0:00

Welcome to my podcast from

0:03

Chaos to Peace with Conny . I

0:05

am Conny Graf and your host , and

0:07

I will explore with you how a few

0:09

minutes a day can keep the chaos away

0:11

. And with chaos we're talking about

0:13

the physical , digital , social , financial

0:16

, mental , emotional and spiritual

0:18

clutter that can accumulate in our

0:20

life and business . In

0:22

every episode , I want to make you

0:24

aware how clutter is so

0:27

much more than you think , how it affects

0:29

your finances and how clearing

0:31

your clutter leads to more time , more

0:33

money and more peace . Let's

0:36

go . Well

0:43

. Hello , my friend . Welcome

0:45

to the podcast . I am Conny Graf

0:47

, your host . Thank you so much for

0:49

allowing me back into your ears . I'm very

0:52

excited to welcome

0:54

Victoria Pelletier as

0:56

a guest today . Victoria

0:58

is a 20-plus year

1:01

corporate executive board

1:03

director , number one selling

1:05

author and a prolific motivational

1:08

and inspirational speaker . She

1:10

wrote a book called Unstoppable Stories

1:13

of Changemakers who Dare to

1:15

Make a Difference , and her next book

1:17

is about to come out , called Influence

1:21

Unleashed Forging a Lasting

1:23

Legacy through Personal Branding

1:25

. In our conversation , we're

1:27

talking about how she had to overcome

1:30

adversity in her childhood , which

1:32

led her to create a life of

1:34

no excuses , and this

1:37

made her unstoppable . This

1:39

turned into her being the youngest

1:42

chief operating officer at 24

1:44

, a president by 35

1:46

and a CEO by 41

1:49

. We talk about whole

1:51

human leadership and what

1:53

that means , the importance

1:55

of personal branding and its impact

1:58

, and the power of DEI

2:00

diversity , equity and inclusion

2:03

in our workplace and

2:06

our workplace cultures . Okay

2:09

, without further ado , let's jump into

2:11

this powerful conversation

2:14

with the unstoppable

2:16

Victoria Pelletier . Welcome

2:21

, victoria , I'm excited to have

2:23

you as a guest on a podcast . How are you

2:25

today ?

2:27

I'm fantastic . Thanks for having me , Conny .

2:30

I'm so glad you're here , so please

2:32

tell my audience . I

2:35

have an international audience . Tell my audience

2:37

, where in the world are you located ? And then I

2:39

always ask my guests to tell us

2:41

something surprising about them that

2:43

has nothing to do with what we're talking about afterwards

2:46

.

2:47

So I'm a very proud Canadian . However

2:49

, I live very , very far south in the United

2:51

States . I live in Miami Beach , florida

2:53

. I think my Canadian

2:56

blood , although very accustomed to the snow , wanted

2:58

to escape it . So that's one of the things I love

3:01

about being down down here and

3:03

surprising fat . Well

3:06

, it will be so surprising now that I said I'm Canadian

3:09

but that I played hockey . I've played hockey for

3:11

20 years , although there's very little

3:13

of that down here in Florida , so

3:15

I miss it greatly , but

3:17

it's one of the things that I love the most

3:20

in terms of one of my like fitness

3:22

activities over the last many years .

3:24

Wow , I do find that very surprising

3:27

. So I'm Swiss and

3:29

we have lots of hockey in Switzerland , and

3:31

I live in Canada now where there's lots of hockey

3:33

, but I don't play hockey . So I do find it surprising

3:36

, but it's awesome . I only watched

3:38

hockey when I was younger . I watched a lot

3:40

. So , yeah , yeah

3:42

, so awesome . So

3:44

let's dive in . Because you

3:47

curated a life of no

3:49

excuses and I heard you say

3:51

that because you had to overcome so

3:53

much adversity early on in your life

3:55

, you were so driven to

3:57

and became unstoppable

4:00

. Can you give us the condensed version

4:03

of what got you here

4:05

to be unstoppable and living

4:08

a life of no excuses For

4:11

?

4:11

sure . So I overcame pretty extreme

4:13

trauma in my youth . I was born to a

4:16

drug addicted teenager who was quite

4:18

abusive to me , and so I went in and out of

4:20

the child welfare system a number of times

4:22

and I was fortunate , however , to

4:24

be adopted by

4:26

a loving family . However , they were

4:28

lower on the socioeconomic sort of totem pole

4:31

, if you will , and so one of my mom told me

4:33

when I think I was 11 she's like

4:35

Tori , you need to be better than us . And she meant vocationally

4:37

, educationally , why , I'll tell

4:40

you she didn't need to say those things , because those

4:43

two aspects of sort of the trauma

4:45

and the biology and circumstance I was

4:47

born into , and then just kind of

4:49

where we sat socioeconomically and

4:52

the circumstances behind that , that became kind

4:54

of my fuel , my drive , my why

4:56

, if you will ? Because I was determined

4:58

I'm going to be better than , again

5:01

, biology or circumstance and

5:03

that , although I only started using

5:05

the unstoppable term probably 10 or

5:07

15 years ago , that was really

5:09

my nature and so it was overcoming

5:12

a significant amount . However , I will say

5:14

there's a little bit of DNA in that as well

5:16

. You know , fight or flight , I'm a fighter

5:18

, and so for me the no excuses

5:21

, the unstoppable is a meaning

5:23

that I personally will not

5:26

let any obstacle , challenge or adversity

5:28

stop me from achieving the goal

5:30

or objective I've set for myself , and

5:32

no excuses . Which drives my children crazy

5:35

is more the

5:37

fact that we have choice , and

5:39

it doesn't mean that we don't deeply feel the

5:41

emotion that occurs when one of these things happens

5:43

to us , but we have a choice in

5:45

terms of how we're going to move forward and

5:47

deal with that , and so that

5:49

that's what it's all about for me and that's how

5:52

I live my life .

5:54

I find it interesting that you say that you have some

5:56

DNA in you to be a fighter

5:58

, because I just

6:00

read the book willpower doesn't work by

6:02

dr Benjamin Hardy and he says the

6:04

environment shapes how we are

6:07

and so the when

6:09

you would go by that , then

6:11

your environment , like you said , on

6:13

the lower scale of the sociological

6:15

level , would

6:18

have maybe suggested that

6:20

you're staying there , right . So

6:23

you do think , or

6:25

no , ask differently . Do you think

6:27

we do need to have a

6:29

certain buck in ourselves

6:31

to be a fighter rather than

6:34

taking on the environment

6:36

, or can we learn to become

6:38

a fighter ?

6:42

I think it's a little bit of both , and so I

6:44

think you're the

6:46

innate nature like . You're either

6:48

born with a certain mindset or not

6:51

. I think so . I do think there's some of that that

6:53

just is there in that DNA . However

6:55

, I do believe that

6:58

you can learn to be

7:00

resilient , that you can learn

7:03

to live with a very different

7:05

philosophy versus what you might actually

7:08

feel like , that you might alternatively

7:10

like want to do so

7:12

. I don't think it's either , or I think it's both

7:15

. However , I do lean

7:17

a little bit more heavily into learning

7:20

and modeling thoughts

7:22

, action , behaviors that

7:24

get you towards your goal .

7:26

Mm-hmm . Yeah , yeah , totally

7:28

, and I think he said that too . He just said

7:31

the environment has such a big effect

7:33

on you that you're almost doomed

7:36

to stay in the environment , so you

7:38

have to get out of the environment . But

7:40

, yeah , so I love it

7:43

. I love also that unstoppable

7:46

. I kind of see

7:48

myself maybe not as

7:51

crazy and

7:53

in a positive way as you are

7:55

, but you were very

7:57

young , so you were really on

7:59

the achieving and on the

8:02

trajectory to go to places towards the moon , because

8:07

you were the youngest chief operating officer at

8:10

the age of 24 , and then a president

8:12

by 35 and a CEO

8:14

at age 41, . I have to read this so

8:16

I get it right , because it's very impressive

8:18

. So

8:21

that got

8:23

you there , and now

8:25

you're an expert in leadership , right , and

8:28

so I wanna talk with you about leadership , because you have a different

8:30

approach . You

8:33

call it whole human leadership . So

8:36

what is the significance and

8:38

why did you end up here ? So

8:41

that has to do with your story , I would think .

8:45

Yeah , so my expertise

8:47

in leadership comes from the fact that I

8:49

have been a leader now for over 30 years . My

8:52

first leadership role was at age 14 . I became the

8:54

assistant manager of the shoe store that

8:56

I worked at while I was in high school and actually that's

8:59

a passion for me . I

9:02

thought I was gonna be a lawyer , but when I got into

9:04

the business world , when I worked throughout

9:06

university in leadership capacity

9:08

, I realized how much I enjoyed that . However

9:11

, I made some pretty significant missteps

9:13

Early in my

9:15

particularly my executive leadership roles

9:18

. I learned in my like mid to late 20s

9:20

that I had a nickname as the Iron Maiden , and

9:23

that is a result of , I think , a couple of things . One

9:26

is my lived experience . I

9:29

was very afraid to show vulnerable

9:31

people and to show vulnerability and

9:34

talk about my lived experiences

9:37

, because I didn't want anyone to question

9:39

whether I not only had earned

9:41

my seat at the table , but also the dynamic

9:44

and this is the other piece as a woman in

9:46

business . So for me , I

9:48

showed up in leadership

9:50

with a bit of a mask on . I was all

9:52

business all the time . I'm

9:55

not going to be vulnerable with you . We're gonna

9:57

get right to the heart of the agenda and get stuff

9:59

done and my leadership

10:01

journey , I learned that I

10:03

needed to act very differently

10:06

, and my

10:08

best friend nicknamed me Turtle , and

10:10

so that's . I'm a very tough exterior

10:13

, very resilient , but actually inside

10:15

I'm all soft and marshmallowy Like I cry at the Humane

10:17

Society commercials that kind of thing that

10:20

needed to show up in my leadership style . And

10:22

so whole human leadership

10:24

is the recognition of failure I

10:27

had by showing up in a very particular

10:29

way and how much better

10:31

it was , as a leader , for me to be vulnerable

10:33

, to be authentic and to

10:36

create the safe space for my team to

10:39

do the same . So whole human leadership

10:41

is about being vulnerable . It's about being authentic

10:43

. It includes being transparent , but

10:46

not that we sacrifice performance

10:48

in doing so , not that we don't operate

10:51

with . You know to borrow Kim Scott's phrase from

10:53

Radical Candor right that

10:56

we're not going to be giving the feedback

10:58

that people need to hear to move things forward

11:00

. It's recognition of all

11:02

of those things and how we show up and

11:04

creating a much better again

11:06

environment for our team . That's

11:09

where I spent a lot of my time coaching

11:11

the team members that work for me

11:13

all of Humor , leaders as well , and

11:15

then whether it's standing on public stages

11:17

. I have a book coming out on this topic and

11:20

it's I'm hoping that people

11:23

can learn to do it differently

11:25

from the get-go . There are things I wish my 20-year-old

11:27

self knew that I now do well into my

11:29

40s .

11:31

Yeah , I agree . But then on the other

11:33

hand , so like when we look back 30 years or

11:36

even just 20 years , I think the time

11:38

wasn't the same as it

11:40

is now . So I had the nickname

11:42

, you had the nickname Iron Maiden , I had the

11:44

nickname Tough Cookie . But I

11:46

think as women we

11:48

kind of had to be a bit that

11:50

way , because it was very like

11:54

you couldn't really show emotions in

11:56

the boardroom when you were the only

11:58

woman in a way right , because right

12:00

away it would be said , oh , you're just

12:03

like a teary-eyed whatever

12:05

, and of course that's why we don't have

12:07

women usually , right . And so you kind

12:10

of had to be this

12:12

way , and

12:15

it was really rare

12:18

that you met somebody , a

12:20

man or somebody who identifies

12:24

as a man , being

12:26

more vulnerable , and

12:28

if he was , then only

12:30

in the one-on-one and for sure not in

12:32

the boardroom . That's at least my experience

12:35

. So I totally love where

12:37

we go in the world

12:39

towards more integrating

12:42

these areas . But I think that

12:45

was just how it was back then in a way

12:47

too , otherwise you wouldn't have made

12:49

it where you are right , I

12:51

agree , I do .

12:54

I think I've seen a seismic shift

12:56

in business and

12:58

I actually think COVID helped with

13:00

this . In that you're right , this

13:03

is the way it's been done for all these years

13:05

, and for many women felt , and I

13:07

felt that I needed to show up much like my

13:09

male counterparts Again , I want to feel like as the only woman at the boardroom

13:12

table , like I

13:14

belong here , and so I think that's

13:16

part of it . But also , employees

13:19

have demanded something very , very different

13:21

, and so I've seen an evolution

13:24

. I think COVID helped . I think the pendulum was already swinging

13:26

, but when

13:28

there became no separation

13:31

, when we all worked from our homes

13:33

, we

13:35

all had to work together to make

13:38

sure that we were able to do

13:42

things that gave us greater purpose and joy , and

13:45

so I think a big part of whole human leadership is

13:47

to help connect

13:49

that for our employees , the work that they do . What

13:52

kind of purpose and impact does it have in

13:54

the broader scheme of things ? Like if you're putting

13:57

cogs into a certain like

13:59

, understand how that still contributes

14:01

to the outcome , and so I think that's why I think that when

14:03

you're putting cogs

14:06

into the environment , like if

14:08

you want something very different , it's

14:11

also known that employees don't just quit companies , they

14:14

quit bosses , and

14:18

so there's now a need to shift to a very different way of leading

14:22

in a different type of environment that employees want to work

14:24

in , and

14:26

in large part because there's been

14:28

a talent shortage as well , and so I think that's

14:32

why I think that's why I think that people

14:34

are responding to that . I

14:36

hope for many of them it's just not lipstick on a pig .

14:38

Yes . But now

14:40

of course you come

14:43

from the employee level and

14:45

you say employees expect

14:48

and want something

14:50

different . But I

14:53

hear the other side where all

14:55

the employers say , oh , we can't get

14:57

decent employees anymore

15:00

. So I'm thinking it also shifts what

15:02

the workspace or

15:04

the workplace and the companies

15:07

expect from the employees . Then , as

15:10

a counter effect in

15:12

a way , right .

15:13

Yeah , I think I don't love the

15:16

social media headlines that came about

15:18

around the great resignation quiet

15:21

, these kinds of things . Again , I think that's

15:23

connected to what did , what did the employees

15:25

want , and they had very different expectations

15:27

. So there was , there was this challenge

15:29

created for employers . But

15:32

I think that becomes there needs

15:34

to be a very hard look at

15:36

one skill , so

15:38

marry skills and

15:41

look at it rather than just like roll

15:43

profiles , like at a macro

15:45

level . Start to distill that down to skills

15:47

Because , again , technology is changing the way we all work

15:49

and even if if you don't think you work in a technology

15:51

company , you do . I mean

15:54

it enables the way in which we all operate

15:56

every day . And so let's

15:58

look at the skills that are required , and

16:00

both the technical or functional

16:03

skills as well as the human

16:05

skills I don't like calling them soft skills

16:07

the human skills and

16:09

the importance around that . Find what gets

16:11

people excited . I've got a

16:13

Gen Z , or at home , or well , not

16:16

at home . I'm an empty nester . Now my older one , who's

16:18

, you know , 23 , will be 24 in a few months

16:20

. They look at job

16:22

security around , the investment in their

16:24

their professional development . So

16:26

again , go back to skills what skills are needed for

16:28

today and where is it evolving to

16:31

as a combination of strategy , new

16:33

product services and technology for

16:35

future ? And how are we building a path

16:37

for them ? That's , that's how they're focused

16:39

. And so employers , yes , facing a challenge

16:42

right now , but they need to start connecting

16:44

the work that people do again

16:46

purpose and impact , understand

16:49

the skills that they have and where

16:51

the skills are going , and building a

16:53

bridge for them . And then the last

16:55

thing I'll say , Conny , is also around being

16:57

really clear on how success

16:59

is measured and what outcomes are being measured and

17:02

the incentives associated

17:04

with that , Because I've worked in far

17:06

too many organizations who say they

17:08

want one thing , yet incent

17:10

on something very different than can often

17:13

drive incredibly poor behavior

17:16

and then therefore low morale

17:18

and low employee satisfaction .

17:20

Yeah , I really love your answer Because

17:23

I just remember when I was young

17:25

, 23 , we didn't have these

17:29

labels of Gen C and all that . That came later , I think . But

17:31

I always heard to , oh , today's youth

17:33

, they're useless , they don't

17:35

want to work and and our , our world is doomed

17:38

. And I mean , that was again so

17:41

and it's always . It always seems like

17:43

we're we're banging

17:47

on the young , young generation

17:49

that actually moves us forward

17:51

in a way , right , because it makes

17:53

us have to change our

17:56

set , set ways

17:58

that we're having . And so I

18:00

don't like , I don't , I don't

18:02

like all these labels , although I

18:04

understand sometimes why we have them , so

18:06

we kind of know exactly what we're talking

18:09

, or we think we know what we're talking

18:11

about . But this constant

18:14

saying , oh , the young ones are

18:16

not there , they

18:18

can't work anymore and we're all doomed

18:20

, I don't like it . So I love your answer

18:23

. Thank you very much . I

18:25

you also said somewhere in

18:27

an interview I heard you say

18:30

there should be no

18:32

schedules , only only

18:34

deliverables , right , and so that

18:36

, I think , is also something that especially

18:39

young ones require , right , they don't want

18:41

to just come and sit in the office for

18:43

10 hours and and

18:45

and , when they could

18:47

, could do it in three . Let's say like that

18:49

or that working from home

18:51

is probably similar to is like , as

18:54

long as I deliver what you asked me to do

18:56

, I should be able to do it wherever I want to

18:58

do it . Is that what you mean with it , or do you

19:00

have more , a deeper

19:02

meaning in this ?

19:05

It means a couple of things , and one

19:07

of which is the way in which you just described it , Conny , and so

19:10

for me , that there are no schedules , just

19:12

deliverables , has been like a mantra that I've had , and

19:15

it long before COVID ever hit . In

19:18

fact , I always created the flexibility

19:20

and capacity for my team

19:22

around how they got

19:24

their work done , so you didn't have

19:26

to ask me for permission to leave

19:28

early for a doctor's appointment

19:31

or a children's sporting event . We have commitments

19:34

to our teams internally

19:36

and to our clients or customers externally , and so be

19:38

clear on what outcomes

19:41

we are expecting , what deliverables

19:43

we need to provide and buy when Although I actually

19:46

also say manage my expectations if I'm too aggressive on when

19:48

those deliverables are to be met

19:50

and sometimes we don't have flexibility , you

19:53

know . You know cash is king and that comes from our

19:55

clients , and sometimes we're , you know , need

19:58

to work more aggressively on those things , and so I

20:01

mean it in that way , and that I want to focus on

20:03

the outcomes . What's how success is going to be measured

20:07

, what deliverables we have , and when

20:09

you choose to get that done . I don't really care to be

20:13

honest . But it's also

20:15

about creating trust

20:18

with our teams and

20:20

as if , again , covid

20:23

didn't prove in

20:25

and productivity was higher . I

20:28

think of my time , you know

20:30

, in some of the largest cities where I was , you

20:32

know in North America , commuting , and we're

20:34

talking one to two hours each way like

20:37

, how much more productive am I being able

20:39

to like , eliminate that ? You

20:41

know from my schedule and

20:43

you know seeing bums in seats , as they say

20:45

, doesn't mean that people are actually being productive

20:48

. So I think , going back to creating

20:50

safe spaces , creating

20:53

trust , and that comes with with flexibility

20:55

and allowing our teams to work in a way that

20:57

is also more aligned to I

21:00

don't like this , as I said , whole

21:02

humans . We show up our experience

21:04

. What happened to us on the weekend shows up at

21:06

work . We're working out of our homes in

21:08

many cases . So let's just recognize

21:10

it's all life . Don't ask me about balance

21:12

. For me it's work-life integration . Let's figure

21:15

out how to make it all work and

21:17

that is another part of how I believe we should

21:19

be leading in business . So no schedules , just

21:21

deliverables means many things

21:23

, but I think ultimately again

21:26

should be the way in which we're leading

21:28

and operating going forward .

21:31

Yeah , I think when it's

21:33

more about control , when we're saying like

21:35

you have to sit here in the office for eight hours

21:37

, for me visible it's

21:40

control , but it's counterproductive

21:43

. And I think , like I had

21:45

, I had early on a boss . When

21:47

I was 22 or so , I had a boss . I

21:50

was so good at my job to brag a bit . Actually

21:54

, I replaced one and a half employees

21:57

that they had before and I could go home

21:59

early because he said as long as you pick up the

22:01

phone when the phone is ringing , you can be wherever you

22:03

want to . So I there

22:07

were innovative bosses

22:10

back then already but I do really believe

22:12

too that the pandemic helped

22:15

. So many companies said , oh

22:17

, we could never have remote workers , that wouldn't work

22:19

, they would just slack off

22:21

and sit in front of the TV all day . And

22:23

the pandemic proved it's not true . And

22:25

yeah , the two hours of commute

22:28

brings so much stress right that we

22:30

could that you could get more

22:32

rested employees to that then

22:34

are more productive .

22:36

Yeah .

22:37

Yeah , yeah . And so I

22:40

love the term whole , whole

22:43

human leadership . Where , where

22:45

do you put the DEI in it

22:47

, into it , the diversity , diversity

22:49

, equity ? I can't say

22:53

. Diversity

22:56

equity inclusion . Man , oh man , this morning

22:58

can't speak . I

23:01

would think that fits into

23:03

this umbrella term as well . It's a

23:05

buzzword right now and it's very important

23:08

topic , but I love the term

23:10

whole human leadership so much .

23:11

Better Talk about it is

23:14

very much a part . So it's hard to describe

23:16

what I mean and hold human leadership

23:18

in one sentence because , as I said , vulnerability

23:21

and authenticity , the way in which we communicate

23:23

, but a big part of that is also the who

23:26

and how we , we lead in business

23:28

, and DEI is a pretty

23:30

significant part of that . It's around

23:32

recognizing . Going back to skills , what

23:35

are the skills that people have and what can be , what

23:37

can be taught , and so what I , you know

23:39

, what I see is it's , you

23:42

know , there's data that actually shows

23:44

that , when we talk just

23:46

from a gender perspective for a second , that women

23:48

do not apply for jobs unless they believe

23:51

they meet nine or

23:53

10 out of the 10 skills criteria , where men typically

23:55

do it with only five or six . So that's

23:57

a confidence issue . That's one

23:59

element , but the reality is , I think

24:01

, as a leader , it's incumbent

24:03

upon me to identify

24:06

potential and I

24:08

can train and coach and mentor

24:10

to the rest , and so I'm . I

24:12

will very happily find someone

24:15

that has very different

24:18

elements of diversity , and diversity is so

24:20

broad and there's a lot of intersectionality of

24:22

those elements . So it's not gender , it's

24:24

not just race , it's not just sex , sexuality

24:27

, it's lived experience

24:29

, it's different functional experience within business , all

24:31

these different elements . I want to create

24:33

diversity within the team and

24:36

in doing so , I'm going to need to find

24:38

people who don't have all of the skills and

24:40

criteria , but I want to know that

24:42

they also have propensity to learn . I also

24:44

want to see that . What , what do they

24:46

bring to the team ? How are they going to fit in ? And

24:49

, again , it's my job to bridge that gap . And

24:52

so I have a phrase I use with many

24:54

things and DEI is one of the places they use

24:56

it as well around strategic intentionality

24:58

. So if we want to move the needle

25:01

on advancing diversity

25:03

in our , our teams , our companies

25:05

, our communities that you know much more broadly

25:08

, then we need to be really strategic around how

25:10

we attract talent , where do we go , and you

25:12

know , to find them and how do we keep

25:14

them . So , again , it's also , you

25:16

know , find creating the right kind of inclusive environment

25:19

where they feel like they can belong and they can show up

25:21

as them , their whole selves . Again , that's part

25:23

of being a whole human

25:25

leader .

25:28

And you say there is a crucial aspect of

25:30

unconscious bias that we have to

25:33

be aware of . So where , where

25:35

, where would you say we have to

25:37

be careful , because I

25:39

think the unconscious bias is dangerous

25:41

because it is unconscious .

25:45

Yeah , it is in the unconscious

25:47

bias is , you know , recognize

25:49

that people do business with people they like

25:51

and trust and want to

25:53

therefore do business with , or , in this case , hire

25:55

, and the biases

25:57

that come is we like and trust

26:00

people because we have shared interests

26:02

, experiences , etc . And so if we're not breaking

26:05

outside of that to find people that are different

26:07

than us , that have different passions

26:10

, values and experiences , then

26:13

we continue to do more of the same thing all the time , and

26:16

so there's a need to most , most

26:18

companies seem to be doing some kind of unconscious bias

26:20

training , but the reality is it's unconscious

26:23

by its nature . So this goes back to the

26:26

intentionality , and so

26:28

for me it's . Let's be really

26:30

clear about the place in which we're starting

26:32

from and hold one another

26:34

accountable to the progress that's going to be

26:36

made again and advancing or moving the

26:38

needle forward . And

26:40

so that intentionality means

26:43

, you know , as a hiring manager

26:45

, if I get a slate of candidates that

26:48

all look the same or come with

26:50

the same educational experience , I need to be

26:52

challenging the recruiter that's working directly with me and

26:55

I also I need to be looking for those things

26:57

as well to

26:59

recognize , recognize that .

27:03

Yeah , it's . I I'm trying

27:05

to wreck my brain where I read

27:07

somewhere one leader . He said

27:09

he has intentionally a

27:12

right hand person that

27:14

has the complete opposite way

27:18

of looking at things , to keep him in

27:21

check . And I like

27:23

, while you were talking , I'm like where did I read

27:25

this and who was this ? I

27:27

forgot , but I thought it was so genius , right , he

27:30

had , he had his vision , he had , he knew

27:32

where he wanted to go , but he had this naysayer

27:35

almost like he didn't call it that way

27:37

, but it's my short version

27:39

of saying it he had this naysayer on

27:41

purpose next to him who would constantly

27:43

throw all the things at him why

27:46

this was not a good idea , why this

27:48

doesn't work , I think , especially

27:50

to get his unconscious bias

27:52

and all his blind

27:55

spots uncovered right .

27:58

So I thought I was jeez , you know

28:00

, I think that's great and I think that's why , actually , we need to

28:02

foster

28:04

dissent in the workplace

28:06

. You know I'm at some point

28:08

we can agree to disagree and there's a hierarchy

28:11

. For a reason , however , I

28:13

want people to challenge me and

28:16

one of the reasons I left there are many

28:18

reasons I left one of the organizations that I once worked

28:20

for , but one of the biggest

28:22

issues I saw was the CEO . She

28:25

would . She only wanted to hire people

28:27

or keep people around her that

28:29

were basically yes people . They were never

28:32

gonna tell her no or challenge her . And

28:36

that's very , very going back

28:39

to again . More of the same . Now

28:42

, in this case , yay that it was a female CEO

28:44

where there's far too many , particularly

28:46

in the Fortune 500 , but surrounding

28:48

ourselves with people who aren't going to challenge

28:51

our way of thinking and doing

28:53

well , not

28:55

, it's . You know what they say . The definition of insanity

28:58

is doing the same thing over and over again . You know , expecting

29:00

different results .

29:01

And expecting a different result yeah , exactly

29:03

. Or expecting to move forward

29:05

and make progress

29:07

, which is probably not gonna happen

29:10

. So now

29:12

, in a way , we're talking

29:15

always about the bigger corporations

29:17

, but how can we get this

29:19

down to smaller

29:21

, like micro businesses that pop up

29:24

everywhere too ? I don't know how big

29:26

your business right now is , but I'm basically

29:28

a micro business with personal brands

29:31

. How can we , as

29:33

smaller businesses , take these

29:35

whole human leadership

29:37

and DEI ideas and

29:40

incorporate them into our small

29:42

little world ? What would you suggest

29:44

?

29:47

So for me , it's a philosophy

29:49

and it's a mindset . And so

29:51

if it's a micro business , no , you

29:53

can't have representation across all

29:56

areas of diversity , because you might just

29:58

not be large enough to do that . However

30:01

, as I said , it's mindset , regardless

30:03

of whether you're a solopreneur and

30:05

like using contractors or

30:08

a business of 10 , 100 , 1000 , the

30:10

reality is the way in which you show up and lead should

30:12

not change , regardless of business size

30:15

. Again , I think it's a mindset

30:17

and the philosophy in which and the way in which you

30:19

show up , and that should

30:21

not be different

30:23

because of the size of your business . And

30:26

I think there's opportunities

30:28

, however , for micro businesses . So you might not have

30:31

a ton of employees , but

30:33

when you use contractors or vendors

30:35

for other things , that's your opportunity

30:37

. Then you might have two employees

30:40

, so you're not gonna have it potentially a ton of diversity

30:42

, but how do you think about that when you're choosing the people

30:44

that you're gonna work with or hire to

30:46

help support ? So I think there's other ways of

30:49

being and showing up , regardless

30:51

of size of business .

30:55

Yeah , what I was also thinking like when I was preparing

30:57

for this interview and going a little

31:00

bit through your material . I was thinking like how can

31:02

I attract a

31:04

more diverse clientele to

31:06

, maybe as a small business , right , so

31:08

how would I have to show up , or

31:11

where are my blind spots where

31:15

I'm not showing up in a way

31:17

that I present myself with this mindset

31:19

? That's kind of what I was wondering

31:22

, right , like , in

31:25

a way , we

31:27

attract , kind of like with our

31:29

energy , of course , what we

31:31

do already . So I don't have , I

31:34

noticed I don't have an extremely

31:36

diverse clientele , but

31:39

that is not because I wouldn't wanna

31:41

have a more diverse clientele

31:43

. That's kind of where my question

31:45

came from .

31:48

Well , so one of the things I had will

31:51

very much attribute my own career

31:53

success to , and one of the areas

31:55

I also spent a significant amount of time talking

31:57

and coaching on , is around your personal

32:00

brand and how you show up . And

32:02

so there's four things

32:04

I think are really important around

32:07

brand , and most people only

32:09

focus on the first one . The first one is what

32:12

do you do ? What's your subject matter , expertise , what

32:14

industry do you know , et cetera . And most people go , okay

32:16

, that's it . Well , no , like to

32:18

my phrase earlier , people do business with people they like

32:20

trust and wanna do business with . So

32:22

it's more than that , it's what you do and what

32:24

your expertise is . The next part is

32:27

what's your story ? What

32:29

, again , values , passions , interests

32:31

, lived experience , what elements do you wanna cause

32:34

that builds connection with people ? The

32:36

next one is what makes you different

32:38

from others ? What's kind of that unique value

32:40

proposition ? So why would someone choose

32:42

to hire you versus someone else who has

32:44

that same expertise or experiences

32:46

you do ? And then the last one is

32:48

legacy and impact and like what do you

32:50

want to be known for ? And

32:53

once you've curated all of those those

32:55

are all elements of your brand . You

32:57

then need to think about where you're going , Like who's

32:59

the audience that I

33:02

want to attract , whether

33:04

that's cause you want to be hired , you

33:06

want to sell to someone , whether

33:09

it's because you wanna get a book deal

33:11

, whatever the goal or objective is and

33:13

who's that audience , you need to understand

33:15

the message that's important to them and

33:18

connect it back to that broader brand . That's

33:20

that combination of those four areas

33:23

I shared .

33:25

Yeah , that makes sense . I will

33:27

have to start looking

33:29

into that and thinking about that , yeah

33:31

, and getting more clear around

33:33

it , let's say like that . So

33:37

before we want to wrap up , I want to have

33:39

one more question . So if we pull out

33:41

the crystal ball now , what

33:44

do you see ? Where we're going with all

33:47

of this whole human leadership

33:49

, with this DEI ? Did you have any

33:52

insights where

33:54

the future of our work will be ?

33:59

Well , I hope

34:01

that this kind of leadership and

34:03

creating greater

34:06

DEI within our workplaces becomes

34:08

just standard . What we've seen over the last

34:10

number of years is there's mandates

34:13

to do it , whether it's the NASDAQ or

34:15

S&P , requiring

34:17

diversity on boards and within the workplaces

34:19

. I hope that just becomes the

34:22

way we operate . Period . And

34:25

where I see that going , there is recognition

34:27

. Today it's more people

34:29

see it as the right thing to do or because they're legislated

34:32

to do it . But the reality is

34:34

there's data

34:37

that proves the results of

34:39

doing it , whether it's increase in innovation

34:41

and problem solving , the reduction

34:44

of risk by having greater diversity

34:46

in the workforce , the fact that we see higher

34:48

performance because people feel

34:50

like they belong , they're much more engaged

34:53

and therefore their productivity rises

34:55

. So I see this

34:57

being much more of the

34:59

standard way of operating

35:02

versus the way we talked about . That you and I would

35:04

have seen 20 , 30 years ago in business . That

35:06

was much more of this top down approach

35:08

. I see this changing

35:11

and becoming much more of the way of the future

35:13

.

35:15

I think that would be wonderful

35:17

is maybe the wrong word . No , that

35:19

would be awesome , because to me it's

35:22

like , okay , it should just

35:24

be normal , and I

35:26

don't mean normal with what we usually

35:28

call normal , which is mostly

35:30

sick . But just so

35:34

, a given , just a given . Maybe that's

35:37

the better word than normal . A given , yeah

35:39

. So where can people find you ? If they're now intrigued

35:42

about what we were talking about

35:44

, you , tell us a little bit

35:46

. Where can they find you ? What do you do for your clients

35:48

? And also about your new book . I'm excited

35:51

.

35:52

Awesome . Well , so I have a website

35:54

which is victoria-peltacom

35:57

, and then people can choose to link out and connect

35:59

with me on whatever other social media platform

36:02

they choose LinkedIn , facebook , instagram Although

36:05

I will also say , if you just Google me , that should hopefully

36:07

demonstrate that I've been very focused on my personal

36:10

brand for a long time , because I will come up everywhere

36:12

. And then , in terms

36:14

of the work that I do , beyond being a C-suite

36:17

executive , I am a professional public

36:19

speaker and I talk in a number of topics around

36:21

resilience , personal branding , leadership and culture

36:23

, dei . I

36:26

also do a limited amount of coaching

36:28

on a few of those topics , and

36:30

two books are coming out . Actually

36:32

, one is on personal branding . That one's going to come

36:35

out in early 2024 , likely

36:37

in February , and then a few months

36:39

later I will have one coming out on whole human

36:41

leadership and how to advance that forward

36:43

in our businesses .

36:46

Oh , wow , I will put those two books

36:48

on top of my very long

36:50

list . So I'm an avid reader

36:52

, but the list of books I want

36:54

to read is also very long , but I'm very

36:56

interested in those Awesome

36:59

. So before

37:01

we wrap up , do you have any

37:04

last words ? Or did I not ask

37:06

you something that you feel like that should

37:08

still belong in this conversation

37:10

that we had , or anything else that

37:12

comes to your mind that you want to say ?

37:15

I know you asked me a lot , so that's great

37:17

, Conny . Thank you , you kept me on my toes

37:20

for sure . The one thing I would state

37:22

is part of being unstoppable

37:24

is recognizing that

37:27

you were the CEO of

37:29

you brand you , and

37:31

so you curate and define the narrative

37:33

in which you want people to know you . So , going back to sort of personal

37:36

brand , but also , whatever

37:38

your version of success looks like for

37:40

you , you are in control and they connected

37:42

to that . No excuses . You make a choice in

37:45

terms of how you're going to achieve that goal or

37:47

objective of yourself and move forward . So

37:49

I want people to recognize that they have control

37:52

and can claim power over

37:54

their careers or

37:56

, more broadly , like even personally the

37:58

goals or objectives that they set for themselves .

38:01

Yeah , thank you , I totally agree . Thank

38:03

you that very beautiful last words . Thanks so much

38:05

, victoria , for your time , thanks

38:07

for having me .