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Number stores or sleepnumber.com. It's

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very scary to being at how much

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had invested in today's how close I

0:37

am to the ended this procedure. I've

0:39

been waiting over two years to be

0:42

pregnant, so am I. There is no

0:44

world where I could see. Me stopping

0:46

this process right now. That's.

0:48

Twenty six year old Gabrielle go

0:51

down describing the moment she heard

0:53

about the recent Alabama Supreme Court

0:55

ruling that frozen embryos would now

0:57

be considered children. The. Ramifications

1:00

of this are enormous. What?

1:02

It means is if the frozen

1:04

embryos and a fertility center or

1:06

ever discarded or destroyed. People.

1:08

Could be held criminally liable. And.

1:11

For gabby as well as others in

1:13

Alabama hoping they become parents through I

1:15

V. The ruling was devastating. On

1:17

Friday, the just as ruled that

1:20

embryos created through in vitro fertilization

1:22

or I V F would be

1:25

protected under Alabama's wrongful death of

1:27

a minor. Apt advocates for infertile

1:29

couples call the rolling terrifying. Not.

1:32

To be clear, freezing embryos is incredibly

1:34

common during I V F procedures. The

1:36

hope is that one of them could

1:39

lead the pregnancy. But. Embryos are

1:41

sometimes damaged or disposed of while

1:43

in the lab. It's. Often part

1:45

of the process, they can even happen

1:47

as the embryos thaw and the loss

1:50

of those embryos for whatever reason, Opens

1:52

the pathway for healthcare providers or

1:54

the patients themselves. Possibly. Being.

1:56

Hit with punitive damages

1:58

again. Even if those

2:01

embryos are frozen, were outside of the

2:03

uterus. As. A result of

2:05

all this, some clinics in Alabama have

2:07

already paused I V F programs out

2:09

of legal concerns. A third fertility

2:11

clinic has now shut off I

2:14

Vs Services because of the Alabama

2:16

Supreme Court ruling in that state.

2:18

All. Of this happen when Gabby was

2:20

just three days away from having your

2:22

eggs retrieved at a fertility clinic for

2:24

fertility journey so far had already been

2:26

grueling like it is for many. I'm

2:29

already been so poked and prodded in

2:31

the idea. ah says. and now I'm

2:34

from the like. there's somebody else is

2:36

coming into my person, all lies in

2:38

variance he says emotionally where I'm already

2:40

having so much invasion. physically it's it's.

2:43

Been. Really hard, innocently. The.

2:45

State Supreme court's decision has

2:48

sought fertility experts, patients and

2:50

providers in Alabama, but also

2:52

the whole country. It's a

2:54

decision experts say could have

2:56

further legal and medical implications.

2:58

I think it most seriously

3:01

impacts those. Who are most vulnerable

3:03

we have p sense who want to

3:05

do with your ideas to save up.

3:08

For. Years to go throw at we

3:10

have peace and some mortgage their

3:12

houses because their desire to build

3:14

their families so profound. That's

3:17

why I'm to these podcast episode. We're

3:19

putting our Chasing Life season all about

3:21

weight loss on pause to bring you

3:23

the latest on this breaking story. For.

3:26

More context than what's happening on

3:29

the ground in Alabama. I'll turn

3:31

to see them. Correspondent Isabel resolve

3:33

us. Plus, fertility doctor in Northwestern

3:36

University Medicine associate Professor Doctor He

3:38

Feinberg is gonna sure how this

3:40

ruling could impact patients beyond just

3:43

Alabama. This is a

3:45

special edition of Paging Dr. Gupta.

3:50

When. Gabby and her husband Spencer heard

3:52

about the State Supreme Court's unprecedented ruins.

3:54

The couple told Cnn they have been

3:56

more than twenty thousand dollars and two

3:58

years of their lives. Trying to

4:01

get pregnant through I the yes we're

4:03

so close to the having a child,

4:05

the sorry affair with their it was

4:07

taken away. Your

4:09

last moment the last item

4:11

and just feels almost like

4:14

work serves. My. Colleagues

4:16

scene and correspondent Isabel resolve this has

4:18

been in Alabama talking to Gabby and

4:20

Spencer as well as others going through

4:22

I the of treatments. So.

4:25

This is a first of it's

4:27

kind ruling that really puts bag

4:29

into the national full. This the

4:31

question of when life begins to

4:34

this release just raises the question

4:36

is the future of I V

4:38

S in Alabama and really beyond.

4:41

But. How did this issue make it to

4:43

the Alabama Supreme Court? I was surprised to

4:45

learn how this all started. This

4:47

really stems from wrongful death

4:50

lawsuit that were filed by

4:52

the parents have flowed several

4:54

embryonic children, children up. Or.

4:57

Created to ride the As

4:59

so according to the court

5:01

documents and these embryos. And

5:03

they were in in a

5:06

cryogenic nursery. So they were

5:08

in liquid nitrogen awaiting implantation

5:10

when somehow a patient gained

5:12

access to that nursery, drop

5:14

the embryos on the floor

5:16

from getting a burn from

5:18

that liquid nitrogen, and then

5:20

those embryos were destroyed. So.

5:23

These parents obviously. Incredibly

5:25

distraught. They. Wanted accountability.

5:27

They wanted answers for that. So they

5:29

filed a wrongful death lawsuit and all

5:31

of this made it's way. To.

5:34

The Alabama Supreme Court because as to

5:36

this point in time, there was no

5:38

states that said an embryo is a

5:40

person. And. That's what the D

5:42

L M Supreme Court establish. Establishing

5:45

embryos as children,

5:48

That. Up ended the entire practice

5:50

of I V F in Alabama. What

5:52

it meant was the providers would now

5:55

have to consider the possibility of been

5:57

criminally liable if an embryo was lost.

6:00

Which. Created immense obstacles for people like

6:02

Gabby and Spencer who we heard

6:04

from earlier Very. Young couple of

6:06

they have been through a lot

6:08

a suffered through three miscarriages. Gabby

6:11

was so by her doctor that

6:13

she had a higher than normal

6:15

likelihood of having a pregnancy with

6:17

genetic abnormalities. So. Face. With

6:20

that. They decided to go through

6:22

the route of I the asked again

6:24

he was as the he's away from

6:26

having her eggs retrieves when this ruling

6:28

came down and when she got the

6:30

call from her clinic and Alabama so

6:32

her clinic told her that they couldn't

6:34

guarantee of they be able to make

6:37

store or ship embryos. Once Gabby got

6:39

that call she was panic seeks called

6:41

means here's this is exactly what she

6:43

feared would happen after hearing about the

6:45

ruling. I'm very scared.

6:47

We got the green light to

6:49

start error or medication on Thursday.

6:51

That decision came down on Friday.

6:53

I found out on Saturdays and

6:55

I was already. Knew. Boy. Invest

6:57

in this process the it Peter when

6:59

I can. All we had purchased all

7:01

of our medication physically invested into it

7:03

and we have been a training like

7:06

huge him for a marathon like we

7:08

hadn't been drinking, we've been eating healthy

7:10

rebid exercising trying to make sure our

7:12

bodies are prepared for this and it's

7:14

just feels like it's been months long

7:16

and then to be told that there

7:18

is a possibility that we would have

7:20

to stop this in the middle of

7:22

my in. The most important parts today

7:24

is is really terrifying. She may calls

7:26

and she got connected to. A fertility

7:28

clinic thing taxes her home see that

7:30

same night she hopped on a flight

7:32

and decided this is the route I'm

7:34

gonna go through Texas to continue my

7:36

fertility care. As sounded are so

7:39

that was his man and now it's go

7:41

go go rush Rush! That on a

7:43

plane and travel to get this

7:45

sign which again it is exciting

7:47

that I am getting a to

7:49

continue but also a ton of

7:51

stress that we did not anticipate

7:53

and very. Stressful process. So.

7:56

Our healthcare teams and Nivea specialist

7:58

responding in Alabama. There. Are

8:01

not a lot of fertility

8:03

clinics in Alabama? Seven is

8:05

what we've counted. One

8:07

of them along suit Doctor

8:09

Andrew Harper wilde the We

8:11

fertility clinic so far in

8:13

the seat have halted is

8:15

certain idea treatment programs. Doctor

8:17

Harper refuses to stop idea

8:19

of treatments he still seen

8:21

as patients He still moving

8:23

forward but he has pause

8:25

the disposal of embryos. They're

8:28

not respecting women's reproductive autonomy,

8:30

their reproductive rights. They have

8:33

ordered his religious agenda. So.

8:35

I asked him how to see continuous basis. How

8:37

can you do this when so many other clinics

8:39

has put a stop the right now. Not.

8:42

Where he told me he's doing this for his

8:44

patience. It's their embryos it

8:46

and they should decide. He feels

8:48

very passionately about. That. It's

8:50

saddening, frustrating. but. I'm

8:53

in a position in in my careers

8:56

Remember Grounders, We're not sure I give

8:58

a damn anymore about what or why

9:00

guys in Montgomery say I'm here to

9:02

advocate for patients and we want or

9:05

patients. To research old my

9:07

family building goals, whatever that might be,

9:09

And we believe in patient autonomy. And.

9:12

That trumps all. Now.

9:14

Since this ruling from the State Supreme Court

9:16

we have heard the Alabama Attorney General has

9:18

also weighed in. And this

9:21

is what came down from

9:23

the Attorney General's office saying

9:25

quote Attorney General see Marshall

9:27

has no intention of using

9:29

the recent Alabama Supreme Court

9:31

decision as a basis for

9:33

prosecuting idea families or providers.

9:35

That's from their Chief counsel,

9:37

Catherine Robertson's. Many. Of you

9:40

may be wondering. so what is this all

9:42

mean in your state. And for the

9:44

country as a whole. Medical. Experts

9:46

in critics through worried that

9:48

this ruling will have wider

9:50

consequences way beyond Alabama. They're

9:53

worried that this ruling essentially

9:55

created a road map where

9:57

groups or legislators across the

9:59

country. Me try to target

10:01

fertility treatments. So outside of

10:04

Alabama. The. National repercussions we

10:06

could be looking at is whether

10:08

other seeds could attempt to define

10:11

embryos as people as we're seeing

10:13

now in Alabama already, there's one

10:15

religious were abusing Alabama ruling as

10:18

precedence to target abortion rights in

10:20

Florida. So. For many of these

10:22

critics, they fear that Alabama. Has

10:25

opened the floodgates or whole

10:27

new frontier. In. This battle

10:29

of reproductive rights. Excellent

10:34

reporting on the ground from scene

10:36

and Correspondent Isabel resolve us. I gotta

10:38

say, one thing that really stood out

10:41

to me from that conversation with Isabel

10:43

is Doctor Andrew Harper statement that this

10:45

is a court ruling base and religion

10:48

and not science. As a doctor

10:50

myself, that's incredibly concerning. So I decided

10:52

to reach out to an expert to

10:54

continue the conversation. I think that

10:57

this is a highly political move and

10:59

one that. Really doesn't follow the

11:01

science and doesn't take into account.

11:04

The. Needs of the people.

11:06

Who live in Alabama? Fertility.

11:09

Doctor and Northwestern University Medicine

11:11

associate Professor. Doctor He Feinberg

11:13

joins me next. Chasing

11:24

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Sore for details. What?

13:00

Was your first reaction when you heard

13:02

about the ruling in Alabama? Yeah,

13:04

I mean city perfectly honest. I'm

13:07

not. Surprised! I wrote a piece

13:09

with the to call editors and

13:11

she's on Fertility and Sterility, which

13:13

is one of our major medical

13:15

journals and we basically. Wrote how

13:17

the confirmation as Amy Connie

13:19

bear it would lead to

13:21

offending row and at once

13:23

you take away the viability,

13:25

flies in the protection that

13:28

Rel offered than the rest

13:30

as personhood. And this idea

13:32

that you declare an embryo

13:34

person at a time of

13:36

fertilization like that truly set

13:38

this into most And and

13:40

I went back. and I

13:42

read that piece that I

13:44

rode back in. Early twenty

13:46

twenty. And it was Uri's as

13:49

to how our predictions play it

13:51

out. And so I think that

13:53

this. Is. Not.

13:55

Like of one asked? Piece of

13:57

probably like a very

14:00

carefully orchestra it carefully

14:02

planned move by a

14:04

soul political movement that

14:06

is not to seeking

14:08

to overturn. Roe. Versus

14:10

Wade cassettes now been accomplished,

14:12

but really, to. Destroys

14:15

autonomy for women in

14:17

a multitude of ways.

14:20

You have is here are reproductive experts,

14:22

a specialist at you or someone who's

14:24

of their personal experience with I the

14:26

if you've written about this on wonder

14:28

if you could if you're comfortable sharing

14:30

To do tell us a little bit.

14:32

of what that experiences like for you. Yeah.

14:35

I has a lot of

14:37

experience with I V S

14:39

Health personally and professionally. I

14:41

went through my own in

14:43

vitro fertilization cyclists thirty four

14:45

years old and I had

14:47

a lot of eggs retrieved

14:49

endless fairly sec West Ovarian

14:51

hyper simulations and drama and

14:53

I met seems cycle We

14:55

had transferred one embryo and.

14:57

We sail preserved the

14:59

remaining nine embryos that

15:02

remained. And that one

15:04

pregnancy was not growing normally

15:06

so it it had herpes.

15:08

I was six weeks along

15:10

your wasn't. Measuring properly and

15:12

was very uncomfortable. I was

15:14

in a lot of pain

15:16

and the pregnancy. Even know

15:19

wasn't developing normally kept to

15:21

linger and was like eight

15:23

weeks. Nine leagues ten weeks

15:25

and we had to make

15:27

a decision on do we

15:29

continue the pregnancy which was

15:31

causing terrible health problems. In

15:33

terms of my own hyper

15:35

simulation, it wasn't. Going

15:37

away on its own and by it

15:40

all has mikel measures like. I

15:42

elected to terminate the pregnancy. It was

15:44

a highly, highly desired pregnancy After. Two

15:47

years of infertility and three miscarriage. As

15:50

and. I. Just I

15:52

knew intellectually that a harpy, the. Was.

15:54

Not necessarily a viable pregnancy

15:57

rates. So I mean that

15:59

does it. And then it was. It

16:01

was sad because I wanted wanted to be.

16:03

Pregnant I wanted another child but

16:05

I didn't wanna continue with hyper

16:07

simulation which. Was putting my life

16:09

at risk and I knew that

16:11

the pregnancy. Was going nowhere in so

16:13

I had Aegean sea and went on

16:16

to have a healthy pregnancy after that

16:18

plane. I'm sorry he went through that.

16:21

Dark. Yeah, I'm I'm You

16:23

have a lot of. The

16:25

last slot buy a. House

16:27

as baby your are now. I

16:29

guess child do things again. This

16:32

was many many years ago. My

16:34

twins are now fourteen and House

16:36

and freshman in high school. I'm

16:40

so happy to hear that! I

16:42

I think the audience. Probably.

16:44

This audience has a general idea

16:46

of what I Vs is in

16:48

vitro fertilization, retrieval of eggs, fertilization

16:50

with with sperm, and then creation

16:52

of an embryo and then ultimately

16:55

implanting that into a woman's uterus.

16:57

I'm curious if you to just

16:59

give us some context is adding

17:01

to it. I'm old enough to

17:03

remember Baby Louise say was forty

17:05

years ago. I think roughly forty

17:07

years ago. How

17:09

com is this nowadays? Yeah,

17:12

so you now that I don't think I

17:14

know anything about. Neurosurgery. So please

17:16

come out of. The

17:19

Medicis hair and stuff. So we pay attention to

17:21

this stuff. Yeah, spy

17:23

at Ideas is really com in

17:25

infertility. a sect one in six

17:28

people in the United States, and

17:30

annually in the Us alone we

17:32

perform about four hundred thousand cycles

17:35

odds in vitro fertilization if you

17:37

look selectively at the population of

17:39

the U S just over time.

17:42

And forty. Years since Louise

17:44

Brown was born about two

17:46

percent of the com population

17:48

and concedes. With high the ass

17:50

so it is staggering. Pets lot bigger than

17:52

I thought. Yeah, Let

17:55

me ask you some basic questions so people

17:57

understand what I the of his wife and

17:59

indo. Give my ignorance hero

18:01

that. But why freeze embryos?

18:05

Yeah, that's a great question.

18:08

so there's few different. Situations

18:10

where we freeze embryos. Sell

18:12

the first is when we go through

18:15

what we call a fresh I the

18:17

cycle and that is when you stimulate

18:19

the ovaries it'd be eggs out, You

18:22

fertilize them with sperm, you grow them

18:24

in the laboratory than you would transfer.

18:26

Ideally you would transfer the single best

18:29

embryo and I think back in the

18:31

day before we were really that it

18:33

embryo freezing ways to. Transfer a

18:35

whole bunch of embryos and hope

18:37

that one talk with the advent

18:40

of vitrification which is a. Really

18:42

sophisticated methods for freezing embryos

18:44

that you don't develop ice

18:46

crystals. We started to transfer

18:49

just one embryo and then

18:51

freeze the remaining. Embryos for the

18:53

feast or. So that is I

18:55

the Us doesn't work. You had some

18:57

frozen embryos. They can then be utilized

18:59

and you might do that for a

19:01

couple different situations. One of those is

19:04

in a situation where you want to

19:06

get to navigate and from his and

19:08

on and number down or so for

19:10

parents. Who meet jerry: spinal muscular

19:13

Atrophy or T Sachs or

19:15

other fatal disease. As we have

19:17

the ability to test the embryo

19:19

in the pre implantation stage to

19:21

avoid transmission of the fields. Aziz

19:24

said that's probably the most common

19:26

reason that we freeze embryos were

19:28

in the situation of a piece

19:30

and. Fi seeing chemotherapy where they me

19:33

with ovarian function we would freeze an

19:35

embryo and feast of a cancer diagnosis

19:37

so that we could preserve that couples

19:39

fertility for the theater. What do you

19:41

see when you look at one of

19:43

these. These fertilized eggs. These

19:46

embryos. Man, I

19:48

see the potential to become a

19:50

human eyes, but I I don't

19:52

see that embryo as a baby

19:55

legally. I would say most states

19:57

considered in divorce settlements embryos are

19:59

can. The to be property and I.

20:01

Think that undervalues an embryo a

20:03

little bit, but I seem to

20:06

call it a human life. Is

20:08

and overstretch of what the science

20:10

really tells us. So I like to

20:12

think of it as. Something.

20:14

That has the potential to become a

20:17

human mice and in most circumstances the

20:19

overwhelming majority depending on the is as

20:21

a woman will not actually grow to

20:24

a com a human. I wish they

20:26

would. It would pick my job so

20:28

much easier if every time I put

20:31

in an embryo somebody would have a

20:33

child. but I think anyone has been

20:35

to I the As can tell you

20:38

it's an iterative process. You do it

20:40

again and again and again and ultimately

20:42

you probably will be successful. And

20:45

he can think about it as

20:47

a treatment course where one single

20:49

cycle is not a fact is

20:51

that it's Uma of likelihood of

20:53

success is much greater when you

20:56

do it multiple times. This

20:58

this ruling. Snc classifies

21:01

frozen embryo as as

21:03

children you obviously say

21:05

that has scientifically and

21:07

medically inaccurate. Yes, I

21:09

mean, it's it's. A great inaccuracy. Windows

21:12

and Embryo become a child.

21:16

I actually think that's somewhat of

21:18

a religious question and this again

21:21

is where I think that up

21:23

a com This difficult because people

21:25

have different religious beliefs and there

21:28

are some religions that believe that

21:30

life begins with fertilisation. and there

21:32

are some religions that believe that

21:35

life begins. With brain

21:37

development and personally I.

21:39

Think it becomes a child

21:42

when it has the capability

21:44

of living and growing and

21:46

surviving outside of the mothers.

21:48

Well, so I really think

21:50

that the viability clause that

21:53

was enacted and role is

21:55

probably the one that most

21:57

closely mirrors the science of.

22:00

What? What didn't mean to be

22:02

human and what doesn't mean to

22:04

actually be a person? I think

22:06

it means that you're capable of

22:09

living independently, and granted a twenty

22:11

four weeks, you still need a

22:13

tremendous amount as neonatal intensive care

22:16

unit support. but at least your

22:18

life isn't entirely dependent on another

22:20

human being. You can live independently

22:23

from that person. But I think

22:25

the bigger question of when sit

22:27

a child be protected by the

22:29

laws. Of states and when is

22:32

it appropriate. For a steep to

22:34

intervene, I think it has to be

22:36

at the point where it's separate and

22:38

distinct. From a Woman's on Body

22:41

and I think that again as

22:43

a Reproductive Endocrinologist. As a woman,

22:45

as a mother and as somebody

22:48

who is in put in some

22:50

difficult medical. Situations.

22:53

I think that those difficult decisions

22:55

need to be between us exists

22:58

and and p Sense or a

23:00

health care provider and their peace

23:02

and and not decisions made by

23:05

government to don't have. The

23:07

he needs qualifications, training

23:09

and experience. To have

23:11

these difficult conversations with p sense

23:13

because they are very nuanced and

23:15

they're very emotionally. They're very difficult,

23:18

but I have a lot of

23:20

years as as he said to

23:22

have these conversations and I have

23:24

found when speaking with Legislator is

23:26

that they don't really understand the

23:29

science and I think that in

23:31

the Alabama case they probably didn't

23:33

quite understand the implications of what

23:35

their ruling is now going to

23:38

do for those families. That so.

23:40

Desperately want. Shelter How much of

23:42

what is happening right now with a

23:44

ruling like this? Do you think his

23:46

religion based and how much of that

23:48

is science based? I. Think it's.

23:51

Zero percent science based in the hundred

23:54

percent. Religions last

23:56

political agenda. Is

23:58

there any part of? That makes sense

24:00

to you if you had to descend the

24:03

other side first. I am I asking that

24:05

question but just because you are so knowledgeable.

24:07

If you had to defend the descend the

24:09

other side of this, where would you say.

24:12

Shout Look I think that there

24:14

was a crime that was commit

24:16

and there was somebody who. Again

24:19

for motors and reasons and I

24:21

am not privy to. Went in.

24:24

And destroyed some things that

24:26

is tremendously value. All. right?

24:29

Like he'd been into an

24:31

embryo tank. Dropped very precious

24:33

material on the ground and.

24:36

Took away the reproductive potential

24:39

that may have been within

24:41

those embryos. I seem sad

24:44

crimes warrant punishments and I

24:46

I understand that Greece and

24:49

the last that. Infertility

24:51

patients have when they lose

24:53

embryos. However,

24:56

It is in no way scientifically

24:58

the same as the wrongful death

25:01

of a minor. I think that's

25:03

a line that was crossed that

25:05

does not. Make any scientific

25:08

sense. What would you

25:10

tell patients appeal, families of wanna have

25:12

a baby and were considering I the

25:14

s right now in Alabama where would

25:16

you what would be your counsel to

25:18

them? Come up to Chicago. That

25:22

is where we are her. I mean

25:24

it is very sad. I think

25:26

those patients who need care or

25:29

probably best served not having their

25:31

current state of Alabama and I

25:33

think that's a really hard thing

25:35

to say by. I think that

25:37

current climate is not cause I

25:39

think that this is a highly

25:42

political move and one that really

25:44

doesn't follow the science and doesn't

25:46

take into account the needs of

25:48

the people who live in Alabama.

25:51

The. Patience. You know some of them may not

25:53

have the option to to go to a

25:55

different state and for them this is not

25:57

gonna be something that's available to them anymore.

25:59

Size? Yeah. Services are not available many these

26:01

clinics. What are you hearing from your fellow

26:03

health care providers? Their: how are they ceiling?

26:05

What are they planning on doing? Yeah

26:07

I mean I seem to them in the

26:10

same as trails in on the other end.

26:12

of reproductive specter mates

26:14

and get most seriously

26:16

impacts those. Who are most vulnerable

26:18

and so you know we have p

26:20

sense who want to go through i

26:22

the ass to. Save.

26:24

Up. For. Years to

26:26

go throw at we have peace and some

26:29

mortgage their houses. Because their desired

26:31

tab bell their family as

26:33

so profound and so this

26:35

ruling is going to impact

26:37

those p sense even more

26:40

than the average person going

26:42

through at as from my

26:44

colleagues in Alabama think they're

26:46

relaying. I think they're. Trying

26:48

to figure out what makes some.

26:51

Sense Does it make sense to wait

26:53

it out and let the pendulum swing

26:55

the other way to that? Make the

26:57

most sense to move their clinics across

27:00

state lines. I don't think anybody has.

27:02

An answer or a plan to?

27:04

Broad and too soon, but I

27:06

really think that it's a huge.

27:09

Problem and. We.

27:11

Need to find a better solution to this.

27:14

Sincere gratitude to Doctor Fiber for

27:16

sharing. Both are deeply personal and

27:18

professional experience with I Vs, you

27:20

know, for stories like these, it's

27:22

important to me to not let

27:24

politics drown out the real people

27:26

being affected, Especially people like Gabrielle

27:28

and her husband Spencer and many

27:30

other families out there now wondering

27:32

what this all means for their

27:34

chance at becoming parents. It's

27:37

something that I've been thinking a lot about

27:39

as a doctor. These conversations I've had over

27:41

the past few days of my own wife

27:43

and my three teenage daughters at the dinner

27:45

table. It's not easy. But. It's important

27:47

to talk about and reporting on this

27:49

episode is help me make a little

27:52

bit more sense of at all. I.

27:54

Hope it helps you to. Thanks

27:57

for listening! Choosing.

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