0:00

Daddy gang, I am so

0:02

excited because Ariana Maddox is

0:04

our guest on Call Her Daddy

0:07

Today. If

0:09

you are a fan of the reality

0:11

show Vanderpump Rules, you know exactly who

0:13

Ariana is. You don't need any preface

0:15

to this interview. You're ready to dive

0:17

in. But for those of you who

0:19

may not be familiar and have never

0:21

watched the show, I got you. You're

0:24

I get it. You're stressing out. I

0:28

don't know the backstory. Daddy gang, I got you. I'm

0:30

going to break this down for you so you

0:32

can follow along and also enjoy this episode. So

0:35

here we go. Vanderpump Rules

0:37

is a reality television show that

0:39

is on its 10th season naturally

0:42

with reality shows. There's been tons

0:44

of emotion and drama throughout the

0:47

years. And there

0:49

have also obviously been hookups,

0:52

breakups and

0:54

cheating scandals, which brings me back

0:56

to my guest today, Ariana Maddox.

0:59

Ariana stars on the show

1:01

alongside her former long term

1:04

boyfriend, Tom Sandoval. And

1:06

let me be so clear. When I say

1:08

long term daddy, I don't mean like, oh, they've

1:10

been they've been going steady for a couple of

1:12

years. No, no, no. I mean, they

1:15

were dating for nine years. They

1:17

bought a house together. They have

1:19

dogs together. They were planning on

1:21

freezing embryos together. And

1:23

they plan to spend the rest of

1:26

their lives together. That

1:29

is until Ariana found out that Tom had

1:31

been cheating on her for nearly seven months

1:34

and daddy gang. He wasn't

1:36

fucking some stranger or some chick

1:38

off of Instagram. No, it is

1:40

truly everyone's worst nightmare. He

1:43

was cheating with one of

1:46

Ariana's closest friends and fellow

1:48

castmate, Raquel, a

1:51

huge betrayal, as well as a

1:53

complete and total blindside, but

1:55

also fucking classic, right? The boyfriend and

1:58

the best friend are cheating. Awful.

2:02

This affair has been secretly happening

2:04

the entire time season 10 was

2:06

being filmed. And

2:08

no one knew. But now,

2:10

as we've seen, the news has leaked.

2:13

Everyone is dying to see how this

2:16

drama continues to unfold. Somehow a news

2:18

story is new every fucking week on

2:20

this shit. And we've obviously seen glimpses.

2:22

Almost every single castmate has spoken out

2:24

about this. They have gone on podcasts,

2:27

news channels, radio. I mean, this is

2:30

everywhere. Even CNN and the New York

2:32

Times have reported on this

2:34

cheating scandal. Apologies have

2:36

been posted. Sides have been taken.

2:38

Everyone is extremely shook and extremely

2:40

invested. But the

2:43

one person that we have not

2:45

heard from in long form and

2:47

the most important person that we need to hear from

2:50

for a sit down, in depth interview is

2:54

all Wanna. I

2:56

also want to point out, obviously, this is such

2:58

a noisy scandal and everyone's like excited to hear

3:00

all. I just want to remind everyone, this is

3:03

Ariana's life. This was her

3:05

relationship. This was her best friend.

3:08

And when this happened, at the

3:10

time, it probably felt like her world was

3:12

turned upside down. So even

3:15

if you don't watch reality TV, that's

3:18

okay. Because unfortunately,

3:21

this episode is

3:23

extremely relatable, because it's

3:25

about cheating, betrayal,

3:29

dishonesty, manipulation,

3:31

and heartbreak.

3:34

So Daddy Gang, I'm excited to give you

3:36

Ariana. And I'm excited to give her a

3:39

space to open up and speak about this

3:41

and have a really open, honest conversation. So

3:44

here we go. Let's get into it.

3:49

What is up, Daddy Gang? It

3:51

is your founding father, Alex Cooper

3:53

with call her Ariana

4:00

Maddox welcome to caller daddy. Hi. Thanks

4:02

for having me. How are

4:05

you doing? I'm

4:07

okay. Can you explain

4:10

what the past few months have felt like

4:12

to you? A

4:14

roller coaster. I mean truly

4:17

like the lowest lows

4:19

I think maybe ever

4:21

maybe since my dad died that I've

4:23

experienced and then

4:26

I wouldn't say the highest highs, but I

4:28

would definitely say that there's been like some

4:30

really amazing bright spots and It

4:32

sometimes feels like I

4:34

don't know like a ping-pong match in between

4:36

those two extremes, right? I

4:39

have a tendency to like compartmentalize a

4:41

little bit with emotions. It's

4:43

the Virgo moon in me But

4:47

it's weird because also sometimes when I'm

4:49

like, oh my gosh, I'm doing I'm

4:51

feeling good Like things are really positive

4:53

then people on the internet will be

4:55

like why is she must have not

4:57

cared? They're like mad at me for

4:59

like healing but then they like

5:01

it, you know But that's the thing is it's like

5:04

everyone's always gonna have an opinion about like

5:06

how you should live totally Something

5:08

I want to talk about is like I

5:11

think so many people have had something to

5:13

say for so long about this scandal Like

5:15

we haven't really heard from you about like

5:17

start to finish in long form Your

5:21

thoughts everything that's gone down. So today

5:23

I'm hoping we can like put it

5:25

all into one. You're like, okay Let

5:27

me just let's take a little rose

5:29

a cheers here. We fucking go necessary

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azoproducts.com. That's

7:43

a-z-o-products.com. Can

7:47

you take me back to

7:49

the night that you found out that

7:51

Tom was cheating on you with your

7:54

at-the-time best friend, Raquel? I

7:56

know you were at a concert of Tom's. His

7:59

phone fell out of his head. his pocket, someone handed it

8:01

to you to just take your boyfriend's phone

8:03

and hold it. Take us from

8:05

there. So they had

8:07

like one more song after that. And so I was

8:09

holding like my phone and his phone just kind of

8:11

at the stack. And

8:15

had no like, there's nothing weird about that. I mean,

8:17

we were together for nine years, like me holding on

8:19

to his phone, his, you know,

8:21

his laptop, his, you know,

8:23

whatever is not weird. So

8:26

they had like one more song. And

8:28

then afterwards, I got

8:30

up to go over to

8:32

him and tell him like, good job and

8:34

give him

8:37

his phone back. And he was talking to some other of

8:39

the band members. So he's a little preoccupied, he's a little

8:41

busy. And I was like, okay, and then

8:43

literally, I just in that moment, I was standing in

8:45

the back of Tom Tom. And I just was like,

8:48

I don't know why was just like, it

8:51

felt like I like

8:54

divine intervention or

8:56

something. Because, you know,

8:58

I've always been very hesitant to

9:00

become like the snooper. Because

9:03

I always feel like anytime you snoop in anyone's

9:05

stuff, even if they're not guilty of doing anything

9:07

wrong, you always end up finding something you don't

9:09

want to find, or seeing something you don't want

9:12

to see. And I always feel like

9:14

it's a slippery slope. Because once you look once, then

9:16

you want to let it becomes an addiction. Because I've

9:18

been like that in past relationships. So in this one,

9:20

I was always like, I'm not going to do that.

9:22

And if I ask about something, I will,

9:26

you know, take their word, Tom's word

9:28

at, you know, they sell you

9:31

exactly. Yeah, like I will be someone

9:33

who trusts because I don't want

9:35

to become that version of myself. And

9:37

so but in that moment, I

9:40

just had this thought like this, like, go

9:42

do it, this is like a time

9:44

to do it. And so

9:46

I went to the bathroom at Tom Tom, I went into one

9:49

of the stalls. He

9:51

had not changed the passcode on his phone. So

9:54

I knew and that's the other thing is like we knew

9:56

each other's passcodes, we knew each other's. So

9:59

it felt like if you were going to to be the type of person

10:01

who is going to have an affair or be cheating

10:03

or hiding things, you wouldn't also

10:05

be so readily giving of

10:07

your stuff like that. And

10:11

so I looked in his messages, there was nothing

10:13

weird in his messages, and I was like, okay,

10:15

maybe you're being dumb, you know? And

10:17

then I opened up his camera roll, and then that's when I

10:19

saw what I saw, and I like busted

10:23

out of the stall, and

10:25

there were like some girls in there that were just going

10:27

to go to the bathroom, and I was like, oh my

10:29

God, I'm so sorry. And then because I didn't

10:31

go to the bathroom, and I thought they're going

10:33

to think I'm leaving the bathroom and not washing

10:35

my hands, I was like, I promise I didn't

10:37

pee or anything. And then

10:39

I just ran out of the bathroom

10:41

and went straight up to him, and he

10:44

was like, oh hey, do you want to go smoke a cigarette

10:46

or something? And I was like, yeah, I do actually. And

10:49

it's funny because there's a photo of him that

10:51

I've seen used in articles and stuff, and

10:53

it's from literally the moment I was walking up,

10:55

and his arm's like this. And

10:59

I see that photo, and I'm like, that was

11:01

literally like the moment before. And

11:03

then we went straight out

11:05

to the back behind Tom Tom, and

11:08

that's when I confronted him, what the fuck is this?

11:10

Okay, wait, pause for two seconds. I

11:13

feel like no one is saying specifically what

11:15

the video is. Are you guys not legally

11:17

allowed to be talking about what the video

11:19

is? I don't know, Axie can... Can

11:22

I say what I'm speculating? Yeah, I can

11:25

say. I think the

11:27

speculation is in the camera roll, there was

11:29

a screen recording that he screen recorded while

11:31

they were on FaceTime of them having FaceTime

11:33

sex. That's

11:36

what I'm thinking, and I think I know

11:38

is what it was. But you don't

11:41

have to confirm. But just to give people context

11:43

that may have no idea about this drama yet,

11:45

I don't know how you would, you live under

11:47

a rock. But that, so

11:49

you view something like that. Can

11:51

you just take me back in the stall? Bring

11:55

me to the moment where you come

11:57

across realizing he's cheated on you with

11:59

Raquel. What were you thinking in

12:01

this doll? I was like

12:03

shaking like full body like

12:05

just like I don't

12:07

know if it's anger shock like I think shock

12:10

is a big part of it because

12:12

I mean I've been cheated on

12:14

in my life before and I've you know

12:16

caught somebody before like that and like way

12:18

in my past and I guess

12:21

it's like that feeling I hadn't felt and

12:23

like we're talking like 15 years and like

12:25

it's hard to describe but it's literally like

12:27

a combination of shock and anger

12:30

and somehow disbelief

12:32

that this is like

12:35

truly what you're seeing

12:37

and yeah and then like there's

12:39

just I don't know it's it's really like

12:41

a huge mix of emotions. It is and

12:43

like did you think this

12:46

was a one off or did you immediately think this

12:48

has been a relationship? I mean there's no way that

12:50

it could be a one off given the closeness of

12:52

like all of our relationship to her you know what

12:54

I mean so there's there's no way and also to

12:56

feel so comfortable doing that on a face to face. On

12:58

a face time you know

13:00

there's no there's just no way

13:03

of of it being like a one time oh

13:05

we just decided one day to face time. Drinkingly

13:09

I'm like who should I call I'm gonna

13:11

go over to hell and just like yeah

13:13

yeah no right yeah so you start confronting

13:16

him what does he say? He

13:18

was very he wanted us to get into a

13:20

car he wanted us to get into an uber

13:22

and leave immediately he was starting to call car

13:25

and then he took my phone and

13:27

then I was trying to get my phone back

13:29

and he ended up walking down to San Jacente

13:31

with my phone and I was in like boots with a

13:33

peal so I was like freaking

13:35

Usain Bolt being like I need my

13:37

phone back like. Why

13:40

did he take your phone? Because he thought because

13:42

I was like oh I'm gonna tweet about

13:44

this I mean obviously I'm not but you

13:46

know what I mean like you say things

13:48

like that in those moments you're not like

13:50

of course getting I'm not calm about it

13:52

you know I was freaking the fuck out

13:55

and he was very concerned about people

13:57

hearing us because obviously we know all we

13:59

know a lot of. People with Hollywood and all.

14:01

a lot of people at all the different

14:03

bars and we're in the back of all

14:05

these bars. and he was very. Concerned.

14:08

About people finding out and I was like

14:10

i don't care. I'm. Why

14:12

would I care who my protecting by

14:14

doing that? So do both in the

14:16

car together. isn't a where do you

14:18

go home home. What happens in the car

14:20

and when you get hello in the

14:22

car? we were so I called Rachel.

14:25

During. All of this after I got

14:27

my phone back on same as and day

14:29

I called her and and i was like

14:31

if you ever gave a shit about any

14:34

woman ever about me as or friend about

14:36

literally anything. You need

14:38

to tell me like when this started

14:40

would everly tommy I was hysterical com and

14:42

she said as and she said the

14:44

part about like after the girls are gonna

14:46

like you mean when my dog died like

14:49

when Charlotte passed away is what the girls

14:51

trip was like. The fact that.is not even

14:53

on your radar at all for am

14:55

describing this. And us and seen

14:58

a came up and that's when she took her

15:00

phone and and said i'm gonna call you from

15:02

my phone I'm throwing her phone in the gutter.

15:04

She. Called me from her phone. I

15:07

get in the car. She. Knows on

15:09

the phone with me and then he

15:11

gets in the car and now he's

15:13

on the phone with hers Are not.

15:15

All four of us are on the

15:17

phone together and it's literally like why

15:19

are you carrying like why are you

15:21

on the phone with her Like who

15:24

gives a shit about the her right

15:26

now and enough and he uses very

15:28

dismissive Very Defiant does. This is a

15:30

dismissive I've seen as friendship to me

15:32

and to him and not moment like

15:34

it was very much like just and

15:36

the poor overdrive on. Twitter:

15:39

Get him in here. I know I remember

15:42

at one point we stop. And.a

15:44

pack of cigarettes. Because. I

15:46

was like i want to just I want a drink in

15:48

chance of you know to me a lot more. Get that

15:50

years I might have one of those night saying it please

15:53

and. He. Went into the gas station and

15:55

I was just in the phone in the car with

15:57

that uber driver that way and I was just like

15:59

are you here. An era

16:01

driver was like yeah man. Up

16:04

his own of like while but like

16:06

any by far than I would say.

16:08

Yeah like issues with so you get

16:10

home and this is a par I

16:12

think I'd seen the world be so

16:14

fascinated because he was lives together. You

16:16

own a home together. you both go

16:18

home that night and is it just

16:20

like a screaming war till like you

16:22

fall asleep? Essentially an. You.

16:25

Sleep in same room? No, no, none

16:27

of them Pluto. See you sleep in

16:29

a different room. And like when you're

16:31

by yourself. like. What

16:33

were you thinking? Oh I mean

16:35

why Made sure to taxed close friends

16:38

of mine and of his because I

16:40

was like I will not going to

16:42

be in a position where and

16:44

luckily because of. The. Sheena

16:47

of at all I got least I was

16:49

like no, we're not keeping a secret other

16:51

people know. Yeah, so I was me like

16:53

texts were slowly trickling with wide eyes. What

16:55

is Happening? Are you Kidding me? I mean

16:57

I didn't sleep. I mean I didn't leaned

16:59

down to sleep until maybe like six am.

17:01

Now is how long we were like going

17:03

out and I guess. And he

17:06

was just mad at me pretty much the

17:08

entire time. That's also I when

17:10

I've been cheated on, it's like when

17:12

someone that has been keeping a secret

17:14

for so long gets called out. All

17:16

they've been doing is lying and so

17:19

I feel like their natural response is

17:21

Leeann in Harder to Like trying to

17:23

gaslight You try to distort your reality,

17:25

like trying to make you feel queasy

17:27

somehow and like not take accountability. And

17:29

somehow you like, how are we fighting?

17:32

Are you yelling at me like. You

17:34

fucked my best friend and then

17:36

like screaming crying growing up in

17:38

this moment and years as sake.

17:41

A. Noise at the whole thing be

17:43

so. That. night ends and

17:45

what we do know is like when

17:47

this happened you guys were not filming

17:49

anymore now so how long after this

17:51

happened in the cameras finally get in

17:53

there so this was wednesday night young

17:55

so it was friday morning that cameras

17:58

were at my house Because

18:00

what I could notice because we've all been

18:02

through a breakup like that is like the

18:04

Conversation in the finale that we watched felt

18:06

more like a breakup then like

18:09

post morning like literally go fuck

18:11

yourself Like yeah, there's been that

18:13

little bit of that back and

18:15

forth. Yeah, the final conversation between

18:17

you guys it was Infuriating

18:20

I think for the nation to watch

18:22

because he's blaming you being like I

18:24

lost my mojo We never had sex

18:26

like I wasn't myself I wasn't happy

18:28

and he was quite literally

18:30

taking no accountability whatsoever for his

18:32

actions What was it

18:34

like sitting there listening to someone

18:36

as you're hurt try to

18:39

deflect all responsibility For what they

18:41

had done. It was awful. It

18:43

was brutal But it was also what he

18:45

had been doing for that past 48 hours

18:47

up until that moment So I almost kind

18:50

of like knew that that's

18:52

where he was headed But then listening

18:54

to it in the moment not knowing

18:56

what other people around me are thinking

18:58

when they hear it I'm like is

19:01

this am I? You

19:03

like you start to really question your own sense of

19:06

reality and this whole thing Had me

19:08

like I did not at that point like that 48

19:10

hours Especially that night that

19:12

Wednesday night and that Thursday day like

19:14

and going to that conversation without

19:17

having any other like witnesses or

19:20

and also being in this position where it's

19:22

like my Partner of nine years and one

19:24

of my best friends like I my sense

19:26

of reality Was gone like

19:28

I just did not know like what

19:30

was up and what was yeah. Yeah

19:33

You were very vocal this season about defending

19:35

Tom and Raquel when people would come to

19:38

you and you like had their backs If

19:41

someone would have come forward I know this is

19:43

a hypothetical but if someone would have come forward

19:45

and told you about the fair Do you think

19:47

you would have believed them or do you think you

19:50

had to like see it yourself to believe it? I

19:52

think I would have believed it if it was told

19:54

to me off-camera Or

19:56

if it was told to me, you know what I'm saying

19:58

because I think To some

20:01

degree a lot of what I

20:03

felt was rumors and rumblings was.

20:05

Which. Has happened before. People. Being

20:07

like okay I heard a little something about

20:10

something but I'm gonna it up because that's

20:12

our job is You know we bring up

20:14

everything that we hear about and a lot

20:16

of times it's nothing and I was like

20:18

well if it's nothing I'm not gonna have

20:21

like my friend and my boyfriend be like

20:23

dragged through the mud. I get what you're

20:25

saying. It's almost like being on reality tv

20:27

for so many years you become almost more

20:29

accustomed to this is obviously for content. This

20:31

is for the shelves for the so this

20:34

is drama. This was like you're not actually

20:36

going to believe that. Kind of say thought it

20:38

was genuine. It would have come off camera right?

20:40

or would have caught. yeah I would have been

20:42

a friend who's like i'm gonna bringing this up

20:44

on camera is that you But I mean to

20:46

tell you first because he i think it's actually

20:48

a girl and I think that that's something that

20:50

like my close friends would have done of i'm

20:52

sorry that and young okay. I do

20:54

want to take a step back because as much

20:56

as we're talking about like in the weeds up

20:59

like this affair, you were in a relationship for

21:01

nine years at this man. And

21:03

us were friends before you got into a

21:05

relationship. What? Was it

21:08

that first initially attracted you to

21:10

Tom. I just thought

21:12

he was so earnest and everything

21:14

that he did, and I found

21:16

it really like endearing that he

21:19

would be over the top. Media.

21:21

A cocktail or over the top in.

21:24

Just. Everyday parts of life

21:26

like I thought of. very endearing ends

21:28

and sweet almost arm. And I also

21:31

thought he was a really good friend

21:33

to. The. People close to him

21:35

and I thought I was a

21:37

really good quality. Yeah, how would

21:39

you describe your relationship with Tom

21:41

to someone? I would have described

21:43

it as like. We.

21:45

used to call each other like apocalypse

21:47

buddies you know like the person that

21:49

all shit goes the hell and this

21:51

is a person that you can rely

21:53

on that you want with you was

21:55

gonna continue to like make you laugh

21:57

and gets through all of what life

21:59

has to throw at you. And like

22:01

honestly even right up until me finding

22:04

out about this affair like even during

22:06

while the affair was going on we

22:08

were still like laughing together you know having

22:10

like our little we had so many like little

22:12

inside jokes and things like that and I mean

22:14

if you were to go through like either of

22:16

our camera rolls you would see just like so

22:18

many even during the affair

22:21

amazing fun memories together.

22:24

What was your sex life like in the

22:26

beginning and then like as your relationship progressed?

22:29

I mean in the beginning I was definitely

22:31

struggling with I was very excited that someone

22:34

was like really I thought really into me

22:36

because the relationship I was in previously that

22:40

sex life was fine but at

22:42

the same time I was being like

22:44

criticized very heavily about my body and

22:47

my personality just everything and

22:50

so I was like oh my gosh this is someone who's

22:52

like really into me and so that was very exciting and

22:55

I think that our sex life waxed

22:58

and waned at different points. I

23:00

definitely think that you know got

23:02

to a point sometimes where you

23:05

know I just wanted that quality time

23:07

so bad and I just

23:09

think that in my mind I

23:11

thought well if we get through opening

23:14

the spa or if we get through all

23:16

this stuff like then we'll be able to have all

23:18

this time together and I felt like he just was

23:20

adding more and more things to his plate and

23:22

I just didn't I don't know I felt

23:25

like I'm like oh well he's just not

23:27

into me. Yeah it's like you lose the

23:29

connection almost and I think that something because

23:31

there's so many things you just said first

23:34

is from your past relationship going with someone

23:36

that was very vocal about

23:38

things they didn't like about you or

23:40

your body or your personality like that

23:42

takes a toll on your self-confidence so

23:44

then to meet the sky that's larger

23:47

than life and funny and jokes and

23:49

it's so into you it's like I

23:51

totally understand that allure and like you

23:53

feel like alive and like happy and good

23:55

with yourself In the

23:57

season I think probably one. The

24:00

hardest scenes for women specifically to watch

24:02

was that scene with you and Raquel

24:04

where you open up to Raquel as

24:06

your friend of the time again to

24:08

people watching oriented not about the affair

24:10

yes and you voice that you feel

24:12

insecure about your body and you say

24:15

you know why would he have wanna

24:17

have sex with me and for and

24:19

washing her. Speech

24:21

to knowing she was fucking your partner

24:23

is so painful to watch, but I.

24:26

When I was that I felt

24:28

so bad for you because unlike

24:30

did Tom not make you feel

24:33

confident and make you feel good.

24:35

It felt like you know he

24:37

would complain about frequency of sex

24:39

and it felt like he. Wanted.

24:42

To have sex. But. I

24:44

was at but do you want to have sex

24:46

with me? Is it about me or is it

24:48

just about. The. Act and not

24:50

where I was like Okay so but

24:52

what is it about He wasn't really

24:54

great with like the word as you

24:56

know, like descriptive or like be specific

24:58

like what do you write, You know,

25:00

like like what do you like about

25:03

me You know, like I need to

25:05

know those like I wanna know those

25:07

things or I would be like okay

25:09

well. Do. You like middle people have

25:11

said that they think I have a nice

25:13

ass I don't know of. I agree with

25:15

that but do you agree with that? Do

25:18

you and he would like v be very

25:20

turned off by the idea of me like

25:22

being like can you view the front life

25:25

that part of me or like what are

25:27

the but you know right and I think

25:29

that it wasn't coming necessarily from a place

25:31

of like he didn't like my body I

25:34

just don't think he knew how to express

25:36

or is meaningless a disconnect there and like

25:38

yeah, love languages or. How To

25:40

Lake. Click. In that

25:43

way I his i get what you're saying

25:45

but I also have any fucking guy was

25:47

hanged the this is like. when

25:49

your partner is so clearly being like

25:51

i need some reassurance i don't have

25:53

the last time you've given me a

25:55

compliment that's also like at hey wake

25:58

up like you want sec Well,

26:00

why would I have sex with someone that I don't

26:02

know the last time I felt like pretty in front

26:04

of me? Like, can you objectify me? Like,

26:07

can you look at me? Right. Or

26:09

like he would say things like, oh, nice outfit.

26:11

When I was naked or changing, he'd be like,

26:13

nice outfit. And I'm like, I get

26:16

the joke, but like, that's not connect.

26:19

That's not going to like, no, really

26:21

get me there. Something

26:23

that really pisses me off

26:25

is when men try to

26:27

justify their cheating by being like, but

26:29

we weren't having sex. Like, I need

26:32

to get my six somewhere. And like,

26:34

it's so often that women are deemed

26:36

as the problem. And of course, a

26:38

guy went and cheated. Like, you weren't

26:40

having sex, but it's like, but why

26:42

weren't you having sex? And so was

26:45

there ever a point where Tom or

26:47

like the situation as you kept hearing

26:49

it, like we weren't connecting, we weren't

26:51

physical. Was there ever a point where

26:53

you were questioning? Was that your fault?

26:57

I mean, I think

26:59

in the past I would have been

27:01

inclined to do that. But because I

27:03

was had been in therapy and

27:05

for years at that

27:07

point, I knew and couples

27:10

therapy with him, by the way, and

27:12

the couple therapist literally sat across from

27:14

both of us and said, this is

27:16

a him problem. This isn't a you

27:18

problem. You know, there's certain

27:20

things I have to take accountability for in the

27:23

relationship. But when it came to stuff like that,

27:25

it's like, no, this is something that he's going

27:27

through that he's dealing with. And

27:29

don't take that on yourself. Like,

27:31

just pleasing because it is my inclination to

27:34

be like, I'm not enough. You know,

27:36

we all have that lie that whatever the big lie

27:38

is that we all tell ourselves, mine is the not

27:40

enough lie. And the therapist

27:42

was like, please don't do that. Right. This actually

27:44

has nothing to do with you. Yeah. I

27:47

know hindsight is obviously 20, 20. And

27:49

it's like you can look back and try to put like, were

27:52

there any signs

27:55

of red flags in the beginning

27:57

of the relationship that you now

27:59

see? I think in

28:01

the beginning it was like, you know, he

28:03

likes to go out a lot. And

28:08

I thought that that was just like the phase of

28:10

life that we were in. And

28:13

I would have thought that nine

28:15

years later we would be in a different phase. I think I'm

28:18

in a different phase in my life. I still like to go

28:20

out and have fun. I go to festivals, I party, I have

28:22

a good time. But like as far

28:24

as like going out during the week just for

28:27

the hell of it. It's not anyone's

28:29

birthday. It's not like a dinner and

28:31

drinks. It's just like a, that's

28:34

just not where I'm at anymore. And I thought

28:36

that we were in that phase together and then

28:38

we would come out of it. But I feel

28:40

like he never grew up. He didn't really. Yeah.

28:43

When you look back, I know a huge

28:46

conversation on the internet is your

28:48

relationship with Tom started by him

28:51

cheating on his girlfriend, Kristen. You

28:53

guys kissed. He lied to you and was like,

28:55

I'm not with her anymore. But then it turns

28:58

out Kristen's like we were fully together. So, and

29:00

people are like, Oh, you lose them. How you

29:02

got him? Like he cheated on Kristen. He cheated

29:04

on you. Like, how do you feel looking

29:06

back at how your relationship started and how

29:09

people are now like, are you

29:11

that surprised? Like he did it to Kristen. He did

29:13

it to you. Well, to be very clear, I didn't

29:15

lose him. He lost me. So

29:18

that's right there. Sorry.

29:21

Um, but I think

29:23

that I trusted

29:25

in him so much, even like as

29:27

a friend back then. And I trusted

29:30

him so much like during our relationship

29:32

that I trusted his perspective on

29:34

things. And I think

29:37

that I was caught up in

29:39

whatever he told me that whatever it was

29:41

that he was telling me was what I was

29:44

going with. Like, that's not to say like,

29:46

I'm a smart girl. Like, you know, I could

29:48

have dug deeper, but I didn't. Um,

29:51

Kristen and I are very close and I

29:53

love her so much and their relationship, as

29:57

she will tell you, it was very toxic. and

30:00

there was a lot of cheating on

30:02

both sides there. Whatever. I love her.

30:04

She's amazing. She's a very strong, incredible

30:07

woman and she has become like

30:09

just such a force. I

30:11

think that it's something that just goes to

30:13

show that that's kind of maybe

30:17

just what he does is

30:20

he says things like, I tried to end

30:22

it or I meant, you know, things like

30:24

that or, oh, we're broken up or

30:27

things like whatever it is. I would

30:30

like to think that maybe this thing

30:32

that's happening right now will prevent him from

30:34

ever doing that again with any other person

30:37

just because I think it's time

30:39

to put that right

30:41

tactic to bed. Uh-huh. But

30:44

yeah. When you look back, I'm just thinking

30:46

like, do

30:48

you think he's a pathological liar? I

30:52

mean, it's hard to, I mean, clearly in

30:54

the last seven months, he was a pathological

30:57

liar. Yeah. It's now hard for me to

30:59

look back at nine years. And if I

31:01

tell myself he's a pathological liar, then I

31:03

mean, so the last nine years of my

31:05

life were potentially a lie. But

31:07

he did say stuff on that finale episode to

31:10

Sheena. Like we weren't happy and we bought the

31:12

house as a bandaid. I'm like a bandaid to

31:14

who? Because that wasn't

31:16

where I was at at

31:18

all. Um, or things

31:20

like there were a lot of things

31:23

from his perspective that have been said

31:25

in that episode and otherwise

31:27

that it's like, Oh, okay. Well, that's

31:30

maybe how you were thinking, but that's nowhere

31:32

near where I was. Right. And also we're

31:34

in a relationship. So you should have shared

31:36

that to me because I would have loved

31:39

to know that because I probably wouldn't have

31:41

bought a house with you. If you were

31:43

like, just to be clear, babe, this is

31:45

a band date. You'd been like the fuck

31:47

like, I mean like, okay, well,

31:49

maybe we should fix our relationship then

31:51

now and do that. Right. Do you?

31:53

Yeah. Couple therapy.

31:57

Um, you and Tom got into couple therapy this

31:59

past year. year and after he

32:01

started the affair after everything was full blown at

32:03

that point. I didn't know that. But so when

32:05

you got into couple therapy, you had no idea

32:07

about the affair. You go in

32:10

and he claims he initiated it. Is that

32:12

true? And this is a couple therapy. Yeah.

32:15

Yes, but it had been brought up by one or both of us. Okay.

32:19

Years of being together. Yep. And

32:21

it's since been revealed that he

32:23

got you both into couple therapy

32:25

as part of his eventual plan

32:27

to end the relationship. What

32:30

explanation did he give you as to

32:32

like why he was so gung ho

32:34

ready finally for a couple of therapy? I

32:36

mean, he was just we got into an

32:39

argument one day. Well, you saw on the

32:41

show, we had that conversation on the couch.

32:45

And it was that conversation. And then like one other

32:47

one that we have where it was like, I think

32:49

we should go to couple therapy. I

32:51

was like, absolutely, I would love that. We should do that. But

32:54

it was those things in those conversations that

32:56

led us to that. Yep. To

32:59

going. And

33:01

I remember specifically one session

33:04

because we would do joint and we

33:07

would do separate. And in my separate sessions, I

33:09

was doing inner child work. I

33:11

was sobbing with her. I was I mean,

33:13

I felt like I was making leaps and

33:15

bounds. And he even said, oh, we

33:18

went to couples therapy and our relationship got so

33:20

much better. Right. But

33:22

like, it's like, well, duh. Right.

33:24

Right. Like it's almost like

33:26

a little counterintuitive that if he actually had the intention

33:29

of ending it with you, why the fuck are you

33:31

going to couples therapy? I remember even saying after one

33:33

of them, I was like, OK, so there was a

33:35

session where it was it

33:37

got really intense. It felt like maybe we were

33:39

ending. And at the end of the session, she

33:41

was like, OK, so is this

33:44

a breakup for you guys? And he was like, no.

33:49

So that's where it's like, I

33:52

don't I don't know.

33:54

Can you do mind sharing? Like when when

33:57

you guys are fighting, like because obviously you're not fighting

33:59

about what were your issues in

34:01

the relationship? My issues is that I

34:03

felt like he was not choosing me

34:05

over like random nights out, or that

34:07

he just wasn't coming home. Like he

34:09

would want to just be at Schwartz's

34:12

for no reason. Oh,

34:14

now you fucking know. Just,

34:17

you know, having beers and

34:19

whatever, or coming home

34:21

and then, you know, I'd

34:23

wake up and I'd be like, where are you?

34:25

And I would like go down, he's just downstairs

34:27

like- Having FaceTime. Smoking

34:30

cigarettes and probably, but

34:32

like, you know what I mean? It was

34:34

just like the absentee boyfriend

34:36

without, and the I have

34:38

to do this for work after, you know, it was just

34:40

everything was coming before me and before the relationship. And I

34:42

felt like, and I needed that connection

34:44

and that stuff, that all that stuff in order

34:47

to be physically intimate. And I knew that physical

34:49

intimacy was something that he was saying he was

34:51

lacking. So I'm like, I don't know how I

34:53

can meet you where you need

34:55

to be when I'm not being

34:57

met, or I need to be like, how

34:59

do we figure this out? Right, it's almost

35:01

like you both couldn't, it

35:03

was a circle. It's like, no, but come home earlier. He's like,

35:05

no, but like, I'm miserable because we don't have sex, you know,

35:08

but we need to hang out in order to have sex. And

35:10

it's just like- Like what I said on the show, I was

35:12

like, I can't teleport your dick into

35:14

my vagina from the bar because if

35:16

you're at the bar and I'm at home,

35:18

like I'm here, you know, maybe I'm ready

35:20

and you're just not there. So how do

35:22

we do this? Right, like we can't actually

35:24

physically do this if you're never pregnant. Exactly,

35:26

exactly. So Tom

35:29

did mention on that How We Bend El

35:32

podcast, like things did shift. You started to

35:34

make an effort. Like what did you making

35:36

an effort in his mind do you think

35:38

look like? I

35:40

think I just was doing my

35:42

best to be present

35:45

and going out with him

35:47

more and trying to

35:49

be more fun party

35:52

time gal. You

35:55

know, I was just trying to be,

35:57

I don't know, like, and

36:01

hot, I don't know. Right. Dude.

36:03

And like how the fuck did you feel when

36:05

you were doing that? I

36:07

mean part of me was just like, I mean

36:09

this is fine. Because again I was still doing

36:12

like that inner child work and it was, you

36:14

know, I felt like that was really helping

36:16

you just be like I love myself and

36:18

I'm, you know, doing, I mean that like

36:20

really changed the game for me. Yeah.

36:23

When you say doing inner child work, like obviously

36:26

share what you're comfortable with, but like what was something

36:28

that you were like really struggling with that was clearly

36:31

like you felt bleeding into your relationship that you were

36:33

like, I'm going to work on this shit because like

36:35

I want to be whole and good with myself. I

36:37

think like this

36:39

sense of perfectionism because

36:42

I mean I love my dad but my

36:44

dad also like didn't come home

36:46

after work and stuff. And

36:49

I was always like straight A student,

36:51

super overachiever. And I

36:53

think like going back and looking at it,

36:55

a lot of times I did those things.

36:57

I mean maybe because I wanted people to

37:00

be like, I'll be

37:03

there. So I thought like

37:05

if I could be the perfect girlfriend or the perfect

37:08

girl that they'll come

37:10

home. They'll want to be around me and

37:13

I'll be enough. I won't have to be

37:15

me tap dancing, doing shrooms and hang gliding.

37:17

I can just be me and that will

37:19

be enough. Is

37:21

it so fucked when you get into therapy

37:23

also you're like, oh my God, like is

37:25

it this obvious of like, I'm

37:27

dating a version of my dad or like

37:30

I'm dating a, you're like, how did this

37:32

happen? Like my dad didn't come home. Tom's

37:34

never fucking home. Like my, yeah, I mean I

37:37

hate to speak ill. I love my dad. He's

37:40

a great person in so many ways, but he

37:42

would, you know, sometimes just be like,

37:44

okay, where there's a random dive bar down the

37:46

street, I'd go do that instead of coming home

37:48

and helping with homework. But it also makes sense

37:50

Ariana because weirdly we are attracted to

37:52

things that are familiar to us. So

37:55

It's like, if that is what you were

37:57

growing up with. Weirdly, you're like, oh, I'm

37:59

not. Putin got this with com like I

38:01

know how to deal with his I know I

38:04

get a with the the right what like know

38:06

I can do it right this time I can

38:08

kind of work, do it all over again and

38:10

be better and be and actually whole come home

38:12

was like of and then it's like actually you

38:15

deserve so much actually not on me it's on

38:17

now know yeah you want some that's actually wants

38:19

to come home and you don't have to beg

38:21

them today. Come on like show up. Be there

38:24

right? You said that you

38:26

hadn't considered ending the relationship before

38:28

All this came out. Where.

38:31

You truly happy in this relationship?

38:34

I don't know. I think I

38:36

was a version of happy that

38:39

I thought was. I

38:42

don't know what I wanted and

38:44

I also felt like the bones

38:47

of the relationship were good and

38:49

I felt as though. The.

38:51

Potential for the relationship to be

38:54

just incredible was there and I

38:56

think it was the potential and

38:58

the A If we can make

39:01

it through this time the front

39:03

again song we lost dancing, i

39:05

litter leave the night that com

39:08

or that sorts and Sandy's had

39:10

the like. Their. Last like

39:12

opening thing. I.

39:14

Was driving Tom home and I was like

39:17

just listen to the words of this. Song.

39:20

And in the song, when I think

39:22

it's a blessing, Madonna says, if I

39:24

can make it through this. Next.

39:26

Six months what comes next will be

39:28

marvelous and I literally was like if

39:31

you can get through this if we

39:33

can get through this opening of this

39:35

bar, whatever what comes next for us

39:37

will be marvelous. And I. I'd

39:40

just cannot believe that he had already been.

39:42

How about we? He was already? I don't

39:44

know but it it must be such a

39:47

mind fuck were you like which? I also

39:49

want it because I know I've done it

39:51

to were like I remember when I was

39:53

getting cheated on and I didn't know it

39:55

at the time and you're making such an

39:58

effort. I feel so fucking stupid like. How

40:00

Dare And it's like, no, no, no,

40:02

you're not Stupid. You. Are trusting

40:04

the person you were in love with? Yeah

40:06

and so it's like you also have to

40:08

wrap your head around like this wasn't your

40:11

fault, but it's like also crazy now that

40:13

you remember the details of you putting in

40:15

so much fucking working like we thought this

40:17

tom my only question now is like nine

40:19

years. Now.

40:22

When you look back as you're like oh

40:24

my gosh it as like you know I

40:26

was obsessed with like the potential like I

40:28

really wanted obsess nine years in. If.

40:31

You're still fantasizing about the potential of

40:33

what a relationship could be. You now

40:35

have any ability to look and be

40:38

like. If I didn't. You

40:41

know what I mean like or did you feel it in

40:43

the first couple years and then it dropped off with with

40:45

it Always like this I feel like. Things.

40:48

Would kind of they would. They would wax

40:50

and wane. They would be absent ebbs and

40:52

flows. Man I feel like we would have.

40:55

So. Many amazing times. So then if

40:57

there was like a couple weeks that

40:59

were like not gray or files like

41:01

I'm unsure about something, there was so

41:03

much other stuff that was great or

41:05

I would be like laugh. We would

41:07

be laughing hysterically about something or. That.

41:10

It was almost like I think. Hard

41:13

to say oh this person's outright for

41:15

me because I also had never been

41:17

in a relationship that long before, so

41:20

it's hard to know like. What

41:22

is it supposed to be like? You know,

41:24

because past. I. Think my.

41:27

My. Mind Wanders adult relationship previous

41:29

to that was I think like

41:32

three years or so. So it's

41:34

like past that point this is

41:37

uncharted territory. Guy. And I'm

41:39

thinking this is what it is. You know when

41:41

you're with someone for nine years and you're with

41:43

someone for. May. Be potentially ten

41:45

twenty right? Wicked book and decades and

41:47

day. You. know things are

41:49

gonna be hard sometimes i get that i

41:51

actually think that's like really really double of

41:53

like you try to see the good to

41:56

there is good yeah when it's adding and

41:58

flowing you have the that we just have

42:00

to stay strong through the hard times. Like we

42:02

just have to make it through this. But because people

42:04

say that we've been together for 50 years, you have

42:06

never cheated. And they're like the greatest love story

42:08

of all time. And you think like, okay, yeah, they

42:10

said that we had some hard times. Like sometimes you

42:13

have a year that's hard. And I,

42:15

you know, especially this past year, I

42:17

went through a lot and

42:20

I felt like, okay.

42:22

And he was going, I felt like we were both

42:25

on our own going through these things.

42:27

And so I thought like, we'll get

42:29

through this together because I mean,

42:31

I'm committed to this man. And, but

42:34

you know, he didn't, you know, he

42:36

had a full other relationship going on. Right.

42:40

This season, we found out a lot about your

42:42

relationship. There, you had talked about like how at

42:44

times you would go through his phone and he

42:46

was open with you and he would hand it

42:48

to you. Or then we found out on Watch

42:50

What Happens Live, you were like, I had the

42:52

iPad password, you fucking idiot. Like they're

42:54

always so stupid. And

42:56

Tom mentioned you guys were only having sex

42:58

four times a year and you were living

43:01

pretty separate lives. Were

43:03

you lonely? Yeah,

43:05

but no, because I had my best

43:07

friend. So he would be so jealous

43:09

of me hanging out with my best

43:12

friend, Logan. Right. And he would be

43:14

like, I feel like a third wheel when I go out with you guys. And

43:16

I'm like, well, because you go outside

43:18

and you are on the phone or you're

43:20

doing, you know, you. Yeah. And so it's

43:22

like, I don't want that for you, but.

43:24

Right. I

43:26

feel that absence of him not coming

43:28

home and not wanting

43:30

to do the same things that we

43:32

wanted to do. I feel that absence

43:34

with the most incredible

43:37

people I know, which are my friends. Which

43:39

is like, such

43:41

like also a beautiful thing that you

43:43

had great friends, but also kind of

43:45

like clearly a deflector of

43:48

like, instead of being like, why

43:51

are we never hanging out? I'm just gonna hang out

43:53

with my friends, which is great. We love your friends.

43:55

Because he was going and doing that, you know. And

43:57

it was just like, but honestly

43:59

though, the. for it lives comment

44:01

yeah to me is just so not

44:04

true I mean to some

44:06

degree maybe yeah but when you're

44:08

saying like I have to work I'm trying to

44:10

open this bar and oh I have to go

44:12

to dinner with Schwartz and Brett because we have

44:14

to talk about the bar and then oh I

44:16

thought you were gonna be home right after dinner

44:18

it's 12 like what are you doing

44:21

oh we just went to get drinks next door at

44:23

birds you know like things like that and it's like

44:25

okay well but then if I

44:27

again my camera roll

44:29

and his camera roll because I

44:31

have it right um if

44:34

you look at it it's we're still we're

44:36

going to concerts we're going on dinner dates

44:38

where we are there

44:41

is some there is effort being

44:43

made somewhere of like you

44:45

know right

44:47

just felt like it just wasn't

44:50

enough yeah no I got it you

44:53

obviously mentioned you went through a rough

44:55

year you lost your grandmother you lost

44:57

your dog I'm so sorry how

45:00

were you mentally grieving during

45:02

that time and like what was your

45:04

relationship with Tom when you were grieving

45:06

because I know you've been open about

45:08

like when you lost your dad Tom

45:10

was there he was like your rock

45:12

he was in it with you he

45:15

was like the person for you and

45:17

this time around was very different

45:20

were you concerned at all or were you

45:22

just like full grieving you didn't even like

45:24

give a fucking pay attention yeah I was

45:27

full grieving because my concern well with Charlotte

45:29

my dog he was

45:31

there with me he held her as

45:34

we said goodbye we literally

45:37

said goodbye to her together and then we

45:39

went home and I put

45:42

on my comfort movie which is love actually and we

45:44

drink wine and we laid

45:46

on the couch together and just

45:49

like mourned together and

45:51

so I thought we were like fully

45:53

on the same page there I

45:55

also know that like when it comes to

45:58

it was the summer We do

46:00

have to, you know, we have to

46:02

film. We have to go do stuff. We can't just, we

46:04

can't stay at home forever. And

46:07

so a lot of times it'd be like, okay, well, I

46:09

have to, I'm going to go film this. I have, you

46:11

know, voice night or this or that. And I

46:13

was like, go do it because this

46:15

is what we do. And maybe I'm

46:17

not ready for that yet, but you go do it

46:19

exactly. And

46:22

so I definitely had no idea that, you know,

46:24

he would betray me during that time. Cause I

46:26

thought he was also grieving. When it came to

46:28

my grandma, I was

46:30

so concerned with my mom. So I flew home

46:33

to my mom and then I flew back, filmed

46:35

the rest of the season, which was like one

46:37

week left. And then I flew

46:39

back again to Florida and was there for like

46:41

two weeks. It was during the hurricane Ian and

46:43

everything. I just, I just extended my stay beyond

46:47

the service and everything. And

46:50

I just, my concern was really just my

46:52

family. When you were grieving

46:54

your grandmother, isn't

46:56

that when Tom and

46:58

Raquel apparently were like at

47:00

your house or something having

47:03

sex potentially? Potentially. Potentially. I

47:05

mean, he has maintained

47:07

that that's not the case, but I

47:09

don't trust what he says. Of course.

47:11

They FaceTimed me, the three of them,

47:13

they FaceTimed me that next morning, like

47:15

before any filming or whatever. So

47:17

I was already aware that she had stayed

47:19

the night because she, it was

47:21

like, hey, good morning. Yeah, I stayed the

47:23

night. Like it was just no big deal.

47:26

Is that one of the most painful things

47:28

for you aside from the actual fact that

47:30

they were having an affair? Like the

47:32

casualness of just like, Hey girl, we're gonna

47:35

FaceTime you together. And they're your best friends.

47:37

So you're like, Hey guys. And they like

47:39

literally just fucked. It's

47:41

the duplicitousness. It's like the, it's

47:44

the backstabbing. It's like less about like an

47:46

affair. You know what I'm saying? Right. It's

47:49

so layered. And it's just

47:51

really bizarre as well. Like it's just

47:53

like, I can't wrap my head around

47:57

doing that. It's

47:59

really. twisted and sick.

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49:43

slash unwell. Tom

49:45

claimed he tried to break up with you

49:48

multiple times and your response would

49:50

be, I'm not going to let you leave. You're going to have

49:53

to force me. That's it.

49:56

There was only one. Okay.

49:58

So what tried? Okay. talking

50:00

about those conversations that we filmed. So

50:02

the one on the blue and the brown and white

50:04

and then I don't know if that looked like an

50:06

attempt to break up that you know didn't look like

50:09

it to me. And then there was another scene that

50:11

didn't make it to air that

50:13

was pretty much along the same lines. And that was where we

50:15

like decided we were actually going to a couple of therapy or

50:17

whatever. That doesn't that's not an attempt. And

50:19

then that was in September. And

50:21

then we had literally all the way up until just

50:26

Valentine's Day. Like January no Valentine's

50:28

Day is in February. Right. I'm like what a

50:30

day. Where are we. Valentine's

50:34

Day. He got me flowers. We

50:37

went to Schwartz and Sandy's. He pulled

50:39

out a bottle of wine from our

50:41

first trip we ever took together. So

50:43

obviously also after we had celebrated our

50:46

nine year anniversary at Musso and

50:48

Franks on January 1st like

50:51

full you know like we went

50:53

out we had our anniversary dinner.

50:55

Happy anniversary. Like great

50:57

night. Right. Like we've we

51:00

were having sex in January like

51:02

multiple times. So

51:04

like so

51:06

also to confirm to everyone that's not following

51:09

all this drama it's like Tom

51:11

really honed in being like I

51:13

was really trying to break

51:15

up with her like I was like

51:17

sleeping in my bed and buying me

51:20

flowers and we're going on an anniversary

51:22

dinner and like yeah going to couples

51:24

therapy and all of that. So the

51:27

Valentine's Day right that he

51:29

has reference. Yeah again got

51:31

me flowers. We went

51:34

to Schwartz and Sandy's for dinner. Brought

51:37

a super special bottle of wine that was

51:39

special to us. I

51:41

got dressed up. I put like little hearts on

51:43

my face. He was like you look so cute.

51:46

We went out for drinks later. Rachel showed

51:48

up. Did a few of our

51:50

other friends and then we went

51:52

home and we were started kissing and he

51:54

was like I have to

51:57

stop you. And then that's when he we had

51:59

this breakup conversation. Then

52:01

at the end of that conversation, that was

52:03

hours long. And the

52:05

end of that conversation was, all

52:07

right, well, let's continue this conversation.

52:09

You know, when he was

52:12

saying things in that conversation, like, I

52:15

think I am

52:17

having a midlife crisis. And I'm

52:19

like, absolutely. And I said, if

52:21

we break up, I'm probably going to

52:24

quit the show. I will probably

52:26

leave the Los Angeles. I

52:28

will probably deactivate my Instagram. And

52:31

he found that to be, like,

52:33

very offensive. He

52:36

was saying, like, I don't

52:38

know, like, I was

52:41

never saying that I was going to kill myself.

52:43

I was saying that my life, this life,

52:46

will be over for me because I will

52:48

go do something else. I've

52:50

been fantasizing about moving to, like, the

52:52

French countryside. I'm like, fucking child. And,

52:54

like, honestly, to be fair, like, in the conversation,

52:57

it's quite tearful. It was definitely not, like, a

52:59

positive conversation. But I'm not talking

53:01

about physically harming myself. And given the fact

53:03

that we had that conversation over many, many,

53:05

many hours, he knows that

53:07

that's not what I was saying. It's not just, like,

53:10

one comment and then we stop talking. So

53:13

the fact that I feel like so many things that

53:15

I've said, not just in confidence, it's

53:17

just me and him. Like, we could sit here and

53:19

work words all we want. It's my word against his

53:21

word, right? Okay. That's

53:24

fair. And at the same time, it's like knowing

53:26

me and knowing the conversation and knowing the conversations

53:28

we had in the days after that where we

53:30

were still suddenly being in my bed and

53:32

we were still going to concert. We went to a concert on

53:34

February 19th and there's videos

53:36

that he has of me, like, dancing in the living

53:39

room. And, you know, so it's like, okay,

53:41

so why are you sleeping in the bed? Why are

53:44

we continuing to hang out? Why do we have any

53:46

sort of relationship if to you now you're going to

53:48

go on a podcast and say, Ariana knew we were

53:50

broken up? It's just

53:52

like, in my opinion, I was like, you know what,

53:54

I feel great about us

53:56

having this open. I was really a

53:59

rough conversation. It

54:01

ended with, let's keep talking about this, the

54:04

next couple of days we had more conversations.

54:08

I said, you are going to have to, if

54:10

you think this is over, you will have to

54:12

be the one to end it because I'm committed.

54:15

I'm actually thinking that this is like the

54:17

potential for us to like be even to

54:20

be great because we're talking about stuff now

54:22

that we haven't talked about yet. Like

54:25

we've never really gotten this far

54:27

down this road before. So

54:29

yes, if you want it to be, if this is over

54:31

to you, like you are going to

54:33

have to like, you're going to have to do this. You're going to

54:35

have to leave. Like that's not

54:38

crazy. Like a, like

54:40

not whole, I don't, we don't have to

54:42

mutually agree upon the breakup. You know what

54:44

I'm saying? Not only is it

54:46

not crazy Ariana, that was

54:48

going to be my next question of like, I

54:51

think the whole world watching it

54:53

when Tom looked at Sheena and

54:55

was like, I can't break up

54:57

with her because she's threatened to

54:59

kill herself. First

55:01

of all, my

55:04

problem with that, even if you

55:06

had said that, which I

55:08

appreciate clarifying, but again, you didn't need to

55:11

because it's like, number one, that's a huge

55:13

fucking allegation to make about someone's mental health

55:15

and to just casually say on a show

55:17

when that's not the

55:19

truth or it was the truth. Shut the fuck

55:21

up. I have dealt with suicidal ideation before and

55:23

I have been in very, very deep, dark places

55:26

before. Um, so

55:28

to then be flippant about

55:30

it as if that's also

55:32

something about me that makes me like

55:34

deserve to be treated poorly is, is

55:37

pretty awful. I think I couldn't

55:39

agree more. I also am like, when

55:42

you saw that clip, how,

55:44

how did you feel? I mean, it made

55:47

me angry, obviously. And

55:50

then what Sheena said was like such a great

55:52

thing. Like even if that was exactly word for

55:55

word, what I said, which no, but if it

55:57

was, why did

55:59

you do? As. Absolutely nothing to help

56:01

it out at all. Like why didn't

56:03

you call my mom my brother my

56:06

friend, right? Instead you felt

56:08

it's my best friend, right Tom

56:10

knows You have shared

56:12

that you have struggled with your mental health. I

56:15

have yet You have he has clearly been next

56:17

to you while you're going through things and purported

56:19

to be my supporter

56:21

and my Partner in

56:23

that why? If

56:26

you were gonna break up, why do you think you would

56:29

leave everything in move like do you still well now

56:31

you did break up? You're not gonna do that. Right?

56:33

Are we going to the French countryside? Like where we

56:35

go? But

56:39

like when you said that to him You

56:42

really were like I'm out because I

56:44

didn't want to do I

56:46

didn't want to do all of this

56:49

on My own or without

56:51

him and I didn't want to like Just

56:54

kind of like be like, all right, I guess I'll move

56:56

into an apartment in Studio City and You

57:00

know, I just was like that's not what

57:02

I want And I was like if this

57:04

is gonna change my life dramatically not being

57:06

that relationship then I want to change it

57:08

dramatically I get what you're saying. It's like

57:10

I also appreciate I think a lot of

57:12

people can relate to this Randomly

57:14

sometimes when you have the worst fights

57:17

of your life with your partner It

57:19

does feel like you can see the light

57:21

at the end of the tunnel because you're

57:23

like we have never been this candid We

57:26

have not spoken in that way. So almost

57:28

it allows for a dialogue where you're like

57:30

weirdly We went backwards to kind of go

57:32

forward. We're out of our gradually where I

57:34

was at I was right literally where I

57:36

was that because I'm also thinking of myself

57:38

a nine-year

57:41

relationship is Not

57:43

a relationship that ends on

57:45

a with a drunken Valentine's

57:48

Day, but by the way, we were wasted

57:50

when we got home that night So

57:52

I'm like that's you don't just

57:55

have one wasted conversation and end

57:57

a nine-year relationship, right? So Right.

58:01

But to him, he was clearly, and obviously

58:03

in that conversation there was nothing brought up

58:06

about him having an affair with anyone. Right.

58:08

So it's almost like the whole thing, the

58:10

whole thing was nonsense. And I remember asking

58:12

him, I was like, why did you get

58:14

me flowers if you were like, I'm going

58:16

to break up with her? And he's like,

58:18

well, I really, I wanted to get you

58:20

flowers. You just, I was like, Oh my

58:22

God, he really, it really feels like he

58:24

really wanted to have both. I think so.

58:27

I think he was very committed to the

58:29

double life. I agree. Because do

58:31

you actually believe he was going to end it

58:33

before the reunion? I

58:36

don't know. Honestly, it's like hard

58:38

to know. I do think that

58:40

I've seen, I've seen some

58:43

things I've learned some things even

58:46

after filling the room. Come on, give us a

58:49

message. One of those things is

58:52

a text message from

58:55

Rachel to Tom saying,

58:58

I just talked to a

59:01

mutual friend, I won't name them.

59:03

And they said that you

59:06

should be honest with Ariana, maybe not

59:08

so much about all the details, like

59:10

sleeping in the house together, but

59:13

that she deserves to know about

59:15

this. And then it's like, I love you. You

59:17

got this. So

59:21

kind, so, so generous. So I

59:23

think it was only in that

59:25

last little bit there right before

59:27

I found out that it

59:30

was even that I, that it was being

59:32

workshopped. Right. That's when like,

59:34

when I saw that they were like, we

59:36

were going to do it before the reunion

59:38

because we could never sit in front of

59:40

her and let her defend. I'm like, bro,

59:43

that's what you've been doing. You've been sitting

59:45

in front of her and letting her defend

59:47

you and Raquel and everyone. It's like, why

59:50

would the reunion be any fucking different? Right.

59:55

Okay. Throughout this season, there were

59:57

numerous comments from castmates about the

59:59

dynamic. dynamic of your guys relationship again

1:00:02

before the the affair came out in January

1:00:05

you had to set the record straight

1:00:07

that you and Tom were not in

1:00:09

an open relationship Why do you

1:00:11

now with all the information? Why do you think

1:00:13

that rumor started? Honestly, I

1:00:15

think it came from him. I Think

1:00:19

that which it's been

1:00:21

denied. I'll say that but

1:00:25

I think that So

1:00:27

it came out that day that all everyone was at

1:00:29

my house That you

1:00:31

see on the show that I mean

1:00:33

obviously these conversations that are two minutes

1:00:35

on the show are like two hours

1:00:37

plus and Sometimes there are things

1:00:39

that are said that are way worse Than

1:00:42

what is on really Bravo give it to

1:00:44

us like his and

1:00:47

I my our conversation there

1:00:49

were things that were Way worse

1:00:52

and then in that conversation with all my

1:00:54

friends I think

1:00:56

it was Sheena was like So

1:00:59

one of our friends back when

1:01:01

this stuff started coming out and

1:01:03

rumors were rumbling. It was

1:01:05

apparently Rachel

1:01:07

told a mutual

1:01:10

friend that

1:01:13

She thought me and Tom were

1:01:16

in an open relationship because apparently

1:01:19

He told her that at

1:01:21

one point and then when

1:01:24

that got brought up He was like absolutely not I

1:01:26

never said that and I was like Well,

1:01:28

you should probably take that up with your little

1:01:30

fucking girlfriend Because she's the one who

1:01:33

told that to someone else and I and you know

1:01:35

what she said to that someone else She

1:01:37

said even if that she's like, I mean,

1:01:39

I don't know if that's true But I would way

1:01:41

rather hook up with Ariana than Tom And I

1:01:44

think she said that because she was talking

1:01:46

to a guy and she thought it was

1:01:49

like hot hot to be Like to say

1:01:51

that and so when Tom was

1:01:53

like, I never said that well, like well, don't

1:01:55

ask me. I'm not the one That's

1:01:57

bring information that's being brought to me

1:02:00

that she apparently said. Weirdly,

1:02:03

I do think in

1:02:05

a strange way that is helpful to know

1:02:07

because that narrative now knowing what we know,

1:02:09

it's like that didn't get put out into

1:02:12

the world by like no happened chance. Like

1:02:14

it's not like everyone's like Sheena and Brock

1:02:16

are in an open and it's like, you

1:02:18

know what I mean? It's like now

1:02:21

knowing it's like a kernel of

1:02:23

something that was planted somewhere that

1:02:25

turned into something like someone fucking

1:02:27

knew. It was

1:02:29

an open relationship, but it was one fucking side.

1:02:32

There's one person. Cause the

1:02:34

other person's like, absolutely not. I would

1:02:36

have loved to have known. Let

1:02:40

me know so I can like, you would have

1:02:42

loved to know like many times earlier. So you're

1:02:44

like, Oh, let me get on the same page.

1:02:46

You're fucking recalled. Got it. I'm out. Right. He

1:02:48

was operating telling people that probably so that

1:02:51

it wouldn't get back to you because it's like an unset

1:02:53

thing. Oh, Bill, then they must have some sort of trust,

1:02:56

some rule. And so I'm not going to bring it

1:02:58

up to her. I mean, that sounds fairly

1:03:00

likely to me. Absolutely. Katie

1:03:02

at one point said something along

1:03:05

the lines of Ariana

1:03:07

doesn't care. She just cares when people talk

1:03:09

about it and she doesn't want to look

1:03:11

dumb. Comments like that insinuating

1:03:13

you and Tom had a different relationship

1:03:16

and understanding off camera than on camera.

1:03:18

And those comments were pretty heavy throughout

1:03:20

the season of like, they've got this

1:03:22

thing on the side that no one

1:03:24

talks about. I remember Lala went on

1:03:26

a podcast and was like, they are

1:03:28

the most different off camera. Like, how

1:03:31

does that sit with you? I mean, to

1:03:33

be honest, and I do love Katie and

1:03:35

I do love Lala, but those were people

1:03:37

who are not really in our inner circle,

1:03:39

like whatsoever for the last many years. And

1:03:42

I don't think anyone within our inner circle would

1:03:44

ever say anything like that. If you were to

1:03:46

interview Logan or Brad or

1:03:50

even Sheena, they would not say that. And

1:03:52

those are people that we spent like a

1:03:54

lot of time together with, went on trips

1:03:56

with things like that. So, I mean,

1:03:59

I get to them. them, maybe they think

1:04:01

that that's fine, but they were not in

1:04:03

our inner circle. Prior to

1:04:05

the scandal, there had been other rumors

1:04:07

of Tom cheating with other women, and

1:04:10

it was disclosed in the finale that you

1:04:12

did know about one of them in Miami.

1:04:14

You guys weren't official. You talked about that.

1:04:17

Now, knowing who Tom

1:04:19

really is, how many people

1:04:24

do you think? I don't

1:04:26

know. There was one years and

1:04:28

years ago that I got

1:04:31

a DM that was like Tom

1:04:33

hooked up with my friend in San

1:04:36

Diego, and I brought

1:04:38

it up over and over and over and

1:04:40

over again, because I was like, I'm drilling,

1:04:42

I'm drilling. It was like,

1:04:44

no, absolutely not, no, no, no. You know what

1:04:46

I mean? It was like really just a no.

1:04:49

That, now, I'm like, no, I

1:04:51

think that was a yes. And

1:04:53

then there's specifically

1:04:56

the one that he said, oh yeah, there was

1:04:58

one other time. I'm like 99.9%

1:05:03

sure I know exactly who that is

1:05:05

also. But that being said,

1:05:07

how many? I don't

1:05:09

know because it's like, I

1:05:12

don't know. Because I feel like he was so,

1:05:14

I mean, there

1:05:17

was stuff that he was getting away

1:05:19

with that I learned about like within

1:05:21

the last month.

1:05:23

Like what? Like bringing

1:05:25

Rachel home to St. Louis. When

1:05:30

did he do that? Apparently more

1:05:32

than once. While you were

1:05:34

dating? Yeah. Yeah.

1:05:38

So his family knew? It's

1:05:40

hard to say like what exactly they knew or

1:05:42

when they knew. I think they at one point

1:05:44

they knew, but they were like definitely not condoning.

1:05:47

And he wasn't he was

1:05:49

like putting her up in like a hotel. Like

1:05:53

how diabolical to bring your

1:05:56

side chick to your home

1:05:58

like Like

1:06:00

and were they not afraid of Papa like why I guess I

1:06:02

mean But

1:06:10

you know what that being said there were some

1:06:13

Rumblings even before I knew whether or not that

1:06:16

was true. They're rumbling to that on the internet.

1:06:18

So definitely somebody had seen something. Okay What

1:06:20

do you think about the Billy Lee situation?

1:06:22

I do not think that anything happened there

1:06:25

don't I don't and I the

1:06:27

reason I don't is because I

1:06:30

Mean Billy Lee. Okay. I understand that this

1:06:32

sounds crazy because Raquel was someone I loved

1:06:34

and trust, you know what I'm saying? Right,

1:06:36

you're like but but I

1:06:38

do really I trust that

1:06:41

Billy Lee would not do that. Have you asked? She

1:06:44

has we talked about it. Okay. Okay,

1:06:46

based on people saying things online. She's

1:06:48

been yeah, right Yeah, has anyone reached

1:06:50

out to you sense to be like

1:06:53

I also hooked up with him They

1:06:56

have not Okay, I

1:06:58

haven't had anyone do that. Okay, that's good

1:07:00

for your mental health or are they scared?

1:07:03

Scared you'll be like on color

1:07:06

daddy like yep, Brittany from fucking

1:07:08

Australia said No,

1:07:10

dude, honestly, I would not if a

1:07:12

girl if any women did do that,

1:07:14

yeah, you're not I would not put

1:07:16

them on blast because honestly at the

1:07:18

end of the day as Much

1:07:21

as I think that they suck for doing that because they

1:07:23

knew we were together It's

1:07:26

the responsibility in my opinion the person

1:07:28

in a relationship I also think weirdly

1:07:30

now knowing the drama of like the

1:07:33

open relationship rumor. He may have been

1:07:35

putting out I've

1:07:37

always said like Men

1:07:39

when they want to put their penis in

1:07:42

something They will say and like

1:07:44

a married man will be like no we're in the

1:07:46

middle of a divorce later He goes home to his

1:07:48

wife like really will say she's sadly she passed

1:07:52

away like Literally

1:07:55

like she's not here to like he

1:07:57

we don't even know how he's already

1:08:00

so diabolical how crazy it's gotten that

1:08:02

it wouldn't be surprising if every room he

1:08:04

walked into in order to get a girl

1:08:06

like it was like we're on a break

1:08:08

or we're like it just it's it's I

1:08:11

fucking hate men okay um

1:08:14

does being

1:08:16

completely honest with yourself do

1:08:20

you think you ever

1:08:22

subconsciously turned a blind

1:08:24

eye yeah yeah

1:08:28

but I think I was given a

1:08:30

lot of assistance in doing that because I

1:08:33

would bring things up and

1:08:35

I would be shot down and or

1:08:38

I again with the oh let

1:08:40

me see your phone I think

1:08:43

that I was given a lot of assistance in that you

1:08:45

know what I mean like and he

1:08:47

even said on the show like well she didn't follow me it's

1:08:49

like how much effort

1:08:51

should I be putting forth in a

1:08:53

relationship should I be stalking my partner

1:08:56

yeah in order to know for sure

1:08:58

like what they're doing like I get

1:09:02

what you're saying and I think also to women listening

1:09:04

like we talked about

1:09:07

you going through his phone and there are

1:09:09

no texts so it's like at

1:09:12

what point you have

1:09:15

to just trust your partner

1:09:17

because then you start to actually feel

1:09:19

crazy of like and I being just

1:09:21

like so untrusting like and you're like

1:09:23

am I just like a fucking bitch

1:09:26

because now I'm being you know that

1:09:29

person that's just so like so what am

1:09:31

I their mom now that's gonna be like

1:09:34

every time they come home am I gonna

1:09:36

be like all right let me see your

1:09:38

phone you know like that whole thing and

1:09:40

it's like and then you start to feel

1:09:43

like the psycho and they become the more

1:09:45

normal one that's like you're so crazy like

1:09:47

well and then they get to use that

1:09:49

against you later on so it's like you're

1:09:51

either not psycho enough

1:09:55

to like not figure it out uh-huh

1:09:57

or you're so you're too psycho and

1:09:59

And they're like, they know how to hide

1:10:02

that. Now I'm gonna break you. Exactly. They're

1:10:04

like, you're so crazy. Here's my phone. Look.

1:10:07

And it's like, well, then open the

1:10:09

iPad if he didn't delete those messages. Were

1:10:11

his messages connected to his iPad? No.

1:10:14

Oh, you're, oh. And you know why?

1:10:16

Because at one point they were, and

1:10:19

it was just like, we just get so many, and

1:10:21

it would just be dinging, dinging, dinging. So it was

1:10:23

like, we gotta turn that off. This was years and

1:10:26

years ago. It was just like the amount that I

1:10:28

know. But the Find My iPhone

1:10:31

app, I could

1:10:33

see where the devices all were located. And

1:10:39

they were always located somewhere that they should

1:10:41

be. The band rehearsal

1:10:43

space. Or Schwartz's apartment.

1:10:45

How much of the affair do you

1:10:47

think happened at Schwartz's house? I

1:10:50

think more than Schwartz is willing

1:10:53

to let on. Because the

1:10:56

recording was at Schwartz's, and

1:10:59

he apparently felt real comfortable

1:11:01

there. Yeah. In

1:11:03

that sad, sad apartment. In

1:11:07

that sad, sad location. Yeah.

1:11:10

That's fucking gross.

1:11:12

Yeah. Do

1:11:15

you think, you kind

1:11:17

of touched on this a little bit earlier,

1:11:19

but do you think you were so quick

1:11:21

to defend Tom, not just about this, through

1:11:24

seasons, you've always had his back. You've

1:11:26

always been ride or die. And I

1:11:28

think so many people, including myself, respected

1:11:30

you for always being like, I'm gonna

1:11:32

stand by my fucking partner. But

1:11:35

do you think that you would be so quick to

1:11:37

defend him so that people wouldn't think less of him,

1:11:40

or so that people wouldn't think less of you for

1:11:42

being with him? Both. Yeah.

1:11:45

Definitely both. Because I didn't

1:11:47

want people, I always saw

1:11:49

a side of him that I felt

1:11:51

like wasn't, apparent

1:11:53

on the show, or on

1:11:56

social media, or whatever. I always felt like I

1:11:58

saw a side of him that. was like

1:12:01

the home side. And

1:12:03

so I always felt like if people

1:12:06

could just see that part of him, they would like, they

1:12:08

would get it. And then

1:12:10

in turn, yeah, I mean, for people

1:12:12

to think less of me, I mean, I don't want

1:12:14

them to be like, oh, this girl sucks

1:12:16

at picking guys a date. Although,

1:12:18

I mean. No,

1:12:21

we're leveling up Ariana, okay? Like it's

1:12:23

getting better. I've seen, it's gotten a

1:12:25

lot better. When

1:12:27

you look back on your time together,

1:12:30

are you able to see any

1:12:32

good or has what he's done completely

1:12:34

tainted him and as the human he

1:12:36

is? I

1:12:40

don't think I'm there yet. Although

1:12:45

some of these edits on TikTok that come on my

1:12:47

For You page that have like feelings,

1:12:50

that feelings song is playing and it's

1:12:52

like cute clips of I'm like, I

1:12:54

can't. Because

1:12:57

I feel like, I mean, in that regard,

1:12:59

I'm like, oh, that's maybe almost getting me

1:13:01

there. But I feel

1:13:03

like, I mean, he even said, oh,

1:13:06

because I've done this, then that

1:13:09

negates everything else. And I was kind of

1:13:11

like, I mean, it kind

1:13:13

of does. I mean, it does. I

1:13:15

hate to say it, but when

1:13:18

you have an affair, you

1:13:20

cheat like that. I do

1:13:22

think it does make it very hard

1:13:26

for me to look at the

1:13:28

relationship with any level of nostalgia.

1:13:31

Maybe years from now, but.

1:13:34

Yeah. It's also again, the

1:13:36

level of truly lying and

1:13:40

actually having what seemingly no remorse

1:13:43

almost between the two of them.

1:13:46

You can't help but wonder, I think the whole world

1:13:48

was like, what else has this

1:13:50

motherfucker done over these nine years? It's like, this

1:13:52

is the one we know about. And then, oh,

1:13:54

there was one in Miami and then there was

1:13:57

one in San Diego. It's like, what else? Cause

1:13:59

he's. good at fucking keeping it close to

1:14:01

the chest and he has no fucking issue

1:14:04

lying to your face. No. So what else

1:14:06

was there? Like, I get what you're saying.

1:14:08

It's like, that's,

1:14:11

that's difficult. Yeah, that's difficult. And

1:14:13

it also makes it feel like you look

1:14:15

back on, on the relationship and times that

1:14:17

you did think that we're good, that we're

1:14:19

happy memories. And you think

1:14:21

like, well, did they didn't

1:14:23

really like me or respect me

1:14:26

during those times, right? Because I don't

1:14:29

know. What do you miss

1:14:31

about the relationship? I

1:14:34

would say inside jokes. Been

1:14:39

good for the fun. That

1:14:45

like, comfortability of like, you've like the

1:14:47

same language. Yeah. Like, we know each

1:14:49

other. Mm hmm. There's

1:14:53

a deleted clip from Vanderpump of you, Tom

1:14:55

and Raquel in a hot tub in Mexico.

1:14:57

And you say, it looks like we're in

1:14:59

a throuple. That feels like a

1:15:01

foreshadowing now knowing what we know. What

1:15:04

specific moments did you have to

1:15:06

look back on or you look

1:15:08

back on now that you're like,

1:15:10

whoa, something so fucking shady was

1:15:12

going on in that exact moment.

1:15:14

And I, I didn't know.

1:15:16

I didn't know that

1:15:19

one. And that's

1:15:21

the big he's like fingering her in the hot

1:15:23

tub. This

1:15:26

is hilarious. You guys look like I'm so drunk.

1:15:28

I'm like, this is so funny. And by the

1:15:30

way, his whole thing about like skinny dipping and

1:15:33

hang gliding, I went hang gliding and I clearly went

1:15:35

skinny dipping. Like, I don't know what the hell you're

1:15:38

fucking talking about. Anyway, there's

1:15:41

that there were times where we would have like a

1:15:43

bunch of people over in our house. And

1:15:46

we have a guest bedroom and that guest bedroom gets

1:15:48

used a lot by a lot of our different friends

1:15:52

and her being one of them. And we would be

1:15:54

like, we would have friends who'd be like, bring over

1:15:56

the dog. So like my brother would come and bring

1:15:58

his dogs and. our friend

1:16:00

Jesse Montana would come bring India which is like

1:16:03

my dog's best friend and Rachel

1:16:06

would bring Graham over who is honestly

1:16:08

a terror He

1:16:11

bit me before like mother like

1:16:13

there. He's not a well-trained dog

1:16:17

He's kind of a little jerk But we

1:16:19

would let it go because they're like that's our friend's

1:16:21

dog like maybe he'll see and she would always purport

1:16:23

it to be like oh it's because like maybe

1:16:25

like when her and James had him together

1:16:28

that maybe like It was

1:16:30

the way he was raised as a puppy and

1:16:32

I'm almost like really James was not

1:16:34

a problem Like I try

1:16:36

to like move the food bowl and he

1:16:38

will try to bite me like he's crazy

1:16:41

He's very cute, but it's not his

1:16:43

fault right. It's all right the owner's fault

1:16:46

and bring your dog. Yeah Anyways,

1:16:49

you would have people that would come over stay

1:16:51

in the guest room stay on our couches like

1:16:54

it's a very normal thing And

1:16:56

sometimes I'd be like alright. Well. It's like Who

1:16:58

I'm gonna go to bed. Can we like

1:17:01

turn the music off or can we and my poor neighbor?

1:17:04

Has so many times. I'm like hey like

1:17:07

and I'm like I'm not even down there anymore I

1:17:09

feel like go down there and be the person's like can

1:17:12

you please and it just was

1:17:14

like so annoying And

1:17:16

there were times where I would like go up

1:17:18

to bed or whatever because it's late And I

1:17:20

have a life and a career and responsibilities and

1:17:23

you know 28 year old failed

1:17:25

pageant queens don't and So

1:17:27

they'd be able to stay up super late and

1:17:29

hang and have no reason to get up the next

1:17:31

morning and that's fine if you

1:17:34

weren't fucking my boyfriend also at the

1:17:36

same time and There

1:17:38

were times like that where if I

1:17:40

could go back and be like why

1:17:43

are like what's going on? You know right

1:17:45

things like that. Do you think they ever

1:17:47

had sex while you were upstairs? Yes, I

1:17:50

do I Think they had

1:17:52

sex in my guest room while I was sleeping in

1:17:54

my own bed that he and I went to bed

1:17:57

in Together and then he left the bed and went

1:17:59

to the guest room fucker. Yes,

1:18:01

I believe that. God

1:18:05

bless you. God, God

1:18:07

bless you. Ariana.

1:18:10

Bob's like, trust

1:18:14

issues like how like,

1:18:16

fuck, fuck him.

1:18:19

Because how do

1:18:21

you even begin to like, trust

1:18:24

someone after like that level of

1:18:26

like nine years with someone and

1:18:28

they're that fucking comfortable in the

1:18:31

home that you co-own? Yeah. Oh

1:18:33

yeah. And like when people say Tom's

1:18:36

house, I'm like, excuse me, it's

1:18:39

my house. Uh-huh. We own that house equally.

1:18:41

So I don't ever want to hear that.

1:18:44

In one episode you said Raquel is

1:18:47

kind, sweet and loyal and has just

1:18:49

been a delight since the day I

1:18:51

met her. How would you

1:18:53

describe her now? Oh my God. Lost.

1:18:57

Lost. I

1:18:59

mean, I don't know her. Yeah. I realize now I

1:19:01

never knew her, but I

1:19:03

certainly don't know her now and we

1:19:05

don't, I don't know anyone who does

1:19:07

know her. And so it's hard to

1:19:09

say, but based on what I've seen,

1:19:11

lost and empty and just,

1:19:13

um, I

1:19:16

don't know. Yeah. I think a lot

1:19:18

of hard to say cause it's like, I don't really

1:19:20

know what's going on. Some of the behavior has

1:19:23

at times seems sociopathic, but at the

1:19:25

same time I'm not really sure like

1:19:27

what is the real deal. Yeah.

1:19:30

It just sucks that you were kind of

1:19:33

in the middle of something that someone that

1:19:35

has clearly no remorse was

1:19:37

involved in the destruction of

1:19:39

also your relationship. Sure. And I, at the

1:19:41

time was like, I kept telling her like,

1:19:44

it's okay to be, to make mistakes. It's

1:19:46

okay to like, you

1:19:50

were so nice to her Ariana. Do Raquel

1:19:52

and Tom make sense together to you? No,

1:19:57

no. I mean, unless

1:20:00

he has changed everything that he has

1:20:02

ever said that he's looking

1:20:04

for in someone, then no.

1:20:08

How did you feel watching them

1:20:10

on screen together in Raquel's apartment?

1:20:12

That was the first time we

1:20:14

all kind of see them able

1:20:17

to romantically interact with her like, oh my

1:20:19

gosh, this is so weird. We can't kiss

1:20:21

on camera together. How

1:20:23

did it feel watching your partner of nine years

1:20:25

just literally the day before I think it was

1:20:27

look at you being like, I'm going to her

1:20:30

place. Yeah, I'm going like also just so shameless.

1:20:32

By the way, after he filmed that scene with

1:20:34

her, he came back to

1:20:36

my house. And it

1:20:38

was essentially, I mean, you saw how many

1:20:40

flowers were there. So I, there were probably

1:20:43

like 15 people there. I still had not

1:20:45

slept, still not eaten. My friend Janet came,

1:20:47

got all kinds of, she was making French

1:20:49

onion soup to like, Trex is my favorite.

1:20:51

So she's making French onion

1:20:53

soup. Her friends at all brought

1:20:55

over like wine and we were

1:20:58

just watching Drag Race and every,

1:21:00

it was essentially a funeral, right? Because

1:21:03

these were all also people who were

1:21:05

friends with him and were friends with her. And

1:21:07

they were like, we've lost these friends because we

1:21:09

cannot like, in good conscience. There's

1:21:12

no, there's nothing they, they, we've lost them

1:21:14

as well because we don't want to, there's

1:21:17

no way I can imagine. He's willing to do

1:21:19

that to me. Is he willing to do to you? Exactly.

1:21:22

I can understand. And so he walked in

1:21:24

the house after filming that scene, yelled at

1:21:26

everybody. This is his house too. He

1:21:30

referred to it as a party that I was having a

1:21:32

party. I went to bed. It

1:21:34

was like 9pm. I finally fell asleep on the

1:21:37

couch. He went upstairs, Kristen

1:21:39

and our, another one, our mutual friends, Courtney

1:21:41

had to be like, you should probably go.

1:21:44

Like why are you here? And

1:21:46

then eventually he left and there were paparazzi shots of

1:21:48

him going back to her apartment after. So he came back

1:21:50

to the house, yelled at everybody to like get out

1:21:52

of his house and blah, blah, blah.

1:21:55

And then we find out later on, he was

1:21:57

definitely like tuning into like the cameras in the

1:21:59

house. Like why? Like we

1:22:01

were doing literally nothing. We were you're called

1:22:03

a party. We were having a funeral. Thank

1:22:05

you exactly You're done. Bye. Oh,

1:22:07

but that scene was very

1:22:10

cringe on so many levels And I think it

1:22:12

was that scene and that that conversation that I

1:22:14

watched that made me when you asked me like

1:22:16

does he make sense to you It

1:22:19

was awkward. Yeah, the whole thing of her being

1:22:21

like I love you and he was like no

1:22:24

I said they love you But I love you

1:22:26

too. Like how did you also feel knowing that they

1:22:28

said to each other that they love each other? I

1:22:31

mean, I can't have knew that before watch.

1:22:33

I mean I knew that before watching it.

1:22:35

Yeah was like where they're at Yeah, but

1:22:38

it was cringe.

1:22:41

Do you think Tom misses you? Yeah,

1:22:45

I do Do you know

1:22:47

that like has anything been said? No, you

1:22:50

just know I just feel like As

1:22:53

someone that he would go to for advice

1:22:55

on mostly everything Up

1:22:58

until like that moment or I just

1:23:00

think that there's no way that he

1:23:03

Doesn't because he's been making

1:23:05

a lot of like very questionable decisions over the last

1:23:07

two months And he

1:23:09

doesn't have that like sounding board or that

1:23:11

advisor anymore What

1:23:14

is the extent of an apology that you've

1:23:16

received from each of them at this point

1:23:18

hers was? Like

1:23:22

a nothing Hers was a

1:23:24

text message that was very like I just

1:23:26

don't know what to say except that I'm

1:23:28

sorry Like that was it That

1:23:31

was that day. I was March 3rd that I got

1:23:33

that one. That was that night. I went to a

1:23:35

concert With to

1:23:37

see Tovlo my friends were like, let's get you

1:23:39

out of the house, right? Go just do something

1:23:42

fun and then we'll go back and we'll heal

1:23:44

but and then at

1:23:46

the reunion it was very subpar

1:23:51

It was like a rehearsal speech and I

1:23:53

was just like shut the fuck up Right,

1:23:55

it's like someone told you to say these

1:23:57

exact lines like nothing is

1:23:59

inside Yeah, nothing had clicked. I didn't feel like

1:24:01

it was genuine. Also, that kind of text message, you're like, that

1:24:03

is the kind of text messages you send when like, you were

1:24:05

a bitch the night before, because we were drunk, and you said

1:24:07

some things and you're like, I'm really sorry, I don't know what

1:24:10

to say. I'm embarrassed. Like, you had an almost

1:24:13

year affair with my boyfriend, like,

1:24:16

maybe you should send multiple

1:24:18

pages of an explanation and

1:24:20

like, okay, and what

1:24:22

about Tom? Well, obviously,

1:24:24

you saw how well, I told you how

1:24:27

that night went. The

1:24:29

next day, not much better. And then that scene

1:24:31

that you saw, which was two hours and there

1:24:34

was a lot of like way worse things

1:24:36

that he said. Like

1:24:38

what? Like, what is he saying? Like at one

1:24:41

point, he was like, Oh, well, I'll keep taking

1:24:43

care of the house like I always do. What

1:24:45

is his obsession with like the batteries and the

1:24:47

fucking toilet paper? He's like, I take care of

1:24:49

this house. Like, you have an assistant like, right,

1:24:51

he goes and gets like, he says, Hey, we

1:24:53

need this. And she goes and gets it. Like,

1:24:55

it's not like, you know, I saw, I literally

1:24:57

thought take off a girl being like, how

1:24:59

to not get cheat on one on one.

1:25:01

And she's stocking the house with like batteries

1:25:04

and toilet paper. Like if only Ariana had

1:25:06

stocked the toilet paper, like he acted as

1:25:08

if like, that was a huge point of

1:25:10

contention. And like why he cheated. He's like,

1:25:12

she would never stock the house. Ariana didn't

1:25:15

do these things. And you're like, bro,

1:25:17

I noticed. Yeah. Like over the last

1:25:19

few months, I've noticed like, there

1:25:22

was one time doing I think I was shooting spawn

1:25:24

con like downstairs at one point. And all of a

1:25:26

sudden, he's like, as his assistant, like, does she know

1:25:28

where the ladder is? And it was by me. So

1:25:30

she brought it and he's like, what's it to change

1:25:32

the filter on the air conditioner? I'm like, you wouldn't

1:25:35

do that now. Because it's like now you have this

1:25:37

thing you have to like, uphold that

1:25:39

you like, right? All these things I am the man

1:25:41

of the house. It's like

1:25:44

chill. Yeah, so it's

1:25:46

so cringe. Um, would

1:25:48

you go back and change anything you did?

1:25:52

Honestly, I want to say no, because I

1:25:55

feel like Listen,

1:26:00

I've seen people online be like,

1:26:02

she wasn't perfect. Well,

1:26:04

obviously, who is person?

1:26:07

She's not innocent. Okay, I don't have to

1:26:09

be. I was very

1:26:11

much a committed partner in

1:26:13

this relationship. False. What is it? Awards and

1:26:15

all I was very much committed and I

1:26:17

feel like I was doing my absolute best

1:26:19

as a partner. But

1:26:23

I don't think I

1:26:25

would do anything differently just because I

1:26:27

feel like all

1:26:30

I can do is my best

1:26:32

and whether my best is good enough or

1:26:34

not for anyone. That's

1:26:37

what it was. And I feel like, yeah,

1:26:40

I could have been less trusting. I

1:26:42

could have been more paranoid or I

1:26:44

could have been I could have followed or I could have bought

1:26:47

pens and batteries or whatever. But ultimately,

1:26:51

I think that if I go back and

1:26:53

try to like change all the things that

1:26:55

I would have could have should have, I

1:26:58

mean, I would never stop. So do you

1:27:00

think that had you not caught him, do

1:27:03

you think you guys would still be together? It's

1:27:07

hard to say in this moment because, you

1:27:09

know, there was this there was a plan

1:27:13

still together. I

1:27:17

almost think no, given that

1:27:19

I know about this plan now. And

1:27:22

you explained what the plan was to people. The

1:27:24

plan was, I think, to

1:27:28

end the relationship under

1:27:30

the guise of like that Valentine's

1:27:33

Day conversation for that to eventually

1:27:35

stick. Eventually, that would be the

1:27:37

that was the end game to

1:27:40

break up with me without any

1:27:43

mention of any sort of fair or

1:27:45

cheating or anything, whether

1:27:48

that was pre reunion or not,

1:27:51

or pre going to film winter

1:27:53

house or not. And

1:27:55

then, you know,

1:27:58

go about whatever and and then they would

1:28:00

just start dating. Yep. But

1:28:03

the narrative that he was the victim

1:28:05

in our relationship or that I was

1:28:07

just, I just suck. So would have

1:28:09

already been planted. I think that was

1:28:11

part of like a, there was a

1:28:14

master right plan. Yeah, it's

1:28:16

a little wild to see like how

1:28:18

much he was working it towards the

1:28:20

end there. Like you guys weren't really

1:28:22

in this season that much. And

1:28:25

then to watch like halfway through or

1:28:27

even a little bit farther than halfway

1:28:29

through, he just is coming

1:28:31

out of the woodwork complaining to Tom. Oh

1:28:35

my gosh, we're not connecting. We don't have

1:28:37

sex. I don't know. Like it

1:28:40

is pretty diabolical now that you watch

1:28:42

it. Like, oh, this was a whole

1:28:44

plan. Set the stage. I'm not happy.

1:28:46

We don't have sex. We don't connect

1:28:48

and then end it. And then all

1:28:50

he thought was going to work perfectly

1:28:52

and thank fucking God it didn't because

1:28:54

it's disgusting. No, I'm actually like there

1:28:56

was at one point, I

1:28:59

think it's him or Schwartz had said to

1:29:01

me at one point, like, I'm so sorry

1:29:03

that you found out this way. And I

1:29:05

was like, I'm so glad that I found

1:29:08

out this way. Because if I had found

1:29:10

out the way that y'all had planned,

1:29:14

it are like, are you kidding? Like it

1:29:16

would have been, I

1:29:18

would have been just a cog in the

1:29:20

machine of this whole

1:29:22

narrative, this whole thing. Do you ever think

1:29:24

back to like that night with the phone

1:29:26

and you're like, thank God.

1:29:29

Yeah. And I also

1:29:31

think what was it? It

1:29:34

felt like a beam. Like

1:29:36

I hate to say a lightning

1:29:38

bolt. No, literally, but it really truly

1:29:41

felt like a lightning

1:29:43

bolt of do this

1:29:45

right now. And it's like, I

1:29:47

don't know. That's why I say

1:29:49

like, it's about like some sort of divine intervention

1:29:52

because like, and I'm not like, I don't really

1:29:54

believe in God. I don't know if that's right.

1:29:56

Like I don't, I'm not a religious person by

1:29:58

any means. There is something that. just

1:30:00

went like something went off and

1:30:02

it's so weird because I don't

1:30:04

know how to describe it because like so many other times

1:30:06

I would have been I could have he

1:30:08

even asked me that he was like why didn't you go through my

1:30:10

phone you know when I was

1:30:13

sleeping or whatever and I'm like because I just didn't

1:30:16

ever want to do that

1:30:18

and be sneaky like that like I

1:30:20

don't want to be sneaky and that makes me feel

1:30:22

sneaky but yeah thank

1:30:24

god a woman's

1:30:27

intuition is ever wrong um what

1:30:29

have you now uncovered that repulses

1:30:31

you about this whole situation um

1:30:35

the flying her to

1:30:37

different places um I

1:30:39

know that she was that I watch

1:30:41

what happens live appearance where Schwartz

1:30:44

was covering his mouth and acting all weird yeah

1:30:46

because she was in the hotel room she

1:30:50

was there in New York I know for

1:30:52

a fact he

1:30:55

was he was so he

1:30:59

was using like other people's credit

1:31:02

cards and things to

1:31:04

like like basically making them pay

1:31:06

for things and then Venmoing them later so that

1:31:08

like it was just really

1:31:10

mess and you know what honestly it makes me really

1:31:13

upset because I feel like he put people

1:31:15

in a position that they

1:31:18

felt like they

1:31:22

didn't know what to do um and I

1:31:25

feel bad because I feel like it that just

1:31:27

I can only imagine how heavy like how much

1:31:29

that weight on like this was

1:31:31

a whole fucking operation that he started

1:31:33

to get running where it's like the

1:31:35

credit card here have some a booker

1:31:38

in the hood like it was like

1:31:42

who knows how much farther it would have

1:31:44

gone sure and having the

1:31:46

band and the touring and stuff like that

1:31:48

I feel like was a very easy way

1:31:50

to be like well I

1:31:52

have to be out of town and then

1:31:54

she could then be flown to wherever that

1:31:57

show was and I would

1:31:59

have no idea because he's coming home exactly when he's

1:32:01

supposed to come home. Right. Of course he's out

1:32:03

late, he's playing a show. Like there's nothing about

1:32:05

it. Like he was very good with that. It

1:32:08

does start to make you wonder was the, is

1:32:10

this band just a whole cover for the Seferik?

1:32:12

Cause like objectively, I know you

1:32:15

were in love Ariana, but like it's

1:32:18

not great. The band's

1:32:20

not great. I feel like it's gotten, well,

1:32:23

wait, has it gotten worse? Or

1:32:25

did you just open your eyes? Or did I not? Can

1:32:29

you now just like unbiasedly look at it

1:32:32

and be like, those

1:32:35

were love goggles. And

1:32:38

now we flipped them off and you're like, hi,

1:32:40

don't need to watch that anymore. Do

1:32:43

you know if there was a night ever that you

1:32:45

had sex with Tom the same day he

1:32:48

had sex with Raquel? I don't know that. I

1:32:50

don't know that. Oh, that would be extra

1:32:53

therapy sessions for that week. Yeah. I would

1:32:55

love to know. Would

1:32:58

you? Well, I've already

1:33:00

had my pan. I'm

1:33:02

good. Okay. Right. So now it would just be

1:33:05

like, oh, of course, like an L O out

1:33:07

moment. Right. We've already gone through the worst. Now

1:33:09

like just like the details just become like, oh,

1:33:11

that's, you see like sometimes it makes me laugh

1:33:13

because at this point it's like, it is so,

1:33:17

again, you ask that question and I'm like, like

1:33:21

I don't, maybe so, but it seems

1:33:23

like a no. Right, right. I don't

1:33:26

know. The reunion airs this week. How

1:33:29

did you feel going into the reunion and

1:33:31

how did you feel walking out of it?

1:33:36

I felt going into it like

1:33:39

it had only been like, what was

1:33:41

it? Okay. March 1st. We

1:33:43

filmed the reunion March 23rd. It

1:33:46

had already felt as

1:33:48

though it felt like

1:33:51

there was like a wall, like

1:33:53

a divider had built, had been

1:33:55

built somehow between the current,

1:33:57

the past and the. And

1:34:01

that feels so weird. And maybe that

1:34:03

is again, like a compartmentalizing coping mechanism.

1:34:06

But it also felt as

1:34:08

though going into it, we

1:34:11

were all on the same page, like, and

1:34:13

that's never happened. So that I felt gave,

1:34:16

not just me, but Sheena, Lala, Katie, James,

1:34:18

we all had this like vote of confidence

1:34:20

amongst our each other. And we

1:34:23

all knew that we were all on the

1:34:25

same page with that. And so it felt,

1:34:29

it felt like a boost of confidence. Yeah.

1:34:31

Way of knowing like, I don't have to

1:34:33

sit here and question and whether or not

1:34:35

I'm right or wrong, or if Lala

1:34:37

is right or wrong, or if James or Sheena

1:34:39

or Katie is right or wrong. We know and

1:34:41

we feel that like deep in our gut. And

1:34:44

that right, that felt good. Yeah.

1:34:48

It was weird. I mean, honestly, that, that three

1:34:50

weeks was like, really fucking

1:34:52

weird. And so to

1:34:55

go into a reunion and I'm a

1:34:57

not sitting next to him, but I'm

1:35:00

also not like

1:35:02

he would say stuff. And I'd be like, because

1:35:06

normally I'd be like, well, what he's trying to

1:35:08

say, because he'd, he'd always almost like

1:35:11

needed a translator at times, because he

1:35:13

would have an opinion that we

1:35:15

had, we had talked about things, you know, at home.

1:35:17

And so I understood where

1:35:20

he was coming from or like what he was trying to

1:35:22

get at. But like, then he would voice it and no

1:35:24

one else could get it. So I would be like, okay,

1:35:26

so what do you really, this is what we're, what do

1:35:28

you, and so to be there and like,

1:35:31

think yourself, not my job. What

1:35:33

was it like sitting and

1:35:36

having to listen to Raquel? Painful

1:35:40

and not painful in the sense of like, she

1:35:43

hurt my feelings. Painful

1:35:45

in a sense of like, I really did

1:35:48

not feel like she was connected to the

1:35:50

moment or reality at all.

1:35:53

I really feel like, again,

1:35:55

then March 23, that the two of them,

1:35:58

both of them

1:36:00

somehow maybe it was like they were feeding

1:36:02

it to each other because I don't know

1:36:04

who else would be they thought people

1:36:07

are just mad yeah I'm

1:36:09

a little mad at you and like

1:36:11

we'll be fine like I think that's

1:36:13

like where both of their minds were

1:36:15

at and so the

1:36:17

the gravity of what they

1:36:20

had done or were doing or whatever it was

1:36:23

just not hitting at all he

1:36:25

was still I mean look I think she

1:36:27

just I

1:36:29

don't know and I was like I

1:36:31

mean I don't know why you're sorry now you thought you were

1:36:34

a hot shit when you were doing it right you thought

1:36:37

like are you kidding uh-huh so

1:36:42

how would you describe your emotions during the reunion

1:36:44

I was angry at times

1:36:49

I was sad but

1:36:52

I honestly think that the biggest thing

1:36:54

that I felt that there

1:36:57

was like a question that was asked towards the end I was

1:36:59

just like I was

1:37:01

so grateful for my friends both

1:37:03

the friends that were there that day

1:37:05

and otherwise and

1:37:08

I honestly a lot of it

1:37:10

felt numb in a

1:37:13

way because

1:37:15

it felt like as

1:37:17

angry as I was it was almost

1:37:19

difficult to connect to what once

1:37:22

you go angry it's very hard to like come

1:37:24

back from that and yeah that's

1:37:27

where I was I think was there anything you

1:37:29

went into the reunion with of like I'm

1:37:32

making this up like I'm not gonna look her in

1:37:34

the eyes or I'm gonna make sure that I don't

1:37:36

look him in the eye no literally I was like

1:37:39

I'm not looking at either of them I will communicate

1:37:41

to Andy or to Lisa if I have to look

1:37:43

in that way otherwise I will speak to the the

1:37:46

wall emptiness miss the

1:37:48

soundstage was that like you're literally that was me

1:37:50

like I was like I'm not looking at either

1:37:52

of them and then eventually a couple times I

1:37:54

did but I mean that was

1:37:56

you were like that without your main thought going in yeah I

1:37:58

was like I will speak to them.

1:38:01

I'll speak like I

1:38:03

will answer right but I'm not we're not

1:38:05

gonna you don't deserve my I

1:38:07

get it. Did

1:38:11

you feel like you were able

1:38:13

to get closure from the reunion?

1:38:15

Yeah I honestly felt like I had

1:38:17

closure before that before the

1:38:20

reunion and then at the reunion

1:38:22

I mean I said

1:38:25

what I felt like saying in the

1:38:27

moment but I honestly felt as though

1:38:31

everything that happened I think

1:38:34

I even said it but

1:38:36

it didn't make it to air but I was just like

1:38:39

you this happening I mean

1:38:42

you made it really easy

1:38:44

for me to just not

1:38:46

give a shit about you

1:38:48

like breakups are hard

1:38:52

you miss the person you

1:38:54

know you think what could I have done

1:38:56

what could they have done are we

1:38:59

gonna get back together you know you have all

1:39:01

these things right when you go through a breakup

1:39:04

but when something like this happens you're like

1:39:07

bye like there's literally nothing about

1:39:09

that person right even if I

1:39:11

missed him like in the first few

1:39:14

days like even that feeling of missing

1:39:16

him that's not who whoever that

1:39:18

is not that person so I

1:39:20

feel like that's also a good

1:39:22

bit of advice for people listening

1:39:24

that maybe be going through something

1:39:27

similar of like the

1:39:29

more that the person hurts you

1:39:31

in terms of how they decide

1:39:33

to betray you you can find

1:39:35

some type of hope of love

1:39:37

that just made it so much

1:39:40

easier to never look back and

1:39:42

that is even more hurtful to fucking

1:39:44

person that fucked with you because it's like it would

1:39:47

have been like if I kind of if you fucked

1:39:49

up a little bit and we had a fight and

1:39:51

then we did like he closed

1:39:53

that door you didn't even have to

1:39:55

fucking push it like I'm not doing

1:39:57

that and I almost think that that was

1:39:59

why the elaborate plan was

1:40:01

what it was, is

1:40:04

because then I would want to

1:40:07

get back together, right? Or I would be sad, or

1:40:09