0:00

Remember the first Robin Thicke music video . He had the long

0:02

hair , with no shirt , and he's like riding through New York City

0:04

and he's da-da-da-da , and he's like doing his thing

0:06

. That was me . I was in the flow . It

0:08

was end of day two , toward the end of day two , and I'm like

0:11

I got this and I'm coming down with my

0:13

little backpack , turn the curb . I got

0:15

skipped like a rock . You

0:25

would have thought Thanos was real and picked me like about 30

0:28

feet and that's when I said I'm done with that . So I was all over . I was doing all these

0:30

things and I think for me , in terms of just how you get over that adversity and how you

0:32

got out of it , on the other side , I

0:34

think sometimes it's just sheer will .

0:37

Welcome to Career G-Code . In this podcast

0:39

, you'll hear how everyday people impact the world through

0:41

their careers . Learn about their journey , career

0:43

hacks and obstacles along the way . Whether you're

0:46

already having the impact you want or are searching

0:48

for it , this is the podcast for you .

0:51

Ian , welcome to the show .

0:52

Hey , thanks brother , appreciate you having me here , ryder

0:55

, real excited , real excited About time

0:57

had me waiting .

0:58

Yeah , for sure . You and I have had this conversation

1:00

about this interview

1:02

for a while , so I'm just glad that it's coming together

1:04

at this point . Let's dive right in , man . Let's tell

1:06

the world what it is you do for a living .

1:12

Yeah , so I'm Chief Program Officer at Bedford-Stuyvesant Restoration Corporation here

1:14

in Bed-Stuy , brooklyn . Been in the role pretty new now to it

1:16

. Been in the role for about six weeks now

1:18

, but essentially I'm overseeing

1:21

all of their programmatic work to

1:23

drive economic impact to

1:25

the central Brooklyn community , all toward

1:27

disrupting the racial wealth

1:29

gap . Got it ? Is this what you ?

1:31

always wanted to do for a living .

1:32

Growing up ? No , no , it

1:34

wasn't . I spent a lot of time vacillating

1:37

between what I wanted to do and figuring

1:39

that out . At one point I wanted

1:41

to be a professional athlete

1:43

. I was big into baseball growing

1:45

up as a kid and then I

1:48

got into the practice and watching

1:50

that TV show for some reason put

1:52

a habit into me of wanting to always be

1:54

right with people as a kid and I really liked having

1:56

a good debate about stuff . So I wanted to be

1:58

a lawyer and kind of stuck with that . But

2:00

my journey , as life

2:02

does , as life goes right , you go in

2:04

so many different , unpredictable directions . You

2:07

think you know what's coming , but we

2:09

don't . We just don't . So it

2:11

led me here , to where I'm at now . Got it

2:13

All right . So let's backtrack . Where'd you grow ?

2:14

up ? Where were you born ? What was your

2:17

upbringing like ?

2:17

I grew up in Jersey , northern New Jersey

2:20

, in a town called Hackensack

2:22

. For those that are familiar

2:24

, don't hold it for or against

2:26

me . I was born in LA

2:29

, though , to a single mother , and

2:31

I have a little brother as well

2:34

, but we moved from LA . When I was

2:36

three , she had 85 cents in her

2:38

pocket , me in a stroller and

2:40

my brother in a belly , and

2:42

we had nowhere to go

2:44

. We were lucky enough to be taken in

2:46

by a family , just a caring family

2:48

, and as

2:51

a kid all I knew was that we were in

2:53

these folks' homes . They were not blood relatives

2:55

, but they were family , and I lived there

2:57

up until I was about 10 years old , and I saw

2:59

my mother during that time put herself

3:02

through school at a local community college

3:04

sorry , not Bergen Passaic County Community College

3:06

. She ultimately ended up teaching at Bergen

3:09

County Community College for respiratory

3:11

therapy and then saw her work no

3:13

less than two to three jobs at

3:15

any given time . In fact , my entire life . She's

3:17

always had two jobs when

3:20

she was working at the hospital . She would also

3:22

teach part-time as well

3:24

, and so I saw my mother do things all the way , from

3:26

house cleaning to photography

3:29

and being like background and lighting for

3:32

that kind of stuff . And I was with her to

3:34

see that because she had no one to watch us , me

3:37

and my little brother when we were little all

3:39

the time . So I got to see firsthand

3:41

, you know , what hard work looked like , what hustle

3:43

looked like , what it means

3:46

to say you want to go for something

3:48

and really not necessarily

3:50

know how you're going to go about doing it , but just

3:52

having faith and belief , you know , and your

3:55

strengths and your ability to just

3:57

just get it done , to make it happen

3:59

. And that was very contagious

4:01

for me . But yeah , that's that's where

4:03

I grew up on the first part of my

4:05

years as a young kid . At

4:08

10 , I moved over to Hackensack from

4:10

Teaneck , new Jersey , and that's where I started to form

4:12

the relationships that I

4:14

built throughout my childhood and that I have now , even

4:17

to this day . And it was really there

4:19

as a kid . I remember at 10

4:21

, we were moving and I thought I said to

4:23

my mother the kids in Hackensack coming

4:25

from Teaneck , new Jersey , you

4:27

know the kids in . Hackensack . You know they

4:30

got their stuff together . You know they look

4:32

like grown adults . We're all scared

4:34

of them because they were big and tough and good at football . I

4:40

just thought at 10 , I was supposed to be paying rent or something if we're

4:42

moving to this new place . Right , and I think , looking back on it , my subconscious

4:44

was I was definitely connecting

4:46

with what I had , what I was observing right

4:49

as a kid , with my mom working

4:51

these multiple jobs , trying to put herself through school

4:53

, staying up all day , all night and then

4:55

ultimately moving over to the night shift when she

4:57

finished school for about 1011

5:00

years , while still showing up to all our

5:02

baseball games and our track meets

5:04

and everything like that . And so

5:06

in Hackensack , it was really where I got to

5:08

see , because I was of an age to

5:10

be able to process these things , all

5:12

the things she was trying to balance . It was

5:14

very , most would say , aspirational

5:17

, others might say aggressive , but if

5:19

it were not for that , I don't

5:21

think I'd be here where I am today .

5:23

Absolutely . I mean , those are the early age

5:26

, formative years that bring your perspective in

5:28

life , right . That just kind of let me know what

5:30

that hard work looks like , seeing

5:33

a single mother . A few questions there . One

5:35

, how much older are you than your

5:37

younger brother ? And then two , as

5:39

you're seeing this unfold , right , and

5:41

you're kind of of high school age

5:43

, talk to me about what kind of student you were at that

5:46

time and what you

5:48

thought you were going to be able to like do in

5:50

life at that point .

5:51

Yeah Well , my brother , my younger brother , he's

5:53

four and a half years younger

5:55

than me in high school in terms of I'm

5:58

sorry , it was a question , just what I'm , what I want to do , what I

6:00

wanted to do when I was in high school , you know and I think part of it

6:02

right , because you mentioned like you wanted like basically

6:04

pay rent at that age right .

6:06

And I think that comes with like seeing your

6:08

parents kind of struggle and go through it and

6:10

feeling like you need to be much

6:13

more grown than you are at that age

6:15

, when at the age you really just needed to go playing

6:17

hide and seek right or whatever

6:19

right . But you know , I think in

6:21

some ways like and I parallel this a lot to my

6:23

story like my mother is a single

6:26

parent immigrant that came

6:28

to this country Same

6:32

thing right , with no niggles in her pocket and trying to figure things out , and then you get here

6:34

and similarly she found interesting that you said you know

6:36

kind of like this extended family , but she found

6:38

like a human that just took care

6:40

of her while she was here , while

6:43

she kind of set up her life

6:45

from sleeping on a couch to then sleeping

6:47

in a room , to then getting her own apartment and

6:49

then getting me to come to this country

6:52

, right . So like I understand

6:54

, like seeing someone kind of go

6:56

through that and what that does for you at an early perspective

6:58

, at an early age , you're like , ok , this

7:00

is what I need to do . I need to make sure she's fine

7:02

, I

7:05

need to make sure we get in a better situation . So I would just I'm just wondering

7:08

what you were thinking that outlet was for you at that

7:10

age . If it was sports , if it was something

7:12

else that you're like , you know what I want to be able to like to

7:14

do something .

7:15

Oh yeah , for me . For

7:17

me , a lot of my childhood . I heard

7:19

the phrase you know when it's your money , you have a

7:21

job , you can get it . So

7:23

that was you know I look . I

7:32

may look young , but I'm old enough to remember what it's like to have to call , collect and

7:34

always make sure you have 25 , and then it went up to 35 cents in

7:36

your pocket to be able to make a call for you and , you

7:38

know , to be able to talk to folks . And

7:40

that was even in the early days of people starting

7:43

to get phones and pagers and beepers . So

7:45

for me , my outlet

7:47

was again going back to just all

7:50

right , if I need to make money , then the first thing I want

7:52

to do is make money . How can I do that

7:54

outside of allowance or whatever ? When

7:56

I found out I can get working papers at 14

7:59

at the time , that was what started

8:01

it all off , and so , in addition

8:03

to my mother was around 14 , where another

8:06

really important , prominent figure came into my

8:08

life . His name is Andre Reese , but I

8:10

call him Pop . At the time

8:12

I found myself getting caught

8:15

up being a teenager , partying

8:17

, drinking , and I got

8:19

caught up one evening and my mother found out

8:21

, got grounded for a few months and I

8:23

was introduced to Andre Reese , a teen addiction

8:26

counselor , and we developed

8:28

a really tight knit relationship in

8:30

the first few years of knowing each other and

8:33

we just let that blossom

8:35

and it grew to something way more

8:37

and by the time I was in college he

8:40

felt like a father figure to me , I felt like a son

8:42

figure to him and so at 14

8:44

, he was just my counselor at the time

8:46

and he knew I was looking for work and I would always

8:48

complain about the things I want but

8:50

couldn't get . And he

8:52

helped me get my first job , which was at the

8:55

Englewood Police Department . I was working

8:57

at the chief's office and what

8:59

was amazing about that ? Going into it I was nervous

9:02

because , like every black boy , we

9:04

have a fear of the police

9:06

, or like many at least , that I

9:08

know . I don't want to speak for others' experience

9:11

, but for those that aren't fearful when

9:13

they're in the presence of law enforcement

9:16

assuming they're not their friend , that they know I'd

9:18

love to meet those folks to understand what they're

9:20

doing , to cope with that anxiety . That being

9:22

said , he connected me to this job and I'm going

9:24

in thinking , oh my gosh , I'm going to work for the police . This

9:26

is crazy . I want this money but I

9:29

don't want to do this . I walk in and I meet a man

9:31

who looks almost exactly like me , like

9:33

60 years from

9:35

that point . I had freckles

9:37

, light skin , dude , had a

9:39

beard , just like how I got it now . And

9:42

at the time I was the only person I knew that looked

9:44

like me . I was a skinny kid . I was

9:46

the shortest kid in my class . I had these big

9:48

Coke bottle glasses . Everybody would

9:50

joke on me and make fun of me , including my athlete

9:52

friends . And so in high school going

9:55

back to your question , what was my outlet

9:58

? Having some form

10:00

of work , I took a lot of pride in being able to

10:02

make it rain for all my friends and buy

10:04

them all a Pepsi and Pizza Hut in the world

10:06

with that job .

10:07

I had in the chief's office .

10:08

A week into that job I got a job at a place

10:11

called Straight Outta Philly , right around the corner by

10:13

the bus stop . I would wait

10:15

for the bus to get home and I saw this place

10:17

and said I want that money too . So

10:19

during the summer job I was working almost

10:22

seven days a week , just making

10:24

little money here and there , and in today's

10:26

standards it's not much . But for me at the time

10:28

at 14 , I was able to pay

10:31

my phone bill . I was able to upgrade a little phone

10:33

. I had had a little Nokia block thing right

10:35

. That was a big , big

10:37

deal for me . I felt like I was going places

10:40

. But outside of work , what really

10:42

energized me and fueled me , yeah

10:44

, was sports . Track is my through line

10:46

. I'm a pole vaulter . That was my event In

10:48

high school . I'm in the hurdles a bit too and did

10:51

what you know all other duties assigned

10:53

when it comes to track . That's your job description . You

10:55

have one event , but then they throw you in the one

10:57

that you don't want to do every track . So

10:59

that was where I formed a lot of strong relationships

11:02

, but I also started to learn

11:04

what it meant to compete against yourself

11:06

, work independently . It was through

11:08

that , through track and through sports , where

11:11

I really got to understand what it meant to have to

11:13

fail but keep going right . So

11:15

what does it mean when you don't

11:17

reach the height that you want to clear , but

11:19

you still have more attempts

11:21

to go and you still are

11:23

not in the top three finishers and scoring

11:26

for your team right ? You

11:28

have to also wait another five to 10 minutes

11:30

before you can go up again . So you got a lot of time

11:32

to be in your head . So it takes

11:34

a lot to understand how

11:37

you can manage and cope with those voices

11:40

in your head as you perceive

11:42

yourself to be failing in the moment . And it was track

11:44

that helped me to really get to a place where

11:46

I can build that kind of confidence to know , yeah , that

11:48

happened , I'm going to put that behind me . It's

11:51

not a big deal right now . What is a

11:54

big deal is continuing to do all the things

11:56

that I've practiced a thousand

11:58

times , literally over and over and over

12:00

and over and over again , from pole

12:02

plants , from hanging upside down , and understanding

12:05

what it means to have the right form when I'm in the

12:07

air . All these things . I need to

12:09

focus on the fundamentals and I need to

12:11

keep moving forward . These are things

12:13

and tactics that I bring into

12:15

my work life throughout my entire

12:17

career . That was my outlet , for sure in

12:20

high school .

12:21

I mean , that makes a lot of sense and there's a lot that you learn from sports

12:23

and just the consistency

12:26

, the repetition , the building

12:28

good habits that one can kind

12:30

of take and carry for

12:32

lifelong after that . Talk to me about senior

12:34

year of high school . So you're a senior in high school

12:36

. What do you think is going to happen ? And then

12:38

what actually happens for you ?

12:41

Oh man , senior year of high school what I think was going

12:43

to happen . I probably thought I was going to win state

12:45

championship in the pole vault , because if

12:48

you go to pole vault camp , apparently you come

12:50

back a champ . That didn't happen

12:52

. But I got all league and I got

12:54

all county and I was team captain

12:56

. That was something , team captain , that I really

12:58

wanted , probably since I was

13:00

a freshman I was one of those folks coming

13:02

in . I want to be the varsity

13:04

letter winner all four years and be

13:07

on varsity . I want to be captain as soon

13:09

as possible and so I didn't

13:11

achieve those things

13:13

earlier than my . Well , the captainship

13:15

earlier in my senior year . The letter I got in my

13:17

junior year , but senior year for me it was really

13:19

just leaning into that . I was really

13:21

focused on my sports . I love

13:24

music and I come from a family of

13:26

musicians , artists , singers , so I

13:28

was engaged in drama as

13:30

well and I was a part of the school play which

13:33

I had to ultimately give up . I was going

13:35

to be the second lead and

13:37

big tap , dance on piano

13:39

, all that stuff , but I had to give it

13:41

up because it competed with track . So again

13:43

, you hear the focus on sports . Where did academics

13:46

come in ? I , honestly , was one of those

13:48

folks that was just like I'm here because you

13:50

know why I'm here . My parents told me to be here . My best Marshall

13:52

Lynch voice .

13:53

Yeah , I'm going to be fine .

13:55

Yeah , I did not care about school whatsoever

13:57

. I really didn't . I only cared so

14:00

much as it meant that I can continue to run track

14:02

and I'll have a good GPA

14:04

when I apply to colleges , which

14:06

also was a task for me . So my

14:08

senior year was not consumed with college applications

14:11

. At best , you can say it was consumed

14:13

with figuring out how to , in the most

14:15

efficient way , with minimal

14:17

time spent , complete a college application

14:20

and get accepted somewhere to say Mom

14:22

, I'm in college , and

14:28

get accepted somewhere to say mom , I'm in college . And

14:30

so I ended up sending in an application to a university that sent me a mailer

14:32

University of Hartford . They asked

14:34

on the back of this four

14:36

panel brochure name , address

14:39

, hobbies . And I got

14:41

another package in the mail a few weeks later

14:43

saying I was accepted to college . I didn't even know I was applying , but there you go . And I got another package in the mail a few weeks later saying I was accepted to college . I

14:45

didn't even know I was applying , but

14:48

there you go . So I checked the box

14:50

and I you know I was pushing to get

14:52

on the track team to pull all these things . That's

14:54

, you know , probably for some follow-ups . But that

14:57

was my senior year , just really gearing up for that

14:59

and doing what I needed to do to be able to finish

15:01

high school , get accepted into college

15:03

. And then you know to do to be able

15:05

to finish high school , get accepted into college and then you know , have the

15:07

flyest prom date that I can have . That's why I'm not even going to lie in front

15:10

of you , I'm not going to sit here and say I was a valedictorian

15:13

and all of that . I just I

15:15

was there , got

15:32

it . That's real . That's real . I appreciate that . Did you end up going to that school and what did you end up majoring in ? Yeah , yeah . So I ended up going there for

15:34

one semester . My major was political science . So at that point my senior

15:36

year , I'd already known I wanted to go to school for law and I wanted to be a lawyer . Political science was

15:38

so I was told , the best track . And again

15:40

, this is where my pop came in and he

15:43

introduced me to folks that he knew through

15:45

his work . He had great relationships with local

15:47

county judges , local prosecutors

15:50

and defense attorneys who you

15:52

know . I got to meet a few of them and he set up

15:54

time for us to sit down and sit

15:56

down at the diner in Bergenfield , new Jersey

15:58

, with these folks and we would

16:00

. They would give me all the

16:02

all the scoop on what I need

16:04

to be thinking about . When it comes to , you know

16:07

, studying for law Pre-law is

16:09

not the way to go . A lot of people

16:11

kind of don't take that as serious

16:13

as other , as other liberal arts educate

16:15

, you know , pathways for education

16:17

. It was kind of equivalent to , you know , getting

16:20

a bartender certification . It's like you

16:22

got to , you got it , but no one's going to hire you , kind

16:24

of thing . So I went for political science . That

16:27

was the next best thing , and at

16:29

University of Hartford I ended up leaving

16:31

after a semester only because

16:33

I was too expensive for them . So

16:36

my event , the pole vault , requires

16:38

a specific level of insurance because

16:41

they're human beings flinging their

16:43

bodies with a tiny little pole more

16:45

than 15 feet in the air . God

16:48

forbid something happens to me . It's a huge liability

16:50

. And so I spent all this time and this is where

16:52

the hustle comes in right . All I knew

16:54

is they don't want me to run track here anymore

16:56

. I brought up my own equipment , which these

16:59

poles cost $800 . Yeah

17:02

, yeah , they're pretty expensive , and my high school was

17:04

kind enough to let me take , take the polls

17:06

that I was using from their inventory to

17:09

Hartford . I was programming

17:11

my own workouts , all of these things

17:13

, and the athletic director sat me down with

17:15

half his team and was just saying , yeah

17:17

, so you can't do this anymore . And

17:19

this is where I came in and just started hustling

17:22

. Right , this is a failure moment . Right , I

17:24

can either retreat and let this be as

17:26

it is or I can try to make a change

17:28

here and meet all of their concerns

17:30

. Right , and kind of , you know , check those boxes , address

17:32

their concerns . And so what did I do ? I

17:35

reached out like just cold , called

17:37

the 2000 Olympic

17:39

silver medalist in the pole vault . He

17:41

was black pole vaulter and

17:43

for me at the time was my idol , because , again

17:46

, there weren't there are not still many

17:48

black pole vaulters . Oftentimes

17:50

I'd be like fifth or sixth at

17:52

at a meet with really good

17:55

pole vaulters and I'll have the local paper

17:57

coming to me for an interview

17:59

because you look so athletic and these , all

18:01

these things . Right , you hear some of the stereotypes

18:03

coming in , though it's nice to see your name in

18:05

the newspaper at the same time , right

18:07

, you , you kind of know like , hey , you're not the greatest

18:10

at what you're doing and and you know it's

18:12

kind of tough because you don't have anyone to kind of commiserate

18:14

over that with , because I have no one that looks

18:16

like . So I followed this guy forever

18:18

and when this moment came , I I said I'm going to reach

18:20

out to him because he also happens to be

18:23

an aspiring artist . He had some albums out

18:25

, all these things . So I reached out to the music

18:27

company . I asked his manager

18:29

if I could connect with him because I'm desperately

18:31

looking for someone to help me here and advocate

18:34

. He offered to actually coach me remotely

18:36

, like where I would send tapes in

18:38

the mail to him of like me pole vaulting

18:41

so he can give me tips . He would send me some

18:43

workouts , all these things . Ultimately

18:50

it wasn't enough to convince the school to keep me on board

18:52

, but it was pretty cool to be interfacing with a former Olympian

18:54

and someone for me who's a legend . And so , yeah

18:56

, I ended up transferring over to Sacred Heart University

18:59

where I finished out my undergraduate

19:01

studies , and I went there

19:03

specifically because I was receiving

19:05

scholarship to pole vault and

19:07

run track , which was very rare to receive

19:09

a scholarship for running track unless

19:12

you're doing multiple events

19:14

or you're someone who's tracking

19:16

to go to the Olympics . And

19:19

so for me to get that , for pole vault , I got

19:21

partial scholarship . It was very , very

19:23

small to start but my my

19:26

work grew that scholarship over time

19:28

. But that that was a big deal for

19:30

me , not the most cost-effective one in

19:32

the longterm , but as a kid I got

19:34

a D1 scholarship to run track , which

19:36

many other folks couldn't say at

19:38

the time , and I took a lot of pride in that .

19:40

Absolutely so . At this time , you're a D1

19:43

athlete , a D1 scholarship

19:46

athlete , that's looking to go to

19:48

law school . Were

19:50

you doing other things outside of

19:52

those two very time-consuming things

19:55

? And then tell me about what happens . Fast

19:57

forward a few years when you're about to graduate college

19:59

and figuring out what life looks

20:02

like . Are you looking to be an Olympian ? Are you looking

20:04

to be a lawyer ? What happens ?

20:05

Yeah , well , so I'll

20:07

say , probably early on

20:09

the first couple of years , you know , in

20:11

college running track , I was thinking

20:14

, you know , I could be an Olympian

20:16

. My performance wasn't where it needed

20:18

to be , but I believed in my work ethic

20:20

and I knew , just , with time , it

20:23

will come , as long as I keep the

20:25

ethic , the work ethic there , that that over

20:27

time changed , as you know . I started

20:30

getting closer to graduation so I realized , well , you

20:32

probably not going to , you know , be in the Olympics

20:34

, but you'll be really good in this conference

20:36

, uh uh , which was the Northeast

20:38

conference , very regional conference , not

20:40

the SEC or anything like that or big East , but

20:42

yeah , so I had those aspirations . Then

20:50

, with school and my studies , again it was very , very similar here . So when I transferred

20:53

, similar to high school , so when I transferred over to Sacred Heart , I actually

20:55

decided to minor in philosophy

20:58

. And that minor , that decision to

21:00

go with that minor , had a lot to do with

21:02

, again , my aspirations to become

21:04

a lawyer and go to law school , so understanding

21:06

politics , government , our constitution

21:08

, but also balancing that with classroom understanding

21:11

of ethics . And so in

21:13

that I happened to be in a position

21:15

where I actually decided to double

21:18

minor about a year and a half in

21:20

and getting to just like , how

21:22

did you do all of that ? Or like , what were you thinking

21:24

toward the end of college and planning ? None

21:26

of this was something planned for me . It was . I

21:28

was sitting down with my advisor and he said you

21:30

need a class to fill out your schedule so you can

21:32

, you know , have the full-time schedule and get

21:34

all your credits . It just so happens you only need

21:37

one class to be a double minor in

21:39

business economics . So what's the class

21:41

?

21:47

Just sign me up for it . It's easy so .

21:48

I have a minor like that too . So , yeah , yeah . So a lot of people you know I tell them the

21:50

double minor like oh man , you're like , you

21:52

really must love school . I hated school

21:54

. I still hate school . I didn't like , I did not enjoy

21:56

it at all . Lots of coffee to stay up in class

21:58

, it was very dry material . But I knew

22:00

that it was a piece of paper that would enable

22:03

me to be more competitive than my peers who

22:05

did not have it . And if I had the ability

22:07

to say double minor , that made me more marketable

22:09

. It was a huge differentiator and so I went for

22:11

that and did that . So I'm doing

22:13

all this and I'm pursuing

22:16

my dreams to become a singer , songwriter

22:18

, and I was really

22:20

, really treated it like a job

22:23

. To be honest with you , I was really aggressive

22:25

about trying to break into the music

22:27

industry and that was really motivated

22:29

by one day in particular

22:32

where my freshman year

22:34

in the summer , I came home and

22:36

my mother was crying hysterically

22:38

and she was crying

22:41

over bills . She just couldn't pay

22:43

all the bills in that month and

22:45

I didn't know how

22:48

bad things were . And I just remember in that

22:50

moment I walked away with

22:52

this feeling of like scorched earth

22:54

, like you know someone had done her wrong

22:56

, that kind of reaction like who's going to get it

22:58

? Who's getting these hands

23:00

right ? Who's coming after my brother , my family ? So

23:02

for me it was I need to find me a studio

23:05

, because enough people tell me I can

23:07

sing . I said , look , if I can just put something together

23:09

, I know I could find a way

23:11

to get myself signed and I can

23:14

change all of this for the better for my mom , I

23:16

can buy a house , I can do all these things , she'll never have to cry

23:18

over bills again . And so , starting

23:21

summer freshman year , all throughout

23:23

college I was also recording

23:25

, I was writing , I was performing

23:28

and balancing all of these things

23:30

and for me , when I finished school

23:32

, it was I'm going to go to law school . But

23:34

then , as I got closer to my senior year , you

23:37

know , I had complete projects and I had

23:39

enough to like have my own

23:41

show and really fill out an hour's

23:43

worth of music material

23:45

. So I wanted to , at

23:47

that point , actually take a break . And

23:50

so I talked to my mother about taking a break between

23:52

undergrad and law school to

23:55

pursue music . And she said look , as long as you

23:57

have a job she didn't necessarily agree with it , but she said as long

23:59

as you have a job , then I'm fine

24:01

with this and I'll support you . And so my

24:04

senior year , as I got in toward

24:06

my senior year , mid junior year , you

24:08

know there's also the whole you're supposed to have internships

24:11

piece and people are telling me do these

24:13

things . And they were all free internships

24:15

that were being thrown my way .

24:17

I'm like look I got to make money .

24:18

Like when I go home in the summer . I'm making

24:20

$19 an hour at the hospital to sit

24:22

around to sit with some folks

24:24

who might be confused or you know , in the psych

24:27

ward and just watch some TV . This was great

24:29

for an 18-year-old to make money , just to sit

24:31

around and watch TV and help out

24:33

nurses every now and then .

24:35

At the time , what minimum wage was like $5.75

24:38

or something like that .

24:39

Yeah , yeah , that

24:41

part right . So it was that Like that

24:43

was a big deal for me to be able to do

24:45

that and

24:49

I didn't want to . I didn't want to work . I knew I'd have to work harder than what I

24:51

was doing at the hospital . I was working three to 11 shifts . So which was the best

24:54

part , right ? Because at that age I don't leave

24:56

the house till 11 at night to go out . I'm not really

24:58

getting started until 12 . You know I

25:00

could sleep in and still

25:02

not miss my day at the time , so

25:04

it was perfect . So what was the middle

25:06

ground here ? Target they

25:09

offered a paid internship that

25:11

actually offered an hourly wage that

25:13

was competitive with what I was earning

25:15

at the hospital , and so I ended up doing the

25:17

Target internship . For the paid internship

25:20

, again to check a box , there's a theme

25:22

here . I was not one of those folks who was

25:24

proactively planning for

25:26

the future and being strategic about

25:28

that . It was I need to do this . I'll

25:31

I'm going to be performing as many as at

25:33

as many places as possible

25:46

. I'm going to be writing as many songs

25:48

as I can and recording as often

25:50

and whenever possible to

25:53

make that happen . Everything else

25:55

will fall behind that . So I just need

25:57

to find a job that will put money in my pocket

25:59

to pay bills that makes sense .

26:01

I mean Target has a

26:03

good leadership intern program , executive leadership

26:05

program . I think we call it . Yeah , makes sense . I mean Target has a good leadership intern program , executive leadership program

26:07

. I think you can call it . Yeah , my wife did

26:09

that program , so I'm pretty familiar with

26:11

it and I know they kind of prepare folks to be really

26:14

good at what they do , whether that's on

26:16

the floor , retail or back office , whatever it

26:18

is . They kind of prepare you to really grow in

26:20

that space Okay . So you graduate , what

26:22

is your job and are you still making

26:24

music ?

26:25

Yeah , still making music . So my job

26:27

, my first job coming out I actually didn't

26:29

have one for probably

26:32

when was it ? May Ended

26:34

up not getting a job

26:36

until October , but I was still

26:38

working at the hospital , so I just picked

26:40

up . I was part-time and I was usually

26:43

every other weekend , so I just started to pick up

26:45

as many shifts as I possibly could

26:47

like in that time period while

26:49

I look for jobs to perform and stuff like that

26:51

. And so I ended up getting a job with Wells Fargo

26:54

Financial and at the time I

26:56

think I can say this now because they went to court

26:58

and lost over this but the things that

27:00

they got in trouble for a few years ago with

27:02

, you know , bad lending practices

27:04

there were things that I was observing while I was

27:06

, while I was even working there , but in this first

27:08

job that I had for me , it was

27:11

I just knew I want to make money , like if I'm not doing

27:13

music . I want to have a suit

27:15

and a tie on . I want to be the boss . I want to be that

27:17

dude Right

27:25

and , like many folks , finish in college , you think because you have the degree . Now my title starts

27:27

at manager or higher , like I'm running things . And so for me I was looking for those kinds

27:29

of jobs , white collar jobs , that

27:31

would make me feel important , I guess for

27:33

my ego . And I get

27:35

this job at Wells Fargo Financial and

27:38

essentially it's subprime mortgages

27:40

. It's positioned as

27:42

a message of helping people to

27:45

improve their finances , helping them refinance

27:48

their car loan , for example , to

27:50

consolidate other forms of debt , Same

27:53

with mortgages , things of that nature . But after

27:55

a few weeks I was starting to notice

27:57

that wasn't the case , and a lot

27:59

of that , I think , had to do with just

28:01

what I was learning as an economics

28:04

minor in terms of just standard practices

28:06

, what's known to be true about the history

28:08

of loans in this country . So

28:11

I had that job but it wasn't as fulfilling

28:13

as I thought it would be . And so

28:15

then I left that job and picked up

28:17

a job doing door-to-door sales

28:19

. I was selling windows and siding vinyl

28:22

windows and vinyl siding . Again . It it was

28:24

just I just need a job so

28:26

I can do music at night

28:28

, right , and I

28:30

just wanted to . At that time I was like I just

28:32

needed to be like some

28:35

type of title that I can maybe

28:37

leverage and I think the time was like

28:39

sales marketer and

28:41

I thought that sounded nice enough for

28:43

me to work with when I think about

28:45

my next office job if music doesn't

28:47

work out . But I kept performing . I was

28:49

performing two to three nights a week in the city

28:52

. So , driving 30-40 minutes from

28:54

Jersey into the city , I was recording

28:56

almost every night for anywhere

28:59

from two to four hours like after

29:01

work . I was pressing all of my

29:04

own cds . You know they

29:06

call it burning the cds at the time . So I was burning the cd

29:08

, I was making a label , pressing it , I was putting

29:10

it in a little cover , slip cover . I

29:13

would sell these things . That shows keep up with

29:15

mailing lists , social media . I even

29:17

built myself a website . All while

29:19

doing these things and trying to find

29:21

, trying to find work . So that was my first

29:24

year out of college .

29:26

Yeah , wow , I love that and I appreciate

29:29

you sharing that right , because I think there's a lot of stuff

29:31

that people that see you at work today would never

29:33

know right Like one . There's this creative

29:35

side of you , there's this hustle side of

29:37

you , there's this entrepreneur

29:41

like being an independent artist is entrepreneurship

29:43

right ? Like bringing all that

29:45

to the table and trying to like work on your

29:48

dreams while you're trying to keep food at

29:50

the table basically right the entire time . I think

29:52

that's important to know and I also appreciate

29:54

it because some of these jobs are

29:56

very odd jobs that are not necessarily even

29:58

things that we would put on our

30:00

resumes on LinkedIn today , but like they're part of the journey

30:03

that get us to where we are today

30:05

and you know it's important because they helped

30:07

shape that perspective and they played an important role

30:09

at that time . So I appreciate it .

30:11

Oh , a hundred percent . I mean , look those jobs , those

30:13

first two jobs I don't think you've seen on my LinkedIn

30:15

, but I've had many . I've had many different

30:17

odd jobs like since

30:20

, since finishing college . But what's

30:22

on LinkedIn , I think , is the main theme through

30:24

line . But yeah , man , I think life

30:26

is just filled with fits and starts

30:28

right , and life is not always something that's

30:31

planned . I think for me it's just

30:33

like I just have a whole ton of confidence

30:35

in what I think

30:38

I can do , even when I'm not sure how

30:40

to do it . That's just what's been imbued

30:43

in me . Like eighth grade , which I had

30:45

the yearbook here . It says Ian will

30:47

be most determined . They had like eight things people

30:49

voted on , like you know , most popular

30:51

, most , most most determined , ian

30:54

Strutter . So even like at the age

30:56

of was I in eighth grade , 13,

30:58

? Even at that age , like I

31:00

was , you know , I was like a dog with

31:02

a bone . If there was something that I wanted to do

31:04

, it was very difficult to

31:07

convince me that I wasn't capable

31:09

of doing . I say capable

31:11

is very different than being allowed or

31:13

able to do it .

31:15

So talk to me about what happens for

31:17

the next few years until you

31:19

get to this point .

31:30

Like what is that , that first moment when you get a job that is kind of in that career through

31:32

line that you're like , and how did that come about ? Yeah , yeah , so the first job

31:34

was with Bergen County Community Action Partnership , now known as Greater Bergen Community

31:36

Action , and that job was

31:40

by way of my pop . He was working

31:42

there at the time . I think he was tired of hearing

31:44

me complain about like the outdoor

31:46

sales job that I had . It was very

31:49

it became to be a very uncomfortable job

31:51

. It was definitely like a boiler room

31:53

you get dropped in the middle of like a

31:55

neighborhood that is very

31:57

affluent and

31:59

easily made skeptical of

32:01

these folks and hooded

32:04

windbreakers who they know don't

32:06

live there and are just knocking on doors

32:08

and oddly staring at people's houses

32:10

to try to figure out or even touching

32:13

them to see all right

32:15

, is that vinyl ? Is that clad siding

32:17

? What material is that ? Can I talk

32:19

to them and it was getting cold . So

32:21

I started in the summer and now it's getting cold

32:23

, daylight savings time , the day is shorter , it's

32:26

dark at four o'clock and I'm still out

32:28

there knocking on doors . I was telling

32:30

all this to my pop and he's just like look , there's something

32:32

here , I heard that's opened up . Would you

32:34

mind being an administrative assistant

32:36

? Nope , I would love that . I'll

32:39

be inside . It is not cold and

32:41

I don't have to do all this nonsense Like sometimes . People

32:43

got stopped by the police , almost arrested

32:45

for what they were doing , so I just need

32:47

to get out of there . And so I got the job at a nonprofit

32:49

and at the time like nonprofit

32:51

is completely counter to what I described

32:54

where I saw myself , you know , senior

32:56

year , I'm your boss , make money , all these things

32:58

. But I started off

33:00

with the weatherization program and

33:02

my job was just at the time I was just shuttling

33:04

things back and forth from this satellite office

33:07

that was three towns away to

33:09

the main headquarters and

33:11

then , after the first week , my boss

33:13

at the time this is a guy

33:15

that's on every APB

33:18

and milk carton . You don't let him

33:20

within 100 feet of a school . So

33:23

nothing , the guys . It was about time

33:25

he got let go . He was doing some really

33:27

sketchy things and he was let go . They

33:29

brought in someone from Johnson Controls

33:31

to run the weatherization team and

33:34

his name was Phil Glowie . He

33:36

sat me down and he said look , you're the only

33:38

one with a degree here , so I'd like

33:40

you to be a purchasing agent

33:43

. I don't know what that meant , but I did ask

33:45

if I get a badge . I thought that'd be cool . And

33:47

well , I also get some business cards , because

33:49

I thought that would be nice to make me feel like an adult

33:52

, to have business cards in my hand that I give to people

33:54

. And so that's how I got my start

33:56

, man , and when I in that role you

33:58

know this was the first time I felt like

34:00

I got real mentorship

34:02

from my manager that

34:05

I was working with . Like he told me , he taught me

34:07

the odds and ends from negotiation to holding

34:09

contractors accountable , to pipeline management

34:11

, procurement rules , setting

34:14

up processes , like all of these

34:16

things I learned from him and

34:18

in doing so , in that

34:20

one one first , in that first year

34:22

rather , of doing that work , I was able

34:24

to save the company close

34:26

to three hundred thousand dollars on

34:28

all their materials purchases as

34:31

well as their subcontractor costs , and

34:33

so , yeah , it was a it was a

34:35

big deal for me starting my career

34:37

there . I ultimately moved on from

34:40

that purchasing agent role into

34:42

another role , and this was kind of unplanned

34:44

. It was just I wanted to make more money . I

34:46

had I'd been looking for other jobs

34:48

at the time and I got an offer to be a purchase

34:51

agent somewhere else . I don't even remember where

34:53

it was . It's like one of those weird office parks

34:55

, like you know , like a Teterboro

34:57

like town in New Jersey which is office parks

35:00

and you just go there to work . So nothing

35:02

was really exciting about it . It was really B2B

35:04

transactions , and so

35:06

the CEO got wind that

35:09

I was looking to leap . I was getting froggy

35:11

and I was looking to leap and he said he pulled

35:13

me in . They had this war room , him and the COO . They

35:16

closed the door to this room . This room , it's

35:18

small , 10 by 10 at most , and

35:20

there's a square table that's probably six

35:23

by six and they keep all these newspapers

35:25

scattered on it . There's etchings on the

35:27

wall of things they're working on , and

35:29

I've only been in there maybe one other time . So

35:32

my perception is , this is the room where

35:34

things happen . And . I'm sweating bullets

35:36

, I'm nervous , I think I'm in trouble

35:39

. They're like what are you trying to do ? Strong arm was

35:41

I thought that's what I was walking into . Instead

35:43

, I walked into a warm reception

35:46

with this door closed , where I got

35:48

to hear the CEO and the CEO play

35:50

back to me , or give me a readout , rather

35:52

, of all the great reviews I received

35:54

from my manager with

35:57

regards to the work that I was doing in weatherization and

35:59

they said to me we'd like to keep you here . We

36:01

have this amazing initiative that we're

36:04

getting ready to launch , called CapSolar . It's

36:06

going to be . It ended up being a

36:08

$10 million initiative , but at that

36:10

time they were speculating around

36:13

$20 to $25 million in

36:15

partnership with Goldman Sachs Urban Investment Group

36:17

. Now me , at this time

36:19

I'm still in my music bag , right . So I got

36:21

a little furrow hawk going , got the

36:23

clean sides , got a little fake . You

36:26

know , the only thing special about me was the collar

36:28

button up shirt . I I had

36:30

it right . I clearly look like

36:32

this guy's committed to something else

36:34

when he is leaving here and that is

36:36

his real full time job . But they

36:38

offer me this position . They told me to name

36:40

my number and I named it . I should have went way

36:43

higher , but I named

36:45

my number and it was the most money I had ever made

36:47

at that time and it was great . They made the immediate

36:49

change the next day and I couldn't , I

36:51

I couldn't believe it .

36:53

That's amazing . I mean , that makes sense , right . I mean you named the number

36:55

that is high to you at the moment , right now

36:57

, like it was higher than whatever you had

36:59

seen to that point . Uh , so , yeah , so that

37:01

makes a lot of sense , that's

37:03

awesome .

37:04

I didn't have people around me . I

37:06

heard someone say this earlier today a

37:09

DEI executive talking about their

37:11

upbringing and being the first

37:13

in their family . You hear a

37:15

first-gen college student , but they're

37:18

a first-gen corporate

37:20

professional Me as well . My

37:23

mother worked in a hospital setting . She was a respiratory therapist

37:26

. What you get is what you get right

37:28

In a union . The wage is there . I

37:30

didn't really have anyone that talked

37:32

to me about salary negotiation

37:35

, even though I probably could lean on my pop for

37:37

that . And so , yeah , in that room I

37:39

mean , had I had that , I certainly

37:42

would have probably asked for more . But yeah

37:44

, you know , you live and you learn . That makes sense

37:47

.

37:47

So tell me about this role . So you stepped into

37:49

this role , how long did you do that for , and

37:51

what kind of comes after this , this

37:53

chapter of your life , when you're , when you're in this organization

37:55

?

38:00

So yeah , I mean the role . I was a part of all the work

38:02

that our CEO and our board

38:04

treasurer were doing with Goldman Sachs

38:06

CFO as well . So

38:08

to really model out what you know what the

38:10

program would look like the financial

38:13

waterfalls , all of that we

38:15

were leveraging new market tax credits

38:18

, something that was very

38:20

foreign to all of us , including

38:22

our CFO at the time . I knew nothing

38:24

about solar , so we were

38:26

really just kind of building the ship as it

38:28

goes and we were learning how to actually

38:30

drive a ship and I

38:32

guess , for lack of better

38:34

words in that analogy , I guess build the ship as

38:37

well at the same time . And so once

38:39

we started the program , my job is essentially to

38:41

bring on nonprofits to fill in our pipeline

38:44

commitment . So our goal was to install

38:46

four megawatts of solar panels on the roofs

38:48

of nonprofits throughout New Jersey for

38:51

free , with the caveat that if they

38:53

have asbestos laden roof or

38:55

roof repair to that's required

38:58

to be able to support

39:00

those solar panels , that they would have to

39:02

fund that . But there's an added

39:04

benefit besides the free solar that you're

39:06

getting right and that savings on electricity . We're

39:09

giving up 50% of our developer fee

39:11

for each of these projects with whomever

39:13

signed on . This is unrestricted

39:16

money now that can be programmed in any

39:18

way that these nonprofits would

39:20

like to see it programmed . You can

39:22

give a raise to a frontline worker

39:24

, you can give a scholarship to

39:26

some frontline workers , especially

39:29

single parents , who you know I've worked

39:31

with many who aspire

39:33

to go to college and I hear often , you

39:36

know , once I save up enough to go to college , I'm going to

39:38

go to college . College is very

39:40

expensive and it's nearly impossible

39:43

to save up for we know this , making

39:45

a salary that's close to minimum

39:47

wage , barely above it . So

39:49

to be able to offer

39:52

this developer fee , it went leaps

39:54

and bounds . Some folks used

39:56

it to help pay for the repairs that they needed

39:58

to do on their roofs . Others did reprogram

40:00

it and everyone that participated

40:03

saw a 10 to 15% savings

40:05

, or rather is seeing rather still 10

40:07

to 15% savings in their power bills . And

40:09

for Greater Bergen , who developed

40:12

this for-profit power company

40:14

, they're receiving a whole

40:16

ton of unrestricted revenue by way of these energy

40:18

payments that are being made month over

40:20

month . So it means a

40:23

lot for the institution as well

40:25

. So for me it was a phenomenal

40:27

opportunity to be able to work with members

40:29

of our board , our CEO

40:32

, our COO

40:34

, and just really expand

40:36

my exposure across the organization , and

40:38

in doing that , I

40:40

was able to then get more responsibility

40:42

. So I took on work to help

40:45

to save our weatherization program

40:47

. When Republicans took over in

40:49

2010 , during Obama's first administration

40:52

, and they completely defunded

40:54

the weatherization program and the CDBG

40:56

program in particular , there were

40:58

monies coming from the American Restoration

41:01

and Re-Innovation Act , or Recovery

41:03

Act . I always get those R's wrong . That

41:06

was added on top of what we normally get

41:08

. So imagine going from $5

41:10

million in your bank account one day to

41:13

$150,000 in your bank account

41:15

one day . I'm sure if T-Pain's watching this

41:17

, he's shaking his head right , he's like , yeah , that was me

41:19

, but that's what . That's

41:21

what literally happened to more

41:24

than eleven hundred institutions

41:26

providing this offering , this service

41:28

offering , and so I

41:30

was asked to zoom in to think about how we

41:32

could develop a fee for service model around this

41:35

so we could save and retain jobs , and

41:37

so I work to develop grassroots strategies as

41:39

well . To where in the weatherization

41:41

team that already was there would

41:44

simply do things as simple as going

41:46

around the block introducing themselves to the neighbors

41:48

. Not everyone qualifies

41:50

for free services through this grant . You have

41:52

to be at or below the poverty line , based

41:54

on your family level . If you miss by

41:56

a penny , you still have to pay . So

41:59

let's market to everyone that

42:01

we know won't qualify . Let's look at those

42:03

folks that applied and were disqualified

42:05

. For those folks that were disqualified

42:07

, we want to be a responsible

42:09

partner to them right in helping them to

42:11

find savings in their electric

42:14

bills month over month . So we

42:16

can't just charge these people a fee

42:18

. That's quite predatory . We

42:20

happen to have , and it's misaligned with our values

42:23

right as an anti-poverty agency . We happen to have , and it's misaligned

42:25

with our values right as an anti-poverty agency . So let's leverage our credit union and

42:27

let's open up more counseling credit

42:29

union . A bank is in a business , that of

42:31

giving loans . That's how they make money . So

42:34

let's get them connected there . With

42:36

that loan they're going to get a

42:38

savings account that's opened up for them . They're going to get access

42:40

to financial counseling , supports and services . That

42:43

is there and this loan that we'll put

42:45

that we would provide them . The

42:47

loan would be structured

42:49

so that the monthly payment aligns

42:51

to the anticipated electric

42:54

savings electric bill savings month

42:56

over month . So , though

42:58

they're not seeing in the beginning of savings

43:00

over the longterm , once they're done paying

43:02

that loan down , they'll be able to

43:04

experience that . So it's basically

43:08

no felt difference . But now your loan was

43:10

more energy efficient and within

43:12

the next two to five years , depending

43:14

on how long your loan term was , you'd

43:16

be in a position then to see that

43:18

considerable savings , and now you can do so

43:20

much more with that money . Right , got it .

43:23

That makes a lot of sense to me , ok , and that kind

43:25

of starts your career in

43:28

building some of that through line , right when you

43:30

talk about energy , when you talk about workforce , when you talk

43:32

about all of these things kind of coming together boards

43:35

.

43:35

So it's not just a mid-level staff I'm dealing with

43:37

the CEO and then I have to talk to , I have to present

43:39

to a board

43:51

or I have to prep the CEO to

43:53

be able to give the right sell to the board

43:55

. And so I really understood what it meant

43:57

to have to adapt my

43:59

communication style and really have

44:01

a message that resonates with different

44:04

audiences . And so

44:06

that's for me what became

44:08

very helpful . When you fast

44:10

forward into where I went next after Greater Bergen

44:12

, I ended up making a pivot into

44:14

workforce development . I had a few fits

44:17

and starts I could talk about

44:19

, but that's ultimately

44:21

what helped me the most when

44:23

it came to my starting workforce

44:25

where I was a job developer . It was that

44:27

muscle I developed doing that kind

44:29

of sale where I now can talk to a

44:31

business owner , a

44:33

small business owner around the block , or I

44:35

can go to Kramer Levin and talk to folks

44:38

in a big corporate environment and still

44:40

meet them where they're at to

44:42

convince them to create

44:44

jobs for individuals who

44:46

otherwise would not be able to have those

44:48

positions .

44:50

So tell me about that job where you were mostly

44:52

focused on the workforce development and kind

44:54

of . What were you tasked with doing there ?

44:56

Yeah , so it was Fountain House

44:58

where I got my start . They're based

45:00

in Hell's Kitchen on 47th and 9th

45:02

. They're a mental health organization . They're one

45:04

of I think now about

45:06

three let's call it over 300 , call

45:08

them clubhouses around the world . And

45:11

these organizations , these institutions

45:13

, they vary in size . They can be five staff

45:16

, they can be 100 . But the whole goal

45:18

is to create an environment where the

45:20

clients , who they call members , these individuals

45:22

with mental illness , have a place to go , where they

45:24

can feel their value

45:27

once again . And so how

45:29

was that done ? Well , that's done by

45:31

way of the relationship with

45:33

their case managers . So members are working side

45:35

by side with staff to help the organization

45:38

advance toward its mission and

45:40

its goals . Members are serving

45:42

on the board , members are

45:45

traveling with executives and

45:47

staff at all levels , for that matter , or meetings that

45:49

they might have , and they are participating

45:51

in those meetings . So when I go to London to do

45:53

work for Fountainhouse , I

45:55

have someone with me meeting with local council

45:57

members to talk about how we can have partnerships

46:01

that enable us to be able to create

46:03

opportunities for folks in places

46:05

like Brixton where social classism prevents

46:07

them from getting jobs , with folks like I

46:10

won't name them , but American-based conglomerates

46:12

. So it ran

46:14

the gamut . But in that

46:17

is where I really understood

46:19

what workforce development is . I

46:21

thought a job was a job you just go to Indeed

46:23

and then you call them and then you can put somebody in

46:25

it . But it's so much , so

46:27

much , so much more than that . And

46:29

so at Fountainhouse I really understood what it meant

46:31

to take time to really

46:34

understand the individuals that you're serving

46:36

and really understand how you can craft

46:39

a compelling narrative that

46:41

doesn't position a partnership with

46:43

an employer as charity , right

46:45

, but it's an exchange of

46:48

us helping them meet their business bottom line

46:50

. But in doing so and having that

46:52

be met , enabling an individual

46:54

to tangibly feel

46:57

what their value is right and see it by way of

46:59

that paycheck that they're finally getting for the first time in

47:01

five , 10 or more years , that they're finally getting for

47:03

the first time in five , 10 or

47:05

more years that they've not been able to get work

47:07

because they just haven't had the strong system

47:10

around them , a strong village around them

47:13

, to help them enable their

47:15

success , most importantly , enabling

47:17

that success during their failures

47:20

and their lows . There was a lot of this

47:22

medication management that can impact an individual's

47:24

ability to be able to show up effectively to work

47:26

all of these things . And Fountainhouse provides

47:29

supports to the point where , literally

47:32

through one of their programs called transitional employment

47:34

, staff are going onsite

47:36

and they are literally filling

47:38

, they're working the job if a member

47:40

couldn't show up for

47:42

their shift . So the Federal Reserve was

47:44

one of our partners . The CFO

47:46

was assigned to that . Every now

47:49

and then you might see the CFO shoveling

47:51

and sweeping and taking out trash outside

47:54

of the Federal Reserve . That is the

47:56

extent of the services that they were providing

47:58

and that was my first like jump

48:00

into workforce development

48:02

.

48:03

Yeah , also , I

48:05

do want to point out the . There's a slight irony

48:07

, as you mentioned in the , when you're about to

48:09

graduate college and you're like I'm all about

48:11

the money , I'm all about the money too , I'm

48:14

going to work in nonprofits , basically

48:16

, and then when I do make a pivot out

48:18

of that . It's going to go into government . But

48:22

I mean , in fairness , right , I do think

48:24

that part of what

48:27

I want to get across through this conversation and

48:29

through this podcast generally is

48:31

you know , you can continuously

48:33

grow in your career in these sectors

48:35

and you can make money in these sectors , and just

48:37

because it's a nonprofit doesn't mean you're a nonprofit

48:40

, like it doesn't mean that

48:42

, right . So tell me about how you kind

48:44

of transfer these skills then to positioning

48:47

yourself for kind of pivoting sectors

48:49

. Right , it was still mission aligned , but you did

48:51

end up pivoting sectors at some point .

48:53

Oh yeah , I mean , even when I moved

48:55

over to Fountainhouse . It's a pivot from what I

48:57

was doing over at Greater Bergen , right . So

48:59

between Fountainhouse and Greater Bergen I

49:01

got a job at the nonprofit Harlem United

49:04

. I was really excited about the job . I interviewed

49:06

for a job that was just above my reach

49:08

, but they liked me so much they brought

49:10

me on anyway and they created a salary

49:12

line for me . They ultimately let me go

49:14

about a month and a half in and at the time

49:17

I had no idea , beyond the fact

49:19

that I was told it was

49:21

emails , strong word emails . I was like okay

49:23

, show me examples . I couldn't

49:25

get what I really was looking

49:27

for or wanted , but as an at-will employee

49:30

, they can get rid of me for whatever

49:32

reasons they choose . On another

49:40

EVP salary and they

49:42

needed to make the money work , which

49:44

I completely understand

49:46

. But at the time I didn't know what to do

49:48

because I was always this over performer

49:50

, overachiever , this

49:52

hit hard . We weren't playing basketball

49:55

, so the only thing I'll tell you , I'm

50:00

just horrible at . So I was wondering what was going on . And so what did it mean to feel

50:02

like to make that pivot ? The first pivot I made was because

50:04

Fountainhouse was a 1099 contract

50:06

position . So I felt like , hey

50:09

, I can feel more confident in

50:11

standing behind what it is that I want to effectuate

50:13

, right , standing behind my vision , and not

50:16

worry about being retaliated against

50:18

or let go for whatever reason . And

50:20

so while I was at Fountain House

50:22

, I was able to do a lot In

50:25

my three and a half years there . I

50:27

created an employer advisory board

50:29

. It was through . I won't take credit

50:31

for this . It was a colleague of mine , dorothy Orr

50:33

has been with Fountain House for like 20 years

50:36

and when Mayor de Blasio

50:38

became mayor , every day she

50:40

said I'm calling their office

50:42

because the first lady goes to my church and

50:44

I think we could get jobs there . She

50:46

ended up getting a meeting one day . This is someone

50:49

that she doesn't like selling . She'll tell you this , admittedly to

50:51

the whole world . She's not the developer

50:53

type . So I said let me go with you so

50:55

you can have me to close . And

50:57

so we went to the mayor's office and

50:59

I meet Martha Jackson , who

51:02

ended up becoming my boss at

51:04

the Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities . She

51:06

was the assistant commissioner there at the time . She

51:09

sat on our employer advisory board

51:11

and it was through that partnership

51:13

where she was able to see

51:16

me in action and see how I was developing relationships

51:18

, how I was cultivating those relationships very

51:20

strategically and how I was engaging them in the mission to create broader access to jobs for individuals

51:22

with mental illness , cultivating those relationships very strategically and I was engaging them in the

51:24

mission to create broader access to jobs

51:27

for individuals with mental illness

51:29

. And so Martha wanted to bring all

51:32

those things , those strengths , over to what she was

51:34

building at the time , a program

51:36

that was quietly known as NYC

51:39

at Work . At the time

51:41

she had raised

51:44

funds from private philanthropic

51:46

institutions to pay for salary lines , so

51:48

the city put no money into this at

51:50

the time . But I ended up joining and coming on

51:52

to that team about a year after

51:54

probably a year and a half actually , after I first met

51:56

Martha and then at the mayor's office

51:59

, I expanded that work I was doing with developing

52:01

jobs not just for individuals with mental illness

52:03

, but now I was doing that for

52:05

the entire disability community

52:07

throughout New York City . And so through

52:09

that I was interfacing with over a hundred

52:12

different employment partners , businesses

52:14

and companies of all sizes , from

52:16

, you know , local , local art

52:18

galleries and banks to large

52:21

multinational clothing

52:24

retailers like Uniqlo . And

52:27

it was through that office , where , in that work

52:29

, because I had the jobs all the nonprofits

52:31

that we worked with through our talent coalition

52:33

they're reaching out to me 70

52:36

of them right About how they could refer

52:38

their candidates , get into jobs and things of that nature

52:41

. And so that's where the ecosystem building

52:43

started to happen and really zoom out and

52:45

understand how you can align needs across

52:47

these competing entities right , these nonprofits

52:50

, who all want their people to only have these jobs

52:52

. Align them so that we can let

52:55

all boats rise and create equity

52:57

here through that opportunity

53:00

and in that exercise as well

53:02

, strategically positioning the employer

53:04

to have access to training and technical

53:07

assistance to understand best practices

53:09

for engaging with specific disability populations

53:12

, engaging with employers to

53:14

help them to understand and develop

53:16

reasonable accommodation processes

53:18

that might otherwise just

53:20

were not in existence before

53:23

working with the mayor's office , and

53:25

so that that's what ultimately set

53:28

me up for the

53:30

partnerships position that I had where

53:32

I met you at EDC .

53:33

You know , I think that's one of the things that I that I appreciate

53:36

. You know , I think you and I you

53:38

and I overlap when we were at the New York City Economic

53:40

Development Corporation , which is a quasi-government agency

53:42

that works on

53:45

, that manages a lot of property in Rehab of the

53:47

City and is tasked with ultimately

53:49

generating job growth

53:51

and economic vitality

53:53

in the city in many different ways that they do

53:55

that . So you know , I think when

53:57

you started there

53:59

I was there in 2017

54:03

, end of 2017 , through two

54:05

years ago , right , I

54:08

think . When you came on board , folks were really

54:10

excited because you were bringing a lot of that workforce

54:13

background and you were tasked with really leading

54:16

some of the initiatives there in workforce

54:18

development partnerships in a way

54:20

that the agency didn't have yet

54:22

at the time . So you were kind of basically

54:24

spearheading a brand new initiative within

54:27

the organization . So can you talk a little bit

54:29

about what you were tasked with doing there and

54:32

how that ended up going ?

54:34

Man , look , before I even get to that , I'll tell you I

54:36

was scared to death coming into the job

54:38

. I

54:40

remember saying to my friends my

54:42

interview for the mayor's office job was the most important

54:45

one in my life . And then I remember when

54:47

the EDC opportunity became available . It

54:50

was the same thing , same moment , and

54:52

it was just because , like all

54:54

my interactions with EDC at the time , I

54:56

told this to my boss . I say

54:59

this to anyone who I worked with at

55:01

EDC or was still there now . But when

55:03

EDC was in the room it was like the men in black showed

55:05

up right , like something big was happening

55:07

. And you know you

55:10

always have the right things to say

55:12

. Edc folks came in . It was always the right

55:14

things to say . We're always on point and

55:16

there's really smart , whip , smart , intelligent

55:19

folks there who are coming from a pedigree

55:21

that on paper I

55:23

felt I didn't match with Right . So

55:25

you know , I was really dealing with that imposter

55:28

syndrome for a little bit and

55:37

it was very , very intimidating for me coming in , because

55:39

I didn't want to fail was developing a

55:42

robust set of relationships with workforce

55:44

development organizations throughout

55:47

New York City's workforce ecosystem

55:50

, so that not only includes nonprofit

55:53

institutions and community-based organizations

55:55

that are delivering these programs , but it also includes

55:57

agencies within the city

55:59

of New York that are delivering on these as well

56:02

. Really , with the goal of just hey

56:04

, let's make sure people are aware of it , let's start

56:06

by just making sure people know what we do and

56:09

then , from there , let's start to think

56:11

deeper about specific stakeholders

56:14

and those audiences to understand

56:16

where we can really deepen

56:19

that relationship even further , right

56:21

, and really start to get tactical , to talk about

56:23

, you know , specific ongoing work

56:25

that they could potentially be partnering

56:27

with us on , and , vice

56:29

versa , really listening closely to

56:32

understand how EDC

56:34

can be a good partner to

56:36

these institutions , right . Whether it be

56:38

by way of simply signing a letter of support

56:40

to helping to set up strategy

56:42

sessions , which we did for

56:44

Department of Veteran Services , as an example , with our

56:46

strategy team to have a facilitated

56:48

brainstorm , or whether it

56:50

be actually , you know

56:52

, building and operating a program together

56:55

or an initiative together , like

56:57

this , like Civic Hall at

57:00

the Union Square Tech Training

57:02

Center . That was really what my

57:04

remit was , I believe . So

57:07

I heard in terms of what prompted

57:09

the creation of my role , it came out

57:11

of the failings of Amazon HQ2 and

57:14

some of the negative sentiment that came there from

57:16

the workforce community . So

57:18

for me , anytime I felt uncertain

57:21

about what I needed to do , it

57:23

was making sure that no one ever

57:26

again could feel like we're making a

57:28

repeat of whatever those

57:30

missteps were . What the

57:32

EDC perceived that they , that they

57:34

had names on issue two , or the community

57:36

felt that they had on HQ two . I

57:38

just wanted to make sure people felt like they

57:40

could say man , I had a seat at the table

57:43

where people felt like they could say man , I had a

57:45

seat at the table and

57:52

ADC , almost to a point of eager desperation , wants to be our friend and wants to be

57:54

a good partner to us and truly believes in our mission , believes in our values

57:56

and believes in our goals and they think that it

57:59

could really strongly augment

58:01

and add value to the work that they're doing to build

58:03

strong , resilient , economically

58:06

thriving communities throughout this

58:08

great city .

58:09

You did some great work while you were there for about

58:11

two years or so , and you left as an assistant

58:14

vice president of workforce

58:16

development right Workforce development

58:18

partnerships . Tell me about what leads to

58:20

that decision to ultimately leave

58:23

an organization like EDC and what you end up doing

58:25

next .

58:25

Yeah , so I ended up moving into consulting . I'll

58:28

tell you again , talk

58:30

about themes and through lines . Right , just like

58:32

high school , just like college

58:34

. I'm at this point now where

58:36

this wasn't planned In fact , I really

58:38

wasn't looking to leave EDC . I

58:41

found myself to be very , very

58:43

happy working there Every meeting

58:45

. You know , though , we were talking about serious

58:47

things and really

58:50

hard work , intense work . I'm

58:52

smiling . People are always

58:54

thinking outside of the box . No idea

58:56

is a bad idea . It's always on the table

58:58

. It was an amazing

59:00

place to be , and you know the people and

59:03

people respected you . You know you work

59:05

at EDC . There's a , there's a cachet

59:07

that comes with it , and I started

59:09

to feel that not say I didn't feel that before

59:12

, but it just felt different , right

59:14

In terms of how you are

59:16

seen , and so , for me , I

59:19

happened to at the time this is right around the time

59:21

where the city was really deeply entrenched in developing a strategy for offshore

59:24

wind , and so at that time , this is right around the time where the city was really deeply entrenched

59:26

in developing a strategy for offshore wind , and so

59:28

, at that time , I find

59:30

myself , in all these webinars different

59:32

presentations about , still

59:35

in the pandemic . So we're all on Zoom about

59:37

offshore wind and I end up developing

59:39

a relationship with the founder of Carp Strategies

59:42

, rebecca Carp , herself

59:44

a former EDC-er and founder

59:46

. We started talking about some

59:49

open roles she had and she

59:51

was looking for folks to fill them

59:53

and start off with . Can you share with your

59:55

network ? See if you know anybody ? I appreciate

59:58

the help if you know anyone that's interested in

1:00:00

the role organization

1:00:16

. And for me at the time I wasn't sure I had my own freelance work

1:00:18

that I had been doing . I opened up a shop , had LLC for all the transactional

1:00:21

reasons , but I didn't aspire to create

1:00:23

the next Bain or McKinsey or anything like that

1:00:25

. I was doing my own little freelance thing on the side

1:00:27

to just further develop myself

1:00:30

and my skills toward where I wanted

1:00:32

to be . At this point in my life I knew I want to

1:00:34

be an executive in the nonprofit space right

1:00:36

now about the time I'm at the mayor's

1:00:38

office and going into EDC . So

1:00:41

she saw this and said why don't

1:00:43

you join us and be a director ? You got some

1:00:46

experience in consulting

1:00:48

, why don't you come on ? And it was a great

1:00:50

opportunity where I have an opportunity to

1:00:52

be managing a large , a

1:00:54

large team . I think we're at the time when

1:00:56

I joined . We're approaching 20 folks . So I get

1:00:58

to manage multiple project teams . I

1:01:00

have direct reports and a considerable

1:01:03

increase on the salary that I was making at the

1:01:05

time and a good title . So I wasn't

1:01:07

losing in terms of that mobility

1:01:10

and title and what makes you marketable

1:01:13

. I wasn't losing that in my through line

1:01:15

. I wasn't losing that . And

1:01:17

I guess , if I'm thinking of a sports card analogy

1:01:19

, if you look at the back of my card , my stat line will

1:01:22

show that progression . So

1:01:24

there was that strategically working for me toward

1:01:26

my goal . Now I'm certain right , even though

1:01:28

I didn't plan to leave , I

1:01:30

wasn't really thinking about practically

1:01:32

where I'm going to go to college , all those things

1:01:35

and what I wanted to do after

1:01:37

college while I was there . In this case

1:01:39

, I did know if I made a move strategically

1:01:41

, it needed to push me further toward

1:01:43

my goal of being a nonprofit

1:01:45

leader . And so there

1:01:47

, ultimately , it was hard but

1:01:49

I made a decision to leave EDC

1:01:51

because I saw that there was

1:01:53

a huge opportunity , as it pertained to my professional

1:01:56

goals , to take advantage of here and

1:01:58

moving over to CARP as a director , I

1:02:01

was a member of the leadership

1:02:03

team really responsible for overseeing

1:02:05

teams working on project delivery

1:02:08

but also contributing toward the

1:02:10

growth , advancement , scaling of

1:02:12

the institution . And

1:02:14

so in that time , my two years

1:02:16

there , I started off as director

1:02:18

. A year in I was then promoted to principal

1:02:21

and worked on a variety of different

1:02:23

projects . One of my first

1:02:25

projects was working

1:02:27

with Jacksonville , the Jacksonville Transit

1:02:29

Authority , on their Emerald Trail

1:02:31

project , which is public and announced

1:02:34

now . But that

1:02:36

was a great project where we were helping to negotiate

1:02:38

an MOU with their community partners so

1:02:40

they can get that work moving

1:02:43

. I take a lot of pride in what's going to come

1:02:45

with that 34-mile trail . It's going to connect

1:02:47

disparate communities , many of which are low-income

1:02:49

communities that are subject

1:02:51

to high flood risk , get minimal

1:02:53

capital resources , and it's

1:02:55

because the way the city is designed

1:02:58

makes it really difficult for individuals

1:03:00

in these communities to access jobs and opportunities

1:03:03

. But also access to downtown

1:03:05

corridor where you know money could be spent

1:03:08

because you got to keep the economy

1:03:10

in mind Right . Money could be spent because you got to keep the economy in mind Right

1:03:12

. So with this 34 mile trail

1:03:14

it's going to connect all of that and enable the

1:03:16

expanse of micromobility throughout

1:03:18

the city , the expanse , again , of access

1:03:21

to good , high paying jobs

1:03:23

, access to a better

1:03:25

quality of life experience

1:03:27

. I'm talking about , you know , leisurely things

1:03:29

that you might do to be able to go out and go to the game

1:03:31

, go to the mall do these things ? Go to a bar , let's

1:03:34

go to the stadium and watch the game . This

1:03:36

trail is going to enable that , and it's going to bring people

1:03:38

and communities together and , by

1:03:40

way of this connected trail , enabling

1:03:43

more investment as well into these disparate

1:03:45

communities , because now there's a connection

1:03:47

to the things that might seem more attractive

1:03:50

in terms of this is where I want to see the ROI come

1:03:52

from , if I'm putting my money here in this infrastructure

1:03:54

. So that was my first project , all the

1:03:56

way to Offshore Wind , where we're helping developers

1:03:59

think about how they're entering the market and , more

1:04:01

importantly , how they're making

1:04:03

true economic investments

1:04:05

that are not just cookie cutter investments

1:04:08

into the community that enables the creation of jobs

1:04:10

, investment in programs that provide

1:04:12

and offer more jobs , training , scholarships

1:04:15

, safe spaces for folks in

1:04:17

the LGBTQIA plus

1:04:19

community to be able to convene all

1:04:21

of those things . So it was a wide , vast

1:04:24

range of work that I was able to

1:04:26

really get exposed to , a really fast

1:04:28

paced environment , and so

1:04:30

it was a place where I don't want to say it wasn't

1:04:32

trial by fire , but I definitely was

1:04:34

being forged there for

1:04:37

something more . So , yeah , it was

1:04:39

a great , great opportunity . I miss

1:04:41

those folks a lot , but I'm really

1:04:44

glad to say that there's going to be a day

1:04:46

where we have the gateway tunnel built and

1:04:48

on that day you're going to be able to say

1:04:50

I know the guy who

1:04:53

helped to make that happen . That was one

1:04:55

of the final things we helped make happen before I left

1:04:57

. I

1:04:59

found out shortly after that the

1:05:01

team we're on was actually awarded to do the work

1:05:03

. So we're doing community outreach to make sure the

1:05:05

whole community knows about what's coming and

1:05:07

to make sure that they understand what's available to

1:05:09

them in terms of access to local jobs , because

1:05:12

you know those local hiring agreements

1:05:14

and PLAs , they're very real and

1:05:17

Gateway Development Commission , port Authority

1:05:19

, new Jersey Transit , city of New York

1:05:21

, all the folks involved , they see that very seriously

1:05:24

and so I

1:05:26

take a lot of pride in knowing that . You

1:05:28

know I get to work with a group that helps

1:05:30

to , you know , really help folks meet

1:05:32

those goals .

1:05:33

No , that makes sense . And you know , I definitely

1:05:36

know and appreciate Rebecca as well

1:05:38

. Definitely there's something about that

1:05:40

EDC water like , once you go

1:05:42

through those doors , that you can kind of just continue

1:05:45

to grow and do great things beyond that

1:05:47

. And , as you said , she went through those doors and then

1:05:49

found other people like yourself that went

1:05:51

through those doors . So you know , definitely

1:05:54

have interacted with both as a client

1:05:57

when I was at EDC and just working to

1:05:59

see the great work that comes out of that shop , how

1:06:01

you all are thoughtful , strategic , engaging and

1:06:03

then just kind of maintaining a personal relationship

1:06:06

. So appreciate that and I appreciate

1:06:08

you sharing that . And I know that must have been , you know

1:06:10

, a big shift right to go from

1:06:12

an organization that's about 350 some

1:06:14

odd employees to a smaller

1:06:16

shop Right , which I know they grew

1:06:19

a lot while you were there and they I think

1:06:21

are hovering around like at least

1:06:23

30 some odd employees or so at

1:06:26

this point . But you know which is amazing

1:06:28

for an organization

1:06:30

that handles that volume of work . So

1:06:32

I would like to fast forward . Tell me when

1:06:35

you walk in on Mondays , what does your job

1:06:37

look like today ? What are you doing , what are you tasked with

1:06:39

doing and remind folks where you're working

1:06:41

, where you're doing yeah , yeah .

1:06:43

So yep , as a reminder , chief Program

1:06:45

Officer at Bedford-Sypherson Restoration

1:06:48

Corporation and six weeks into the job

1:06:50

, so this could change tomorrow . Who

1:06:53

knows ? My day-to-day when I wake up and

1:06:55

get into work first , it starts

1:06:58

off with a workout . Could be better at that

1:07:00

these days , but it

1:07:02

usually starts off with a workout in the morning . Really

1:07:04

get the juices flowing . Do a few brain

1:07:06

games , I have a lot of coffee , I'm

1:07:08

in around nine o'clock and

1:07:10

I'm off to the races from

1:07:13

there . So I'm checking in with my

1:07:15

teams to see how folks are doing , kind

1:07:17

of inventorying any fires

1:07:19

that need to be put out , starting to work

1:07:21

to triage those In the morning . A lot

1:07:23

of my work is really just spent with just

1:07:26

mapping out my day

1:07:28

. On Monday , that

1:07:30

exercise is focused on mapping out the week

1:07:32

, so I'm typically meeting with

1:07:35

my program leadership team

1:07:37

to understand what we have on

1:07:39

deck for the week . What are the urgent critical

1:07:41

items that need to be raised to my

1:07:43

attention , that require me to

1:07:45

kind of unstick troubleshoot

1:07:47

? And then these programs

1:07:50

that we're offering there at Bed-Stuy

1:07:52

Restoration runs the gamut . So we

1:07:54

have weatherization , where we're doing energy efficient

1:07:56

upgrades to folks' homes . We have

1:07:59

financial empowerment program

1:08:01

. We're offering financial counseling

1:08:03

to Bed-Stuy residents . We

1:08:06

have training and placement services that

1:08:08

we offer . So we do that through

1:08:10

our Jobs Plus program . We also

1:08:12

do that through a non-Jobs Plus

1:08:14

training and placement program

1:08:16

group as well . We have

1:08:18

a tax prep team , so we offer tax

1:08:20

prep services as well . Last year , we helped

1:08:23

5,000 people get

1:08:26

$6 million in tax

1:08:28

refunds , something that we are

1:08:30

working very diligently to repeat this

1:08:33

year , and I feel like I'm leaving

1:08:35

some folks out . We have a homeownership

1:08:37

program as well there , where we

1:08:40

actually just received HUD certification

1:08:42

. So we're really happy about that Really

1:08:44

working to help people get access

1:08:46

to affordable housing and helping them

1:08:48

with providing counseling

1:08:50

that enables them to be able to have a pathway

1:08:53

to home ownership .

1:08:55

Okay , that makes sense to me . I appreciate that and okay

1:08:58

, so a lot of really great programming that comes out of that

1:09:00

and I know I've overlapped with

1:09:02

your organization in different ways . You'll

1:09:04

have a national reputation and

1:09:06

have historically done some really

1:09:08

good work for decades now . One of the things that's

1:09:10

important to me is making sure that people

1:09:12

don't think just because you're a nonprofit you cannot

1:09:15

make a good living . Can you talk to

1:09:17

folks about generally what

1:09:19

someone can make in this type of role as a chief program

1:09:21

officer ?

1:09:23

Yeah , it depends on size

1:09:25

of the organization and

1:09:27

you know financial health . But I've seen

1:09:29

, yeah , and location . Yeah , I've seen salaries as low as the mid . You know financial health , but I've

1:09:31

seen , yeah , and location . Yeah , I've seen salaries as low

1:09:33

as the mid . You know one hundreds

1:09:35

, you know mid to low one hundreds , so

1:09:37

let's call that . You know as low as 125

1:09:40

. If you're a smaller organization , I've actually

1:09:43

seen lower and again , depending on location

1:09:45

. So there's there's executives I've worked with in places like Florida , for example . There's

1:09:47

executives I've worked with in places

1:09:49

like Florida , for example , where

1:09:52

this you know CEOs

1:09:54

, you know barely touching 95

1:09:57

. So it can really vary , but

1:10:06

you can go as high as you know 200 , 200 plus , depending

1:10:08

on the organization that you're working with . I fall

1:10:10

in that range , in that range . So I won't share my number here for the audience

1:10:12

, but I will say , you know , going

1:10:14

to that note or that comment of , like

1:10:16

you know , working in nonprofit doesn't

1:10:19

mean you can't make profit , right ? There's

1:10:21

also something to be thought of , thought about in terms

1:10:23

of what makes you happy in your job

1:10:25

. You don't necessarily have to love what you do , but you

1:10:28

have to like being there , and what I will

1:10:30

say is that my mom used to say

1:10:32

this a lot it's not her

1:10:34

quote , obviously but more money , more problems

1:10:36

, right ? Like with that

1:10:38

money , there comes a certain level of stress

1:10:41

that comes along with it , right , problems

1:10:43

that not a lot of people realize

1:10:46

you're going to have to deal with . And when they do , you

1:10:48

know , might look back and say , if I knew

1:10:50

my younger self knew this , I maybe wouldn't want

1:10:52

to deal with this , right ? So I think

1:10:55

that the thing that I've

1:10:57

always wanted to impart to people is yeah

1:10:59

, you can make good money working

1:11:01

in the nonprofit space , can make even better

1:11:04

money working in the for-profit space

1:11:06

or outside of city government . But what I will

1:11:08

tell you is that if

1:11:10

you make a decision solely based on money

1:11:12

, I found that you're very

1:11:14

likely to find yourself in a place where you're not happy

1:11:17

in that situation or you feel like you're not set

1:11:19

up to succeed because the

1:11:21

thought about more money so

1:11:23

greatly overshadowed considerations

1:11:27

for your capability , your

1:11:29

aptitude and being proactive

1:11:31

to see and identify

1:11:34

where you potentially might have obstacles , so

1:11:36

you can actually know those are coming

1:11:38

, navigate them and be successful in the world . So

1:11:41

for me , I tell folks all the time , that

1:11:43

is the biggest piece . If you're happy there , everything

1:11:45

else will start to follow behind it . Right , you'll

1:11:48

get more responsibility . You'll have people

1:11:50

that want to follow you and work for you as

1:11:52

well as with you . Right , because you're happy

1:11:54

with what you're doing and you take pride and

1:11:56

enjoy it . Those are the biggest things

1:11:58

. And one quick plug on the city , though . Government

1:12:01

employment is government employment In a place

1:12:04

like the city of New York . They've got

1:12:06

a great pension and they've got great benefits

1:12:08

. Edc they offer the same things

1:12:10

as a quasi-governmental agency less the pension

1:12:12

, but a strong I think it

1:12:14

was a 403B that we got as

1:12:17

well as great benefits . Very

1:12:23

affordable in terms of what I was coming out of pocket for month over month and very

1:12:25

affordable in terms of what I was left to pay when I presented my insurance card at the end

1:12:27

of the day . So I will say that , when I think about

1:12:30

those pros and cons what

1:12:32

you're giving and taking yeah , get

1:12:34

more money , but you might not get the best insurance that

1:12:36

you want . You're likely not going to get a pension

1:12:38

. There's not many places offering a pension

1:12:41

nowadays , right , but if you're thinking about government

1:12:43

work , I know a lot of people that work in government

1:12:45

. They started at 21, . 20 years old

1:12:47

, they're 30 and they've retired and in that timeframe

1:12:50

they might've elevated to a position where

1:12:52

they are at a mid

1:12:54

to senior level position in leadership

1:12:57

and when they retire they're going to be able to get

1:12:59

that payout for the rest of their life and all those benefits

1:13:02

. So you can't say that about a lot

1:13:04

of other places . To be honest , that's

1:13:06

fair .

1:13:07

That makes sense . Are there any forms

1:13:09

of media books , movies

1:13:12

, music , podcasts that

1:13:14

have shaped you personally or professionally ?

1:13:16

Yeah , I would say , well

1:13:18

, I'm thinking of a few . Right now I'm reading

1:13:20

the First 90 Days . That

1:13:23

book has been very helpful for

1:13:25

me coming into this new role , I

1:13:27

think , as a strategic thinker , it's really

1:13:29

easy for things to go big and

1:13:31

you get lost in all of that kind

1:13:33

of abstractness as you're trying to make sense of

1:13:35

all these different things that you're learning about . You

1:13:38

know so , for example , with restoration we

1:13:40

have so many programs and we have millions of

1:13:42

dollars of funding that comes through to

1:13:44

to service those programs and

1:13:47

we have dozens of funders that

1:13:49

we work with and we get multiple

1:13:51

funders on each

1:13:54

program . So

1:13:56

there's a lot to make sense of there . Meanwhile

1:13:58

, there are roughly about

1:14:01

50 folks that are working

1:14:03

under the programs department . So

1:14:06

there's those folks that you have to get to know . You

1:14:08

have to understand the work culture , all these

1:14:10

things . So for me

1:14:12

it's really shaped me . I kind of geek out over

1:14:14

books like that . There's another book called

1:14:17

Project Management for Millennials . I

1:14:19

actually read that at EDC during

1:14:21

the pandemic . I found it to be ridiculously

1:14:24

impactful for me , especially

1:14:26

when it came to managing my flagship

1:14:28

projects and moments where

1:14:31

you know , where I saw I needed

1:14:33

to step up and I needed

1:14:35

to take a more , greater leadership role amongst

1:14:37

an interdepartmental group

1:14:39

working on

1:14:42

a project , and so that

1:14:44

was helpful . And then the founder of Tom's . I

1:14:46

haven't read this book in so many years and I'm

1:14:48

forgetting what it's called

1:14:50

, but he wrote a book and I will

1:14:52

say just Google him , find that

1:14:54

. That one stood with me for a long time and it

1:14:56

was just all about his journey in terms of how he started

1:14:58

up the company and his

1:15:00

mission-based kind

1:15:02

of work that he does through that

1:15:04

B Corp . That really resonated

1:15:07

with me in terms of where I saw myself headed

1:15:09

as a leader , as an entrepreneur

1:15:12

, you know , and just like how

1:15:14

to have that mindset and really like kind of meet people

1:15:16

where they are and inspire others . Got it

1:15:18

Start something that matters . Yes , that

1:15:20

is it Start something that matters . Yes .

1:15:22

Okay , awesome . I know it's pretty easy to

1:15:24

look at you and say , you know , this guy looks like he has all

1:15:26

his stuff together . Can you mention anything

1:15:29

or any time in your life that was particularly

1:15:31

not as linear either

1:15:34

, something that you had to overcome or endure ? That just

1:15:36

kind of made things not as

1:15:38

pleasant , as people would look at it from the

1:15:40

outside and say , oh , that guy has always had his

1:15:42

stuff together .

1:15:43

Yeah

1:15:45

, it was being let go . It was being fired from Harlem

1:15:48

United . Go , he was being fired from Harlem United

1:15:50

. Hey , kelsey , he

1:15:52

knows who he is . I keep receipts , but

1:15:55

if he saw what we talked

1:15:57

about earlier he'll

1:16:00

understand that . I understand . That's fair

1:16:02

, I love it . That

1:16:06

was a big obstacle

1:16:08

for me to get over and it was , like you know , after

1:16:10

I look

1:16:19

, it was a crazy obstacle for me to get over and it was

1:16:21

, like you know , after I look , it was crazy four months span . So

1:16:23

I leave Greater Bergen Community Action . That happened . It

1:16:26

was a kind of a pride driven moment as well projects and

1:16:28

I know I'm kind of sidelining or digressing

1:16:30

now , but you know I get this and

1:16:33

I'm going to be transparent here because I

1:16:35

feel like we don't hear enough of

1:16:37

folks who are , you

1:16:42

know , face value . We think they have it all

1:16:45

together . We don't hear enough of them talking about , like , where they had their moments

1:16:47

Right . So for me in this case , that moment was was

1:16:49

receiving a memo that you know , from

1:16:51

someone who was two doors down from me that

1:16:53

was saying you know , I'd like you to cease and desist to

1:16:55

see all at the time , like on

1:16:57

working on the working on

1:17:00

grants and stuff , because I

1:17:02

asked a lot of questions , I reported

1:17:04

to the CEO and

1:17:06

I think the person I

1:17:08

was working with at the time , understandably

1:17:11

so , were human beings . I might be thinking , hey , you

1:17:13

a plant , are you out here

1:17:15

snitching ? I don't

1:17:17

know if you're doing anything wrong . I'm just trying to learn . So

1:17:20

I have all these questions , but unfortunately

1:17:22

this moment happens and for me I'd

1:17:26

say some immaturity that was involved . But I

1:17:28

said you know what , I'm

1:17:36

going to find something better . So I get to Harlem United , I'm all gassed up . I got this nice title

1:17:38

Director of . Business Development , only to be let go a month and a half in . What am I going to say to

1:17:40

the folks that I used to work for at Greater Bergen

1:17:42

when they check in on me and see how I'm doing

1:17:44

, or like I'm trying to figure out how to get

1:17:47

some work ? I didn't know what to say . I

1:17:49

was definitely in a moment

1:17:52

of crisis , trying to figure out where do

1:17:54

I go from here , because the track

1:17:56

that I was on I don't think is possible anymore

1:17:58

. I can't lead a nonprofit after this moment

1:18:00

. What am I going to do ? And

1:18:02

all I could think of was I got to find something . I

1:18:04

guess maybe start with the title again , something that looks

1:18:07

cool . And so I

1:18:10

became an inside sales executive for three

1:18:12

months . I knew I didn't want to go outside

1:18:14

again . I like to be in

1:18:17

, but I was

1:18:19

there for about what ? Three months at ZocDoc

1:18:21

. Great service Just wasn't

1:18:24

for me . It was heavy phone

1:18:26

sales , and I was sitting

1:18:28

there wondering what the heck

1:18:30

? What am I doing ? Like

1:18:32

what am I doing ? here . This

1:18:36

is not where I see myself being , and

1:18:41

so I quit that job because I was so stressed out . I just wasn't great with over-the-phone

1:18:43

sales . I was calling the places , like you

1:18:46

know , the far northwest

1:18:48

corners of Maryland and talking to doctors

1:18:51

who maybe just got a fax machine you

1:18:53

know about an app where they

1:18:55

could book appointments , Right . So I

1:18:58

just was like I can't , I'm not connecting with this

1:19:00

. I need something more mission

1:19:02

aligned . I need something more values based

1:19:04

. For me , it wasn't

1:19:06

it what they set out

1:19:09

to do as a mission to make health care access

1:19:11

more accessible by way of technology

1:19:13

. I think that's phenomenal . I

1:19:15

just I would have let myself go as poor

1:19:17

, performing poorly , and so I said

1:19:19

I'm leaving and they asked me what I want to do . I'm going to be

1:19:21

an actor . Uh , because

1:19:24

I had I have friend a couple friends at the

1:19:26

time . One at the time was opera

1:19:28

singer still sings opera . You see

1:19:30

him at the Met fall winter season

1:19:32

or in Vienna where his home

1:19:35

opera house is . And I had another friend

1:19:37

who was doing film and TV . No

1:19:39

, like you should give this a shot , man , you got personality

1:19:42

for it . Blah , blah , blah . So I'm going to do

1:19:44

this . And so I started acting and

1:19:46

just going to open calls because I could sing . I said

1:19:48

I'm going to show up to these open calls and just sing

1:19:50

stuff and maybe I'll get a job like

1:19:52

singing background for some show on

1:19:54

Broadway and nobody knows who I am , but

1:20:02

I'll make $1,200 a week to sing and that'll be cool

1:20:04

. So that was a moment for me where I was just like completely off my beaten

1:20:06

path . I was just in the wind until Fountainhouse kind of put me back

1:20:08

on that path . That's

1:20:11

where I needed to be . And so for me

1:20:13

again it was just that determination right

1:20:15

, Going back to

1:20:18

that eighth grade prediction , but really

1:20:20

leaning in that and just saying , look , whatever's

1:20:22

going to happen is going to work out . Just focus on what's

1:20:24

in front of you and do what you got to do

1:20:26

to meet your obligations , your bills and

1:20:28

all that . And I was lucky to have my

1:20:30

. My mom god rest her soul . You

1:20:32

know my mom at the time was very

1:20:34

supportive of me and helping me out with all

1:20:36

those things . Um , but yeah

1:20:38

, I did zoc , doc . I was acting , I did

1:20:40

postmates for like two days . I

1:20:43

got hit by a car , like trying

1:20:45

to be like robin thick . Remember the first

1:20:47

robin thick music video . He had the long hair with

1:20:49

no shirt and he's like riding through new york city . He's

1:20:52

let's do this thing . That was me

1:20:54

. I was in a flow it was end of day two , toward

1:20:56

the end of day two , and I'm like I got this and I'm

1:20:58

coming down with my little backpack , turn the

1:21:00

curb and I got skipped like a rock . You would have

1:21:02

thought Thanos was real and picked me up and just

1:21:05

skipped me down second Avenue like

1:21:07

about 30 feet . And

1:21:09

that's when I said I'm done with that . So I was

1:21:11

all over . I was doing all these things and

1:21:13

I think for me , in terms

1:21:15

of just how you get over over that

1:21:17

adversity and how you got out of it on

1:21:20

the other side , I think sometimes

1:21:22

it's just sheer will .

1:21:24

I appreciate that and I think that's that's very

1:21:27

uh . I appreciate the vulnerability

1:21:29

to show that it's not all linear , right , and

1:21:31

we don't have this one LinkedIn

1:21:33

path that just looks like everything's always

1:21:35

been peachy , because that's just not real

1:21:37

. So I appreciate that . Okay , I know we've learned a

1:21:39

lot about you today , from getting hit by a car

1:21:41

to being

1:21:43

a singer , to working

1:21:47

in different industries , in

1:21:49

different spaces . We

1:21:51

didn't talk about things like you have

1:21:53

a master's , you're a professor . All

1:21:55

of these continued things that you know are

1:21:58

just completely make Ian the

1:22:00

whole person . Is there anything we have

1:22:02

not discussed today that the world should ? know , about Ian

1:22:04

.

1:22:05

You know , I feel like we hit on a lot . I

1:22:07

think for me , like , at

1:22:09

the end of the day , you know , for , as put

1:22:11

together , whatever as I may be , I'm a I'm a big

1:22:13

old man , child at heart I really , I

1:22:16

really try to enjoy , you know , every

1:22:18

moment , especially , you know , when I'm

1:22:21

having my downtime . You know I'm

1:22:23

really intense and focused at work

1:22:25

, right , and we , you

1:22:27

know some , some people they work in construction

1:22:30

. It's more physical . That's

1:22:42

not the case for me

1:22:44

, it's mental , it's up here , and so for me , the one thing I'll say that

1:22:46

I want people to know is you know , I'm just , bigly , without

1:22:49

shame , protecting those things that are

1:22:51

very important to you , you know , such

1:22:53

as you know that work-life balance and

1:22:55

that time you have to be able to recover

1:22:57

and refresh , to show up strong for what you need , but

1:23:00

also being mission driven

1:23:02

. You know how can you be , how

1:23:05

can you do something that is , you

1:23:07

know , in service to others and the

1:23:09

community around you . You

1:23:12

know , in service to others and the community around you . You know , I feel like maybe that was heard today , but you know that was the biggest

1:23:14

thing , otherwise I would have said singing , Cause most

1:23:16

people I work with . Do not know that about me .

1:23:19

I love that . No , that's awesome , I think . Thank

1:23:22

you for sharing that and thank you for oh , wait

1:23:24

, wait . I got .

1:23:24

I got one . I got one thing , even though I don't know if

1:23:26

he's watching , but I'll tell . I'll tell him to watch Jay

1:23:29

Book from B2K . I out

1:23:31

drank him he's

1:23:35

a great guy . He's a great guy

1:23:37

. He was actually in a play man of the House that

1:23:40

I'm in . It's the only play that I do . They

1:23:42

are all like family to me and

1:23:44

we've brought in a number of different guest

1:23:47

stars , including Willie Teller from Day 26,

1:23:49

. Chris Williams uh

1:23:51

, if you're a big r&b head , you know um

1:23:53

, so don't wake me . I'm dreaming chris

1:23:55

king , who's now in the cast . He

1:23:57

people might know him from while and out or his

1:23:59

viral youtube impressions

1:24:02

.

1:24:02

I know him as the guy that went to high school with me . Yeah

1:24:05

, I know we got a mutual friend there yeah , he's and

1:24:07

he's great .

1:24:08

He's great and all these folks , you know we're

1:24:10

, that's what we're about . You

1:24:17

know whether you get , whether you're famous or whether you know you're me or one of the

1:24:20

other cast members in the show , and that's why I stay around it , because we , we're

1:24:22

, we're . We all walk with the energy of how can we

1:24:24

make the world better around us . And

1:24:26

I think on this evening in particular , in

1:24:28

West Orange , new Jersey , I

1:24:30

made Jay Boog better , a better

1:24:33

person . He went back

1:24:35

to California and I'm sure that he's

1:24:37

practiced how to , you

1:24:39

know , drink a little , one or two more drinks

1:24:41

, more , more than I , more than I can , and

1:24:43

I take pride in knowing that

1:24:45

I had a great time getting

1:24:47

to , to commiserate with a

1:24:50

boy band and , uh , early 2000s

1:24:52

r&b pop superstar .

1:24:53

So yeah , that's

1:24:55

great man . You're amongst the legends . I appreciate

1:24:57

that .

1:24:58

No , I'm not don't get me wrong that's

1:25:01

awesome .

1:25:02

All right , thank you .

1:25:03

I appreciate you joining us today yeah , for sure , man

1:25:05

, thanks for having me I hope you enjoyed this episode

1:25:07

.

1:25:07

If you did and believe on the mission we're on , please

1:25:09

like , rate and subscribe to this podcast

1:25:11

on whatever platform you're using , and share this podcast

1:25:14

with your friends and your networks . Make sure you follow

1:25:16

us on Instagram and LinkedIn at

1:25:18

Career Cheat Code and tell us people

1:25:21

or careers you would like to see highlighted . See

1:25:23

you next week with some more cheat codes . Peace

1:25:25

.