0:01

what is the what are you i'm saying you

0:04

have found can be really be

0:06

really three wild boys

0:09

the production

0:13

i had the show contains

0:16

discussions of an eating disorder if

0:18

you or someone you know is struggling with eating

0:20

disorders please listen

0:22

with care

0:26

the story of the bush boys who weren't lives

0:28

in the collective vernon memory in a very

0:31

specific way hoo boy

0:33

showed up in vernon who no one had

0:35

ever seen before this a while

0:37

so rude pure in our community so

0:39

thin and ghostly yeah

0:42

they have rags on their back on they don't have

0:44

a home they told us a fantastical

0:46

stores they were born and raised in the

0:48

bush

0:48

had apparently never seen a telephone they'd

0:51

never been to school it never been the dentist

0:53

nothing

0:54

he was like finding that lost tribe in

0:56

new guinea the good people of vernon rallied

0:58

around the boy said animated as

1:00

mission to see if i can help them to

1:03

a fine line to him the gave them food

1:05

clothing and shelter because of the story

1:07

they told us and then we

1:10

found out on national television

1:13

the story was a lie i found

1:15

out while i was uncovered they made it all up

1:17

none of it is true

1:18

my god i can't believe this it's

1:20

me on , square

1:23

, is

1:25

we felt taken advantage of and

1:27

humiliated all these funds and

1:29

time and effort expended on i'm from

1:31

people a community it just like

1:33

devastating

1:35

but they felt no apparent remorse

1:37

no apologies issues never never

1:40

, for anything a half

1:42

as see some he just

1:44

took me a so ungrateful and

1:47

finally they left town he

1:49

walked up the gangway in the plane never even

1:51

look back and was gone

1:54

good riddance that the vernon

1:56

version of the story the one

1:58

that was seared into my teenage rain

2:00

eighteen years ago for

2:02

, fall i started wondering what

2:04

is the boys version of that story story

2:07

there something they could tell me that was make

2:09

this whole bizarre series of

2:11

events make sense and

2:14

i was curious to find out given

2:16

who the boys were and what they did

2:19

nearly twenty years later who's

2:21

they become

2:24

the last fall i did something

2:26

i swore i would never do again i

2:28

went on facebook and i searched

2:30

for rowing horn he

2:32

came up immediately the

2:35

i opened a message and i started typing

2:38

i ruined my name is sam mullins

2:41

we've never met by seventeen

2:43

years ago in two thousand and three

2:45

we were in the same place at the same time

2:49

i told him that i hadn't been able to stop

2:51

thinking about the story and wondered

2:53

would he be willing to talk with me i

2:57

hit send and i waited

3:02

like tell me when she left those quarters a cow

3:04

store with a note asking the boys to call

3:06

her i expected nothing set

3:09

it aside a

3:12

week later in my inbox

3:14

hello sam what a great

3:17

idea let's do it

3:19

roman horn than

3:21

just a few days after that and

3:23

, here to strainer

3:26

the record here that's for sure

3:29

, in the wanna do you want to jump and

3:32

and love to know more about you to anything you want

3:34

to share about yourself oh yes so

3:36

i'm so i'm just like

3:39

a vernon kid was like a hockey

3:41

player hockey ah when

3:43

i was like are around the time the arab

3:46

and of arab getting from

3:50

, side media this ,

3:52

chameleon wild boys

3:55

first six roman

3:59

as assume the interesting

4:01

twists and turns all over

4:03

his stock market and

4:05

, i'm so excited sacks here have

4:08

rarely as that great

4:10

story

4:19

you're listening to chameleon capsized

4:24

there you put into your i care we

4:26

, so much into what we eat how

4:28

we exercise and skin care about one suits

4:31

that when our eyes at home irritated a

4:34

lot of a center have much of the god that's

4:36

my biases hydration besides author here

4:39

for provide instant more your

4:41

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and naturally inspired ingredients like and antioxidants

4:46

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4:49

a moisturizer five through his i care

4:51

stick

4:55

you're listening to chameleon

5:01

as i interviewed difference i was looking

5:03

for clues what turn two

5:05

boys from the california suburbs into

5:07

the infamous bush boys of at

5:11

first i just kind of tiptoed and like

5:14

so what was your childhood like

5:16

round i like the best how they died so

5:18

such a can't even tell people

5:22

i'm guilty revis as you get child

5:25

i talk to their older brother to we're

5:27

going gabriel were ,

5:30

of them getting into trouble at all as light

5:32

as kids now quite

5:35

the opposite never got in trouble not

5:37

era the oh

5:41

my kids

5:43

the boys mom diana i

5:45

haven't had trouble with enough

5:48

, no we got the the drugs going

5:50

on or the sassine bad

5:52

things has seen at mom's going on all

5:54

my says really good but as there

5:58

was a moment when it

6:00

like you started to change how

6:02

would you describe rowan as

6:04

like it normal

6:07

five euros not

6:10

normal fifteen year old

6:13

in after a unique

6:15

somewhere in high school the little there

6:19

are more off the beaten path and

6:21

mouse

6:23

what changed it appears

6:25

by romans account and by his mom's

6:27

to was the change

6:29

that happens to all the

6:32

capital ange puberty

6:35

where it all started from my

6:37

acne got really bad ass

6:40

there is , psych destroying

6:42

my my confidence in you know trying

6:44

to have a social conversation with someone and as

6:46

his temples all your face area ugly

6:49

ugly if you like really feel when their

6:51

eyes shift sideways or are

6:53

they just look just exactly

6:56

is so the i hurt my self esteem

6:58

my confidence and confidence

7:00

was wanting to find some way to

7:02

like share my acne and when i heard

7:04

this and when wait aren't their prescription

7:07

drugs for teenagers who really

7:10

acne yeah accutane

7:12

everything i never wanted city like

7:14

that and this this the

7:17

teenage boys famously

7:19

don't care what they put in their body

7:22

spots for this teenage boy

7:24

putting prescribe drugs into his body

7:26

was neither asia to

7:28

understand why that was you need to

7:30

know about his parents and the house

7:34

the horns

7:36

or a family with strong beliefs

7:38

which isn't to say that their beliefs were set in stone

7:41

that explored a lot of ideas but

7:44

once they locked into one thing locked

7:46

in hard and two things

7:48

they seem to have the strongest beliefs about

7:51

warehouse and they

7:54

were all runners led by roger should

7:57

bring his kids along to run five case with

7:59

him diana would always be searching

8:01

her magazines for the perfect diet

8:04

of has time that would be absorbed by

8:06

aldrin ronin kyle sister

8:09

went on to be tessa and

8:11

it was spirituality they've got their parents

8:13

together in the first place diana

8:16

and roger diana had grown

8:18

up a devout mormon the for and

8:22

then each and every one of

8:23

all seven children converted from

8:25

mormonism to christianity because we

8:27

became convinced

8:30

and diana didn't just convert to christianity

8:33

and leave it at that she moved to

8:35

utah to the very heart of

8:37

the mormon church to become a missionary

8:39

against the missionary as church

8:41

and the world to try to talk

8:44

mormons out which

8:47

is where she met another non mormon

8:49

missionary roger ,

8:51

really respected his spiritual

8:54

grounding his

8:55

very much that way and very humble

8:58

and a good sense of humor and let me when ping

9:00

pong the let it diana

9:03

was way into

9:05

she told herself after meeting him the first

9:08

time i wanna marry somebody dislike

9:10

him in

9:13

my interview with diana as she talks

9:15

about roger he smirks half

9:17

listening doing a sudoku beside

9:22

a year after they met roger

9:25

have worked at an insurance company die

9:30

she'd always wanted to be a mom and

9:32

a few years later she was

9:34

dead their first three kids boy

9:37

girl within a few years of each other

9:39

then there and

9:46

rohan was very much the baby

9:48

of the family he had the three older ones

9:50

and wrong was younger the always adored having

9:52

the sitting in a new young edition

9:54

you're handling it was a little kid

9:56

sweetie pie as the kids grew up

9:58

diane and roger

10:00

it started out parenting with a clear

10:02

list of rules and consequences

10:04

to save themselves from improvisational

10:06

moments of discipline something like

10:09

you talk back you get six minutes timeout

10:11

you pinch your brother that's two and a half spankings

10:14

and by the time and rather alone

10:16

i just it became a little bit more relaxed

10:19

oh yes row and experience

10:22

it's men i did gabriel

10:24

again the oldest of the horn kids

10:26

are more direct of or less less direct

10:28

lot more lackadaisical hey let the

10:30

let the kids you make their own choice

10:33

never wanna do i

10:35

know well conclusions

10:38

about in the world

10:40

diana and roger cared deeply about

10:42

jesus bible diana

10:45

remembers all four of her children were

10:47

baptized and a swimming pool in

10:50

the winter came to which church to

10:53

to borrow sports term they were

10:56

unrestricted free agents when

10:58

i first became a christian was just a regular conservative

11:01

christian church that we ended up an

11:03

addict

11:04

matic sure we tried baptist church

11:06

in all eyes i think i dabbled the seventy

11:09

nine eleven and spend a little time listen

11:13

add less allegiance to one specific

11:15

way and more to the idea

11:18

of questioning doubting

11:20

seeking our whole family i liked

11:23

that we would talk about things like was a

11:25

woman shy away from the big questions

11:27

of life would always be talking about for some

11:29

special thing and

11:31

that bill , and says the

11:33

big questions of life is

11:35

not just talking about where did we come from

11:38

why are we here is there a god

11:40

he's also talking about everything from reptilian

11:43

seals and he does every

11:46

some trails every conspiracy theory

11:48

their as aliens big plays conspiracy

11:50

theories were saying they talked about at the

11:52

kitchen table and around the house

11:55

oh yeah we were big conspiracy

11:57

family for rather mostly for

11:59

people

12:00

in the family were entered the conspiracies

12:02

roger diana row and

12:04

and kyle and the four of them are into conspiracies

12:07

the same way other families might be into

12:09

frisbee golf for me

12:11

the call theater oh yeah the whole nasa

12:13

thing you know like how we really did this a

12:15

moon you know that's another thing that interests

12:17

us and death

12:18

the army oppose they asked

12:20

me if i've gotten the covered vaccine

12:23

i have to say been vaccinated

12:26

oh , horns our team

12:29

and he backs glendale and eleven

12:31

o nine eleven that was a really

12:33

big ones even more so than exempt else

12:36

on this list list

12:38

my parents are convinced the the bladder

12:41

and nos ruins dad clarifies

12:43

not fully convinced flat

12:46

earth i'm probably

12:48

eighty percent the well i don't wanna die

12:50

into a right away just because they

12:53

make some servicing argument some analysts holds

12:55

asthma it's in our make sure i've heard

12:57

all the sides but they do have some convincing

12:59

artifact helio of fighter seats a slight

13:02

smile afraid i don't really

13:04

good idea for a pizza place

13:10

their beliefs cover the whole spectrum

13:12

roger and diana our interested in

13:14

ufo in bigfoot stuff they attended

13:17

a y to k convention but

13:19

they also believe darker things like

13:21

thinking incorrectly that nine eleven

13:24

was and inside job and that the

13:26

astronauts your died in the challenger explosion

13:29

they're still lives there so yes

13:31

row and they grow up in a family that was

13:34

the or you know in

13:38

truth that you're not gonna hear from mainstream this

13:40

has made

13:42

hiding stuff for me as i don't trust

13:44

with standard

13:45

im saying and i'm always

13:47

looking for the alternative private

13:49

alternative don't trust the mainstream this all started to turn

13:52

from philosophies rome believe

13:54

two things he actually would carry

13:56

out one thanksgiving day

13:59

the

14:00

if the acne was rowan's turning

14:02

point that thanksgiving was

14:05

the starting point that

14:07

whole thing

14:17

you're listening to chameleon

14:21

i thought i knew my dad better than anyone

14:24

but a couple months back we were talking

14:26

and he told me this wild story

14:29

about when he was traveling through europe

14:31

is a teenager he ran out of money

14:33

so he had to trade his van

14:36

for a cheap motorcycle and

14:38

then he wrote this motorcycle all the way

14:40

to afghanistan and that got me wondering

14:42

how many other stories don't i know that's

14:45

why got my dad we were story

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this episode is brought to you behind the jordan

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harbinger show which is an excellent

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podcast to add to your rotation it's

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entertaining informative

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and every week jordan dives into

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the minds of fascinating people from

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to mobsters spies

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and hostage negotiators harbinger

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is always an excellent interviewer and

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in your head of you become a

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better informed critical thinker to

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in nancy g he r on

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apple podcasts spotify

16:41

or wherever he listen

16:45

you're listening to chameleon that

16:50

thanksgiving diana was cooking

16:52

in the kitchen and nine year old rowan

16:54

was riding his bike in the parking lots

16:56

of the apartment complex where they lived

16:59

yeah i was writing over speed chloe

17:03

probably and it and however

17:06

and and handlebars

17:07

anyone got and the i

17:09

, back to my house in he comes

17:11

in and and saw my bike

17:13

i don't feel good hands i just sprawled

17:16

out on the so far as in pain

17:18

my trying as horrible like my side

17:20

are dying inside there was

17:24

and said hey lisa taken the half

17:26

of is connie my so my aunt finally called

17:29

an ambulance when they finally got to the hospital

17:31

they found out that row and had ruptured

17:33

spleen so he hadn't emergence comey

17:36

he was right

17:38

time on the doctor said okay yeah

17:40

so just going like an hour later sleep

17:43

you can live a normal life

17:45

without a spleen the other organs

17:47

in your body sort of pick up the slack to

17:49

make up for the spleen but

17:52

a person without a spleen is

17:54

more vulnerable to getting sick and

17:57

can have a tougher time fighting that's

18:00

during his time in the hospital doctors

18:02

would swing by to tell rowan about how

18:04

his life and body will be a

18:06

little bit different posts for the next to me

18:08

and i was so

18:11

you're going to have a compromised immune system

18:14

is there like oh if you get some pneumonia now that i could

18:16

kill you like rather people it wouldn't kill but

18:18

now if you get ammonia you could

18:20

die this information sat

18:22

extremely heavy in romans

18:25

i just came within an hour

18:28

of dying he thought and

18:30

now i'm i

18:32

fell weird on my bike so

18:35

now i'm more susceptible to illness

18:37

or and facts and for the rest of my life and

18:39

so has it in my mind is then became

18:42

programmed into me to think okay i better

18:44

be extra healthy

18:46

prize is compromised and

18:48

so now the doctors told them

18:50

don't worry too much we can prescribe you

18:52

stuff to help you then they

18:55

were gonna give me some pneumonia but

18:59

where most nine year olds had been raised

19:01

to see doctors as experts with

19:03

answers we were very the

19:05

doctors and and

19:08

the treatments because it it

19:10

meant it

19:14

mix with the health movement here

19:16

and we were always listen less conspiracy radio

19:18

and they'd always be saying no

19:21

he says that there's better ways so that's

19:23

the great thing you with we could be wow about

19:26

them then now

19:28

they're talking about

19:30

the topic when row in comes to

19:32

a fork in the past he tends not to think

19:34

should i go last it

19:36

thanks whom barack

19:40

i don't

19:40

for x and i decided instead of continue

19:43

on the vaccine for the immune system whatever

19:45

it's i decided i

19:48

the a really healthy right be the healthiest

19:50

first never and i'll say seguro made

19:53

my body will figure it out it's i'm healthy enough

19:55

he can be devastating to have life tell

19:57

you that your body's not invincible

20:00

i ruined took this news in and said

20:03

nope he

20:06

became obsessed with finding a way to tilt

20:08

the odds favor

20:10

and this is where the one thing that everyone

20:13

and vernon new about row and stay he

20:15

was obsessed with his diet this

20:17

is

20:18

again it was me trying to like

20:20

fried my anxiety the own

20:24

we can meet my fear of dying from who sick

20:27

me half the having control over my

20:29

die the thing it was fine

20:31

he trying to like home for myself and but

20:33

i do have can can i dive

20:36

i the units i

20:39

oh wow

20:41

you're not ruin started taking

20:43

a very strong interest in what

20:46

body and he started being started past

20:48

about the food that his mom was making

20:51

he'd roll up in the kitchen and be like okay

20:53

mommy or one we really

20:57

not only that jarred spaghetti sauce

20:59

look at it has that agreed is okay i'll make

21:01

homemade spaghetti sauce since

21:03

you put salt in it in can't either you

21:06

put salt in it and i'm like please

21:08

and now i'm it but diana and

21:10

roan were close and roan was the

21:12

babies so she'd make the roman

21:14

specific spaghetti sauce and whatever

21:19

rohan started bringing home things studied

21:21

read about supplements and

21:23

hyper specific that his

21:25

brother gabriel would open the fridge for a snack

21:28

and their be strange jars and bottles

21:31

be like must be for rowan

21:33

yeah you would have ideas and so certain products

21:35

would sell off some kind of special butter

21:38

jars male to us and like brass

21:40

powder from somewhere how

21:42

things escalated from weird supplements

21:45

and demanding artist only crafted spaghetti

21:48

sauce to suddenly this kid who'd

21:50

never been in trouble before running away

21:52

and cutting off all communication with the family

21:55

stick to

21:57

understand how that happened if

22:00

you go back yeah

22:03

the me hyped as he was

22:05

around my twelve thirteen

22:07

fourteen raz started to really

22:09

get bad acne making

22:13

me really have made the cure and

22:16

suspension yeah just think a man this

22:18

horrible looking in the mirrors us i'm like

22:20

this is awful i like horrible riot

22:23

emerald everywhere we would like i may

22:25

be rubbing alcohol and maybe a little

22:27

has impressed side and a

22:29

little this animals as a see what we could

22:31

do about it before know his his his face was

22:33

like read and rot

22:36

in more we did it was

22:38

terrible and nothing

22:41

source or thing about the super healthy diet

22:43

he been sticking to since losing his

22:45

spleen seem to have worked

22:48

so far none of the doctors predictions had

22:50

come true he , well

22:52

i've managed to not get sick once

22:55

in years surely i can cure

22:57

teenage acne acne

22:59

turns once again not to doctors

23:02

but at the internet but it's not

23:04

the internet they're like

23:06

if you think it's hard to find sound information

23:09

online now just try to remember

23:11

the chaos as the napster ask

23:14

jeeves geocities internet

23:16

of the early two thousand since he

23:19

be better off looking for answers scrawled

23:21

on answers public toilet seats or

23:23

spray painted on and overpasses

23:25

and then i started researching online researching

23:27

tracking myself and then and then said

23:29

the i saw toxins in

23:32

your diet oh you're not clean enough inside

23:34

only the have a cleaner diet

23:36

and all people say of all diet related

23:39

further , me obsessed about diet because

23:42

then it wasn't system i'm you system now had

23:44

to raise and now as vanity and

23:46

my insecurity for that the i want to fix

23:49

that but then i was also my immune system is

23:51

now doubling down the rabbit hole when

23:53

rabbit hole on a word that an

23:58

able to saying else fruit harry and as

24:00

the effort terry in your agnew ago where

24:02

you'll be the healthiest person our through terry

24:04

aneurysm is exactly

24:06

like fruit and nothing but

24:08

the fruit so help you god steve

24:10

jobs was jobs was practitioner

24:12

of fruit airiness some and one

24:14

time when ashton kutcher was dabbling

24:17

in method acting he was cast

24:19

as jobs in the film so he

24:21

ate a mostly fruit based diet but

24:25

he ended up in the hospital with a diet

24:28

cause pancreas it's

24:31

not a balance a

24:34

roman is fixated yeah

24:36

and he was lured in part by the one

24:39

saying both conspiracies and

24:41

mainstream minded team on

24:46

ah

24:48

who ran a popular forums and

24:51

she said she had were lacking

24:53

she said when she was a fruit tearing him rohan

25:01

since losing his spleen his family

25:03

gotten used to rome and blossoming into

25:05

a food sell it but the started

25:07

to feel less like a diet and

25:10

more

25:12

did he tell you i went to different area was

25:15

asked to sell the was to save

25:17

the life of the planet

25:18

the you know that he didn't even allow

25:20

himself to eat anything

25:23

the rule was a fridge here

25:25

and should eat oh really that's nice and

25:28

rattling and plant right so it extends

25:31

the morality of caring about animals extends

25:33

it's a plan right was careful of terror

25:35

plan one one going to kill the care eleventh

25:38

lives brian brown lives get

25:40

a kill the onion their onion their life

25:42

of the

25:44

he was like going from casual catholicism

25:55

you're listening to chameleon

25:58

the remains of for young the rebound

26:00

all

26:01

murder victim pupil tim miller is famous

26:03

for his ability to locate missing children

26:05

the tin spent every day for the past

26:07

forty years the figure out what happened

26:10

to his own daughter and he has every reason

26:12

to distrust the beginning

26:18

i'm only county a journalist and recently

26:20

licensed premises i shadowed

26:22

him as he put together evidence against the man

26:24

implied hedrick convicted killer

26:31

i heard you think that ten might not be hero

26:33

he's made us the games

26:35

are there any becomes increasingly clear it'll

26:38

do anything to get any wants with

26:40

started off as an excavation the past

26:42

to turn into present tense thriller one

26:44

which are feared for my my knows exactly where

26:46

she lives exactly what a phone numbers is everything

26:49

from cast media this is vigilantes

26:51

they may twenty third swear every day of

26:53

on a regular through this i saw

26:55

my door

26:58

icon

27:01

because an uncle of mine was murdered

27:03

or twenty years ago a bullet

27:05

smashes through doctor barnett's latvians

27:08

kitchen window he was killed for

27:10

providing

27:11

portions and now the battle

27:13

over abortion rights is heating up again

27:15

we're talking about six

27:17

precedent it appears now will definitely

27:19

be thrown out the window i'm

27:21

david written and desist the return of someone

27:24

know something available now

27:26

get early access

27:28

b c dot see a slash listen or

27:30

biceps true crime

27:33

channel on apple podcasts

27:37

you're listening to chameleon from camp side

27:39

media romans house

27:41

obsession started to veer into hyper

27:45

he stopped wanting to leave the house hung

27:47

out with friends less in a got to the

27:49

point could he didn't even wanna go to school

27:51

anymore roman wasn't

27:53

the most social animal to begin with

27:56

so this alarmed this mom

27:58

so he was afraid to go to school when i said

28:01

hey this is ridiculous how willing

28:03

to the doctor and as the can use it

28:06

the know how their prove or convince

28:08

him that is safe to go to school school

28:11

is where he would mingle with peers in

28:13

real life doctor

28:15

examines roman and he says he seems

28:17

to be in good health the

28:20

and says something just kind of in

28:22

passing an offhand remark

28:24

that would have unintended consequences

28:28

he had to say something ruined

28:31

the always been lean bite the combination

28:33

of his new it and a sudden

28:35

growth spurt that made him concerning

28:38

lee sin the were the to

28:40

seeing your elbows look a little to pronounce

28:43

nice book to pronounce and noticing that

28:45

on him but she couldn't convince rowena's

28:47

this so he turned to the door

28:51

and by the way don't you think is too thin the

28:53

doctor does a quick body mass index

28:55

evaluation and the said you know what

28:58

he is so day

29:00

the doctor about what's been going on with her

29:02

sons ltd diet how he flat

29:04

out

29:05

the to eat anything that he doesn't consider

29:07

to be healthy and hit the doctor

29:10

said really realistic into a psychologist

29:12

and kisses figured out without fully

29:15

realizing is diana has

29:17

just done the one saying that the horns fear most

29:20

she's gotten her son involved with

29:22

the system starts

29:24

, a psychologist their family

29:26

doctor referred them to win

29:29

a row and meets with a shrink he as

29:31

always he more than willing to divulge every

29:33

detail about as dietary beliefs

29:36

after which the psychologist sits down

29:38

with diana and tells her

29:40

she's extremely alarming he

29:43

says oh yeah he's yeah

29:45

killing himself and he said to

29:48

realize her son is mentally ill i

29:50

never agreed with the doctor that he was mentally

29:52

ill i just thought he was a fanatic

29:56

there's marry someone the shrink says

29:58

your son needs to get treatment yeah

30:02

she sent him to an outpatient program

30:04

the problem was anorexia was

30:07

not the right box to put rolling he

30:09

was never against eating food food

30:12

was his favorite every time one

30:14

that would come in at the kitchen there would

30:16

be rowan row and was eating

30:19

a lot by all the time

30:21

he was always getting some solid

30:24

together always working on some food

30:26

saying and so it would

30:28

have been nonsensical

30:30

the town the ecowas the ecowas always in the process of doing

30:32

something for food so rowing

30:34

goes into this program that's not that's

30:36

all design

30:37

into souls his actual problem

30:40

they start to think yeah of anorexia

30:42

they had this idea that i never i feel and really

30:44

had or thorax the

30:47

they made the mistake of

30:50

, you get him into a analysts

30:52

at program when he had a completely different conditions

30:55

in eating disorder specialist

30:57

we spoke with or yamaha

31:00

this misdiagnosis didn't surprise

31:02

him that orthorexia is much

31:04

less common so people interacts

31:07

yeah it's , even included

31:10

in the dsm the manual used

31:12

to diagnose mental illnesses

31:14

today today

31:16

sometimes presents like anorexia

31:19

both restrict food and away by

31:22

in or thoracic is less concerned with

31:24

the amount of food and more concerned

31:26

with the purity of the said

31:30

the belief that some food is good

31:32

and makes you healthy and some

31:34

is bad and will literally

31:38

oh you're not clean enough inside only this

31:41

have a cleaner diet this fed right

31:43

into his or threats yeah the

31:46

specialist told us that part of the drive

31:48

toward orthorexia is the desire

31:51

to control the uncontrollable

31:54

if you just eat perfectly enough

31:56

you can avoid and various

31:59

things and lies sickness death

32:02

which is also what often what track the

32:05

theories feeling

32:07

like you have an explanation for the

32:09

inexplicable can feel like a sort

32:12

of country when

32:14

rowan started iraqi shia

32:16

outpatient program still refuse to

32:18

eat their feared nothing but

32:21

because he didn't like it to

32:24

him they're impure process

32:27

hospital said but

32:30

they miss that distinction so the

32:32

group kicked him out and then i'm like

32:34

oh great now what will we do then

32:37

the doctors are like let's just try

32:39

putting them in a mental hospital but

32:41

the problem with a mental hospital would

32:43

be the same for route and row

32:45

in would flat out refuse to eat the

32:48

third and they're like you know that's okay

32:50

feed us our food will just let him lose weight

32:52

until

32:53

the point where we can like to him

32:56

into base

32:57

force feed him and i'm like see

33:00

this is a really select service some

33:03

and i'm not even convinced this mentally ill

33:06

diana could start to feel the tendrils

33:09

of the system take hold of rohan

33:11

the wanted to just do tangle

33:14

at all is to just take her boy home

33:16

go back the board as the family

33:19

but it was too late they're ,

33:21

okay if you don't agree to this we're

33:23

going to cause a child protective service service

33:26

i says well

33:28

okay assess which are gonna do i'd

33:31

rather discuss this was rather discuss protective services

33:34

you're interested in the wellbeing of the time

33:36

maybe when we all talk about the sale also

33:39

agree there must be a better approach

33:41

to this and the mental

33:43

hospital diana

33:45

says she was fully come

33:47

howard is checking in with doctors

33:50

bringing him to appointments by

33:53

some wrestled control away from her according

33:56

to diana they said put him in the the

34:00

take him away all this

34:02

time diana had been afraid

34:04

for rowan though he was

34:06

too barone

34:09

was afraid now for his house stews afraid

34:12

to use about to lose his freedom

34:14

i'm just afraid of

34:17

general movements the fearful person

34:20

afraid of the government i'm afraid of tops

34:22

i'm afraid of anything anyone our

34:25

made me afraid ever since

34:28

words mental hospital he

34:30

, shake this growing sense of dread

34:32

it brought up a very specific image

34:35

in his mind like one

34:37

flew over the cuckoo's nest sure my favorite

34:39

movies and movies not

34:42

the psychiatric industry

34:45

anything that like forces people

34:47

to do things against their well as as

34:49

it's always been a nightmare to me knowing

34:51

now the conspiracy diet that he'd

34:53

been of whole youth

34:56

sees who's staple was the system

34:59

is out to get you guard your freedom

35:01

at all costs

35:03

what , next next

35:05

feels to me almost inevitable

35:08

if you grow up believing that your own

35:10

government was responsible for nine eleven

35:13

and lie

35:17

the shootings why ,

35:19

you turn yourself over to those

35:21

authorities authorities

35:26

was now keeping one eye on the door

35:29

waiting for the knock that man the authorities

35:31

were coming for him determined

35:33

that if they did he wouldn't be

35:35

wouldn't i , like ready

35:39

i get the stop the hats ago like a

35:41

he had odd about ahead of time the okay if they're

35:43

they're the door i'm at do something i go somewhere

35:46

and i one day for our great

35:48

surprise day horror and amazement a

35:51

knock on the door it's

35:53

the morning i'm eating or

35:56

their feelings mortgages they're

35:58

in there the case

36:00

in as usual

36:02

you're a knock at the door and here's the child protective

36:04

service and a police officer our

36:06

kittens acting kind of hidden

36:08

a little bad side and out of sight

36:11

but i'm looking and say this is a court order

36:13

we were lots to do have like

36:16

there's some kind of a forty eight hours caesar

36:18

where they're allowed to take someone who may or may the

36:21

mentally ill in order to diagnose some for

36:23

, own safety i might

36:25

even heard the name role and or whatever and then the

36:28

freak out and we also have the singer were taking

36:30

you to court for custody and i might really

36:33

this is this over the top because i

36:35

was willing to cooperate

36:38

i just want is no is the child protective

36:40

services that thing

36:42

for him and her you've like come against

36:44

me oh my gosh i think oh gosh

36:46

i gotta go immediately said

36:48

the nearly i drop everything are doing so he's like

36:50

we're going to put me in a mental hospital and they're gonna

36:52

try to take custody way for my

36:54

parents

36:55

there's a flooding back door in the kids

36:57

and i try to open the sliding glass

36:59

door as quietly as i can

37:11

rome and runs across the line and

37:14

hurdles his frame over the fence i'm

37:16

just running and i am and , turn

37:18

make a turn leads to hop another phase

37:21

phase not sure if they saw him and his bushes

37:24

and i'm just thinking i gotta hide around here

37:26

for a while it's they start driving their

37:28

car around on now on them alerts

37:30

wondering what they saw make me adding

37:33

that i didn't even bother looking behind because i'm too

37:35

afraid fry know they would wear fallen

37:38

in rome and sixteen year old or direct

37:40

sick minds the

37:50

new only things that his life isn't hi

37:55

to force him to a point and

37:57

he'll that he's running

38:00

first life ruined

38:03

, down in a bush wants

38:06

he was reasonably sure that no answer

38:09

comfortable he

38:11

, he'd have to say here for

38:13

a few hours and least until

38:15

it got dark he

38:18

knew what he do that he go on

38:20

tap go the window

38:30

chameleon is a production of camp side media

38:32

with sony music while boys

38:34

was reported in written by me sam

38:36

mullins it's produced by avatar

38:39

a dawn and are editor is karen

38:41

doesn't our senior producer is

38:43

ashley on trick bought sound

38:45

, and mixing by hennis ground

38:48

and gareth he demands demands

38:50

music by hand as browns guaranteed

38:52

i'm an epidemic sound and blue dots

38:54

sense or fact checkers alec

38:56

the outlines special thanks to our operations

38:59

team slay when only of hates

39:17

josh dean and adam hof if

39:26

you or someone you know is struggling

39:28

with your relationship with food please

39:30

no you're not alone there are free

39:32

confidential helplines with people just

39:34

waiting to help waiting us

39:37

you can call or text the national eating

39:39

disorder association eating one

39:41

eight hundred nine three one two

39:43

to three seven that's one eight hundred

39:45

nine three one two to two seven

39:48

in canada the national eating disorder

39:50

information center hotline disorder

39:53

six the three four that's

39:57

one eight six six six three three

40:00

you too thanks for

40:02

listening will see you next week do

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