0:13

What a friends will go back.

0:15

This is that She's law. We

0:17

feature the hackers the leaders in

0:19

the innovators drive in the future

0:21

of software. I the Cove Yak

0:23

editor in chief here at She's

0:26

Well Today anti in a Thomas

0:28

Paul me and co founder and

0:30

Ceo of Recast. We discuss what

0:32

it means to be productive on

0:34

a Mac going beyond their free

0:36

tier, the extensions built by the

0:39

community for recast, and the future

0:41

of the recast store other executing.

0:43

On recast a I Chat which

0:45

aims to be a single interface

0:47

too many l a Lamb's and

0:49

how they've gone beyond being an

0:51

application launcher to fall on productivity

0:53

mode with access the ai paving

0:55

the way of their future. A

0:58

massive thank you to our friends

1:00

at Fly.iowa for been the home

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abs near use it because Fly

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Analytics: everything is inside Fire

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Hydrant For modern engineering teams

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and what you're about. the

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here are. Real reactions from Patriot

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users when things signals from Fire Hydrant

2:01

for the first time paid your duty

2:03

and want to say their he's all

2:06

but they're an evil that we've had

2:08

to maintain. I know all of our

2:10

engineering teams as was myself for interested

2:13

in getting this moving the correct direction

2:15

as right now just managing a maintaining

2:17

our user seats has become problematic that

2:19

so that's that's really good actually the

2:22

services to stick consistent problem for us

2:24

and taints is at covering these sorts

2:26

of ad hoc timeframe says is very

2:29

difficult Ah mean. I putting in

2:31

like either rods and specific dies

2:33

and different do shit is is

2:35

quite onerous on you did the

2:37

most important which is didn't tie

2:39

them together. That's half the problem

2:41

with Tgt right is A at

2:43

all these alerts and that I

2:45

get an incident per alert. and

2:47

generally speaking with go sideways. You

2:49

get lots of alerts because lots

2:52

of things are broken but you

2:54

only have one insistence. Yeah I'm

2:56

super impressed with that because being

2:58

able to find a different. Themes

3:00

is an issue for us because I'm

3:02

like the one of one alert flyers

3:04

for one team and anything like that

3:06

to bounce around and a never doubted

3:08

I wish then means that we have

3:10

time to communication issues because like people

3:12

aren't updates now I in which had

3:14

to be open and honest I went

3:16

and we switched. Our

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cue the next step is to go

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to firehydrant.com/signals assemble the scene and worth

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of problems that a single swivel on

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the chair far hasn't delivers end to

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end incident management. And on

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call learning for a modern

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software seems guess or for

3:35

free Once again, Fire hydrant.com/signals.

4:01

Well some is one of my favorite tools

4:03

to use. his rake has all of you

4:05

know this but or the about that are

4:07

like it that the other really great ask

4:09

you use Rica. I do like the bay.

4:12

it's. A is it also every

4:14

valid that? So yeah I'm quite

4:16

familiar with the to visit get

4:19

old like building and using the

4:21

tool like how does it's how

4:23

do you separates a know avid

4:26

user happy user. To you

4:28

know. Cofounder. Of

4:30

the company leading the team, etc. I

4:33

think I don't separated at that,

4:35

so I think Gerbe. Since.

4:37

Day One: Everybody works

4:39

at Rey cause that's for themselves.

4:42

Who. It's. It's one of our sequence

4:44

sober powers like we build a tour. We

4:46

won a half. So. We can be

4:48

quite a penny it is about it. Was

4:50

a business. And then

4:53

luckily there are enough people like us

4:55

out there. that and so exactly the

4:57

same tool. And. His mother when not

4:59

listening to the other a some and we have

5:01

the community. That. Bombarding also seed

5:03

bagel the time. But. We surrounding

5:06

us with the seed bed and built for

5:08

ourselves so whenever Mr So even though I'm.

5:10

Technically the Ceo of the company, I'm

5:12

still a user and. This. Is how

5:14

I. Will definitely the

5:17

Ceo assist. Okay, Why

5:20

I love recasts. I. A

5:23

for you What I used before these laws

5:25

far before and several others over the ear.

5:27

and there's always been some sort of launcher

5:29

for Mac computers Now Mcelwain was it was

5:31

A was Ten back in the day. Now

5:33

it's my go. As almost said in a

5:35

way. Similar. Operating System

5:37

mean. There's always been some

5:39

sort of once referred I think that's. A

5:42

wonder what makes a launcher. Important.

5:45

For. Any user especially

5:47

like a productive use I

5:49

feel like launchers or the.

5:52

Or for the the few is they're not really

5:54

for the money and me. that makes you sad no

5:56

way. and in the Middle East or one expand

5:58

that to many. but I feel like. Everybody

6:00

wants to use a launcher. Or.

6:03

Feel the need to. They dislike clutter

6:05

their bar down there. whatever that will

6:07

that bar is the bottom of a

6:09

Mac Africa even scarred by doc the.yeah

6:11

okay thing to have that a doc

6:13

this club.with all these icons they're all

6:15

times and he sometimes even like keep

6:17

the dog. Presence. Not

6:20

hidden and which I'd like hide my.obviously I'm

6:22

or a Cassius or sorry. cancers are like

6:24

hide everything they keep it away and the

6:26

closer when of they want to know do

6:28

you think it is that makes this particular

6:30

platform Because I don't think it's very popular

6:32

on windows? I could be wrong. On

6:34

that a Windows user. But. What you

6:36

think makes a launch or. That.

6:39

Rakesh represents Now you have expanded the

6:41

ai and more things of course more

6:43

tooling extensions, but just simply an application

6:46

launcher. What makes that Poplar. On.

6:48

The map platform the air said

6:50

that question for the voice. Been

6:53

around for ever a ride. so.

6:56

I think the oldest one of them is

6:58

called Quicksilver. Haemophilus and progressive

7:00

for many with it love quicksilver he

7:02

adds like the old see basically a

7:04

thing they really one of the first

7:06

on some make popular. And

7:08

then launched by Alfred came around.

7:10

They. Basically. Took this to a

7:12

next level. And. Then x the spotlight

7:14

them afterwards which is by the fact that many

7:16

people now. says. But let them

7:18

afterwards. And I think spotted really sort of

7:21

commercialized the Droid. So when Apple build something

7:23

and it becomes part of though s. A

7:26

sort of like mainstream but then

7:28

I know people that have a

7:30

nice since let alone transport lead

7:32

before. Because. It's like I

7:34

said that know it exists. Like

7:36

it's not really visible on the computer. I

7:39

those know on a little but new conflict.

7:41

But. It's not very albus. But. and

7:43

when you experience for the first time

7:45

it's just really make click like hey

7:47

i wanna launch an app. Iti

7:50

been the up name oppressor turn. Hey.

7:52

I wanna such a file. I do exactly

7:54

the same. Hey. I even can

7:57

do calculations. Hey can I check

7:59

the weather and. Kind of go on this

8:01

wondering what you can do with it and. Off.

8:03

To see use cases it becomes muscle memory

8:05

and a thing it's all about. The muscle

8:07

memory was dose in the face the the.

8:10

F A Merrill. The. Com and go

8:12

as fast as possible. And. The

8:14

wax optimizing for as little time spend in the

8:16

tool which is mary counter intuitive to a lot

8:18

of on the software. But. This

8:21

is icing. What for me? The perfect

8:23

Vondra Dust Like you have something I

8:25

can then and intend in your mind.

8:28

And you want to perform this as quick

8:31

as possible. And this can be as

8:33

little as launching an app, which it probably does

8:35

to like dozens or hundreds of times a day.

8:38

But. It can also be been bigger

8:40

My may be interacting with other third

8:42

party tools. Creating. Some issues

8:44

checking a pull request feathers. And

8:46

the of the force. But. This is

8:49

what befell like hey, this interface. Is

8:51

super powerful because it's so simple. And

8:54

you learn to want this interface once and

8:56

then you can apply to. And.

8:58

Plus awful things and is what you've done

9:00

to cause I I We have expanded to.

9:03

Quick. He's to center my

9:05

windows to maximize certain windows

9:07

of pretty stupid sol. Of

9:10

the snippets. Feature.

9:12

I've got several in there. I've got

9:14

sore cause to certain a folders die

9:17

go to a Director's ago too frequently

9:19

the on my Mac downloads screenshots those

9:21

would like to. I'd college Dolan navigate

9:23

to everything else on my navigating to

9:25

personally. Second, to have my

9:27

finder default to like my most important place

9:29

to go to Some from there on a

9:32

my navigate around visibly two different thoughts on

9:34

like. I just want to go to.

9:36

Downloads are only going to screenshots because I want to

9:38

share this thing quickly. I wanted to go find where

9:40

screenshots is Cetera, I. Think that's

9:42

been fun for me. Like exploring

9:45

unique ways to use a loss

9:47

for obviously applications has been key.

9:49

I haven't done much edition or

9:51

multiplication or any sort of math

9:53

have activities. I don't really

9:55

use your yeah feet return. I am a

9:58

pro user. I mainly keen for pro. Think

10:00

my settings and I did not stay

10:02

for a i am open at some

10:04

point Ai gets better. And. Or

10:06

me got great did that. But I just got

10:08

a chance. you beauty.com. Or whatever the U

10:11

R L is for it and the and go

10:13

there. I don't understand why would want to go

10:15

somewhere else but maybe you can help minister like

10:17

what does the lure? For. Folks expand

10:19

the be on application launch and what

10:21

is it that makes people go. And.

10:24

Do what I've done, which is snippets and

10:26

circuits and a I am et cetera. Yeah,

10:29

So. I started was like we're building the to

10:31

for ourself right? And others like how

10:33

many of those features on Right costs so.

10:36

Pick. The window management. Ah, come on that,

10:38

it's just mentioned. Like. I

10:40

personally remember a few odd case to do

10:42

a window on the less than under the

10:44

ride. But. In some them to have

10:46

his other positions and you don't really remember. Hot

10:48

case I can't remember. How many of

10:51

those. So. That's a lot outweigh the

10:53

second leg. Instead of remembering all this the

10:55

hard case, maybe I can trust fellow this

10:57

Co Monterrey cost nothing to have such them.

10:59

Said. A dad and then disliked turn

11:01

out hey other people like the other

11:04

small because as much more accessible. So.

11:06

We added this. Then. Is like

11:08

oh, we oftentimes open directories an hour

11:10

save for directories a web sites so

11:13

we added quick links like a quick

11:15

way to open something. And. It's

11:17

like a lot of those features that you see

11:19

nowadays. Their base a came out. Of.

11:21

Our own problems. Initially,

11:23

Before we opened up re cost

11:26

without a p I to other

11:28

people extend the functionality. Then.

11:30

It's not just about our own problems, but the

11:32

problems of. Thousands. Of developers

11:34

that are willing to like put in

11:36

the effort to automate those little. Paper.

11:39

Cut throat a day essentially. Putting.

11:41

That's like the first thing that people I guess

11:43

soon as down the stand. The system aside, oh.

11:46

I. Can extend that and can make my own.

11:48

There's. A lot of on presently say some like

11:50

you mentioned something that he use. We.

11:52

Have this some youtube video serious with

11:55

Scott! What's in my Rey cause of

11:57

into few rey cause users. And.

11:59

All of them. Rey cause very differently which I

12:01

think just a fun thing like it's one

12:03

tool. But. He can use it

12:05

and mary very different ways and some

12:08

people discover of features after the been

12:10

used for several months or years which

12:12

is kind of crazy so it's super

12:14

feature rich. And probably do a

12:17

pretty bad shop explaining all this features but

12:19

you also don't wanna obama person like hey

12:21

there's other literal thousand things you can do.

12:24

So. It's like. Almost like a bit

12:26

of a game. Like a video game that bestowed

12:28

doing a few little things. And. Then

12:30

you stumble up across something and it's

12:32

another the school need pig a you

12:34

feature at you. Adopt for you to

12:37

books and he go forward. To. Think

12:39

all of those things planned to come to better. But.

12:42

Coming to a eyes like basic the same

12:45

principle. So. When I

12:47

think about modern software in

12:49

central. When. A word and wanna

12:51

be. Very. Focused. I

12:54

wanna stay most likely in one two or

12:56

where do my job? This can be mighty

12:58

to write code. This. Can be

13:00

no snow, another added or to.

13:03

Write. My content or whatever I'm doing. And.

13:05

Then whenever I need to switch that there

13:08

was a context, which animal and this that

13:10

usually. Oftentimes ends up with like

13:12

you ending up somewhere else. Do you wanna

13:14

go? For example, it's had sympathy. For.

13:16

The new in the browser he is he

13:18

old tab which was twitter. You going

13:21

down that way the rabbit hole has and you

13:23

lose his. It's right. So with right as we

13:25

sort of in person that we wanna keep you

13:27

in the flow. who want to make sure that

13:29

he can do you work. You can

13:31

open rey cause and do as many things out of

13:33

there as possible that it don't need to go somewhere

13:35

else. This. Is what we see Many

13:37

people use reckless they i for. Either.

13:40

Way to open re costs and also quick

13:42

question get the answer carry on. With.

13:44

A do dozens of time during interviews like Samba

13:46

went terms come up that I don't know. It's

13:48

as like. Come. On space what is

13:50

excellent that get the answer on tickle know

13:52

and I'll be more. Or

13:54

people use it during coding and other things wasn't

13:57

they? I sat on the side and can answer

13:59

see. Sort of the assistant where

14:01

they can ask questions asked, a work through

14:03

a problem and half that just sitting right

14:05

next to the to they use do. So.

14:08

We don't need to open up a new tab,

14:10

it's just always with you wherever you work across

14:12

any make up, the case and. L

14:15

of that as you are describing your

14:17

use case and I use it especially

14:19

the are part of it is is

14:21

assigned how do I get their. The.

14:24

To be that the most. Hard.

14:26

Thing I suppose, but you made a pretty easy

14:28

biased. Making. It the com and way

14:30

you get to. The. Launcher Wishes or

14:32

the prompt amateur would you would call

14:34

the main window of recast. But.

14:37

Command Space gets you there and then

14:39

Tag get you to an Ai prompt essentially

14:41

and I'm assuming sort of. Honor

14:43

Any sort of rules were have set a

14:45

different. Lm. as my default

14:48

or if I've got. You. Know

14:50

Turbo. You. Know maximize

14:52

are minimized or whatever the options

14:54

are there. It's pretty

14:57

good that is that close away even

14:59

if is three point five for. Does.

15:01

Everybody gets. Access. Three Point

15:03

Five is that a anybody who goes right

15:05

now and down was recast gets that. They're.

15:08

Now we have like the free

15:10

tier that's. All. Of it's that

15:12

we had before. Which. Was always our they

15:14

want to give away a tool for free. Was.

15:17

They I features we have on their part

15:19

of the pro plan So if you subscribe

15:21

you get their cigarette cloud synchronization a to

15:23

use you get a I. Knew. That

15:26

cost them seems and a few other bits and

15:28

pieces. And. Then. When.

15:30

You wanna have one of those more advanced

15:32

models for farmers who before or cloth three

15:34

all posts. From. And throw faked than

15:36

we have like a high a price t

15:39

of for individuals. More or less to

15:41

base a cover, the costs of Ai and away. From

15:44

yeah. I guess I've been taken

15:46

my free said Cbt three point five

15:48

for granted because I just haven't even

15:50

been using it at all. Really? Exactly.

15:52

A message seems that. Why? Don't

15:54

you get here? Even like I mean, I totally

15:56

understand where the use cases because I'm a user

15:58

obviously. But how

16:01

did you even get to building recast

16:03

self more? The journey to this to

16:05

why this all would get excited about

16:07

have had even get here Yeah definite.

16:10

So. We started bag and twenty

16:12

twenty or so. peter me those

16:14

incentives. We work together at Facebook

16:16

before. And we saw

16:18

lighters. So many tools to have

16:20

to deal everyday with and this

16:22

felt. Somehow. Counter Intuitive

16:25

because who sell the lot of the

16:27

tools that we use? Their. The.

16:29

Not really optimized for the works us

16:31

we have. Often mc want to

16:34

quickly together know analytics or like of feats of

16:36

flak. What's the status of this and for that

16:38

any to. Open a browser and

16:40

we go to the page find the

16:42

right thing and as like artist since

16:45

so cumbersome. And we were always

16:47

really keen about productivity and then at some

16:49

point we saw that. That's figure out

16:51

a way how to make this better. Than. Must

16:53

be one, right? And. This

16:56

was a time when I think

16:58

C'mon pallets became hip again. I

17:00

guess. Developers: we know them for years like

17:02

you know them from supply him. From.

17:05

Be as code nowadays. But. In

17:07

other apps have found really common.

17:09

So apps like Linear and Superhuman.

17:12

And even as it notion back in the days,

17:14

that was enough to first tools that made them

17:16

a bit more. Yeah. Commercialized

17:18

some mainstream. And.

17:20

We sewed like hey, The. Best on would

17:22

probably be when we have this one just

17:24

globally like it sits on top of everything.

17:27

And that we started basically billing the ads

17:29

pretty quickly realized like you need to cover

17:31

all the basic said spotlight does because it

17:34

would only have one of those in the

17:36

phases running on the a Mac. He.

17:38

Will not have. Different. Topic is full

17:40

of launched a different launchers. You want to have

17:42

one that does everything for you. To.

17:45

Basic in the okay, we need to cover

17:47

all the basics of spotlight and then we

17:49

can start building on top of that to

17:51

do the other things. This. Was back

17:53

in the days when we were was see who are

17:55

part of. The. Window Twenty Twenty Bats

17:57

This was basically started the batteries.

18:00

That's built this as he thought it

18:02

was like free the of intense building.

18:04

Peter. And I flew to San Francisco.

18:07

State. In mountains you and was twenty four

18:09

Seven says low pay You wake up at eight

18:11

am. The. New builds until you buzzing

18:13

fall asleep and then he do the same

18:15

thing again. It was voted most

18:17

productive time in my life because he had

18:20

no obligations whatsoever our to. It's really fun.

18:22

And. We then quickly

18:24

realized, hey, They. Were

18:27

where it's heading to. Other engineers of the

18:29

was seen at work. There were all using

18:31

Sera. And. That wanted to

18:33

have a quick a way to access this exact before.

18:35

The reasons I mentioned like they have a quick buck

18:37

report. And. They would need to open a browser.

18:40

Navigate the Tehran. Pressure. British

18:42

you button above we've been derived.

18:45

Is so the first extension that rebuild

18:47

that was sort of outside of the

18:49

classic spotlights go. Was. A sensitive,

18:51

raw. And then we went to the

18:53

internet's we talk to and gave it to them.

18:56

And. Did lie go A sort of a

18:58

manual on board in so where I was hoping

19:00

on a video call with them. Was.

19:02

Walking through. I was

19:04

in progress. Leads cause this was like

19:06

building things very quickly to validate the

19:08

ideas. And. Then we were fixing it

19:11

behind the scenes and on board the next person.

19:13

And so of plugged ourselves to was

19:15

like okay this this works and and

19:17

we saw people. Were. Sticking with it

19:19

and we're using it on a daily basis. And

19:22

then move quickly. Add a few. Engineers

19:24

and companies like a been

19:27

be Lifts. Me, you name it, And

19:29

say okay, there is something here. And add

19:31

sort of gave us the confidence of. Going.

19:34

Off the this. As. Humans are

19:36

quite nice. Interface: Where is. Almost.

19:39

No other company doing that anymore. Ahmed my Be

19:41

gets a bit more popular now with they I

19:43

will People wanna come back to the desktop. But.

19:45

Pure Desktop Software. And.

19:48

This special form factor is not really

19:50

like that many companies going off the

19:52

that right everything sort of moved to

19:54

the web. For. The homeless counterintuitive would

19:56

we do and go in for the

19:58

operating system? Is it. And.

20:01

Even if you look at your manifesto which

20:03

I I do not touch on I suppose

20:05

you believe it in as necessary but. When

20:08

you say we right Native code. I think

20:10

even when you think about building a business

20:12

around this tool, it's also building a business

20:15

around native code that's written for Mac. O

20:17

S it's Not Is is built on top

20:19

of Apple's primitive not. You. Know.

20:22

Some. Sort of web software, which not. It

20:24

is not bad, it's just that you went

20:26

to the need a route to make it

20:28

as fast as possible, use the least my

20:30

resources as possible to be really as Apple

20:32

native as possible without being an Apple. Actual

20:35

application written by Apple? Yeah! and you're also

20:37

competing with Spotlight which is pretty fast and

20:39

does have a lot of seats are find

20:42

myself disabling a lot of it. doesn't really

20:44

need a lot of it. And

20:46

I find myself like, just not

20:48

really. obviously. using. Re has

20:50

not using Spotlight. really it all having

20:53

zero need for it. And. So

20:55

you can. I have doubled resources if you don't

20:57

go in disable. Manually.

20:59

Is in of the some of the

21:02

things that happen for Spotlights now there's

21:04

some. Find Her search featured You gotta

21:06

keep enable because I do find myself

21:08

command effing and in finder and searching

21:10

for certain things and directories. Nuts very

21:12

helpful as the nicer like Spotlight as

21:14

a search for files I don't find

21:16

it very useful. Dot. Vs on

21:18

on the how recast years or so and of

21:20

August. Here. So. I

21:22

think this is what I'm and like down. Since.

21:25

You know they use and treatise different

21:27

that you can say a build a

21:29

tool for people that have a new

21:31

spotlight right? and then you kind of

21:33

bring them on. But. We were in

21:35

the camp like hey. The. People we

21:37

target which is sort of. Again,

21:39

rebuild for ourselves so incentives technical

21:41

people, They. Know spotlight

21:44

right? So we take this as a crime

21:46

but and co pay the Know spotlight. Economy.

21:49

To replace that first and if you

21:51

have Dad's and by. Send. You

21:53

can move forward. There. Is the question?

21:55

How do you replace it like one is like

21:57

you make? They exist in features better. It

22:00

for the typical i ten x better than

22:02

people switch kind of stuff. Or.

22:04

Yet more features and I think we did a

22:06

good mix of both. We. Took.

22:09

The features. That's. What

22:11

I have and were making them. Better.

22:13

For I'll use cases we have like

22:15

a more reliable search for apps. We

22:17

made it like faster than Spotlight and.

22:20

That. Is like sort of the table stakes.

22:23

And. Then we added new features with

22:25

simple ones like window management. Was clear

22:27

what history. With. Other features that

22:29

base again. Many. Of our

22:31

users have you to Lawrence of the For.

22:34

We. Find ourselves like hey, If

22:36

he can use more of the same

22:38

interface afraid cause it becomes basic be.

22:41

Even. Was digging cause who enjoy it more he

22:43

can use it more often. So. We

22:45

added more of those little features over time.

22:48

And. Then it can pile up to something really, really

22:50

big because you have. So. Many things

22:52

to do every day. And we see

22:54

users like wheezing and hundreds of times a day

22:56

like the use it's we have is crazy. Which.

22:59

We also see an hour and of the Dixville. Yeah.

23:03

That's true. Do. As. Opposed to

23:05

mention that analytics. Let's also tent on the

23:07

other manifesto which is privacy. What I thought

23:10

was pretty cool. And just

23:12

because you mentioned illness, why mention

23:14

this? Because I didn't notice until

23:16

I was preparing for this conversations

23:18

or revisit. Your manifesto? What? You.

23:21

Declared. You got four points in the

23:23

say: we respect your privacy, We do the

23:25

business we right, Native code, we grow community

23:27

and so. When I think it's important

23:29

to tongue when analytics is like how are you tracking

23:31

your users because you give this. You.

23:33

Know the large majority of the usefulness

23:36

that is Ray Cast for replacing spoiling

23:38

for example as you mentioned before as

23:40

the default and then some Of course

23:43

with extensions for the default recast the

23:45

south of is non pro non paid.

23:48

Is. Quite liberal in terms of it's use

23:50

like you is free. anybody this listing this

23:52

can go and check it out, download that

23:54

and then again the next question is okay.

23:56

Great Nave get this. Free.

23:59

Tool and Though. The hands of a

24:01

lot of people attempting to adopt this tool

24:03

and potential become a paid user on a

24:05

team or an individual or whatever. But.

24:08

Didn't you think? well, how are you tracking those

24:10

people? So I guess I'll just let you speak

24:12

for yourself versus we read your manifesto. Are.

24:15

You tracking folks? We're.

24:17

So. The. Thing

24:20

that happened to be on board of the first

24:22

people and we had to burgle. I pay any

24:24

to lock in for it is up to use

24:26

it. And. Then head and literally

24:28

I think the first person said like. What?

24:30

Had to any to la fin on like. Well.

24:33

The ballot question like. Technically you

24:35

don't are. There is nothing which requires you

24:37

to look in. Which. We say like.

24:40

Yeah. Forget this feedback that early. the maybe

24:42

should revisit that sorry like stripped away on

24:44

the lock in both it and said hey

24:46

if you can. Use the tool.

24:49

Without. A login that is technically

24:51

required. Let's. Do it like it's the

24:53

least friction the a half. When. We want

24:55

to have people down on himself to than it. So.

24:59

Be removed that so you can still to this

25:01

day it down the drain cause to use the

25:03

app. And then you find yourself in that

25:05

didn't need to look in. We. Only require

25:07

lock him and is technically required. So when

25:09

you don't have people up the end there

25:11

is a question like what can you actually

25:13

track. So. The second question, we ask ourselves,

25:15

what are we actually interested Then. We.

25:18

Very much builds by intuition.

25:21

They. We wanna see and in connect

25:23

with people what you want build. And

25:25

so did that go beyond the most important metric want

25:28

to have who just wanna know how many users use

25:30

or a gloss on a daily basis like as a

25:32

tool to use every day is who wants us know

25:34

how me that act If he was we have. A

25:37

me said like for us not important who

25:39

this person is. If is a

25:42

daily active users. That's all we care about.

25:44

Soured analytics Completely anonymous. We don't know who

25:46

this person is that we track. We.

25:49

Have very little product metrics.

25:51

We. Still had stayed mostly caring about

25:53

daily active users. And the

25:56

now that we also revenue. He.

25:58

Always a have a bit of different maximum

26:00

since they're like was revenue that's like for

26:02

the business which is also an hour manifest

26:04

We wanted to mention early on that business.

26:06

Something. We want to build a business about. One

26:09

who beat France pound around as. Was.

26:11

Revenue you obviously have like other ways

26:14

to measure but then as what really

26:16

matters is like okay. How

26:18

many paid uses you have to this

26:20

day with you Like thus the revenue

26:22

crow. For. All of that we don't need

26:25

to know the individual person. We just want to

26:27

make sure. That. We know the data

26:29

and for the product metrics us most important

26:31

for us to know. How we can

26:33

improve the tool. Like. Do people use

26:35

this feature of yes, know? So

26:38

we remove to feature. Is. It heavily

26:40

used how have a is used? What are the

26:42

top features? We as. So. We have

26:44

those those things and then can work with our

26:46

intuition and was all the feedback we receiving. To.

26:49

X Reform. Our. Roadmap, so

26:51

be not really like a super data

26:53

driven company, at least for now. And

26:56

and rather than one a half like. Side.

26:59

Were touched when that be going in the right direct from

27:01

I'd so I see. Analytics or something

27:03

like. I doing the right things? Are

27:05

you going in the right direction? To.

27:07

The things work exley. And

27:10

and for that we think like. Privacy.

27:13

Is a big topic because we want to make sure.

27:15

That. People can use us and our confidence

27:17

is us using them. How. Do

27:20

you then tattoos are So if you if

27:22

you don't collect a lot of data how

27:24

then do you keep in touch point to.

27:27

Real. People. And What? This?

27:30

As a mess with freeway slick one

27:32

we have an inept. Feedback.

27:34

Mechanism so you type in, send feedback

27:36

and re cost. Since. An email to

27:38

us. We. Answer every email we

27:40

get. Everything we get you will hear from

27:43

us. I'm even though that sometimes is.

27:45

The answer is like yeah Thanks for the feedback

27:47

we are building at. Even that

27:49

is a single valid answer. Cousins

27:51

transparency. That. Is the First

27:53

Way which is heavily use all

27:55

the feedback we collect throughout the

27:57

day and send the Daily Digest.

28:00

In the morning to the entire team so everybody

28:02

can stay on top of things. And

28:04

the interesting piece there. Is.

28:06

That everybody surrounds himself constantly

28:08

was feedback. When the web

28:10

and features that can extract information the

28:13

need for their features. And then

28:15

can bring that into that they the decisions.

28:17

That. Like one loop that be have the other

28:20

one. We have this like we have. Almost.

28:22

Twenty thousand people and the slack

28:24

community Sophie go to write gossip

28:26

com/community You can come and join

28:28

us in the community. We. Basic.

28:30

constantly telling their people are ask

28:33

questions we are entering. It's the

28:35

direct this way to reach out to us so

28:37

you can literally the am the until a team.

28:40

Please Don't Do This. The

28:43

last lady other on his Us Twitter

28:45

so we tweet everything we built. We

28:47

oftentimes tried to share how we build

28:49

something or why we it and trying

28:51

to be transparent. Because. At

28:53

the hard we are build or thrive like me

28:55

do the stuff because we love building the product.

28:58

And. We wanna say why we doing

29:00

certain things. And then also

29:02

people are equally excited about as and

29:04

reach out to us on twitter was questions.

29:07

Opinions. Idea Earth. And

29:09

we love seeing all of that. At the

29:12

moment, there's a lot of sound designers

29:14

poking around with concepts for rey cause

29:16

virus. Which. Is something we started working

29:18

on. So. It's extremely cool to

29:20

see. South. Ram people on

29:22

the internet exploring ideas how right us

29:24

could work. And I was. Which.

29:26

Is something we explore ourselves. but it's like really

29:28

nice to see that. That. People think

29:31

alike while think creatively outside of

29:33

the box. I guess the

29:35

the real nuggets there is is how do

29:37

you you know. How do

29:39

you get the right kind of information

29:42

to lead right? You can have my

29:44

community, You can have analytics, You can

29:46

have more or less data from application.

29:48

This just garner-only and ultimately would you

29:50

wanna know is are you doing the

29:52

right kind of thing. right? How

29:55

do you? How do you feel you're doing

29:57

on that? If you're if you're grading yourself,

29:59

if you're the teacher yourself. So the speaking

30:01

you're giving us have a great honey. So

30:03

you're doing in terms of meeting. What?

30:06

Your. Your. Person is ours.

30:08

I supposed to use you all lead by

30:10

what you want to build but the same

30:12

time you are a business in your growing

30:14

it honey for you're doing on the on

30:16

the skill of building the right thing or

30:18

not. They're. So. Good

30:21

question. I. Think First of all

30:23

you need to define what is good and

30:25

where you wanna go. Right on. The thing

30:27

that's the first the to. Continue.

30:29

To think about. Center. Really was

30:31

like sort of what we build a

30:33

company and the business and everything. We.

30:36

All the say. Wanna. Get more users.

30:38

We wanna make more revenue and broad

30:40

strokes. But. An interesting, less. Revenue.

30:44

Is more the outcome Rights of

30:46

Revenue is actually the very fire.

30:49

Is. It doing well. And even if it

30:51

don't have revenue which we didn't have for long time.

30:54

You crowing User base is.

30:56

The. Outcome: If you do it well. Suited.

30:59

As far as like early on it

31:01

was like clear like save our user

31:03

base growth. We. Doing something

31:05

well because people. Enjoy!

31:07

Using the tool. People. Stick

31:09

with the tool. Ah, people

31:11

recommended to other people all of

31:13

those things. Basic. A leading

31:15

to as you are a user base

31:17

crows. So. I think that's the best indicator

31:20

and is a very. Easy indicated

31:22

of Gatorade so you don't need much

31:24

to get this information. And

31:26

then you can sing about okay when business

31:28

the outcome, What? Actually, variables

31:30

to move this right? There. Is

31:32

one thing you can be more features. Sure. Ah

31:35

the other thing is like you can

31:37

told more are better about it. Which.

31:39

Is I think sometimes. Especially

31:41

was early stage company is undervalued.

31:44

On Because oftentimes it is not

31:46

about having more features, it may

31:48

be presenting it better. Was.

31:51

Building. Like more for prance around to

31:54

product. Which. We I think. Early

31:56

on. sort of picked up. We.

31:58

Always were very. The about. The.

32:01

Sign in general and. And. How we

32:03

talk about the prime than really thought about it as

32:05

well as a brand in a sort of a movement.

32:08

Like. Hey we have here. To like.

32:10

Give. You time back to make you more

32:12

productive to. Keep. You in the slow.

32:15

And so bad results. Oftentimes true

32:17

inspirations outside of tech like looking

32:20

into prance that actually advertise and

32:22

how they do it and how

32:24

to build. Had a

32:26

gated basically get people excited about this.

32:28

Setting. That's one of the things that over

32:30

that the hears like me now four years in

32:32

which kind of crazy when i think back. But

32:36

over the time. As any got

32:38

better and better. We. Always in north at

32:40

the end said oh it does Always something you can

32:42

do better. But. The thing we

32:44

understand more. What? People are

32:46

interests then would be interested in what we

32:48

could add. would we not so good at

32:50

and how we want to distinguish ourselves. And.

32:53

As into the constant evolution like

32:55

to. Figure. Something out and

32:57

then you. Get. Better and

32:59

better and better. I'm a huge

33:01

fan of light compound effect like

33:03

every tree to put out. Every

33:06

release you do. Have Buck

33:08

Sixty do every. Podcast.

33:11

The parents who do. All. Of

33:13

those little things when you looking at that. Isolated.

33:16

Yeah. They don't. Move much. But.

33:18

When you release every two weeks. When.

33:20

He tweets multiple times a week.

33:23

When. You do more of those things. Those.

33:25

Things were to make a difference by this

33:27

and us very very hard to be consistent

33:29

rather than half this momentum. Which.

33:31

Is like often times where we feel. Where.

33:34

We really strike when behalf this woman too

33:36

many seats us like how. The. Entire

33:39

team community, Gets. Really

33:41

passionate excited about it. That's a best times

33:43

but it's so hot getting into the state

33:45

and it's so easy getting out of the

33:47

state and I think we all have experienced

33:49

this in one or the other way. Absolutely

33:51

how big is the team now

33:53

Days like how hard is it

33:56

to keep x number of people

33:58

motivated? Yes, it is is also

34:00

something it seems quite rapidly so

34:02

we. Novices: Dot A Twenty Twenty

34:04

Two The two of us. As

34:06

in, we ended twenty twenty with Five. Then.

34:09

We went up to ten. And

34:11

the nowadays we since this week with

34:13

Twenty seven. So. The team crew

34:15

by quite a lot. Ah

34:17

my! Oftentimes is quite the team as

34:20

one product him like we have basic

34:22

a majority of people engineers and designers.

34:25

And. We. Were very

34:27

highly product driven company so

34:29

we. Basically. All our efforts

34:31

going to products. Since. Reason that

34:34

we have a team called Hype. Which.

34:36

Is like a mix of a marketing and

34:38

crosse team. Said they. The. First Team

34:40

we've found ourselves and said a fracas

34:42

which doesn't actively fill the product. But.

34:45

At Talk about a product. Which. Was

34:47

something which was always a bit of a

34:49

sad responsibility but over time have figured out

34:51

this is so crucial. To the success

34:53

that we wanted to have. That. We

34:56

talk about a product of petrol is

34:58

leading that. You. Might seem and on you

35:00

tube. You. To became a big pile

35:02

of the strategy. And how

35:04

to keep all his people motivated. I

35:07

think it's us like. Go. Forward

35:09

and keep this momentum as soon

35:11

as you move. It

35:14

doesn't matter. How big the company

35:16

is if there is movement. As. Soon

35:18

as the movement slows down and was be

35:20

a company says overseas easier because it's just

35:23

a big a mass to move. But.

35:25

As soon as it slows down, I

35:27

feel like it sometimes use loses the

35:30

culture of like. Oh how quickly

35:32

we can get this out or Tembisa but

35:34

next week. Was like today.

35:36

like. Fixing. A buck right

35:38

off the release than like mitt the hot sex.

35:41

I got of those a little things builders really

35:43

culture of like. Hey, we want to just.

35:45

Keep. Doing keep build and keep moving

35:48

forward and as like you'd need to keep

35:50

the urgency no matter how big the to

35:52

miss a thing as soon as the urgency

35:54

goes away. Everything like becomes

35:57

a bit harder to do. How

35:59

does it. What's your practical

36:01

way is keeping the urgency. Is

36:04

it a must ship by Friday? Is.

36:06

It's like you said, every two weeks

36:08

we're releasing. Like, how do you maintain

36:10

a level of urgency? Yes sir, We

36:13

sip every two weeks. So therefore. We.

36:15

Also want to highlight of seats for every two weeks

36:17

so we have if you look an hour train slug.

36:20

You. See Basically there was a was one

36:22

highlighted feature which is something very visceral.

36:25

And to be. Need. To

36:27

have something every two weeks so there was a

36:29

bit of plenty balls. Were we say okay? We.

36:32

Have often times many projects in parallel.

36:35

With protests and never really know when

36:37

they're finished. cried and so we started

36:40

Brookside to then over time. They.

36:42

Get to the finish line and then with usually.

36:44

Say. Okay, which release can be target?

36:47

So at some point we have sort of

36:49

a target in this release. And. Then

36:51

we work to with stat. And. Then the

36:53

team than best he say a pet are things

36:55

we not shipping and the relays and reduce the

36:57

scope. Of. We make sure to make the caught.

37:00

And so is that. I think he always have

37:02

this thinking like okay, what do we released this

37:04

week? What release in two weeks? What were these

37:07

end of the month. And attitude

37:09

is long enough. everybody on the gets into

37:11

the same thing. That's one of the things

37:13

that we do which works well for us,

37:15

but it needs a bit of coordination like

37:17

every now and then you see like always

37:19

ship. Suspect. And was three weeks

37:21

because like out the thing was bit lower. And.

37:24

That's fine, but I think that's that's one of

37:26

the the things. The. Other thing we

37:28

have this them we're using all right

37:30

cause so we experiment All the features

37:32

ourselves have like nightly builds. For.

37:35

Every day you have a new version of

37:37

for cost so even though some features come

37:39

out later we testing them into only for

37:41

Wilde. Which. Is also like if you

37:44

see something or with coming in and the

37:46

tool everyday it's kinda nice to see like

37:48

odors progress. Wagga say as

37:50

a as a user for a cast I

37:52

don't see that momentum. Okay, and

37:54

I'm a minute negatively. And I mean

37:56

that's like now that you've got to say team. Pitches.

37:59

Don't. The job I love the work is don't

38:01

I think the worth it's happening on you tube

38:03

spot on like it. Whatever you do on their

38:05

keep doing it doubled down especially if it's move

38:07

the needle in you're measuring it and what I

38:09

mean by. I. Don't see it is

38:12

not that I don't see a great tool

38:14

to use is that I'm not seen. Behind

38:16

the scenes or even some sort of middle

38:19

seen like the blog isn't very frequent. I

38:21

don't know where to check as a user

38:23

to pay attention to the to the activity

38:25

of the the focus. As you said on

38:28

prior to focus on comments on the urgency

38:30

you're saying that. But. I

38:32

like to see a for you to bring that

38:34

out into the world and so which. As

38:36

as as a diehard fan over a cast

38:39

and somebody who wants to pay attention to

38:41

the Neil moving, how can I do that?

38:43

In what ways can I do that? Yeah,

38:45

I think that eases. islam. To.

38:47

Twitter like. That's why we most active.

38:50

That's where we're. Always to.

38:52

It's something that's how they put out the that

38:54

same smoked a missile stuff. Was. Quite

38:56

interesting with the events and they're like I

38:58

can see that as sometimes. Too

39:00

much focus into the building where

39:02

some things we. Might be not

39:04

sharing and we basically to dedicated to that.

39:07

Bird. Like the easiest one is like going

39:09

on on twitter. I think that's where. Most.

39:11

of the information gets into. Was.

39:14

Due to would be doing nowadays. We.

39:16

Find ourselves the not always the to release

39:18

something new to talk about. Something like to

39:20

play. Guess who mentioned earlier this? so many

39:22

features in there so there might be things

39:25

that we can just use straight away and

39:27

talk about. and we have already in the

39:29

products so that we don't really need to

39:31

sell something new to talk about it. While

39:47

counselors develop, a week is over. But

39:49

there is so much to cover from

39:51

that week and I'm here to give

39:53

you a round up. So eerie. Go

39:56

there for distributed surplus database the one

39:58

when ga it now suppose. Twenty

40:00

two bytes of data and the

40:02

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you know that must be workers

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40:13

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Hyperdrive. Zero. Yes, zero

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East be client the also have

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the ability to. Delays.

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Yes the At A Delays workers

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Alex engine was revised analytics as

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scale footed years which to be

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let's explore all the hosted miles

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41:57

at Claflin I Com/develop a week.

42:00

Once again, claflin.com flash developer. So

42:16

what I did notice is that you have

42:18

you very nice teams long and I think

42:20

that's a linear popularized beautiful scene was like

42:22

this or think you may have follow their

42:25

lead as a good friends there at linear

42:27

and are so I guess that's one way

42:29

to it is is what's on Twitter. Now

42:32

I'm not against twitter actually acts by any

42:34

means but I'm not on there anymore like

42:36

I was before. To follow

42:38

a brands. Updates.

42:41

List to say. And. So I

42:43

feel like what you've done you with

42:45

the cheese on is pretty cool. However

42:47

I gotta go to it's vs it.

42:49

Come the me or for it defy

42:51

me. To. Tell me all the cool things are doing

42:54

so that's that's where I want to fund the Gap. Would you think

42:56

about that? Yeah, node is a good

42:58

good point. I think that's harder and harder. Read:

43:01

Sing People nowadays because it's so

43:03

pressure and that rights bill humans

43:05

like twitter or acts. Are

43:07

smarter the on threats whatever for everybody.

43:10

Had sex something different. We've been on

43:12

and on acts a twitter since the

43:14

beginning so we have. Quite.

43:16

As of sense of followers up there. And

43:18

this is like sort of still our would

43:21

star a t where we communicate with people

43:23

but we try to fragment that a bit

43:25

so we pranced out to you tube as

43:27

he chatted about this is like we talk

43:29

about releases but also more about other content

43:32

says like about features that we have well

43:34

liked how to use rey cause in to

43:36

see also people how they it was right

43:38

cause it's. Not. Just about

43:40

the product announcements. We.

43:43

Try to remember our block at the moment, even

43:45

so, that's a sin way. Also, need to go

43:47

with hours as this kind of stuff it's a

43:49

bit easier for people who stand top off. On

43:52

and will be doing now is also

43:54

be bambee how email newsletter this one

43:56

this i quite interesting. As

43:59

in response from the gwen. There we don't wanna

44:01

spam people right? Nobody likes of full

44:03

in books. So. We're doing this just one

44:05

of the month. And. It's more like a

44:07

recap like hey, what happened at Ray clustering

44:10

mom. Who. Mention what were released,

44:12

Who. Medicine you people join mention anything

44:14

else that popped up. And

44:17

Id and website this fun category what's

44:19

called team picks so it's just like

44:21

everybody and a team like sometimes experience

44:23

of the new the made by something

44:25

I do different than. So. We

44:28

just sat from our personal lives. essentially

44:30

things like. Sometimes. Error: Which

44:32

board game somebody played recently of stuff

44:34

that made it a bit more human

44:36

than not just about eight years old

44:38

and new stuff. And you can

44:41

become but whoring? This. Might be

44:43

a challenge or thing for everybody is how do

44:45

you have an active. Connection.

44:48

Right to your audience. Who wants to

44:50

lurk slice? Listen frequently. And.

44:52

I think that and act of blog is more

44:54

way. I. Think an active blog

44:56

that isn't robotic like a brand blog, but

44:58

more of like a branded. Person.

45:01

All natured written blog. You know it's

45:03

written by a person is not. Recast.

45:06

The brand and it's just like something that's

45:08

a bit more connected. And. Then obviously

45:10

you know I think for me as this is

45:13

gonna go one way or deeper but I just

45:15

went to Twitter Now it's actually called the Twitter

45:17

app on Mac O S. All the enough is

45:19

not the X F as the twitter app. So.

45:22

That's why this Constance ebb and flow

45:24

of what does it actually called continues

45:26

because nobody gets it. But why go

45:28

to my note of this: Were driving

45:31

away from Twitter Sly Sex. Is

45:33

that when I go to my notifications and

45:35

this is not a Thomas problem or a

45:38

Rake has problem this is a I think

45:40

everybody problem. My notifications are no her mind

45:42

like the first one in here is Elon

45:44

Musk posted. Something. In

45:46

my notifications and then somebody name Armand

45:48

who I follow. I'm sure maybe I

45:50

don't follow me double checked luggage these

45:52

things that are not even and even

45:54

fall. this person through my notifications with

45:56

is like Star Thing and Dax and

45:58

Risks and and. Hell, he Hightower some

46:01

had to pay attention to, but not

46:03

like this. The Prime Again, Christian Lampre

46:05

like other people are. Like all my

46:07

notifications, I find that Twitter Now is

46:09

so. Noisy. Like.

46:11

I want a I want to keep connect

46:13

with people in the high signal look low

46:15

noise. Ratio. The way and

46:18

there really is no right way to do

46:20

that. You can publish newsletter. Maybe that. I

46:22

see nothing though, because like all. In.

46:24

A Maybe you can discomfort your. Your.

46:27

Team Lot a newsletter were blog post that's

46:29

more ways to sort of tap into people.

46:32

As. A What I. Was. Oom out

46:34

though and and suggests or

46:36

desire. Especially. As somebody

46:38

who run something and somebody who consumes

46:40

things is as I believe in the

46:42

hub and spoke model. We're. Sort

46:44

of hanging out with your. Best. Content

46:47

basically to said on a spoke,

46:49

not a hub. Sunita. Hub

46:51

as recast, ran recast orchestrated he plays

46:53

Reagan. Go and check out and as

46:56

browse or subscribe to any push that

46:58

stuff out the everywhere else as necessary.

47:00

I think you need to go back

47:02

at Hub Model. We. Have spoken

47:05

to hub and right now you're

47:07

treating Twitter. Like. The mean place

47:09

but not everybody's there's you're missing out.

47:11

You're missing out. The me entertained and

47:14

least that serves. Yeah, I think there's

47:16

also a single center. A problem with

47:18

some. Other social media bids because

47:20

it's marry sought lift. So when you put.

47:22

Out, let's say a tweet today. It's.

47:25

Forgotten about tomorrow, right? So.

47:27

This. Is why for combo experiment was

47:29

here too because as either lox much

47:32

slower. Lifetime. And that

47:34

were similar. There are proposals and stuff.

47:36

they can be read. Surveys that can

47:38

be found again. There's. A

47:40

bit different think there's like, etc

47:42

content saints. Quite. A lot.

47:45

Also. Like the style of Clinton

47:47

on video is much more prominent nowadays

47:49

fits when years as they have like

47:51

a visual prend quite nicely because f

47:53

something to so and talking about the

47:56

thing this also interesting when a real.

47:59

Thing. About a different. Well. What

48:01

medium do they used to showcase himself

48:03

on? And be quite

48:05

different I don't imagine will solve your keeping

48:08

connected. Prob me on the podcast I do

48:10

want to mention because. I

48:12

just I do wanna pay attention and

48:14

I think what? What? Is

48:16

on your cheese on it is

48:18

mostly. When. I want to hear.

48:21

But. It doesn't feel like a guide

48:23

through the bi weekly caden so

48:25

to speak. Of this momentum

48:27

harkening back to you know the inception

48:30

of this part of the conversation as

48:32

you know how you keep a team

48:34

of eggs most motivated, the urgency in

48:36

your time i really cycles of every

48:39

two weeks and as a daily active

48:41

user over a cast in a pain

48:43

user. I. Just mentioned, I don't see

48:45

it in I'd like to see. I like to find a

48:47

way to see it. In a

48:49

way that doesn't seem my app experience in

48:51

others. One application called Warped that I love.

48:55

And I'll have you know you if you use

48:57

the terminal application called work on Mac O S.

48:59

I love that application. I'm a big fan of

49:01

them and their team. I'm not

49:03

a fan of how loud it is. When

49:05

they have updates, it's very loud. It's it.

49:07

I did and my turn to be simple

49:10

minimalist. don't bother me, you can tell me.

49:12

But that as an example of. What?

49:14

I would consider way too loud of telling

49:16

me about your updates like I don't need

49:19

to know every tiny bug fix. our know

49:21

about the important things not the you think

49:23

it's important things. first this doesn't doesn't seem

49:26

right as soon as it's ready to away

49:28

the work in the don't want to be

49:30

disrupted by any updates when it's right for

49:32

that reason x The. Build. Our

49:34

own app above data that works in

49:37

the background and says like pincer hey,

49:39

here's something new you might be interested,

49:41

but it all happens automatically. An

49:43

ad. It's all pretty much in the background.

49:45

They don't need a terrible that. Will

49:48

give the single egg if it's a tool that he is. Constantly.

49:51

Every day. You just wanna

49:53

be bothered updating. I suspect a thing

49:55

of the past and of in a

49:57

way subtle nudges. I like subtle noses.

50:00

As an Asian user, Of. Change

50:02

Like I don't mind scenes. I don't

50:04

mind even knowing there's not date. I

50:06

believe A mind. Pausing.

50:08

My work flow if it makes sense than

50:10

the do it. But. Tell me

50:12

in a subtle way a color change

50:15

a a small thing in the interface

50:17

that that is subtly different than it

50:19

had been. Mom's. Beforehand as modify

50:21

to mention the email feature the

50:23

send feedback feature. And

50:25

out while you're here. Talk and I

50:28

just quietly. Sent. An email off

50:30

to your team and says he. Ah,

50:32

And Pakistan real Thomas on the cheese

50:34

like eve of the group. Great work.

50:36

And then Daniel and let's raise his

50:38

last name said Carol? maybe. Ah

50:40

and Remains or a cast response A

50:42

How To Thomas for Me And by

50:44

the way, when you're done podcasting, please

50:47

run the check for updates Command to

50:49

get recasts latest version: One Point Seven

50:51

One.one. And. The and so I

50:53

did that I don't even know there was a check for updates.

50:56

Command and I did that So like I

50:58

had a daily active user. There's a new

51:00

of the every cast and is barely even

51:02

telling me and it's a positive thing is

51:04

I if I've never had a pause and

51:06

say is my recast updated it's just always

51:08

been. The recast I know

51:10

loves I am. And praising you

51:13

for that. Subtle. Way of up in

51:15

your application. That's the way to do it. The we're doing

51:17

is the right way. That's good to

51:19

know those us moink have a it is

51:21

what Daniel Daniel men slid to you. We

51:23

had bought in like an earlier version. One

51:26

point, six and nine. Which. Basically

51:28

pro go app up there are

51:30

so now. We. Have a lot

51:32

of users that are outdated and with sort

51:34

of need to read them somehow of like

51:36

I believe. Runs I fab. That's

51:39

a get on the latest out as so

51:41

yeah, this happened like minutes away. Likely you'd

51:43

figure that out this week than recorded. We.

51:46

And I We spoke about it on Twitter today as

51:48

well. As. One of those things

51:50

that unfortunate happened was assembled copy paste

51:52

around the code which was miss. And

51:55

so now it's as they need to make. sort of

51:57

people get to the latest version. So. Yeah

51:59

that. Sec. Wow that's so

52:01

alive. So prepared Now was assessed.

52:04

So do you have a large population

52:07

of user base that essentially can't be

52:09

talked to cause there's no updates? They

52:11

can get the updates and was happening

52:14

so that's a tricky bit. So basically

52:16

amends like be updating the up in

52:18

the background and it is happens automatically.

52:21

So. Now what it is de Las Vegas

52:23

broken that it busy doesn't check for the

52:25

update. On. One point, Six

52:28

Nine. Which. Means like with, they'd allow

52:30

the button one point seven. Seventy.

52:32

Because. We'd know when this ship a new

52:34

version. Fifty percent of the uses up said

52:36

nothing the first twenty four hours or so

52:38

so he extremely have a high adoption of

52:40

like updates. And so. We

52:43

noted that someone like with getting

52:45

feature requests. That. Be has six than in

52:47

the a worse than. As i something seems

52:50

off and then be tactical I go. Like.

52:52

Many people are still on the old worsen

52:54

and so we figured out one one. So.

52:57

Basically, people can update so they need

52:59

to manually run it if you ride

53:01

manually. Then it up. that's the app which

53:03

is good. But. We need to tell

53:05

people and coming back to when we talked about

53:07

before. Privacy. Ride so.

53:10

We. Don't know who are is people

53:12

we don't have a lock in the recon.

53:14

Send them an email and so we try

53:17

to find creative ways. To. Reads as

53:19

many people as we can. So. Quite

53:21

finally mentioning it yourself. Yeah, make

53:23

sure that everybody gets back into

53:25

the auto updating scale. feals get

53:27

that have been spoken in place.

53:29

That way, least minimize your Euro

53:31

disconnection accessing your. Ah, yes, the

53:33

communication is really key, right? So.

53:36

For things to go well but all those things

53:38

don't go well for sure your they want to

53:40

have that in place so do you don't even

53:42

have the email address? have any of users like

53:44

is usually of and have them logging as you

53:46

have you have no information to reach you know.

53:49

The. General free population that uses

53:51

recast. Yes, We have

53:54

like a big email

53:56

newsletter. Which. Arguably

53:58

are a lot of users. That we

54:00

can reach those. Bugs.

54:02

Me: not every user is lock them so not

54:04

every user we know the email of Survivor. I

54:06

don't actually know how on what's the ratio of

54:09

it that would need to check. but yeah so

54:11

this is. I got an interest in talents we

54:13

need to overcome the the next couple of days.

54:16

It's interesting to think about the

54:18

problem said, because hopefully this is

54:20

probably never happens again. But.

54:22

You know in terms of the updating getting broken

54:25

but if it does and you have up the

54:27

frequency you a sense you wanna have. Some.

54:29

Sort of logic in the application says

54:32

I haven't been updated in a beyond

54:34

the normal ratio of of updates or

54:36

frequency of updates. See. Kind of

54:38

want to have in as some sort of second

54:41

as I can might be stale. Yes so the

54:43

net the a few and residents and. Arrows

54:45

happen right sooner or later. Any era

54:47

your medicine will happen right? So.

54:50

That's fine, I thing it's much more important

54:52

having. Mechanisms. In place

54:54

to recover. From. Those things right, And

54:56

this test of of the case of that particular.

54:59

Quite. Nasty because. It's

55:01

as upset as sip the Sept Nine

55:03

recon Three bothered, right? Like with web,

55:05

Okay, you refresh the page non. Western

55:08

of applicants that unfortunate isn't the

55:10

to. So. It was

55:13

quite cool to see our greatest team got like

55:15

out a ways that we can sort of up

55:17

they'd and I've house and me communicate how do

55:19

we read so many people as possible but also

55:21

how do we know the no way people that

55:23

has been updating so finding like good way to

55:25

in dad is that it's a bit of a

55:28

challenge for a threat now but I'm sure we'll

55:30

figure it out. By. Adding and also

55:32

liked us going forward. That.

55:34

Gets an incident finding ways to like recover

55:36

from that in the future. So it's to

55:38

ever happens again that you have a way

55:40

to sell I pay x the at that

55:42

that up they the app an episode of.

55:45

A. Mechanism in place for this to make

55:47

sure. That. This will not

55:49

happen again. This incident. So. It was the

55:51

auto update or code at the Gods. Copy

55:54

paste is essentially that's what happened. The auto

55:56

Update: Here's what's not. So. The

55:58

one saying that you have employees. The like

56:00

know. If. There's an update. You.

56:03

Simply have a bat signal in your application.

56:05

Seeing a a slightly uneven update but that

56:07

best in like it's the lights, broken eggs

56:10

like let his legacy the line of code

56:12

as it always is right? There

56:15

though, things happen unfortunately. But.

56:17

We. Do our best to get everybody back

56:19

on track and that people run at Mandalay.

56:22

That. Is ever that works for that's that's a

56:24

good thing about it. Will Maybe I was running

56:26

one point, six nine it on these be updating

56:28

to one point seven one.yeah maybe that's why you

56:31

are missing the moment or may not have been

56:33

ironed out now. another know. A

56:35

deal of the moments in the and I think in a will

56:37

were camping out on for a little bit. Here I think is.

56:40

Is how do you? How do you lead? Now.

56:43

Is is a team in terms of mental. And

56:46

urgency. But then how do you

56:48

gain the right kind of feedback from. The.

56:50

Police of users that she serves. To.

56:53

Keep building the right car pratt. I

56:56

am in the struggle. Any founder has any

56:58

Ceo as as like are we but in

57:00

the right thing at the right time. In.

57:03

The right quality. Of. Measures that

57:05

we adhere to, etc, Do.

57:07

We have the right amount of people to be to have

57:09

less to have more. Do. Either have a

57:11

in isolated hi team vs. everyone sort of

57:13

has this you know ad hoc marketing job

57:16

and I think you've done it right. And

57:18

in the Java Peters Dornan as a team

57:20

sees you working to me. Ah

57:22

you know so I think we're looking

57:24

at as the different scene was you

57:26

take in as a leader to say

57:29

this is the right direction it seems

57:31

like to me. You've. All

57:33

been really focused on artificial

57:35

intelligence. Different A and Prompts

57:37

even have a thing an

57:39

entire website. As dedicated to

57:41

like prompts of the what is the will

57:43

of the Euro for this thing of thing.

57:45

it's like prompts.radar so. It's

57:47

out s L pop

57:49

Prompts.ray.as oh. And I

57:52

this kind of cool. I am. I

57:54

think there's lots of different prompt engineering.

57:56

Nothing we've seen the way of prompt

57:58

engineers go. where we thought. Initially,

58:00

When a i was becoming hot that. prompt,

58:03

Engineering would become a new jobs hell

58:05

I think that's gone by the wayside,

58:07

basically replaced by things like prompts, Actually,

58:10

I'm I'm sorry, let me try to. It's prompts,

58:12

Plural. Dot Re.sl said to

58:15

clarify that. But. Yeah, so

58:17

Europe and zooming out back in two we

58:19

are focusing on is like it seems like

58:21

you're focused on artificial intelligence? Is that what's

58:23

been giving you the most signal to noise

58:25

ratio in terms of like what the build

58:28

and what you've been personally getting the most

58:30

value out of with recast. Yeah

58:32

so. That's. Always the

58:34

trickiest question like what to build? Try

58:36

it on. Because. There's.

58:39

Almost. An infinite amount of stuff

58:41

you can help. And so I've

58:43

been at Ensnare right? and of

58:45

there is something interesting which I

58:47

still struggle with. but if it

58:49

ensnare. Yeah, it's really. Tight.

58:52

Feedback Loop Be a build something. You.

58:55

Compile. Which. Is the first

58:57

test. And then it passed feature

58:59

at works and that disappeared. Which.

59:02

Is a really good because the feedback

59:04

movies the sense seconds right though the

59:06

really really sort feedback loop. It's.

59:09

A Like a founder or and not necessarily

59:11

it's as the founder. if you work on

59:13

something bigger to seedbed, no business. Second, that

59:15

might be months or even ears depending on

59:17

what you do in. Through. It's

59:20

a it's really really hard to

59:22

know what you build. And

59:24

if that is so right thing to build because

59:26

you'd never really know. Even if

59:28

some segments may be so you do,

59:30

it's it's correct. It. Might be not.

59:33

So. What we always dad's and to steal

59:35

anything and i've seen working for for me

59:37

and my and else and away like we

59:40

were always go and where we got the

59:42

strongest pull from. Where we

59:44

see that people are center interesting

59:46

than something. they keep asking us

59:48

about. Something that's what we're doing.

59:51

And then you see offered them a small on

59:53

board. What pool of sad so. Bad

59:55

that Basic is proud us to I so

59:57

and twenty twenty two right and going into

59:59

the to try to be t came around.

1:00:02

With. Suddenly changed the whole industry.

1:00:04

I think nobody. And I. At

1:00:07

least Matthau hasn't really seen that comment

1:00:09

or even remember. And twenty twenty we

1:00:12

had like machine learning. Start.

1:00:14

Ups in our Y C bachelor thought myself

1:00:16

that oh machine learning added to sing but

1:00:18

been around for ten years but never really

1:00:20

left up to his promos. Let's see where

1:00:22

they are. So now they're replicate so they're

1:00:25

twins I think quite well was all the

1:00:27

the wave of Ai right now with all

1:00:29

the bottles, the host and and so on

1:00:31

before. So. I think

1:00:33

it's like it took. everybody was surprised and

1:00:35

away. And similarly outside we

1:00:38

had plans we wanna do this and

1:00:40

that And and is that out there

1:00:42

are some dissing. And falls

1:00:44

it made really quickly sleep because

1:00:47

everybody was sort of looking for

1:00:49

textbooks. To insert a prompt.

1:00:52

And as a singlet rey cause. It's

1:00:54

a textbook. Plant is available everywhere. So.

1:00:57

That said, like a really really good fit. So

1:00:59

we put one in one together. Quickly.

1:01:01

Ship like a beater. Saw. Like

1:01:04

huge interested the weightless from one day

1:01:06

to another. Which. Gave us confidence

1:01:08

that out there is something that's go

1:01:10

for that. Is basically turned and also

1:01:12

to right cause Pro. Which. We launched

1:01:14

May last year. It's almost a year ago.

1:01:17

And will be launched it. Said.

1:01:20

Was ordered a moment when we launched monitor say

1:01:22

son. And. Launching one of the season

1:01:24

is this really weird, scary thing like we

1:01:26

had for three years look really monetized. We.

1:01:29

Put it out that the pro plan asking

1:01:31

people for pain for. And were

1:01:33

quite surprised by the response because from

1:01:35

day one there was like a huge

1:01:37

interest in it and with like oh

1:01:40

okay. That's. Like what

1:01:42

he hoped for. But. You never read

1:01:44

his think this will happen right? which is

1:01:46

another thing. Like basically we got confidence. That.

1:01:48

Is is like a right direction to go for

1:01:51

us and guts again like so where the pool

1:01:53

is coming from. One went and. And.

1:01:55

So. Over time we bases

1:01:57

okay. There's high demand for that and.

1:02:00

And then we were just working with a community

1:02:02

closer to get a what the actually won a

1:02:04

half from Ray coast and a I. Together.

1:02:07

And Athena to things like one.

1:02:10

They. Want to have similar what we did

1:02:12

miss extensions way have access to so

1:02:14

many tools. Across all the

1:02:16

other things you have almond combined and

1:02:19

in one interface is this at of

1:02:21

want to have the same experience with

1:02:23

A. Because. There's so many

1:02:25

different the I model staff or benefits but

1:02:27

the radio on they use them. The.

1:02:29

Same way with one app for that would

1:02:32

be trusted. We released. And. Profit Complexity

1:02:34

Open A I models that all of in

1:02:36

the same you. I can use them on

1:02:38

the same way. And it'd take the model

1:02:41

he will have. And the so

1:02:43

I think over time what we wanna

1:02:45

of what B C is busy happening.

1:02:48

Like. A I got like

1:02:50

a huge for activity booths. too

1:02:52

many people write on paper. the

1:02:54

his copilot. And all other

1:02:56

things and became really quickly or

1:02:58

this for myself to let I

1:03:00

use regularly. And gives

1:03:02

me a lot of well you're my daily

1:03:05

tasks. So. We really will see.

1:03:07

A. I is really most powerful on

1:03:09

the operating system level, where we operate

1:03:12

on right. Though. We want

1:03:14

to make like I'm Dave. Generally.

1:03:16

I accessible across tools that it knows

1:03:18

about you that you can connect to

1:03:20

your tools. To the greedy sits

1:03:22

there. And. Become sort of This a

1:03:24

system that everybody dreams of, right? Like.

1:03:27

The saying that he consulted Vogue and

1:03:29

you can ask questions you get the

1:03:31

answers can perform actions for you. Really?

1:03:33

Like this interface there is always ready

1:03:35

for you. And is always

1:03:37

aware double crossing advisers, tools and

1:03:40

any well. And

1:03:42

I think like we have like quite a nice position.

1:03:45

As the thing about it that we have. One.

1:03:47

In the south and extensions in the store right

1:03:49

now they connect him to or the different tools

1:03:51

which a thing as a t. To. Really

1:03:53

make this. A reality. We

1:03:56

after perfect interface. It's a for merrill

1:03:58

it's it's until before the. Their applications

1:04:00

and I think nobody really is interested

1:04:02

having and they i checked and all

1:04:04

the different software out there. It's

1:04:07

just wanna have one that knows that.

1:04:09

But. Not have a fragmented as we have

1:04:11

nowadays was apps. Because. Whenever you

1:04:14

switch those apps, does things perform

1:04:16

differently? You. Need to pay five

1:04:18

times for the from saying. So.

1:04:20

Me really see ourselves like hey,

1:04:22

that's consolidate that. And become

1:04:24

bases in the face for it. I.

1:04:26

Think the key thing here is like. Not.

1:04:29

Everything needs to be. I don't

1:04:31

many good things that don't require

1:04:33

a I. Would. You want to

1:04:35

keep bride so not at me now do

1:04:37

with and a hardcore perverted become like for

1:04:39

the I trip and. Thing.

1:04:42

Like. Things like would you mentioned earlier was the

1:04:44

launcher and all of those things that like valid

1:04:46

things right. We need them and I see them

1:04:48

as left the building blocks and and you can

1:04:51

build abstracts of on top of that. Some.

1:04:53

Of them might be a i trim on some of

1:04:55

them, might be not. But. They all fit

1:04:57

on the the same nice and prolong for launcher

1:04:59

in the face of a come palette. The C'mon

1:05:02

bar. and that's where my with

1:05:04

see like to think those two things really

1:05:06

nicely come together is where again we see

1:05:08

like people putting us forward than and we

1:05:10

work with some to terrible make it a

1:05:12

happening. He. Mentioned store. I do

1:05:15

want somebody. I have it. I want a pause

1:05:17

and tongue about the store. And.

1:05:19

I want to talk about. How.

1:05:22

Much or it really want. My question is necessarily believe.

1:05:25

How do you have a store? How do

1:05:27

you support. The. Folks in there,

1:05:29

so I'm I guess my questions of my

1:05:31

concerns come around. Like. Had an audio nurses

1:05:34

this as a founder and leader. Comes.

1:05:36

From my usage with Obsidian, there's lots of

1:05:38

really cool extensions that are built on top

1:05:40

of a city and and in like

1:05:42

is you begin to rely upon these things

1:05:45

the code becomes on maintained, goes stale, is

1:05:47

not first party citizens in terms of a

1:05:49

and extension or a store or whatever you

1:05:51

might wanna call in. A however recast

1:05:54

terms these things to help me on terminology

1:05:56

and he caught the stored you com all

1:05:58

extensions of the caught application. You.

1:06:01

Know how do you support our population

1:06:03

of folks who wanna, you know? Dig

1:06:06

deeper and provide value to their

1:06:08

a cast audience. But. The

1:06:10

same time make for those applications as

1:06:12

your to certain standards. Even as you

1:06:14

mentioned before, the brand of recast efficiency,

1:06:17

productivity, native code speed, all these things

1:06:19

sort of. Are. Synonymous with

1:06:21

the recast brand. How. Do you?

1:06:23

are you leave that? well? How do you have a

1:06:25

store? That. Maintains a level

1:06:28

of. I. Guess high quality.

1:06:30

And. And maintain ability. Say.

1:06:32

You must have been talking about ai it so

1:06:35

much lately solicited up with it. will come back

1:06:37

to adore. I do want to have now I

1:06:39

got sisters or know is there is about this

1:06:41

point won't will come with bay I know a

1:06:43

gets so. When. We started

1:06:46

was thinking about. Than

1:06:48

a P I to extend extensions. At.

1:06:50

The same moment we started thinking about

1:06:53

the store. Because. His see like they

1:06:55

go and hand in hand. We. Really want

1:06:57

to build like an end to end

1:06:59

experience seemed about Iowa's like. People.

1:07:01

Can build apps that and popular said. Are.

1:07:04

The people can discover it and could downloaded.

1:07:06

To does is really what be. Did

1:07:09

our sub swell with build an

1:07:11

Ip? I dad lets people build

1:07:13

native extensions with riding React node.

1:07:16

And then we build a store. That.

1:07:18

Those developers can publish their extensions and they

1:07:21

can be discovered and installed. Was the scene

1:07:23

of plate. By. Our array cause

1:07:25

users. Do we wanna make

1:07:27

the the rated nights like the really

1:07:30

easy eco system. So. I was the first

1:07:32

thing. But. Any was very clear to us

1:07:34

like. Does. Extensions become core part

1:07:36

of what rey cause it's. So.

1:07:39

We wanted to make for a day. Extremely.

1:07:42

Well designed to the have a good you

1:07:44

accept that fast that reliable. And.

1:07:47

Over and over again we came back

1:07:49

to like yeah this basically means and

1:07:51

to do a review process of extensions

1:07:53

and nobody really likes review process of

1:07:55

right there is enough housing, passing on

1:07:57

apple and other of those bad for.

1:08:00

The day and the gate keeping this kind of thing.

1:08:02

So. We thought like okay. What?

1:08:04

Is the best way to review

1:08:07

extension for developers. And

1:08:09

then we exit. Didn't need to go

1:08:11

that far because every developer has review

1:08:13

process of. It's a pull request.

1:08:15

It to upon request. Another developer

1:08:17

comes looks at a code. This is

1:08:19

something up your much you could go.

1:08:22

To. Is is would do. All. Expenses:

1:08:24

Open Source We have a method for Apple

1:08:27

which is good as it comes less ray

1:08:29

costs less expensive. If you

1:08:31

want to add a new extension, you cry

1:08:33

the opponent quest against that. One.

1:08:35

of our team members comes takes a look.

1:08:38

Hopefully. Ever seen a skirt than

1:08:40

tested quickly and then you in the

1:08:42

store? Are. We also use

1:08:44

this opportunity to provide feedback just like

1:08:46

as he would do a pull requests

1:08:49

I paid like we beauty don't. Tend.

1:08:51

To look too much at a coat but rather

1:08:53

on the functionality on the higher level like. Giving.

1:08:56

Feedback on what six you could do better

1:08:58

to like said our you x. And.

1:09:00

An Insipid so this works really well. The

1:09:02

same I guess you contribute to an extension

1:09:05

as a business. Really nice because you just

1:09:07

use the right look it up books. Love

1:09:09

you! Prance. Odds you do

1:09:11

it changes the fuck it, and then you

1:09:13

bring it back into the repository. So.

1:09:16

It also immediately gifts to as

1:09:18

collaboration. With. Dressing this really, really

1:09:20

powerful. So. I think it's like

1:09:22

this thing which which helps us to

1:09:24

really maintain the quality. Though.

1:09:27

There was one thing. If you have

1:09:29

a thousand extended and that's a lot of more you

1:09:31

like we getting. More. Liverpool requests every

1:09:33

day, right? So be going through this. We

1:09:35

have a dedicated team looking into this. By.

1:09:38

Now we have like one person, Tom. Boy.

1:09:40

Had some eggs the goes over some

1:09:42

of that extensions than and even improve

1:09:44

them. I get especially the topic sentence

1:09:46

that everybody has installed. We try to

1:09:49

stay on top of that if terror

1:09:51

to box which bomb users can report.

1:09:53

We. Held fixing them, We. Work

1:09:55

with companies and create us to better to

1:09:57

improve The Simpsons The printing debate as. First.

1:10:00

We. Have other started launching their things and

1:10:03

in our store the really been like

1:10:05

an eco system around that but first

1:10:07

and foremost centered. Around to

1:10:09

simple things. It. Wanna keep quality and

1:10:11

want to make it easy for developers to

1:10:13

contribute? And. Funny enough,

1:10:16

like the pull requests this little

1:10:18

it's threats and said all developers

1:10:20

know for a while works magically

1:10:22

for that. Comes. With a

1:10:24

few try it out the repository as a

1:10:26

huge right now but we try to like

1:10:28

find solutions to to make it easy to.

1:10:31

Keep. Maintaining does extend that

1:10:33

contributed them easily. But.

1:10:35

Nevertheless, this is like something which makes it

1:10:37

really, really powerful. And the funny thing to

1:10:39

wrap this up: his. New

1:10:42

users. Said. On even know

1:10:44

what was a search party extends know what's

1:10:46

an office full extent and anymore. Because.

1:10:48

They're look and feel. Exactly the

1:10:50

same. So. They might

1:10:52

not even know that this is like an open

1:10:55

source Extends we highlight added the store that is

1:10:57

built by people and stuff like that. And.

1:10:59

When they use a day extension. It's

1:11:01

so immersive. Been to direct experience,

1:11:04

That. You have this the ceiling and I

1:11:06

think this is like the really important

1:11:08

bit here. I get the sad ownership

1:11:11

between us as company but all the

1:11:13

contributors. And. Be helping each other to get

1:11:15

to this quality bar. I like

1:11:17

the idea of it being part of

1:11:19

the repository the to have when your

1:11:21

own get out by the that actually

1:11:23

helps you not house. And

1:11:26

you want to have to distribution in terms of

1:11:28

your user base obviously, but you don't have the

1:11:30

code be. Distributed. In

1:11:33

so far as good as already distributed.

1:11:36

Version troll System so barring the awareness

1:11:38

of how get works with. Go.

1:11:40

Above that and say this is all located

1:11:42

at. Recasts. User your

1:11:45

org on get hub in

1:11:47

the extensions repository. In. The

1:11:49

extensions directory within that repository.

1:11:52

And. So all of it is in a way. As.

1:11:55

A High level of control. From a

1:11:57

retest perspective you have a level of

1:11:59

control team. Remove arrow Probably to veto

1:12:01

or to be like this. Probably doesn't fit.

1:12:03

Let's. Not merge this Pull requests. Rikers

1:12:05

is not gonna be you know in

1:12:07

master or in mean. Whatever. You've

1:12:10

chosen if you've gone back and renamed. Ah,

1:12:13

your your primary branch I'm isn't going to

1:12:15

be in that mean branch until you've accepted

1:12:17

the pull request, right? So there's a level

1:12:19

of said in a betting I think that

1:12:22

I wasn't quite aware of. Now.

1:12:24

That makes a lot more sense. You know how

1:12:26

you're maintaining that control. There. Is an

1:12:28

interesting side effect that helps us also

1:12:30

to correct the store. So. Fussy.

1:12:32

There was a extension. That.

1:12:34

Is the same or similar to another,

1:12:36

extends and. We. Can hints the

1:12:39

aws of like hey maybe we

1:12:41

contribute to extra features to the

1:12:43

existing extensions. For. Me use

1:12:45

of respect they have. this is the like

1:12:47

five different accents and in the store you

1:12:49

might not know the differences though. We.

1:12:52

Tried it a dose things as well which is

1:12:54

like less on the extends. Never but warned a

1:12:56

higher levels makes for it like a. Really

1:12:59

nice experience. And. Then the

1:13:01

other side effect that was quite helpful as

1:13:03

like. The Past A Sinner repository.

1:13:06

It's perfect for teaching as well

1:13:08

for agitating. Cause. Every new develop

1:13:11

a com than one know how to build

1:13:13

next and know how to use this feature.

1:13:15

There's no endless of features are like example

1:13:17

the defense Us linked to the hate. Us:

1:13:20

To: Is this react Hope Here is example: Check

1:13:22

it out. The some people take one

1:13:24

extend, some. And that sort of

1:13:26

taking it as a template and then

1:13:28

praying in their own changes for like

1:13:30

a new extension methods like something which.

1:13:33

Leg. Was like we thought about it initially but

1:13:35

was a bit of a surprise. How about sex?

1:13:37

The help. To like spearhead that because

1:13:39

we like to use in and got to like

1:13:41

a thousand extensions. Read it the with the quickly.

1:13:44

Which. Was like. The. Open Source

1:13:46

know it's like nice because people. Really?

1:13:49

Associate themselves with struggles, community,

1:13:52

And like praying and like this does

1:13:54

openness. And like the developer line said

1:13:56

around that. Lot. Of activity here

1:13:58

for this for sure. Instead,

1:14:00

you know, maybe one more layer

1:14:02

deeper from a technical level, but

1:14:04

not quite actually technical, but more

1:14:06

like. Technically. Speaking

1:14:08

license wise. The.

1:14:11

Entire repository is Mit license and grants

1:14:13

on being in though not just for

1:14:15

years and free but for his and

1:14:18

Liebreich the in a true permissive nature

1:14:20

of open source. And

1:14:22

I guess that means that every extension

1:14:24

that's part of this says it makes.

1:14:26

Then there is also permissive license open

1:14:28

source software that can be free to

1:14:30

use. However, literally in quotes, open Source

1:14:33

can be used The real definition of

1:14:35

of the source. Yes, Who

1:14:37

We built our Ip I that

1:14:39

allows people to build those extensions.

1:14:42

We. Build a former to bad basically

1:14:44

allows to render those things and rey

1:14:46

cause this is the permanently host photos

1:14:49

extensions on and he wanted to make

1:14:51

sure we have had like this. But.

1:14:53

We also wanted to make sure

1:14:55

that people builders extensions that there

1:14:57

is this concept of feather the

1:14:59

sad owner said bright. As.

1:15:01

You mentioned as part of our repository so

1:15:04

we own what comes in there. Are.

1:15:06

If other people that decide like a i don't

1:15:08

wanna. Sheridan. The Store.

1:15:11

Or maybe one of us distributed outside

1:15:13

so they keep down repository. And. Then

1:15:15

people can like downloaded from there on

1:15:17

added to. Drag. Us from there.

1:15:19

So. I think this is was assessed the

1:15:22

flexibility mom. I think it's a

1:15:24

steak. It's quite interesting. like when when

1:15:26

you work with developers and on steam.

1:15:28

Basic about myself with well, because the

1:15:30

system one of Bush's people are. I

1:15:32

did one A Basically, be honest with

1:15:34

people, I mean ten or a suit.

1:15:36

but I think developers. They. Like

1:15:39

extremely good at like picking outdoor

1:15:41

things and are like logically not

1:15:43

connect together. You don't make yourself

1:15:45

friends with it. so. I.

1:15:48

Think that we which has good citizen when

1:15:50

going back they didn't how we would like

1:15:52

to habit so. I. Think there's no harm

1:15:54

having and like this so we just trying

1:15:56

to be transparent around us topics as well.

1:16:00

Adding it myself about that so I

1:16:02

guess to tell off the the store

1:16:04

story Mrs Bella time slot extension by

1:16:06

the way to browse only episode sydney

1:16:08

half an ip I we do have

1:16:10

as I think it's a behind the

1:16:12

scenes a pianist never been first class

1:16:14

citizen. After that

1:16:16

would said was during a know he'd made it a

1:16:19

priority but. I don't know how

1:16:21

well documented or a pi if

1:16:23

it exists. How it's being

1:16:25

used are consumed set me now they

1:16:27

would be fun. Like having a little.

1:16:30

Come on and rey cause the open Saints

1:16:32

like that com you see all the episodes

1:16:34

nice covers, the new conflict in it opens

1:16:36

it up and. To. Prefer podcast

1:16:38

plans would be really cool. Never.

1:16:40

Be kinda cool I guess if you have like settings

1:16:42

you can say. It's a based

1:16:45

on install applications, spot a fire, apple,

1:16:47

podcasts or whatever and in Asia opener

1:16:49

for it and extension. Preferences.

1:16:52

And. The winner to you, You know? Fresh

1:16:54

teams are gonna know. As the

1:16:56

horses species on of episodes

1:16:58

are in a latest Sees

1:17:00

log podcasts I'm no. To.

1:17:03

Be for new world and would be cool. Isn't

1:17:05

we will be dope says as I would certainly

1:17:08

use that because in I used for a cast

1:17:10

daily and if I guess have one more thing

1:17:12

in there. I I just installed

1:17:14

pills because we're talking. I was like okay

1:17:16

those browsing storm I would see here. where

1:17:18

do I use I use one password. I.

1:17:21

Use tail skill. I use docker.

1:17:23

I. Use that as my editor, you have

1:17:26

enough Visa Dick is that is too

1:17:28

nice which is cool and what I'd

1:17:30

do with as As Nedra in In

1:17:32

Re Cast would make any sense. as

1:17:34

the only was some low hanging fruit that are to use

1:17:36

only won't. Tell. Skill Sweet. What would

1:17:38

I have their let me list my exit node

1:17:40

on the me to find my exit node or

1:17:43

whatever might be or less my status and whatnot

1:17:45

so as chemical. And that's actually

1:17:47

I'm noticing on the store. it's it's contributed.

1:17:50

You know when you go to

1:17:52

recast.coms last tail skills last till

1:17:55

skill. And in a while there's

1:17:57

a double up there. But as you can explain that

1:17:59

is I see. By. The tail

1:18:01

skill user I guess then you have

1:18:03

contributors which I believe is fi pulled

1:18:05

from the get herb a H E

1:18:07

I in the contributors on get hub.

1:18:09

But. You know it's icy eighteen skill.

1:18:12

Org. Or user. I mean, I know,

1:18:15

How they get their name of their tail

1:18:17

skill yeah, that much like excellence and said

1:18:19

similarly, we kind of follow the get a

1:18:21

pattern there. So. What do you

1:18:23

have is the the can have. One. Organization

1:18:26

or user and than when

1:18:28

your contribution extension. We. Basic

1:18:30

append that for similar to a repository

1:18:32

way have he isn't a rebel name

1:18:35

is Maria Username Extent name. And

1:18:37

then be also have. Companies.

1:18:39

That we collaborate with because often times.

1:18:42

When. You install an extent and then it

1:18:44

comes from the of see sold company

1:18:46

or yeah, makes it more trustworthy right? So

1:18:49

that's why be. Collaborated: With

1:18:51

or com is next tail scale of

1:18:53

one password that linear to like the

1:18:55

head of like the official x than

1:18:57

some because then you can sort of

1:18:59

trusted on and it gives access this

1:19:01

extra boost of confidence. To. Makes

1:19:03

up here this the sounds sounds

1:19:05

reasonable. As. I mentioned all except

1:19:07

the open source throats. Henry can always look

1:19:09

up. If you developer what happens in

1:19:11

there we just sort of also security measure to

1:19:14

be know. What? Goes on there and

1:19:16

like a transparent for people to look into. it. But.

1:19:18

Doesn't like something which we find

1:19:20

extremely valuable like having. This

1:19:22

sort of official exception. And.

1:19:25

So she loses in the tank. It suggests

1:19:27

on details you have officers in a you

1:19:29

have author obviously and you have owner and

1:19:31

the the owner in this case for Tesco

1:19:34

is obviously they'll skill. Says

1:19:36

chemical which is kind of interesting like wire

1:19:38

why we have to two different ones lap.

1:19:40

It's a nice birthday is a nice detail.

1:19:43

Like. Oftentimes we have. A

1:19:45

Person Starting Villains Extension Thirty

1:19:47

Author: Yeah. And then

1:19:50

disclose and popularity.

1:19:52

And and we wanna make it unofficial

1:19:55

accents and. And. Still

1:19:57

wanna keep the or term author of.

1:20:00

They put so much effort into it was

1:20:02

to make wanted it. I'm the we have

1:20:04

them still as the original author and data

1:20:06

that get the extra credit. And

1:20:08

that half basic a D d owner

1:20:10

separately as the organization. with

1:20:13

somebody for example. Similarly, the notion

1:20:15

extension. With. Cynically was built

1:20:17

by of friends pm. And

1:20:19

he really build this and really really well. And

1:20:22

then we made it. Like together with Notion

1:20:24

said that hey let's make this an official

1:20:27

extension to so user fight This Really the

1:20:29

official Notion extension. But. Still wanna

1:20:31

keep the credits to the Ireton author so

1:20:33

we have them in there as well. As.

1:20:35

They assess this nice touch us which is like.

1:20:38

As. You build this yourself in one

1:20:40

of still have discredit right? so tested

1:20:42

one a trend for that away artificially

1:20:45

agree with that. I do agree also

1:20:47

that you need to have an owner

1:20:49

mechanism. You. Know, even if it's

1:20:51

the original author, you might have author

1:20:53

Sam. When Bill. An onerous

1:20:55

in limbo until til skill. The Yeah recast

1:20:58

will collaborate with you and take ownership of

1:21:00

that and. Let. Their become part

1:21:02

of our first class citizen extension ecosystem

1:21:04

out there because what you give that

1:21:07

brand is is really. He. Added

1:21:09

user experience and I guess in

1:21:12

some ways more usefulness and potentially

1:21:14

distribution because. I'm a

1:21:16

good your store and and discover something. I

1:21:18

mean who doesn't about one password. Or.

1:21:20

Even tell skill. but. Till. Skill by the

1:21:22

way. as as a sponsor and so is. One.

1:21:24

Pass for the and become upon a sponsor

1:21:26

Really since I'm excited about the Ebony a

1:21:28

life alone user of one passwords I'm excited

1:21:31

our the I'll answer it right here in

1:21:33

the near future but you know we use

1:21:35

all their features in or for structure and

1:21:37

as a developer he's a lot of their

1:21:39

feel I features and on my as these

1:21:41

keys are stored in there I biometric on

1:21:43

the things anyways ad is over for one

1:21:45

pass from a big fan though cool to

1:21:48

close the loop like seven something that you

1:21:50

can use a great for long personally and

1:21:52

adding sponsored by it's like interesting thing as

1:21:54

yes. Love they love helped clear was

1:21:56

developers so. I. Think there's a lot of

1:21:58

your the number one pass or but no up. Who use

1:22:00

their developer toying. Or. Have a

1:22:02

clear awareness in oh that's part of the

1:22:05

key to take part of distribution for brands

1:22:07

and communication is go where the people are

1:22:09

in a was totally makes sense why you're

1:22:11

on Twitter next because that's where a lot

1:22:14

of people are. I think in the last

1:22:16

couple years we've seen that that ecosystem fracture

1:22:18

bed and you have more people who completely

1:22:20

a man that never coming back and have

1:22:23

moved Mastodon or slack or does nothing. There

1:22:25

is a sort of abandoned social media maybe

1:22:27

now the lyric on Instagram instead of. Being

1:22:30

active on a platform which is cool

1:22:32

too. But. As a brand is

1:22:34

trying to maintain communication, loves or folks

1:22:36

and whatnot, it's become in Philly harder

1:22:39

and today's age really is what I

1:22:41

mean. Ride like you can. busy tourism

1:22:43

at his stuff. But. As people

1:22:45

those cowards doesn't matter right? and it's really into

1:22:47

doesn't doesn't matter how big or small companies is

1:22:49

see a half this proper brought in one of

1:22:51

the other way his best and think by way

1:22:54

of and be one a prance out. And

1:22:56

for the new target audiences from wanna. Diversify.

1:22:59

Your teacher said the bet you kinda need

1:23:01

to done. For. The for he learned

1:23:03

his mechanics okay well the new users I

1:23:06

reached. Out to I

1:23:08

can make my brand attracted to them

1:23:10

to the know about the print differently

1:23:12

before super interesting. I feel like this

1:23:14

is like yeah especially. And

1:23:16

develop a land as like a breed interested. States

1:23:20

of America. Was

1:23:37

a friend's This episode is

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brought to you by our

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1:26:43

right, now Thomas, it's

1:26:46

time to talk about AI. Are you ready? Are

1:26:48

you ready? I

1:26:57

was excited for you to talk about AI. I mean, I

1:27:00

wonder, it's now become the norm.

1:27:02

And in a lot of cases, there's people who

1:27:05

are fatigued by discussions of

1:27:07

AI and it's become a meme

1:27:09

in lots of ways too where

1:27:11

XYZ brand has a new launch and artificial

1:27:14

intelligence is now baked in in

1:27:16

some way, shape or form. And

1:27:18

then obviously you launched Pro. A

1:27:20

while back, I came for the

1:27:22

setting sinking personally and did

1:27:25

not come for the AI. But now I can

1:27:27

appreciate the AI because I

1:27:29

got 3.5 for free or I guess

1:27:31

for paid for free with my pro plan.

1:27:34

Right? For free with my pro plan. But

1:27:37

then you also have the option to have advanced

1:27:39

AI in Raycast.

1:27:42

This has got to be a boom for

1:27:44

you. One way to have a single

1:27:47

interface, a single pane of glass as a

1:27:49

lot of people in tech say to

1:27:52

AI tooling, the various LLMs. What does

1:27:55

this mean for Raycast? Have you seen

1:27:57

a massive growth? Is there new research

1:27:59

internally? How does this work for you all? Yeah,

1:28:01

especially I get it. I mean, I

1:28:03

think everybody's fatigued about AI, right? So

1:28:05

this has been like around now for

1:28:07

one and a half years. Every

1:28:10

week, there is something new. It

1:28:12

keeps getting better and like

1:28:15

new stuff enables and whatsoever. Every

1:28:17

company indicates it, every company talks

1:28:20

about it. So I

1:28:22

definitely get this. And I think it's also, I

1:28:25

personally wish like this gets a bit like less

1:28:27

about AI, and more about

1:28:29

what's going on. Actually, it's possible or

1:28:31

what actually features people build, where

1:28:34

AI becomes just like the

1:28:36

enabler, right? Like the technology that enables

1:28:38

it. But you talk more about

1:28:41

actually the innovations you do

1:28:43

and less about AI and

1:28:45

model. That being said, we

1:28:48

recently added more of those models, because

1:28:50

we're in this really weird timing

1:28:53

right now, where it's

1:28:55

one of the only things I can remember from

1:28:57

my life where it comes out. And

1:29:00

immediately, everybody knows about

1:29:02

all the details, is an

1:29:04

expert in it, knows when to

1:29:06

use which model knows the preferred model

1:29:09

whatsoever. And it's like it's,

1:29:11

it's kind of hard to go against this, this

1:29:14

flow and so like you completely neglecting it,

1:29:16

which is basically we did our pivot there in

1:29:19

a way of like we first wanted to just

1:29:21

support open AI models, and said like,

1:29:23

deals are the clear winners, making

1:29:25

it easy, we're just going to have those models. But

1:29:28

then loud and clear our community say like,

1:29:30

Hey, hold on. And traffic is

1:29:32

actually really good for x, y, z. And

1:29:35

then there is perplexity that is really great

1:29:37

for when you want to have quick answers

1:29:39

around channel knowledge. And it's like, oh, hold

1:29:41

on. Yeah, this kind of makes sense. And

1:29:44

it's not so black and white, the details

1:29:46

in the devil. And this

1:29:48

is why we sort of added more of

1:29:51

those LMs to Raycos. And we really

1:29:53

see that now it's like Raycos AI

1:29:55

is sort of this one interface. For

1:29:58

many different LMs and you can pick can choose

1:30:00

the ones that suit you

1:30:02

personally the most or suit

1:30:04

the task at hand that you want to do

1:30:06

the most. You might be need like

1:30:08

an extremely fast LLM which is

1:30:11

like less capable but it's good enough for

1:30:13

what you want to do like fixing spelling

1:30:15

of a sentence or something. But

1:30:17

maybe if you're diving down into a coding problem, you

1:30:19

want to make sure that you have the best LLM

1:30:23

and it can reason about the problems you have

1:30:25

and it's fine if it takes a bit longer

1:30:27

because you get more value out of it. So

1:30:29

that's like sort of the conclusion we came to. Personally,

1:30:32

I don't think like that's sort of the end state.

1:30:35

We're already thinking about can we

1:30:37

do something automatic so that we pick the

1:30:40

right model for your problem and you don't

1:30:42

need to care about it. So it's

1:30:44

more like sort of the implementation detail behind the

1:30:46

scenes like we pick the one or the other

1:30:48

and make

1:30:50

a good guess of like what's the right model for

1:30:52

this. So like because

1:30:54

if I think about AI, I don't

1:30:57

think about picking a model right. I just

1:30:59

think about there is like an intelligence that

1:31:01

helps me doing something that I would need

1:31:03

to do otherwise myself. So that's really what

1:31:05

it is about. And then the

1:31:08

other angle to it which now you know

1:31:10

want to talk more about the features. What

1:31:13

Raycrest is interesting you if

1:31:15

you use Raycrest you do it with the keyboard,

1:31:17

you insert the text and that

1:31:19

we sort of interpret this text. At

1:31:21

the moment, this is very static like you search

1:31:24

a command to center your window, we center

1:31:26

your window. There is another command to

1:31:28

center it left or to move it to the left.

1:31:31

And so it's very statically defined what you can

1:31:33

do. But what AI allows

1:31:36

you to do is that this becomes more of a

1:31:38

fluent thing that this becomes more of something can enter

1:31:40

something I want to do x y that and

1:31:42

then we essentially figure out for you what to do.

1:31:44

And the interesting

1:31:47

bit here is when you think about

1:31:49

the store and the extensions we chatted about all

1:31:51

of them are connected to different tools. So

1:31:53

they connected to your issue tracker to your

1:31:56

wiki to whatever you

1:31:58

have. And so So you can

1:32:00

then start thinking about oh, this is quite interesting

1:32:02

so now I can connect things together that I

1:32:04

would do otherwise. And this gets in

1:32:06

much more around like what is things that

1:32:09

you do on a daily basis very often

1:32:11

that would be good to abstract away and make

1:32:13

it quicker to do. And so

1:32:15

this is something which we're thinking about how can we get

1:32:18

out of this very statically defined feature

1:32:20

set. This is the I don't

1:32:22

know, a thousand things you can do to like

1:32:25

more hey, you can shape

1:32:27

them up yourself by basically chatting

1:32:29

or talking or inputting the text, what do you want

1:32:31

to do about this stuff. And

1:32:34

with that all sort of problems come

1:32:36

which is like fun problem. So it's

1:32:38

not straightforward otherwise we'll probably have build

1:32:40

it by now and it's extremely

1:32:42

hard to build something that is reliable and

1:32:44

fast which basically Rayco stands for

1:32:46

right like we had all the way at the

1:32:49

beginning about how to replace things like spotlight, you

1:32:51

need to be really fast, you need to be

1:32:53

reliable, you need to be 10x better and then

1:32:56

now you gain always the opposite direction to

1:32:58

like LLMs, they hallucinate,

1:33:00

they're slow, how do

1:33:02

you combine those two things to make like a good

1:33:04

product. And some of

1:33:07

those things will hopefully be

1:33:09

solved over time, things just

1:33:11

naturally get better and faster with

1:33:14

those language models. But how can

1:33:16

we actually solve the unique problems to our

1:33:18

use case and how can we make those

1:33:21

really, really good for what we wanted to do. I

1:33:25

think the challenge

1:33:27

is interface, right? How

1:33:29

do you maintain some sort of native approach like

1:33:31

I know when I use chat GPT proper on

1:33:34

the website, there's this analyzing

1:33:36

aspect like it has this

1:33:38

spinning wheel, something's happening

1:33:41

while you're waiting some sort of feedback loop.

1:33:45

And when I asked the same

1:33:47

question on chat GPT for native

1:33:50

on the website or

1:33:52

inside of Raycast, The

1:33:54

output is different. It's a little bit, I

1:33:56

Don't know what makes it different or how

1:33:58

you... Even what

1:34:00

you do behind the scenes to take what they feed you v

1:34:02

the a pie to be different than what they have on the

1:34:04

web. I suppose you

1:34:07

could see the need of Chelsea pretty way. And

1:34:10

so that's always the my concern is like how to you.

1:34:12

How. Do you build? A. Tool successfully

1:34:15

around a moving target that is

1:34:17

a I. That. Has

1:34:19

unique ways to have a

1:34:21

user experience. First class. You

1:34:24

know when you're at their proper and

1:34:26

and wouldn't the way in a wouldn't

1:34:28

the the purists so to speak to

1:34:30

really care about the director their movie

1:34:32

kind of the only guy mean i

1:34:34

you know that I'm just thing like the

1:34:37

purists is like what is it must

1:34:39

be shot on film kind of thing.

1:34:41

back to like I must go to

1:34:43

Chelsea pretty proper to get my chance.

1:34:45

You be t four hours daily or

1:34:47

whatever they have their had a why.

1:34:50

How do you make sure that Re

1:34:52

cast is superior? In. All the

1:34:54

way you want to be superior as

1:34:56

an application, but not less than the

1:34:58

actual need of way. We

1:35:00

know Claude may operate or the Gp

1:35:03

t me operating for those. Those examples

1:35:05

at us near thing is quite interesting

1:35:07

one because. The. I've set

1:35:09

off for the immense unaided sensibility

1:35:11

as many hours or so doing

1:35:13

something similar. So. You ask yourself

1:35:15

the question like what should be exit

1:35:17

do like coming back the like. I'm

1:35:20

excited about ponders like okay, how do we know

1:35:22

it did the right thing. And.

1:35:25

As a my take on this. Is probably

1:35:27

change because they I'd send so quickly

1:35:29

but at the moment it feels like.

1:35:31

Everybody tries to build is. Super.

1:35:34

Scenario day I that solves everything

1:35:36

right. All of our problem in

1:35:38

such a simple sad and why

1:35:40

this might work and we we

1:35:42

can get there eventually. It's

1:35:44

quite. Hard to build something

1:35:46

that's America. Because. He

1:35:49

usually we do the other way around to

1:35:51

build tools for very specific things. We.

1:35:54

Have an Id either write code. We.

1:35:56

Have a notion to write not code but

1:35:58

also type of text right? They

1:36:00

complete a different interface, completed

1:36:02

different tool. But. Both of them

1:36:04

produce text that the and. So.

1:36:07

Now going back to the basic this.

1:36:09

like what is actually the unique stuff.

1:36:12

That. He do with rey cause. What?

1:36:14

Is actually the things that we can do Good.

1:36:17

To. See, it's enough and with more come

1:36:19

from this angle. And when I think aware

1:36:21

that it's more okay. We kind of

1:36:23

about how can we make people. Staying.

1:36:26

In their slow better how can you make sure

1:36:28

they get information that need quicker to do that

1:36:30

shop? How do we make sure that. Really?

1:36:33

Moved us distraction because all the tools they use

1:36:35

on a daily basis. Believe it or not the

1:36:37

have an upset about it I want to put

1:36:39

on top of your i don't wanna make. You.

1:36:41

Visit this tool. For. Better of