0:10

What's up, guys. Chris Avery with you on a

0:13

brand new episode of Chargers

0:15

Weekly. Coming up a bit later. Gil

0:17

Manzano, Southern California Newsgroup will

0:19

join me. We'll recap the week that

0:22

was at the podium during Chargers OTA's

0:25

but my first guest the NFL editor

0:27

at USA Today. He's also the author

0:29

of the Genius of Desperation. We

0:32

did this a few years ago. Doug Ferrar joints

0:34

me here on the podcast. Doug,

0:36

it's always a pleasure catching up with you, man. I love

0:39

your work. Thanks for being here. Yeah,

0:41

my pleasure. Got the powder. Blulan got

0:43

my nineteen sixty three Uncrowned Champs

0:45

books. So we're ready to go. Let's

0:48

go. Hey, there's so many places

0:50

we can start. You wrote about

0:52

Brandon Staley during the playoffs. Just

0:55

your initial thoughts and reaction

0:58

when he was hired to the Chargers

1:00

in January. Not

1:02

surprised. I mean, you

1:05

know, you get a lot of defensive coaches

1:07

who just ascend and all of a sudden

1:09

hate they're the guy. And he was obviously the guy last

1:12

year. Excuse

1:14

me. I think what he set up for

1:16

the Rams and they had the personnel to do it I

1:18

the Chargers have a lot of similar types of personnel,

1:21

and we can talk about that, but

1:24

certainly, you know

1:26

when he was Vic Fangio's assistant in Chicago

1:29

and the Bears just beat the daylights

1:31

out of the Rams. I think that was in twenty

1:34

eighteen, and like Jared Goff's worst

1:36

game ever, and Sean McVay said, that

1:38

guy, meaning Staley just killed

1:40

my offense. I need to hire him, and he did

1:43

and we all saw what happened, you

1:46

know, Staley. It's

1:49

from a just a tendency standpoint.

1:51

I mean, the Chargers played zone, I'm sixty one percent

1:53

of their snaps last season. They didn't blitz a lot.

1:56

They sent four rushers and eighty two percent of their

1:58

snaps, which ranked during the NFL. The Rams

2:00

played zone sixty six percent of the time,

2:03

sent four rush for seventy percent of the time. So

2:06

on the surface, just as far as personnel

2:09

and sort of usage, it's kind

2:11

of similar to what

2:13

Gusts did last year. But

2:15

what Staley does post snap is

2:18

really different, and I think it starts

2:20

with a lot of too high safety

2:22

looks. And this is where Derwin James

2:24

becomes obviously really interesting, because

2:27

he can also play all over the place, and they'd

2:30

run a lot of too high and then bring one of the

2:32

safeties down and play Cover one

2:34

or Cover three, and they were especially effective and Cover

2:37

three because then you'd have you know, John Johnson

2:39

come down. You

2:41

know Derwin James are playing that sort of star role,

2:44

or CD Jalen Rams would be playing that star wars.

2:46

I think Derwin can play as well, and

2:48

you never really knew what you were going to get. And then in

2:51

the front they didn't blitz a lot, but all

2:53

kinds of stunts, all kinds of line

2:55

movement, and certainly you

2:58

know with Bosa and you know Linval

3:01

Joseph, who I did a piece on the best pass

3:03

rushers from every gap last

3:05

week and Joseph was

3:07

in there as I believe the two. Why so,

3:10

they've got the personnel to do a

3:12

lot of different things after the snap,

3:15

presenting quarterbacks with one thing pre

3:17

snap and another thing post snap. I think

3:19

Steely was as good as any coach in the league

3:22

last year at that and I think you're going to see a lot

3:24

more of that from the Chargers. He's

3:26

been awesome to listen to Doug

3:29

from his first pressor to just throughout this

3:31

all season. He's very

3:34

he's very passionate, and it shines

3:36

through and his pressors. He talked

3:38

about personnel group, ex using them as a

3:40

weapon, being a matchup driven team.

3:43

And I look at guys like Aaron

3:45

Donald and Jalen Ramsey, his Donald

3:48

and Ramsey. Essentially here is Joey Bosa

3:50

and Derwin James. And I think in the last

3:53

chapter of your book you talk about just

3:55

the positional versatility of

3:57

guys, and I think he used like Dia Buchanan and

4:00

Tyron Matthews an example. Darwin

4:02

James, we have yet to really

4:05

see him outside his first year when he

4:07

was an All Pro as a rookie. But he

4:10

could play quarter, he could play

4:12

live backer, he could play safety. He's

4:14

a positionless player. He may be the second

4:16

or third best pass rusher on the

4:18

team. A healthy Darwin

4:21

James, what does he mean to this brand

4:23

as saiey defense. Well, I have the numbers

4:25

in his career and obviously it's been abbreviated by

4:27

injury and for insutly three hundred and twenty. This is pro

4:30

pro football focused. Three hundred and twenty snaps

4:32

on the defensive line, six hundred and seventeen in the

4:34

box, two thirty three at three staft,

4:36

two sixty five in the slot, thirty three at outside

4:38

corner. So he will play everywhere, and

4:43

I think in today's NFL you need at least

4:45

one of those guys, if not more,

4:48

certainly in the defensive backfield. If

4:50

you've got just static coverage at

4:52

this point, you're in trouble because

4:56

if offenses know what they're going to see.

4:58

And again we go back to what

5:01

Steely did pre stap and what he showed post snap

5:03

with the rams. If you're

5:05

just doing static and that's it, uh,

5:08

you've got problems on defense, and certainly

5:11

with the Derwin James. I know Staley has spoken

5:13

about Derwin's versatility. He

5:16

could be that star that's sort of movable, that

5:19

joker who can you

5:21

know, it's another way

5:23

to affect the quarterback's view

5:26

of the field because well, why is he up

5:28

here? You know he's kind of playing like a spot deep safety

5:30

role. Well, he may be crashing down

5:33

to stop the you

5:35

know, the inside slant drag route

5:37

and you didn't see it coming because he was way up

5:39

here. It's a lot of deception,

5:41

it's a lot of assignment correctness. And I think

5:44

you know with Drwin James, certainly with

5:46

the Santis Samuel Jr. U Mike

5:48

Davis one of the more underrated zone quarterbacks.

5:50

I mean, you've got the personnel to

5:54

really make what Staley

5:56

prefers to do on defense important

5:59

and that sort of quote unquote positionless player

6:01

is a big part of it. You

6:03

talk about opportunistic corners.

6:06

You know, Chris Harris Junior has been doing that his whole

6:08

career. But Sante Samuel Junior

6:10

you wrote why he's a perfect fit

6:13

for what brand it Saley does. I don't know if you

6:15

can go into that a little bit. And then also just a piggyback

6:18

off that you had Mike Davis, I think as

6:20

one of the eleven best zone corners in football

6:22

going into last year. So you

6:24

know, you see Casey Hayward depart,

6:27

but when you get Darwin James back, your resigned

6:29

Mike Davis, Chris Harris Junior you hope

6:32

is healthy, and then you bring into Sante Samuel

6:34

Junior who can get the football,

6:37

that's a pretty nice starting point for the

6:39

Chargers. The Rams also played a

6:41

lot of Cover six, which as you know, is cover two

6:44

to one side quarters to the other. So you're

6:46

again, you're you're looking generic, too

6:48

high, and all of a sudden it becomes something else.

6:50

Well, I did a pre draft

6:53

study of the best cornerbacks and every

6:55

type of coverage, and Santea Samuel was the best

6:57

corner cover six corner because

6:59

he can play a you know, sort

7:01

of a lane to one side, or he can play

7:03

at quarter of the field. He can

7:05

play quarter, quarter half, he can he's very

7:07

aware, especially in zone coverage. He can

7:10

do whatever you want. That's

7:12

a big deal. Chris Harris

7:15

and I've been writing about Chris probably

7:17

since twenty thirteen, when I really started paying attention

7:19

to slot burrs. I don't think it's

7:21

an exaggeration to say that Chris Harris is the best

7:23

slot defender in NFL history. Just you

7:26

look at the body of work and one

7:28

of the things that I think makes him I've talked to Chris

7:30

a few times when he was in Denver, and he's

7:33

such a smart guy and so aware

7:35

of the entire defense. I

7:38

know Staley has talked a lot about having John

7:40

Johnson with the Rams, who's

7:42

now in Cleveland. It's sort of a shot caller on defense.

7:44

I could see Harris kind of playing back role as

7:48

well. And then Davis, Yeah, he's just you

7:50

know, really smooth mover

7:53

again, understands that zone stuff and they you

7:56

know, Staley will play some man, but

7:58

it's really it's not about the old

8:00

school, you know, Cover three. We're just gonna

8:03

go our guys against your guys. It's

8:05

you know, it looks like Cover two or

8:07

it looks like two men, and all of a sudden it's based

8:10

Cover three and you're like, well read and recie

8:12

this coming. And it's Covered three with some interesting

8:14

wrinkles in the box and out

8:16

to the flats and you know, up the scene and

8:18

stuff like that. So yeah, it's

8:22

again you can go back to the personnel and the fit and

8:24

you can see why Staley is pretty excited about getting

8:27

this defense on the field. You know too,

8:29

Doug, I'm really excited to see what Nasa

8:32

Adderlei does this year because that's

8:34

another guy who has not played with Darwin

8:36

James. He had some injury trouble's first year.

8:40

Both he and Kenneth Murray talked about

8:42

how they're excited about

8:45

this system of what it presents for them. Kenneth

8:47

Murray thinks he's gonna be able to go a little bit more downhill

8:50

what he did at Oklahoma. But Naz Adderley

8:52

he got to football at Delaware and

8:55

I can envision him in Darwin James

8:58

doing some damage in that secondary.

9:01

That's another guy who you know. Drew

9:03

Trenkle was hurt last year. Kenneth obviously

9:05

he started all sixteen games, but he was a rookie

9:07

and he was kind of kind of finding his way

9:09

a little bit. But ADDERLEI

9:12

is the guy for me that could really be an

9:14

X factor that secondary. Well,

9:17

if you have and my comp

9:19

for Adderle coming out of school

9:21

was Darniell Savage just

9:23

a great deep third, and

9:26

I think if Adderle can become

9:29

that in the NFL, if

9:31

you have that deep third, eraser, it allows

9:34

you to do so many more different because now the post

9:36

is taken out, you know, the deep

9:38

seem to either side is taken out. Because you have that

9:40

guy. At that point,

9:43

Derwin can do everything. He

9:45

becomes you know, the X factor,

9:48

that's what he becomes. He's he's he's

9:50

the versatile guy. He's that sort

9:52

of star. So then you have him as kind of the Jalen

9:54

Ramsey. Maybe, um,

9:58

maybe Adderlee is the sort of John John and the

10:00

deep guy who can come down who

10:02

can also cover. Um, yeah,

10:05

that that becomes a big part of it. And having

10:07

that deep because if you don't have that,

10:10

then you have to run more standard too high. You

10:12

can't do as many post snap shifts

10:14

in coverage and quarterbacks having

10:16

easier time a bit, and that's obviously not what

10:19

you want. Absolutely, and

10:21

you know you flip it to offense. Justin Herbert

10:23

and year to a new offensive system.

10:25

Joe Lombardi comes in, gonna

10:28

bring a lot of that New Orleans influence. He

10:30

spoke at the podium this week, also

10:32

said, hey we got we got Shane Day as a quarterbacks coach,

10:34

came from San Francisco, Frank Smith

10:36

and company come from Vegas with

10:41

justin last year. What did you

10:44

see that impressed you the most, that

10:46

maybe surprised you a little bit. I was

10:48

very surprised. Um, you

10:50

know, it's not like I thought Herbert was going to be terrible,

10:53

but I didn't see at

10:55

Oregon what I saw with the Chargers,

10:58

and it was pretty immediate. And I

11:00

think when that happens. As evaluators,

11:02

you can you try and get this right, and sometimes

11:05

you go with an offensive

11:07

system the players in as opposed to the players

11:10

traits and attributes in isolation. And

11:12

I think with her what I did that a little too much. That

11:14

Organ offense was kind of the

11:17

best way I could describe it as it was a kind of a hesitation

11:19

offense. He had to wait a lot for his guys to

11:21

come over. It wasn't really a scheme

11:24

to open system as much as he would

11:26

like to be for a quarterback. So what I saw

11:28

on tape from Herbert or Organ was a lot of hesitation,

11:30

a lot of kind of throwing on the

11:32

run or you know, moving out of the pocket and then kind

11:34

of freezing and you know, what am I supposed

11:36

to do? So he comes in and

11:39

not only right away is he just blowing

11:42

it up setting records from was

11:45

it? I think his first five games

11:48

he had, you know, he was setting records

11:50

from the start, and he did it in a situation where

11:53

they kind of expected Tyrod Taylor and then you

11:55

know, Tyron Taylor couldn't for obvious reasons,

11:57

so they just kind of throw them in one hundred miles

12:00

an hour and he just takes it. He was so

12:02

much more decisive, He

12:05

saw the field so much better than I expected,

12:08

and you know that the under

12:10

pressure stuff really was great.

12:12

And I think the two

12:14

most remarkable things that had the numbers here the

12:18

thing that really impressed me for

12:20

any rookie quarterback to come in and say, Okay,

12:22

I'm going to define to the defense what you

12:24

can and can't do when you pressured,

12:26

justin Herbert last year, it did not

12:29

go well for you. When you threw man coverage

12:31

at it, it didn't go well for you. Pressured

12:33

last season, Herbert completed one hundred

12:36

and ten one hundred and ten one hundred and ninety

12:38

three passes for almost fifteen hundred

12:40

yards, thirteen touchdowns just two interceptions. Only

12:43

Russell Wilson and Josh Allen had more touchdown passes,

12:45

and no quarterback who took at least fifty percent of

12:47

his snaps last season at a higher pass rating under pressure

12:50

than Herbert's ninety nine point four. And it wasn't

12:52

close. Matthew Stafford finished second

12:54

at ninety one point eight, and against man

12:56

coverage he was in better. So when you

12:59

have a rookie quarter back coming

13:01

into the NFL with all the complications luring

13:03

in his system, kind of I'm learning what you knew,

13:07

you know, I think you're going to find that with Josh Palmer.

13:09

Some of these college offenses just

13:12

don't showcase the players the

13:14

way they should be, and then they hit the NFL

13:17

and they get this bump in efficiency and effectiveness,

13:20

and certainly Herbert did that. You know, there

13:22

was I think even if Joe

13:24

Burrow had lasted his entire rookie season,

13:27

I think Herbert would have been the rookie of the year going

13:29

away. It just there was an incredibly impressive

13:32

season, and right from the start, it was

13:34

like something about that offense

13:36

just unleashed him and he said, Okay,

13:39

now I can be who I really am. And we all saw it. And

13:42

this was with an offensive line

13:44

that was injured and was

13:47

kind of at the bottom half of the league. And you're

13:49

bringing Corey Lindsley your draft for Shawn

13:51

Slater, you get Matt Feiler from the Steelers,

13:54

Odeabushi, and you hope Riyan Bulaga

13:56

can stay healthy in twenty twenty

13:59

one. So you have the offensive line now,

14:01

uh, Keenan Allen, Mike Williams,

14:04

Austin Ekeler. I'm curious what

14:07

you think of what Joe Lombardi's

14:10

going to do. And obviously we look

14:12

back his time in New Orleans, He's

14:15

had a lot of good players, from Drew

14:18

Brees to Sprowls to Kimara to

14:20

Michael Thomas to Colston. What

14:24

do you think this offense is

14:26

going to look like? And we could start with

14:29

Eckler, who really in

14:31

his brief time with the Charges, He's

14:33

lined up all over the field and I could

14:35

see this happening again. And I think we talked about

14:38

this off line. Yep. Well

14:41

let's start with the offensive line because and I'm not trying

14:44

to bag on Dan Phoene, he just you know he he

14:47

tied for the most pressures allowed among centers

14:49

last year with kind of

14:51

government of the Jets, and now I think Phoene's with the Jets. So

14:54

yeah, I believe

14:56

Corey Lindsay allowed three total pressures last

14:59

season, a high volume passing

15:01

game that went through the NFC Championship. Pretty

15:03

good, best center, He's the best center in the NFL,

15:06

I believe Lindsley is. And

15:08

then you get Rashaun Slater, who the last

15:10

time we saw him was beating the daylight side of a Chase

15:13

Young, who is the ragining defensive rookie

15:15

of the year, and now he gets to protect the blindside of the ragining

15:17

offensive Rookie of the year, pretty good, and

15:19

we'll see that. We'll see that week one too, Doug,

15:22

which is I know, football team. I love

15:24

it. That's gonna be fun. So you

15:26

start there, Um, Herbert

15:29

gets to kind of get used to, Hey,

15:31

I'm not getting you know, I'm not getting flushed

15:34

out all the time. Yeah, you

15:36

know, we all know who Keenan Allen is. He's He's

15:38

the He's the ultimate. I'm

15:41

going to get open. I might I might not

15:43

be the fastest, i might be the most explosive,

15:45

but I'll always get open. Pre eminent route

15:47

runner of his era. We all know this. Um,

15:50

you know they've got some explosive guys. If

15:52

they wanted to a more deep passing game, I

15:55

think the Saints didn't do that as much the last couple

15:57

of seasons. That was probably more about

16:00

Breeze. And then when Breeze is hurt, Bridgewater

16:02

not really a deep pass. And then you get the case in hell

16:04

thing. We don't really know what that is. But

16:08

when Breeze was at his peak, I mean, they

16:10

were playing the ball down the field all

16:12

the time. The most interesting thing

16:14

to me and Lombardi has already spoken about

16:16

this with Ekeler. He's compared him

16:18

to three backs in New Orleans,

16:21

Reggie Bush, Darren Darren Sprowls,

16:23

and Alvin Kamara. And what

16:26

are those guys have in common? You go back to the Reggie

16:28

Bush era, I would argue, I

16:30

would pause it that the Saints with Reggie

16:32

Bush invented the need for the

16:34

base nickel defense. Because you've

16:36

got Reggie Bush in the backfield

16:39

aligning to the slot two hundred times a season.

16:41

That third linebacker has to come off the field

16:44

because it's a it's there are

16:46

very few linebackers, especially at that time, we

16:48

weren't drafting these two hundred and twenty pound

16:51

you know, safety's playing linebacker in the first

16:53

round. And then you go to Sprowls

16:56

who have that same thing, and certainly Kamara. And

17:00

you know, I was watching a rewatching Eckler

17:02

kind of in preparation

17:04

for this, and I was like, oh, there's you know, scoring

17:07

a you know, wheel route

17:09

touchdown against the Chiefs from outside, and he's

17:11

moved from outside to the spot, moving from

17:13

the backfield into the formation and just slaughter

17:15

outside. You can move him all over

17:18

the place, and it kind of becomes like we're talking about

17:20

Berwin James as the movable

17:22

guy. I think it's just as important

17:25

offense to have players you can move all

17:27

over the place pre snap, and

17:29

it affects what the defense does post snap. And

17:32

Echoler is certainly that guy as

17:34

good as anyone in the league. When it comes to wherever

17:37

you put him in the formation. He's not you

17:39

know, leab Unvella his peepers

17:41

like this. He's not just running wheel

17:44

routes. This guy can run a full route

17:46

tree. And when you have that

17:48

as an offensive coordinator, especially

17:51

when you're an OC used

17:53

to backs who can do that, it's

17:56

just, you know, you can kind of take more of your playbook

17:58

over to this dug.

18:00

I've always said this, I don't even consider Austin

18:02

Ekeler running back. He's just he's that, ow

18:05

right, the offensive weapon who you put everywhere.

18:09

What are the reasons too you beef up

18:11

the offensive line. You do it for Justin Herbert obviously,

18:13

but you also do it to, you know, open

18:15

up some holes for guys like Eckler and

18:18

Justin Jackson and Joshua Kelly

18:20

and Larry Roundrey, the third who they got from Missouri

18:23

I'm just curious when you look at what

18:26

the Saints were able to do in the run game

18:28

in recent years, how

18:30

can that help a quarterback like

18:33

Justin? Especially if you can get guys

18:35

like Justin Jackson, who you know was

18:37

so healthy at Northwestern hasn't been able

18:39

to really stay healthy as much in

18:41

the pros Joshua Kelly

18:44

from UCLA. If you can get those guys

18:46

go when it four or five yards a clip, what

18:49

does that do for Justin in the passing game?

18:51

Yeah, I mean they don't have a nick Job per se.

18:53

They don't have the power back who's gonna get fifteen hundred

18:56

yards and whatever? And you don't need that NFL,

18:59

you don't need Alkyl back. There are some people who say

19:01

running backs don't matter. I don't agree. I

19:03

think every position matters, but

19:06

certainly in this I mean, Lindsley

19:08

is a dynamic run blocker, and you

19:10

go back to his time in Green Bay.

19:12

Obviously they had Aaron Jones who was all over

19:14

the place and catching a town of passes, so um,

19:18

there's that familarity to familiar to there. And

19:20

you know Lindsley is a very agile

19:23

blocker, but he's also he can also be physical

19:25

and Slater, my goodness, that guy's a bully.

19:27

I mean, he's agile, he can,

19:30

you know, flare out. He's good in the ark and all

19:32

that. But we surprised he

19:34

went at thirteen. Am

19:37

I surprise he lasted that long? Yes he

19:39

was? He was. I mean really,

19:42

Penny Sue was my OT

19:45

one, but Slater was my OT one

19:47

A. It was a toss up for me. He was a place.

19:50

Um so well,

19:52

the surprise he lasted that long. Yeah, and I'm

19:55

thinking, gosh, Tom Telesco, that that

19:58

whole staff must have been just so happy to o, hey,

20:00

you know, maybe the best offense to tackle in

20:03

this draft class falls into our lap at a position

20:05

of desperate mead and here we go. Yeah,

20:08

no question, Doug, this is

20:11

awesome stuff. Man. I know our fans are really

20:13

going to appreciate your red site. As

20:16

we kind of slow down before a trainee

20:18

camp, I always try to give

20:20

people book recommendations and kind

20:23

of ramp up for the for the twenty twenty

20:25

one season. The Genius of Desperation

20:27

you wrote it a few years ago. For those

20:29

who don't know of the book, explain

20:32

the bucket where they can get it. Oh my pleasure.

20:35

Thank you. It is a schematic history in

20:37

pro football from nineteen twenty to the Almost

20:39

President was published in twenty eighteen.

20:42

I think most of the stuff still applies. As

20:44

you talked about the positional football stuff

20:47

in the final chapter where I

20:49

could do it, you know, part two,

20:51

I would probably do three more chapters on

20:53

just that. I talked more about

20:56

prestap motion and you know, matchup

20:59

defense is and how it's to become a matchup league.

21:01

But yeah, it's um, you know, really

21:04

starts in the fifties, and I have a whole chapter in

21:06

the American Football League. So there's a guy named Sid Gilman

21:08

who's mentioned quite a lot. Um. Yeah,

21:11

it's it was a fun book to write, and I hope

21:13

people enjoy it. Awesome,

21:16

Doug, I kept you longer than I said, but I

21:18

enjoyed the conversation. I

21:21

hope to see you this fall. Come on out

21:23

to camp, come on out to Sofi Stadium, and we'd love

21:25

to have you. Well, I know I'll be

21:27

there for the Super Bowl. Hopefully I can get there before absolutely,

21:30

maybe i'll see absolutely.

21:33

Hey, you know what you're in Seattle, right? I think the Chargers

21:35

play the Seahawks in preseason so maybe

21:38

maybe there maybe the chapter preseason

21:40

game. Yeah, dog, thanks

21:42

so much, man, thank you well.

21:45

It was a busy week in Coast

21:47

of Mesa now joined by Gilmanzano

21:50

Southern California News Group compas

21:53

On the Beat Big Time podcast

21:55

Chad Ocho Cinco Gil this

21:57

week. Yeah, it was a fun

22:00

compos on the Beat episode with Chad john

22:02

saon Ochocinco has a big fight on

22:04

Sunday on the Circus that is, Floyd

22:07

was against Logan Paul the YouTubers. So it

22:09

was fun to kind of catch up and tie

22:11

in both worlds boxing in football. You know, I love

22:13

both sports, Chris, no question.

22:16

Well, you know we gotta listen to that and then are

22:18

you getting that fight? By the way, Yeah,

22:21

that's the plan. When I saw I was under sixty

22:24

bucks, I said, okay, I'll go all in, but not anything

22:26

on their sixty dollars. So I know it's not a traditional

22:29

boxing car, but I'm kind of sucker sometimes

22:31

when it comes to Floyma, whether I have

22:33

too, I always say with a fight like I'm not

22:35

gonna get to fight. I'm not gonna get to fight, and then

22:37

it gets three hours two hours an hour

22:39

closer like I'm gonna get to fight that

22:42

always happens. Oh

22:44

well, hey man, I'd like to be a copas on the Beat

22:46

one time. Yeah, if I can, definitely, let's

22:49

go. Man. You know, we talk a lot of chargers, Chris, and

22:51

I know you do more than charges lakers too, and that's what

22:53

we do as well. So you're versator like us. You gotta

22:55

jump on it and talk all

22:57

the sports, you know, because I don't you bring the knowledge. Man, Let's

23:00

let's talk all things LA sports. But hey,

23:03

it was a busy week at the podium.

23:05

I mean we heard from all three coordinators,

23:08

We heard from Kenneth Murray, we heard

23:10

from nas Adelie. It went like

23:12

ninety plus minutes. There was

23:14

a lot to take away. What kind of stood

23:17

out to you? Yeah, that was

23:19

probably the longest time I spent on zoom and the

23:21

last year. But yeah, you're right there, there was a lot

23:23

to kind of consume. But I feel

23:25

like all the Beat reporters kind of agreed that the main

23:28

takeover it was kind of Murray. Uh you know

23:30

what kind of Murray? Last year we kept trying

23:32

to wait to see when you have a breakout game. And

23:34

I think it kind of happened in that Debacco

23:36

Patriots game when they were down forty five. He was the

23:39

only one showing the heart and fighting too. It was all

23:41

over the field, yeah, and he was moving and from there

23:43

you saw he picked it up. But they would kind of

23:45

Murray it was a hard scheme to kind of

23:47

you know, grasp it, guzz Proudley because they asked

23:49

him a lot to kind of be a pass coverage guy,

23:52

defend the middle, limited the big plays,

23:55

and for him, that's not what he didn't call it. So now

23:57

with Brandon Staley and Ronaldo Hill, then

23:59

knew it was and the coaches,

24:01

you know, they say you're gonna be a downhill a

24:03

linebacker, and Kenneth Murray said,

24:05

that's music to his ears because that's

24:07

what he did in college. You know, last year,

24:10

a lot of the reporters are kind of wondering, when is he gonna a

24:12

blitz more, When are he gonna be a pass rusher? And maybe

24:14

he won't be kind of a you know, a heavy

24:16

pass rusher, but he's gonna go out

24:18

to the ball and when it comes to the running

24:20

and passing the coverages, he's gonna be

24:22

downhill, like you said, and you can see him very happy.

24:25

So I think for Kenneth Murray to kind of

24:27

hear that from the new coach and stuff, I'm guessing

24:29

very excited for your too. Yeah, he said

24:31

in his strengths obviously

24:34

what he did at Oklahoma and Gil, I'm

24:36

just wondering out loud, like, had your

24:38

trank Will been healthy last year,

24:41

would Murray's role have been

24:43

the same or would he have been able to do a little

24:46

bit more of that? So having trank

24:48

Will next to Murray's just gonna make both

24:50

of them better players. But but I

24:52

wonder too, with trank Will

24:55

in the mix and playing

24:57

beside Murray this year, what

25:00

that linebacking corps is gonna look

25:02

like, because you know, Staley's gonna put both

25:04

of those guys in a position to be successful

25:06

and cater to their strikes. Yeah. I don't want

25:08

to say that loss of Drew Tranco really hurt Kenneth

25:10

Murray, you know, obro I hurt the team. But I think

25:12

Kenneth Murray is so versatile and has a deep

25:15

skill set that you know, the prior coaching

25:17

ste probably thought, Okay, we lost Trancle,

25:19

But I think Kevin Murray can handle this. It might be a little

25:21

rocky, and maybe it took a little longer,

25:23

but after, you know, like I mentioned that Patriots game,

25:26

he figured out and maybe for this year

25:28

it might work out for the best. He's an all around linebacker,

25:31

very versatil. Okay, he won't he asked him to defend

25:33

the pass or you know, defend the tight

25:35

end, he could do it because he has experienced. So you're

25:38

probably right, Chris, maybe that wasn't

25:40

a plan at the beginning. Maybe it would have been no Drew Trancor

25:42

handling most of the coverages when

25:44

it comes out, because he was great in that as

25:47

a rookie, And now we forget because

25:50

they didn't play last year that this is how how

25:52

how promising this duel could be. And we saw

25:54

it at OTA's in the middle as Drew

25:56

Tranco and Kenneth Murray forty nine and number

25:59

nine two nine's there how to think about it,

26:01

and that could be a pretty fun duel. And

26:04

it's kind of the same thing that we say about Derwin

26:06

James and Nastalily, like this dude could be great, but they

26:08

got to be healthy. So maybe for twenty twenty

26:10

one, now with a different scheme and

26:13

a coach who likes to kind of bring out the best when it comes

26:15

to what you do best in terms of talent,

26:17

that could be fun to see this dual linebacker

26:20

in twenty twenty one. You know, naz

26:22

Atli is another guy that I'm really

26:24

excited about his prospects in twenty

26:27

twenty one. Play next to Derwin

26:29

James. Uh, he was. He

26:31

was fun to listen to it the podium as well, because

26:33

I think he started it by when someone asked him

26:35

about the defense, he just said, just to put it

26:38

plainly, I'm very, very excited.

26:40

Ronaldo Hill said that he's been taking a kind of

26:42

a leadership role. He said, they've been doing

26:45

this thing cahoot where they like do these these

26:47

app based quizzes on different things,

26:49

and Nas has been dominating everybody

26:51

in that. So that's another guy who

26:54

will you go back And I was just talking to Doug Farr

26:56

about this, you go back to what he did at Delaware.

26:59

He got the full ball. Him

27:01

next to Derwin James in this new

27:03

look secondary is one of those kind

27:06

of key storylines I'm looking at in July when

27:08

training camp stores. Yeah, for Nas,

27:10

you know, it was a rocky sophomore

27:12

year, and you could call it a rookie year because he was hurt

27:15

his rookie year. And when we first met Na,

27:18

right, yeah, it was like a restaurant year and he

27:20

was starting and he got the hand with but it was a little rocky.

27:22

But but with Nas when we first met him, you

27:24

get the sense of excitement, how eager he was

27:26

to play next to Drwin James and on the football field,

27:29

and maybe that kind of you know, hurt him a little bit. And then rookie,

27:31

you're being too eager. But now you're seeing the eagerness

27:34

when it comes to the classroom. You know, Ronaldo Hill said

27:36

that this trivia game is like who you said,

27:38

Chris, uh yeah, yeah,

27:40

that he's winning everything. So that shows the type

27:43

of guy he is. When it comes to any type

27:45

of you know, you know, competitive event off the

27:47

field or off the field with cars or whatever, it's

27:49

gonna be Nas leading the way because he's that exciting

27:51

kind of player. So you're right, you

27:53

know, when it comes to the new coach, just how a lot

27:56

of the players get excited. And I think it was a big win for the

27:58

defensive guys to get Brandon Stalea and now the

28:00

Hill. And we now the Hill being a former defensive

28:02

back in the NFL for many years to benefit

28:04

guys like nas Adelie. It's Michael Davis, Asante,

28:07

Samuel Jror, a guy who's done him before for many years.

28:09

So I think for nas it could be a big year

28:12

three. And that's the thing for for

28:14

the for the charges the higher Brandon states there's

28:16

a lot of guys who are drafted very high UNUSU,

28:19

Artillery and Adderlie and

28:22

Kenneth Murray who are kind of you know, finding

28:24

try to find their niche. And I think this coach is that could

28:26

be that staff to you know, get the best of what

28:28

these guys do best on the field. That's

28:30

a great point. I mean from from Tillery

28:33

to Murray to Tranquil to Adderlee.

28:36

If you can get those guys to kind of take

28:38

that next step in their career in

28:40

this new defense. Obviously with Thorwyn

28:42

coming back, and it's

28:45

it's easy to say, and I could just put it plainly

28:47

like Dorwin is going to

28:50

make this thing go. Like if he's healthy

28:52

for sixteen games. He saw what he did

28:54

his rookie year. He's the type of guy

28:56

who can make an indelible

28:58

impact every single game. Gil,

29:01

and and then just the opportunistic

29:04

guys in the back end, Sante,

29:06

Samuel, Chris, Harris Junior. You hope is healthy,

29:09

Mike Davis, uh that Russian

29:11

cover working together with Bosa and obviously

29:13

seeing you Chenner Nuoso, who you mentioned. I think

29:15

you asked the question of run Hill about you,

29:17

Chenner Nuosu. This is a big year for him

29:20

getting to the quarterback, kind of taking

29:22

that role of Melvin Ingram and we'll see

29:25

what he does with it. Yeah, you know,

29:27

before I get to Dertwin James Woolsu. It

29:30

is gonna be a bigger favorite, Hi, because I don't

29:32

think Bob Ingram was coming back to the Chargers. And you

29:34

can't just let it be Joya, Bosa and and the rest

29:36

of the guys. You we gotta learn these other names, these

29:38

other guys like Jared Terry Nusu.

29:41

And it's definitely this this game that

29:43

likes to blitz a lot. I know, but with the prior

29:45

regime it was a lot of you know, Russian four. But these guys

29:48

are gonna rush way more guys that you need a pressure

29:50

and sacks and NUSA. Going into year four,

29:53

this is year it's just time to shine. He's kind of been a rotational

29:56

player and maybe you know that's kind of hurt both sides

29:58

that he's out on the field often. But now it's That's why I

30:00

asked when all the hill, what have you seen from this guy? Because

30:02

he's showing flashes now on Derwin

30:05

James. He's gonna make everybody's life easier.

30:08

We haven't really talked to joy Bus because we know what joy Bull

30:10

is gonna do every Sunday. But he

30:12

needs help too. Like he's out there kind of you know, being

30:14

a one man team. He can't have all the pressures

30:16

alone. So Derwin James could be a pass rusher,

30:19

Derwinns could be a linebacker, he could be a safety, it could

30:21

be a cornerback. And it's a lot of pressure to put

30:23

on one guy, Derwin James. But if he

30:25

stays healthy, it's gonna help out the entire

30:27

defense. And I think this is when the even Deeves could

30:29

be, you know, maybe even better than twenty eighteen

30:31

in the one Toil Games. This even could be you know, top

30:34

five, And we say that every year because on paper,

30:36

it's a very stack defense that it looks

30:38

pretty, but they gotta be healthy. You gotta

30:40

have du Tracle, and you gotta have of

30:42

course Derwin James, and you gotta bring some health for Joey

30:44

Boss as well. You know, just

30:47

just talking out loud here. Justin Jones is

30:49

another guy who he's

30:52

kind of in that category of young

30:54

players who you hope

30:57

and expect to take that next step in

30:59

this branded Staley system. So, I

31:01

mean, we talked about Tillery, Jones,

31:04

Murray Tranquil Adderleie,

31:07

Mike Davis. That's another guy that they said they

31:09

can get more out of and you know,

31:11

Mike had a good year last year. Uh,

31:14

the coordinators all spoke Ronaldo

31:17

Hill. I like what you said. I

31:20

think the fact that he has that playing experience,

31:23

and you know, Durwin

31:26

and nas can can look at a guy

31:28

who's like day, this guy played in the league. He knows

31:30

what it's like to prepare

31:33

for a game practice. So

31:35

I think that connection of having

31:38

a former player who's you know,

31:40

fairly recently removed from the league as

31:43

your coordinator, that's a

31:45

big deal. Yeah, you know, Craiz,

31:47

I'd like to go back to the high arm projects for a head

31:49

coach. There's a lot of talk about getting Justin

31:51

Herbert offensive guru quarterback

31:54

whisper, because when you have a prize

31:56

quarterback that young, you want you you hunt to focus

31:59

on him. We forget how much Tom Telesco

32:01

has invested on the defense. And you mentioned Justin

32:03

Jones and you gave a whole lineup and I'm like, yeah,

32:06

that guy too, that guy too, and they

32:08

need to reach a potential and they were a

32:11

yeah, they're all and that's why, you know, I think I saw that one

32:13

of the youngest teams in the NFL. And but

32:15

there's a lot of potential on promise and you mention

32:18

Inaldo Hill and I'm eager to see

32:20

how they unlock that potential with all these

32:22

guys. And you know, we haven't even talked about Limball

32:24

Joseph, but he's gonna do what he does every sun that we know

32:26

about that. But there's a lot of guys

32:28

on the defense and I think this coach and said Brandon

32:30

Stayley could take to the next level. And we talk

32:32

a lot about Brandon staling what he does as

32:35

a as a play caller. We did with the Rams was great

32:37

and an off scene that was so strange to make him

32:39

the top raid of defense in the NFL. We

32:41

forget about Ronaldo Hill. It's gonna be kind of a brain

32:43

story back and forth, Like I'm curious to see what Coronaldo

32:46

Hill bring to the table. There's a reason why there's

32:48

a reason why Brandon Sailor brought him because he's

32:50

a big fan of his. So I think having two minds like

32:52

that a workout for the best for everybody and

32:54

for these pharmacing players on the field. Another

32:58

guy I always enjoy listening to is Darius

33:00

Switt in the second the special teams coordinator.

33:03

He's always impressive. I

33:06

love hearing some of the things he had to say.

33:08

I think my favorite quote I put on Twitter

33:10

it's like, if you're gonna ask me a question, just

33:13

don't bring me an apple. Come with a specific

33:15

question. There's so many guys that

33:18

they have to evaluate from now until

33:21

the end of August. Skill in terms

33:23

of who's gonna make this team and special

33:26

teams is that path? Are you going to excel

33:28

on special teams? We know what happened

33:31

last year. It's well documented. There's

33:33

gonna be a competition at all

33:35

levels of special teams and

33:38

it was fun for coach Switten

33:40

to kind of outline kind of what

33:42

the expectations are. He said, he puts

33:45

together voiceovers, PowerPoint

33:47

presentations. These guys have all the

33:49

tools they need to know exactly

33:52

what's expected of them. Yeah, you know, with Derek,

33:55

he's an interesting guy and I love talking to him because

33:57

he keeps it honest and he wanted to ask

33:59

all the tough questions and you see that. You know what

34:01

the players as well. And yeah, last year was rocking for special

34:04

teams. We all know that. So when

34:06

it got that ugly, why be shy with the questions?

34:08

You know, get better, you know, improved. And

34:10

I like that Darres is bringing competition.

34:13

You look at the specialists. There's multiple kickers

34:15

on the rosters, multiple long snappers, multiple

34:18

punters. So after last year,

34:20

everybody's job better be on the line and you better

34:22

bring your best uh come training cap because

34:24

Dere's twins is gonna gonna you know, you know, weed out

34:26

people who are not meant to be on this roster. And

34:29

he's so competitive too. He's talking about betting one

34:32

dollar for for games and you just

34:34

talk about betting. He's like, He's like, I don't care. I checked

34:36

the rules already, you could bet dollars It's okay, we

34:38

all make money in this league. So I love

34:40

that honesty. And you could

34:42

tell that he had a big influence in the draft

34:45

because a lot of these guys they drafted, they

34:47

played special teams. They know how to block, they know the

34:49

fundamentals, and now it's up to Darres

34:51

and kind put out together. And they even brought a veterans

34:54

like Kyler facrol Uh and Ryan Smaith

34:56

who just won a Super Bowl. That's gonna be a big overall.

34:58

So I think Oberall Tom Tolasco

35:00

really revowed there's special teams and

35:02

now it's the keys are handed to Darius Onetam.

35:05

Some of those core guys that frankly,

35:07

the Chargers didn't have last year. When when when Adrian

35:10

Phillips went to the Patriots and

35:12

Derek Watt, for instance, went to the

35:15

Steelers and Dzubnar went

35:18

to Tennessee, those are guys who are core

35:20

special teamers. You bring in some of those

35:22

vets and then you mix in you know,

35:24

you have nine draft picks. There's a lot of these

35:26

guys, from Nick Neeman to Larry Rowntree

35:29

who didn't necessarily play special teams in college

35:31

because so much was expected

35:33

of them on the offensive and defensive

35:35

side of the ball, respectively. But they've done

35:38

it before. And you know, when

35:40

you have nine picks in

35:42

camp, you better believe you

35:44

better play special teams and you better excel

35:47

us special teams if you're gonna make the roster. Yeah,

35:50

I look at wide receiver. That position

35:52

is a long jam is loaded

35:55

and it's kind of a great gil That's

35:57

that's the storyline on fasting

36:00

By because we know Keenan, we know Mike. You

36:02

know you draft Josh Palmer in the third round for

36:04

a reason, t Billy, Jalen, Guyden,

36:07

kJ Hill, Joe Reid. That's

36:09

a crowded wide receiver group right

36:11

now. Yeah, you could keep going. There's so many

36:13

guys and probably the way to do it to win a

36:16

roster spotted the special team. Maybe

36:18

Joe Reid figures it out as a kicker returner and that

36:20

helps him out to stay on on the roster. Uh,

36:22

you know, maybe kJ Hill gets better as the partment

36:24

returner and they stays on the roster. But yeah, you're

36:27

right when you draft a guy on the third round, like you know, like

36:29

Josh Palmer, and that tells you

36:31

they want these other guys to contept it up. Just competition,

36:33

so you know there's gonna be a whole lot

36:35

of storylines in training. Kevin I mentioned all these specialists

36:38

there. I'm gonna be watching the kickers too as well.

36:40

But wide receiver is gonna be very intriguing. But

36:43

it's it's good for Justin Herbert. There's a lot of weapons

36:45

and we know just a Hubert likes to spread the ball around

36:48

and when we talk about Mike Williams and Ken

36:50

An a lot, but Tyrn Johnson

36:52

and Jalen Guyden were great stretching

36:54

the field. So but there's not a lot of snaps

36:57

for everybody, so you know, four guys gotta

36:59

win these these snaps. It's

37:01

a great segue into Joe Lombardi,

37:03

who we got to hear from for the first time in

37:06

a while, and it was

37:08

refreshing to hear, you know him talk

37:10

about this offense. His early

37:12

impressions of Justin called him a perfectionist,

37:15

said he's excited for him to actually uncorked

37:18

that arm. They haven't been thrown at OTA's,

37:21

but a guy who obviously is

37:23

highly intelligent gonna pick up this system.

37:25

Lombardi talked about just having that that

37:28

element of the New Orleans system with some

37:30

sprinkles of San Francisco from Shane

37:32

Day and Vegas with

37:34

Frank Smith. So what

37:37

did you take from Joe outside

37:39

of just talking about the system

37:41

in general? He talked about a lot of guys from Justin

37:44

to Mike Williams to Austin Eckler.

37:46

Yeah, you know, I'll start with Mike Williams. You know,

37:49

Michael is kind of a guy who never had you know, gets

37:51

a lot of targets. He never really really pats the statue

37:54

like he Allen does, but he makes these

37:56

plays count when they come, especially in the fourth

37:58

quarter, big plays on the field because rest field. But

38:00

it seems not with Joel Lombardi. He's gonna, you know,

38:03

throw, It's gonna feed Mike william He's gonna gonna

38:05

give him his targets. He mentioned that the exposition

38:07

and he said Michael Thomas had that position,

38:10

and Michael Thomas has you know, one of them he has Yeah,

38:13

yeah, a lot of balls. But with Keen Allenson, you

38:16

think that Michael Thomas more like Keen Allen. But Lombard

38:18

is saying no, no, it could be Mike Williams because ken I was

38:20

gonna get his catches like always in one of the best

38:22

third down wide receivers in the in the NFL. So

38:25

for my Quilliams, he must be excited to hear that because

38:28

because it's always weird of Mike Quilliams. He gets a thousand

38:30

yards but not to touchdounds. He gets the ten touchdounds,

38:33

but not the thousand yards. So this could be the year that the Michaelins

38:35

put it all together. Uh, and it could be

38:37

with Joel Lombardi. But then with Joel Lombardi

38:39

it kind of always go to It's like, you know, what if the schemes

38:41

suit complicated? What if it is that he's trying to do in New

38:43

Orleans or or the forty

38:46

nine ers, or even what the Raiders were doing

38:48

with Frank Smith in those days there, or even the Packers.

38:51

But he said, you know, I asked him, how can

38:53

you be different? How can you make it to how can you make the charges?

38:56

Often he says, it's gonna do it around the person.

38:58

Now, there's always a foundation. It is always

39:00

the base, and it could be New Orleans. But you

39:02

know, when training can goes around, you go

39:05

will you do best? And it's gonna be a lot about Justin

39:07

Herbert make them comfortable. So when I heard that,

39:09

I'm like, okay, because I try to copy something. He's

39:11

trying to get a foundation and then build off of that and

39:13

make it the charge your way. Yeah, he

39:16

was in New Orleans for so long. One

39:18

of the things that I think Jeff ass just the comparisons

39:21

of Breeze and Herbert, and it just

39:23

it starts with the intelligence. Obviously,

39:25

you know there are different heights. Drew

39:29

plays has played like two hundred and eighty six

39:31

games versus Justine fifteen starts,

39:34

so there's a lot of differences. But like some of those

39:36

intangibles, is the intelligence, the

39:39

perfectionist in both of those

39:41

guys. Those are the things that translate.

39:44

And we know how spark Justin is. We'll

39:47

see maybe throughout this season and beyond,

39:49

how much more you could put on his plate and how

39:52

much more comfortable he gets in the

39:54

offense. So it was fun

39:56

to hear from all three of these

39:58

guys, Gil as we kind

40:00

of get closer to Mini

40:02

camp. What else are you keeping

40:05

your eye on as we get to mini camp?

40:08

And then obviously we talked about things are gonna

40:10

slow down a lot before training Kimp. Yeah,

40:12

we haven't really talked about the offensive line, and that's how that

40:15

was a big focus. And in the offseason when

40:17

you got Corey Linsley and Matt Feiler and Audio

40:19

Bushy, and I was kind of interested watching

40:22

ots. I know, not all the guys are there, Buyan

40:24

Bulaga hasn't really been there or a Bushy,

40:26

but looking at the left side with rashauns Later

40:28

and Matt Feiler and Corey Lisleey, it looks pretty

40:31

nice right now. But can they

40:33

put it together real quick? Because it's four out of five

40:35

new stars an offensive line that's

40:38

upthing Franks meant to get together, and I've heard great things

40:40

about Frank Span so maybe it won't be a problem. Brian

40:42

Bulaga and Corey Lizbey have a chemistry

40:44

from the Green Bay days. But I want to see this kind of you

40:46

know, this old line come together quick

40:49

and fast. And because

40:51

they're Week one, you're playing Washington has

40:54

one of the best defensive line, So yeah,

40:56

your tests right away, So I think for me, that's kind of where

40:58

I'm looking at. Obviously, I mentioned why

41:00

receiver. I kin't want to see how that kind of pans out and

41:04

maybe another safety. We mentioned Nas

41:06

and Derwin James, but and I know Brandon

41:09

State likes to play a lot of three safety, So who's gonna be that third

41:11

guy to kind of step up? So many many

41:13

intriggued storylines, and I'm kind of excited to get

41:15

past these at Ota the mini camp and get

41:17

right into training camp. I know, let's just

41:20

go now, man, please, I'm

41:22

ready. Gilvin's out of Southern California

41:24

news group copus on the beat. Where

41:26

can fans get the podcast?

41:29

Gil? How many days a week does it come out?

41:31

Give me all the good stuff? Yeah, it's once

41:33

a week right now, it feels like it's

41:35

more. But because we're cranking out a lot of content

41:37

and interviews and we're putting together and it comes out every

41:40

Tuesday. We're on YouTube, Apple,

41:42

Spotify, so we got audio and

41:44

videos. Were bringing the best of both

41:47

worlds and and it's been fun. Yeah,

41:49

like you mentioned, we had on we had a Sante

41:51

Samuel Junior. We had a great interview with Rashawn

41:53

Slater. So a lot of charges flavor

41:56

a lot of other sports as well, Like we're

41:58

we're into boxing and wrestling, so and we

42:00

like to have fun with a lot of banters. So you

42:03

know, if you see us on YouTube composing the

42:05

b subscribe, turn on a little bell for

42:07

notifications, and don't miss an episode. Put

42:10

Gil and Fernando in your rotation.

42:12

Always appreciate the time, man. I

42:15

wanted to give you your solo time as opposed

42:17

to the roundtable. Let you fire off support takes,

42:19

so you're not waiting in line, right,

42:22

Yeah, that was kind of nice. I'm like, wait, I could keep

42:24

going on. I can keep talking. I have a lot of opinions too. You

42:26

know, all

42:28

right, buddy, I will see you at practice next

42:30

week and we'll talk soon. Sounds good, Chris,

42:32

Thank you for the time, and that's gonna do it

42:34

for us. A big thanks to Gilbert Manzano

42:37

and Doug Ferrar for joining me, and of course

42:39

thanks to you all for listening. Be sure to download

42:41

and subscribe to the Chargers Podcast Network

42:44

wherever you listen to podcasts. We're also

42:46

on chargers dot com and the team's

42:48

official YouTube channel, so if you're watching

42:51

us on video, appreciate you guys.

42:53

Tune in in, have a great weekend, and until

42:55

next time, I'm Chris Hary.