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2:16

Jan Wong, author and journalist.

2:19

How are you doing? Good. How are you, Jesse?

2:22

I'm doing good. Today on the show, the special

2:25

rapper is back with a hotly anticipated

2:27

release. Is it an uncredited

2:30

collab with Justin Trudeau?

2:33

Also, Olivia Chow, pre-election,

2:37

is being crowned Mayor of Toronto by the press.

2:39

And I'm just finding that confusing. Welcome back

2:41

to Shortcuts, Jan, where we talk shit about the news.

2:43

Thanks. Glad to be here again.

2:48

This episode is brought to everyone by Kaylee

2:50

Weston, John Morton, Brandon

2:52

Bertram, Millie Blackwell, Alexis

2:54

Vanaras, Sean Lukaszuk, Michael

2:57

Sajewski and Glenn. Hi,

3:00

my name is Glenn and I work in climate

3:02

change in Toronto. I've been a fan

3:04

of Canada Land ever since discovering it one

3:06

day, walking my dog. And I've supported it ever

3:08

since. It helps me stay connected

3:10

to the stories that matter and the stories that

3:13

I need to be paying attention to.

3:14

I really appreciate the coverage and conversations

3:17

that are always important and sometimes difficult

3:19

to listen to. Keep up the great work.

3:27

David Johnston says no to a public

3:29

inquiry into foreign interference. After

3:32

weeks of examining top secret documents

3:34

and talking to dozens of people...

3:35

The special rapporteur today ruled out

3:38

a public inquiry. Canadians may never

3:40

know the full details of intelligence.

3:42

I recognize this report's

3:44

conclusions would be met with

3:46

skepticism by some. I committed

3:49

to listening very carefully

3:51

and abiding by the recommendations.

3:54

We see today

3:55

that his ski buddy, cottage

3:57

neighbour, family friend... and

4:00

member of the Beijing-financed

4:02

Trudeau Foundation came out and did exactly

4:05

what I predicted. Are you surprised, Jen?

4:07

Well, not really. I'm

4:09

disappointed, but I'm not really surprised. I'm

4:12

actually kind of surprised. I shouldn't

4:14

be at this point, but the sheer shamelessness of it, like, I

4:17

really felt like this is

4:19

so suspicious to

4:23

appoint David Johnston, given the family connection.

4:26

It's not just that he's a member of the Trudeau Foundation

4:29

and family friends of the Trudeau's. But

4:31

like, the conflict is like the Trudeau

4:33

Foundation is part of this scandal.

4:37

And so I felt like this

4:39

is so stinky that

4:41

it can

4:42

only be a delay tactic, because it's

4:44

not going to be acceptable to

4:46

give your buddy the job of investigating

4:49

you and saying, oh, yeah, I clear

4:52

my buddy of all wrongdoing. I thought

4:55

it was just a stalling tactic. So I actually

4:57

was like, I was expecting like, yeah, of

4:59

course the public inquiry. It just, you

5:02

know, but let's just drag it out a little bit so that I

5:04

hope the public stops caring.

5:05

Oh, well, I expected total exoneration

5:07

because he is the buddy. I guess

5:10

you think two chess moves ahead, and

5:12

they only think one chess move ahead. So

5:15

you're smarter.

5:16

No, I'm too naive. I'm too believing. Well,

5:19

it is kind of incredible that

5:22

he appointed his ski buddy as

5:24

he's called. I mean, he's really

5:26

a friend. And then he says, well, I

5:28

haven't had any contact with him for years. But you

5:31

and I both know that if you were

5:33

driving them home years ago, there's

5:36

a certain bond there, right? So

5:39

he should never have been appointed, never.

5:41

But he was. And so I guess

5:43

I'm not surprised. I mean, you're surprised

5:46

because you're probably an idealist, and,

5:48

you know, hope springs eternal. But

5:51

it's not surprising, and it's what

5:53

a waste of time.

5:54

I want to play you a clip

5:57

of David Johnston being asked the question. directly,

6:00

well, not so directly. The reporter was like,

6:03

I don't know why we have to say this. Every time

6:06

we ask the conflict of interest of question, it's

6:08

like you have to do two paragraphs of like, of course you

6:10

are the most honorable man, David Johnston, whoever

6:12

said, of course you are beyond

6:15

repre... But then he finally gets to the question, which

6:17

is like, he says, no

6:19

one is suggesting that you are corrupt, but the appearance,

6:22

the appearance-er of conflict of interest, surely

6:24

that was a consideration. And

6:27

this is what David Johnston said

6:29

in response

6:29

to that question. What I can say with respect

6:32

to the allegations of an appearance of

6:34

conflict of interest, I took the trouble

6:36

of seeking a legal opinion from a retired

6:38

Supreme Court justice, that's Justice Frank Akabuchi.

6:41

He was very clear that there's no conflict of interest

6:43

with respect to the true obligations. So I

6:45

have no doubt whatsoever that I had any conflict

6:48

of interest and no doubt

6:50

at all, speaking

6:52

myself about my impartiality or

6:54

my ability to bring my records

6:57

such as it is for you to judge as

6:59

to whether I'm capable of character and impartial

7:02

and

7:03

inquiry based on integrity.

7:05

Okay, so there's two people who David

7:07

Johnston consulted with to find out whether or not

7:09

he might be in conflict of interest or have the appearance

7:12

of a conflict of interest. One was David

7:14

Johnston. He's like, I checked. And

7:16

I know that I'm reffing, you know,

7:19

my brother-in-law's game here, but I

7:21

really thought about it, like, am I really gonna tilt this? And

7:23

I thought, nah, I'm a good guy. I'm not gonna do that. I can

7:25

be fair. But my favorite part of that is the first person

7:27

he cites, you know, you know, yeah, maybe it looks

7:30

like, maybe it looks like I've got a conflict of interest.

7:32

How could I find out for sure? Let me ask, I mean,

7:34

who is better to ask than a retired Supreme

7:36

Court justice, Akabuchi?

7:38

It reminds me of Clarence Thomas, a

7:40

Supreme Court justice in the

7:43

US, you know, wondering if it's okay

7:45

for him to take those rides on the yacht

7:47

and all these gifts. Can this rich

7:49

billionaire renovate my mom's house?

7:52

Can he buy my mom's house at above market

7:54

value? And let me just ask

7:56

a few people. Oh, they told me it's fine.

7:59

to go back to what you said about the Canadian

8:02

reporters bending over

8:04

backwards to grovel, can

8:06

they not just ask a straightforward

8:09

question instead of all this lace

8:11

and frilly stuff at the beginning?

8:13

That really irritates me when

8:16

journalists spend two

8:18

minutes setting up their question and groveling.

8:21

Just ask. This is a conflict of interest.

8:23

How do you address this? And

8:25

then his answer would have looked much weaker.

8:28

Oh well, I checked. I looked

8:30

at myself and I said, no, I'm an honourable guy.

8:33

This cannot be a conflict of interest. You

8:36

already set yourself up for failure when you

8:38

ask questions like that.

8:40

In his title, I mean, baked into

8:42

his title says he's an independent special

8:44

rapporteur. So they should have got someone with no ties

8:47

at all. He has too many ties.

8:50

He was on the Pierre Trudeau Foundation.

8:52

He's friends with a family.

8:55

So it's just bad.

8:57

But I was thinking, we've already

9:01

heard what he said. And I was thinking,

9:03

okay, let's flip this. Let's see. What would China

9:06

think of this report? Is this what China

9:08

would want? Well, they wouldn't want the

9:10

report to say, yes, there is interference. So he

9:12

did say that. But he said a bunch of other

9:14

things. He said, it's

9:17

the media. They got it all wrong.

9:19

And the government didn't do anything

9:22

wrong, but it's the dumb spy service. They

9:24

couldn't even get their emails, transmission

9:27

straight. And it's actually

9:29

exactly what China would want. Let's keep this all

9:31

secret. Let's not tell anybody anything.

9:34

This is exactly what the Chinese

9:37

government would want. Well, the whole thing is

9:39

a mess from the beginning, as you point out. It's tainted

9:41

from the beginning. And now we're going to sit through

9:43

another, what, six months of agony

9:45

as he holds some kind of emasculated

9:49

public hearing on what happened that we

9:51

can't tell you anything.

9:52

The findings of this, like, I'm

9:54

going to hear from Andrew Coyne's reaction. Andrew Coyne has

9:57

been like a nonstop permanent

9:59

sputter. like since this came out oh

10:01

i like i like reading him he's i

10:04

enjoyed it i do too i sometimes

10:06

so as you need him to just sputter and yeah i'm just

10:08

like in hamilton the king of england

10:10

just like spraying the audience with the of

10:13

like how how is possibly

10:16

imagine that this could suffice used to eating

10:18

and you know it but summarizing the findings

10:21

china did have a plan

10:23

to funnel cash to eleven candidates like no

10:26

one is debating and there was an

10:28

appearance and surged interference the

10:30

liberals role in this because all the chinese

10:33

interference was to help the liberals heard

10:35

the position that puts them in like they

10:37

have every reason to want to make this go away

10:39

and and to overlook this and that is exactly they're being

10:41

accused of your the limited focus of

10:43

the special rappers mission here is simply

10:45

like did the government knowingly

10:48

stall fail to

10:51

act on this information like

10:53

this is not what exactly happened

10:56

to our democracy it was this limited

10:58

question

10:59

and the answer we got from

11:01

david johnson

11:02

is not necessarily conclusively that

11:05

the government

11:06

was innocent it's that he just doesn't have the

11:08

evidence exactly he doesn't have the evidence

11:11

and have any collect evidence where he went to the

11:13

prime minister the ministers and said hey did you

11:15

failed to act to

11:16

build when i failed to act and they're all you know

11:19

i didn't fail to act i just didn't get around

11:21

to it and then erin o'toole has a piece

11:23

saying this guy didn't even ask

11:26

me or any conservatives

11:28

about what we think happen

11:30

and were the ones who are harmed by this chinese

11:33

intelligence and into like the

11:35

last week and his report was

11:37

already been translated into french yeah

11:39

a done deal he was just taking off a box

11:41

at that

11:42

very damning very damning

11:44

and i get that the

11:46

opposition is being ornery and

11:48

they're not cooperating fully but

11:50

you just gotta stop everything and wait for them

11:53

pierre paul he ever and on the last person

11:55

to defend the arab

11:57

however but you know they did send him happy life

11:59

and then they gave him two days and he didn't

12:02

do it. It's like journalism. If

12:05

you want to get their side, you

12:07

have to put on the brakes, stand

12:09

by their door, you got to doorstop

12:12

them and say, I got to talk to you. You

12:14

know, you can't just go, oh well, oh well, I sent

12:17

three emails. Like if my students said

12:19

that to me, my journalism said, I sent three

12:21

emails, I would be yelling at them.

12:24

Like, what good is that? I only want to know

12:26

if you got to them. And so he didn't

12:28

do the basics of any investigation, which

12:30

is to talk to the other side. That's a very good point.

12:32

That's a very good analogy, especially because one person

12:35

who Johnston does come to a conclusion about is the media, that

12:37

the media overreacted, the media is playing. That made

12:39

me so mad. But that's a great analogy. Like when you are, and sometimes

12:42

you know, it's

12:44

possible in journalism that you get really into crafting a certain

12:46

narrative. For whatever reason, you're putting together this one

12:48

narrative, you've got copious information from one side, and

12:51

the question is like, look, if you're doing this right, you

12:54

really have to make every effort. To get the other

12:56

side of the story.

12:58

An editor would never have published that

13:00

story without getting the other side. They

13:02

would have just said, we have to get the other side. And depending

13:04

on whether or not you're in good faith or not, like

13:06

you can, as the last thing

13:08

you do, send an

13:09

email and say, hey, do you want to comment on this?

13:12

Oh, sorry, time's run out. We're running it. Or

13:14

you can really actually try. Yeah.

13:17

Actually trying means like, you didn't respond

13:19

to the email. I'm going to call you up on the phone. Yeah. I

13:22

can't get you on the phone. I'm showing up at your house. Exactly.

13:25

You asked for some extra time to answer the questions. I'll

13:27

give you the extra time. Exactly. That might

13:29

complicate the narrative that you've been putting together, but

13:32

do you want it to be accurate? It really doesn't

13:34

seem like this guy wanted it to be accurate.

13:35

Well, you have to also be beyond reproach, right?

13:38

We know when we do stories, if we

13:40

didn't talk to the other side, then you have a problem.

13:43

And he doesn't understand the fundamentals that

13:45

your whole report is suspect

13:48

if you didn't talk to the other side

13:50

or the other sides. So he

13:53

just goes ahead and goes, well, I'm going to just

13:55

send it to the printer.

13:58

This is so bad.

13:59

I didn't get to the punchline, Jan. David

14:02

Johnston turning to retired Supreme Court

14:04

Justice

14:05

Yakubuchi to say, hey, I used

14:07

to be involved in the Trudeau Foundation, do I have an appearance of conflict

14:10

of interest in Yakubuchi? He goes, no, you're good, you're good, buddy.

14:12

The problem was that Yakubuchi

14:15

was a mentor with the Trudeau

14:18

Foundation. Oh, really? I didn't know

14:20

that. Oh, that's good. You cannot

14:22

make this up. How come he didn't call you and

14:24

ask you? David Johnston should have said, hey, Jesse,

14:28

is this a conflict of interest? Are you going to do a podcast

14:30

on me after I put out the report? And you would have said,

14:33

yeah. He should have asked.

14:35

I am not beyond reproach. I

14:37

don't have the right credentials. I am not a retired

14:39

justice of the court, nor have

14:41

I ever been involved in the Trudeau Foundation. So

14:43

obviously, I don't have the proper CV to

14:46

have an opinion on this. I'm joking, but you

14:48

can't make this stuff up because the first guy to write

14:50

a report on Chinese interference was Morris Rosenberg,

14:53

who was the CEO of the Trudeau. It's

14:55

just like that's who gets to

14:58

have an official opinion about

15:00

Chinese interference, are people who

15:02

have a past with a charity that

15:05

benefited from this, that took money

15:07

from Beijing. And there's a report,

15:10

by the way, from this new investigative

15:12

journalism foundation that the Trudeau

15:14

Foundation

15:16

spent somewhere between $1 to $2.8 million

15:19

less than they were required to on

15:21

charity work. Wow. OK. There's

15:24

a larger question here. And I guess the

15:27

anti-Trudeau or whatever the conservative complaint and

15:29

the characterization is, that this is sort of like a phony

15:31

charity, that it basically exists

15:34

in this way that allows people to give

15:36

money to Trudeau without giving money to

15:39

Trudeau. And that

15:41

whatever good works they're doing, it all

15:43

benefits the Trudeau name, which benefits Justin Trudeau.

15:46

Right. That's a difference. I don't think he's

15:48

getting the money himself, but it burnishes

15:50

the brand. I think you could say with certainty that there

15:52

is promotional value for the Trudeau name in

15:55

the good works that Trudeau Foundation does. Right. I don't think he's getting money.

15:57

I think he's getting burnishing.

15:59

of like, I don't want to say slush fund,

16:02

but there's this charity, it's got a lot of money and

16:04

money moves around and who knows. And when there's

16:06

like a million to 2.8 million dollars

16:09

unaccounted for that was supposed to be spent on charity,

16:11

that sort of like adds to

16:13

the narrative.

16:14

And it's a problem. The whole board resigned,

16:16

right? The whole board of the Trudeau Foundation

16:18

resigned because of this complicated

16:21

donation that they couldn't explain

16:23

that came from Chinese sources,

16:26

right? It looks so bad.

16:28

Right. And then the Chinese published, I think, the most

16:30

generous to the Trudeau reading that you can come up with,

16:32

which is that like, maybe they're just

16:35

incompetent because the story that Johnston is

16:37

telling and that the Trudeau government

16:39

is telling is

16:41

we did not have intent

16:43

to block the investigation

16:45

of this interference.

16:48

We did not help the interference

16:50

or turn a blind eye.

16:52

We're just incompetent. Like,

16:54

that's the best it could possibly be, is

16:57

that all of these different players, whether

16:59

it's alerting Michael Chong to interference or

17:01

whether it's Bill Blair failing to act on CCS

17:03

intelligence or Trudeau himself failing to act on CCS

17:05

intelligence, we just

17:08

screwed the pooch on this. But he doesn't blame

17:10

Trudeau. He blames everybody else.

17:13

He blames the media, which of course, I

17:15

think is wrong because

17:18

they did the best job they could. And we wouldn't even be

17:20

here if it weren't for those, those investigative

17:23

pieces in the Globe and Mail

17:25

and in Global. He blames CCS

17:27

and he wants to hunt down the whistleblowers. So,

17:31

you know, everybody, everybody, but

17:33

the people that, you know, appointed me to

17:35

this. And then there's something else that I

17:37

noticed when I was looking at this. He's

17:40

put in a catch 22. So he's going to go

17:42

forward with this so-called

17:44

inquiry, which he will control. Everything's

17:47

going to be secret. Anything interesting

17:49

will be secret. But here's this interesting catch 22

17:52

that he slipped in. It

17:55

said that the opposition

17:57

party leaders must seek top security

17:59

clearance.

17:59

to view the

18:02

part of the report that is not public,

18:05

but then they are constrained

18:07

by the Security of Information Act. They

18:10

have to promise if they're

18:12

gonna be allowed to read the

18:15

secret parts of the report, there's a whole bunch

18:17

of the reports that's secret, if they're gonna be allowed

18:19

to see it, they have to promise

18:22

never to speak about it. Isn't that something?

18:24

It's really something. Hey, if you don't trust

18:26

me in my findings here, anybody can review this,

18:28

anybody can look at this, the opposition party is gonna look at

18:30

this, they just have to first agree not to say

18:32

anything about it. Yeah,

18:33

so then we'll never know. It's a

18:35

very strange message to the public. It's like, yeah, they

18:38

are aggressively fucking with our democracy,

18:41

but it's all private stuff that we

18:43

can't really talk about with you, and the government

18:45

hasn't acted improperly. Trust

18:47

me, trust me.

18:48

It's like a cop at a murder scene,

18:51

and they've put up a screen so you can't

18:53

see anything. And he goes, and everybody's

18:56

crowding around trying to look at it, he's saying, nothing

18:58

to see here, folks, keep moving on,

19:00

nothing to see here, keep moving on.

19:03

And so we have this huge problem

19:06

of Chinese interference, but we're

19:08

getting this screen up, and then we're getting

19:10

this special wrapper, as you call them, saying nothing

19:13

to see here, folks. The Chinese government

19:15

couldn't have asked for a better ally.

19:17

The Toronto Star reports that Chinese

19:19

community members who have been

19:21

complaining and asking for help

19:24

about interference from Beijing into Canadian

19:26

public life feel completely

19:29

dismissed by this finding.

19:30

Right, and I don't think he even

19:32

talked to them. Boy, if he was one of my students,

19:35

F. Yeah. The

19:38

outcome of this, Jan, like, this

19:41

is a stick that Polyev

19:43

is going to bang on

19:45

Trudeau's head, like, every day. The

19:48

only explanation for why Trudeau

19:52

did what

19:54

it looks like he did, and engineered this

19:56

to come to this conclusion, which is like, it's not like a politically

19:58

good outcome for him.

19:59

him, the only explanation

20:02

I can conceive of is that it's better than

20:04

the other potential outcome, which

20:06

is what if they are guilty? Like,

20:09

it's a little bit better than a public

20:11

inquiry coming to the conclusion

20:14

that the Liberal Party of Canada

20:17

was aware at several points of

20:20

urgent messaging

20:21

from the intelligence community

20:24

that Beijing was interfering in our democracy,

20:27

but that interference helped them.

20:29

And, you know, the title of Sam Cooper's

20:32

book, Willful Blindness, at some

20:34

point it became an active thing. And this has gone on

20:36

for years and years. Maybe it was I became a part of the culture

20:39

of Liberal Party to be kind of like, let's just

20:41

sort of

20:43

ignore. It's been happening for a long

20:45

time. And maybe it got to the point where like it

20:47

actually became in certain cases, like

20:49

maybe there's something really bad, you

20:51

know, like that is the only thing I can think of that would explain

20:54

as a coverup, this is like the worst coverup.

20:57

Like it's so ugly.

20:58

Could be just stupidity or only

21:01

thinking one chest move ahead. Like, oh, let's

21:03

not have anybody say that we did something wrong

21:06

and not looking to chest moves ahead. Like, like

21:08

you do or Pierre Polievre.

21:10

Right. I'm not comparing the

21:13

two of you. Don't worry.

21:13

I can't tell if I was just complimented or insulted.

21:17

I always make the mistake of thinking

21:19

that things matter in Canada. You know, like

21:21

how can this possibly I coin out,

21:24

I sputter. The public ultimately

21:26

kind of just like, eh,

21:27

made two for a weekend, whatever. They made it impossible

21:30

for the Canadian public to ever find out

21:32

what's going on. And this is a very serious,

21:35

very real, very ongoing problem.

21:38

This episode is brought to everybody

21:40

by Squarespace. You ever made a website?

21:43

Are you kidding? No, of course not. Why

21:45

is that a joke? You could make a website with

21:47

Squarespace. It's really hard for

21:49

me to even remember pin numbers. I mean,

21:51

if you could select a line of text

21:53

that says template website and

21:56

then hit backspace and then like write

21:58

Jan's website, then you can make a website.

21:59

a website with Squarespace. Oh, okay.

22:02

I would really love that. I think you should give

22:04

it a whirl. All of your books could live there. You could

22:06

sell your books. You could let people know where you're doing

22:08

readings, what you're up to. You could

22:10

blog. Who knows where it might

22:12

go? You could become an influencer

22:15

and then you plug in your social media accounts.

22:18

You could have special member areas where

22:20

you have like bonus content for your super

22:22

fans. I see this all.

22:24

You've sold me, except I don't have any

22:26

super fans. Not yet because

22:28

you don't have a Squarespace website. You

22:31

play the flute. You could include flute

22:33

content. There could be bonus flute content

22:36

on Jan Wang's website. I'm telling you, check

22:38

out squarespace.com slash CanadaLand,

22:40

Jan, for a free trial. When you're ready to launch,

22:43

use the offer code CanadaLand to save 10%

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off your first purchase of a website or domain.

22:49

Hmm. Sounds good.

22:52

Jan, we're going to duly note some stories that people

22:54

should be paying more attention to. What do you have

22:56

for us? Well, it's winding

22:59

down to the end of Asian Heritage

23:02

Month. And every year

23:04

I feel quite ambivalent

23:06

about this. I feel like,

23:09

how come I just get a month and all you guys get

23:11

the whole year? But I

23:13

also feel like, I

23:15

also feel like, like, can I get a discount

23:17

at Walmart this month? Or how about free

23:20

on street parking? Like it seems so empty

23:22

and you know, all this cultural stuff. Now

23:24

I understand it's serious because things

23:27

happen. Bad stuff happened. Like

23:29

this is the 100th anniversary

23:32

of the Chinese Exclusion Act passed

23:35

in 1923 when they slammed the door shut

23:37

on Chinese. And

23:39

of course, Japanese Canadians

23:41

were interned during World War

23:44

II and this ship full

23:46

of people, Sikhs and Muslims

23:48

from India were turned away from Vancouver

23:51

after keeping them floating in the harbour

23:54

for several months without giving them

23:56

enough food and water. So I understand

23:58

why, but I feel like

23:59

Asian Heritage Month is all

24:02

about happy dancing and

24:04

we'll get authors to talk. So

24:07

I feel, I

24:08

just feel very strange

24:11

about it. I don't know what to do with this.

24:13

It's like some well-meaning white person

24:16

decided to give me a month and I don't know what to

24:18

do with it.

24:18

Well, let me tell you what to do with it. I

24:21

want

24:23

to dually note just a quick update

24:27

to our story last week which went into some detail

24:30

about how the conservative leader was forming

24:32

a massive campaign against the

24:34

safe supply or safer supply

24:37

program. One of the measures to try to deal with the opioid

24:39

epidemic and he was mounting this massive

24:41

campaign to try to end it on

24:43

the basis of a extremely

24:46

flawed piece of reporting in the national

24:48

post.

24:49

And I wanted to update a couple

24:52

points of that. One is that Adam Zevo, the

24:55

author of that piece, though he

24:57

did not

24:58

respond to the criticism which

25:00

was widely shared, I did

25:02

note that as he continues to write about

25:05

this new opioid epidemic that he described,

25:07

the safer supply hydromorphone drugs are becoming

25:09

the new opioid epidemic, he softened

25:12

his language. So whereas he wrote

25:14

with certainty in the 11,000 word piece that

25:16

there is this new, it's as

25:18

big as OxyContin, it's a flood, it's a geyser, he's

25:21

now

25:22

using language like, it appears to

25:24

be a new crisis. So I guess that's the level of,

25:26

that's the corrections policy. That's the correction, right?

25:28

But more importantly,

25:30

I was kind of speculating like, wow, we

25:33

actually might get policy that

25:35

is based on this very

25:38

flawed national post reporting. And

25:41

sure enough,

25:42

last week Pierre Poliev went from a campaign

25:45

to a motion calling on the liberal

25:47

government to halt all programs, providing

25:50

non-toxic drugs to those suffering with addictions

25:52

and redirecting funding to treatment services

25:56

and essentially rehab and detox. Crime, chaos,

25:58

drugs and disorder, rage.

25:59

in our streets. Wow.

26:03

Etcetera. Etcetera. Duly noted.

26:06

This episode is brought to you by Peloton.

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Over the years, I have resolved

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Peloton app is available through free tier or

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paid subscription and paid membership start at

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sixteen ninety nine a month. This episode

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is brought to everybody by Canva.

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This is an app for graphics that I

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love. I use Canva for teams here

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at Canada Land. It helps to work

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on visuals, which

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are not necessarily the strong suit of audio

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people.

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And it kind of like empowers people

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who don't necessarily have strong visual skills

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use stuff. It's super intuitive. Are you

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a visual person? I think I am. It's

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cool. There's like AI stuff in this. It can

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slash Canada Land.

28:44

Can we talk about the mayoral

28:46

election in Toronto here? Yeah, I'd love to.

28:48

It's so exciting. All around the country, people

28:50

are like, oh fuck, here goes to the Toronto Centre. But

28:53

they're not going to turn it off, are they? They're not going to turn it

28:55

off. No, they got to listen. They hate us for talking

28:57

about ourselves, but they can't turn

28:59

away from it either. Or like a car crash.

29:03

No, this is exciting. It's not the same

29:05

old, same old. This is going to be a, it's really

29:07

fun race.

29:08

I just like was a little bit

29:11

checked out of it and then kind of came back

29:13

into focus when I started to read this like chorus

29:17

of polling and articles. Basically,

29:20

it's a fair, complete Olivia Chow is

29:23

the undisputed front runner. I'm like, what, what, what,

29:25

what?

29:25

Okay, well, I have to tell you,

29:28

I'm supporting Olivia Chow. And I

29:30

can say this, and this is an interesting

29:33

journalism thing. I couldn't ever say anything

29:35

for years and years and years if

29:37

I'm actively reporting, but I'm not.

29:40

And I'm so excited because I can actually

29:42

say I'm supporting her. So you

29:44

think this is a media kind

29:47

of chorus? I was watching

29:49

it and she didn't get much attention until she sort

29:51

of burst ahead in the polls.

29:52

That's it, I was kind of feeling like one of those blasts

29:55

from the past things she did

29:57

not seem like a strong candidate. Last time I heard her

29:59

in a debate, I'm like,

29:59

Wow. I was expecting a lot more of

30:02

a polished political performance from somebody

30:04

who's been in the game as long as her. And

30:06

then she got trounced and I thought, I guess that's it for her.

30:08

You're talking about previous race, right? Yes.

30:11

Yeah. So I was like, okay, I guess if she wants to run

30:13

again. But there were like, you know, other

30:15

people with similar politics who seemed a lot

30:18

fresher. So I was just not expecting to see

30:20

her name at the top of the polls.

30:20

Yeah, me too. I didn't

30:23

know. I mean, I know her, but

30:25

I'm not close. And when she

30:27

threw her name in the hat, I thought, oh, and

30:29

then when this other guy, Gil Panalosa,

30:32

who was this maverick character in the

30:34

previous election, he's

30:36

not a politician, but he's a city planner and

30:38

he's done all kinds of things. When he threw his

30:41

support to her, I started sitting

30:43

up and paying attention. And

30:45

then I started paying more attention to

30:48

Olivia Chow and I went, I think

30:50

I'm going to support her

30:50

because I like what she's saying. Also,

30:53

you know, there's over a hundred candidates

30:56

running with Toronto mayor. I'm

30:58

surprised you didn't run, Jesse. You and

31:00

I could have each run and then, I don't know, we could

31:02

have written about it.

31:03

If this guy, Brad Bradford, can run, then

31:05

I meant maybe could have run. I want to tell you, this is a

31:07

little digression here. Yeah, I got to digress

31:10

too. I got to digress too. You go

31:12

first. So Brad

31:14

Bradford, I don't know, he's like one number five or six

31:16

in the poll. Not a fringe candidate. He's not

31:18

going to win, but he was out there and

31:20

he was making the case about the housing crisis. And

31:22

he had, that was how these anecdotes. I know.

31:25

His friend Paul. He had his

31:27

friend Paul. Best friend, best

31:29

friend. Well, it didn't start off that way. It started off

31:31

as like, he knows there's this guy. There's

31:34

this guy, Paul. And Paul's

31:36

an example of how bad the situation is. Paul's

31:39

out there and he's got to spend a thousand

31:41

dollars for some basement

31:42

apartment. He can't afford to live anywhere

31:44

else. Can't even afford to move. And

31:47

then it comes out

31:49

earlier this week that Paul

31:51

is his childhood friend and the basement

31:54

in which Paul is living

31:56

is Brad Bradford's basement. Brad

31:59

is his landlord. I know, but I

32:01

got a Brad Bradford story. So

32:03

when I was working undercover for a series

32:05

on minimum wage and I was a maid, and

32:09

I had to find an apartment. You

32:11

went

32:12

all in on that one. I don't know if you guys can come to

32:14

stuff anymore. Yeah, I went all in. And

32:17

one of the people I called, one of the people whose ad I answered,

32:20

was Brad Bradford. Come

32:23

on. I'm not kidding. And

32:26

it was, I think, for a basement apartment, and I was cheap because

32:28

I was working as a maid. And

32:31

everything even then, I don't know, this is 15

32:33

years ago, I don't remember when. It

32:36

was really expensive, and I remember that I went to see it, and

32:38

it was so crappy I didn't want it. Wow.

32:43

So that's my memory. It's got to be the same guy. It

32:46

has to be the

32:47

same guy. If made mayor, predatory landlords,

32:49

such as myself. If

32:54

he's made mayor, I'm going to rent his basement apartment

32:57

and go out and watch him.

32:58

That's just amazing. Okay,

33:01

let's get back to Olivia Chow. Okay.

33:05

So this is what I think, this is why it's so delicious. And

33:07

this is why people who are not in Toronto can vicariously

33:09

enjoy this with us. Because

33:12

John Tory in the previous election,

33:15

which was like last year, he

33:17

swept a power with

33:19

a tiny majority of a splinter of voters.

33:22

Because no one bothered to vote. It

33:24

was so boring. And

33:26

then 10 minutes later, Doug

33:28

Ford gave him superpowers

33:30

as a mayor. And

33:32

superpowers in terms of real estate developers,

33:35

and we can do all this, and you can fire people,

33:38

and you don't need a majority of the votes

33:40

on City Council to pass stuff, important

33:42

stuff. You only need a third.

33:45

So it was shocking, right? We

33:47

found this out after this so-called mini sweep.

33:50

But then, another 10 minutes later, he

33:53

drops his pants in his office

33:55

and has an affair with one of his staffers,

33:58

which in the Mechu era, is a very good idea.

33:59

is not on. It's fine

34:02

if he wants to have it with his

34:04

neighbor like Mike Harris

34:06

did years ago, because she didn't

34:08

work for him in his office. So

34:11

all of this has blown out. Is that known or is

34:13

this like the latest one can

34:15

possibly drop a bombshell about Mike Harris? Is this

34:17

finally coming out now?

34:18

Oh no, I did the story years

34:20

ago and it came out. Okay. And no, no,

34:23

no, we reported it. You're just too young.

34:25

We've got the Mike Harris scoop. You're

34:27

too young. So

34:30

now we have as the front runner a woman

34:32

actually who looks like me. Finally,

34:35

you know, after decades of white

34:37

people, it's just really fun.

34:40

And she's left whereas

34:42

Tori was right. So the whole thing. But hold

34:44

on, hold on, hold on. The National Post

34:47

published a report on Monday that Olivia Chow

34:49

was meeting with organizations that support Beijing's

34:52

positions in Canada.

34:53

Okay, that's really interesting because

34:56

she's got some lefty supporters really worried.

34:58

Mm-hmm. So she drops in to this

35:01

lunch and she says

35:03

hi. And I listened to the tape of her

35:05

speech. And she said, hi

35:07

guys, let me tell you about the Chinese Exclusion

35:10

Act. And she's not speaking in Chinese

35:12

because she doesn't actually speak Mandarin. She speaks

35:15

Cantonese and they speak Mandarin because they're from

35:17

the mainland. So she needs an interpreter. She's

35:19

speaking in English. They're translating.

35:22

Yeah, when that National Post

35:23

story came out, I was like, why

35:26

are you even reporting this? Politicians go

35:28

all the time to Chinese banquets

35:30

and hope they get the vote. She's running for mayor

35:32

of all Toronto. Of course, she's going to make campaign

35:34

pit stops. And I just said hashtag

35:37

racism because I really think it's

35:39

a double standard. If you ask

35:41

her about Chinese interference and we know it's

35:43

happening, you got to ask everybody.

35:46

You got to ask all the candidates. Ask Brad Bradford,

35:48

you know, what's happening with him?

35:50

I agree. And it's like this. We can only

35:53

hold one idea at a time. Like, can

35:55

we actually get serious about China

35:57

and about the government? Obviously, there's...

35:59

a problem in our democracy without

36:02

getting into some peril situation where

36:04

Asian candidates are worthy of

36:07

news coverage if they buy chili crisp

36:09

in the grocery

36:09

store. Exactly. And they gave

36:12

her a big ass ugly vase as

36:14

if this is equivalent to getting

36:17

a vacation on a super yacht

36:19

and island hopping. It's

36:20

like, you know, you have to pay me. I like the relevance of the

36:22

ugliness. It's like not a nice vase.

36:26

And she's the last person that

36:28

would be influenced by Chinese

36:31

interference. Why are they inviting her? Because she's

36:33

a friend runner. Duh. They've

36:35

got to now deal with her if she wins.

36:38

So I just think there's so many

36:40

interesting angles to this

36:43

mayoral race. And I just

36:45

think it's going to be so interesting

36:48

to watch. I mean, it's still a month out, right?

36:50

It's also fun to watch candidates

36:52

like, you know, the former police chief.

36:55

It's nice that Doug Ford can't just install

36:57

a Mark Saunders, like, or at least that's seeming

36:59

difficult. That's what he's trying to do. And it's

37:02

not working. And after all these years

37:05

of the Fords sort of running

37:08

our lines and stomping

37:10

on us, it's so nice to see this powerlessness

37:13

as people actually wake up and go, wait,

37:16

Olivia Chow's running? What's she saying?

37:18

Oh, that sounds good.

37:20

All right. I'm going to keep an open mind. I

37:22

was not impressed last time I saw her.

37:24

Oh, you have to watch the debates. There's

37:26

debates. All right. And they're all attacking

37:28

her, which is really hilarious because then she gets 50%

37:31

of all the talking time. I

37:32

have a question for you, Olivia.

37:35

Well, my question is to Olivia. All

37:37

right. I'm plugging in. I'm going to check this out.

37:45

Jan Wong, that is shortcuts. Thank you.

37:47

Oh,

37:48

it's so much fun always. We

37:50

are on Twitter at Canada Land. I can be emailed Jesse

37:52

at Canada Land dot com. I read them all. Jen,

37:55

where can people find you?

37:55

They can find me on Twitter. I'm like the

37:58

last person still there. I'm At

38:01

writer Wong. I'm still

38:03

on Twitter too. This episode is produced by Aviva

38:05

Lessard with additional production by Caleb Thompson.

38:08

Our managing editor is Annette Ejofor. Our

38:10

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39:52

We're going to make a big deal about it. And, um,

39:54

the way that we make a big deal about stuff like that is by

39:56

doing things. We're going to be announcing a

39:59

lot of projects, a lot.

39:59

of special stuff. And all

40:02

of that is about support and

40:04

honoring our supporters and trying to get more

40:06

of you to become a part of this thing.

40:10

This is the first you're hearing about it. And

40:12

as we look ahead to that 10 year anniversary

40:15

right now, and for 10 days only, I'm encouraging

40:18

you to be among the first to join

40:21

us for our 10 year anniversary

40:23

for 10 days only, you can pay just $10

40:26

a month to become a champion, which

40:28

is our highest support tier. It

40:30

brings you all of the benefits, add

40:32

free feeds for all of our shows, our monthly

40:35

newsletter, discounts on our merchandise,

40:37

and a whole lot more. Listen, if you upgrade

40:39

your support right now within this 10 day

40:42

window, the first hundred of you who do so will

40:44

receive a limited edition 10th anniversary

40:46

tote bag. We don't have many of these things. 10 years, 10

40:49

days, $10 to be a Canada land champion,

40:52

come and be the first to help us celebrate our

40:54

first decade. Head to Canada land.com

40:57

slash join, become a champion

40:59

supporter today.

41:00

And I have a lot more to tell you going forward.

41:02

This episode is brought to everybody by Canva.

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I use Canva for teams here at Canada

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land. It is something that we use to

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do our work, to communicate with each other. We

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actually, for an audio company have

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to create a lot of visual content,

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all of our episode artwork, Instagram posts, graphics,

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sometimes just planning stuff. You can design

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and collaborate with Canva for teams

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right now and get a free 45 day

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Canada land.