this name is so amazing. And

3:43

other days I'm like, is this the name?

3:46

Should this be the name of the podcast? And so

3:48

that's when I kind of actually know it's a good thing.

3:50

And by good I mean like it's actually working me, I'm growing

3:53

from it cause I'm not like, Oh yep

3:55

, that's just totally comfortable.

3:57

It's like I kind of liked that. I actually have to have

3:59

my conversations around it. It keeps me coming

4:01

back. So started in a dream

4:04

and then became an

4:06

idea. And I've

4:08

really liked to talk, as

4:10

many of you who are listening may know

4:13

or if you've listened to the podcast, you may

4:16

realize that is, I'm very into

4:18

conversational and having just

4:20

being really, I would

4:22

say genuine and intentional

4:24

with how I talk to people and in the ways I talk

4:26

to people. And so I

4:28

wanted a way to share that. And I've

4:30

always been a creative, I've always thought of

4:32

myself as creative. And so the

4:34

idea of a podcast, it

4:37

felt so natural and exciting.

4:39

And so when those things line up, when you're like, this

4:41

doesn't feel like work, don't get me.

4:44

There's elements of all, a lot of work

4:46

as I learned being a podcast

4:49

newb so to say, I mean I've had my for a

4:51

year, so that's kind of a trajectory, but almost been around

4:53

for a year. June will open the

4:55

year anniversary. And so that

4:58

being said, it just, it's really important

5:00

and the name means a lot. So. Well.

5:02

And how long did it take for you

5:05

to launch your podcast after you had the

5:07

idea to figure out, this is the kind of

5:09

podcast I want to do, this is how I plan on

5:11

approaching it. You mentioned before the

5:13

interview that you actually work with somebody else to

5:15

produce the podcast. So how did all of those

5:17

pieces come together? Yeah,

5:19

totally. So I am a systems

5:21

thinker by trade and folks that might know systems

5:23

thinking is like, I love seeing big pictures

5:26

and how they come together and it really helps

5:28

me support. I'm also working

5:30

collaboratively, so I've also been

5:32

someone who at a point

5:34

in my life was like, I could do it all by

5:36

myself in that voice exactly.

5:38

Like I'm going to do it all by myself

5:40

and it's gonna just be me and this

5:42

like almost like pseudo facade

5:45

that I was taking on. And

5:47

that was, this is the first time

5:50

in a while. And I work actually in a lot of collaborative

5:52

frameworks, but it's the first time in a while in a creative

5:54

project that I was like, I'm

5:57

gonna just like expand what's possible.

5:59

And I, because I don't have the skills,

6:02

it's okay to see and be

6:04

supported by that. So I

6:06

worked with somebody to kind of figure out, and I'm still

6:08

getting used to this name, but the branding

6:11

of the podcast and I'm still getting used to the word

6:13

brand and just what it is to

6:15

market something and make it accessible.

6:17

And I'm looking at this point to

6:19

frame my idea and my conversation

6:21

and my relationship to marketing on how

6:24

I can get it into the hands of folks that

6:26

need the medicine to the podcast . That's how I'm trying

6:28

to approach branding is in this way of like

6:31

if I'm making it accessible

6:33

enough or easy to

6:35

and comforting and just inviting to

6:38

connect with, then it'll get to

6:40

more people that want to , that want

6:42

to be able to experience the podcast. So I worked with

6:44

her and I think it was about

6:48

January to June because I launched it on the solstice June

6:52

21st and I worked with

6:54

her pretty extensively on just the

6:56

look and the feel. And she helped actually

6:58

pretty exclusively with the Squarespace

7:00

that I now take over. But the front

7:02

end of a lot of that design work was hers

7:05

as well as like kind of developing a little bit of a header

7:07

and a logo and figuring all that

7:09

out. But then she didn't have

7:11

any experience actually creating

7:14

a podcast like from start to finish.

7:16

Like how to actually once the website

7:18

is built with it. Cause I felt that that was really important to

7:20

have a space other than just like

7:23

the portals or the platforms to host

7:26

where people can find more information. And that's

7:28

also where patron kind of comes on later. And I'll

7:30

get into that. But so

7:32

yeah. So from there I then

7:34

learned all of the backend of how it makes

7:36

to kind of create that like the cover arting

7:38

how to make the transfer for the

7:41

RSS feed, how to make sure that

7:43

those are seamless, noticing

7:45

that if you misspell something, it

7:48

will come up and the iTunes misspell.

7:50

But you know, these things that you don't think are

7:52

happening that do. And then in terms

7:54

of my audio, so my partner

7:56

Nathan Trowbridge have clear productions

7:58

based out of Eugene, Oregon, his audio

8:01

and sound by trade. So He's been audio

8:03

engineer and a sound

8:05

designer since he was, you know,

8:08

in high school. So it's been almost

8:10

a decade plus and it's his

8:12

profession, it's what he does. And so I

8:14

really lucked out in that. So I have

8:16

someone who really does what I'd like to say. My backup

8:18

house works. They helped me mix and master

8:21

and edit and I have some ability

8:23

to do that. But it's been a really great dynamic

8:26

in us because he really takes it

8:28

and elevates it and is able to put the music

8:30

and actually all the music that we

8:32

have for the first kind

8:35

of for the intro and for the outro. So we

8:37

have both an intro and an outro, which will probably

8:39

actually change for the next season. But

8:41

um, his all his own original music

8:44

too. So it's been super fun

8:46

for him creatively cause that's really what he likes

8:48

doing and also been just interesting cause

8:50

he has a completely different ear than

8:52

I do around what sounds

8:55

and what sounds not good

8:58

cause that there is, there is what ads

9:00

I've learned and we've also learned

9:02

in terms of interviewing, because I'm primarily

9:05

an interview show, I'm working

9:07

on adding some new components and the actually

9:09

do have a couple of components where it's

9:12

just myself and on some episodes

9:14

it's just me but mostly an interview show

9:16

because I really like interviewing

9:19

people and asking questions.

9:20

So when you think about good

9:23

audio quality, there's, there's a bunch of stuff I want to dive

9:25

into but I first want to ask you like your

9:27

approach to audio quality

9:30

as a podcaster because there's certainly

9:32

like an extreme on both side. You can spend

9:35

tens of thousands of dollars and have it sound

9:37

like you were in beyoncé's recording studio. And

9:39

then the other side of it is, you know,

9:42

taking a cell phone call in a subway.

9:44

So like where did you decide to land

9:46

on that and what is your setup like and what

9:48

do you do with your guests to try and help them get better audio?

9:51

Just kind of walk me through that.

9:52

Yeah, totally. So I'll irst start

9:54

with my setup. So I have what I'm having

9:57

a, I have a Bluetooth

9:59

Snowball Yeti, Mike and I have basic Sony headphones.

10:01

I actually purchased the headphones

10:03

from Sweetwater and the Bluetooth

10:05

was just online. And my irst thing was to actually

10:08

do research. I like

10:10

to call them either mother Google, like

10:12

ask your mom or ask mother Google or

10:14

ask the

10:16

University of Google. Cause at this point, and especially

10:18

if you're in my, I'm late millennial, but

10:20

if you're in that age range, the Internet is like

10:23

such a vast instrument of knowledge

10:25

and it can be such an an in many ways

10:27

it can be a great tool. There's also ways that the internet

10:29

can be harmful, but in many ways can

10:31

be a really big tool. And so for

10:33

me, yeah , and I'm getting back into this

10:35

now again, so much of the beginning

10:37

was kind of the researching of what's the best

10:40

tools, well, not sacrificing

10:42

sound, but also not like breaking budget.

10:45

You know, as we look to expand

10:47

and notice that as we want to

10:49

expand our patrion cause that is something we're

10:51

looking to work more into and it's just

10:53

really about the amount of time I spend to do it.

10:55

Expanding equipment would be, yes,

10:58

something I want to work into, but headphones

11:02

and a Mike now something that I did

11:04

in the beginning, which was really whimsical. I

11:06

think I was super optimistic. And also

11:08

again, I'm very into accessibility.

11:10

I'm really into making things

11:14

readily available for people. I'm also

11:16

into really honoring the folks that

11:18

come on and you know,

11:20

most podcast hosts may know this depending

11:23

on, again, their reach and their engagement.

11:26

They reach out to hosts and

11:28

if they have a bigger show than it's a really big benefit

11:31

for the person who's coming on for the interview. If

11:33

they're just starting out like myself, like I'm

11:35

still just starting out and I'm

11:37

very intentional and genuine with my

11:40

answers and how I reach out to people. But they're

11:42

still coming on for free and using

11:44

and it's their time and their energy

11:47

that they're doing to put into to being here.

11:49

And so I used to, this was

11:51

like the irst, probably like ive

11:53

to even episodes is that actually

11:55

when folks didn't have Mike's , cause some folks

11:57

they could have huge and I'm talking and

12:00

I usually use Instagram as a pretty big platform.

12:02

They could have huge followings, you know, on

12:04

Instagram but not have access to

12:06

just like good recording like,

12:08

and so that means I would be subject

12:11

to something from the computer

12:13

with headphones or something,

12:15

a computer without headphones, which for me is

12:17

like there's just, I couldn't, it's just

12:19

so hard to listen to. There's so much noise.

12:22

Even just a pair of headphones I

12:24

think at least allows the guest

12:26

who's being interviewed and you to have some amount

12:29

of this like focused

12:31

concentration on like how you're talking

12:33

the way you're talking. So

12:35

that felt really important. And so I would,

12:37

I used to send like little mikes

12:40

and sometimes they'd be like wenty bucks to

12:42

the person being interviewed because I wanted

12:44

them to have like a good experience

12:46

to like know what it's like and have a tool

12:48

and so it was almost this offering that

12:51

I'd send out to people. They'd be like, Hey, okay,

12:53

you don't have a mic , let's kind of figure that out.

12:55

And so I would just buy these kinds of simple

12:58

mikes . And I did that irst

13:01

and that felt that felt really

13:03

good to offer that set up . And

13:05

you know sometimes depending on

13:08

the time of day I

13:10

have buffer screens. I have kind of like a

13:12

basic screen that I can put around. And

13:14

then in terms of the audio production

13:17

he has similar and I'm connecting

13:19

with Travis over video has a similar set

13:21

up where there's lots of padding and stuff,

13:24

which is interesting because part of me is like maybe I

13:26

should record there more, but I just

13:28

haven't found a need. If I'm

13:30

close enough to the mic and the individual

13:33

is ne having clear connection.

13:36

Again, if I record off of zoom,

13:39

which I do, I record wo part, usually zoom

13:41

in Garageband, as long as their Wifi

13:43

is good or they have a good connection,

13:45

I can usually the zoom recording

13:47

can be great. So if all else fails, cause

13:50

some people even connecting

13:52

to garage band , you know, can

13:54

be difficult. And so I'm learning kind

13:56

of does audacity make more sense

13:58

and maybe it does as an easier, more

14:00

translatable platform, especially with zoom

14:03

as we were talking about previously, those

14:06

kind of choices of how you're

14:08

making your guests feel the most comfortable

14:11

to step into this space. Especially that the

14:13

things that I'm talking about, some of them are just beneath

14:15

the surface. So, so much of what I talk about our stories

14:18

beneath the surface, but you don't

14:20

want them to be like agitated

14:22

because things don't work and now

14:24

they're freaking out that they don't work. And so they come

14:26

into the conversation like kind of

14:28

already ungrounded. You want to make it as

14:30

easeful as possible. So I've learned a lot

14:32

along the way in that of my set up

14:34

. But the biggest thing that I would offer

14:36

is, you know I would say headphones and a

14:39

mic and a pretty solid platform,

14:42

so like how you're recording yourself

14:44

or your guests and just kind of getting

14:46

that dialed in and then the way that you're making your

14:48

guests or whoever you're

14:50

talking to. If you do decide to have the interview podcast

14:53

feel the most comfortable, like even

14:55

like an email beforehand or something that's going

14:57

to set them up for success is really

14:59

all you need. Fancy recording equipment

15:01

would be sweet. Like if I were to have ne thing,

15:04

it would probably be, and

15:06

I had this, but I

15:09

had this thing where I could connect it and the snowball,

15:11

Mike would come off and it would be like a swivel,

15:13

but it doesn't connect to my desk. I'm like,

15:16

well I'm not getting rid of this awesome desk

15:18

so I have to like I have this chair

15:21

that could maybe work, but it just is so

15:23

it's funny. So I do actually have a pop,

15:26

I think they're called pop filter. There are filters

15:28

that go over here that could actually

15:30

really help with sound. Now, if

15:33

my partner knew that I was doing

15:35

this podcast with an amazing podcast

15:37

platform like Buzzsprout and

15:40

this is how it was doing my set up , I

15:42

would probably get a little bit of

15:44

in trouble. Right. So

15:47

you know, we have different styles. You know, I wanted

15:49

this to feel natural and I also

15:51

think it comes in again, it's up to there . I think the

15:53

host to make the guests really feel like they're

15:55

set up for success. And Travis like pleated

15:57

such a great job making it feel easeful for me.

15:59

So I appreciate that. But yeah that's like a

16:01

little bit of how I set up and I just

16:04

don't think, like you said

16:06

the subway thing, I would never, I

16:08

would just be like just reschedule. Just

16:10

find a different thing. Cause there's no, for me

16:12

I think we're already so connected to are

16:15

like mini computers I. E. Like our

16:17

smartphones that for on the go stuff.

16:20

And I know there's some really great

16:22

kind of hand recorders and I used , I was

16:24

looking in ne of those for like podcasting

16:26

on the go, but those babies, I'll

16:28

run you , you know, ive

16:30

hundred even hundred ight hundred dollars for those

16:32

really amazing hand recorders that are essentially

16:34

used for like reporters in the field. So

16:37

if I was like really moving a story

16:40

or a season towards which

16:42

is muse on the road and I felt like capturing

16:44

that type of audio, it would be really important.

16:47

And again, there's a lot of actually podcasts

16:49

that do a really good job of kind of capturing

16:51

external sounds. They make you feel

16:54

like you're in the atmosphere

16:56

you're in. Like I really liked that. It reminds me of

16:58

like any Anthony Bourdain show that you see,

17:00

you get the kind of other sensory

17:02

sounds that really captivates you, that

17:05

would be great. But for this kind of purpose of this

17:07

conversational and less kind of documentary

17:09

oriel kind of piece, the simple setup

17:12

I think works really good.

17:14

Yeah. And you mentioned too , your

17:16

focus is, you know, do

17:18

what you can to get good audio

17:20

quality, but then really emphasize

17:22

helping your guests feel comfortable. Specifically

17:25

if you want to have an interview where you

17:27

have authentic conversations,

17:29

where you're asking them to really be vulnerable

17:31

in a lot of ways. So I'd love to hear

17:33

your approach to how you find

17:36

people that would be good guests for your podcast and

17:38

then how to get them into a conversation

17:40

and help them feel comfortable to open up and really

17:43

have a great interview. Like how do you, how

17:45

do you go through that process with your guests?

17:47

Yeah, so this really important for

17:50

me and I still am working

17:52

to refine this process. I think

17:54

because there is parts of me that

17:57

know because my conversations are so,

17:59

are so conversational that

18:02

sometimes people can feel lost. And like

18:04

I listened to that as my own internal

18:06

feedback to be like, what?

18:08

And in what ways can I reframe and change

18:10

that? And so I started out in the beginning

18:13

of this because I have a tendency to

18:15

be a circular talker. I talk in circles

18:17

and I think that's okay. I'm not necessarily

18:19

a linear thinker, so I don't really

18:21

think from this kind

18:23

of really beginning, middle end, I kind of

18:25

can jump around. And so for myself,

18:28

the outline was a way for me to stay structured

18:31

and really honor the structure to

18:33

help support listeners. And so

18:35

what I did is I used the framework

18:37

around the major Arcana and the major Arcana

18:40

are the beginning cards in the Tarot

18:42

and there's wenty two cards of them and they're all,

18:45

you know, loosely based, I think in archetypal

18:47

wisdom. So they're universal symbols.

18:50

Like people can connect in ne way or

18:52

another to like the archetypal understanding

18:54

of the card. So you know , there's so they don't have to

18:56

be specific necessarily

18:59

to a person. And so

19:01

for me it felt really important

19:03

to use that

19:05

as like a guiding principle. So

19:07

I began with the irst looking

19:09

at the card that I was on, so I'll use

19:12

the card that I did. I did wo cards,

19:14

but the irst card that I did was the fool.

19:16

And I love that. That is the irst

19:18

episode. On the podcast and

19:20

it's my irst ever episode

19:23

of a podcast and it's just,

19:26

it feels sincere and it is

19:28

almost just so lovely to know

19:30

cause every time you start something new it's

19:32

like you're as prepared

19:35

as you believe you're going to be

19:37

and you're as ready as you believe

19:39

you are. And so much is on the belief

19:41

of yourself that like hey, you're taking a

19:43

really scary risk and you're trying something

19:45

new and if you mess it

19:48

up like that's okay cause we don't really

19:50

learn by doing things perfectly all the time

19:52

no matter what society might think that we have to do it right.

19:55

So that to me was really

19:57

important. Finding that outline and then

19:59

from there in terms of finding my guests

20:01

again, the platform that I find myself most

20:04

on and most connected to specifically

20:06

for like my time in my life, my experience

20:09

and really just in terms of content that I

20:11

follow or information that I gather

20:13

other than books. And actually podcasts

20:16

is Instagram. It's a great

20:18

community collective. I

20:21

am still part of the generation that grew up

20:23

with dial up internet. I had the whole

20:25

like where I can't make the sounds,

20:28

I'm like I could try. That would be really painful for

20:30

other people. But the whole dial

20:32

up tone, you know in the use of that, I grew

20:34

up in an era without smartphones . Like

20:36

I am in this really interesting,

20:38

I feel really grateful to be reflective on

20:41

the part of my experience

20:43

of the generation of growing up before that.

20:45

But I also was on the threshold

20:47

of Facebook and as I've gotten

20:49

older, I still use it in many ways

20:52

as a platform. But I think

20:54

sometimes in the terms of reach and the way that I'm trying

20:56

to connect with people, I don't

20:58

know if it's fully, you know, serving

21:00

and I'm still trying to find ways to incorporate that.

21:02

I know, you know the last podcast that I listened

21:05

to off of your show, they have an amazingly

21:07

successful, you know, Facebook group.

21:09

And I'm also looking like to the type of folks

21:11

that are really interested in listening to their shows

21:13

and how that might be reflective of that. And so

21:16

Instagram is a way that I find a lot

21:18

of people, you know, I look at a lot of people

21:20

that I'm really inspired by and

21:23

that kind of just happens naturally. Like you find

21:26

somebody page that you're really interested in and then it

21:28

just grows and then you find another

21:30

person that they may even know and that just

21:32

grows. And there's a few folks that

21:34

I knew previously that I felt really

21:36

called to have on the podcast. So ne

21:39

story that I would have that I feel

21:41

inspired to tell is jewel Gomez

21:44

. And so jewel is a

21:46

black queer lesbian science

21:49

fiction writer and

21:51

was part of the stonewall riots in

21:53

ew York, which is like if you have

21:55

any conversations around LGBTQ

21:57

history that is just super

21:59

informational and super informative

22:02

to the culture and specifically

22:04

around that era. And she's like eventy

22:08

four eventy five and I actually know

22:10

jewel because she is

22:12

relatable in my family. She

22:14

is my aunt's oldest sister's

22:17

wife. And so there were these moments

22:19

where I knew that I wanted to have jewel

22:22

and she actually ended up doing the

22:25

death card, I believe. And so

22:28

just to speak to that card was

22:30

really awesome. I felt like she,

22:32

when I met her, we were talking at a wedding

22:35

and I was like, I really want you on the podcast.

22:37

You know, there's some people where you just know

22:39

you want them and there's just this moment. And

22:42

then having the card as

22:44

this kind of rough outline or having a theme,

22:46

I would say if anything throughout to kind

22:48

of weave us through, even if they're not

22:50

necessarily fully all about

22:52

the card. Right? Cause I go back and forth with saying

22:54

like, this is a Taro podcast and it's also

22:56

so much more so just allowing sheet.

22:59

They just like, without not even a breath

23:01

between, they were like, yeah, I'm going to do the

23:03

deaf card. And I was like amazing. Because some people,

23:06

they're just like, they're , they have a few cards that

23:08

move them, you know? And then other times

23:10

when I choose to invite people, which

23:12

I always message through, just depending

23:15

again on their, what platform

23:17

they use the most. I message usually through Instagram

23:19

and I ask what their thoughts

23:22

are of being on a podcast and I've gotten notes

23:24

and it's not like I feel defeated, it's just like

23:26

that's not some people's way of stepping in.

23:28

I've gotten folks being really excited

23:31

and also like, but who would want to listen to

23:33

me, which also for me tells them that

23:35

they'd actually be great guests.

23:38

Because I think when people see other

23:40

people taking risks or taking steps

23:42

in sharing what their gifts

23:44

are in the world and what they do, it actually makes

23:46

an impact for anyone listening. And

23:49

so that felt really important to me.

23:51

So yeah, I asked through email and then the conversation

23:53

flows. And then in terms of researching

23:56

my questions, that is probably my

23:58

most enjoyable because again, a lot

24:00

of it is like sometimes their only

24:03

reference point is Instagram. So some people

24:05

just have an Instagram that they have cultivated

24:08

and a lot of their stuff is there. So sometimes

24:10

a lot of that is me and I take it actually

24:12

away from the smart phone and you can actually

24:14

do Instagram. Lo and behold on your computer.

24:17

It's very like kind of a weird system,

24:19

but it's easier for me to read

24:21

like captions and then kind of take my time

24:23

and look. So I'll do some research there.

24:25

And then a lot of people of course have websites. And then

24:27

if you're Joel Gomez, like if you're literally

24:29

going to Google Joel Gomez , I mean her,

24:32

ne of her main mentors was Audrey

24:34

Lord . And you know, if you know anything about

24:36

feminists like writing philosophy,

24:39

anything, you're going to know that name.

24:42

And so yeah, that was a mentor

24:44

for her book. She wrote a book

24:46

called the Gilda stories jewel did.

24:48

And it's probably been in print hirty

24:51

five plus years. I mean, it just like just,

24:53

I think experience. It's a very longstanding

24:55

publication and written in like, you

24:58

know, so many different languages, which I think is awesome,

25:00

but books can continue to be important

25:03

thoughts for us in society. So, yeah,

25:06

that's kind of my process and

25:08

offering as much against support as I can

25:10

leading up. So a couple of days before or

25:13

at the very least the day before trying

25:15

to give them an outline, I actually like to give

25:17

people questions before. Sometimes

25:19

that happens, sometimes life happens and it's

25:21

the day of they received the questions. Sometimes

25:23

the people didn't even read the questions right and

25:26

they're like, oh, I haven't had a chance to look them over. But

25:28

I love to like give people some

25:30

understanding of what's there for them.

25:32

And some people really like take

25:35

on the questions and are thoughtful

25:37

in terms of just like pre preparing and some people

25:40

aren't. I mean it doesn't, I don't

25:42

hold anybody to saying they have to prepare.

25:44

I just like, again, if we're going to go into

25:46

this space, I would say beneath

25:48

the surface it's a , it feels important

25:50

for people to just feel comfortable and grounded

25:53

in talking about it. And

25:55

you know, we also go off the cuff. So sometimes

25:57

the question will lead into another question,

26:00

you know, but we try to continue to kind of spiral

26:03

back into the archetype, into

26:05

the wisdom and the outline of the card, why

26:07

it's important and yeah, go from

26:09

there. And that's really, that's really my process

26:12

from beginning to end. Extremely

26:14

thorough. Well I know I'm

26:16

very thorough. I talk, oh, I mean, yeah,

26:18

I like to talk. If you'd like to

26:20

talk to you, you're in good company. Everyone

26:22

listening to this loves to talk. Otherwise you wouldn't,

26:25

you wouldn't get into podcasting, you know. No . ne

26:27

thing I wanted to ask you about was

26:29

how you kind of see yourself

26:32

in the season that you're in with your podcast

26:34

and the growth that you've experienced so far

26:37

and what your plans are for the future. Cause I know it's

26:39

very common for podcasters to get that

26:41

imposter syndrome to be like, who am I to

26:43

do

26:43

this thing or to have people listen to

26:46

me. And I think you have a really unique perspective

26:48

on kind of how you approach that and giving

26:50

yourself permission to take your

26:52

time and to not feel like you have to compare

26:54

yourself to other people's journeys. But

26:57

really just chart your own course. So I would just love to hear

26:59

kind of your thoughts on how you think about, you

27:01

know, dealing with that imposter syndrome and having

27:03

confidence in yourself.

27:05

Yeah, well it's a everyday

27:07

job, you

27:10

know, cause there's like moments and I

27:12

think anybody who begins

27:14

to step into podcasting. And

27:16

for me, I really find it a deep passion.

27:19

I would love to see the possibility of

27:22

continuing to , and again,

27:24

it's like, I don't want to say that I'm not professional

27:26

in the work I do because what I try to offer, I try

27:28

to make sure that it's polished and I

27:30

try to move through these channels of expanding

27:33

and marketing it. And

27:35

there's also so many hours in the

27:38

day. And if I were to try

27:40

to compare myself, and

27:42

this is, I think the thing when I compare

27:44

myself and I can just take, I'm going

27:46

to go deep. I'm going to say like Oprah's

27:48

podcast, I'll just use that as an example.

27:51

Big Show , big reach. But I'm just going to use out,

27:53

I'm just going to use out breath cause why not? You

27:55

know she has a

27:57

team. I mean I'm talking,

28:00

I would probably say ive

28:02

to en maybe even who knows

28:04

how many people Oprah has,

28:06

right? So there is Oprah, right? And then there are all the

28:09

other people that support Oprah and

28:11

the reality is is Oprah's

28:13

coming on. But she's had so

28:15

much space to literally know that her sole

28:18

job is to arrive

28:20

at the mic . She's got her questions.

28:22

I'm sure she talks about some of the content, but

28:25

like all the post-production, all

28:27

the marketing, those in itself,

28:29

I say them like their little notes, those wo

28:31

things are actually huge breaths.

28:34

And that was something that, you know, Nathan and

28:36

I, my partner who does

28:38

the audio and just the kind

28:40

of the post production stuff realized

28:42

really early off. And I also

28:45

realized in my kind of excitement

28:47

for getting this idea out into the world

28:50

and how important it is to when you feel really

28:52

compassionate about something, I

28:54

feel like it is important to share it. So when

28:56

you feel really good about something that you

28:58

feel like is important to you, I

29:00

think there's other people that will find deep

29:02

value to it. And I also

29:04

think that it's so important

29:07

to give yourself time, and this is,

29:09

I'm telling this to myself, I'm telling this

29:11

to anybody to be okay with

29:13

giving yourself time because good ideas

29:15

take time. Like

29:17

good stuff, good content,

29:20

like good ideas take time.

29:22

And I think we,

29:25

again, good side of the Internet

29:27

shadows out of the Internet, shadow side of

29:29

the Internet, things are literally

29:32

being placed on the Internet every

29:34

single econd. So on the amount of time we've had a podcast

29:37

on been talking, there's been like, I

29:39

don't even know how many podcasts that have just like released

29:41

an episode. Like there's just so

29:44

much information in the world

29:46

today and to like allow

29:48

myself to feel defeated by that ne,

29:51

doesn't feel like it serves me to

29:53

continue to put my work out there and

29:55

it just then almost makes it harder

29:58

for me to even get workouts . So I'm,

30:00

I'm noticing that I'm listening into

30:03

the type of content. So really trying to

30:05

create more powerful content and give it

30:07

some time. I did mention that

30:09

I'm in this myths of this kind of revisioning

30:11

in this rebrand. So for the econd season coming

30:14

out and this new bold way actually

30:16

feels so good and so exciting

30:18

to work on that. But it's taken time. I

30:20

think we started, I mean it's going

30:22

to be pretty much almost a year

30:25

instead of like ix months. So what I did

30:28

is I launched a website, figured

30:30

out content, began recording episodes,

30:32

did post-production, started marketing

30:34

in ix months. And I'm sitting back and being

30:36

like, how did I sleep?

30:39

What else did I do? And so

30:41

I also learned a little bit of the value

30:44

because the ne thing I didn't do is I didn't batch episodes.

30:47

So if you again have a team

30:50

like, and I'm talking and for me

30:52

when I think of team I think of at least

30:54

enough our to ive I'll go back to

30:56

sports day, like at least ix, ix sounds

30:58

like a stellar team for totally

31:01

manageable as well. But you have

31:03

a team to help support that weekly

31:05

updating. Amazing. So you're

31:07

literally on their recording, then you

31:09

send it into post production. Then you have someone

31:12

who's your content creator, like literally who's helping

31:14

give that to the necessary channels and let

31:16

folks know about the work you're doing. Amazing.

31:19

When you're a wo person team. I

31:21

literally, like I say I take front of house,

31:23

you know stuff. So I'm speaking, I'm doing the

31:25

interview but then I'm figuring out, you

31:28

know, how the marketing

31:30

is the way to talk about the episodes,

31:32

the way to figure out, you know, are there ways

31:35

outside of ads

31:37

to generate something because

31:39

again, podcasts are free, which is something

31:41

I really love about them. And with,

31:44

you know, the, ne of my

31:46

things that I think has the most value,

31:49

like not a thing, not

31:51

any, it's time. Time is priceless.

31:54

It is the most like expensive

31:57

valuable thing. It almost has no

31:59

price tag time because it's just something

32:01

that like once it happens you don't

32:03

get it back. It's just a, you know, yet there's

32:06

limitless time like we could go on that spiral.

32:08

But it's like that to me feels really important.

32:11

Like what I , how and the ways I use my time.

32:14

And so for me I've gotten really

32:16

good at noticing

32:19

the time when I feel like a podcast needs

32:21

for release and ideally for me, and this

32:23

is also going back to the way that I listen every

32:25

other week feels so manageable

32:28

now there has been moments,

32:30

and again this is just the result

32:32

of having a wo person team where like that just

32:35

hasn't been possible because we're

32:37

managing other things. We live

32:39

and work and play like other

32:41

ordinary people. And again, the podcast

32:44

isn't my main focus and not to

32:46

say that I'm not passionate about it. Like, I don't

32:48

think because it's not my main way of generating

32:51

income in a financial way means that I care

32:53

less about it. I think that's like a huge

32:56

like misstep and people's assumptions.

32:59

Like just because I'm not like

33:01

fully investing my entire ive,

33:03

ix, whatever figure income, which it's

33:05

not that, but that income on

33:07

a podcasting means that for some reason my

33:10

podcasting is less valued. I just think that's,

33:12

again, I think that's a really easy way

33:15

to choose not to step into doing

33:18

something you love being like, oh well

33:20

if it can't be like all of these things

33:23

like I e if I can't get to Oprah level,

33:25

like instantly or if I can't, you

33:27

know what immediately kind of shoots us back down

33:29

to maybe not even starting at all.

33:31

Some great ideas basically end

33:34

before they even arrive, right? Like

33:36

they just don't even come out because

33:38

they're kind of shunned away or shoot or whatever.

33:40

So the way that I've kind of focused

33:43

on that is ne good things

33:45

take time. Like just that I would

33:47

just say affirmation or way of connecting good things

33:49

take time. It's okay to not

33:51

be in a hurry to reframe the idea

33:53

of rushing. Cause like I say, I think we're

33:56

in a society that has infinite information

33:59

and infinite amounts of time and there's always

34:01

gonna be someone doing more. There's always

34:03

going to be doing something doing in your eyes,

34:05

quote unquote. And I do air quotes better.

34:08

And so I think it's this opportunity to sit back

34:10

and reflect on myself and being like, what

34:12

actually is going to be helpful for

34:14

me and getting this information out

34:17

in a way that feels good for me and

34:19

hopefully also good for someone else. I

34:21

also recognize, and I will say,

34:23

and maybe this will change if I go

34:25

up to like a million views

34:28

overnight because of Buzzsprout , which would be sweet.

34:30

Maybe it'll change my ability to

34:32

connect to people ne

34:35

on ne ne cause when someone just writes

34:37

a review or when someone literally

34:40

talks about me having a podcast or when someone

34:42

who will like I know, I don't

34:44

know, says that they listen to the podcast

34:46

and I get to hear that. Even like walking

34:49

around, like I live in a smaller town, I live

34:51

in Eugene, regon. It's kind of a small city.

34:54

I get to mentions the podcast

34:56

, it's so affirming and

34:58

it's not like giant people.

35:00

It's not like this big thing. You know,

35:03

being Oprah would be epic. I mean, hey,

35:05

Oprah is amazing. And she's also

35:07

like, how long has Oprah been

35:10

in broadcasting? Like

35:13

I'm gonna go on the in at least wenty plus

35:15

years. I might even go on longer than that. Like

35:17

she has been in the game for

35:19

so long. So I think that's the other thing

35:21

with information age and with

35:23

the way that we receive information is we just

35:26

think that the, the path

35:28

or the journey to get there as like small

35:30

and just, it's become like, now I am

35:32

this and then all of a sudden I'm famous or

35:34

whatever. Now I'm this and all of a sudden I have

35:36

a thousand million views. And

35:39

so for me it's just getting myself

35:41

really clear on how I'm presenting the

35:43

information, having fun, learning the channels,

35:46

being an everyday learner. Like

35:48

I say like even with Buzzsprout, I love

35:50

bud sprout because they send emails

35:53

constantly around just like podcasting

35:55

tips and it's like

35:57

being a forever student. It's like going to a , once

35:59

again I say mother Google or like Google

36:02

University, it's like going to podcasts university because

36:05

there's literally so many articles of like ways

36:07

to make your podcast better ways to engage

36:09

this. And so for me it's just

36:11

an opportunity to continue learning

36:14

and not to be like I've made it. I'm

36:16

good now. What? I

36:18

like to have more exposure of

36:20

course. What I'd like to have more people on the patrion

36:23

pledging as much as they're hree

36:25

dollar latte cause that's our beginning pledge. And I always

36:27

say that it's like literally like a cup of coffee.

36:30

Of course I would love that. And it's also

36:32

just like now my end all be all. If ne

36:34

person, ive people, en

36:37

you know, can listen to the work, it's totally

36:39

worth it. It's totally made my

36:42

time right. Which again has

36:44

no price completely valued.

36:46

And so for me that's where it

36:48

becomes like an important just to mindset

36:50

to just check in with myself and know that good stuff

36:53

takes time.

36:54

I think that's a great perspective and I think it's , it's

36:56

so easy to get caught up in moving the

36:58

goalposts. It's like as soon as you accomplish

37:00

what you wanted, it's like all of a sudden

37:02

it's not good enough anymore. Now you have to be

37:04

dissatisfied. So I think that's a great perspective.

37:07

Just loving the journey, being patient,

37:09

having perspective I think is really valuable.

37:12

Now I wanted to ask you about kind of your

37:14

goals or where you see the podcast going in the future.

37:16

Cause you did a lot of branding work up front,

37:18

had your website put together and

37:20

then you've kind of figured it out even

37:23

more like what you're trying to create and what you're

37:25

trying to build. So w like

37:27

where do you hope the podcast goes in the future?

37:29

Or like what are you trying to build on a larger

37:31

scale for the next several years?

37:33

Yeah. Oh, I love this question because

37:35

like I said, I'm like, I love big dreams

37:38

as like, I mean don't quit your dream

37:40

job. I mean that's what I'm saying. Like don't get

37:42

like, just kind of keep dreaming for me,

37:45

I'm always like that because people are like, don't quit

37:47

your day job. And I'm like, don't quit dreaming because at

37:49

the end of the day it's like we don't

37:51

have to settle for anything. I don't

37:53

really think that's true. There's circumstances in

37:55

life that make it necessary for us to move

37:57

through and like sacrifice things. But I

37:59

don't think we have to necessarily like

38:01

quote unquote settle, which is why for me,

38:05

so my grades is , I can do, like I'll

38:07

do a few visions and I'm like totally the like

38:09

in ne year, in wo years, in hree

38:11

years, and I'll just do like ne in ive

38:14

maybe or ne in hree. So in ne

38:16

year I'm going to have had the

38:19

beautiful rebranding and evolution of

38:22

the witches Muse and be able

38:24

to have some more extended

38:26

offerings. So I also have been

38:28

an intuitive terror reader for

38:31

ive or ix years. I also read

38:33

and interpret dreamwork as well

38:35

and do kind of individual counsel

38:38

sessions, like checking in with people on

38:40

an individual and personal level. You

38:42

know, without being on

38:44

this lens of like coaching at at the

38:47

end of the day I feel like I'm actually just listening

38:49

to what you're already saying and just

38:51

helping people reframe those

38:53

into deeper questions of curiosity and

38:56

change. And maybe that's coach. Again,

38:58

it's words like coach and brand that I'm like, I

39:00

just don't know. Coaching is like coaching

39:03

is like athletic, weird, athletic trauma.

39:05

There's just, I don't know about that word. So or

39:07

cheerleading, maybe it's ne of the others.

39:10

So the irst year it would be just

39:12

to expand into other offerings. So, so much

39:14

of me is getting comfortable with the idea

39:16

of but which is music as a movement.

39:19

And I have a friend Angie of Afro

39:21

Yoga who is episode ight

39:24

of the Strength Guard , amazing and

39:26

is doing amazing things in Sacramento

39:28

and is also my supporting

39:31

me. Once again, they're supporting me with my

39:34

kind of rebrand and my re-imaging for this.

39:36

Just really modern mystic and just

39:38

beautiful. Look that I'm just,

39:40

it feels elegant and also

39:43

easeful. There's just lots of things that I like about

39:45

it. And so hoping to

39:47

just expand those offerings

39:49

more into which is music as a movement.

39:52

So expanding the Terrell , you know, telling

39:54

more people about what I do, offering that

39:56

and expanding the patrion. So I

39:59

got on Patriot and I think right before

40:01

they made this kind of

40:04

interesting like fee system and I don't,

40:06

I kind of barely glazed over the fee system

40:08

more. It's almost like you have to pay to play

40:11

a little bit more. And I could be wrong reading into

40:13

that, but there was like, I

40:15

was grandfathered in and this was like a

40:18

year plus ago. And then patron I think is continued

40:20

to grow and excel cause it's a great platform

40:23

for any folks that are looking to

40:25

put some monetary value, have

40:27

some way of hopefully,

40:30

and this is again the strategy of

40:32

using their content in

40:34

a deeper, more reflective way and offering more

40:37

for ne would say like bigger fans are fans that

40:39

want to do more. And I'll kind of mention

40:41

my really awesome pluses with

40:43

Patrion and my non in

40:46

a little bit, but hopefully expanding

40:48

my patrion, you know, figuring

40:50

out, again it's that forever

40:52

students . So just like Buzzsprout offers really amazing

40:55

kind of emails I can poke and check on. Patriot

40:58

is like, it's become such

41:00

an amazing learning platform

41:02

of like how can an individual,

41:05

and also some, again, same thing with

41:07

Patriot on , there are people that have straight teams like

41:09

wow, some of the content

41:11

and the production value that comes out of some people's

41:14

patrons is like amazing. And I'm hoping

41:16

to actually incorporate a little bit more video

41:18

and my stuff at some point, not necessarily

41:21

on like the youtube route but just on Patrion

41:24

and just more visual ways

41:26

other than just audio. So expanding

41:28

the Patriot and feels important, but again

41:30

it takes time. So I

41:32

feel like with Patrion you just have to be really

41:34

mindful of how much additional

41:37

time am I spending to just create more content?

41:39

How much content can I ask

41:41

of my guest? So a really

41:43

awesome offering that I'm leaning into more

41:45

is asking guests for some extended content.

41:48

The idea around a bonus episode.

41:50

I'm still working with what that looks like. So

41:52

what is a bonus episode feature, and I know there's

41:54

like bonus episodes here which feel

41:56

awesome. So just kind of noticing

41:59

that. And again, I can listen to

42:01

your podcast to talk a lot about that too.

42:03

So there's just so much information about ways

42:06

to utilize patrion both on

42:08

patron and in just other platforms. So

42:10

if content or subscription

42:12

based platforms you can kind of move with.

42:14

So that's my kind of ne year goal. Focus

42:18

on Patrion expand the which muse as a movement

42:20

with some additional offerings. And

42:23

then my our or ive year plan, I mean

42:25

I would love to

42:27

do like a live podcast recording

42:29

that seems like such a sweet dream

42:31

to go to a conference,

42:34

you know, and I got invited to

42:36

or like won tickets to a conference,

42:39

but it's like you get invited and

42:41

then you win and then you still have to pay all

42:43

of this money. And I'm like, this is

42:45

, I'm not winning anything. What am I

42:48

winning here? I'm winning. Like you

42:50

know, so there's just interesting layers. So

42:52

or finding you know, something more local

42:54

or like if there's something in the northwest

42:56

and that you kind of get to speak on a platform

42:59

because you know the work that I do, I would say

43:01

it's in the spiritual category and

43:03

that can go from so many different

43:05

gamuts of that. But very

43:07

rarely do I see them . Any folks, there's a few

43:09

podcasts out there that talk about the

43:11

intersection of like things that

43:13

are happening, social change, social movements

43:15

and spiritual growth,

43:18

spiritual understanding. So I

43:20

would say spirituality while still being

43:22

and wellness and all that while still being a

43:24

larger growing podcast category.

43:27

It's still a little bit, I would say kind of

43:29

niched in its in its nuanced way

43:31

cause everyone has a different way of approaching. I

43:33

don't know very many people that are doing like

43:35

VR content outline. I know some folks

43:37

that are doing on it with a very strict

43:39

focus on making sure they stay towards the

43:41

card and I definitely

43:44

just continue to say that the podcast is conversational

43:47

irst. Yes, I love information.

43:49

We all do. We're part of that age. I keep saying

43:51

that and I really just, I feel super

43:53

strongly in not wanting to just

43:56

continue to feed people like more, more info,

43:58

more things to write down because while

44:00

that's really amazing and helpful, my

44:03

podcast, I always say it's like great

44:05

for like washing the dishes.

44:07

It's great for folding laundry,

44:09

it's great for, you know, getting

44:11

your kids ready for bed or

44:13

getting your fur baby ready for bed if you

44:16

don't have kids or however you do.

44:18

And it's meant to be something that you can

44:20

do in the mundane dance

44:22

of the life. I like to call it my dance. It's like

44:24

the Monday answer, like doing things that are

44:26

mundane, but you're also dancing into things that

44:28

feel important. And I like that.

44:31

I hope that with a live episode people

44:33

could kind of really see why

44:35

conversations and connecting

44:37

is so important. And sometimes lost

44:40

in the age of information where we're constantly

44:42

just like the next newest thing,

44:45

what to binge watch on Netflix,

44:48

et cetera. You know, there's so many things

44:50

and hey, I totally been to watch things on Netflix.

44:52

Like I'm not trying to say, I'm like not part

44:54

of the, you know, the fold and that too,

44:56

but it's, and it just feels important

44:59

in that conversation to continue

45:01

to come back to connecting in a human

45:03

or at least being to being

45:05

way like it could be other than human.

45:07

You know? It's like connecting with your connecting

45:10

I think is just so important for me here. So,

45:12

yeah, live podcast. So

45:14

if anybody wants to support me in a live

45:16

podcast, I will openly pitch for that. I am

45:19

so excited as you can tell,

45:21

to be on something like that. So yeah, that's kind

45:23

of my like ne and ive, you know, it'd be amazing

45:26

to continue to grow the engagement on Instagram,

45:29

be amazing to continue to grow the

45:31

engagement in general and just get more folks

45:34

kind of consistently listening. And

45:36

so, yeah.

45:38

Well, very cool. Well, I hope all of that stuff happens.

45:41

This all sounds very exciting. It's been a pleasure having

45:43

you on the podcast. Tara , I've got ne

45:45

final question for you and then

45:47

we'll, we'll wrap up the interview here. If

45:49

you had a time machine that could

45:51

take you back to the day before you launched

45:53

your podcast and give yourself

45:55

ne piece of advice, what would you say to yourself?

46:01

I would laugh irst of all, I'd laugh

46:03

at myself. I would say that it's

46:05

as good as you believe it to be.

46:08

It's okay to have it

46:10

not be perfect. That

46:12

I think is my best wisdom to myself.

46:14

Always. Like it doesn't have to be perfect

46:17

and if I really like

46:19

thought about it I'd be like, you know,

46:21

you should wait a little bit longer so you could

46:23

batch all these episodes all

46:25

at once and then

46:27

you could kind of play with how the information

46:30

comes out instead of really, I

46:32

mean talking about podcasting in real life,

46:34

I am like the very prime example

46:37

because we are literally recording

46:39

and then editing in

46:41

like real life and then posting.

46:43

There's not really that much of this long

46:46

wait . So that I think that would be it. It's just

46:48

be be kind to myself,

46:51

don't be hard on myself. Be

46:53

Okay with waiting good

46:55

things, take time and that it does

46:57

not have to be perfect and that it

46:59

won't be. I think that's the funny joke and it's like,

47:01

and it's not going to be perfect. So even if you're not

47:03

okay with that, well, too bad cause

47:05

uh , you're gonna, you're gonna kind of lean

47:08

into that perfectly imperfect way

47:10

of being.

47:13

If you are a modern mystic who

47:15

craves real conversations that are both

47:17

applicable and accessible,

47:20

make sure to check out the witches , muse at

47:22

the witches, use Dot com and

47:25

subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

47:28

Do you wish that could be featured on a future

47:30

episode of podcasting in real life? Well

47:32

, you can. All you have to do is click on the link in the show

47:34

notes to submit your application.

47:37

And if you took something away from the interview today,

47:39

some new strategy technique, or

47:42

does something that you want to implement personally in your own life,

47:44

I would love to hear about it. The easiest

47:46

way to do that, and if you have an iPhone as to leave a review

47:48

in apple podcasts, and

47:50

if you don't have an iPhone, just jump into the buss , sprout

47:53

podcast community on Facebook, and

47:55

then make sure to stick around for the bonus

47:57

episode this upcoming Friday where

47:59

I answered terrorists number ne question

48:02

about podcasting. Well, that's

48:04

it for today. Thanks for listening. And as always,

48:06

keep podcasting