0:00

Welcome back to another episode of turning the tables.

0:04

And I am your humble host, Adam Lamb.

0:08

Typically Jim Taylor of benchmark 60 joins us today.

0:12

But I think right about this time, him and his wife must be

0:15

welcoming their very first child. So that's really.

0:21

We do this hashtag lunchbox live stream every week here on Thursday at noon.

0:25

For some reason I put in 1205 start time.

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So I apologize for that. And I'm happy to announce that turning the table is now officially a podcast and it's

0:35

available on iTunes, Spotify in everywhere that you get your podcasts on the show.

0:41

We talk about staff centric solutions to restaurant operat.

0:46

And it's a short show, 30 minutes.

0:48

It's meant to give you a big punch in the mouth as something to think

0:51

about and hopefully take back into your operation and test because we're

0:55

all about making these solutions live.

0:58

We don't wanna just talk about 'em. We wanna make 'em happen in our industry.

1:01

And today I'm very happy to welcome to the show.

1:04

Chef Jonathan Ruby. Who's also a, a solutions expert with benchmark 60

1:11

morning, Jonathan, how are you? Hey Adam.

1:13

Thanks for having. Wanted to make sure that before we go any further, I mentioned that this show

1:19

as always is sponsored by benchmark 60.

1:21

Jonathan is one of our solutions experts, partners with benchmark 60.

1:26

And he brings a wealth of experience, not only as a chef, but also as a

1:31

restaurant tour operations manager. And my Thomas is excited because.

1:36

She can see us and Jonathan, let me just start off and ask for the folks

1:43

in the audience who perhaps don't know you as well as they should.

1:47

Can you give us kind of a little thumbnail sketch of your background

1:49

and some of your early influences? Yeah, sure.

1:53

I like I'm, I'm fortunate. I grew up with restaurant business a little bit.

1:56

My grandparents had a couple places when I was, when I was growing up, but they

1:59

had a pizza place and it was kind of like park pizza place, park, convenience store.

2:03

And then they also had a seafood restaurant having been from Nova Scotia.

2:06

So, you know, as before I was even. Probably legally allowed to work.

2:10

You know, when I was like 10 to 12, I was Boston tables and washing

2:13

dishes and helping them with prep. So I kind of began my admiration for the restaurant business, you know,

2:18

having gotten to see the, the culture, especially the culture in the kitchen.

2:21

And they're all, you know, a little bit like pirate back there.

2:24

And I really did and kind of solidified my, my, my passion for that.

2:29

It just like turned out I loved cooking. So I, at that point, you know, I did work experience, got jobs.

2:34

In restaurants when I was in high school. And then at that point I went on to the culinary Institute, Canada and

2:39

prince over island here in Canada. And that was just a really, that was a great experience.

2:42

You know, the first year was, it was fantastic.

2:44

It was really like, kind of edit the curve, having had that

2:47

past restaurant experience. And so it really did like.

2:50

It gave me a little bit of an edge. That's kinda like what I teach a lot of the people, if that school really,

2:54

I got to really maximize my education with my past restaurant experience

2:58

because when everybody was still learning to bring law, their first onion, you

3:02

know, I hammered through that and then blown a pig set kind of thing.

3:04

So. From there. You know, I, I joined the junior chef's association of Canada.

3:08

My became an alumni representative for our school.

3:11

I met Michael Smith. Who's like a, kind of a local Canadian celebrity chef used

3:16

to chef at large chef at home. I helped him launch at the very best of chef at home, his cookbook him as well

3:21

as I helped him at the athletes village for the 2010 Olympics Whistler, which was

3:26

a really great opportunity from there. I kind of just went on to work at.

3:30

A few Michelin star restaurants, like notably what bean in, in Manhattan,

3:33

which kind of pigeonholed me as that poisoner for a little pitch.

3:36

But I, I was happy to do it a bit. Love seafood.

3:39

And I, you know, I moved around from island island.

3:41

I lived in the Caribbean for a little bit in St marks.

3:43

And then, you know, I lived in Victoria, like beautiful Vancouver

3:46

island here in, in Canada. Working at some I am resorts and stuff.

3:51

And then also, you know, I did some cool TRO.

3:53

Trying to, you know, test the waters at different Michelin for restaurants

3:56

and really like kind of my pursuit to, of that like ingredient, knowledge

4:00

and technique, like, you know, HKA and glee was one of those places that

4:04

really was, it kind of transformed my idea, my approach to food and you

4:09

know, my obsession with bread with that amazing bread cart they have there.

4:11

So yeah, just little snapshot and throw my life.

4:14

I ended up here in Edmonton, Alberta. I actually came here to get shoulder surgery.

4:18

Next thing you. I'm a restaurant consultant.

4:20

So , I it's been great. I, I did transition my career at one point, you know, I had a, I had a

4:26

daughter and I, I realized that like, you know, spending time with her

4:30

and spending time with family was. Was just as equally, it became just as equally as important as my career and

4:36

my career was kind of, you know, at the forefront of everything at the beginning.

4:38

So I, and at that point I had started meeting some corporate executives for

4:42

progressional groups and got into food development and kind of big picture

4:46

thinking when it comes to the restaurant business, which then obviously you had

4:49

me question a lot of the things that we were doing and, you know, and that,

4:53

that's what segued me into the, the consulting business or working with

4:56

benchmark 60 is that I just, the hope is to build a best for better restaurant.

5:01

And congratulations on the birth of your daughter.

5:03

How old is she now? She's sick. She's going on grade two.

5:06

She's turning seven in October, but yeah, so it's been a little while ILA.

5:10

Yeah. And previous to the show, we were talking a little bit and we thought

5:14

we might discuss the demise of the toxic culinary culture, or as we're

5:19

planning it in her crazy little ways.

5:21

Do you remember in your career being kind of victimized by a toxic war culture?

5:27

I know Canada is a much soft, sweeter place in a lot of ways.

5:30

I'm married to a Canadian. So it's constant conversation about, you know, how different the cultures are

5:36

between the United States and Canada. But I'm just curious if you could kinda reflect on culture within the

5:42

back of the house environment, that didn't necessarily seem so supportive.

5:47

Yeah. Oh, I mean the restaurant industry is, is not primarily dominated Canadians.

5:52

So I think it's like, it's a pretty good mix of, you know, different cultures

5:55

and different backgrounds when it comes to how we approach culture in business.

5:58

And so I, I definitely I've experienced it, you know, it's that kind of that

6:02

old adage where it's, you know, I, back in my day or like I, when I

6:06

was coming up as a chef, you know, they weren't that nice to us, which.

6:09

Which was true. Like, I I've seen a mirror of things.

6:12

People were still throwing stuff around. This was kind of the, the heyday of Gordon Ramsey, really, where that was

6:18

the culture, like chefs were, they were hardass and they had a hard line and it

6:22

was say, yes, Shep and do it and, you know, show up if you're not 15 minutes

6:25

early or late, some, some of it's not bad.

6:27

Some of it's, you know, it was character building, but I definitely

6:30

experienced it, you know, like. I didn't even know what the word meant.

6:34

I was called Mamoa for the first, like who I was a teenager and I didn't even know

6:38

what it, I didn't even know what it meant. That's what they called me in the kitchen, but it, they were

6:42

calling me asshole the whole time. So I, I, yeah, it's, it's, it's unfortunate.

6:46

I, it was just all that I ever knew at at the time, but I was coming up.

6:49

It's definitely been a significant shift, right.

6:52

Because the, the workforce not willing to put up with that kind of stuff

6:56

and the way that we kinda suffered. What do you, where do you think we draw the line between say

7:02

character building and abuse?

7:06

Well, just there is no, there is no like line there's it's

7:10

just one or the other I? Yeah, like it's it's it's not okay.

7:15

It's I don't, I didn't even really understand why it was okay.

7:18

Or where that stem from.

7:20

It came from, you know, just stress, whether it was like money

7:25

or trying to boost cover count. Likely, it was just a bunch of people who had their own, you know, struggles

7:30

or had gone through their own level of abuse and just, it was just the way

7:34

that, you know, give on to others the same way that they had received it.

7:38

So, yeah, like there it is a pretty it's it's I think it's clearly

7:44

define line it's it was, it was abuse and it, and it is, and I think.

7:49

For some reason it was, it was just, it like kind of, I don't know, accepted as

7:54

part of the industry, but I'm happy to say that it's, it's not like that anymore.

7:59

Right. And I know things have been changing for a while.

8:02

And also there was, you know, they say that changing culture

8:05

within an organization takes about a minimum of seven years.

8:09

And the industry is a big old battleship and nobody ever

8:13

turns the battleship on a dime. Is there anything that you can point to in your career?

8:17

When you decided that you wanted to make the industry a better place.

8:21

And if you can just help me define what better means.

8:26

Yeah. Okay. So what, what I was, I was just as equally as subject to that punitive sort

8:32

of nature that I, I grew up in, right? Like that's what I was taught to do.

8:36

Like we, you say yes, chef and do it, and it doesn't matter what my demeanor was,

8:39

or it was all about, you know, food focus.

8:41

And I realized as well too, though, that I wasn't, I personally wasn't getting

8:46

what I wanted out of the business. Like I wasn.

8:48

You know, I didn't have the worklife balance one. I was saying, I was saying no to all the family events and the wedding.

8:53

He said, oh, I'd stop. And I was working 80 hour work weeks and I was tired and I was grumpy.

8:57

You know, I, I didn't like people that didn't do well at their jobs.

9:01

Like it was just a peanut nature. And then all of a sudden I realized that all the things that were affecting me

9:06

in my life and the things that I didn't necessarily like about our industry

9:11

was something that I could change. Like I could offer that to.

9:14

The teams that worked for me, you know, I've you, and you

9:18

likely heard it as well before. I didn't necessarily want my daughter to join the restaurant industry.

9:23

Like I, I, I I'd met other guys.

9:25

Like I was a guy I recently hired whose dad is a chef.

9:28

He's a pretty notable chef here in this area. And I asked them, I'm like, Hey, do you wanna become a chef?

9:31

Like your dad and said, well, my dad has one rule to be whatever

9:34

I want, except for a chef. . And it's, it's one of those moments where I was just like,

9:40

this isn't this isn't right. Something that I'm so passionate about.

9:43

So. Fiercely in love with, I didn't want that for my daughter, which I, I

9:48

was a bit of a disconnect for me. And I said, why does it way?

9:51

And that was really that pivotal moment for me was, wanted the world

9:54

for, and why can't this be right.

9:57

It's almost limit. And to

10:04

industry like, like in real terms, what does that mean?

10:09

Well, I, I think like, you know, Even just looking statistically at, in what, for

10:16

Canada, you know, the, the vacancy, the job vacancy in our industry is about 14%.

10:21

But if you also look like, you know, wages are up, but they're only up

10:24

about they're up about 12%, which for all us stock restaurant operators,

10:27

that's, that's significant increase.

10:29

But if you look at the stats overall, as, as a business, we're

10:34

the lowest paying industry, one of the lowest paying industries.

10:37

Out there. Like it's, it's just not attractive anymore.

10:39

And I, that's where I wanted, I wanted to try to see if we can, we're not

10:44

getting not, everybody's getting the same level of education, you know,

10:47

it's not, there's not always, you know, not every position is transferable

10:51

to different restaurant groups. I think there's a little bit of disorganization with our industry.

10:55

And I think that if we work together or be more of these podcasts, reach

10:59

out and, and, and speak more as a community, I think we, we have an

11:03

opportunity to make that shift for us. I agree.

11:06

I think we're completely aligned in that you're now working for benchmark 60 and

11:10

just jump off, you know, Jemiah Thomas, just put in a thing that said, you

11:15

know, we make up most of the co economy.

11:17

I think the restaurant industry still is the number one employer and the world.

11:21

So it's kind of weird that the largest single employer or industry

11:26

in the world does such a poor. At at equity, you know, whether that's equity and pay equity and position.

11:32

I often remind folks that my very first executive chef was a woman.

11:36

My very first sous chef was a woman. So I've had a great deal of appreciation for what women have had to deal with

11:43

in the industry, people of color. For those of you who don't know I'm of mixed race, my mother's Cuban and my

11:48

dad's was American or American born. Although I don't necessarily look like it so I can pass on the

11:54

privilege of my color, but it's still.

11:57

You know, one of these things where I've, you know, been the butt of many jokes

12:01

all the way back to, you know, elementary school and, and back into the profession.

12:06

But I would often hear, you know, really shitty comments by other people,

12:11

you know, as they're confiding in me, not necessarily them realizing

12:15

that, you know, I have this respect for the women in the, in the

12:19

industry as well as people of color. And for a long time, I would just kind of sit there and go, ha yeah.

12:24

Okay. And not really stand up and it took me losing my not losing, but taking

12:31

a job as an executive sous chef, a huge working under a very good

12:35

friend of mine who needed some help in this particular organization.

12:38

I hadn't been in a sous chef for, you know, 20 HES, but not to have that

12:43

mantle of responsibility as being the executive chef, freed me up to do stuff

12:46

like run around and have a thousand conversations a day with people.

12:50

So very often the chef would come in and he'd lay down the law.

12:53

And then I would, you know, walk back to these departments and

12:56

kind of smooth everything over.

12:58

And that's when I realized that communication.

13:03

Job, one of our particular positions and it becomes difficult when you're

13:08

trying to communicate the same thing to maybe people of, you know, certainly

13:11

two different sexes or now three or four different sexual orientations all with

13:17

their own history, all with their own family, because it used to be that all

13:20

we did was hire a pair of hands, you know, or a position on the schedule.

13:24

Okay. I need to grow cook for Saturday. Who am I gonna put in there?

13:26

And I think now it's turning towards no, we hire.

13:32

Full functional human beings. And we have to deal with them at that particular way, because to not be aware of

13:39

what's going on in their personal lives, sets us up to be kind of deaf or tone deaf

13:44

to same thing that affects us, you know?

13:48

So how so it being part of benchmark 60, and I guess I just wanted to

13:54

say that out loud, but being part of benchmark 60, we're bringing

13:58

a particular different type of. Changing the perspective of a lot of operators, chefs, managers,

14:06

DMS, so that they start looking at their staff as assets, rather

14:11

than as debits to the bottom line.

14:14

And as someone who is working with this productivity metrics, what have

14:20

you seen insofar as the way that that starts to shape an operator's view?

14:27

And how he, he or she starts treating their staff differently.

14:30

Well, I mean, I know that's a big loaded question.

14:34

Do that yeah, yeah. Yeah. Where do I begin?

14:37

I , you know, the labor model hasn't really changed much.

14:42

Like it, it really hasn't, it's been decades of, of the same hundred years,

14:49

the same restaurant really model.

14:51

And, you know, it started with the ADE system, but like, Where is the,

14:56

where, where is the innovation then? And, you know, like we, we are Fort bothers lo in the culinary

15:02

world, like Scopia, you know, creating our brigade system.

15:05

And there was a reason that they did that, and it was trying to create a

15:07

better restaurant environment that everybody knew who was doing what by when.

15:11

Right. It was the, the big, the first action plan.

15:14

And I think we're overdue.

15:16

We're well overdue to create a, a new action plan, a new who does

15:21

what by when in restaurant business. And I think. Our, the holistic approach at looking at the people, the number

15:28

one commodity in your business, focusing on them and, and their,

15:31

their happiness is just gonna attract a better, a better restaurant world.

15:36

Like we even selfishly, like let's create a better restaurant worlds.

15:39

We have better restaurants to go to, you know, since post pandemic,

15:44

you know, it's the kind of run joke. Like everything's just gotten a little bit worse, you know, like, and it's.

15:50

Everybody's a little bit shorts staffed. Everybody's a little tired.

15:52

Everybody's stressed out. Everybody's worried about money and inflation, all these things.

15:56

And so the key is really just like remembering that it's,

15:59

it's not a grilled hook. It's a person, it's the, it's the people that you work with and, and

16:03

you ask them what they want and find out how to get it and, and just make

16:07

a better, better space at environment somewhere that's attractive to work.

16:11

And I think it's, it's less of like, we're not doing them a favor by coming,

16:14

getting them to come work for us. It's the other way around.

16:17

Right. And we. Or else we don't make profit, we don't have the business.

16:21

And, and so with benchmark 60, taking a holistic approach by looking at

16:26

it a little bit differently, we think about like focusing on work

16:28

and, and really focusing on the people also not only make us as, as

16:33

profitable as we always have been, but create a better work environment.

16:35

And, and then, you know what, everybody crying, labor shortage,

16:39

you don't have to cry labor shortage. You get to keep the people that you have.

16:42

And then they're out there telling everybody the great of

16:44

a workspace they've got and then that'll just track more talent.

16:47

And then everybody. I I know benchmark sixties, famous tagline is retention is the new cool.

16:54

And for those who are maybe not necessarily familiar with what that

17:00

actually means is that retention is actually focusing on retention is

17:05

step one in creating a great workplace culture and community, but it also

17:12

becomes a point of attraction for those out on the street that are actually

17:15

looking for a place to be treated well.

17:19

Everybody knows what happened during that pandemic. We lost millions and millions of jobs.

17:23

Some folks went to other industries, some folks did not come back, but

17:28

you know, the burnt chef project did a survey, not too long ago that said

17:31

that, you know, 64% of everybody left the industry planned on coming

17:36

back within the next 12 to 18 months.

17:40

So these are people who obviously love the industry, love what they

17:43

do, but they just couldn't put up with a bullshit any much, any longer.

17:48

First off. I think we gotta say a big shout out, thank you to them and for standing for

17:53

what they believed in, because that has woken up a whole lot of people who perhaps

17:57

were again, kind of tone, deaf to Ze or the demands of the associates when they're

18:04

like, you know, things have to get better. Well, that's why I love calling, you know, COVID the great reset, you know,

18:10

it, wasn't the great resignation. It's the great reset.

18:12

And it's our respons. If we're wary enough to actually do something about it.

18:17

That's what so charged me up about my first conversations with a gym and this

18:23

productivity metrics, because I realized that this was kind of the back door to

18:28

showing operators a number one that you're not, you don't have to give up profit.

18:33

You don't have to give up margins, but actually this is an opportunity

18:37

for you to realize money. That's just being left on the.

18:41

Right that you can capture and then reinvest in your people.

18:46

So I think that that's probably one of the most revolutionary things that

18:50

I'd heard in a long time and realize that a lot of the conversation around

18:54

community culture and all that kind of stuff actually begins with management who

18:58

are invested in really looking at their staff, managing their workload better.

19:04

And then communicating that to the staff in such a way that they get it.

19:06

Holy crap, man, this, you know, this company really care.

19:10

Because there are very few metrics for like, oh yeah, we really care about you.

19:16

Oh yeah, sure. And now I'm just gonna have to put my head down and just keep crunching again.

19:20

So, because that's the only way to get through it. And I know that there are some folks out there in the industry who

19:26

are gonna listen to this and think it's all pie in the sky, right?

19:30

Oh, really? You're gonna give servers benefits, you know, shit like this.

19:34

Yes. You. You absolutely can, if you can find that cash, why wouldn't you do that?

19:41

Like what would be in your mind, an objection from an operator who wouldn't

19:46

want to take care of their people better? Yeah, the, you know, I think where some of it comes from is that like our own

19:52

past experience, you know, like when I was a wine cook, I didn't get benefits.

19:55

I made, you know, $10 an hour at, you know, I worked ridiculous hours

20:00

and I didn't get paid overtime. And I think some of that comes some of the decision making from now the, the

20:07

now restaurant owners is some of that comes from that past shared experience.

20:10

You know, like why, why shouldn't this person have to fight to

20:13

the top the same way I did. And, and it, it just, it's, it's just broken really.

20:18

Like it's, it's not. It's not, that's not the way that the, our new workforce is going.

20:24

They're not gonna accept those things the same way that we

20:26

did and unfortunately did. Right.

20:28

And we just need to come up with new ways to make them hap make 'em happy really.

20:33

And in the end, it's just, there's, it's one simple sentence.

20:36

It's cheaper to keep the people up. Ah, do you know what the average is in Canada right now for having to to.

20:48

Higher and train staff average.

20:52

Do you know the average cost kinda thing? Yeah.

20:54

Yeah. It's, I would say like anywhere from 1200 to $2,000 an employee, and then as, as

21:00

an investment to get 'em in train them, you know, depending on the operation

21:04

that could be, you know, lesser, lesser, depending on also a position as well.

21:09

But it's, it's always a significant, it's a risk.

21:12

Like you're now all of a sudden hiring somebody, you don't.

21:15

And, and you have to try to sauce 'em out and figure them out and

21:18

find out what makes them tick. And, you know, although like there's some easy ways or easier ways to do

21:23

that now, basically asking them what they want, but I it's, you know,

21:26

it's still, it's, it's an investment to hire and train more people.

21:29

And I, that revolving door, you're just, you know, it's,

21:31

it's exponential at that point. So it's, it's always the, the most successful restaurant groups

21:36

that I've ever with or you know, I've had the pleasure of like

21:40

chatting with, is that they're. Their pockets are deep with people.

21:44

You know, I I've met vice presidents that serve as dishwashers, and those are the

21:48

companies that typically are the most successful, at least in my experience, you

21:51

know, they're the ones that are constantly have a, have a rotating door are the

21:55

ones that are always are struggling. And they're the ones typically have the questions as how do we keep our

22:00

people or how do we find good people? And I.

22:03

Often the answer is you already have them.

22:05

You just need to invest in them. Can you, can you talk quickly?

22:09

And, and I know that we're getting short on time, but I don't, I

22:12

don't wanna rush you because I think this is really important. You mentioned earlier in our conversation that the industry itself is a little

22:18

bit fractured and wonky on, like, how do you build skill that actually

22:23

transfer to, to other markets?

22:26

Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah.

22:28

Well, I. Our our industry.

22:32

You can have a director of operations, you know, for us, you know, a small two

22:36

unit business, and then you can have director operations for a 30 unit business

22:41

or director of operations for a hotel. Although they all fall within the hospitality industry.

22:45

That's kind of what I was alluding to is that their skill, their education, their

22:49

background, their ability to transfer those skills to another even hospitality.

22:54

Is, I think there's like, there's too much of a gap.

22:57

It's not enough of a standard there's, you know, one operating

23:00

system, they become an expert on. So they're good at reading the data and understanding it and being

23:04

able to communicate that with their teams, once you transfer that.

23:08

And, you know, I went through a little bit as myself even it's that,

23:11

you know, once you move into a new group, a new culture, a new mission

23:15

statement and, and the new operating systems and new appeal or SOPs and all

23:20

that, it's, there's a learning curve.

23:22

That's steep, like extremely. And I think we should be doing, we should be focusing more on the education

23:28

of the, of those entry level partners. You know, you know, we bring into our business and, and, and spend

23:33

the same level of investment. They're they're also a higher level of pay.

23:37

They're expecting benefits. They're expecting what all the other industries are.

23:40

And, you know, if you look at other, you know, careers that you

23:43

can take, you have to spend four years in university to do it.

23:46

And, and what we're, what I would think is that just there needs to

23:49

be more education in our business. There needs to be more standardization across like what these I've I've

23:55

hired people who are general managers, chefs, and directors of operations.

24:00

And. It's, they're not always the same.

24:02

It's not it's and which isn't a bad thing. And like new sets of eyes, new ideas is great.

24:07

Sure. But it's like, will they be able to do the job?

24:09

And that's the disconnect. And I think, you know, the restaurant industry to kind of comment on,

24:14

you know, transferable skills into maybe different businesses.

24:18

It, it, it, I think. Fresh operators typically are probably some of the best operators in any

24:24

business, because maybe we we've been grown to be these Jackal trades.

24:28

You know, like there's not like there's not on office spaces where

24:30

you gotta come in and fix a dishwasher or, or fix the plumbing or put out

24:34

a fire or deal with staff shortages. You know, it's, I think our abilities are skill sets are so

24:39

broad that it, it, it would be. I think if we continue to invest in education and ization of our industry,

24:44

then we, we will be able to open up more and more doors for everyone.

24:48

And to you. That education piece.

24:51

Are you also referring to training?

24:55

Like there's, there's one thing about education, you know, outside

24:58

of the industry or prior to coming in the industry, but are we doing

25:02

enough, you know, at the unit level to train the people that we have.

25:06

I mean, you talked about this retention, you know, taking care of your good people.

25:10

At what point does training become an it's the, the most imperative

25:14

thing that, yeah, like we should be EV like often, you know, as operator.

25:20

We can't see the forest for the trees. We're in the thing that works always in the weeds really and,

25:25

and you're always busy and you always have something better to do.

25:28

And I think if we're not trying to train ourselves outta those things,

25:30

then we're not gonna grow our community. We're not gonna grow a restaurant or a business.

25:33

Like it's, that's what I teach everyone is that don't do anything yourself that

25:37

you can't teach and, and take every moment and every opportunity to teach it.

25:42

Also, they want, they wanna wear, they want, want advancement and.

25:47

You're gonna just kill two birds, one stone there.

25:50

That's kind of going against the grain of the pride of somebody who's come

25:56

up through the ranks, gotten their jacket with the embroidery on it.

26:01

Now I'm the executive chef. Now I'm the apex predator in the, in the, in the fish tank.

26:06

There are a lot of guys and gals out there that wouldn't necessarily

26:12

train their people with all their special skills because they think it.

26:16

Job security fear.

26:19

Yeah. Which is a shame because I I've always felt that my job as the executive

26:24

chef was to train myself out of a job. Yeah.

26:28

Well, I mean, it's not too much job security, but you know, how else, how

26:32

else are the people that I work with gonna be able to have the skills to go

26:35

on, to become chefs in their own rights. Well, I mean, unless you're happy, just be in like having

26:42

to do everything all the time. You know, there's, there's a part of it where I think for most leaders,

26:50

there's a turning point in your career where you realize that you can't

26:53

do it all, you can't do everything and you're eventually gonna burn.

26:57

And you're also gonna get more out of the people that work with you

27:01

than, than you can undo yourself.

27:03

And I, you know, it.

27:07

It's just not an option they, that they wanna learn.

27:10

And, and I encourage everybody to ask why, and you should be trying

27:14

to work yourself out of a job. That's that's also the only way that you're gonna get yourself ahead.

27:18

You have an army of people, all stepping the same direction, as

27:21

you all believe in the same mission statement, all fighting the same

27:23

battle for like, or you end with you. That's that's gonna get you further ahead in your career than you'll be by doing it.

27:30

So, what I'm hearing you say is it doesn't necessarily always have to back

27:34

or hip or knee surgery or the birth of a child for you to smarten up and

27:38

realize that there are better things to do with your time than being, you

27:42

know, tied to the tied to the stove. A hundred percent.

27:45

Yeah. Jonathan, we have just a second left and if you had just one little.

27:50

For our operators who are gonna go back, you know, into their

27:54

restaurants or their kitchens. What's a little piece of wisdom that you can leave them with that maybe will

27:58

cause them to change their perspective.

28:00

I think, I think the biggest, one of our biggest obstacles in this

28:05

business is we're afraid of what our, our team members are gonna say.

28:08

I think what I, what I often coach operators is that just

28:11

ask them what they want. It's simple. Just go to them, ask them what they're looking.

28:16

Ask to look like about their, about where they work and what it is

28:19

that they wanted, where they were. I think we're just, we're typically just too afraid of what the answer's

28:23

gonna be and not knowing how to do that. And I think it's, you know, the more we have these conversations and the more

28:28

that we you know, spend our outreach and connect with more people, the better

28:32

we are in answering those questions. And the less fearful we have to be about asking though, I think

28:37

that's an excellent place to stop. And if someone wants to learn more about you and connect

28:42

with you, how do they do that? Jonathan? For sure.

28:45

Yeah. So you can find me on LinkedIn.

28:47

I'm also part of the benchmark 60 group. So you can reach me at [email protected] or

28:52

Jonathan Ruby LinkedIn there love to connect sounds perfect, man.

28:57

Jonathan, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of turning the table.

29:00

And for those of you who are still with us next week, we're gonna have

29:05

leadership development coach and mentor. Alison Ann on as our guest.

29:09

And I think Jim Taylor may or may not be back.

29:11

I mean, he, if he's smart, you know, he'll stay home because we at benchmark 60.

29:17

Yes. We also recognize that the new dads get to have parental leave.

29:24

we're on the cutting edge. Thanks very much folks.

29:26

We really appreciate you joining us, please like share and comment

29:31

and we'll answer every single one. Thank you very much until next week.

29:37

Thanks for joining us on this episode of turning the table with

29:40

me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.

29:42

This episode was sponsored by benchmark 60 we're on a mission to change

29:46

the food and beverage industry by focusing on staff, mental health and

29:49

wellbeing by forecasting and actively managing workload productivity.

29:54

Over 200 restaurants and food and beverage operations have discovered

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for themselves how to increased staff retention and become a preferred employer

30:02

in their market by using our proprietary.

30:05

If you'd like to have an operational culture that everybody wants to work

30:08

for, then check out benchmark 60 on the [email protected].

30:14

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30:17

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30:20

Turning the table is a production of realignment media.