0:03

On the truth culture life at catholic spirit radio i

0:06

am royce hood it is so great to be with you this weekend and yeah

0:09

we've got two awesome guests this was not planned it was totally sort of i guess

0:16

you could say providential because we have two guests who were involved in some

0:21

way or another with the naples summit that we did last month i guess was it

0:25

i don't even remember when it was. It seemed like yesterday.

0:28

So we have Jean Marie joining us, Jean Davis, right?

0:32

You're confusing me with the name on there. And then we have Cindy Howard.

0:36

Now, both of these two ladies, they've never met each other.

0:41

And I'm going to give some background on this.

0:44

Cindy was supposed to have a booth at the Naples Summit.

0:48

She is an artist, I will say, a designer, and has a beautiful website,

0:54

which I'll let her tell you about. And so she was going to have some jewelry and different things displayed at

0:58

the Naples summit and she was not able to attend, but she did send us a beautiful necklace.

1:05

And we came up with the idea that we would give it away to somebody worthy.

1:09

And again, through some prayer during the summit, I felt like,

1:13

who am I going to give this to? And I gave it to Jean who's on the program today.

1:18

And so although you two ladies have never met each other. Cindy,

1:21

your necklace went to Jean. Amen. I am so thrilled about that. It's wonderful to virtually meet you, Jean.

1:31

Thank you. It's an honor to meet you as well, Cindy.

1:36

So Jean's background, for those of you who don't know, she is an author and

1:42

she's a survivor of trafficking.

1:44

She runs a pregnancy center now. She had this conversion moment in her life

1:49

where she was really saved by Christ.

1:52

She has an absolutely awesome son who has a great throwing arm.

1:57

I know that because I threw some footballs to him in Naples and he was playing

2:01

with my two, two of my boys. So Jean, welcome. And Cindy, welcome to the program, both of you. So here's what we'll do.

2:06

We were on a few 17 minute segments. I will ask you to just introduce yourselves.

2:12

Why don't we start with Jean? Introduce yourself. Give us a little little bit of your background.

2:17

I will interrupt you when we hit our commercial break and then we'll come back

2:20

in and then we'll get to you as well, Cindy, and we'll have some dialogue and

2:23

just have a good time on this program today. Awesome. All right. So Gene, tell us a little bit about your background.

2:30

Introduce yourself to our listeners who may have never heard your story before. Okay.

2:34

Wow. So my name is Jean Marie Davis and I was in prostitution or as the world

2:43

will say it now, sex trafficking from the age of two to age of 29.

2:48

I was groomed and trained from the age of two to the age of 18.

2:55

And then at the age of 18, I walked into sex trafficking because I was homeless

3:01

and I I needed a place to live and I needed money.

3:04

So that was my option that was presented to me.

3:07

And so from the age of 18 to the age of 29, I ran around the United States.

3:14

I was born and raised in the United States, in the West Coast,

3:17

and I lived in 33 different states with almost two dozen different pimps I dealt with.

3:24

And then at the age of 29, after being threatened to have my son killed and

3:30

me killed, I ran for my life.

3:32

And I ended up in New Hampshire with a woman named Phyllis Phelps,

3:37

who told me about my son and said, well, let's hear the heartbeat because I

3:42

wanted to abort my child at the time because I was just scared that they were going to come after us.

3:47

And so she let me hear the heartbeat.

3:50

I said, okay, I'll keep my child. Now what?

3:53

And she got me into a program where, because I I challenged her.

3:58

She opened a home called House of Hope, New Hampshire, and she now runs a program

4:03

that is women that were in the same situation I was in.

4:07

And then I worked with her. And then eight years later, she handed me an application

4:11

to be the executive director at Branches Permanente Resource Center in Vermont.

4:16

And so for the last two years, I have been fighting for.

4:23

The freedom to share the gospel and

4:26

help women and men and families and their children and just fighting with just

4:33

being open and just trying to give people the perspective of there is hope and

4:40

that we at the Pregnancy Center don't stop helping you once you have the baby.

4:45

Because Phyllis didn't stop helping me after I had my son Jonah.

4:49

And now she continued to where she helped me get into the position I'm in.

4:53

And so that's a quick blip of who I am.

4:58

I mean, it's beautiful. Who you are is absolutely beautiful, Jean.

5:02

The first time I heard you is at the March for Life, I think Capitol Hill 101,

5:06

right before my summit that was there. And we got to meet right afterwards. words.

5:10

And I recognized the moment I heard you, that God is using you.

5:19

He's making, you know, he's turning the tragedy and the difficulties and the

5:26

struggles that you experienced in your life,

5:29

those horrors that some of us, most of us just can't even begin to imagine. We can hear it.

5:38

We We've seen pictures, we've seen maybe some movies.

5:42

But we've never, we can't even fathom what you've gone through.

5:45

And yet here you are, a joyful, incredible woman of faith who's got an amazingly awesome son.

5:53

Who, by the way, I think, I don't know where he's going in his life,

5:56

but just judging from the time I've spent with him, you're doing an amazing

6:01

job. And he's going to take care of you one day. That's my guess.

6:04

But God is using you. And he's just beginning to use you. I told you already, your book is The Tip

6:11

of the Iceberg. I know you have so much more to share.

6:14

And that book provides some just riveting details on your experiences.

6:19

Tell us about the book. Where can people buy it? So the book is called Breaking

6:23

Chains Against All Odds.

6:25

And you can purchase it at Amazon.

6:29

It is just a brief view of my life in a two-year span. So I literally condensed

6:36

and focused on just two years of what my life was like in human trafficking.

6:43

And through that, I actually speak and show how I walked in to becoming the

6:49

director and what walking by faith looks like with Jesus and how to be an overcomer.

6:55

And that's what we do at the center. As I teach these women how to stop surviving

7:00

and actually be overcomers. And I'm trying to break that narrative with other

7:05

women who call themselves survivors.

7:07

I'm trying to get them to say, okay, don't live in a survivor mode.

7:11

Let's actually overcome and be joyful and know who our joy comes from.

7:16

Yeah, I mean, who our joy comes from. I think about that. That's powerful.

7:21

And that's so simple. Yeah, like I said, I've got the book. I think I've told

7:26

you this multiple times and we've had conversations.

7:29

Hopefully it'll be a movie one day. And I'm guessing that's just the starting point of it.

7:33

I wanted to have you on this show, Gene, when we were last talking, because I want to start.

7:38

First of all, I love anytime we talk, I always get off that call feeling like I'm not doing enough.

7:44

And not because you are pressuring me, but because I hear you.

7:51

And the work, the mission that God has placed on your heart to rescue women,

7:56

to help moms, to help babies.

7:59

And there are so many women out there in our communities that we don't even recognize.

8:03

When we were in Naples, coincidentally, before I met you, I attended a screening

8:09

and they They had Jim Caviezel from the Sound of Freedom movie.

8:14

And we had a gentleman that has safe houses that sponsored the event.

8:19

He wasn't at our Naples Summit, unfortunately, but he and his group,

8:23

it's through a church organization. They've developed like three or four homes in and around the Naples area that

8:32

are safe houses that women can go to that need to escape.

8:35

And they're not listed. You're not going to see a website.

8:38

They're like super private. it.

8:40

And it's, it's incredible because even in a place like Naples,

8:43

Florida, this just opulence and wealth.

8:47

It's there. The trafficking is there. But that's the reason why,

8:51

because of what you just said. It's like the opulence and the wealth.

8:54

Yeah. That's why. It's unbelievable. But then even in Immokalee,

8:58

Immokalee is 40 miles east of Naples, one of the poorest demographics in the

9:05

United States next to one of the richest. And I know that there's been big stings and multiple arrests and traffickers

9:13

and rescues in that little town. It's largely a migrant town,

9:16

people, women coming in from South America being promised work.

9:19

And then I know there was one horrific case back when I was in law school back

9:23

in 2009 to 2012, where somehow a woman dug her way out of a shed,

9:29

was able to crawl out because she was so thin and malnourished.

9:33

She was able to get out through just inches of space and run down a farm road

9:37

in the middle of nowhere and was rescued by a trucker.

9:41

And she led police back to that shed where there was something like a dozen

9:44

women just being held with no air conditioning, no lights in a shed. Yeah.

9:49

And this is in Naples, in the backyard of Naples, Florida. Yeah.

9:54

I used to live in Naples. Yeah. The thing that people don't understand is where

10:00

the money's at, women will go.

10:02

But as I've told people, even police officers, they'll go to a place like a

10:07

low-incoming area where they would at least expect to look at. and search and to find.

10:14

So they'll bring them to where the money is, but they will have them house where

10:21

it's poor and out there to show everybody.

10:28

And so it's very much the opposite. That's why I try to tell people,

10:32

everybody goes to hotspots or Atlanta, Vegas.

10:35

That's not where they get the women. It's towns like Rattleboro or the most

10:40

remote areas is where they get the women and then they bring them to where the money is.

10:44

Yeah, or just a little girl walking down the street and she gets snatched.

10:49

And that's that, right? Let me ask you this, Gene.

10:53

And Cindy, I want to get you in here in a minute too, because I promise you

10:57

we're going to lighten the topic at some point.

10:59

But I want to stay with this topic because it's one that I care about.

11:04

I mean, and do you know, Gene, I mean, obviously from the age of two,

11:08

I don't even know if we want to go there right now.

11:10

It's just horrific for me to even try to understand what that means.

11:14

But what in your experience in the work that you do and helping other women,

11:18

I mean, what percentage of girls are just kidnapped, grabbed.

11:23

And thrown into a van? Or is it more, hey, come to a party?

11:27

It's more of, hey, come to a party. So we have to understand,

11:30

and this is where the narratives need to start being shifted and really help

11:35

the world to understand. So the kidnapping, snatching, and getting deported over and things like that,

11:43

yes, that happens, but not as much as people think.

11:48

So, for instance, I went to our high school down here in Brattleboro and I told

11:52

them, I said, girls who go to birthday parties, go to friends parties,

11:57

they're most likely going to be picked up for human trafficking because there's

12:02

going to be a boy there or their boyfriend knows somebody and they go, hey, let's go to a party.

12:06

And next thing you know you're in a situation that is

12:10

the normal trend not only that but

12:13

majority of women who and and

12:17

men because this there's more there's a higher amount

12:20

of men than most people think that are in sex trafficking but they both majority

12:26

of time is because they have been raped or molested when they were young and

12:30

a lot of times that is why they go into that lifestyle style because it is a

12:35

familiar thing because they're looking to avoid that pain.

12:40

So it's more of like I tell everybody I walked into it.

12:44

So it's more of that way. My boyfriend brings me or my girlfriend brings whatever.

12:51

And now here we are. Now this is presented to us.

12:54

And majority of the time is presented by, Hey, I can make you a lot of money

12:59

or, Hey, don't you want to ride this kind of car.

13:01

Hey, do you want to dress in these type of clothes?

13:04

You know, in my time when I was involved, it was, you know, BCB and Gucci and

13:10

Prada and things like that. And one, two, oh, you can get your hair. You can look nice. I could take you places.

13:16

That's the grooming. That's the hook, line, sink.

13:19

And that's what most people don't understand that that's what's happening.

13:23

We're not even going to go into the cyber and getting people caught up into

13:27

human trafficking came through the cyber sets and, you know,

13:30

wanting to buy it, go to a job, you know, interview and they get taken that way and stuff and say,

13:37

Hey, I have a gun and now you're coming with me. Like that's usually how it works.

13:42

Yeah. So, so Jean, you, you were, you know, you were your life,

13:46

your, your circumstances are not probably that uncommon from other girls.

13:52

And, but I want to go, I want to go back a little bit. Cause you say from age two.

13:56

So I mean I'm guessing you were molested or something

13:59

at age two is that is that accurate yeah and then

14:03

so that cycle of of hurt

14:06

just continued okay can you I mean tell us a

14:08

little bit about your journey and how I go and you you've already summarized

14:11

where you're at today we're almost out of time actually for this segment so

14:14

maybe what we'll do is we'll jump into a commercial break we'll leave our listeners

14:18

hanging for just a moment and when we come back we're going to talk some more

14:22

with Jean Marie Davis and we're also going to talk to Cindy Howard empowered

14:24

about her beautiful creations as well. So we're going to hear about Jean's, some of her tragic story,

14:30

but how she's triumphed over that as well. So stay with us. We'll be right back.

14:35

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17:09

All right welcome back to truth culture life and these

17:12

two ladies uh cindy and gene were

17:15

just going off the rockers during our break and i had to stop them because i'm

17:19

like wait a minute i don't want to get in trouble on the air but at the same

17:22

time i feel like this is an important subject matter we were talking about what

17:28

the appropriate punishment should be for a man that that, you know,

17:32

rapes or harms a young lady. I don't, and Cindy's saying, no, we're not going there. So it all depends.

17:39

And understand that it's not just men, it's women as well, right?

17:44

So, and I say that because the difference with my story, and I have to tell

17:49

people that my story is unique and it's not like everyone else.

17:52

So not only was I prostituted by pimps, but I myself was a pimp.

17:58

And I myself had women working for me.

18:02

And so I was considered a madam and then I

18:05

was a renegade so I did the whole gamut but

18:08

When I met jesus and and he was working on me to forgive some of my family members

18:14

On the things that they did and molesting me and things like that He put on

18:19

my heart and he says how dare you not forgive the ones who have done things

18:24

to you for you have sinned yourself selves.

18:27

And that right there was like, Ooh, okay, Lord.

18:32

Like at the end of the day. And then I don't, I say that to let people know,

18:36

I am not, I don't, in my heart, the Lord worked on me.

18:40

I am not to process, you know, to prostitute and take these men to,

18:46

to court or anything like that. One, because I don't know their real names because I dealt with their street

18:52

names. And two, it just, Just that's not where the Lord wants me to have it.

18:55

Now, that being said, if a woman feels like to, you know, quit the man that

19:00

did this to her in jail, by all means.

19:03

But a lot of my pimps that I went through, they, I remember one of my pimps,

19:08

he would beat me up, pull me by my hair, dragging me out of the hotel naked

19:12

and screaming at me and everything because I didn't get enough money for his dope.

19:17

And then the next, next day he comes to me talking about, I'm so sorry.

19:21

I love you. But my mom used to get beat So that's what I'm used to.

19:25

And so it's like, okay, you have pain.

19:28

And the only person that can heal your pain is Jesus. I can't do it.

19:32

You going to jail ain't going to help. It actually makes the pimps even more matter and gives a lot of women in the

19:38

more vulnerable situation to

19:41

they getting beaten and things like that because their pimps are in jail.

19:44

Because once they get out, now they're looking for them because they put them in jail.

19:48

So it becomes a very dangerous situation.

19:51

So that's where it becomes, what do you do? How do you handle that situation?

19:58

That's very much, you got to look to Jesus.

20:01

You got to look to Jesus and he will guide you and lead you on what to do.

20:06

You know, your story, I've told you this before, it's different,

20:09

obviously, but I think about the forgiveness a little bit.

20:14

And I think about Immaculate, who I've talked to you about before,

20:16

Immaculate Ilibadjiza for our listeners, who's a Rwanda genocide survivor.

20:20

And the reason why I want to bring her up is like almost all of her family was

20:25

macheted to death by her neighbors, by people in her community that they grew

20:29

up with because they were part of the wrong tribe.

20:32

What's really crazy, I don't want to get too off topic, but right now in this

20:35

country, I've studied Rwanda and the genocide and the things that happened leading up to that genocide.

20:42

And the people in that country were basically compartmentalized into two quote unquote tribes.

20:49

To political parties, if you can, the Hutus and the Tutsis.

20:53

And it was arbitrary. Like, hey, you've got a big nose. You're going to be in

20:56

this one. You own a goat. You're going to be in that one. It was insane.

20:59

And it wasn't a system that the Rwandans created. It was created by the Dutch

21:03

when they colonized Rwanda, right? So it was a system that was put on them.

21:07

And I see a lot of that now going on politics, you know, people demonizing each

21:11

other and so forth. It's dangerous. But anyway, so her family was macheted.

21:15

Her brother survives because he's in college in Europe.

21:18

And a few years later, after she survives, she's visiting Rwanda and she visits

21:24

the prison where one of her neighbors, who I think macheted her dad, was.

21:29

And he was chained up and the guards brought her in and she was with a little film crew.

21:34

They were filming and the guard opened the door to the to the cell.

21:39

The man is chained and the guard turns around, like, in other words,

21:42

turns away, do whatever you want to him. Kick him, spit him, hit him. I'm not looking. You can do whatever you want.

21:49

And you know what she did? Do any of you know?

21:52

I bet she prayed for him. She hugged him. Yeah. She cried and she forgave him. Yeah.

21:59

And he cried. Yeah. And he said, sorry.

22:03

Whoa. Like, if that were me, I don't know that I would have had that saint moment that she had.

22:12

That was a saint moment. moment but that's that's the love of jesus working

22:15

through us right and that's what gene is talking about yeah and that's hard

22:19

to do when you're dealing with animals yeah that's the mercy.

22:23

That's the mercy you know and one thing

22:26

immaculate always says i i've said this before too when babies

22:30

are born they don't know hate they

22:33

don't know it they don't understand it all they know is love

22:36

all they want is love yep children are taught

22:39

hate they're taught filth they're taught evil because

22:43

of the environment that they're in because of the adults in

22:46

their life and our culture and everything else so wow gene

22:49

your story is incredible plug the book for us again amazon and

22:53

yeah i would encourage everybody to get it breaking

22:56

chains yeah did i say it

22:59

right i don't have it usually breaking chains against all

23:02

odds amen i think that's what it really

23:05

is it began lots right it's not

23:08

chains are deep you know

23:11

i tell people you just because i went through being trafficked

23:14

doesn't mean that people haven't gone through horrific things and

23:17

stuff you know you you deal with it but like you said at the age of two right

23:21

so i was around parties sex parties all my life right so that it was normal

23:28

my life it was normal right so at the age of two sitting on men's laps at football parties,

23:36

basketball parties at the age of four.

23:38

Drinking beer at the age of six, smoking cigarettes by the age of 12,

23:43

doing LSD, shrooms, acid.

23:45

And then being around at the age of seven, being inside bars while people are

23:53

babysitting and watching me, being dropped off at different houses.

23:57

That was the normal lifestyle.

24:00

So if you were to come and tell me that that wasn't normal at that time,

24:05

I will look at you like you were crazy because that's all I grew up with.

24:09

That's what you knew. Right. Unbelievable. It's heart-wrenching. And to think that, I mean,

24:15

this is going on now. This is in our communities.

24:17

This is right. And it's sad. It's like a pandemic of people just,

24:22

I don't know, it's a pandemic of broken hearts. We have just a cultural issue in this country that we need to get back to what

24:29

matters. Like Christ at the center, you know,

24:32

And if you have Christ in the center, then the family comes up around that.

24:37

And then if you have Christ in the center and the family around that,

24:40

then you have children that are being raised with good values and direction.

24:45

And like, you look at this stuff going on and it's clear.

24:50

There's like, first I tweeted something out today. Cause there's a boy from

24:54

Columbia talking about how he doesn't mind if Jews get killed or if these people

25:01

die or those people die, it's not going to bother him.

25:03

And I'm thinking like, first we removed God, then we removed fathers and we

25:09

wonder, and then we remove spankings at some point and wonder why all these kids are so nuts.

25:15

Well, you know, I feel bad for the young man who said that he wouldn't mind

25:21

if the Jews die. People don't understand.

25:24

In the scriptures, God said to Abraham, him, those that bless your nation will

25:31

be blessed and those that curse your nation will be cursed.

25:34

So anyone that comes against the Jews is coming against what God said he would do for his people.

25:42

So as I tell everybody, my pastor is a Messianic Jew.

25:46

I am proud to have a pastor that's a Messianic Jew. He wears his homic,

25:51

he wears his prayer shawl. I am so proud to be a part of his

25:56

church because there's nothing more better than to support the people of God

26:02

and to know that we as Gentiles were grafted into that culture of life and was privileged to do that.

26:10

God did not have to do that, but that was a privilege.

26:13

And so we just, don't get me started. I could go off. No, I love it.

26:16

I mean, I think it's interesting in Messianic Jew, they believe in Jesus.

26:21

Yes. That's why they were called a Messianic Jew. Yeah, that's great. It's fascinating.

26:27

Look, I deal with this subject matter a lot, and increasingly on X we see it more,

26:35

Bottom line is, I just don't even want to go there with the whole college campuses

26:39

thing. I'll just say one thing. You know, the riots, civil unrest across the country during an election year.

26:48

What a coincidence. Oh, yeah. Right. Anybody else connecting those dots? And it's interesting.

26:54

If you go back, I don't want to get too down the rabbit's hole.

26:57

But our own country destabilized other countries through clandestine operations.

27:04

There's textbooks about this like we did it to cuba we

27:06

did it to the soviet union we did it over in europe

27:09

during the arab spring like we get in there and we

27:12

destabilize we create factions and they destabilize civil.

27:16

Unrest and that has a reaction influencing the

27:20

politics in that nation and it's interesting that that

27:23

happens in our country now since the last you know

27:26

since 2020 we saw it we're seeing it now in our during our

27:29

election cycles it's almost like okay boom there's like

27:31

some crazy disease and then there's there's all

27:34

the riots and everything else i don't know

27:37

i don't know if i'm a conspiracy nut or not again i don't

27:40

want to go too far down that rabbit hole be off topic one other

27:43

thing i'll just say i'm going to get back on topic gene you said the word

27:46

chains chains are physical but they're

27:49

also spiritual and emotional right so

27:53

this is the this is the thing right there's a saying that if you

27:57

what you speak to someone right words may oh i

28:00

forget it's an old saying that fiction students may break

28:03

my never hurt me right but in

28:07

all honesty people don't understand i'd rather

28:10

you punch me and me get bruised and break a bone physically break a bone than

28:16

for you to cut me like i was called a pig by my own father and all these degrading

28:24

things from my own father that has carried for years.

28:31

That's the difference. I think that's what people need to understand.

28:35

And that's where the overcomer, me being an overcomer and a survivor,

28:40

a survivor can come out of that lifestyle, but still have the mentality because

28:45

the words that were played to her saying that you can't survive,

28:48

you can't live without me. Nobody's going to love you. Nobody's going to care about you.

28:52

You won't be able to manage your own money. You don't know how to make your own money.

28:57

There's so many things mentally that people, and that's really what the chains,

29:02

the breaking chains, I actually mean by that, is you literally,

29:06

when you read my book, you literally see how.

29:09

The mental chains fell off to where I'm like, you know what?

29:14

What, I'm not where I'm at, where I want to be, but you know,

29:18

God has graced me to be where I'm at today.

29:20

And I tell everybody that I'm not the same woman that I was 10 years ago,

29:25

you know, through the woman I am today.

29:28

Like you constantly are changing, but the word of God, that's where people don't

29:34

understand what the Bible is all about. The word of God changes your life if you allow it to, because Romans 12,

29:42

2 says, by the renewing of your mind, transforming, like it's the renewing.

29:48

You read his word every day and it renews you.

29:52

Like I just read the book of Joel last night and I was reading it and it said

29:57

that what the locust has and what the kink of worms did, you will be restored.

30:03

But then I was like, I read chapter one because everybody Everybody quotes that

30:07

about how you restore what the locust has eaten.

30:10

But then I was like, oh, I forgot what the locust was eating up.

30:14

I forgot. He says that. And I go, oh, that's what we're going through right now.

30:19

And it's like, has people really read Joel? Because Joel is what we're living

30:23

with in today's life because the scripture says there's nothing new under the sun.

30:28

It's just packed. I tell everybody the email is packaged differently.

30:33

It's the same evil, but it has a different bow on it.

30:37

So then it stood there and you go, okay. And that's where you,

30:40

you realize, listen, I'm not that person because Jesus says by the,

30:44

by the word of the, by the blood of the lamb and the word of your testimony, right?

30:49

You will be set free. I just, the other Monday, I picked up a woman on the side of the road.

30:54

I had some people mad at me because they're like, Jean, you can't do that.

30:57

Pick the woman up on the side of the road. She was, she looked at me. I was telling her how I used to be a prostitute, all this stuff.

31:04

And she needed a hitch ride to the city of Brown and Rowan. So I'm looking at

31:08

her and she goes, I have never met a girl.

31:10

I said, what? That actually got out of prostitution.

31:13

And she looked at me. She's like, yeah.

31:16

I said, you know, prostitution doesn't just mean laying on your back for money.

31:21

It also means laying on your back for drugs.

31:24

And she got real quiet and she looked at me and she started to cry.

31:28

And I said, it's okay. I said, she goes, how did you get out of it?

31:31

And I told her about Jesus. I shared my testimony.

31:34

I'm driving, talking to her and I pull up right in front of her where she lives

31:39

at. And I said, can I pray for you? I love you.

31:42

And she looked at me and out that very moment, the Holy spirit spoke to me and said, she wants Christ.

31:48

And I looked at her, I said, do you want to accept Jesus into your heart?

31:51

And she goes, yes, I do. And right there in my car, I witnessed,

31:55

I shared the gospel, did the salvation message with her. She's crying.

31:59

The minute I said to her, Lord, forgive me of my sins, she broke down and cried.

32:05

And she just wept. And you could just feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in

32:09

the car. And all of a sudden, she accepted Jesus.

32:12

And then I said, well, let me bring you to the pastor, to one of the pastors

32:16

that supports our ministry at Branches.

32:19

I brought him to the church.

32:22

I'm banging on the door. I didn't even know. I was praying that he was there.

32:25

I was banging on the door. He comes up. And I said, pastor, I said, can you pray with her?

32:29

I just shared the gospel. She just gave her life to the Lord.

32:33

Can you pray with her again? We pray. but I just want you to meet her and pray with her. And he did.

32:37

And when we left, she just hugged me and she said, thank you so much. You understand me.

32:43

You know, that's the beauty of it. It's when you can recognize what you used

32:49

to be and then go back and tell women,

32:53

that's when you become a true overcomer and say, Hey, and snatch her and say,

32:58

come on, come on this side. If I can do it, you can do it too. The scriptures literally say that what he

33:04

does for one, he does for another, he's no respecter.

33:08

It's so beautiful. And so if even yesterday, a woman came in here and to our

33:13

center, cause we have a human trafficking and domestic violence program, support program.

33:18

And she came and I sat down with her and we just started talking.

33:22

And she then says to me, she goes, I looked at her and I, she was like,

33:27

Jean, I don't know how how to say this. And I said, I said, you from either when you were a preteen or a young child,

33:36

your innocence was stolen. That's all I said to her. And she just broke down and cried.

33:41

And she says, I was raped from the age of nine to the age of 12 by my cousin.

33:47

And I said, yeah, why? That's where, that's when you, when you see,

33:52

when you see brokenness like that, And then you get to be able to share Jesus

33:57

and you get to see the light come into theirs.

33:59

And then she looked at me and she goes, I want what you have.

34:03

When you get that, then you know you doing something like there's excitement.

34:08

They're like, okay, we're, we're reaching the heart, the lost.

34:14

Jesus said, if you, what they, if you do it to them, you've done it to me.

34:17

If you love them the way if you love them those ones that are without the fatherless the widows,

34:26

those women who have been raped molested beaten and

34:30

in in trafficking even even the boys they

34:33

are fatherless they are orphans how

34:37

do you treat them is how you would treat how

34:40

god looks at you treating him okay i'm done i'll

34:43

get off no that was i didn't want to interrupt you i i

34:46

let's do do this cindy i we're going to jump into one more commercial break

34:50

when we come back we're going to come in immediately with vitae art because

34:54

i want to connect the dots here and cindy we want to hear your story and also

34:59

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Music.

37:31

Culture Life. I am Royce Hood. You've been listening to Jean Marie Davis,

37:35

survivor of trafficking and an author of just an incredible new book.

37:39

And we've been hearing all about her story. And we also have very special guest,

37:42

Cindy Howard, who is the founder of Vita Art.

37:47

And like I said at the top of the hour, the intersection here is really fascinating.

37:52

It was accidental, providential. Cindy created the silver Vita pendant that we gave to Jean during the Naples Summit.

38:01

And this is, for anybody that is curious, you go to vitaart.org,

38:06

that's V-I-T-A-A-R-T.org, and you can see the pendant.

38:12

Now, when I saw this, what I actually saw was a baby in the womb,

38:16

but it's also a teardrop, and it's just absolutely beautiful.

38:21

Cindy, welcome to the program again. You've been on the entire time,

38:24

but tell us a little bit about yourself and about your work with Vita Art.

38:28

I want to first connect with Jane Marie and say thank you for your story.

38:34

Thank you for accepting Christ into your life, for living connected to the vine,

38:39

for using your voice, for being out there. I love it.

38:42

Amen. And I am so touched that the pendant that I designed was given to you.

38:48

You are a wonderful person, example, to be able to share life. You speak for life.

38:56

You do what the Vita pendant was meant to do.

38:59

And I have a story of redemption, too, hidden somewhere.

39:05

More emotional. And I too am an overcomer. And that segues into my story. How did this begin?

39:12

I had no clue that God was bringing me down this road.

39:15

All I did was ask my husband for a bag of clay on Mother's Day.

39:20

That's it. And I think God was chuckling.

39:22

I got the bag of clay. I go to my little art studio in the corner of my garage.

39:27

I'm saying, God, thank you for the life that you have have given me the difference in my life.

39:32

And thank you for my art talent. I want to bring honor and glory to you. What can I make?

39:38

Immediately, I got this image of a wall plaque of a pre-born baby.

39:44

I fashioned it and realized this, this is Mother's Day. We are from the dust of the earth.

39:51

Where do we get clay from? And then God gives me this vision of a pre-born baby

39:56

be in a wall plaque. And I'm like, so I made it.

40:00

Friends and family loved it. They said, Cindy, you've got to turn this into jewelry.

40:05

Well, I tend to be kind of honest with God. And I say, God, I just don't have time.

40:10

And I have this to do and this to do, this isn't going to, but it was very clear

40:14

I was supposed to do it. So I said, yes, yes, sir.

40:18

So I went to an adult Well, silversmithing class formed the first one.

40:24

I decided to investigate where I could have it made, and I found a place in Israel.

40:30

A friend of mine said, you need to bring the wall plaque with you.

40:37

I'm like, I can't do that. But then I thought I could bring pendant.

40:43

I was also learning about first fruits, giving the first paycheck that I have,

40:52

no strings attached, saying, God, this is yours, and I'm trusting you for the rest.

40:58

I heard this little voice and said, use that money to invest in the pendant.

41:04

And again, I said, God, I can't do that. We're paying for college, and this money is going for these private schools.

41:12

So our children can be taught of the Lord when they're going to school.

41:16

I said, if this is from you, then you talk to my husband. I'm not going to say a word.

41:21

So he said, what should we do about this first fruit? So a month later, I asked.

41:28

He said, Cindy, I've been thinking about it.

41:31

You need to take this first paycheck and invest in having this pendant made.

41:39

But it's not enough. I want you to double the amount.

41:43

So a pendant is made in Israel, and it is sterling silver.

41:48

And since it's been prayed over from the very beginning, God speaks through

41:52

it. Whether you have a conversation or not, God speaks through it.

41:55

And I have had amazing conversations, and so have so many people.

42:01

I just, I want to jump in Cindy on the website. I love that your intention was

42:06

to create a quality piece of jewelry that would be beautiful enough to bring

42:09

honor to and memorialize those lives that have been lost to us,

42:13

whether an unimaginable loss from stillbirth, infant loss, miscarriage,

42:16

or, or a regrettable choice. This beautiful customized necklace is set with a loved one.

42:22

Let me look at it is, and we've, we are our family, we've, we've lost three

42:27

little babies. and I know so many families go through that and women go through

42:31

that for whatever reason. So it's a beautiful thing. And I think it's exciting.

42:37

It's fun for me to be able to talk to somebody like you who's a creator and

42:41

had this sort of, you didn't set out to create anything, but then the Lord works

42:44

through mysterious ways. And what a coincidence that you're both on the show today. And we literally

42:50

gave it to Gene. Wow. Yes.

42:54

So, Cindy, you started to talk about it. you're also a survivor.

42:58

Is that anything you want to share? You don't feel like you have to. I can share briefly.

43:03

I was raised in home with a stepmother who made Cruella de Vil seem really nice in 101 Dalmatians.

43:16

And so there was a lot of emotional abuse, deep rejection, abandonment, et cetera.

43:24

When I was in high school, I said, God, if you really exist,

43:27

I went to a Catholic girls' boarding school. I said, if you really exist, show me.

43:31

I was thinking, well, what really happens after death? And my friends here,

43:36

they're onto something. I forgot about the prayer God never did. I went away to college.

43:43

I went to church that kept teaching scripture.

43:48

I had friends that would sit with me and say, well, what about this?

43:51

What about that? What about this? This doesn't make sense.

43:53

And they would come back and answer what God says about these things.

43:59

So it came to a point four years later, I can be a slow learner sometimes,

44:04

that I knew that giving my life to Christ was 100% commitment.

44:12

I was not just giving him my life, I was giving in my dreams,

44:16

my will, my hurts, my hopes, everything, and giving him total control of my life. And it was scary.

44:26

I'm like, okay, Jesus, I don't really understand you rose from the dead because I've never seen it.

44:32

Of course, I'm smarter than you, which is not true, but I'm going to take that on faith.

44:36

I don't understand that I'm a sinner, but you'll show me He did.

44:41

I don't understand how you could love me. And that's been a journey of my life.

44:45

So when I accepted Christ. With my arms wide open, he came in like a flood. I cried.

44:57

That wounded area was filled with his love. I could not contain it. I could not contain it.

45:05

I wanted to go around and tell everybody about the love of God.

45:10

I couldn't wait to get to church and to sing and to praise him.

45:15

And I called my dad and said, hey, dad, you're not number one anymore. more.

45:18

You thought I was a religious nut, but he ended up coming around and realized,

45:22

yes, this is real. This is true.

45:26

So I am, I am so grateful for the life that Christ has given me.

45:32

Yeah. That's, I mean, just so beautiful. And I could tell you're fighting the emotions.

45:36

I know, Cindy, that there is so many more details that you could share when the time is right.

45:42

Just like gene there's so much more to your to you to your stories than what

45:46

you're sharing now what you've shared gene in your book and when the time is

45:50

right i challenge you to think about sharing,

45:52

share those moments of darkness because there is somebody right now living it

45:57

and there is somebody right now who doesn't know that there is hope at the end

46:01

of the tunnel that there is a door out they don't know and they're living it

46:06

their life is filled with darkness and you two in different manners,

46:11

different forms, different ways have overcome things in your life.

46:16

We had a exorcist priest on this show a year ago. It was one of the most incredible

46:20

episodes I've ever done. He focuses on like deliverance prayers.

46:24

And he said something profound. He said, demons live in wound.

46:27

It's true. Yes, demons live in wounds. And when you were talking,

46:31

Cindy, about your wounds, how Jesus came in and filled up that void, right? St.

46:36

Augustine always talked about how his dad only valued hollow things,

46:39

Like only wanted hollow things for his life. Didn't value anything deeper, meaning just empty thing. Go ahead.

46:47

That is so true. And what I love about the Vita Pendant is that it sheds light

46:52

and gives voice to women whose wounds are deep.

46:57

I was gardening in my front yard.

47:00

A woman comes by wanting to sell me windows.

47:03

After I listened to her, I tell her about Vita. She sees the pendant.

47:07

She goes, oh, we need to speak about those precious babies.

47:11

I'm like, absolutely we do. And then I heard this little voice.

47:14

I said, yes, but we also have to speak to the women who have a hidden secret regret in their hearts.

47:23

And she looked at me, her eyes started to well up with water, and she bawled.

47:30

She just burst into tears. And we sat on my front bench and she poured out her

47:35

heart and the wounds came up and out into the light,

47:40

into love and able to tell her about healing ministries and tell her about the promises of Jesus.

47:48

And we've got to be able to especially speak to women in the church.

47:54

They're hiding. waiting, they need the avenue to be able to say,

47:58

yes, I have a regretted choice and to know that there is hope.

48:02

There is hope and healing. And I do believe that Jesus has put those babies

48:07

together and he is holding them. And they, the babies do not hold their mother's.

48:14

They're not angry at them. They have forgiveness and they are waiting for their

48:17

mothers to be joined with them in heaven. Jill Marquis, who works for Care Net, she wears a Vita pendant close to her

48:24

heart as a constant reminder of God's forgiveness and his healing grace and

48:29

that she will be united. I have a lot of stories I can tell.

48:33

You guys are making me sad. What?

48:38

I don't know. A lot of people They say that Like you know People say I'm so sorry What you

48:45

went through I hear that a lot I tell people I'm not I can tell Because you

48:49

have joy I can look at you You know Jesus.

48:52

And his redemption Right But I tell people I'm not sorry Because I went through

48:58

it So that I could save Another woman So that a woman Didn't have to go through What I went through,

49:02

I experienced everything I went through So that somebody else Wouldn't have

49:05

to do it Or if they are in it They could get out Quicker than I did Got it You

49:09

know, so at the end of the day, it's like, don't be sad, rejoice,

49:13

rejoice, because even I just said this yesterday when I was talking and stuff,

49:18

I just, the scripture says in James that we are to count it joy while we're

49:23

in trying to count it joy.

49:26

Joy and so rejoicing because yes

49:29

it's horrific yes it's nothing this is no

49:32

light stuff and everything a person goes through but at

49:35

the same time even for the church a lot of times

49:37

a lot and i've only been a christian for 10 years and i tell a lot of the reason

49:41

why the church is the way it is is because of the fact that everybody thinks

49:44

that nobody understands what they're going through and they hide and the problem

49:49

about it is they they don't really know who jesus is because if If they really

49:53

learned who Jesus Christ really is, then they would really understand.

49:56

He went through everything that we've gone through.

50:00

Abandonment. How about being on the cross when he is literally bleeding to death

50:06

and God turns his back on him and he says, why have you forsaken me, God?

50:12

You telling me a man like that don't know what we've gone through?

50:16

Like, there's so much that we can look at and see in crisis, like being beaten.

50:22

You know, people being looked at and shamed on and be ridiculed and all those things.

50:29

Having people lie on him.

50:33

And it's like almost every situation you go through.

50:37

That's why I love how the Lord had me write this book,

50:40

because I pulled out different women from the Bible and I related it with my

50:46

story because it's you can't you when you read a story, you have to understand

50:52

that those were real people with real emotions.

50:55

They weren't just characters in a book. This is live, real people.

51:01

This is historical. We don't look at George Washington as a character in a book.

51:06

We all know he was the first president, but yet people look at the people in

51:10

the Bible as if they were characters, like they didn't really exist. I don't understand.

51:15

There's a lot of things that I just question, but that right there alone,

51:20

when women in the church and men decide to stop having walls,

51:29

which are prideful walls, and they humble themselves and saying,

51:35

I don't have it all together. And I don't know whether you're a Catholic, a Christian, if you believe in Jesus

51:42

at the end of the day, if you can't humble yourself,

51:46

Jesus said, humble thyself under the mighty hand of God, and he will exalt you in due time.

51:53

He himself, I just told this to my staff today.

51:57

I told them, I said, if a volunteer can't come into my center and clean a toilet,

52:02

then they need not to be in my ministry. Because at the end of the day, Jesus Christ, all human, all God,

52:08

got on his knees and on the feet of the disciples.

52:11

How low can you go to wash somebody's feet that were in dirt and everything?

52:18

They even couldn't, and understanding the culture, what it is,

52:21

they couldn't have manure on their feet and everything.

52:23

And that man, Jesus Christ, washed the feet of his disciples and we can't even clean a toilet?

52:30

I can't, I don't, where's your humility?

52:34

Are you so prideful enough that you, you know, I tell people.

52:38

You forget. You forget where you come from. I told that to a church where I

52:43

went to the other Sunday. I said to them, we've gotten out of understanding how we have been set free.

52:51

And we get so comfortable that we forget where God set us free from. that we forget.

52:58

And then some people have been raised in it. There's been generations of children and grandchildren.

53:04

And I tell them, you're so comfortable because you have a life of a Christianity,

53:08

but you have to realize your grandparents or your parents had to get out of

53:12

something for you to be in this situation, in this lifestyle.

53:15

So you are forgetting, you're taking for granted the precious being a Christian.

53:21

This is the best time and the precious It's just time to be a Christian and

53:25

to know Jesus because we are the light of the world. We are the salt of the world.

53:29

We are the ones that set the trend and supposed to be the example of why the

53:34

world should be like us, not us like the world.

53:38

Amen. No, Eugene. Yeah, you've got so much to say. I love it.

53:42

Cindy, I know you had your hand up. We're almost out of time.

53:45

Go ahead real quick, and then we'll close out the program. I wanted to say,

53:48

as far as people being able to know that Jesus gets us,

53:54

is that he was abandoned, like you said, and he is totally righteous.

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There was a woman caught in adultery. He could have condemned her. He was perfect. He didn't.

54:09

He forgave her and he said, woman, go sin no more. That's the Jesus that we serve.

54:15

And I will piggyback on, Gene, what you said, that we are the salt and the light.

54:21

And I will add on to that, we are the hands and the feet of Jesus,

54:26

and the ears and the neck and the lapels, where we can wear life and speak for

54:36

life and open up a conversation. Oh, it's beautiful. This has been such an interesting, beautiful. Beautiful.

54:43

I mean, frankly, inspiring conversation. I just want to thank both of you for taking the time.

54:47

We are completely out of time this week, but I hope you two will come back.

54:52

Cindy, maybe we can at the next Catholic Spirit Radio Share-a-thon where they

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do their fundraising, maybe we can give one of your necklaces away to a donor for the program.

55:02

But listen, vitaeart.org and then Breaking Chains Against All Odds is on Amazon.

55:08

I'll post links at Facebook forward slash Truth Culture Life pod when this program

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airs. So I just want to thank Jean Marie Davis.

55:17

Thank you for coming. And Cindy Howard, thank you for joining us. Thank you.

55:20

All right, we're all out of time. You've been listening to Royce Hood on Truth

55:23

Culture Life and we'll see you next week. Thank you.

55:27

Music.