0:03

Everyone , welcome to another episode of Carry On

0:05

Friends , the Caribbean American podcast . I'm

0:07

excited because my guest today is Wesley-Jean

0:10

Simon Wesley . welcome to the podcast

0:13

. How are you ?

0:14

I'm good . How are you doing ?

0:16

I am doing wonderful . So why

0:18

don't you tell the community of friends a little bit about

0:20

who you are , caribbean country

0:23

you represent and the work that

0:25

you do ?

0:26

Well , my name is Wesley-Jean Simon . I'm Jean Simon

0:28

with you , from the French Caribbean . I

0:31

represent the Haitian community in culinary

0:33

art in Brooklyn , new York . So

0:35

I'm currently on Selmy restaurant

0:37

here in Brooklyn

0:39

on North Shrine Avenue and in Soho

0:42

on Spring Street , and we just opened

0:44

a brewery with crafted

0:46

pizza in Brooklyn , again

0:48

on North Shrine Avenue again . So

0:51

we try to grow more in the community and present more Caribbean

0:53

food , better culture , better food , better life

0:55

.

0:56

All right . So what was the

0:58

last place you opened ? a pizza .

1:01

It's a brewery and pizza , so we brew

1:03

our own beer in the neighborhood . Yes

1:05

, and we do crafted pizzas

1:07

. So we try to accommodate the community . Like

1:10

you know , we do a chicken pizza

1:12

, we'll do a hair and pizza , we'll

1:14

do a pinot pizza

1:17

and a gruyo pizza . So we

1:19

try to represent all the culture in the Caribbean and give

1:21

them something on the pizza .

1:23

That is amazing . All right , so before

1:25

we get into that right , tell

1:27

me about what life

1:30

was like for you growing

1:32

up in a very Caribbean Haitian

1:35

family community and what

1:37

led you to get into the

1:39

culinary arts .

1:41

Well , i basically grew up in a big

1:44

Caribbean culture in Jersey , so

1:46

I went to high school in Jersey and I moved to Brooklyn about

1:48

15 years ago . My biggest influence

1:50

is just that I like culture

1:52

, i love culture . I'm from Haiti , you

1:55

know . It's all music , song and dance and we

1:57

all always been a happy people . And

2:00

moving to Brooklyn , i used to live in Crown

2:02

Heights in a more of a Jewish neighborhood

2:04

, so I felt uncomfortable . Whenever

2:06

I walk outside , i couldn't find nothing to eat

2:09

And I wanted to live in

2:11

a better community where I can walk outside

2:13

, speak queer or speak some type of patois

2:16

and enjoy my people and my culture

2:18

. Because , after

2:20

being in college , being in Jersey , living

2:23

amongst everybody else , i wanted to

2:25

come home . So I decided to move to Flatbush

2:27

about seven years ago . So , when

2:29

I walk outside my door , there's jerk chicken

2:31

, there's different type of roti , there's

2:34

, like you know , haitian beef patty , there's

2:36

Jamaican beef patty . So on my

2:38

way to work as an executive sous chef

2:40

for Hard Rock Cafe , i had to

2:42

grab something to eat on my way to work And

2:44

I wanted to eat my culture before I indulge

2:47

into everybody else's culture's food . So

2:49

that's the reason why I love my

2:51

Caribbean people and I love my neighborhood

2:54

And I wanted to basically

2:56

open my restaurant in my neighborhood so

2:58

I could let them taste a part of my culture

3:00

.

3:02

You know I am so excited for you

3:04

and excited that you

3:06

are on this podcast , because , as

3:08

we get more globalized and everyone

3:10

is getting to know our culture

3:13

, on one hand this is part of the

3:15

work you do right You're creating meals

3:17

for us , but you also want people outside

3:20

our culture to experience our

3:22

food . So how do you balance

3:24

the authenticity of

3:26

our culture with sharing

3:29

that culture with the world ? How do you balance that

3:31

?

3:32

But let's just dig into jerk chicken

3:34

, right ? You know , if you go to Jamaica you

3:36

could get a jerk chicken sandwich .

3:38

I know that .

3:39

So just picture if we could get a jerk

3:41

chicken sandwich . What is a pizza ? It's a dough

3:43

. You know you got to get a closed bread , like you know

3:45

got to open tenders so you can actually

3:48

paint anything you want on that tenders . So

3:50

I don't take away from the jerk , i do not take

3:52

away from the meat itself or the

3:54

taste or the seasoning . I

3:57

give you the same thing . But you know you just sit

3:59

it on the pizza with cheese . If you want to get cheese

4:01

, you want the cheese . You want the red sauce , you don't want the red

4:03

sauce . You want it with white sauce , you get it with

4:05

white sauce . But you still get that same taste

4:07

of jerk when you bite into the pizza You feel

4:09

like you're eating jerk on a pizza

4:11

. So I did not take away nothing .

4:14

Well , it's not so much for you non

4:16

Caribbean folks when they

4:18

do things of the culture , like you

4:21

know , even Haitian dishes , like real

4:23

, like how , how we

4:25

expand folks to

4:27

enjoy , or cuisine , but

4:30

not necessarily . I

4:32

don't know what's the word , because I see it

4:34

all the time on the internet and I know you've seen

4:36

it where people complain .

4:38

I can tell you all about it . Like you know , i have an Instagram

4:40

and I had a few videos that's been going viral

4:42

. So when you reach a million view

4:44

, that's when you start seeing , like the

4:47

people coming out of the woodwork . Like you know

4:49

, we posted something about , like you know , a

4:51

Haitian spaghetti which starts , like you know , with

4:53

hot dogs . we do ours hot

4:55

dog deep fried first , then we take it

4:57

out of the oil , then we put it in a

4:59

red sauce , then we do it with spaghetti and everything

5:01

. This video got 1.7 million

5:04

view And now you see everybody

5:06

coming out of the woodwork Oh , haitians , don't

5:08

make this , haitians , don't make that . This is Italian

5:11

and you've got people all the way in Italy It's

5:13

like commanding ordinary talking about , oh , italian

5:16

. then you got the other part of the island talking about

5:18

Italian and the pastor You

5:20

guys claim pastor . the Chinese have been pastor

5:22

. So basically , what I

5:24

always tell people about food there's

5:26

no new meat under the earth unless we haven't

5:29

discovered it's gotta be under the ocean . There's

5:31

no new rice , no new

5:33

wheat , no new bread

5:35

you inventing or anything . Food

5:38

is belong to the humanity . So

5:40

if I'm a Haitian , i wanna develop something

5:42

better and feed my people and introduce

5:44

them to something new . I'm not breaking

5:47

away from the culture . I'm not doing nothing

5:49

but a culture , but enticing them

5:51

to try a different culture , the one that doesn't

5:53

travel to see different culture , but make

5:56

them feel it in a comfortable space . So

5:59

if I'm doing pizza , just picture from Haiti

6:01

I'm doing pizza . pizza is not from Haiti , that's

6:03

not that in a pizza shop in Haiti . But

6:05

if I wanna put the grillo on top of the pizza , so

6:07

I'm making you feel welcome , so you could

6:09

have that grillo taste on top

6:12

of something new , so I'm introducing

6:14

that to my culture . I read an article about

6:16

three months ago and ranking

6:18

in food in the world , like which

6:20

country is number one , number two , number three Haitians

6:22

actually came out

6:24

to number 58 . And

6:27

our food is great . the whole Caribbean knows

6:29

we got great food . The whole Korean knows Jamaican

6:32

banging on food . But when you

6:34

see those ratings , because the rest of the world don't know

6:36

our food , so they don't know how to grade us , so

6:39

there's no way you're gonna tell me the

6:42

French can cook better than us . They don't grow nothing

6:44

in France . We all know that

6:46

. they do not grow anything in France . This

6:48

is why I mean I'm not attacking the French .

6:51

No , no , no , no . But that's . You touch on

6:53

something that I literally wrote

6:55

down here , where I've heard it

6:57

been said many times that Caribbean

6:59

food doesn't plate well because

7:02

that's how they're ranking it presentation

7:04

, and I don't think that's

7:07

true . Not forget , i don't think that's

7:09

true , i know that's not true . So

7:11

what do you say to critics who say

7:13

, well , of course , caribbean

7:15

food , haitian food , jamaican Trini , whatever

7:17

food , it's messy , it doesn't plate

7:19

well . What's your response to that ?

7:21

Well , it's how you take it . Like you , let's just

7:23

say , right , a chef that's well trained , being the

7:26

culinary school , you can

7:28

present the meat however you want on

7:30

a plate and make it look the way you wanna make it

7:32

, but the essence of

7:34

the food you cannot take away from it , the taste

7:36

, the culture you cannot take away from it

7:38

. But when you're looking at , like you know those , like you know high

7:40

end chef , how to plate food , the food don't

7:42

look like it came from any country , it's

7:44

just a picture on a plate . So that's

7:46

why they're saying it doesn't plate . Well , it's because

7:49

they're repainting the picture on a

7:51

plate but they're not taking away the taste

7:53

from the plate . So when there's the

7:55

Caribbean , food don't taste well . I have a picture

7:57

in my phone that I don't share with people

7:59

My take on grill . I

8:02

did a eight ounce piece of , like

8:04

you know , pork shoulder . I

8:07

asked to be like I boil it down , make

8:09

it like , do all the steps with it . Then I

8:11

cut it down to size , make it look like a block

8:13

. Then I deep fry at

8:16

500 degrees So you can get like a nice crisp

8:18

around it . Then I sit in on a bed of sauce

8:21

with the glaze on it . Then I use the

8:23

plantain , i mash the plantain , i did some of that

8:25

design with it , but a Haitian

8:27

looking at it they'll be like , oh , that's not grill , cause

8:29

it's not small pieces , but when you

8:31

taste it it tastes exactly like grill

8:33

. So it's how you present it on a plate

8:36

. So the day before yesterday

8:38

I was the judge of the Bobby Flay . We got to

8:40

release it next winter And

8:43

what they were doing they were doing jerk

8:45

chicken . So Bobby Flay was doing

8:47

jerk chicken And another chef from

8:49

Florida that have a food stand was

8:51

doing jerk chicken and the guy is

8:53

white And he

8:55

loved Caribbean food . He loved

8:57

the people around it And what he did ? he married

9:00

the jerk chicken with Picles , the Haitian

9:02

Picles cabbage , and

9:04

he presented and he beat Bobby Flay with it .

9:07

I could see how that works .

9:09

But think about it . He beat Bobby Flay with it and

9:11

he presented a certain way on a plate

9:13

And I was one of the judges . I was shocked

9:16

, Like when I walked into the stage , two

9:18

white guy competing about jerk chicken . So

9:21

how can you say you got a top

9:23

chef like Bobby Flay Flating

9:26

jerk chicken and he said Caribbean food don't play

9:28

well , Why is it doing on a shelf ? So

9:31

it's just that stigma that people got in the back

9:33

of their head , Cause most of our Caribbean food

9:35

, cause the island is so hot , we don't do

9:37

that much restaurant . Everything we do is outdoor . You

9:39

hang out , So all the food basically

9:42

become more street food than like in

9:44

restaurant food , Cause we

9:46

our door people , we under the

9:48

sun people . So when

9:51

people talking like that , when you came from Haiti , we know

9:53

, with the hardship of the war , what's going

9:55

on in Haiti now there's barely

9:57

any restaurant , There's no movie theater , There's no culinary

9:59

arts restaurants And

10:02

people can lose that

10:04

sense of like . You know we can do this . Well

10:06

, My job in this

10:08

community is to represent my culture

10:10

and be like hey , we can do this too . We can turn a

10:12

picture . Don't get it messed up .

10:15

I feel the same way . It's like you

10:18

remember the commercial Anything you can

10:20

do , i can do better . Yeah

10:22

, that's how I feel . I feel like we

10:24

rise to the occasion . That's the culture

10:26

of what we come from collectively

10:29

. You know that We can do this

10:31

. It's amazing , it's beautiful . You know

10:33

, like I remember years ago there

10:35

was a discussion friends and I were having that

10:37

the concept of combining

10:39

cocoa and milk to make hot chocolate

10:41

was discovered in Jamaica , and

10:44

so and people are like , no , that's not true . And

10:46

the story behind it was that

10:49

the enslavers

10:51

, they couldn't stomach the cocoa

10:53

, so the slaves

10:55

, they added milk to kind

10:57

of ease the flavor , and

11:00

that's how it got exported and became hot chocolate . And

11:03

it's almost as if the conversation is like a

11:06

little place like that couldn't

11:09

have made such a discovery .

11:10

I think it's not even white folks . You know , in

11:12

my position right now and

11:15

what I'm doing , i can only mess my own thing up . I don't think nobody else

11:18

can mess it up with me , so it's not like white folks

11:21

. Thinking about our food is this it doesn't play well

11:23

, it's our own people . That's actually lacking

11:25

the way we played our own

11:27

food .

11:28

I agree . I agree because we don't always

11:30

support , and I think it's

11:32

the idea of what

11:34

we see put out and

11:36

what we are comparing our food to , but we just

11:38

know that it tastes good . So

11:42

it's this idea of it doesn't feel refined

11:44

and sophisticated and

11:46

we complain about it .

11:48

If you're looking at the Italians , the French , the

11:50

Spaniards , the German , they

11:52

did not create no culinary art at all . That's

11:54

still in Poma del Canto . So

11:56

whatever they bring into their table to their house , it's

11:59

coming from our culture , it's coming from Egypt , it's

12:01

coming from Africa , it's coming from the Caribbean . Even

12:04

Rum . They all try to claim Rum desktop . Whatever

12:06

Rum wasn't created , it

12:09

was in the islands . And you know

12:11

, certain things like beer wasn't

12:13

created in , like Germany , the way they act like

12:15

it was created , it wasn't . So

12:18

a lot of people don't even understand . We

12:20

lost the essence of who we are , and

12:23

I'm the biggest African black . I'm talking about 1804

12:26

, when it's come down to Haitian people , we

12:28

are now . We need to do better . We need to

12:30

stand up and stop dwelling on the past . Let's move

12:33

forward and show them who we were and

12:35

who we are now . But our

12:37

own people is not knocking the food , knocking

12:40

the drinks , knocking the culture . Oh

12:42

, why do you wear bright colors ? It's

12:44

in our culture . We invented Marigua

12:47

, not New Orleans , you

12:49

know . So the Caribbean invented so much

12:51

and we bought culture too , like

12:53

the funerals in New Orleans . It

12:55

started back in Haiti , in Jamaica

12:58

. We celebrate our people . So

13:01

when you're looking at 1804

13:03

, it started with Jamaica . When I tell people 1804

13:06

started with Jamaica , that was like I said that

13:08

Haiti was the first week . I was like bookman

13:10

from Jamaica Stop

13:12

. The father of the revolution

13:14

is from Jamaica . So

13:17

the only problem we have with the Jamaican in Haitian

13:19

is a both stop away .

13:22

We're all cousins dropped off at little islands

13:24

and that's it . But Like you live in

13:26

Flatbush , i live in East Flatbush , exactly

13:29

exactly . You know what I love

13:31

about just this conversation with you . I

13:33

really didn't even expect it to go this way and

13:35

I think it's this mutual love for

13:37

culture and or cultural

13:39

expressions and you know , food

13:42

is just one of those things , because we love

13:44

food as a culture . It's

13:47

the kitchen , the fireside , every

13:49

occasion we have , what do we do Cook

13:52

, what do we do Eat You

13:54

?

13:54

don't go to a Caribbean person without getting some food .

13:56

Exactly , exactly

13:58

. So what do you think ? I guess

14:01

food is like you said it's a universal

14:03

language , but what specifically makes

14:05

it extra special , as we are

14:07

in the fusion of what's

14:09

Brooklyn and bringing all of these

14:11

cultures together , what makes it even

14:13

so much more yummy

14:16

and dynamic and interesting and

14:18

communal with all of these flavors

14:20

coming together ? What is your perspective ?

14:22

When you come down with flavors . you know we

14:24

invented flavor in the islands . We

14:26

brought flavor to America . But

14:29

let's go further . Christopher Columbus

14:31

did not discover America , it

14:33

came to the island . So what he was looking for

14:35

? spice . So when

14:38

we do our food we put spice . It's not spicy

14:40

, we got blends of spice . When you do that jerk

14:43

spice , you know how many seasonings

14:45

you put in a jerk spice to get that flavor

14:48

. No way around the world can

14:50

come up with that type of combination and make

14:52

it work .

14:53

And you know why they did it . It was for

14:55

the very basic thing It was

14:57

for meat preservation . That's really

14:59

the original intent of it . So

15:02

out of all of that , it's the ingenuity

15:04

of it . We give the world flavor .

15:07

So when we brought the flavor from the Caribbean , we brought it

15:09

to Brooklyn . We brought it to a place like Florida

15:11

and , like you know , Caribbean community . in

15:13

Boston or Atlanta

15:15

We actually

15:17

feeding more people right now per capita

15:20

when somebody wants some good food , when

15:22

they say good food , they're not running

15:24

to my hat , no more . That's what I'm witnessing

15:26

in Brooklyn right now . They're not running to my hat

15:28

, They're coming to Brooklyn . So

15:31

Brooklyn is , like you know , becoming a

15:33

flavor hub for all

15:35

things .

15:36

Caribbean . Listen , i was just

15:38

talking to a colleague and

15:40

I was talking about how , many

15:42

years ago , how it was a

15:45

diss to say , oh , they're

15:47

Bridgettonal people because

15:49

they weren't from Manhattan

15:52

, and now it's cool to

15:54

be Bridgettonal , right ? Guess what ?

15:55

That's what I told even Haitian people . They're saying , like

15:58

you know , all the white men , the desk , hey , they're so

16:00

bad . I said you know what man

16:02

? let's just build our place , let's build

16:04

our city , let's build our neighborhood . I remember

16:06

, in the neighborhood we are right now , in

16:09

Brooklyn and in Hawton , Three

16:11

years ago , when we opened the restaurant , it was 11

16:13

, three deaths . But

16:15

we started doing community work . We started black

16:18

industry , doing black bodies . We started , like you

16:20

know , having , like you know , city council people

16:22

coming in the area And , like you know , we have great

16:24

food People coming from Manhattan . We're getting visibility

16:26

from CBS , abc , like New

16:28

York Times , and they're

16:31

sharing that on word zero .

16:33

That's amazing . That is amazing

16:35

. I am . I mean , i'm so excited

16:37

, audience . I do not know if you hear

16:39

the excitement , because this

16:42

is the work that we all talk

16:44

about wanting to see

16:46

, and Wesley's doing that

16:48

. So let's shift a little

16:50

bit to talk about how you went from

16:53

having your first restaurant to now having what

16:56

three business , or the third business open . What

16:59

was that process like And what

17:02

are the lessons you have learned And

17:04

would you encourage anyone else to do as

17:06

it comes to

17:08

opening a business in the community ?

17:11

You can open any business in the community . You

17:13

can open any restaurant if you want to . My

17:16

advice do not open anything

17:18

. You have no background . Do

17:21

not open anything . You're not an expert . Stay

17:25

in your lane . Stay in

17:27

your lane . Don't think you got a

17:29

background in finance and you don't have $2 million

17:31

. You're going to open a restaurant . You will

17:33

fail . You will hate

17:35

your life , you will hate the business . You will

17:37

be like why did I get my stuff into it ? My

17:40

only thing I did not have the money , but

17:42

I have the experience . I had the expertise , so

17:45

I'm worth four , five men in my business

17:47

compared to somebody who

17:49

has money but don't have the expertise , so

17:51

you're gonna have to pay four , five men to do that type

17:54

of job . So my best advice

17:56

to anybody you can do whatever you want in life

17:58

It's your prerogative and actually

18:00

do it with blindness . But

18:03

do not go outside of your lane . Don't

18:06

paint outside of the line . Do

18:09

something you do , you know how and you will be

18:11

successful at it . Have some type of background in it

18:13

, because if you

18:15

try to get your way in the restaurant

18:18

business , you will close . We

18:20

usually call it green opening , green closing , because

18:23

, believe me , it's hard . From what

18:25

they're saying I've already . Yeah , i

18:28

think it's the hardest business to open in the world . The restaurant

18:31

business is the hardest business . I mean it's the

18:33

best business , the finest business . It's

18:36

feeding people , it's the love , the energy . But

18:39

keep it going . The back end of it is the hardest

18:41

spot , especially in the city like New York . There's

18:44

a lot of rules and regulations . There's a

18:46

lot of violation you can run

18:48

into Even setting

18:51

up a restaurant from scratch . Like if you don't have a hand wash taking

18:53

a certain area , it's a violation . They'll

18:56

shut you down . If you don't have , like , a

18:58

grease trap and they're

19:00

setting in a certain way on a certain fee , it's

19:03

a violation . If

19:05

you store your stuff , it's got to be six inches off the ground

19:07

. Anything on the floor is a violation

19:09

, because New York State is after the money . So

19:11

for you to operate you got to be operating within

19:14

the guidelines And that's one thing I always tell restaurant

19:17

owners when , like you know , they

19:19

want me to come and consult for them . If they're a black

19:21

restaurant , a Caribbean restaurant , i'll do it for free , because

19:24

I know you don't have the money

19:26

. I'm not after your money . I'm in

19:28

America , i know where the money's

19:30

at , so I will come for free , i'll walk

19:32

, then I'll do a walkthrough by myself . I don't want

19:34

the only next minute . I don't want nobody , like

19:36

you know , being biased

19:39

of what I need to do as my knowledge and understand my experiences

19:41

. Then when I hit them with

19:43

three or four pages worth of violation

19:45

, they're like yeah , that's

19:48

what it takes to run a restaurant in Brooklyn . And

19:51

I'm kind of seeing , like on my block alone , six

19:53

restaurants closed beside hardship health department

19:56

too , and we don't have the expertise

19:58

. We try our best . Somebody said you

20:00

go a great chef or you're a great cook . You're

20:02

a great cook . Then next thing you know you got some tax money

20:05

or somebody fall into your head . You

20:07

open a restaurant , then next thing you

20:09

know the steak come at me . It's

20:11

a dream crusher . So it's really hard

20:13

. Don't do nothing outside of

20:15

your life . You got to have some kind of knowledge , like

20:18

you . Being a podcast , i bet you listen to it a million times

20:20

before you get into it . So

20:23

you make it your life . So

20:25

that's what I want people to do , you're right .

20:28

It took me a couple of years before I decided to

20:30

launch a podcast . From the time I wanted to do it

20:33

to the time I launched , it was

20:36

two , almost three years . There you go .

20:38

So you have to at least get a . let's just

20:40

get an associate degree in it Pretty much

20:42

. You know there's

20:44

a joke , like in the restaurant business , like every time somebody makes

20:47

a mistake or has a big tap , a loss . Like you know , in

20:50

the restaurant business somebody lost some tap of money

20:52

And we'll look at each other like

20:54

, hmm , so you just got

20:56

another degree in stupid . You have to pay

20:58

for it .

20:58

No , but you know what ? You

21:01

just brought up an amazing point , because

21:03

there are so many restaurant

21:06

closings and you said

21:08

it's one thing about

21:11

the financing and

21:13

the availability , but , just like the regulations

21:15

make it really

21:17

hard for small businesses or small

21:19

restaurants to even survive . So

21:22

I think you made up . You know that was just a good

21:24

point , because I know a lot of us

21:26

. We look out and say , wow

21:28

, this restaurant is no longer here And

21:30

you wonder what happened . But you're giving us some

21:32

insight and why it's important

21:35

for the community to support the

21:37

restaurants in our community , especially

21:40

the ones that you know are

21:42

representing the culture . So

21:44

now , what are you looking

21:46

to do in the future with all these restaurants and business

21:49

? I have to come and

21:51

try it out , because you are so excited about the

21:53

food . I'm excited about it already

21:55

.

21:55

Our biggest issue right now , really in the part , is we

21:58

grow in so fast and

22:00

I'm a very aggressive businessman , like in certain

22:03

part . Like you know , if I find an opportunity

22:05

I'm not going to let it go . The next thing

22:07

I'm going to go . I ain't got no luck . I'm not that type of guy

22:09

. If it is an opportunity , i'm going to jump on it . If

22:11

it is something , i'm going to try my best . If

22:14

I fail , i fail , try it on

22:16

my feet , not on my back

22:18

. So I'm that type of person

22:20

and I think sky's the limit , because if

22:22

I could look at the sky , i can reach out my

22:24

hands and grab it . So I'm that type of guy . It's

22:27

beautiful , it's a great thing We're

22:30

doing right now in the community . We're getting a lot of praise . The

22:32

back end is very hard with finance

22:34

and everything else . Like you know , payroll

22:36

, like all the violations , what

22:39

we got to do with the bills is winding up

22:41

And New York City is extremely expensive . The

22:43

rent is out of the freaking world

22:46

. Now we have three

22:48

. We want to find two in every

22:50

day . So we were just

22:52

busy like no , we got this one , we're opening this one , we're

22:54

opening this one . So we wasn't paying attention to really

22:56

focus , like me as a chef . Now

22:58

I wanna stop , take a break

23:01

and start doing culinary stuff . Like

23:04

you said earlier in the beginning , i wanna

23:06

start putting pictures on plates . I wanna

23:08

do structure on chef tables , special events

23:10

, like people can actually see Caribbean

23:12

food can be played , can be represented

23:14

in certain lights , cause I'm

23:17

being invited to a lot of different like shows

23:19

and competitions

23:21

and everything else , so I can be playing Caribbean

23:24

food like it was the best I'd invited . So

23:27

I gotta start taking my time now to show

23:29

, showcase . My next focus is about

23:31

showcasing Caribbean food . Like

23:34

you know , hit those TV shows like Bobby

23:36

Flay , chef Tables , health

23:39

Kitchen , whatever it is like I need to

23:41

hit . Like you know , next week I'm

23:43

doing the dish with CBS . So

23:46

I gotta represent , like you know , haitian

23:48

culture , the Caribbean culture , little Haiti

23:50

, little Caribbean , how we have this great

23:53

gem in this neighborhood and how

23:55

can we invite the rest of the world to come

23:57

see it . So that's what my

23:59

next focus is gonna be on . So when people

24:01

gonna see us on TV , see

24:03

us on the news or on a podcast

24:05

, we not try to like no blow

24:08

up , make money . There's

24:10

really not that much money in two or three

24:12

restaurants when you have two or three partners

24:14

. My focus is what

24:16

I wanted to do first , from the beginning , so

24:19

I'm taking back the basic . I wanna be a chef

24:21

again , not a businessman . I

24:23

wanna be a chef again . I wanna feed people

24:25

. I wanna show the culture to the

24:27

rest of the world . Like you know , we on Instagram

24:29

people's fighting us from Tyrone . I'm

24:32

like what the hell is Tyrone ? I'm seeing

24:34

people following us from Istanbul . I'm like

24:36

, okay , istanbul , are you in the house ? And

24:39

they haven't come in under us . So that's Istanbul

24:42

that never had Haitian food , that

24:44

never had Caribbean food . And they're wondering

24:46

now that , digging into our pages , like when

24:48

I'm in New York , i know what to check

24:50

out . It's not about Haitian or anything

24:53

. It's about black food stepping

24:55

up , just like African food is doing their thing

24:57

right now . Nigeria we

24:59

invented food .

25:01

So that brings me to the other question that I

25:03

have , the culinary

25:05

arts . so most of us are

25:07

home taught , home grown

25:10

, and not many

25:12

are encouraged to formally

25:14

go to school

25:17

and perfect this art . So

25:19

what do you say to anyone listening

25:21

, a parent , a godparent , whoever , to

25:24

encourage folks to take

25:26

their career to that next level ? you know , consider

25:28

culinary school , whatever it is .

25:31

I don't have a culinary degree . What

25:33

? Yes , i've

25:36

been trained by newer chefs , so

25:38

when you're looking at it , i was an apprentice

25:41

. Ooh , i put

25:43

my head down .

25:44

So that's the next question How do more

25:46

people get into apprenticeships then

25:48

?

25:48

I can tell you how to get to apprenticeship . But

25:51

right now , to finish my

25:53

story , i work with

25:55

Chef . I work with racist Chef that throw a plate

25:57

at me . But I had to learn . Yes

26:00

, chef , just like you see on TV , when

26:02

you're working with a chef , he don't need

26:04

your opinion , you want his knowledge . Shop

26:06

the hell up and learn . It's

26:08

simple . There's

26:11

no place for cockiness in the kitchen . There's no place

26:13

for arrogance in the kitchen . Unless

26:15

you're running your own kitchen , the chef don't need your

26:17

opinion . The chef did not put everything

26:20

on the line , open his restaurant , everything he owns

26:22

, to hear your mouth , especially if his

26:24

restaurant is successful . If

26:26

you want to learn this art , you

26:28

got to work for it . I got people that went to culinary

26:30

school . They're working in my kitchen when

26:32

I was working in the city . I

26:35

find them in the two days . It's not

26:37

for them . Going to school for culinary

26:39

doesn't make you a chef . No

26:42

one ought to go to school plate something

26:44

. Do it at home . When you take six hours to make

26:47

two plates doesn't make you a chef . Chef

26:50

is agility , speed and

26:52

the know-how . If you don't have the agility

26:54

, you don't have the speed . You have the eye for it . You

26:57

cannot be a chef . First

26:59

thing in being a chef is speed and agility , simple

27:01

. That's why chefs have very

27:03

high tempered . They're drive with blinders . It's

27:05

just like something clear . They're on automatic

27:08

, they're rolling .

27:10

You just used a term that you used previously

27:13

and I meant to ask you to clarify

27:15

it , and now you're bringing it up again . You said

27:17

drive with blindness . Tell me what that

27:19

means .

27:20

For me what it means with me When

27:24

I wanted to open the restaurant , everybody knows I

27:26

could cook Yeah , great cook

27:28

. I got a chef job . I

27:30

got a manager . Get your manager's job . But

27:33

can you do it ? First of all , you came from Haiti

27:35

third of our country , from the slums . You

27:38

don't have the money . How

27:40

can you raise the fund to get it done ? Who

27:42

are you going to listen to saying you can't do this ? you can't do

27:44

that Because we grew up in a

27:46

culture that nobody believed in each other , because

27:49

that's what they put in their head , just

27:52

like you're talking about . The jerk chicken , the plate and the

27:54

Caribbean food cannot be played . We

27:56

always seen the negative part of everything . So

27:59

that's when you put your blinders on . I'm

28:01

going to play it . I'm going to get it done

28:03

. I don't care what you said , i don't care what my

28:05

mom said , i don't care what my sister said , my

28:08

friends , my ex-girlfriend , anybody

28:10

. I'll lose relationship to get

28:12

this started . If that's what you want

28:14

for your dream , get it done . Stop

28:16

talking to people , stop entertaining

28:19

people crap , stop , stop

28:21

. The focus should be on

28:23

you Blinders Like you're like a

28:25

horse running down an aisle Until

28:28

you get to that goal . Don't stop

28:30

running . Do

28:32

not stop running , and I think that's how every

28:34

Caribbean is supposed to be when they're doing something

28:36

Get to the finish line . There's

28:38

a saying in Creole that the

28:41

world don't care how you

28:43

make it . The world don't

28:46

want to know how you make it , they

28:49

only believe in results . At the

28:51

end , give them results .

28:54

Wow , wow , wow

28:56

, wow . They only

28:59

want the results , not

29:01

the how . Ok .

29:03

They don't want the story Yeah .

29:05

They don't want the story And the victim always tell the

29:07

story .

29:07

at the end of the day , right Doesn't matter . There's 300

29:10

people behind this And he's an asshole . I'm

29:12

telling a story .

29:13

Wow , wow

29:16

. This is just such an amazing

29:18

, energetic conversation for me , because

29:20

I feel the passion coming

29:22

through And , like I said , i feel your drive and

29:25

this desire

29:27

to tell everybody that we

29:29

can do better and we're doing better . And

29:32

look look at what I'm doing . You are just

29:34

saying that I don't care , i don't care .

29:36

Whatever you're saying , i don't listen . You

29:39

could be on TV , on radio , saying how

29:41

Haiti got gangs , this , that I

29:43

don't care , but I

29:45

got a gang of food in my kitchen right now And

29:48

I got a gang of people coming outside to taste my

29:50

food . So if you want to look at those gangs

29:52

, but there's other people that want to see

29:54

the gang that I'm creating right now , the

29:57

culinary gang , the positivness , the

29:59

people that's willing to drop , the people that's willing

30:01

to sit down at the table and showcase

30:03

our culture . We are

30:05

not what they portrayed us to be . We

30:09

are not the slums . We

30:11

invented peanut butter

30:13

. Stop playing , and we've

30:15

got to show you guys . We've got to do peanut

30:17

butter all over again . So

30:19

I don't have the time to

30:21

listen to the negative . Like you know , with people

30:24

around me , like friends and family . Oh look

30:26

, if you want to listen , you don't run a business

30:28

. Don't tell me I don't run a business . You don't even own

30:30

a business . What do you own out of the farm ? I don't tell you how to

30:32

catch a train in the morning . Stop

30:34

, i'm driving

30:37

with blindness . If I f**k up , f**k it

30:39

up . But everybody

30:41

knows I wake up every morning and do

30:43

it . I do 16

30:45

to 12 hours daily , doesn't matter

30:47

if I'm at home with the business or I'm

30:49

at home with the responding to email , doing

30:52

this interview or anything . I'm driving

30:54

my business every hour . I get

30:56

a chance to . That's what

30:58

we lack of in our community . We got two goddamn

31:00

comfortable in America . We

31:02

need to start getting so comfortable . This is not our country

31:05

. We're going to take the money in

31:07

this country and take it back

31:09

to our island and celebrate . I

31:11

always tell people I come to America with a suitcase full of clothes

31:13

. I'm leaving America with

31:15

a suitcase full of money . Nobody's

31:17

going to stop .

31:19

I mean , that's a great way to even end this conversation

31:21

. So what would you tell

31:23

anyone listening if

31:25

they come to the restaurant and

31:28

they want to try something And I know

31:30

this is hard because all the dishes are

31:32

your babies But if they would

31:34

come to Zami , right

31:36

, if they come there , if I come there , what's

31:38

the one dish you would recommend that ? I

31:40

definitely carry on . You have to try it

31:43

.

31:43

You know , past three weeks , because I've been asked this question so

31:45

many times . I learn how to answer it now , because

31:47

most chefs never learn how to answer this

31:49

question . So , as a black person , have

31:51

you ever had Haitian food before ?

31:53

I have , yes , i've been to Haiti .

31:55

So , basically , if you've been to Haiti , you had Haitian

31:57

food before . Let's stay away from the typical

31:59

north .

32:00

Yes , the picuris and the Yeah

32:02

.

32:03

The gruyo , the cabbages ? Let's stay away

32:05

from it . Now I got some good octopus

32:07

on the menu with some good potato

32:09

bedding with oil crying there with a quill sauce

32:11

. How about you try that ? I

32:13

got a nice duck to die for . I tell

32:15

anybody I can put my duck against any

32:17

duck in Brooklyn . Maybe in New York you

32:20

could try the duck . You know we got ducks

32:22

in the island . We love duck , but mine is like

32:24

greasy , fatty . You got to strip the fat

32:26

off . We drain the fat

32:28

from the duck , then we make the duck , because

32:31

you know we're from the island . Unless we're

32:33

eating fat , we're eating fat . If we're not eating fat , we want

32:35

to taste it . So if not , you

32:37

could do the soft-shelled crab . You

32:40

could do something else . Oh , i got a quill

32:42

muscle with a spicy pepper

32:44

sauce on it . You could do the muscles . But

32:47

you know , in that we're from the islands , we

32:49

eat all types of seafood . To begin with , anyway

32:51

, i love my shrimp . There

32:55

you go . You could do the quill shrimp's camping

32:57

. Ooh , you see

32:59

what I'm saying . There's something on the menu

33:01

for almost everyone . I did

33:03

not create this menu and act like oh

33:05

, we're going to do the same 10

33:07

items that's in every to-go spots

33:10

in Brooklyn . We got sandwiches , we got vegan

33:12

options , we got everything . So we want the

33:14

world to walk in and try

33:16

our food . So if I'm trying to cater to the world

33:18

, i need to cater to everybody . I

33:21

cannot be stuck , like you know . Okay , we're going to do

33:23

traditional way and just stuck with it , and

33:25

that's it . And that's why most

33:27

Haitian restaurants fail You in America

33:30

. You're not in it . You cannot stick to the traditional way . You

33:32

got to give the rest of the world that never had your food . So

33:36

we got a sandwich called the Milo sandwich . It's

33:38

marinated in jerk . That's a chicken

33:40

breast tie marinated in jerk . Then

33:43

we grill it , we put it on sandwiches

33:45

some pickled peppers and onions , lettuce , tomato

33:47

and some nice creole creamy sauce

33:49

, aioli . So people are

33:52

going to eat that with some seasoned fries . So we never

33:54

had Haitian food and try to play it safe

33:56

. So we got to slowly

33:58

introducing them . So next time they had the

34:00

restaurant , like yo , we had the sandwich . Man , i'm going to try to grill

34:02

. So that's the newbies . But

34:05

for somebody like you , be the Haiti , let's

34:08

go outside of the box right now . Let's start

34:10

calling somewhere else .

34:12

I love it . I love it . I'm

34:14

so excited . All right , so why don't you tell

34:16

everyone where they could find you and

34:18

follow you on the internet ? and then

34:21

I'll also make sure I put the links to the

34:23

restaurants . And I

34:25

want to try everything . It's like summer's coming Foodie

34:27

time . We're going on a food crawl

34:29

. I really feel so excited about the food

34:31

. I want to try everything . So tell me where

34:33

they could find you .

34:35

Best thing about like , in other words , zami . Zami means

34:37

friends in Creole And in French

34:39

, so Zami means friends . So

34:42

if you type you Google Z

34:44

A N , m , i , zami , first

34:47

thing that will come up is my restaurant

34:49

. We managed to get to the top

34:52

of the word Zami . So when people are talking about

34:54

Zami , they're not talking about friends , no more , they're talking

34:56

about my restaurant now . So

34:58

it's so easy to find that stuff .

35:00

Look at the synergy . It means friends , you're

35:02

on . Carry on friends , we friends Yes

35:05

.

35:05

Yes , definitely . So

35:07

when you type Zami NYC , that come , that's straight to our website . And

35:10

if you go to our website it's going to link you up

35:12

to the other restaurants . So the word friends

35:14

, you just have Zami in

35:17

Creole . Oh , you can type friends

35:19

in Creole to Google . That will show you Zami

35:21

. So we managed to get to

35:23

the top of the algorithm to be more like searchable

35:25

. So it's that easy .

35:28

That is also a good lesson about

35:31

marketing , seo , all of that amazing stuff

35:33

that happens when you're

35:35

running a business and how hard it is

35:37

and how long it takes just to

35:39

get that top ranking . So congrats

35:41

to you and the team for making that

35:44

And I am just

35:46

really proud and excited . Love this

35:48

conversation . I don't get to talk about food a

35:50

lot . I love food And so

35:52

you coming on this podcast to just

35:54

, you know , talk about or cuisine

35:56

in a way that's exciting And , like you

35:58

said , like you know , normally

36:00

we get excited about food . When I go

36:03

to Jamaica , i don't go to Jamaica to

36:05

the beach , i go to Jamaica just for the food

36:07

.

36:08

I'll tell you , i went to Jamaica for the first time last

36:10

year , a month ago today . That's

36:12

where I'm from , really . You

36:14

from Mobile .

36:15

Yes , i'm from Mobile And I

36:17

um . So unfortunately , last year I

36:19

went because my my father , passed away and

36:21

my family , thank you

36:24

my grand uncles . They were known

36:26

fishermen And so every Saturday

36:28

morning , when I used to go and visit my dad

36:30

, a lot of people came and

36:33

they would want that fresh fish out of the

36:35

water , the marlin , everything . I

36:37

was just so used to that lifestyle

36:39

and just you know so my cousins made

36:41

me lobster and they did

36:44

um scallops and all

36:46

of these things And I was just like fruits

36:48

from the sea . Yes , yes , yes

36:50

, oh my God , yes , so you went to Mobile and

36:52

I mean , i love food . That's all I

36:54

do when I go home . I want to go to this place

36:56

, that place , it's so I'm

36:59

, i'm so excited . I I love this conversation

37:01

. Wesley , thank you so much for being

37:03

on the podcast and bringing me some food

37:05

joy .

37:07

Yes , yes , yes .

37:09

And , as I love to say at the end

37:11

of every episode walk good .