0:00

So guys come into my coaching practice and they say, Adam,

0:02

I can never get a second date. And women

0:04

just say, they think I'm not interested. And

0:06

I say, buddy, do you

0:09

switch topics all the time? Are you constantly

0:11

trying to be interesting and

0:14

bring up new topics all the

0:16

time? Well, yeah, I want to be interesting. Or

0:18

otherwise she'll lose interest and she'll go date someone else.

0:20

And I say,

0:21

somebody along the way taught

0:24

you that they will not take you seriously or

0:26

pay attention to you unless you're interesting

0:29

to them.

0:32

Hello,

0:32

everybody. You are listening or watching

0:35

Chatting with Candice. I'm your host, Candice Horbak.

0:37

Before we jump into the intro, if you could hit that like

0:39

and subscribe button, wherever you are listening or watching,

0:42

that would help me out a ton. I

0:44

want to start out with some shout

0:46

outs. I want to say a big thank you to

0:49

Paul a few times, to

0:51

Joseph Dale,

0:53

Paul again, and Roger.

0:55

Thank you so much for those cups of coffee. If you

0:58

want to contribute to the podcast, you can click the

1:00

link below. That is the Buy Me a Coffee

1:02

link. All of the resources go right back into

1:04

the podcast and I greatly,

1:07

greatly appreciate it. We will also link

1:09

some programs and affiliates and sponsors below.

1:11

So if you want to support the podcast, that is also an excellent

1:14

way to do so. Sorry, guys. I'm a little tongue tied.

1:16

It happened a couple of times in the episode too. I don't know what's

1:19

going on. My tongue's a little fat today. Today

1:21

we have Adam Lane Smith

1:23

joining the podcast and I'm so excited to have

1:26

him on. He's doing really incredible work

1:28

within the attachment space, the

1:30

relationship space, transformative

1:32

personal development. He's a licensed

1:34

psychotherapist. I will make sure I link

1:36

all of his resources below. Definitely check

1:39

him out. His social medias are amazing.

1:41

His Twitter is really great and he has some really

1:43

great perspectives. I

1:45

think that is all of the housekeeping.

1:48

So without further ado, please help

1:50

me welcome Adam Lane Smith. Adam,

1:52

thank you so much

1:53

for coming on. I've been really excited

1:55

for this conversation. You hit so

1:57

many topics that are very much alive.

1:59

for me and I'm sure a lot of my listeners

2:02

right now. Um, so this, I just know

2:04

this is going to be a blast. Absolutely. I've been

2:06

really looking forward to this. Let's, let's tear up the internet

2:08

right now. Let's tear it up. So

2:10

I was looking at, I always

2:13

journal before I have someone come on and it's very

2:15

unorganized, we were talking offline about how organization,

2:18

organization is not my strong suit. It's

2:20

kind of like this cloud

2:23

of thoughts and I have

2:25

a whole bunch of topics and like, where do we begin? Because

2:27

there's so many topics that I hope

2:29

that we can at least touch on during

2:31

this conversation and where it came down,

2:34

like where I think we, our origin

2:36

should be is attachment because I think

2:38

everything comes back to attachment. And

2:41

it seems to be a hot topic.

2:44

One of the books that I read when I was early

2:46

on into parenthood with my first child was

2:48

attached and that was my first

2:51

understanding and learning that there were different

2:53

attachment styles and even beginning to identify

2:55

my own, my husband's and how important

2:58

all of these are. So can we kind

3:00

of get into what is attachment

3:02

theory and different attachment styles

3:04

and what they look like?

3:05

Absolutely. So I will preface this by

3:07

saying my life also changed what I

3:09

learned about attachment, attachment styles and

3:12

attachment theory, and I was already

3:14

a licensed psychotherapist at the time and they

3:16

had not trained us on this in school. So what

3:18

I'm about to teach you and teach everybody in the audience

3:21

is stuff that most therapists don't even know. And I'll

3:23

explain exactly why. But attachment

3:25

theory is very simply is the way

3:27

that we learn to give and

3:29

receive love with other human beings.

3:31

When we are a child, it is

3:34

drawn from our experiences with our

3:36

parents and our understanding

3:38

of those experiences. So if we don't get

3:41

our needs met, if we don't feel like we are taken

3:43

seriously, if we don't feel safe

3:45

opening up to other people or asking for

3:47

help or trusting them because we got

3:50

hurt or pushed away or

3:52

ignored or something went wrong

3:54

consistently, we learned that we

3:57

have to play games to try to make other

3:59

people either. not abandon us, that's

4:01

anxious attachment style, obsessed with abandonment.

4:04

Or we have to play games to try to make

4:07

other people do what we need

4:09

them to do so we can live our life, which is

4:11

more avoidance style. You avoid intimate

4:13

connections and being vulnerable because you don't

4:15

wanna get hurt. And yes, everybody listening,

4:17

there's a few of you out there probably saying, can I be both? Yes,

4:20

you can. There's a disorganized style, which just means

4:22

cannot be neatly organized into either one. But

4:25

it all comes back, like you said perfectly, it all

4:27

comes back to attachment.

4:28

So what does, well, I guess, what

4:30

does healthy attachment look like within

4:33

like the parent-child dynamic and then within a

4:36

romantic dynamic?

4:36

Good question. So yeah, secure attachment.

4:39

I should have mentioned that one. Secure attachment,

4:41

the research shows only about 35% of

4:43

people in the West now have secure attachment, especially

4:45

here in America. As adults? As adults, only 35%

4:48

of adults that we have measured have

4:51

secure attachment anymore. It used to be 40 years

4:54

ago, it was about 65%. 20 years

4:56

ago, the research says it was about 50%. Now

4:58

it's about 35%, it's getting much, much

5:00

worse. So when people say, I've never met

5:02

someone with what you're describing, what I'm gonna describe in

5:04

a minute, it's because it's getting more and more

5:06

narrow.

5:07

There's healing to be done, but there's hope.

5:10

So secure attachment, it looks like this.

5:13

I have four kids of my own. And when they come to me,

5:15

they can just say, dad, I want this.

5:17

And I say, okay, well talk to me about why

5:20

you want that. Why is that important? Okay, well this,

5:22

this, and this. Okay, well, I don't think we could do

5:24

that right now, right? You can't have ice cream for dinner

5:26

every single night. But if you want ice

5:28

cream, because you really enjoy it, why don't we find a way that

5:30

you can have it that will take care of that

5:33

and also keep you healthy. Why

5:35

don't we work together to build that, right? So, no,

5:37

you can't have ice cream. How dare you even ask me?

5:40

It's okay, let's talk about

5:42

this. Let's understand each other. It's providing

5:44

more context. It is getting

5:47

to the root of their need. Okay, why do you feel like you

5:49

need ice cream? We had ice cream yesterday. Well,

5:51

I'm kind of, I'm just, I'm kind of bored or

5:53

I want something sweet. Oh, hey, let's find

5:55

a way to meet that need. It's a little bit different.

5:58

My son, he's seven years old.

5:59

And right now, any

6:02

parents would be shocked to hear, he doesn't

6:04

want to go to bed on time. So instead

6:07

of me screaming at him, go the heck to bed,

6:09

I'm tired of you, I don't want to look at you, go to bed,

6:11

go to bed, go to bed, stop what you're doing, spanking

6:14

him, all kinds of stuff that when parents

6:16

get really frustrated, they might do. I said to

6:18

them, now I'd say, look buddy, I'm super tired,

6:20

you're super tired. Let's have a great day

6:22

tomorrow, what do you want to do tomorrow? Oh, I want

6:25

to do this, this, this, cool. Do you want to be

6:27

exhausted while you're doing that? Or do you want to have some

6:29

energy to do that tomorrow? Oh, I want to be, I want to

6:31

have energy, sweet fun. Great, okay,

6:33

hey, going to bed at this time would be really

6:35

helpful for that. What do you need from me so that you

6:37

can ease off into sleep? Oh, I need another

6:39

song. Oh, I need 10 more minutes to read my little

6:41

book. Okay, I need whatever, and I work with

6:44

him on it, right? Cooperation, cooperation,

6:47

context, listening, taking

6:49

each other seriously,

6:51

that's what a secure relationship looks like. No

6:53

drama, just helping each other.

6:56

Oh my gosh, I can already tell

6:58

you're such a good papa, I love to hear that so much.

7:01

It's so refreshing. And

7:03

then when you bring up that statistic of, what

7:05

did you say, 35%, 30%, I'm not surprised

7:10

because of, I mean, just existing in

7:12

the world and what people you're

7:15

exposed to and what parenting styles and advice

7:17

you're exposed to. And it's like anyone

7:19

with a camera can now pretend to have

7:22

wisdom and suggest parenting

7:24

advice. And oftentimes they don't even have kids,

7:26

which is the kicker. It's

7:28

this idea, me and my husband call it

7:30

90s parenting, like

7:33

a lot of the times when you see 90s

7:35

parenting and it's do as I say,

7:37

I'm not gonna offer an explanation.

7:39

And often there's like a physical repercussion,

7:42

right? Like there's a whack, a spanking, a belt.

7:45

It's not teaching someone to

7:47

understand agency, sovereignty,

7:50

cooperation, cause and effect.

7:52

Like there's no understanding or learning,

7:55

it's your teaching compliance. And then do you want

7:57

someone that is going to be easily persuaded?

8:00

duped and not learn to think

8:02

for themselves? Or do you want an independent

8:05

sovereign being when they become an adult? Like, do you want

8:07

them to be whole? And if the answer is yes,

8:09

then they need to challenge authority, even if that authority

8:12

is you. And they can do it in a respectful way, but

8:15

answer the lies. And then like you said,

8:17

like, how can we get, how can we both get

8:20

what we need? And then honoring like their

8:22

development. And that's what we do with our son. Cause again,

8:25

shock or bedtime is not necessarily always

8:27

easy, but it's, if you don't get rest,

8:30

you are going to feel like junk tomorrow. And then he's been

8:32

doing this thing where he wakes up at like

8:35

four in the morning, just screaming, mama,

8:37

Papa, I'm awake. And

8:39

I'm like, it's still the middle of

8:41

the night. And explaining every time you do

8:44

that, that makes us tired. And then we're cranky.

8:46

And do you like when we're cranky? And it's just

8:48

providing so much more context, but I guess

8:51

getting into the alternative parenting style,

8:53

I feel like I know I'm going to guess

8:55

your answer, but does spanking

8:58

work? Does physical punishment

8:59

work? So here's an interesting question

9:01

because the research, the biggest, biggest,

9:04

biggest

9:05

experiment that they ever did with physical discipline,

9:08

I have a major problem with it. And there's

9:10

a whole movement called peaceful parenting

9:12

and people cite this study over and over

9:15

about physical discipline. And they

9:17

say, look, kids who don't have physical

9:19

discipline have much better mental

9:22

health outcomes than children who experienced physical

9:24

discipline. And that sounds on the surface, sounds

9:26

amazing. But here's the problem. So

9:28

they took kids who have zero physical

9:31

discipline. Well, what are those parents doing instead? They

9:33

probably are reading books, they're probably getting training,

9:35

they're probably learning about how to have healthy

9:37

attachment. They probably learned about healthy attachment.

9:40

That's why they're rejecting all the physical

9:42

discipline, trying to connect with their kids differently.

9:45

They put them in one camp over here. And in the

9:47

other camp, they put any kind

9:49

of physical discipline whatsoever, like

9:51

a swat on the hand, a club in the head

9:53

with a two by four, all just dumped into one big

9:55

pot. And parents with no parenting

9:58

skills or very few parenting skills got put in. So

10:00

then they said, look, if you have somebody

10:03

over here who never ever uses drugs,

10:05

they have better mental health outcomes, opposed

10:07

to people who use drugs like aspirin

10:10

and meth. And that's the difference

10:12

there. So I haven't seen compelling

10:14

research that shows that spanking

10:17

itself can be really

10:18

harmful. Now what I have seen in

10:21

anecdotal there was a licensed marriage and family therapist

10:23

for many years is parents who use physical

10:26

discipline to vent their frustration with their child. Parents

10:29

who use any kind of discipline, physical or

10:31

otherwise, where they don't explain it. Parents

10:34

who don't go through the experience with

10:36

the child, who just use it arbitrarily the first time,

10:38

right? What I train

10:40

parents to do is if you are going to use physical

10:43

discipline, for example, like spanking, sit

10:44

your child down. Explain to them

10:47

the consequence that could come. Explain to them that this is

10:49

something so important that you need to make sure that they

10:51

remember it. There

10:54

is a principle called biofeedback when we experience

10:56

pain. It makes that memory stronger. But

10:59

you explain to them, look, this is so dangerous. I

11:02

will do this, or

11:04

if you continue to do this, and reserve physical discipline

11:06

for like, hey, I am throwing a flaming

11:09

axe at my brother's head, right? Reserve

11:11

physical discipline for really dangerous things if you're

11:13

going to use it. But sit them down, explain

11:15

in advance, and then warm them the next time it actually

11:17

happens. Hey, this is a warning, buddy. I

11:20

don't want to do this. Then when it happens,

11:22

you don't just grab them and go to town and start wailing on them. You sit

11:24

them down and say, look, this is

11:26

a serious thing. I warned you about

11:28

this, so here's what's about to happen. I don't like it, and I know

11:30

you don't like it. We're going to do this, and then

11:33

we're going to talk it through, okay? Do

11:35

you understand why this is happening? Then if you're

11:38

going to spank, at that point you spank. Then you pick

11:40

them up and you say, okay, I didn't like this either. I'm

11:42

sorry that this happened. Let's

11:44

make sure together this never happens again. Here's the plan

11:46

going forward. Can we both

11:48

do this? What do you need from me to be able to do

11:50

this? Use it more like maybe

11:53

an employer would use a write-up or a performance

11:55

improvements plan. If you're going to use

11:57

physical discipline at all, that is the only

11:59

method. method that I can condone because the child fully

12:02

understands what's happening and why and

12:04

they maintain that agency and they know how

12:06

to stop that from happening in the future. That's

12:09

it. What do

12:10

you think of that? I think that that sounds great.

12:13

I would challenge

12:16

the application of it. Like how so

12:18

right that like that sounds perfect in a

12:20

vacuum if you have someone so there's this there's

12:23

this thought it's like a Zen a

12:26

Zen fable essentially like a samurai

12:29

fable and you have this samurai

12:32

leader that takes over this this village

12:34

or this this kingdom dynasty whatever and

12:37

he gets the leader into a room and he's supposed

12:39

to execute him so he goes in and he's

12:41

ready to behead the guy and

12:43

the the guy spits in his face

12:46

and then the samurai gets enraged so

12:48

he takes a breath and he leaves the room and

12:50

the guy's like ha ha ha I just won

12:52

right and then he comes back the next

12:54

day and he goes to execute

12:57

him and he's like well why

12:59

didn't you just do it the the day before

13:01

he's like well because you you

13:03

made me angry and my emotions

13:05

were in control and I can't make

13:07

a decision out of anger

13:09

I have to make it from a place of being centered

13:12

so I had to center myself and he centered himself

13:14

and went in and chopped the guy's head off so it's not like

13:17

the guy avoided what was going to happen

13:19

but the samurai had a code of ethics which is I

13:21

have to do something from a place of centeredness

13:24

and not a place of being reactionary so

13:27

where I have an issue with this concept

13:29

is I think and this is just my

13:32

just what I see it's like people

13:35

are it's very hard to self-regulate

13:37

it's for most people it's very hard for them to

13:39

know why they do what they do let alone

13:42

when they're in the throes of like a

13:44

toddler tantrum so I think so many

13:46

people when they do exercise physical punishment

13:49

it's in that moment it's like I'm pissed and whack

13:51

here you go you did something wrong that's

13:54

not the way to do it so I wonder

13:56

how many people are even able to and how many people are

13:58

doing it this way the centered

14:00

way.

14:01

And that is a fantastic question. If you

14:03

get to a place where you cannot, and people

14:05

will have to self-regulate and self-assess,

14:08

if you cannot do this in a

14:10

dispassionate way, you cannot

14:13

do it. Physical discipline won't work because

14:15

what you're gonna do, and what the research shows, is

14:17

the child won't learn the lesson to

14:20

change their behavior. The child will learn to avoid

14:22

you so that they don't face those consequences

14:25

because now they don't understand. Everything is

14:27

based on your mood. Absolutely not.

14:29

Nothing can be based on your mood. It must be

14:31

based on pure, calm logic and

14:33

rules that they can understand. And if

14:35

you, you're exactly, you've got it right.

14:38

If you cannot maintain

14:40

your control and your discipline, you cannot do this.

14:42

And that is the number one lesson, I think, for any parents,

14:44

whether you use physical discipline or not, is learn

14:47

to manage your mood and your anger because

14:49

your children rely on you for stability.

14:51

They rely on you for understanding

14:54

why you're doing certain things, why you're

14:56

reacting. You are modeling for

14:58

them every relationship they will ever have.

15:01

And the worst thing you can do is let your

15:03

mood and your emotions or your traumas

15:05

completely railroad that relationship and

15:08

train your child to live around some of this trauma. Worst

15:10

thing you can do. I 100% like you, Candice.

15:12

Yeah, and it's like the person that represents,

15:15

there's this idea that your parents, up

15:18

into a point, represent God. Like they are God

15:20

to you, right? Like they are everything to you and they

15:22

are the sun and you revolve around them. So they

15:25

are the arbiters of love and truth and

15:28

right and wrong and safety and all of these things.

15:31

And then you have that God, right? That

15:33

unconditioned, what is supposed to be, I should say, unconditional

15:36

love. And then now that's met

15:38

with fear and violence that becomes disruptive

15:40

and so confusing to a little person.

15:43

So if you're not able to, which I would argue most

15:45

people, like I would probably guess in the 90th

15:48

percentile are not able to do this without

15:50

an emotional charge. Then you create

15:52

that like schism, you create that

15:55

tear in that relationship and

15:57

then that goes out into adulthood. So now you

15:59

go into the world. not feeling safe and unable

16:01

to attach because this person that's supposed to love me

16:03

is also going to be the resource of a

16:06

lot of pain and sometimes physical.

16:07

And this is exactly why the research shows

16:09

that about half of those people who have insecure

16:12

attachment right that's 65% about

16:14

half of them have what's called avoidant attachment of

16:17

I don't believe other people will regulate

16:19

themselves I don't believe other people are

16:21

capable of being calm and

16:23

rational during a crisis I think I

16:25

have to solve everything myself I have

16:27

to keep people out with a wall and I will

16:29

avoid emotional intimacy so

16:32

many of these guys come flooding into my

16:34

coaching practice so that I can train them on

16:36

emotional intimacy with their female partner

16:39

on how to open up and have a conversation with

16:41

her on how to share needs on

16:43

how to be loving and

16:45

connected in a way that isn't just throwing love

16:47

bombing at her but to really build

16:50

emotional intimacy so much so many of these guys

16:52

they attract insecure women because those are the only

16:54

people they know how to manage they spend their time managing

16:57

other people but they hate it so they come to me

16:59

and I train them look this is how to feel

17:01

safe this is how to open up

17:03

this is how to share your needs and they're like

17:06

why would I do this this is terrible this

17:08

is what it never ends well no wait a minute your

17:10

parents trained you that

17:12

they trained you to believe that and then you have

17:14

had biased experiences through your life that have

17:16

reconfirmed that but you can build

17:18

this so everybody listening if

17:20

you are like crying right now because you're like those were

17:22

my parents I'll never get better no no no there

17:25

are you there's ways to learn how to get better

17:27

how to build intimacy how to open up

17:30

this is all fixable it is all fixable just

17:32

don't do it your kids they don't have to fix it

17:34

exactly like you have an obligation

17:36

to constantly be working on yourself and

17:39

your marriage for your children

17:41

right it's like you don't want to pass on all of your

17:43

damage and all of your pain and constantly

17:46

be evolving so that hopefully they're more evolved

17:48

than you

17:48

right and and so many of our parenting skills

17:50

we think we have the 90s parenting skills it's

17:53

residual trauma from generations

17:56

of brokenness surviving through difficulties

17:58

surviving through catastrophes just

18:01

get the kids in line, because I have an 18 hour shift

18:03

at the factory, just get through,

18:05

I'm barely surviving, single parents barely

18:07

making ends meet. It's surviving

18:10

behaviors that we now have used as

18:12

parenting behaviors. All of us now, like the

18:14

work you're doing, helping people learn with parenting

18:16

and everything, all of that is bringing

18:19

back skills that were there before all these

18:21

catastrophes fell upon us, and

18:23

we are learning parenting skills for the first

18:25

time ever. We're bringing it back into our

18:27

culture, so I value what you're doing and how you're helping

18:29

people

18:29

too, Candice.

18:30

I appreciate it, thank you. So

18:33

I have a question with these men that are

18:35

recognizing their own attachment issues

18:37

and coming to you, and do you

18:39

feel like part of the reason, part of

18:42

the origin of that story or the development

18:44

of that attachment style that is not

18:47

secure in whatever area that it is, whether it's avoidant

18:49

or, what's the other one?

18:51

Avoidant, anxious, and disorganized.

18:53

Right, so it's one of those other three. I

18:56

find a lot of the men that have one

18:58

of those, they typically had a mother

19:01

that was like that new feminist

19:04

era, like they were the working mom, and

19:06

they just weren't, they outsourced motherhood,

19:08

so they would have the full-time nanny

19:11

or daycare. Someone else would be cooking,

19:13

someone else would be cleaning since they were working, and it's not

19:16

to shame women that have ambitions outside of the

19:18

household. I think it's so important

19:20

that no matter if you're a mom or a woman

19:23

or if you're a man or your father or both,

19:25

that you need to have something outside of

19:28

your functions and your roles,

19:30

right? Like you need to have passions, you

19:32

need to have a career or some

19:34

kind of philanthropy work. Like there needs to be,

19:36

you are a multidimensional person and you have so

19:38

many needs that exist outside of those functions

19:41

that you play, whether it's wife, husband, father, mother.

19:44

So this is not going back to

19:46

like barefoot in the kitchen and that's all you're supposed to do.

19:48

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that

19:50

there was an over-correction where

19:53

this lie that was perpetuated on

19:55

a lot of our mothers, which was being

19:57

a boss babe, being a career.

20:00

woman is the only thing that matters.

20:02

It's actually embarrassing if you're a stay-at-home mom.

20:05

They don't need you, right? Like these are

20:07

just, their needs can be fulfilled at a daycare.

20:10

So as long as you're there to put

20:12

them to bed, that's all that matters. And then you have

20:14

all of these kids that are now growing

20:17

up as millennials and Gen Zs

20:19

and we have anxiety, we

20:21

have depression, we have lack

20:23

of direction and purpose and

20:27

like nothing excites us. It's

20:29

like, if you were to ask me when I was

20:31

getting out of high school and even worth getting out of

20:33

college, it's like, what makes

20:36

you feel alive? Like what, like what

20:39

is, what are your real curiosity? So many people are

20:41

like, I don't know. I don't know what I want to do. It's what you

20:43

hear like nine, 18, 19 year olds. Well, what do you want

20:45

to do? Like, what do you want to do with your life? I don't

20:47

know. We'll just go for a general like liberal arts

20:49

degree. I don't know. Like, why don't we

20:51

know? It's that we have fundamentally,

20:53

fundamentally lost our connection with ourselves.

20:57

And with like, with our sovereignty,

20:59

with knowing that we have our

21:02

own resources, like we can, we are capable,

21:05

like where there seems to be a lack

21:07

of faith within ourselves. And to

21:09

me, I think a lot of that is the breakdown of

21:12

getting both parents out of the household for

21:14

most of the day.

21:15

I agree with you fully. What I see

21:18

is people come in, they are either very avoidant

21:20

because they just don't know that other people can ever

21:22

be trusted. Maybe they were in daycare and

21:25

they learned that they'd have to compete with other kids

21:27

to get their needs met from a stranger or facilitator.

21:30

Maybe they were in the NICU in the first three

21:32

weeks of life and they didn't get the toxicosin.

21:34

They were crying. They were not

21:37

held the way that they needed to be just because

21:39

it's not mom's fault. It's just like medical

21:41

issues made that happen. Maybe

21:43

mom came home exhausted every day and could

21:45

barely put energy into playing with the child or

21:48

connecting. So the child thought mom doesn't

21:50

want me. Mom isn't connecting with me because she doesn't

21:52

want me. Sometimes they say, you know,

21:55

the brain says other people aren't to

21:57

be trusted because they are just, they're

21:59

dysregulated. they're messed up. I'm okay.

22:01

I will take care of myself. That's the avoidant piece.

22:04

But sometimes people say something I did was

22:06

wrong. There's something wrong in me. Everybody

22:08

sees it and it's unlovable and no one

22:10

will ever care about me. That's the anxious

22:13

attachment style. I actually grew up with

22:15

that myself of feeling like I was

22:17

unlovable. And I had to fix that alone

22:19

at about 20, 21 years of age. I had

22:21

to fix it. It was horrible trying to do

22:24

it all alone. So then I went to school and

22:26

I studied psychology to become a therapist to help

22:28

other people do what I had done. Then I took

22:30

that system. I built it into a program.

22:33

It's my attachment bootcamp video course on my website

22:35

right now. Hopefully we'll put some links

22:37

down in the show notes for that. But that

22:40

course right there, a lot of people take that and the

22:42

number one step, the number one step to fixing

22:44

all of this, you guys is even just learning that this exists.

22:47

Like you said, Candice, it was an eye opening moment for

22:49

you when you learned that attachment exists. So usually

22:51

people listen to this and they say, I

22:53

can't believe this. This is everything.

22:56

And it is. So yes,

22:59

it's real. Yes, fix it. And

23:02

yes, we need to do better for our kids. We can't just

23:04

play this game of saying, you know, whatever,

23:06

they'll get their needs met. Kids are resilient.

23:09

I don't think we should play the kids are resilient card anymore.

23:11

Have you? Well, there's a key for that. There's a key

23:13

for

23:13

resilience, right? And not everyone

23:15

has it. And I don't believe it's super

23:18

common. That was an area that I wanted

23:20

to get into because there's this idea that we perpetuate,

23:22

which is kids are resilient. Like, no, they're just

23:24

really good at hiding their emotions and shutting

23:26

down. That's what kids are good at. And then

23:28

that turns into addiction later

23:30

on in life. Oh, absolutely.

23:32

Which is devastating. But

23:34

yeah, the idea of, and you see this a lot

23:36

of like the bro culture and a lot of like the

23:39

man culture, which is provide,

23:41

provide, provide, pursue, you can sleep

23:43

when you're dead. And it's this idea

23:46

that pressure builds

23:48

diamonds, right? And you can be forged

23:50

in the fire. And while that is true for some

23:53

people, some very strong

23:55

motherfuckers, it's not true

23:57

for everyone and some amount of pressure.

24:00

breaks things and destroys things

24:02

to a point where it's beyond repair.

24:05

So that's a really big gamble to take with somebody

24:07

or yourself. And you unless you are

24:10

very self-aware and you know where

24:12

your boundaries are, like that whole flow

24:14

challenge chart, like you want to have just the

24:16

right amount of challenge

24:18

to be able to get into a flow state and really crush

24:21

whatever you're doing. But if you break that,

24:23

if you go outside of that bounds and there's

24:25

too much of a challenge, you actually shut down and it's

24:27

counterproductive. So we blankly

24:30

prescribe these like things that sound catchy,

24:32

right? Like pressure builds diamonds, you're

24:34

forged in the fire, like use that good,

24:37

all of this stuff. And yes, that's true. If you have that

24:39

wiring or you have keeping

24:41

yourself within that perfect, that

24:45

perfect chart between challenge and flow. But like,

24:47

again, it's not, it's not wholly true.

24:50

And I think that we're really tough on kids. And

24:52

often what looks like them coping with things

24:54

is, is not healthy.

24:55

Absolutely. Well, just to get a little

24:58

dark for a moment, there are some slogans that

25:00

sound great that have been used throughout history

25:02

for evil purposes. I believe it was above

25:04

the camp at Auschwitz. They had work shall set

25:06

you free and no, it didn't.

25:09

So pressure creates diamonds. Well,

25:11

cool. But pressure in what areas?

25:13

Pressure for how long? Right?

25:15

Pressure with what kind of support system? Pressure

25:18

with a team? Pressure that

25:20

keeps you together with people? Pressure when you're

25:22

alone? Pressure on your deepest

25:24

insecurities? Pressure where? And for

25:27

how long are you going to be able to endure it? You know,

25:29

cortisol release can shred your body

25:31

and destroy you. And also blocks the

25:34

production and release of oxytocin, which is your

25:36

bonding hormone. So if you're always under pressure,

25:38

you'll actually stop bonding with other people.

25:41

And oxytocin, by the way, helps a lot with chronic

25:43

pain. It releases GABA, gamma amino

25:45

biuretic acid, which is an inhibitory neurotransmitter,

25:48

which builds resilience by giving you anti-anxiety

25:50

and anti-depressant pieces, and also

25:52

helps release melatonin. So you can sleep

25:55

at night. So high pressure for long

25:57

periods of time that crushes your oxytocin production.

26:00

diminishes your ability to deal with pressure.

26:02

Yes, periods of pressure sometimes can

26:04

help you get stronger. They can help you grow. But

26:07

a prolonged, intense pressure, it shreds

26:10

you. It destroys you. Otherwise, people wouldn't have heart

26:12

attacks. We

26:14

need to be aware of the words we're using and

26:16

the pressure we're putting on ourselves. There

26:19

are times where we don't have options, right? There's

26:21

times where single moms have to work and you have

26:23

to say, my kids are gonna, they're gonna get hurt.

26:25

It's gonna suck. We're gonna have very little time together.

26:28

But you must then step in

26:30

and say, what can I do to mitigate this? So one

26:32

thing that I train parents in, when they come in

26:34

and they say, Adam, I barely have any time

26:37

with my kids and their attachment is really

26:39

weak. Maybe they're

26:41

having a bunch of behavior problems.

26:43

They're acting out. They're angry

26:45

at me a lot. They're throwing tantrums. One

26:48

thing I step in and do is I have the 10 minute challenge.

26:50

It's 10 minutes a day of

26:53

focused, branching questions

26:55

where you, the parent, are not allowed to make any statements.

26:57

You're not allowed to have teaching moments. You're not allowed to

27:00

discipline. You're not allowed to tell

27:02

them what to do. You ask questions,

27:05

probing questions about the child, about

27:07

their interests, about why they're interested

27:09

in that. Who's your favorite Power Ranger? Why?

27:12

What does that make you feel? And you just ask

27:14

questions while playing some kind of a game or doing

27:16

a puzzle, something with your hands for 10

27:19

minutes a day. And it is amazing

27:22

what kind of relief this brings because it bonds

27:24

the child and makes the child feel like they're worthy

27:26

of your time and that you care about them

27:29

and that they can open up to you without it being

27:31

any backlash and that you

27:33

actually care 10 minutes a day. I

27:35

have seen angry teenagers with 10 minutes

27:38

a day for 30 days in a row, I've

27:40

seen angry teenagers turn around and becoming

27:42

loving members of the family who come out of their rooms,

27:45

who sit with you, who eat meals with you

27:47

because they actually feel like you love them and care

27:49

about them. So yeah, kids are resilient

27:52

and they'll beautifully said, can they still hide it?

27:54

And they'll get really good at hiding it. But

27:56

sharing the time with them and building those bonds,

27:59

it requires a little. less time than most of us

28:01

think. The more time you can spend, great,

28:03

but focused time. So

28:05

many parents don't have a plan for focused time. Have

28:07

you seen that?

28:08

Yeah, I think that's very common. I think that

28:10

there's probably a lot of reasons for it. I think mostly

28:13

it's overwhelmed and whatever their cause

28:15

of that is, I don't think that that matters. Like

28:17

it could be your hormones, like if you're postpartum,

28:19

it could be work-life balance. It

28:21

could be that you're in depression and you might not know

28:24

it. And I was talking to one

28:26

of my spiritual teachers, his name is Dr.

28:28

Carlos Warder, and he's been feeling

28:31

like a really big drive to look at parenting,

28:33

which I would love to get into, the lack

28:35

of people having children primarily.

28:38

But he says so many people, so

28:40

many parents are so lost,

28:43

like they don't know what to do with their kid

28:45

and they're so exhausted that it's constantly

28:48

like this ebb and flow between feed the kid,

28:50

put the kid to bed, feed the kid, put the kid

28:52

to bed. And that's all that they know to do and that's

28:55

all that they're doing. And that's not a real deep

28:57

connection. That doesn't require

28:59

any presence. You can absolutely go on autopilot

29:01

and be in a daze and do all of those things. So

29:04

even taking the 10 minutes to be focused and

29:06

actually look into their eyes, like if you

29:08

don't know the last time you've done that with, like even

29:10

if it's your husband, your wife, or your child,

29:13

you see them like, oh, you see me. And

29:15

that's so important to be seen,

29:17

to know that we are seen. And it seems

29:20

like it doesn't need to be said, but I think it does

29:23

for a lot of people. So he's like, we have

29:25

these parents that are ebbing and flowing between

29:28

feeding their kid and putting their kid to bed. And

29:30

what does that leave us? That leaves us with a society that's

29:32

asleep and obese, right? And that's

29:34

kind of where we're at. And it was

29:37

like an interesting metaphor, but I

29:39

think a lot of times, yeah, we're overwhelmed and we don't

29:41

realize how impactful just real connection

29:44

is, even if it is 10 minutes.

29:45

Yeah, just being able to sit down

29:48

for 10 minutes and have a discussion with somebody

29:51

where you ask them a question, then you ask

29:53

them a question about their answer. Then you ask them

29:55

a question about that answer. When guys

29:57

come in, when avoidant men or

29:59

anxious men

29:59

into my coaching for dating help,

30:02

for example. They have no idea how

30:04

to talk to women. Women and moms

30:06

used to train men for how to talk

30:08

to women. And men don't know how to talk to

30:10

women anymore because their moms and their sisters and aunts

30:13

and grandmas didn't really talk to them this way either. They

30:15

didn't have time. So guys come into my coaching practice

30:17

and they say, Adam, I can never get a second

30:19

date. And women just say they think I'm not interested.

30:22

And I say, buddy, do

30:24

you switch topics all the time?

30:26

Are you constantly trying to be interesting?

30:29

And bring

30:29

up new topics all the

30:32

time? Well, yeah, I wanna be interesting. Or

30:34

otherwise she'll lose interest and she'll go date someone else.

30:36

And I say, somebody along

30:38

the way taught you that they will not

30:41

take you seriously or pay attention

30:43

to you unless you're interesting to

30:45

them. And here's a point for parents. If

30:47

you're training your kids that they have to be interesting

30:50

to get your attention, that's

30:52

the problem. So these guys, what I say

30:54

is look, if somebody asked

30:56

you a question and you gave an answer and they just looked

30:58

at you and then asked you a question about a completely

31:01

different topic as if your question didn't matter, how

31:04

would you feel? Oh, I would feel

31:06

pretty bad. Yeah, did you ever have someone do that to you?

31:08

Well, yeah, my dad, like he never wanted to

31:10

talk about me. Okay, here's your

31:12

chance to learn how to talk to women. Act

31:14

like what they said mattered.

31:17

Well, why? Because

31:20

that tells them you're listening. It tells

31:22

them you're not just pushing buttons to receive sex.

31:24

It tells them that you're capable of carrying a conversation.

31:27

You're capable of listening to them. You want to get to know

31:29

them. You're going to share with them a little

31:32

bit about you. Ask more questions

31:34

about the answers they gave you. And when

31:36

guys do this, their dating life improves

31:39

like 50%. And all of a sudden

31:41

the women are very engaged and thoughtful and talking

31:43

to them and asking questions back. But

31:46

it all starts in childhood. If you don't ask

31:47

your kids questions, like I ask my kids all

31:49

the time, hey, buddy, what are you drawing there?

31:51

Oh, it's Godzilla. Oh, hey, cool, Godzilla.

31:54

Which Godzilla is it? Oh, it's this one. Is

31:56

he your favorite? Yeah, why is he your favorite?

31:58

Well, because he, you know, what I mean.

31:59

He knocks down buildings super super

32:02

loud. He he's the cool color. He's purple

32:04

or you know, whatever it is cool Why is

32:06

that why is that great? Who do you what's your favorite

32:08

monster the Godzilla fights? Do you always like

32:10

Godzilla or do you like the monsters the other monsters

32:12

better sometimes asking these questions? They

32:15

learn that they don't have to be interesting because

32:18

they are Interesting think of it

32:20

that way you're training your kids for one

32:22

dating pool, which is interest and stimulation Or

32:25

you're training them for the other dating pool, which

32:27

is companionship

32:29

Transparency and cooperation

32:31

which dating pool are you training your kids into for life?

32:35

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and which one which

32:37

one is going to last

32:39

right which one is gonna

32:40

Right if everything is built

32:43

on a facade at some point Like

32:45

that we go back to pressure is going to be

32:48

too much and either it's going to be exposed in

32:50

one way or another whether Intentionally

32:52

or not and then it's like

32:55

I mean you can use the topic of

32:58

I think sexuality Is a really good one because

33:00

I get so many couples that I

33:02

talked to you whether it's like emails or DMS and They

33:05

can't even have the conversation with like

33:07

their husband or wife around sex and yeah But

33:10

that's a purse but go all in

33:12

with that person like there should be no shame

33:14

around that topic Whatever and they

33:17

can't have the communication there. So if someone

33:19

has a need that's not being met Well,

33:21

then they start outsourcing it right

33:23

because like there's so much shame around it And then when

33:25

that gets discovered, there's a sense of

33:27

betrayal and then you're like, well she

33:30

she or he wouldn't have accepted me If

33:33

I shared that well, that's making a really big assumption And

33:35

then if they don't accept you for that then they're

33:38

what they're accepting is not really

33:40

you to begin with So then what do you have

33:42

can I launch

33:43

on this because this is something I work with so

33:45

much So let's talk about the brain

33:47

chemicals really quick. So when you have weak Attachment

33:50

as a child and you don't connect other people you don't share

33:52

your needs you stay locked at locked down inside There's

33:55

five big brain chemicals. We need to talk about there's more

33:57

than this, but let's talk about these five oxy

34:00

So bonding in the absence of stress,

34:02

warmth, care, nurturing, I'm loved,

34:04

we're hugging, we can be open and relaxed,

34:06

fantastic. Gabba, gamma amino

34:08

biurek acid, an inhibitory neurotransmitter

34:11

that's released especially when the presence of oxytocin.

34:14

It's anti-anxiety, anti-depression. These

34:17

two are your brain saying, I don't have to be stressed

34:19

or sad because people love me. That's

34:22

what that cocktail is right there. Then you've

34:24

got what's called vasopressin. Vasopressin is a hormone

34:26

released in the presence

34:28

of stress when you solve it with somebody else.

34:31

We have worked as a team. My brain recognizes

34:34

teamwork and says, we did this

34:36

together. I want to keep you around vasopressin.

34:39

Men have more receptors for this than women do. Go

34:41

figure. Men are goal-oriented and team-oriented.

34:44

But then that loops back around because then they want to

34:46

oxytocin bond with you because they want to keep you in

34:48

the relationship with them. So it kind of feeds

34:50

back and forth. It's cool. Serotonin,

34:53

which is linked in a lot of ways to mood, mental

34:55

health. Serotonin, yes, you can release

34:57

it through exercise, through clean eating, through

34:59

taking walks, through journaling. But a

35:02

huge amount of it should come through

35:04

your healthy relationships, good conversations,

35:06

feeling accepted, talking deeply with

35:09

other people. When you don't have deep conversations

35:11

and that deeper connection, you're missing these

35:13

four, which means dopamine on

35:15

the end is the number one thing you're binging.

35:18

So you have these four very weak or gone

35:20

or largely gone, and then you have dopamine,

35:23

dopamine, dopamine. So this is the mental health

35:25

cycle here in America. And then we binge dopamine,

35:27

pornography, cheating,

35:30

sugar, caffeine, transfers, some

35:32

of your serotonin over into dopamine. It's one of the things

35:35

it does. Anything that makes you feel good, any addiction,

35:37

a lot of addictions over here, instant

35:40

dopamine dump. This is why people do

35:42

this. So for the first seven months in a relationship,

35:44

you've got novelty and fun. Hey, tons

35:46

of dopamine sex happening during this time.

35:49

And if you're avoidant, you do things that make the other person

35:51

feel loved and safe and you could get

35:54

them some oxytocin, but you won't really

35:56

feel it yourself. The anxious person

35:58

will feel it. Then they feel approved. and

36:00

loved and accepted for the first time in their life, they

36:02

get really addicted to it. But seven months,

36:05

the anxious person says, I can't pretend to be

36:07

perfect anymore, you're eventually gonna abandon me.

36:09

And the avoidant person says, I have poured everything into

36:11

this relationship and I'm exhausted, I kinda

36:13

need some space. The avoidant person kinda

36:16

pulls back, the anxious person gets anxious

36:18

and chases, and now from seven to 12 months,

36:20

they kinda play this game of, I'm not sure

36:23

this is right for me, but we can't talk

36:25

about it, let's just try to make each other feel good, more

36:27

dopamine binging. This is usually where a lot

36:29

of avoidant people will say, man, I'm not feeling

36:31

good, I need something to feel good,

36:33

but they don't know oxytocin exists, so

36:36

they chase dopamine, they start looking on apps,

36:38

right? They start going cruising on Instagram,

36:40

they do all kinds of stuff to kinda think like, well,

36:42

what can I be doing instead? Grass is greener

36:44

somewhere else. This is why the sex

36:46

drive for the couples drops off a cliff at about

36:49

one year because oxytocin, for

36:52

both partners, it usually switches to the sex

36:54

drive to oxytocin at one year. We

36:56

know it does it for women because women start

36:58

wanting, well, I'm not intimately bonded to you, so my sex

37:00

drive goes down. If you have high oxytocin

37:02

and secure attachment with your partner, you're

37:05

open, you're sharing, you're friendly, you're excited,

37:07

oxytocin takes over and your sex drive pretty much goes

37:10

up and stays high, like for life with oxytocin,

37:13

but the male sex drive also needs to go up with oxytocin.

37:15

These are the guys that say, I could never imagine just

37:18

having sex with one woman for the rest of my life.

37:20

That's because he doesn't have any oxytocin experience,

37:22

it's all dopamine, and that's from the novelty. So

37:25

those are my thoughts there, Candace. Have you experienced

37:27

that or worked with couples with this? Is

37:29

this something you're seeing a lot of?

37:32

I see a lot of it, yes. And I think the

37:34

novelty thing is interesting because there's

37:36

so many ways to introduce novelty within

37:38

a relationship, and I think it goes back

37:40

to, like what I would call

37:43

conscious sex, right? I

37:45

think conscious sex most people do not have

37:48

in any dynamic, whether you're monogamous

37:51

and married within union, or if you're

37:53

in a poly situation, I think that there

37:55

is equal amounts of unconscious sex

37:57

happening. And what I call unconscious sex,

38:00

is there's an undertone

38:02

of shame or guilt or insert, disgust,

38:06

whatever that feeling is, secrecy.

38:09

It's not the removal of that.

38:11

It's not the reclamation of connection

38:14

and love and experiencing

38:18

a moment of convergence with someone or

38:20

just, or simply frivolous pleasure,

38:22

right? Like there's, until you have that

38:24

moment where all of that is gone and you can

38:26

be present with that person in that moment, I

38:29

think it's pretty unconscious. Yeah.

38:31

It's kind of like the, hey, I forgot you were here sex,

38:34

right? Where the guy in the company is like, whoa, you're

38:36

not just body parts, you're a person. And she's like,

38:38

what are you doing? That's right.

38:39

And she's not just performing and

38:41

actually focusing on herself. And so many

38:44

people do that. And that's devastating

38:46

for a relationship. And then we

38:48

think that because we

38:50

have an unfulfilled sex life, it's because

38:53

it's not the right person or we

38:55

kind of self sabotage. When really first

38:57

it becomes, the first step is becoming conscious

39:00

with the sex. So removal of the shame and

39:03

being able to like really understand how

39:05

important, necessary and

39:08

powerful that interaction is. And

39:10

then if you get bored, and I

39:12

mean, I've been with the same man for like 13 years,

39:15

right? Like that's, and hopefully until

39:18

I'm old gray and dying, like

39:20

that's the plan. We

39:23

are gonna have to figure out novelty. And what

39:25

does that look like? Well, first

39:27

if I have shame, I can't even have that conversation with

39:29

him. So like, maybe we try this,

39:31

maybe we try that. Maybe we like pretend,

39:34

whatever, right? You have to be able to

39:36

go super deep and at the risk

39:38

of embarrassing yourself with someone to like keep

39:40

it playful. And that's what it's like, never

39:43

stop flirting with your husband or dating

39:45

your wife. That's so important. That's

39:47

so important. And you can't do those things authentically

39:49

if you have shame attached

39:50

to it. You're reminding me of a great

39:53

meme I saw the other day. It says at the beginning

39:55

of sex, women say, be gentle with me. And

39:57

then 10 minutes in they say, okay, now hit me with a brick.

41:53

But

42:00

again, we go back to that vasopressin.

42:02

Men love solving problems with you.

42:04

So we can actually solve all of this together. Women

42:07

who have orgasm problems almost never talk to

42:09

their partners about it or get help with it. They're just

42:11

like, I don't know, whatever, it's fine. Or I'll fake it.

42:13

Or no, I'm just here for you. It's totally okay. I don't need one.

42:16

And what you're doing is shutting down a great avenue

42:18

for bonding with him and bonding him to you. So

42:20

vasopressin sex. Hey, babe, I

42:23

am going to need your help having this orgasm and we're

42:25

going to have it together. And he's like, I'm

42:28

in right. And guys are like, all right, we're doing

42:30

this. If he loves you, he wants to give you like 50 and you're

42:32

like, please no, I want to walk. So

42:35

you have a couple and you enlist

42:37

his help and you guide him and you do this together.

42:39

And when you achieve it, you're like, Oh, this was great.

42:42

And he's like, yeah, and he releases vasopressin

42:44

because you did something together. Now

42:47

he's bonding with you during sex. So every

42:49

sexual experience is a vasopressin

42:51

bonding team building. It's a team building exercise.

42:55

And afterward, he's like, that was awesome.

42:57

And ladies out there like do

42:59

this, enlist his help and having

43:02

that orgasm.

43:02

Dennis,

43:03

do you I get a lot of flack

43:05

for this because people say men don't want to help

43:07

women have orgasms. Do you agree with

43:09

that or disagree with that? Do you think a loving partner

43:11

will help a woman have an orgasm?

43:13

Yes. And I would even I'd stretch

43:16

it to say it doesn't even need to be

43:19

within a commitment. I think that you can have

43:21

someone that you have a very deep connection

43:23

with. And if you have a man, a man

43:26

is going to care about his partner,

43:28

even if they just met, he's gonna

43:30

make sure that like the experience

43:33

is mutually beneficial, right? Like

43:35

that's what a man does a boy takes.

43:37

Right. And that's,

43:39

that is the difference. Great distinction, great

43:41

distinction. So

43:42

ladies, I encourage you enlist his help,

43:45

get him bonded to you. It will be a great experience

43:47

for both of

43:47

you. Yeah. And to add a little bit more

43:50

to like the physiological

43:52

element of this whole exchange so I think

43:55

yes, safety is paramount and this

43:57

goes back to women whether

43:59

you are having casual sex or within

44:01

a committed relationship, if there's

44:04

not safety, there's not going to be orgasm, which

44:06

is why women tend not to have casual

44:08

sex or enjoy it because they don't

44:10

feel safe. Right. Right. So

44:13

it's like, well, why can't I have an orgasm even though I find this guy

44:15

really hot? It's because you don't feel safe. Some part

44:17

of you doesn't feel safe. Now introduce a guy

44:19

that you know, but maybe aren't dating and

44:21

you are attracted to, it will be easier to climax with him

44:24

because he in some way has proven that

44:26

he is a safe man to be around. So safety

44:28

is huge. Women

44:30

and this is one of my soapbox things

44:33

that I've recently found myself on is you see Kegel

44:35

stuff everywhere, at least as a woman,

44:37

right? Kegel, Kegel, Kegel. And

44:39

make sure you're super tight. And again, this

44:41

isn't for you. This is for him. Most

44:44

doctors, if you talk to what's like

44:46

female physical therapists that work on the pelvic

44:49

floor, most women are hyper

44:51

engaged down there. So that shows,

44:53

right, if you believe in chakras or

44:56

energetic storages in the body, like

44:58

that is your safety security. Am

45:00

I okay? That is your base chakra. So

45:02

that is overstimulated, overcontracted,

45:05

constantly tight. That says, I

45:07

don't feel safe on some level that and so

45:09

women are walking around regular

45:12

life not knowing that they are clenched

45:14

because some part of them doesn't feel safe

45:16

and secure. And then they wonder why they

45:18

can't have a fulfilling sex life. It's because you

45:21

fundamentally don't feel safe. So if you're

45:23

out there Kegeling and you're already tight, you're

45:25

actually exacerbating a problem. So

45:27

once you start to feel safe, and once you

45:29

start to do both physical work on that area

45:32

and mental spiritual work on that area, you'll

45:34

find a release and then you'll be able to have a

45:36

more fulfilling sex life. But it shows up and

45:38

manifests medically in that kind of area.

45:41

And I'm sure you've seen this with other illnesses,

45:43

whether it's like specifically probably autoimmune,

45:46

right? There is some weird connection

45:48

between our spiritual,

45:51

psychological and physical self.

45:53

And they all intertwine with each other.

45:55

And a lot of it comes down to how we were raised,

45:58

our traumas, how we deal with stress,

46:00

how we're releasing that our fundamental self,

46:02

sense of safety and wholeness. And

46:05

so ladies, stop doing your Kegels.

46:07

I actually encourage you to relax and figure out,

46:09

do you feel safe? And if not,

46:12

how can I establish safety within

46:14

myself? And I think that's important

46:16

because we outsource that

46:18

we and I definitely see this going

46:21

back into relationship and why people aren't

46:23

getting married, aren't having kids aren't having sex,

46:26

or just avoiding it altogether. It's like

46:28

we're trying to outsource everything instead of understanding

46:30

our own power and our own safety and our own ability

46:32

to give ourselves what we need in order to approach

46:35

a relationship with wholeness and not from

46:37

a deficit where you complete

46:39

me, you're my other half and it's like, well,

46:42

that's a recipe for disaster because

46:44

I want you to feel whole centered faith

46:46

before we can go into building a life together.

46:48

Voluntary interdependence

46:51

is the right term for this not dependence, you

46:53

shouldn't be two people dependent on each other. Voluntary

46:56

interdependence where you have chosen to specialize

46:59

in different areas, usually the masculine

47:01

and the feminine, and you take care of each other

47:03

and complement each other. But to do that, you've got to

47:05

be full people you can't exactly you have

47:08

to do it right. Maybe instead of Kegels, we

47:10

introduced the idea of emotional Kegels, right?

47:12

Emotional Kegels. Do you feel safe? I love

47:15

that you put so much emphasis on safety and women

47:17

do emotional safety. So if

47:19

you have attachment issues, bring it back to attachment

47:22

like we said, when you have attachment

47:24

issues, you never feel safe anywhere,

47:26

even if you objectively should,

47:29

you won't you can't because

47:31

you feel like you are inherently unlovable

47:33

and you're one step away from screwing everything

47:36

up or you're avoidant. A lot of women

47:38

interestingly, they have an oxytocin phobia

47:40

where they start releasing it, they want to run away. So after

47:43

sex like no, and they throw their clothes back on and jump

47:45

out the window to try to escape from oxytocin.

47:47

I help a lot of couples with that. But if you

47:50

cannot relax, even

47:52

when you feel like you should your gut is telling

47:54

you this is a good person, they are kind

47:57

of coaxing you to open up and you cannot

47:59

go there. emotional kegels,

48:01

right? Fix your attachment and then begin

48:03

opening up slowly to the other person. Every

48:06

time you open up to the other partner, that's

48:09

emotional kegels. You're releasing oxytocin

48:12

and you feel so safe and it reconfirms this is

48:14

a good safe person that takes me seriously.

48:17

So if we have sex, if we

48:19

go through this, they will take me seriously and care

48:21

for me. I'm not just here for them to use

48:23

and leave. Build your attachment.

48:26

If you can do that, then you can

48:28

start opening up and have emotional kegels throughout the

48:30

day. And then you're kind of full of relaxes by

48:32

the way. Feels pretty good.

48:34

So there's a sense

48:36

of, and it goes into safety and it

48:39

goes into feeling I'm worthy of love.

48:42

And I think that a lot of men also

48:44

don't feel safe and they also don't

48:46

feel worthy of love and they say fear

48:49

if they even approach a woman

48:51

that they're going to be demonized

48:54

or shouted at or be like

48:57

you're a pig, whatever, you're creepy,

48:59

all of these things. It's really

49:01

crazy. So they again, they give up and we wonder why

49:03

people aren't getting married, having kids, going

49:06

into relationship. It's because the cost seems

49:08

to be too much. And then you have women on the other

49:10

side that are, if he doesn't approach

49:12

me, he's not willing to pay that social

49:14

cost. He's not willing to be vulnerable. So he's

49:17

unworthy of my attention. So now you have two

49:19

people that seem to be at odds. So

49:21

how do you bridge that gap? If you

49:23

have these men that are throwing their hands up in the air

49:25

saying, I don't know what to do because if I do approach, she's

49:28

going to say I'm a creep. But if I don't approach, then I end

49:30

up alone. You

49:31

know, what's funny is the secure

49:33

dating pool of those 35% of people

49:35

when I talk with them, they laugh at this idea

49:37

because they say it's not this complicated. Why are people

49:39

making it this complicated? It's by and large

49:42

a insecure attachment problem of

49:45

constantly hedging your bets, trying

49:47

to figure out who's going to hurt you, trying to figure out how

49:49

you're going to get blindsided next. It's

49:51

this constant game. And yes, there's the me too movement.

49:53

Yes, there's call out all

49:55

over place. So you open TikTok and

49:57

there's your face. Someone like laughing at you. Right?

50:00

And yes, that's fearful, but mostly secure people

50:03

don't really worry much about that. To be honest with

50:05

you, it's shocking to them that people would

50:07

even do that. Insecurely attached people

50:09

are waiting for this all the time because either they

50:11

think other people just will naturally betray them

50:14

or they think that they are inherently unworthy

50:16

of love. So they're wandering around this world trying

50:18

to desperately earn it through codependency.

50:21

So when you want to talk about this and fix

50:23

this man,

50:26

there are steps you must take to fix your inner

50:29

self. You have to define your core

50:31

values, your core principles of who you are. It's the beginning

50:33

of my attachment course. My attachment bootcamp

50:35

is define your core principles of who you

50:38

are and then start making decisions

50:40

according to those principles instead

50:42

of reducing friction or

50:44

trying to make people like you. Appeasement

50:47

and friction reduction and feeling safe.

50:50

Identify how to actually be safe and

50:52

then start living your principles and maybe start

50:54

using those principles as boundaries with other people and

50:56

explain to them, hey, I can't do this because

50:59

I have to always be honest. So let

51:01

me be honest with you about this and they share it and

51:03

they're like, okay,

51:04

I can respect that. If they don't respect it, don't

51:06

be around that person anymore. Start filtering

51:08

for principles and then

51:11

be so much more clear about your goals and what

51:13

you want in life and start talking to people that way.

51:15

I have a three-date method that I teach that filters

51:18

this out really fast on the first three dates

51:20

so that you don't have to wonder at year

51:23

eight if he's going to marry you,

51:25

right? It's been eight years. I get those all the time.

51:27

Adam, it's been eight years. I don't know

51:29

if he's, how can I talk to my boyfriend

51:32

at eight years about if he wants to have

51:34

kids?

51:35

What have you been doing for eight years? Wasting

51:38

your fertility. And so

51:40

many anxiously attached women do this and

51:42

they come to me at eight years like Adam, I'm kind of desperate.

51:45

Like, you know, I'm 34 and

51:47

we've been with it together for eight years and I haven't

51:49

asked him about kids or marriage yet and he hasn't brought it

51:51

up. How do I make him bring it up? Let's

51:55

take a step back. Why don't you feel worthy

51:57

of bringing it up?

51:58

Why are you with somebody who...

51:59

also doesn't want to bring it up. Why are you

52:02

afraid to talk about what you need and

52:04

what you want with your partner? You've been together eight

52:06

years. Why can't you have this conversation?

52:09

Let's talk about you first, and then let's see if

52:11

this person's the right match for you by having some

52:13

of those talks. Let's do that discussion.

52:16

Sometimes their partner comes with them on the journey.

52:18

Sometimes their partner's like, what, you wanna talk about labels

52:20

now? It's eight years, like we're way past that. Don't

52:23

worry about it, like we're married, we're married

52:25

in spirit, don't feel it. And no,

52:27

they don't wanna have that experience of that discussion,

52:29

so then they have to shut it down. And yeah, they have to

52:31

go on a frantic hunt to try to find somebody who

52:34

wants kids pretty quick. And a lot of those women

52:36

come in for help, but

52:38

have those discussions. The

52:40

more you have these talks, the more

52:42

you realize people are not gonna scream at you or

52:44

spit on you for having these discussions. That's

52:47

that childhood fear of when you weren't taken seriously.

52:50

That's your parent yelling at you and whacking

52:52

you because you did something slightly out of

52:54

step on a bad day when they were mad and they didn't

52:56

discipline themselves. That is your

52:59

parent not having time to talk to you so you

53:01

think it's your fault. That's what those fears are

53:03

springing from. Experience is the only

53:05

thing that corrects these fears.

53:07

Yeah, and it just sounds like

53:10

sacrificing your authenticity

53:13

and the life that you actually want

53:15

for an attachment for

53:17

a partner that is only there based

53:19

off of that illusion. That's it. So

53:21

then you lose it.

53:22

That's it. You're not even connected to each other, you're

53:25

just connected to the feelings you give each other.

53:28

And then it's like the thing that you are

53:30

trying to avoid, which is abandonment ends up

53:32

happening because you built the relationship

53:34

on a lie. Yes, you built the relationship.

53:36

It's like almost self-fulfilling prophecy.

53:39

It is, exactly, you got it. It's

53:42

you connected if you're anxious, you connected with

53:44

someone who avoids emotional

53:46

intimacy because it terrifies them. And

53:48

if you're avoidant, you connected with somebody who

53:51

is obsessed with codependency and becomes

53:53

addicted to you and then will chase

53:55

you obsessively and never let you have space.

53:57

So neither one of you will ever really be happy.

54:00

until you fix your attachment and maybe fix it

54:02

with your partner. And going back to that vasopressin

54:04

bonding earlier, if you fix your attachment

54:07

together as a team, there

54:09

is almost nothing else on this earth that bonds

54:11

you quite like that experience because then you are the really

54:14

the truly first first

54:17

real love of the other person and the first

54:19

person that they ever received love from which

54:21

is an incredible experience to

54:24

share with your partner. So fix your attachment

54:26

it makes everything

54:26

better. Yeah I couldn't I couldn't

54:29

agree more and I really love the advice. So going

54:31

back to like the alarming numbers but also

54:34

not shocking at the same time if you only

54:36

have about 30% of people that have a secure

54:38

attachment style and then the rest of the dating pool

54:40

does not, it's kind of inevitable

54:43

that you are going to A. Be a person that doesn't

54:45

have a secure attachment and also find someone that

54:47

doesn't have a secure attachment. So what

54:49

you're left with is only personal development

54:52

and accountability. You can't change other people

54:54

so come up with your principles

54:57

and your virtues and who you want to step into

54:59

as a man and don't waver

55:01

and don't accept anything less than what you deserve.

55:04

So I think it's you can approach it with

55:06

love but if you have this woman that has

55:09

an anything that is an insecure attachment

55:12

and she's behaving in such a way you can present

55:14

with love ways that you will

55:16

not tolerate that behavior and she will

55:19

either and she will she'll hopefully

55:21

if she loves you she'll respect that you stood

55:23

up for yourself and take responsibility

55:26

and say oh my gosh I don't want to lose this man.

55:28

I didn't realize that I

55:30

was even operating this way how

55:33

can I work on myself and through your personal

55:36

development if she loves you and

55:38

this goes both ways then she'll start to work

55:40

on her personal development. There's no like yes

55:43

working on the relationship is a thing but fundamentally

55:46

it comes down to working on personal development because

55:49

as you rise hopefully the person you're with rises

55:51

and if not if that gap is made bigger then

55:54

I think it's just exposing a seam that was already

55:55

there. Oh that is so

55:58

true and to your point to your excellent point

56:00

that most of the dating pool out there right now is going

56:02

to be insecure. A lot of people say, well,

56:04

then I guess I'll give up because I will I'm a man

56:07

I will never find a woman who will ever be secure.

56:09

Women say I will never find a man who is secure

56:11

enough to commit and build a relationship. I

56:14

am astounded. I'm astounded by

56:17

how many women, number one are

56:19

flooding in desperate to learn about attachment,

56:21

right? I blew up on TikTok in about

56:24

six weeks, I went from 300 followers to 180,000. Now I'm at 300,000 and women

56:26

are just like, so hungry

56:32

to learn about attachment. And then they start DMing

56:34

me on the TikTok on Instagram, they read my

56:36

book and they're like, Adam, here is what I learned.

56:38

It was game changing. I am going to apply it

56:41

from now on forever and always

56:43

have these talks. I'm like, yes, it's awesome to hear.

56:45

So there's women out there who are working to improve.

56:47

So guys, don't be afraid. Like every

56:50

woman is going to eat me alive. Red pill stuff. No,

56:52

there's so many women out there who were insecure

56:55

and now have a deeper appreciation for love than

56:57

anybody else because they're looking for you. Women

57:00

out there who are afraid that men don't want commitment

57:02

and that there's no men healing and that everyone's a dude,

57:05

bro. I don't know if this has been your experience, but

57:08

I have been, I have been shocked, equally shocked

57:11

by the number of guys who were dude bros

57:13

and were red pill bros. And they were like, they have these

57:15

pictures of them like flexing in their abs or

57:17

holding a fish, right? On their social media.

57:20

But then they step into my DMS and they're like, Adam, I

57:22

watched three of your videos and I

57:24

learned about this attachment thing. I'm not sure which direction

57:27

to go. This feels like the next part

57:29

of my journey. I have been this, this Jim

57:31

bro for so long. This feels

57:33

like the next step for me. How do I get better

57:35

with my attachment so I can be emotionally

57:38

intimate and it's conversations.

57:40

Women would like women would die if

57:42

they saw these conversations. It was shocking. Men

57:44

are asking for help to learn to

57:46

be emotionally intimate by the scores.

57:49

This is most of the people I end up coaching is guys

57:51

wanting to do this. So women

57:53

out there who feel hopeless that there's no men who want

57:55

commitment, they absolutely do. The

57:57

number one thing I can tell you is to be open

57:59

from

57:59

beginning in your relationship about what you

58:02

want. Men and women don't say, hey, I'm here

58:04

for fun. We'll just see how it goes, whatever,

58:06

it's cool. Be clear about what you want.

58:08

If you're looking for a committed relationship, my

58:11

three date method, end of the first date. Hey, you know

58:13

what, this has been fun. I'm having a great time.

58:15

I just wanna make sure we're on the same page. I

58:18

am looking for a committed relationship down the line. We

58:20

don't have to get married today, but that is what

58:22

I would like to hit. Eventually, are

58:24

you on the same page? If so, great,

58:26

we can have a second date. Guys, this is a really easy way

58:28

to move into that. You can ask for the second date right there, you just

58:30

say that. But you say, great, we have

58:32

a second date. If not, that's awesome. We can finish

58:34

our dinner, we will high five, and we'll go our separate ways. Guys,

58:37

this is a great way to illustrate that you're not just here for casual

58:39

sex. You are actually looking for a committed relationship.

58:42

And ladies, this is a great way here to also advertise

58:44

that you are deeply invested in that intimate relationship

58:47

instead of just trying to get someone to pick you. And

58:49

then you say, what do you want? Are

58:51

you looking for a commitment too? That

58:53

is a great way at the end of the first date and a casual

58:56

way to do all of those things and signal to a

58:58

partner and start filtering. There's a lot of

59:00

ways to do this, but what do you think,

59:02

Candice? Would that work? Is that

59:04

too much? No, I agree. I hate

59:06

when people get, it's like

59:08

one of those matrix boards where

59:10

they're pulling all of these things and they're strategizing.

59:13

And they're like, what do I do? How do I present this topic?

59:15

How do I say what I really want? And how do

59:17

I, I don't know, almost

59:21

create this smoke

59:23

and mirrors and dancing act and look over here,

59:25

but this is what I really want. And they're overcomplicating

59:27

everything. And I'm like, it's been

59:29

a while since I've been in the dating pool, but

59:32

I feel like if I was, that

59:34

I would be pretty straightforward with everything because

59:36

what are you doing? Like if all you

59:38

want is like casual sex, then

59:41

that's, do that, but don't

59:43

do that. And don't pretend

59:45

that's what you want. If what you really want

59:48

is to, if you're dating for marriage, if you're trying

59:50

to find a life partner, if you really want kids,

59:52

or it just be honest with yourself

59:55

and be honest with the other person. Well,

59:57

then he's not your person. And you found

59:59

out. super super fast and the only thing you

1:00:01

can never get back is time. So that's

1:00:04

such a gift. He gave you a gift by leaving, he

1:00:06

gave you a gift and then now you have the time to

1:00:08

find your person and he's not wasting it. It's

1:00:11

just so it's so awful when you have these

1:00:13

men who they're like, I'll give you a baby next

1:00:15

year. I'll give you a baby next year. I'm just not ready now.

1:00:18

If he's not giving you like my husband,

1:00:20

we were at dinner and he's like, I

1:00:22

want you to give me another baby. And

1:00:24

I was like, that is the most romantic

1:00:25

thing anyone has ever

1:00:28

done.

1:00:28

Like you, that's what you want. If you want kids,

1:00:30

you want the man to be like saying, yes, I

1:00:32

want you to give me another baby. You don't

1:00:34

want to say, well, maybe next year. I'm just not, it's

1:00:36

not the right time. It's never the right time.

1:00:40

There's always something you always have something

1:00:42

you're trying to build or heal or fix or

1:00:44

just, it's almost, it's almost done.

1:00:46

Like life's never done. And when it's

1:00:48

done, there's no more of it.

1:00:51

So yeah, so go after the things

1:00:53

that you want.

1:00:54

And one last thought on that is

1:00:56

if you are advertising free,

1:00:59

no strings attached, casual sex, you're

1:01:02

not attracting everybody. You are attracting

1:01:04

the guys who want free, no strings

1:01:06

attached, casual sex. If you want

1:01:08

commitment, you are actually driving away the

1:01:11

people who look for commitment because you're advertising

1:01:13

that they are not for you're not for them and they're not for you.

1:01:16

When you switch and advertise, I

1:01:18

want commitment and I'm just not interested in

1:01:20

anything else. Yeah, you filter out the guys

1:01:23

who are, they're going to run from the table or the women who are going to run

1:01:25

from the table because they, that's what they want,

1:01:27

but you are going to filter in the people

1:01:30

who want commitment. That's when you really start

1:01:32

by being honest. You pull them in, they

1:01:34

will handcuff themselves to you by the end of the day.

1:01:36

So you can't escape like my wife and

1:01:38

I, we use this method. We talked about

1:01:41

everything right up front. We were so clear. We

1:01:43

got engaged at two weeks and we got

1:01:45

married and married at 11 months and we've

1:01:47

been married for 15 years or 15 years.

1:01:50

And then we're on baby number five. Like guys,

1:01:52

this works. If you want a person

1:01:55

who is looking for what you want, you must be clear

1:01:57

from the start about what you want. You don't have to be a jerk

1:01:59

about it.

1:01:59

but advertise for them so

1:02:02

they know that you are for them and they

1:02:04

know that they are for you.

1:02:05

Otherwise, they'll think they aren't and they'll move on.

1:02:08

So how fast do you think people know

1:02:10

if it's their

1:02:11

person? Guys know very, very quick.

1:02:15

The surprising truth is that guys know very, very

1:02:17

quick if a person is their person.

1:02:19

Women usually take a bit longer. Women

1:02:21

take three, four, five, six dates

1:02:24

before they can really lock in if this is

1:02:26

a good match. I say

1:02:28

three or four dates, is where you should start getting

1:02:30

a little more serious and say, hey, what about putting a label on

1:02:32

this? How do you think about this? I say if you

1:02:34

don't use the first year correctly, you're

1:02:37

not going to use anything correctly. It should be one

1:02:39

year to know if you're a good match for marriage

1:02:41

or not. You shouldn't have to go beyond one year

1:02:43

if you do it right.

1:02:44

And does that change with age? Is there a difference

1:02:46

if you're dating, let's say you're 20 years old

1:02:48

versus 35? Sure, sure.

1:02:50

So if you're 35, one

1:02:52

year definitely is enough to know

1:02:55

as long as you guys are doing it right. If you're 20,

1:02:57

you know what, maybe a little bit longer. Maybe you're

1:02:59

still developing what you want. Maybe you're still developing

1:03:01

those ideas. I am not

1:03:04

opposed to young marriage as long as you guys have done

1:03:06

the work to identify who you want to

1:03:08

be, where you want to go. If you are completely

1:03:10

lost in life, it may not be a

1:03:12

great idea if you haven't even mapped out your values yet,

1:03:15

what your beliefs are yet, who you want to

1:03:17

be, the goal that you're trying to build, because you

1:03:19

can't commit to building a life together because you

1:03:21

don't even have a vision for that life. So as

1:03:23

long as you have a unified vision for what

1:03:25

you want life to be and a plan to get there, about

1:03:27

one year is probably enough for you guys

1:03:30

to start figuring out if you're the right match or not. But make

1:03:32

sure you have that vision first.

1:03:34

Well, this has been incredible.

1:03:36

And I know I could keep talking to you forever.

1:03:38

So I'd love to have you back on in the future.

1:03:40

Before we close out, do you

1:03:43

want to tell the listeners how they can support

1:03:45

you, where they can follow you, projects you're working on, and

1:03:47

I'll make sure that it is all linked below.

1:03:49

Oh, I'd be honored. Thank you so much. So my website

1:03:51

is adamlanesmith.com. And lane is

1:03:54

spelled L-A-N-E like a road. Adamlanesmith.com.

1:03:57

There you'll find my attachment bootcamp video course.

1:04:00

My private coaching community my books

1:04:02

all kinds of resources to help you with everything we've talked

1:04:04

about here I'm also on Instagram as at

1:04:07

attachment Adam You're gonna find tons of reels

1:04:09

and carousels on there all kinds of usable

1:04:12

information I am on Twitter now called X

1:04:14

where I am the Prometheus which I've been that

1:04:16

for 13 years I don't know that I'll ever

1:04:18

change that silly name. I'm also on YouTube

1:04:20

where I have over 450 free video guides

1:04:23

where you can Watch my material learn for

1:04:25

me directly drop comments there and all

1:04:27

kinds of good stuff I would love to help anybody

1:04:29

who's ready for help. Please don't hesitate to reach

1:04:31

out

1:04:32

Beautiful and thank you so much again. Thank

1:04:35

you for having

1:04:36

me and that's it for this week's episode of chatting

1:04:38

with Candice But before you take off, please

1:04:40

leave us that five-star review if it's been

1:04:43

a while you can do it more than once This helps feed

1:04:45

the machine. So thank you very much.

1:04:48

Check out the resources below

1:04:50

and

1:04:52

You