0:00

Hey

0:00

there mom and dad are fighting listers. Before

0:03

we start the show, I wanna let you know about a

0:05

story coming up a little later. is from

0:07

our partners at visit Myrtle Beach.

0:09

From seaside

0:11

tiki bars to quirky themed restaurants

0:13

for kids, Myrtle Beach pairs real

0:16

tasty food with a real good time.

0:18

With sixty miles of beach and over two

0:20

thousand rest runs. Your best self

0:22

shines when you dine at the beach.

0:25

Stick around for a story that'll get you to

0:27

mark your calendar for your next trip

0:29

to Myrtle Beach.

0:33

Welcome

0:36

to mom and daughter Fighting Slates parenting podcast

0:39

for Monday, September twenty six,

0:41

Thestruggle Care Edition. I'm Elizabeth

0:43

Newcamps. I write the homeschool and family travel blog,

0:45

Dutch Dutch goose. I'm the mom of three littles,

0:48

Henry who's ten, Oliver who's eight, and Teddy

0:50

who's five. We live in Colorado Springs,

0:52

Colorado. I'm Jamila

0:54

LeMue, a writer, contributor to

0:56

Slates Care feeding parents in column,

0:58

and mom to Niemer was nine and

1:00

we live in Los Angeles. And

1:03

I'm Casey Davis. I wrote how

1:05

to keep household drowning, and I

1:07

run a TikTok channel at the handle

1:09

domestic blisters. And have a two

1:11

and a four year old You guys, we

1:13

are so excited to have Casey Davis

1:15

back with us to chat about her book, how

1:17

to keep house while drowning. But first,

1:20

we are diving into our mail Last

1:22

week, Zach shared how his daughter found

1:24

her art in the trash can so then he

1:26

felt super guilty and pulled the art out

1:28

of the garbage and is now saving it

1:30

indefinitely. thankfully, y'all

1:32

had a lot of advice. Hello, mom and

1:34

dad are fighting. Something that works well

1:36

for our family regarding artwork and schoolwork

1:39

in general is that on Fridays, We

1:41

have a group photography session where we

1:43

take pictures of everything that was done

1:45

that week in school. The pieces

1:47

that we are interested in saving go into a

1:49

sheet protector. which is then kept

1:51

in a binder. We use the two

1:53

inch binder for our daughter and

1:55

it has four years' worth of memories including

1:58

not only schoolwork, but copies

1:59

of school photos, her yearly sheet of

2:02

stamps that she gets from her grandpa, along

2:04

with letters to Santa, etcetera. We've

2:07

enjoyed very much every once in a while

2:09

looking through the binder together as a family.

2:12

Another

2:12

listener had this to say, Just

2:14

heard the episode where you threw it all out.

2:17

There is a good solution to help archive.

2:19

It

2:20

gives you a box and I just throw all the

2:22

artwork in and then one time per

2:24

year I will go through it and throw a good chunk.

2:27

But then the rest you send and the service

2:29

will photograph it and make a book a

2:31

poster or whatever. Saving

2:33

the artwork means I see progression of those

2:36

little things like the character they draw over

2:38

and over again or steadiness in

2:40

signing their name. You lose

2:42

this

2:42

when you sort the artwork straight away.

2:45

Lastly,

2:45

the obvious space saver of a single

2:47

book for mountains of our collages.

2:50

But getting to sit down with your kid after a year

2:52

or two and share their stories and yours

2:54

is something you can't recreate when it all

2:57

goes in the trash. So

2:59

don't throw it out. Put

3:01

it in an archive box. PS,

3:03

I do not work or have any affiliation to

3:06

the service. just a mom that was so happy

3:08

to have a solution to the same problems you all

3:10

shared. Well,

3:11

Casey, we thought it would be nice to have you

3:13

weigh in on the kids growing art piles.

3:16

Even with all this evidence, I'm still

3:18

firmly team throw it out, but

3:20

what do you think? We have

3:23

a little bulletin board with probably,

3:25

like, six or eight little, like, clamps.

3:27

And so when she brings home a and she's

3:29

now the age where, like, every Friday, the old

3:31

style of art comes home, And so,

3:34

like, I will ask her, like, let's pick

3:36

one of these to put up on the bulletin board.

3:38

And she'll pick the one that she likes and will

3:40

go up on the bulletin board. And then, like, I just wait a

3:42

couple days. And then I say, like, hey, are we done with these?

3:44

And she'll say yes or no. And I just ask

3:46

until she says yes. So then I throw it away.

3:49

Maybe

3:49

I'll regret that, but I just I

3:51

don't know. I

3:52

think these are both very good. Like,

3:54

this is a sort of parenting I aspire to.

3:56

I'm like, I wanna put stuff in a binder.

3:58

you know, like,

3:59

the archive I might be able to do

4:02

archive. I've got a

4:03

box of art from over the years

4:06

that at some point even though it's,

4:08

like, completely unorganized, so I don't know

4:10

what years from, you know, like, what's from

4:12

kindergarten and what's from first grade at this point.

4:14

But I think, at some point,

4:17

maybe throwing out an archive boxwork.

4:19

I love both of these especially the weekly

4:21

binder. I'm like, if only,

4:23

if I if I my brain works

4:25

that way every week, I would do the

4:27

same thing.

4:28

I know. I'm I'm impressed by weekly

4:30

photography sessions to

4:32

it. I mean, honestly, when I read

4:34

both of these,

4:34

I thought, yeah, but I have three kids, which

4:37

is not an excuse. So I'm like, now I

4:39

got three books. I agree.

4:41

I aspire to be this like organized,

4:43

but I'm still just gonna

4:45

throw it out.

4:46

Well, listeners, as always, you can always

4:48

submit your comments, advice, or questions.

4:50

We absolutely love them. As

4:52

you know, you can email us at mom and dad at slate

4:54

dot com. Let's take a quick break and when

4:56

we get back, we're gonna dive right into talking

4:59

with Casey about her book.

5:03

This

5:03

podcast is brought to you by Slate

5:05

Studios and visit my

5:07

Beach. In

5:08

Myrtle Beach, the choices are endless

5:10

when it comes

5:11

to eating out. There's fond

5:13

dining, there's bar food, there's

5:15

pizza places all have been down the grand

5:18

strand. That's Caleb Weigel.

5:20

He's

5:20

the author of the Myrtle Beach Mystery series,

5:23

and there's one meal at a farm to table

5:25

restaurant he still thinks about.

5:27

Its menu changes seasonally with whatever

5:30

is fresh. It's

5:31

called heirloom bistro. I never

5:33

experienced, you know, fine dining establishments that

5:35

like that before, where the

5:37

ambience is cozy and elegant

5:40

and you feel comfortable just just

5:42

walking in the door. the lighting's low,

5:44

there's candles everywhere. The

5:46

back wall is filled

5:48

with bottles of wine and and

5:50

the white staff as soon as you walk in the door, there's

5:52

one or two people there to greet you. Their

5:55

amazing chef just creates additions

5:57

based off what they're able to get from local farmers.

6:00

had a twelve ounce rib eye that was topped

6:02

with like gorgonzola topping. My

6:04

wife had this chicken dish. It was like marinated

6:06

in all these herbs and spices and it

6:08

just melted in your mouth. This was

6:10

some of the best chicken we'd ever had. When

6:13

it comes to your food options in Myrtle Beach no

6:15

matter what I'm craving, I can find it

6:17

and usually I can find it at a very high level.

6:19

In

6:19

Myrtle Beach, you have permission to

6:21

be who you are and eat what you like.

6:24

mark your

6:24

calendar for unforgettable dining

6:26

and a trip to the beach. Plan

6:28

your next getaway to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

6:31

at visit Myrtle Beach dot com.

6:36

Reboot your credit card with Apple

6:39

card. Apple

6:40

card is the credit card created by

6:42

Apple. It

6:43

gives you unlimited cash back every

6:46

day on every purchase up

6:47

to three percent. And

6:49

you can use that cash right away.

6:51

No waiting and waiting

6:53

for rewards. Just daily

6:55

cash you can use right away on

6:57

anything.

6:59

Apply now in the wallet app on iPhone

7:01

start using it right away.

7:03

Subject to credit approval, daily

7:05

cash is available via an Apple Cash Card

7:08

or as a statement credit. See

7:10

Apple Card customer agreement for terms and

7:12

conditions. Apple Cash Card is

7:14

issued by Green Dot Bank, member FDIC.

7:19

Alright. We are back and excited to chat

7:21

with Casey about her book how to keep house

7:23

while drowning, a gentle approach to

7:25

organizing and cleaning. On the

7:27

advice of a friend, I read the book and recommended

7:30

on the show a few weeks ago. And as I mentioned

7:32

before, I was just blown away. And I think

7:34

a lot of our listeners could really benefit

7:36

from some of your approach too. So

7:39

I'm a big reader of books that some classify

7:41

as self help and I just have to say your

7:44

book is incredibly user friendly.

7:46

Like, I knew I was gonna, like, at the minute I opened it,

7:48

it was like, if you only have an hour, here's how

7:50

to read this book.

7:53

Yeah, I think that

7:55

it's tricky writing a book about

7:57

how to survive when you're overwhelmed. because

8:01

the people who want to get that information

8:03

are overwhelmed and they probably don't

8:06

wanna want or can't read a book.

8:08

That is often true for

8:11

me. You spend

8:13

some time talking about this idea of shifting

8:15

the focus of care tasks from moral

8:17

to functional?

8:18

Can you talk about that and

8:20

why that's

8:21

so important?

8:22

So I think when it comes

8:24

to like housekeeping, and

8:27

care tasks in general, particularly

8:30

for women and mothers. We've

8:33

really been socialized as a culture to

8:35

believe that our ability to do care tasks

8:37

is really, really closely aligned

8:40

with our identity and our worth. So

8:43

it feels like a good mom has a clean

8:45

home, a valid adult,

8:47

you know, has their laundry folded, and

8:50

and all these other kind of messages that we

8:52

sometimes get from family and culture at large.

8:54

And I find that sometimes

8:56

the frustration behind, you know,

8:58

oh, I can't keep up is

9:01

around this idea that I believe

9:03

that I am a

9:05

broken failure if

9:07

I don't get all these things

9:10

done, the amount of us that feel

9:12

shame, which is like an interesting emotion

9:15

to feel about like

9:17

laundry. Like, if you're

9:19

gonna tell me you, like, hit somebody and ran away

9:21

and you feel like -- Shame. I'd be like, yeah. That makes sense. I'd be

9:23

like, you know, I screamed at my kid

9:25

and I feel so ashamed to be like, yeah, man makes sense.

9:27

I had an affair and I feel so ashamed totally.

9:30

I, you know, took my shopping

9:32

cart way out, and I just didn't wanna

9:35

put it back, and I left it for somebody else. And I didn't

9:37

feel a little ashamed about that. But, like, yeah, that makes sense. For

9:39

someone to be like, I didn't do my dishes

9:40

last night, and I'm so ashamed.

9:43

So

9:43

I'm like, wait. What? Like one of these things is not

9:45

like the other. And

9:48

I think it's because we

9:51

have been raised to believe that

9:54

if you struggle with things like showering or

9:57

laundry or dishes, that

9:59

the reason must be that you're lazy. You're

10:02

lazy and irresponsible and immature. And

10:07

who would love someone like that?

10:09

Our relationship to our home and to

10:11

caretass in general is really profound and

10:14

has a profound effect on our mental health.

10:15

So how do we break up with that

10:18

shame? How do we stop judging

10:20

ourselves based on our ability to

10:22

keep our household together? Well,

10:25

I think it starts with that awareness. Right?

10:27

Like, where did I get this message? And

10:29

I think that switch away from okay,

10:32

it's not about being right,

10:33

wrong, good, or bad.

10:35

What we're switching to is

10:37

this idea that you are a person

10:40

that deserves to function. Like,

10:42

you deserve to have a clean dish to eat

10:44

off tomorrow. You deserve to come

10:46

down your stairs and

10:49

walk into a space that

10:51

is setting you up for success.

10:54

Walk into a space where you can

10:56

make your kid's breakfast and put their clothes on

10:58

and get yourself ready and that you're

11:00

not experiencing this overwhelming

11:03

stress because

11:05

the space isn't functional to that.

11:07

Right? Like, when I pull that sippy

11:10

cup out from underneath whatever

11:13

piece of furniture I pulled it, and I'm walking

11:15

to the sink and I know what I am about

11:17

to find. I know I'm about to open it up

11:19

and rinse chunky milk out

11:21

of this nasty thing. Right? And

11:25

there are some reasons why, like, functionally,

11:28

that's not great because number

11:30

one, Time is always pressed in the morning.

11:32

So now I gotta spend extra time making

11:35

sure it's like very very well hand

11:37

washed. Maybe I have a kid that's hungry

11:39

that's gonna whine during that. It's gonna

11:41

stress me out to listen to the whining. Like,

11:43

there's a functional reason for me to

11:45

maybe take a moment the night before and go find

11:47

all the sippy cups and load them into the dishwasher and

11:49

run it. and it

11:51

can stress me out to not have something

11:53

functional. But there's this extra layer

11:56

where if we pull it out and we think, god,

11:59

Casey. You've

11:59

done it again.

12:01

Why can't you get it together? You

12:04

know, other moms aren't letting stuff go like this.

12:06

You're so disgusting. You know, how could

12:08

you not take care of the things that your kids

12:10

need. You're such a bad mom and you're opening it

12:12

and you're going, I can't believe I failed again.

12:15

You know, that is such a

12:17

big part of the distress we experience

12:19

in our homes. And

12:21

so when we are able to say, okay,

12:23

I understand that I'm experiencing that.

12:26

I understand these messages I'm giving to myself.

12:28

but just opening the door to

12:31

recognizing that that's not objective truth.

12:34

Like, that's a message that we've received at some

12:36

point and we can either choose to keep it or not.

12:40

Then we can begin focusing on

12:42

what is the functional reason. And so there is

12:44

a functional reason to for that sippy

12:46

cup sippy cup to go into the dishwasher.

12:49

But the nice thing about that is that there

12:51

are sometimes evenings where

12:53

I'm sick or I'm stressed or

12:56

there's something really good going on

12:58

where I'm gonna prioritize that thing

13:00

overgoing and hunting down the sippy cups.

13:03

And because

13:05

the Sippy cup is just functional, I'm

13:08

allowed to prioritize it anywhere

13:10

I want in my list of priorities. Some

13:12

days it's the top priority because I do want

13:14

my home to be functional for the morning.

13:16

Other days it's at the bottom because somebody's sick

13:18

or somebody's celebrating or I'm just freaking

13:21

tired and I deserve to clock out without

13:23

having to do every little thing. But there's

13:25

no value judgment and

13:27

where I'm putting that sort of in that list

13:29

of priorities when I believe

13:31

that I deserve to function, my kids deserve

13:34

to function. It just gives you so

13:36

much freedom to be able

13:38

to live your life according to your

13:40

values instead of the outside

13:43

pressure of what will my mother-in-law think

13:45

if she sees this.

13:46

I found freedom saying like, okay,

13:49

for me, the visual clutter on the main

13:51

floor is a problem because when I get down there in

13:53

the morning and that's where we homeschool, I

13:55

do not care what happens in the upstairs playroom.

13:57

So why am I picking it up every night? Why

13:59

every

13:59

night am I stressing out about all of this

14:02

stuff being? back. And

14:05

also then congratulating myself

14:08

on those functions, like, yes, all

14:10

my dishes. I may have dishes that are not washed.

14:12

but I have clean dishes to put

14:14

food on. Yeah. So those dishes don't necessarily

14:17

need to be washed. My kids have the clothes they

14:19

need clean for school Mount

14:21

Wash does not need to be completely finished.

14:24

Right? Because those expectations well,

14:26

that might I have five people living this house.

14:28

The laundry is never done. Like,

14:30

the idea that my laundry should be done. That

14:32

is a great like, I cannot meet that. We're

14:34

all wearing clothes right now. Yep.

14:36

Yeah. There's just a thing that's done. Yes. I

14:40

found freedom in this idea you talk about,

14:42

like, cleaning versus tidying versus

14:45

organized. And once I was

14:47

able to see my house as like,

14:49

no, I'm organized. Everything has

14:51

a place. It doesn't always have

14:53

to be in that place for me to feel

14:55

like, yes, I am organized. Right? because that's it. It's

14:57

important to me that my house be

14:59

organized. I was confusing that

15:02

with being like tight that

15:04

that neat meant organized if

15:06

that makes sense. So can you talk a little bit about

15:08

why that distinction is so important? Anytime

15:10

I talk to someone and they say, oh, I have so much

15:12

trouble with cleaning, like, I am

15:14

someone who it takes me hours and hours

15:17

to clean my room or hours hours and hours to clean

15:19

my house. Most of the time, what's happening

15:21

is that you have someone who

15:24

is trying to clean, tidy, and

15:26

organize all at the same time. And

15:28

they're actually different tasks. Tiding

15:32

is literally just five things. Like,

15:34

if you go into a room and you

15:36

see that it's messy, which just means

15:39

that things are kind of all over the place. If

15:42

you throw away all of the trash, and

15:44

then put all of the laundry into a laundry basket,

15:47

take all of your dishes to the sink, put

15:49

away all the things that have a place and then

15:51

take everything that doesn't have a place and either

15:53

find a place for it or frankly just put it in

15:55

a box. your

15:58

space is now tidy. It's

16:00

tidy. Now it's tidy. Right? Like, you

16:02

have space to move and function

16:04

and do the things that you need to do. organizing

16:08

is deciding, you know, it doesn't

16:10

really make a lot of sense that I'm keeping

16:13

the cleaning supplies in this

16:15

closet because I mostly use them

16:17

on this floor. And so when I'm

16:19

organizing, the question I always ask myself

16:21

is, if I needed this item

16:23

where in my house would I go

16:24

to look for it?

16:26

And then I go to that place and I go,

16:28

okay, let me find a permanent home like

16:30

organizing is about finding permanent homes

16:32

for all of your things that makes enough

16:34

sense to you, that you know where it is when you go

16:36

to look for it. And then

16:38

cleaning are the things that we think of of

16:40

like, you know, spraying some

16:43

sort of cleaner down and scrubbing

16:46

up, gunk off the table,

16:49

sweeping, mopping, those

16:52

sort of things. Right? They

16:54

can't all happen at the same time because in order

16:56

to organize, you have to take everything

16:58

out. But

17:00

in order to tidy, you have to put everything

17:03

away. And in

17:05

order to clean, you have to have

17:07

things put away and

17:10

sometimes moved, like, halfway put

17:12

away so that you can access a space. But then you have

17:14

to move the things out of their space. You can clean the

17:16

space that they're in. And so

17:18

you can see how this happens and then you, you

17:20

know, you walk into another room and you get distracted

17:22

or whatever. When I think about my space,

17:24

you know, I don't even say like need to clean my

17:26

kitchen. I typically go with language

17:29

like I need to reset my

17:30

kitchen because

17:32

it's not functional right now.

17:34

Right? So and so my kitchen is

17:37

not functional when maybe there's so

17:39

many dishes in the sink that I don't really have good access

17:41

to the sink. or if I've got

17:43

fruit flies or if there's not enough space

17:45

on my countertop to make food

17:47

or to do a hobby or if I'm like, sort

17:50

of stepping on little bits of things.

17:52

And so, like, you could clean

17:54

a kitchen for hours and there's still be more to clean.

17:56

but resetting my

17:58

kitchen is

17:59

probably a list of four things

18:02

that I can do in twenty five minutes.

18:04

And so it

18:06

makes it more it's less

18:08

ambiguous. It's a finite list.

18:11

It's not overwhelming. and just

18:13

sort of recognizing the differences

18:14

in those things can be really helpful.

18:17

For example,

18:17

we use the blender every morning

18:19

And after reading your book, I literally was like,

18:22

why am I putting the blender away

18:25

every day just to get it

18:27

back out? which I know doesn't take

18:29

me a lot of time, but it means that I have to wash,

18:31

hand dry. Right? Like, that is something in my head that

18:33

felt like, well, the kitchen is not clean from breakfast.

18:36

until I have put this blender away. Right?

18:38

All of a sudden, I was like, no, I just need to find a

18:40

space on the counter. Putting this away, like

18:42

that I made that up. That the clean

18:44

kitchen does not have a blender on a on the

18:46

counter that I use every day. And

18:49

I think thinking like approaching like you said

18:51

the words matter. That's where I felt like I just

18:54

felt seat. Like, oh my gosh. This is

18:56

if I eliminated enough of these little things,

18:58

I've eliminated this burden and given myself

19:00

ten more minutes. Yeah. When you said, like, oh, I

19:02

know it's not a big thing. It is.

19:05

And and I think it's interesting whenever

19:07

because I get that all the time, like, well, it would take you two

19:09

seconds just to put it away. And it's like,

19:11

yeah, if that was the only thing in my life that needed

19:13

putting away today, that'd be fine. But,

19:16

like, that stuff adds up. And every

19:18

parent knows that, like, you don't have enough time.

19:20

And the reality is, is

19:22

that I mean, it's kinda misogynistic because,

19:25

like, I know for a fact, there

19:27

are men being

19:29

paid six figure salaries to

19:32

shave two seconds off of production

19:34

times -- Yeah. -- in companies like Amazon.

19:37

and Apple. Right? But

19:39

somehow, bringing that type of

19:41

creativity and drive to

19:43

your sort of domestic sphere is

19:46

somehow, like, just do it the

19:48

right way, and I'm like, what there is no right

19:50

way, a, if it functions it's right, b,

19:53

what do you what just don't get

19:55

better, don't get more efficient, don't carve out

19:57

more time for myself. That seems ridiculous to

19:59

me. How

19:59

did you find sign to write a book? I

20:03

didn't clean my house very often. I

20:06

get a lot of, like, hate comments on it's

20:08

it's actually better now, but long time,

20:10

I got a lot of hate comments about how messy my house

20:12

was. Oh, wow. And a lot of those

20:14

comments of, like, you

20:16

know, if you just spent a little more time

20:19

you could have your laundry put up. you just spent

20:21

a little more time, like, you wouldn't have to have things on the

20:23

counter. So if you just spent a little more time, you wouldn't

20:25

have a messy playroom. And I'm like, Yeah. No.

20:28

No. I'm clear. Like, I'm super clear.

20:30

But, like, when do you think I got the time

20:32

to write a book? Like, that time

20:34

had to come from somewhere. You don't

20:36

you can't make more time too. Yeah. They

20:38

they look at themselves. Mhmm.

20:41

And

20:41

I was unwilling to cut out,

20:43

like, my rest

20:46

time. Like, since my kids

20:48

were born, I've always rested when they nap.

20:50

Like, I don't do productive things during their nap

20:52

time. And when they go to bed, I often

20:54

we'll spend, like, some time doing something

20:56

like that. And then I'll be, like, nope. I'm clocking out now.

20:59

And so when it came down to, like, okay, I wanna

21:01

write this book. So I could, like,

21:03

write it during nap times. I could do all and I was,

21:05

like, no. I'm

21:06

unwilling to do that. I'm gonna cut something else.

21:08

So I'm gonna stop folding my laundry. I

21:11

loved it. So

21:12

how does this show up in your relationship?

21:16

What kind of conversations do you have with your

21:18

partner about how to divide labor?

21:21

Do you both have a similar

21:23

approach to getting things done around

21:26

the house?

21:28

So usually when partners

21:31

are talking about division of labor, I think

21:33

we tend to start with okay,

21:35

well, how much do you work, and

21:37

then how much do I work, and

21:39

then we'll decide who

21:42

should take on what around the house. It's

21:45

not very productive because it's

21:47

often comparing apples to oranges. I

21:50

think when we get into a conversation with our partners

21:52

about who works

21:53

more. We've kind of already lost

21:55

because we're in a defensive position

21:57

of having to defend how much we're

21:59

doing And and

22:02

so what I like to say is that it doesn't

22:04

matter who works

22:06

more. Right? I'm not trying to make the work

22:08

equal we're trying to make

22:10

the rest fair. And

22:14

this opens up what I think is a much

22:16

more nuance

22:18

and an important conversation, particularly with

22:20

parents. Because you

22:23

could compare

22:23

hour to hour to hour

22:24

but unless you're having

22:26

that explicit conversation about, okay,

22:29

but as the default parent, I

22:31

I can't just walk out of the door on Saturday

22:34

when I decide I wanna work out. Like,

22:36

I have to, like, file HR paperwork two weeks

22:38

in advance to make sure you're gonna be here.

22:40

Right? You can't just

22:42

say okay, you be in charge

22:45

of, you

22:46

know,

22:47

paying the bills and setting

22:49

up appointments and you

22:52

know, like, things that can be done, like,

22:54

kind of on their own time and

22:57

then say, like, and I'll be responsible for

22:59

dishes and laundry and lunches, which are, like, things

23:01

that are gonna demand that you do them when they're

23:03

ready to be done. You can't

23:05

even people that are in sort of like traditional

23:08

gender roles where maybe like one partner is

23:10

working inside the home and one person is

23:12

caretaking at home, there is

23:14

a very big difference between a job no

23:16

matter how demanding that you can clock out

23:18

of. and a job where

23:20

you are consistently on

23:22

call twenty four seven engaging

23:25

in cyclical care tasks

23:27

that never end. And

23:30

so in order for someone

23:32

who is, you know,

23:34

doing a lot of care tasks to

23:36

rest, The other person is going

23:38

to need to step in and be able to do

23:40

some care tasks, and they're gonna have to decide

23:42

together that sometimes good enough is perfect

23:45

so that we can both sit down and rest. and

23:48

we have to make sure that the rest

23:50

is fair. It is not fair for

23:53

one partner to always

23:55

be on call, to have a list

23:57

so long that they can never sit

23:59

down because the list is never done. And

24:02

another partner that

24:04

can get everything on their list

24:06

done and still be able to

24:08

clock out or have lots of time for rest and recreation

24:10

and time autonomy. So there's just all

24:13

that to say, there's a lot more dynamics

24:15

that need to look at for an equitable

24:17

division of labor than just a list

24:19

of who's taking

24:20

out the trash. you

24:22

know, it's easy to talk about who's gonna take out the

24:24

trash, who's gonna unload the dishwasher, who's gonna sweep

24:26

the floor, but are you talking about who's

24:28

responsible for Christmas magic? Who's

24:32

responsible for your kids? Yes. Yeah.

24:34

Your kids mental health. Who's responsible for

24:36

RSV peeing to birthday

24:38

parties and then going and getting a gift and then

24:40

wrapping it and then, you know, making sure that there's

24:42

transportation to that gift and then going and socializing

24:45

with those parents, it it's

24:47

the whole thing. It's not

24:49

okay, I'll just take some list that my

24:51

partner gave me and like

24:54

leave her or him to know

24:56

all of the mental labor required to actually

24:58

carry that task. out.

25:01

I think that's such

25:02

a good point. And I and I we're gonna

25:04

end here, but Casey, I definitely want

25:06

you to shout out where people can find your work because

25:08

Your book is amazing and everyone should go get it.

25:10

But I think, like, your TikTok, your Instagram,

25:13

all of that I would love to share too because it is kind

25:15

of all of this in quick digestible bites

25:17

and that may just be where people are. Sure. So

25:19

I'm on TikTok at domestic blisters.

25:22

I'm on Instagram at struggle

25:24

care. And my website isstrugglecare dot

25:27

com, which is a great jumping off point to find

25:29

the book, to find the podcast, to find

25:31

the social media channels, my

25:33

podcast is calledstruggle care as well.

25:35

Okay, see, I'm so glad you could be here to give us

25:37

some advice and a little jumping off like we're gonna

25:39

take a quick break and when we come back, we'll

25:41

have recommendations.

25:46

Reboot your credit card with Apple

25:48

card. Apple

25:50

card is the credit card created by

25:52

Apple. It

25:53

gives you unlimited cash back every

25:55

day on every purchase up

25:57

to three percent. and

25:58

you can use that cash right away.

26:01

No waiting and waiting

26:03

for rewards. Just daily

26:05

cash you can use right away on

26:07

anything

26:08

Apply now on the wallet app on iPhone

26:11

and start using it right away. Subject

26:13

to credit approval, daily cash

26:15

is available via an Apple Cash card

26:17

or as the statement credit. See

26:20

Apple Card customer agreement for terms and

26:22

conditions. Apple Cash Card is

26:24

issued by Green Dot Bank, member FDIC.

26:29

We've been using Maltham to just

26:31

give Oliver a little extra help

26:33

in math. It's been so great because he gets to

26:35

meet online with the same person each

26:37

week. They help him work through some

26:39

of the math skills. I don't know about

26:41

you, but sometimes it's really hard when you

26:43

have to dig in with your kids on math,

26:46

it's like, it can lead to fights and they get

26:48

frustrated with you. And you're also kind of frustrated

26:50

because you don't know what's going on. Maltham

26:52

has devised a rate system with

26:55

rewards, which Oliver really responds

26:57

to. He loves kind of getting some of

26:59

the work done, getting those practice problems done

27:01

earning these stars that really motivates

27:04

him, and he looks forward to going so

27:06

that it's not a fight. And we have just seen his

27:08

confidence in his math skills grow.

27:11

Maltham mainly works with kids

27:13

in grades two through twelve. They

27:15

really are the authority on math education.

27:18

It's all they teach, so their experts at it.

27:20

Whether you're looking to get your kids back on track

27:22

or want to ensure they're staying ahead with their

27:24

math studies, find us at

27:27

matthews dot com and contact

27:29

them for a free in center

27:30

or online consultation.

27:34

It's finally time for recommendations, Jamila,

27:36

what are you recommending for us this week? This

27:38

week, I'm recommending the Woman King

27:42

starring Viola Davis. We

27:44

saw it last weekend when it

27:46

opened. It's really good. It

27:49

is violent. It's definitely not for

27:51

small children, but thought it was

27:53

a really it's a complicated story.

27:56

I think it's well told, very well acted,

27:58

and we should check it out. Did

28:00

you did not even miss it?

28:01

She did see it. And she liked it. Yeah. She liked

28:03

it. Yeah. She had to look away a few times.

28:06

But, you know, I think she was able to

28:08

handle it. That's

28:10

awesome. Casey, what are you recommending?

28:12

I am gonna recommend the

28:14

podcast maintenance phase. I've

28:17

gotten to the point where like anytime I need to

28:19

do laundry or dishes or put on my makeup

28:21

or like pick up, I'm like, if

28:23

I have a podcast, in my

28:25

little, like, wireless earbuds, all of a sudden,

28:27

it's tolerable. And -- Yeah. --

28:29

maintenance phase is my favorite podcast right

28:32

now.

28:33

Awesome. I am recommending science

28:35

comics. They are graphic novels about

28:38

a variety of science topics. They've

28:40

been a huge hit here and I love because

28:42

they're accessible to all of the kids I

28:44

have here. The five year old, like,

28:46

the pictures are enough to kind of tell story and

28:48

he can read enough of the little words. They're

28:50

kind of fun to read to him, but you can whatever your

28:53

kid is into, they have a book on

28:55

it. Oliver is dying over the science comic

28:57

about cats. So I'm sure you

29:00

can buy one for your kiddos. You can of course check them out

29:02

of the library or buy them at your local

29:04

bookstore. And that's it for our show.

29:06

We'll be back in your feeds

29:07

on Thursday, so be sure

29:08

to tune in. While you're at it, please subscribe

29:10

to the show and give us a rating and review on

29:12

Apple or Spotify This episode

29:14

of mom and daughter Fighting is produced by Rosemary

29:16

Balsman and Christie Tywell McEnjula.

29:19

For Jamila Lemio and Casey Davis, I'm

29:21

Elizabeth Newcamp. Thanks for listening.