My guest this episode is Dave Jamieson, Ph. D., retired professor and president of the Jamieson Consulting Group. He is passionate about coaching & teaching to change the way we change & change the way we lead.  He is dedicated to organizational leaders becoming more skilled at change leadership and systemic solutions and integrating the increasing complexity of technology with the need of supporting the humanity of their employees and customers.  We discuss how many people in organizations do change in ways that doesn’t pay enough attention to what it takes for human beings to move past their resistance and to be a part of the change.  Much of the focus is on what it is about the work that needs to change and overlooks the role of the people in change.  Dave discusses how change itself is changing.  The environment used to be stable which allowed change to be something you could manage as a separate project.  Today, the change must be integrated with the people who are doing the work and be led by those directly engaged with the change.  The need now is to approach change from a very systemic lens, and we need to understand the complexity and disruptive nature of change in very interdependent systems.