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episode may contain explicit language. Welcome

1:04

to Care and Feeding, the show where we

1:06

parent together. I'm Elizabeth Newkamp. I write the

1:08

family travel blog Dutch Dutch Goose. I'm the

1:11

mom to three littles, Henry who's 12, Oliver

1:14

who's 9, and Teddy who's 7. We

1:16

live in Tokyo, Japan. I'm

1:18

Zach Rosen. I make another podcast. It's called

1:20

the Best Advice Show. And I'm dad to

1:22

Noah who's 6 and Ami who's 3. We

1:25

live in Detroit. I'm Jamila

1:27

Mu, a writer, contributor to Slate's Care

1:29

and Feeding Parenting column, and mom to

1:31

Naima who's 11. And we live in

1:34

Los Angeles. Today on

1:36

the show, we'll answer a question from a

1:38

listener who's dealing with that nagging feeling that

1:40

she's doing something wrong. Her toddler is behind

1:42

his peers and stuff like potty training and

1:45

talking, and this parent can't help but feel

1:47

like it's a failure on her part. We'll

1:49

offer some advice and reassurance that we hope

1:51

will be helpful. We'll also

1:54

share a round of recommendations. And then if

1:56

you're in the Slate Plus Club, I

1:58

have a dilemma, and it's something that we've talked about

2:00

on the show before so I come

2:02

seeking advice. Here's what you'll hear

2:04

if you have Slate Plus. To

2:07

me it sounds like you shouldn't do it. Just based on what

2:09

you've told us, I would say don't do it. Just

2:12

like keep doing my volunteer stuff. Yes,

2:15

you can be helpful in other ways.

2:17

The PCA is not the only avenue.

2:19

There's a reason other parents aren't joining. Yes,

2:22

yes, that's not your problem.

2:24

That's true. I totally

2:26

agree with that. If

2:30

you're listening on Slate Plus, thank you so much

2:32

for your support. We'll catch you later for your

2:35

exclusive segment. If you're not listening

2:37

on Slate Plus, we hope you'll consider it. There's no

2:39

better way to support the show. And

2:41

when you're a member, you also get ad-free

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listening on all Slate podcasts. Sounds

2:45

great, right? We think so too.

2:47

Go to slate.com/care plus for more

2:50

info. Or you can just subscribe

2:52

to the show on Apple podcasts for a little

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less money. The choice is yours. Alright,

2:56

we're going to take a quick break, but we'll see you

2:58

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Feeding. We're

5:43

back and it's time for our listener

5:45

question. Hey all, not sure if

5:47

I just need a pep talk or what. My

5:50

son is amazing. Funny, sweet, loving

5:52

and two and a half. So

5:54

also everything else that comes with

5:56

that. It's Han from Picky Eater.

5:58

Defiant at times. He

6:01

also has a slight facial aid. I

6:03

think I know in my heart my son

6:05

is in behind, but how do I shake

6:07

the feelings of utter failure as a mom

6:09

when younger kids start doing things before my

6:12

son? I don't want my son

6:14

to feel like I'm somehow disappointed in him, but

6:16

as a first-time parent, how do you shake the

6:18

feeling like you're always doing things wrong? We

6:21

are trying to look at preschools for next year,

6:23

and all the three-year-old classrooms want the kids to

6:25

be patty-framed. My son is in August's

6:27

birthday, so he won't qualify to be in a two-year-old

6:29

classroom, but he just doesn't seem ready

6:31

or interested in patty-training yet. The

6:34

monasteries that I looked at the other

6:36

day wanted him independently wiping and everything,

6:39

and all the other parents on the tour were so

6:41

confident that their little three-year-olds were up to the

6:43

task. Sigh. The

6:45

list goes on for how lousy I feel as a

6:47

parent, even though the teacher in me knows he's

6:49

doing just fine. Can anyone help me

6:51

get out of this funk? Independently

6:55

wiping? Are you kidding me? That

6:57

seems unrealistic. So, first

6:59

of all, I don't know who

7:01

these other kids are who are just ready

7:03

to independently wipe their ass at three, but

7:05

it wasn't my kid. It's not

7:07

your kid, and that's okay. But

7:10

back to the main point. You know,

7:12

you say that your son is amazing, funny, sweet, loving,

7:15

so that's true. Remember

7:18

that. I

7:20

think this is just a matter of a pep talk that I

7:22

think we can give you, because especially

7:27

as a first-time parent, what you're experiencing is

7:29

very normal. The

7:31

compare and despair, like, dude, I've

7:34

been there, I'm still there. It's

7:37

a constant struggle. I think it will always

7:39

be. But this

7:41

is your work, and so I think, yes,

7:45

you don't want your son to

7:47

feel like you're disappointed in him because he's not

7:49

doing anything wrong. He's a beautiful kid. And

7:53

as we often talk about in this show, like,

7:55

therapy, this is a great thing to discuss with

7:58

your therapist. the

8:01

courage that it takes just to admit that

8:03

you're feeling this, like that's really good. A

8:05

lot of people will bottle the feeling that

8:07

you're so eloquently articulating here. They'll bottle it

8:09

up and not talk about it. So keep

8:11

talking about it. But this

8:14

is normal. Get off social media. I don't

8:16

know if that's something that you're doing, but that's not

8:18

going to help because on social

8:20

media you'll find like a three-year-old who can like

8:22

play cello and cook dinner. And

8:25

so I would do that. And also just

8:27

remember back to where I started with the

8:30

with the potty training, we talked to

8:32

a constipation coach, Dr. Christine Stevenson on

8:34

the show last year. And she was

8:36

like, you can totally and should totally

8:38

wait until your kid is really excited

8:40

about sitting on

8:42

the toilet. So like this rush to get

8:44

them trained at three, I get it. There

8:47

are classrooms that require it, but there are

8:49

also some that don't require it. So don't

8:51

think that just because the few classrooms that

8:53

you visited are like, it's normal

8:55

that your kids should be independently wiping. Like it's

8:58

not, there's no normal. Yeah. The

9:00

Mayo Clinic says that like 22% of

9:02

children are out of diapers by two and a half and 88%

9:05

of children are out of diapers by three and a half.

9:08

That's still, I just want to

9:10

add to this talk, Jack,

9:12

that these other parents, they

9:16

have a better bluff face than you. You're

9:18

more in touch with, like there's no way

9:20

that everyone else on that tour has potty

9:22

trained kids. No. They just,

9:25

you are seeing them be like, oh yes, before

9:27

they go home and they're like trying to potty

9:29

train kids that are not ready. Yeah.

9:33

Statistically, it has to be true.

9:35

Yes. The Mayo Clinic collects data.

9:40

Look into school, you know, look

9:42

at some more preschools. My daughter's

9:45

preschool actually potty trained her. Like

9:48

it was incredible. We

9:50

did not have to, like, I

9:53

have no memories of potty training. You know, it

9:55

was just a very simple process because they were

9:57

doing it at school. kids

10:00

go to the bathroom, you know, the

10:02

bathroom was right there

10:04

and it was open and seeing

10:06

their peers use the potty made

10:08

them want to do it too.

10:10

Also, kids change so fast. Like

10:13

the difference between now and starting

10:15

school next year is long. It

10:18

is long. A lot can happen

10:20

in that time, potty training wise. I

10:22

wonder on the potty training question if it

10:25

isn't worth calling the school and finding out

10:27

like, is this a desire or is this

10:29

really required, right? I

10:31

just also think we talked

10:33

with the constipation coach about how schools want

10:35

them to be potty trained because of course

10:37

there's whole different regulations if you have to

10:39

be changing diapers and all of that. But

10:42

not every kid that goes there

10:44

is fully potty trained. What do

10:46

we actually have to achieve? I

10:50

think there's like the second, so like there's the

10:53

potty training issue, but there's also this issue of

10:55

like your kid is, you

10:57

feel that your kid is behind. And

11:00

I think Zach you covered it well that that's like

11:02

your issue. I

11:05

think too the best thing is to one

11:07

sit with that and think like what are

11:09

they actually behind on

11:11

and does that quote unquote behind

11:13

matter, right? There are things like

11:16

if you're behind on speech or

11:18

some milestones, I think

11:20

the important thing is to say

11:22

like, okay, is this something that

11:25

needs intervention because we know that

11:27

early intervention for things like speech,

11:29

motor skills is really important to

11:31

lay a good foundation, but not

11:33

because being behind quote

11:35

unquote behind is somehow bad, but because

11:38

kids develop at different rates and

11:40

perhaps your child needs some

11:42

more support in some of these areas.

11:45

But I think that that is really different

11:47

than feeling that they are behind

11:50

and therefore going to miss out

11:52

on something. So

11:54

I don't want to say like my initial instinct is

11:56

to be like, all of this is made up, like

11:59

these things are made up. There are

12:01

things, speech,

12:03

motor skills, consistent

12:05

trends and things that your child

12:07

just isn't meeting at the

12:09

same time of their peers. That can be

12:12

indication that you need to look into it

12:14

further. But none of that should make you

12:16

feel that your child is not enough or

12:18

you're somehow missing out on something. Kids

12:21

at this age, it's like a growth

12:23

spurt. They will go from not doing

12:25

anything to doing it all overnight.

12:28

And you just have to support

12:30

and wait for them, for their

12:32

body, their mind to be there.

12:36

And you can always try

12:38

to make Patti's training compelling.

12:42

Put fun stuff in the bathroom,

12:44

buy one of those cutesy little

12:47

kid Patti's that's colorful and

12:49

fun looking. Have activities

12:51

in the bathroom for him, little

12:53

soft touch books that kids can

12:55

look through themselves

12:59

and a favorite toy

13:01

and offer a treat as

13:03

a reward for when he

13:05

goes into the Patti. Don't give

13:08

up on it just because he's not

13:10

showing big interest in it yet. At

13:12

least try. And again, like Zach said,

13:14

it works best when your child is

13:16

ready, when they want to do it,

13:19

when they're enthusiastic about doing it. But give

13:21

him reasons to be enthusiastic about it. I

13:26

also think you need to find a friend

13:28

you can vent this stuff to. That's

13:31

something that really helps me is having the friend that

13:33

I can call and be like, oh, I was just

13:36

on this play date with so and so and their kid

13:38

is doing all this or texting. And

13:41

she's just, oh, my kid does this, my

13:43

kid does that. And it's making me feel

13:45

like Henry's behind or whatever. And for your

13:47

friend to be able to mirror back to

13:50

you like, OK, but your kid does all

13:52

of these things. Like you you you can

13:54

have somebody

14:00

that is going to be that mirror. I also

14:03

found when I feel

14:06

like this that taking some time every

14:08

night and writing down one or two

14:10

things that my kid did that was

14:12

awesome or that I really appreciated was

14:15

really helpful to sort of end my

14:17

day thinking about all of the things

14:19

that they are doing just to bring

14:21

myself back to reminding all

14:23

of these things that you said funny sweet

14:26

loving and what

14:28

amazing qualities those are even

14:30

if some of the other things are sort of more

14:33

challenge areas like we're all made up of

14:35

areas that are easier for us or that

14:37

are you know super great and areas that

14:40

are harder and not so great and

14:42

so I think it's okay to already sort of say these

14:44

are the things that we still have to work on are

14:46

the things we have a harder time with but look at

14:49

all of these amazing things to reframe

14:51

your own mind so that in the

14:53

morning when you wake up and you're

14:55

ready to re-engage with your kid that

14:57

you're you know in

14:59

that mindset of like this is a

15:01

great kid and and we are we are

15:04

like this great family all right well

15:06

I do feel like this is so relatable I

15:08

don't if you're out there and this hasn't ever

15:11

happened to you what is the secret don't

15:14

we all constantly

15:16

feel like like we're behind we're

15:19

not doing everything we can we hope

15:24

some of this advice has helped you and

15:27

as always listeners we want to hear from

15:29

you let us know you can email us

15:31

at Karen feeding pod at slate comm or

15:33

leave us a voicemail six four six three

15:35

five seven nine three one eight we're always

15:37

curious to know what you think or if

15:40

you have any advice we're gonna

15:42

take one more break and see you back here

15:44

for recommendations families

15:56

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right, let's move on to recommendations. Jameela,

17:55

what are you recommending? I

17:57

am recommending this is just for parents.

18:00

And. Million. Dollars

18:02

you with your kids, but

18:04

I recommending baby Reindeer on

18:06

Netflix. Have. Either of you are mean

18:08

n. Know oh my

18:11

goodness it's it's really fascinating

18:13

as limited series about this

18:15

guy who starts getting stopped

18:17

by this woman and. Who.

18:20

Comes in to the pub

18:22

where he works and it

18:25

is a really fascinating exploration

18:27

of not just talking bad.

18:30

There's also an a

18:32

sexual assault fame bad,

18:35

you know, You don't

18:37

often see with male characters and

18:39

him being a victim and prices

18:41

thing as and being vulnerable about

18:44

it and is is really fascinating.

18:46

It's really well as Did and

18:48

Baby Reindeer on Netflix. I think

18:51

it's about seven episode blah. But.

18:54

Of course I do have a

18:56

parenting related recommendation as well as

18:59

my recommendation is when you travel

19:01

with as her kids unless you

19:03

can bring them back a really

19:05

cool souvenir. Don't. Bring

19:07

them back a souvenir. I'm. Like

19:10

I said on the previous episode I just

19:12

came back from Kan Coon. We didn't go

19:14

anywhere where there was any real sobbing and

19:16

south looking to the airport like a lot

19:19

better get something for name of. and like

19:21

her having a t shirt that says Kan

19:23

Coon is not going to do anything for

19:25

her life you know like she's to all

19:27

respect animals. I could have brought some candy

19:30

from duty free. But we're trying to why so

19:32

sugar? So. I said you know I am

19:34

going to relieve myself from the guilt. When

19:36

she was younger I did typically bring her

19:38

thing fact for my travel by have always

19:40

had to bring her back saying that she

19:43

would actually like. So if you can find

19:45

something that really like does something for your

19:47

kid don't do it. A kid is not

19:49

need a t shirt were key saying or

19:51

immigrant from a place that they've never been.

19:54

And care. She was so happy that

19:56

your background. Bombing Isis I say when

19:58

picked her up at school yesterday. Why I

20:00

was waiting for her in the parking lot. The come

20:02

from dance crisis and then I just hear. Salvador

20:04

eat out. She's. She's

20:07

standing next to me. Yeah, Gave

20:10

me the biggest hug. Zach:

20:13

What are you recommending? I'm recommending

20:15

a piece in the. In

20:17

the upcoming Food Is You of a

20:19

New Yorker by Alexander Swartz, it's called

20:21

when babies rule the dinner table. In

20:24

the past two decades, American parents have started

20:26

to disappear as and give babies more choice

20:28

and more power and mealtime. So it's a

20:30

piece about the kind of evolution of baby

20:32

led weaning. And

20:34

it's got these incredibly beautiful photos

20:37

of kids stuffing their face with

20:39

different like a May. Amazing food

20:41

that. My. Kids would need because

20:43

I didn't baby led weaning like spaghetti

20:46

and sardines. And it's just like beautiful

20:48

photography of the cutest kids. But I

20:50

wanted to read one excerpt because it's

20:52

Bieksa. It speaks to are so you'll

20:54

hear wife. And

20:56

Eighty Ninety Four, the Pediatrician Luther

20:58

Emmett Whole published The Care and

21:00

Feeding Have Children. A. Catechism for

21:03

the use of mothers and children, nurses

21:05

and enormously influential guy that ushered babies

21:07

into an age of abstemious blandness. A

21:09

child's first non milk foods had big

21:11

rule. Holt instructed in one edition beef

21:14

juice should be offered at five or

21:16

six months if the infant was sickly

21:18

and anemic at ten or eleven months.

21:20

if she was hardy and robust. next

21:23

might come coddled egg whites and a

21:25

few sips of orange juice. And eighteen

21:27

months some prune pop or baked apple

21:29

could be allowed, along with stale bread.

21:31

at two. Years Baked potato. The

21:34

flavor was bad for babies. hold believe

21:36

texture to be even worse no child

21:38

can be trusted to to meet properly.

21:40

He warned all omelets or objectionable. As

21:42

for green vegetables, they must be cooked

21:44

until very soft and mast or preferably

21:47

put through a sieve. So I'm with.

21:49

We've come a long way. Baby.

21:52

Babies and it's It's a fun,

21:54

it's fun read. And

21:56

I'm an adult. Egg. Whites and

21:58

orange juice yesterday. I'm guessing. Bottles

22:02

of beef juice. No,

22:06

the pictures are so cute and I'm a

22:08

big fan of baby blood weaning so I

22:11

thought it was great. Yeah. Great.

22:14

I only read it because the link was in our... Uh-huh.

22:17

You shared the link. Yeah, I mean what some of these kids

22:19

are eating at such a young age is incredible.

22:23

Elizabeth, what are you recommending? I

22:25

have a very, like, I feel like I was inspired

22:27

by Earth Day to recommend this

22:30

book that we have called Can I Recycle This?

22:32

A Guide to Better Recycling and How to Reduce

22:35

Single Use Plastics. This sounds

22:37

really boring but it is a beautifully

22:39

illustrated guide. There's both a kids version.

22:42

The kids version I would say is probably for like

22:45

four to eight year olds but what I really like

22:47

is that the kids version actually has stuff the kids

22:49

can do. It's about

22:51

the decision making. It is

22:53

not preachy. I would call it more

22:56

of a beautifully illustrated reference book. We

23:01

were gifted the adult

23:03

copy. I bought the children's version and it

23:06

kind of lives now in our kitchen because

23:08

it's a great way to sort of look at what

23:10

you can recycle. It's a little

23:12

less helpful here in Japan just because it's... They

23:15

have... Hold this. The recycling here is... It has

23:17

to be done a very specific way but

23:19

it has these great tips on

23:23

the decisions that you're making for single

23:25

use plastic, easy ways to not do

23:27

that and what you can actually recycle

23:31

and how to kind of pull apart packaging

23:33

to be recycling the right things. It's

23:36

really lovely and I feel like if

23:38

you are trying to recycle it also

23:40

explains to both adults and children what

23:42

is actually getting recycled, what's not getting

23:44

recycled, what things make sense to recycle.

23:46

There are some things that we are

23:49

recycling that doesn't really make sense to

23:51

recycle. So anyway, it's a beautiful reference

23:53

book. It's called Can I Recycle This?

23:55

A Guide to Better Recycling and How

23:57

to Reduce Single Use Plastics by Jeannie

23:59

R. Romer. By. The way

24:01

if Japan like more evolved their cycling

24:03

practices and we are so. Yes were

24:06

like everything has to be separated

24:08

but the use a single like

24:10

the. Everything is wrapped in

24:12

plastic. So I'm very like torn on

24:14

whether we're doing better here are not.

24:16

And because they literally every piece of

24:19

fruit, I get his wrath to the

24:21

piece of plastic. and no, One carries

24:23

reusable water bottles. We. Have.

24:28

Like everybody is buying them for. Vending

24:30

machines, but there are no trash

24:32

cans available in Japan, so you

24:34

carry. All your trash home. And

24:37

then everything gets sorted. and if you don't

24:39

sort it properly, they do. Not pick

24:41

up your garbage know like cardboard. It's

24:43

all tied and box together every day

24:45

as a different pick up. So they

24:48

do like like worst sorting everything that

24:50

we have special scissors to cut the

24:52

stuff apart so. I'm unclear

24:54

I had not delved into what it's

24:56

like happening with that but we like

24:58

wash every piece of garbage like the

25:01

only such going into. The Burnable

25:03

is like actual burnable southern

25:05

food waste. There's

25:07

no like lant we don't have room for landfill. So everything

25:10

is getting. But. We have huge

25:12

incinerators here that we are three think

25:14

that's also like questionable So via. Unclear

25:18

would need an expert. To assist. But

25:20

it feels like I'm doing more

25:23

because I'm thirsty. Everything but I.

25:25

I am. A.

25:27

We have been able to like i think

25:29

through this book to like really understand and

25:31

even things that are at of like did

25:33

you know kiwi skin is edible maybe everyone

25:35

and like of eating it is good for

25:37

you. Have heard of people give a very

25:39

good at a gas drilling. There's. Things that we

25:42

taught that I feel like I grew up

25:44

tossing that actually we should be eating which

25:46

of courses in. Some. Way away. A pro

25:48

cycling breathing. Cove.

25:51

Listeners We always want to hear what

25:53

you're loving. So seriously. Reach out

25:56

to conversation going. We

26:00

were waiting. Interview and of your

26:02

for this episode of Parents Produced

26:04

by More A Curry Shushannah Leonardo

26:06

the with our listeners Elisa My

26:09

summary justly. Audio. Mail

26:11

at Soccer an I'm Alyssa camp. No

26:25

way his away before you.

26:28

Went off the nunnery based on

26:30

to you. He. Makes

26:33

the car behind them. On

26:36

out about the. Same

26:39

a job, Was an athlete and only

26:41

pay me based on you. Know

26:45

the little any receipts of to the terms and conditions.

26:47

Reading that doesn't seem very and infancy to read could

26:49

increase with i was driving all seats I casually insurance

26:51

company, the Phillies. To pick illinois.