0:00

Adam Lamb: I got in this conversation with this person. We kind of bumped into one another in LinkedIn as, as want to do.

0:05

And he was a chef and he wanted to pivot towards coaching.

0:10

And so he was asking me about some of the stuff that I do and he's like, yeah,

0:15

I didn't even know this was a thing. Chefs coaching other chefs.

0:19

And I said, well, it hasn't been, but it will be.

0:23

Yeah. Jim Taylor: Well, and and we've been, you and I have been working together on a few

0:28

different things for about a year now. And, and you know, this comes up a lot.

0:31

It's like, what is a, a career coach for chefs?

0:34

Like what, like, I mean, in the title we've said, you know, what is that?

0:37

So there's, what is that discussion Adam Lamb: today about that, I think, yeah.

0:40

And and just to decide, I actually booked a client the other day and part of the

0:46

conversation started with, He had gone, you know, he's in the culinary industry.

0:50

He went on looking for career coaches online, and he kept coming across

0:56

kind of similar focuses kind of mainstream in industry career coaches.

1:01

And he thought to himself, yeah, I don't even know if these

1:04

guys are gonna relate to me. Yeah, well, like, can, can they even relate to, to the

1:11

experience that that I've had?

1:14

And I thought that was an interesting. An interesting viewpoint, not, not one that I previously thought about, but I

1:22

think this will give us an opportunity to not only talk about what career

1:26

coaching is in general, but how I actually specifically bring that to the culinary

1:32

industry and why that might be a little bit more necessary now than it was before.

1:37

So, I wanna appreciate you for one moment just because it's our one year

1:42

anniversary, and I, I just wanted to let you know that there's, there's

1:46

only 1% of, or some crazy statistic, it's either 1% or 10% of all podcasters

1:53

who actually make it a full year. So I just wanted to say thank you because it's been a really

1:57

enjoyable experience with you and I, I certainly have learned a lot.

2:01

Jim Taylor: Likewise. Happy anniversary. Adam Lamb: Happy anniversary.

2:05

So we'll get to, Culinary Career coach.

2:08

What's that? Right after these messages.

2:12

Welcome to Turning the Table, the Most Progressive Weekly podcast for

2:15

today's food and beverage industry, featuring staff centric operating

2:18

solutions for restaurants in the hashtag new hospitality culture.

2:22

Join Jim Taylor of Benchmark 60 and to Adam Lamb as they turn the

2:26

tables on the prevailing operating assumptions of running a restaurant in

2:29

favor of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.

2:33

Thanks for joining us and now, Onto the show.

2:37

This episode is made possible by e vocalize.

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2:58

vocalize, and I guess you know.

3:03

Maybe the first question would be, Jim, like why does anybody need a career coach?

3:09

Jim Taylor: Well, I think we should spin that around and ask you, I

3:12

mean, you're a big part of the conversation today is about really

3:16

like, let's dig into, you know, why people can benefit from some support.

3:22

You know, how, a little bit about your strategy on this and

3:25

kind of the results mechanism. But you know, one of the things that I was thinking about leading into this

3:29

conversation is that, I had a really big wake up call when I left the sort

3:34

of operations world of restaurants.

3:36

Mm-hmm. Because I thought, this is what the whole industry's like.

3:41

You know, everything, every restaurant is the same.

3:45

We all have the same issues or challenges or whatever it might be.

3:50

And it wasn't until I started working with, you know, multiple restaurants

3:54

all over the world, basically. I was like, Everybody has a different challenge going on.

4:00

Sure. There's the big picture ones that are the same, but everybody's got unique

4:03

market challenges and you know, these things that you have to try to work

4:07

through and, and, you know, maybe you can take this and, and run with it in

4:11

a second, but one of the things that I've always found interesting about, I.

4:14

Your career path. And now what you do is you've got so much experience in so many

4:18

markets, in so many environments, in so many types of businesses.

4:22

You know, there's, there's an insane amount of knowledge there.

4:25

So, I don't know, maybe you could kind of take that and

4:27

just like, what's the basis of

4:29

Adam Lamb: this whole thing? Yeah, I, I, and thank you for pointing that out.

4:32

'cause sometimes sometimes it's easy to forget just how much we know or.

4:40

Midway through my career I was asked to do a quorum on the culinary program

4:46

for the Art Institute, the, the Chain of Art Institutes of America.

4:50

Mm-hmm. And their subprogram of culinary arts.

4:52

And there were about me and about 10 other chefs and other facilitators in the room.

4:57

And the facilitator started by asking like, what are the, what are the

5:03

core competencies that you know, That come in real handy with business.

5:07

And what do you think our students should be leaving the program with?

5:09

Mm-hmm. And in space of about 50 minutes, she had these yellow stickies all over this

5:14

wall of stuff that, that we kind of have gained knowledge in and probably not

5:21

given enough credit for even to ourselves.

5:24

I looked at that wall and I said, wow, like that is, that's a lot.

5:28

And you know, 15 years old I started washing dishes at the local restaurant.

5:34

Yeah, the only reason I I started there is because that's where

5:37

my dad used to like to hang out. He was a college professor, so on his breaks, he'd go down there and he'd kind

5:41

of laugh and joke with the waitresses and so I think it was kind of a, a

5:46

way in which, you know, I could be a little bit closer to my father, and

5:48

not that we were estranged, but you know, I, I kind of wanted to see him,

5:51

what he was like outside of the family.

5:53

Yeah. It turns out he is a pretty charming person and everybody

5:56

seemed to enjoy talking to him. And one Friday night I was walking past the, the kitchen door with a

6:01

whole bunch of plates in my arms that had just got done washing and.

6:05

There were two cooks that worked there, both female.

6:08

One was a, a larger woman, her name was Artelia White.

6:11

She had a gold tooth in the front of her mouth and she was always

6:14

smiling and she would work the pass. And back then it was like the stainless steel wheel that used

6:18

to spin in the window where people would put the tickets up.

6:20

Mm-hmm. And so she worked that area and then there was a very thin, severe

6:24

woman that worked next to her and. One, as I said, one Friday night, I was walking past the

6:29

kitchen and it was in full throw.

6:31

Man. They were, they were really working hard, but yet they had this, the only way I

6:37

could describe it is this dance that they were doing between one another,

6:39

almost like a articulated symphony of.

6:46

Of steam and pans banging, and yet they didn't say anything to one another.

6:51

They knew each other's moves so well. And that just kind of mesmerized me and I said, I, I don't know what the

6:56

hell that is, but I wanna get me some. So I offer.

6:59

And what market was that at? That was that was right outside of Chicago, on the Indiana side.

7:03

So I lived in the Chicago land region is how they refer to it.

7:08

Mm-hmm. And that could stretch as far as you know, almost to Wisconsin and

7:15

Michigan, both kind of like at the bottom of Lake lake Michigan.

7:18

Mm-hmm. And so I recognized that if I wanted to go further in my career,

7:22

I would need to like, kind of get to downtown Chicago some way, but

7:26

both geographically and skill level.

7:28

Yeah. So very often I put myself in jobs that you know, I talked

7:32

a really good game and to the. To your point, you know, I lied a lot, you know, about what I was capable of doing.

7:38

I went to work at a Greek restaurant and the guy says, can

7:40

you clean te beef tenderloins? And I said, oh, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure.

7:43

And the very first day I'm standing next to this guy kind of watching out of the

7:47

corner of my eye how, how he was doing it. And I wanna tell you, if anybody's ever, you know, peeled silver skin off of beef

7:53

tenderloin, it's, there's an art to it.

7:56

And I'm afraid the first couple tender ones I did, there was more meat in

7:58

the trash than there was on my table. Jim Taylor: You butchered it and not in the right way.

8:06

Adam Lamb: I think one of my saving graces in my career has been and this

8:09

being endlessly curious about things.

8:12

So I always want to kind of try to figure things out. I see something and it's always a fascination for me.

8:17

I love organization. I love systems.

8:21

I never really had a, an idea of a type of cuisine that I wanted to create.

8:25

You know, like Charlie Trotter or, or, or anybody else.

8:29

And the thing that really hooked me early was this idea of community within

8:34

a restaurant and everybody's in that kitchen working so hard that it builds

8:38

relationships really, really quickly. And you really know who to depend on and who not to depend.

8:42

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So by virtue of the fact that I could, that I worked really hard and

8:47

I was dependable, I became kind of someone that people could count on.

8:53

I got my very first executive chef job relatively early in my twenties.

8:59

Completely unprepared by the grace.

9:02

There was a, there was a crusty old guy that was a food and beverage

9:05

director by the name of Ed Jameson, who used to be a purchaser for the

9:09

Black Hawk Restaurant downtown Chicago. Back in the days when they would actually have to go down to the meat

9:14

market and he'd had a, he had a stamp.

9:16

Mm-hmm. And an a pad and would go down the lines of these.

9:20

Sides of beef and he'd be checking 'em out and stamping 'em for the Black Hawk.

9:24

And then he'd spend the rest of the day rest of that afternoon in the

9:28

in the office drinking brandy with the guy who was running the floor.

9:33

So ed took a shine of me.

9:36

And we both kind of came to this conclusion that even though at

9:40

first we distrusted one another we were willing to work together.

9:44

So I'm here by the grace of several mentors that really

9:48

saw my greatness before I did. And who really guided me, you know, they, they allowed me to make a

9:54

certain amount of mistakes that wouldn't necessarily hurt the guest,

9:58

but they allowed me to trip and fall. Because, you know, at that age I was pretty full of myself

10:02

and I needed some humility. Yeah. So I got taken down probably in my career, probably at three or four times where

10:10

you know, to quote Anthony Bourdain, there's nothing like the restaurant

10:12

business to pound some humility into.

10:16

Hundred percent. Jim Taylor: So before you go any further growing, did you play sports?

10:21

Adam Lamb: Yeah, I was a, I was a wrestler in high school.

10:24

As a matter of fact, at at one point my, my only dream was to get a college

10:28

scholarship to Iowa State and wrestle with Dan Grabble, who at that time was the,

10:31

was the United States Gold Medal Champion.

10:34

And then something happened that kind of put me on a different trajectory.

10:38

So this need, this need for community, this need for a place

10:41

to belong really mattered to me. Yeah.

10:44

And then, and Jim Taylor: then you were in at least one, if not multiple bands, right?

10:48

Adam Lamb: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Singing in a rock and roll band.

10:51

As, as a matter of fact at the first hotel I ever ran, we put a band together

10:55

out of people in the kitchen to play the the employee Christmas party.

10:59

And that ended up lasting 15 years.

11:03

And you can, you can find us on Spotify.

11:05

The band's name is Naked Ambition. Thank you very much.

11:08

Jim Taylor: Amazing. Well, and the reason, so the reason I ask those two things, like as

11:11

you're starting to talk about community in the kitchen mm-hmm.

11:14

And, and you know, the mentorship side of things and letting people fail and

11:18

how that whole process goes, which I wanna dig into that in a minute.

11:20

But there's also a, a side of.

11:24

That's competitive, you know, the, the athletics thing, you know, creating

11:28

this competitive nature and there's a camaraderie thing that exists

11:31

there, which I'm sure you sort of found in the music side of things.

11:34

So I always found that your story is really interesting that way.

11:37

But thank you. So, okay, so letting people fail, I mean, there's definitely a

11:42

connection to business, to learning and coaching and mentorship for sure.

11:48

That's one of the things I always found was the hardest.

11:51

As I moved up in management, and I'm hoping you can elaborate on this, one

11:55

of the hardest things that I always found was when do you let someone

12:00

struggle and potentially almost fail so that they can learn through that, and

12:04

when do you step in and bail 'em out? Right.

12:06

Like that's, there's, there's such a fine line there, right?

12:09

So anyway, do, do you have any, take, any Adam Lamb: thoughts on that?

12:12

I, I do and I have a very quick story and and the other point that I wanted to make

12:16

is, you know, you mentioned those kind of physical and emotional attributes.

12:20

The other one I would say is creativity. I. So the reason I ended up in a band is because I found myself being

12:24

creative in, in several different ways.

12:27

Very often people come to the culinary industry and they think, this is my life.

12:30

This is all I ever want to do. And typically my very first piece of co piece of coaching is, yeah, that's cool.

12:37

Now get a hobby. Because in order to have a, to have a creative outlet outside of work is

12:42

a very, very powerful thing because you can get fed emotionally that way.

12:46

And it does have, doesn't have anything to do with what you do

12:48

or how you're making a living. And could very often turn into something lucrative, but as a side hustle.

12:53

Yeah. And so to your point about that whole delegation thing, so it was a

12:59

restaurant in Fort Lauderdale that I was running, it was a seafood restaurant

13:02

on the Intercoastal, did mad numbers. You know, typical nights were seven, 700 to a thousand I think new Year's Eve.

13:09

We did one New Year's Eve, we did 1200 covers and yeah, 1200 covers.

13:13

Yeah. Wow. You start off, you start off with a, a 350 early bird between six and seven 30.

13:19

And that, you know, warms up the room and gets everybody in action.

13:22

And there was a guy who I hired as my sous chef, Greg Barnhill, who was a

13:28

really hot I mean he had had his own restaurant in Fort Collins, Colorado.

13:32

I was looking at his resume, thinking to myself, what the

13:35

hell is he applying here for? And will he show me up?

13:38

But I hired him anyway. And so one of the, I, I knew he could cook fabulously.

13:42

But I didn't necessarily know if he understood systems and expediting.

13:46

And in that particular location, there was one printer that was on

13:49

expo at every station, which were there, there were seven stations.

13:54

Had to listen to the Expeditor. There were no tickets there. So I got really, really good at expediting and I loved it.

14:00

It was, you know, such an adrenaline rush for me.

14:02

Mm-hmm. So I said, okay, okay, Greg, you're gonna do early birds.

14:05

Okay, cool. And I stood, you know, kind of out of his way to the side.

14:11

I watched him, you know, get in the weeds really, really quickly and he was, the

14:18

line was about to crash and burn and that's when I kind of tapped, tapped

14:21

him on the shoulder, said, okay, I want you to step over here and let me, let

14:24

me just get you outta the weeds here so that I can, you know, so that we can

14:28

better understand what the process, which is, you know, you're calling, you're

14:30

calling the long ticket, long cook. Long cook items on all the tickets, and then you're working the first four.

14:36

And at that point, you know, you're pulling plates out of the window

14:39

and building trays and sending the food runners on their way.

14:42

And he got to be very, very, very good. So in that case, I wanted him to like, get in the jam get in the juice

14:50

so that he understood that there was a little bit more to it then.

14:54

What he thought it was. And you know, there might've been a little humility about it, but I would not allow

14:59

the guests to suffer and like, let the line crash, of course, because at that

15:02

point that that exercise is terrible.

15:05

Now, I would, I, I've come away from many, many experiences understanding that

15:10

really the best thing if you're coaching and mentoring, so real quick definition.

15:16

I always thought it was leading people, you know, getting a group of

15:18

people who may speak three different languages from five different company

15:21

countries and communicating in a way that each one of them understand.

15:25

But we're basically going, going over the hill telling them what, what it is to do.

15:29

Coaching and mentoring is completely different in which you are actually

15:34

allowing them this opportunity to know not only attune to their guidance, but

15:39

also to like, let them make their own mistakes in a way that that would be.

15:45

That would drive home the lesson even deeper. The, you know, the famous trope is, you know, telling your kid, don't

15:50

stick your finger in the light socket. Don't stick your finger light sock.

15:52

And then the kid sticks his finger in light socket because very

15:55

often knowledge unearned mm-hmm.

16:00

Represents no value. That's why, you know, a lot of people sign up for a lot of free

16:05

programs and then never do them. Right.

16:07

They'll sit on their computer hard drive. They won't do it because it doesn't represent any, any value to them.

16:11

Hence some spin in the game. You got it right there.

16:14

So it took me a good long time to recognize that within the culinary

16:20

industry, it could not be about the me, it had to be about the we.

16:24

As a matter of fact, Greg was standing next to me as I cooked a staff meal for

16:29

everybody, and I'm kind of standing there.

16:34

I'm proud of myself. Look at what I did. Luckily, everybody's so happy and he turned to me.

16:38

He said if you think that cooking them a meal would would stop them

16:44

from gutting you like a fish. Had they had the chance you're completely wrong.

16:47

I'm like, what? Hmm? Like, because no amount of food is gonna make up for, you know, Basically the abuse

16:55

and the hard, it wasn't abuse, but it was just a very, very hard operation to run.

16:59

So I was hard on all the people. Yeah. And for a long time, a long time.

17:03

For me, it was about the mission as opposed to the people.

17:05

And since that opportunity came to, to make my mistakes and to

17:10

learn, I recognized that it's gotta be about the people before

17:13

the mission because the mm-hmm. If not, then I'm on the line by myself and I can't run seven stations by myself.

17:19

So right by, Jim Taylor: so sorry.

17:23

Adam Lamb: Finish, finish your thought there. No, it was, it was kind of, it's by necessity in order to be

17:27

successful, to invest in your people.

17:31

And, you know, 20 years later, Greg hired me as his sous chef at one

17:35

of the oldest resorts in the United States, the Homestead Omni homestead

17:39

in the western part of Virginia. And I hadn't been a sous chef for 30 years and I was actually

17:45

out of the industry for a while. I was gonna take a different path.

17:49

And just like the old mob thing, you know, I thought I was out

17:51

and then they pulled me back in. So I, I was separate from my partner who, who would go on to be my, become

17:59

my wife, but, She was down in Florida.

18:01

I was, I was in Virginia. I'm like, I don't understand why I'm here.

18:04

Like, I don't, I just don't get it like this, this. And she says, why don't you just be where you're at and have what you have?

18:09

Why don't you just be there completely? I'll come up and visit.

18:12

You can come down and visit, but you know, this whole splitting yourself emotionally

18:15

is not gonna do anything for anybody. And so I took her advice and I recognized that I had this superpower, which was.

18:22

Basically running around this resort, having a thousand conversations a

18:24

day, just checking in with people, developing these deep relationships,

18:27

creating a community within our particular department, which at,

18:31

at peak was 150, 160 associates.

18:35

Some a large portion that made up by J one and, and H two B visas.

18:41

And so there'd be like a click of, or a group coming from

18:44

the Philippines or India. And very often, you know, they would take over as the crew in a particular outlet.

18:50

That meant not only that I had to like ramp myself up culturally in order to

18:55

motivate and teach them, but also to give them an opportunity again to kind

18:59

of like, oh, you think you got this cool, I'm just gonna stand over here

19:02

while, while you try to get this done.

19:05

Mm-hmm. So this idea of building community from within, building really,

19:11

specifically good, communication skills, relationship building has, It's

19:18

been a large portion of my success. And I also recognize it's not anything that's taught in culinary schools.

19:24

And you know, if you're in the insurance business, if you're in the

19:27

insurance business and you're gonna manage a team, you might have six

19:30

months to a year training before you're even allowed to manage that team.

19:35

And because our environment moves so fast and a few other different

19:38

scenarios, very often nobody, nobody gets a chance to learn that,

19:42

that until they're in the mix and.

19:45

Communication skills, leadership skills relationship building skills

19:49

that's not really on the job.

19:52

Training doesn't necessarily make that a good thing.

19:54

Right? Yeah. So hard to build those skills while you're cutting fish.

19:58

Jim Taylor: Totally. And, and there's a big difference between I think management and

20:04

mentorship coaching, right? Yeah. So, you know, I think one of the things that I'm curious about, and maybe you

20:09

could talk a little bit about, is. You know, you obviously had a really interesting and and exciting path

20:15

up through your management career. Mm-hmm.

20:17

Right? And learning some lessons and some skills along the way.

20:20

Yeah. So, but let's fast forward to now.

20:23

Yep. Yep. What's your process with people like, someone comes and you identify

20:28

somebody, or you get in touch with somebody, you get introduced to

20:30

somebody and they're like, listen. I'm in this position.

20:33

I love the industry, I love my career.

20:35

I'm, I need to get, you know, over the, the hump I need to get, I really

20:39

want this next role or this next, you know, bump in compensation or this

20:43

next opportunity and I need some help.

20:46

Like what's, what's the process? How do you interact with that?

20:50

Adam Lamb: Yeah, I built up this framework that I found very helpful

20:54

for myself, and it's lent itself very well to my coaching practice.

20:58

As a matter of fact, I have a hundred percent success rate

21:02

amongst all my coaching clients. Some going back to their place of business or employment with a renewed vigor

21:09

and a grounding that kind of, that is not necessarily passion, but you know,

21:16

it's, it's a great way to be in that.

21:19

It's. You know, passion lends itself to ups and downs, whereas being very well grounded

21:24

and neutral in your position means that stuff can happen around you and you're

21:27

not necessarily getting taken off. So the very first thing is you know, we have a, there's a very detailed initial

21:35

assessment that I have them go through that even though those questions might not

21:40

necessarily be about work, certainly to me, illuminates some opportunity for them.

21:46

And then, and then there's an initial discovery call in which we kind of dig in

21:50

and see where they're at, where they want to go, and what's standing in their way.

21:55

So what's the gap between where they, where they are and where

21:58

they think they should be? Now, I'd love, I, I'd love to be able to say that that's all mechanics,

22:03

but it's not very often there's, there's some emotional components

22:07

and there may be some work that maybe they've been hesitant to do.

22:11

I had a client whose parents owned three restaurants in middle of Ohio.

22:17

She had been tapped on the shoulder to run them.

22:19

Mm-hmm. Her mother did Mo, her mother did most of the work, and sometimes

22:22

that mother-daughter relationship doesn't really work very well.

22:24

And I went there, I went there on a site visit and mind Mindy's okay

22:30

with me telling this story, but. Mindy and I went out for lunch and I said, is this anything you really wanna even do?

22:35

Mm, right. Because I, I saw the tension between them and, and it didn't look like her mother

22:40

was going to just leave and hands off.

22:44

It wasn't gonna be that simple. And as it turned out, she let that question in.

22:47

And as now and at university studying to be a counselor and she wants to counsel

22:54

people in the hospitality industry because of what her experience was like.

22:57

You know, it can be, it can be fairly traumatic to be in this industry if you're

23:01

not prepared for it, and you carry that trauma with you from job to job to job.

23:05

So the first so after those two processes, then it's then it's a discovery process

23:11

around what are your core values. So there and core values are different than what you're really good at.

23:17

Core values are like what? What's non, what's non-negotiable?

23:21

Do you need autonomy? Do you need support?

23:23

Do you need clear communication? You know, what are those things that you are unwilling to negotiate away?

23:29

Because very often we're taking jobs because of a financial hardship or

23:32

whatever, and don't really get to ask them, ask ourselves those questions.

23:36

So to be in this discovery process of, okay, so what's my why?

23:40

How do I actually make that? Why live in the world?

23:43

So one's an internal process, the other one's external because they gotta call

23:46

people who, who know them and say, yeah, so so what do you know about me?

23:50

Like, how do I actually do this kind of stuff? And that's always a great aha because very often they're unaware that of the way

23:59

that they're showing up to other people. And it could be in complete congruence with that and sometimes not.

24:05

But yeah, very since the pandemic and since, you know, 6 million

24:08

people got out of the industry, and now I think we're back to

24:11

about 4 million have returned back. I really under, I really understood that this was an opportunity

24:16

for them to choose consciously. Like, do you really wanna be in this industry?

24:21

Right. There's nothing, there's nothing wrong with, you know, taking

24:23

a job outside of the industry. And chef Paul Sorgel during an interview I did for Chef Life Radio said, you

24:29

know, if they're not happy, leave. Just leave, just get out of the industry.

24:33

Mm-hmm. And sometimes what happens is they recognize they fall back in

24:38

love with the thing that they were doing before and end up going back.

24:41

I think the chef I think the burn chef project did a survey where they,

24:45

where it was determined that of the people that left the industry, almost

24:49

70% were planning to come back. Interesting.

24:53

But what I knew is that we had to change as an industry and as a

24:57

culture in order to make it safe for those folks to come back because.

25:00

This veneration of overwork, this you know, beating each other

25:03

up verbally and emotionally.

25:06

That that shit doesn't work. Yeah.

25:08

And, and, and didn't. So there's, so there's the discovery process around the, hows the whys.

25:14

Then there is a great resume exercise I do that will el immediately

25:18

illuminate any recurring patterns that happened, not necessarily at

25:21

work, but also in your personal life. 'cause there's an idea of.

25:24

Writing down in those timeframes the major life events the story that you made up

25:29

about it, and then, and then to tell the story, and then to tell the story as a

25:32

reporter would completely neutral in order to see the reality of what was going on.

25:36

For me, the first time I did it, what I, what popped way up for me was this

25:40

idea that anytime that there were things going wrong in my life, I would typically

25:44

pivot to having an illicit romance, because at least I knew how to do that.

25:49

At least that made me feel good, you know? Folks are generally predisposed to running away from pain and towards pleasure.

25:55

So when you have someone who thinks that you're the greatest thing

25:58

since sliced bread, sometimes that's the easiest pivot to make.

26:01

Yeah. To the detriment of all the rest of my relationships.

26:03

Right. So the other, the great thing is that once, once you're grounded

26:09

in your core values and the things that are non-negotiable, then you

26:12

can start interviewing employers as opposed to the other way around.

26:16

And to be really engaged in that process is very, very powerful.

26:20

I. Because you're not a victim anymore.

26:22

You're actually empowered to make the right decision based upon what you want.

26:26

Mm-hmm. And what you want out of your life. And so I, I think it's something that's incredibly.

26:32

Powerful. And from then it's like mechanics.

26:35

Okay? So are, are you in transition right now?

26:38

Are you, you want to, do you want a better job, a bigger job?

26:41

Do you wanna become a food and beverage director? Do you want to move to a different market segment?

26:46

You've been in restaurants now, you want to be in hotels.

26:48

All these particular skill sets are at the core of the same,

26:53

but they're slightly different. And so, Then it becomes interview prep you know, resume work.

27:00

It's whatever needs to happen in order to get them so well prepared

27:04

that when, when they're in the interview, not only do they not falter,

27:10

but they feel completely secure. So one of the things with one of my clients, he kept trying to figure out

27:15

what, what the employer wanted to hear. And I said, every, and so we roleplayed this.

27:21

And every time he would stumble on his words, I'm like, that's

27:24

because you're trying to figure out the answer that I trying.

27:26

Yeah. Yeah. So what, so what would it look like if you actually knew cold?

27:29

What that answer was, regardless of what they want to hear, because then

27:34

you're being completely congruent. You know in your heart exactly what that is, and you come

27:37

across as being confident. Well read. There's also a couple books that I like to give folks during the, during

27:43

the coaching process, depending where they're in their management principles.

27:46

One is Radical Candor by or Radical Cander by Kim Scott, and the other

27:50

one is by our friend Kelly Ingham.

27:53

You know, maximizing team performance, the ABCs of leadership, which is

27:56

assumptions, boundaries and communication.

27:59

You know, those three things. Mm-hmm. Great. Both.

28:01

Yeah. We've had around the show several times, but every time it's like, hits me in

28:05

my heart in such a way that like those two books combined provide the playbook

28:09

for managing and leading people in, in our post covid hospitality 2.0 Reality.

28:17

So there's, so, so Jim Taylor: how, how long do you typically spend with people?

28:21

Like how, how much time Adam Lamb: is this? Yeah, so this process, how long does this take?

28:24

It's pretty detailed. So it's very detailed.

28:27

There's a bunch of worksheets. So I have someone who's, who I'm onboarding right now.

28:30

So that foundational session is about 90 minutes.

28:33

The second session is 60 minutes.

28:36

Typically those are within a week. If someone's on a, a five week program, they want to crash, of course, then

28:43

it's, you know, 60 minutes every time. And I'll also do three months, six months in a year.

28:49

And those work a little bit differently where there's, you know, mm-hmm.

28:52

2 45 minute calls, there's homework between each one.

28:55

There's stuff that they get to do to not only stabilize their

29:01

immediate situation, but lay the groundwork for where they want to go.

29:04

Yeah. I, I had a gentleman who a client who knew that he needed to learn more, period.

29:11

He wanted to learn more about himself. It wasn't necessarily about the job, but it was about him.

29:16

And that was an incredibly rewarding experience for me because it's not just

29:19

me telling people what to do again. If I'm gonna, if I'm going to coach and mentor and teach them how to coach

29:24

and mentor by example and model mature professionalism, which is ultimately

29:29

what this is about, then good morning, someone's shouting out from Facebook.

29:34

Good morning, chef. Good morning. Thanks for joining us.

29:39

It's an opportunity to for those folks to, to grow.

29:45

In an exponential manner. So yeah, we can do it quickly, but really the process between three

29:52

months, six months and a year are individualized as to where they're going.

29:56

Right. I have a guy who I'm very close with, who I, who worked with me at the Omni

30:02

Homestead and then eight years later said, yeah, I think I need some coaching.

30:06

Okay, buddy. Yeah. Couldn't be happier.

30:09

Couldn't be happier. And sometimes that might, that might mean.

30:15

That their relationships change at home. That might mean that their relationships change at work.

30:19

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But, but the worst thing is to walk into this situation and, and be uncoachable,

30:24

think you have all the answers. Mm-hmm. And, and not be willing to go where that leads.

30:31

Yeah. Right. For sure. Like, like I, yeah, I want, I want the best job I've ever had,

30:35

but, you know, I don't want to have to stop drinking and do it.

30:37

Well, you know, and having been with you, Jim, over the last year, It's

30:44

also helped inform me and my process and how I coach people based upon how

30:48

you were in the hospitality industry.

30:51

Mm-hmm. And I gotta say thank you for that because, you know, it's been an

30:54

enriching and rewarding experience for me to be able to kind of frame that I.

30:59

My own work in such a way that not only does it make sense to me, but it makes

31:02

sense to others because I don't want anything to be a mystery about this.

31:06

Yeah. I wanna be completely upfront, honest with everybody.

31:09

And you know, it's for chefs and hospitality professionals

31:13

who want to enjoy their career without sacrificing their life.

31:16

And that's not everybody. There's a lot of folks that are still committed to this sacrifice for your,

31:21

for my passion idea, and And that works until, it doesn't, until your,

31:26

you know, personal relationships are crashing or, or your health.

31:30

The other part of this is there's always going to be a, a, a part of my

31:35

coaching that is about creating a, a practice of self nurture and self-care.

31:40

Mm-hmm. For me, nothing in my life ever changed until I did, until I was

31:45

ready to let go of my bullshit story. Mm-hmm.

31:47

You know, I'm not gonna listen to my own bullshit anymore. I'm gonna ask for help.

31:51

Because Einstein once said, you know, you can't solve a problem

31:53

with the same mind that created it. So very often we need an outside perspective.

31:58

I had someone I had someone do an audit of Chef Life Radio just the other day,

32:02

and they had three specific points that they told me, and it blew me away

32:05

because in the back of my mind I knew it. Right.

32:09

Your call to action. What's your call to action? Why are you talking about memberships if you, if, if you do coaching?

32:13

I'm like, yeah, yeah, I know.

32:16

So it's, it's a, it's a sneaky process because I.

32:20

Theoretically, I'm not telling them anything that they don't already know

32:23

or don't have the access to learn. Yeah.

32:25

And very often that that remembering is so powerful that they're like,

32:29

oh yeah, I, yeah, I knew that. Yeah.

32:32

Jim Taylor: So the, so the people that you spend time with Yep.

32:35

Chefs, hospitality, pros, whatever, whatever their role might be.

32:38

Yep. Is there a, I guess two part question. Is there a, a common thing that they're, they're looking for?

32:47

And, and, and the second part of the question would be, what's the

32:51

common feedback when they're done? Adam Lamb: Sure.

32:54

I would say that there's, they're, they could be in very, very

32:57

different stages of their career.

33:00

They could be in different market segments.

33:02

But the one but the one common factor is they know that there's

33:06

something more available. They just don't know how to get there.

33:09

And that's where I get to come in.

33:12

The feedback from. That I've gotten.

33:15

I just got just celebrated with someone the other day because they just got

33:21

the job of their dreams and they didn't even know that they wanted it, you know?

33:24

Nice. I said, well, how, how are you? And she said I haven't been this good in years.

33:29

Amazing. So, to, to feel on purpose in the right place with the right with the right

33:38

team members and the right, you know, to have support in your, in your career.

33:42

Like, there's nothing better than having a food and beverage director

33:45

or a general manager who, who gets you and wants to support you because

33:49

then, you know, like me, I'm liable to do just about anything in order

33:54

to, you know, keep that relationship solid and, and moving forward.

33:57

Yeah. At the same time, I wanna make sure that I don't sacrifice my family,

34:03

my friends, my own self nurture. Because at the end of the day, I talk about this all the time, the

34:10

self-identification as a chef, as who I am versus what I do.

34:15

Simply because the standpoint, at some point you have to, you, you're

34:18

gonna have to hang your apron up. You know, it's a physically intense, emotionally draining

34:26

intellectually stimulating mm-hmm.

34:28

Career and yet, There's gonna be a moment where you're gonna have to walk away and

34:32

pick something else, whether that's a different market segment like healthcare

34:36

or turn to turn to teaching because you want to give back, but at some point

34:41

you get to hang up your apron and you can't be aligned with that anymore.

34:44

So if, yeah, if you're, then who are you?

34:48

Are you still a chef? Are you a, a former chef?

34:51

I mean, like, and yeah. Identity is a big part of it, right?

34:56

And if, and if you're counting on that in order to get your emotional.

35:01

Emotional gratification, then that ends too.

35:05

And then what happens then? You know, the statistics for, for in the United States for men who

35:11

die after retirement, like within years of retirement, it's staggering.

35:16

Hmm. It's not, it's not so much for the feminine, but for men, it seems

35:19

like if they, like they need, we need, I need a sense of purpose

35:25

in order to get up every morning. Mm-hmm. And so if you don't have that in your life or you think that you're gonna

35:30

golf your day away or go fishing, you know, there's only so much fish.

35:34

Fishermen would probably disagree with me, but you know, geez, how

35:38

many days can you go fishing? Every single one.

35:40

Yeah. Jim Taylor: Yeah, yeah.

35:42

So what's, what's the weight like, kind of just getting back

35:45

to the, the process thing again.

35:48

What's, if, if we went and asked 50 people that have worked, what

35:51

would they say about the sort of, How would they describe this is what

35:55

it was like when we were finished? Where am I?

35:59

Like is there a, is there a sort of a common theme?

36:02

Adam Lamb: Yeah. And again, I just want to kind of reference chef Holly in that, you

36:07

know, she had no, she was unclear that safety was important to her.

36:12

She had got she had got unceremoniously dumped at a resort after putting

36:17

in nine years without necessarily even any feedback from anybody.

36:21

They just put her on leave, pending investigation,

36:24

whatever the hell that means. Because a new company had taken it over and wanted to put in their, and

36:28

installed their people like many, many do. But for her, this idea of emotional safety was so powerful and yet she recognized

36:37

that that was the thing that she could give to others that would matter the most.

36:41

Mm-hmm. Very often those things that we didn't get enough of as we were growing

36:44

up instead of us clinging to that, like, we really, really need it.

36:48

That should, that should be a, an immediate giveaway that that's

36:51

actually our gift to give to others.

36:54

Which I know is kind of a heady concept, but very often it's like,

37:01

I, I knew I knew that, but I didn't really know how deep that went.

37:05

And working with you, like again, to come back to this point, what I really

37:10

want is, is for you, chef, or for you, Jim or anybody, to have their own

37:16

connection to their own guidance, because that, and, and to be able to trust

37:20

that, like, that, that gut feeling like this, this situation is not working.

37:24

And yet you still, you still sit there and grind, grind, grind,

37:27

grind and grind and mm-hmm. And make some terrible sacrifices.

37:30

So to be able to be reconnected to your own guidance so that your

37:33

own gurus, so that from now on you're your own best advocate.

37:37

That's a powerful, powerful thing. Yeah,

37:40

Jim Taylor: for sure. And so, you know, we've talked a lot about your career, how you've

37:45

kind of gone through this process of learning and changing and

37:47

you know, the Einstein quotes. It's genius, obviously Einstein.

37:54

And a little bit about kind of like, okay, here's where people are at when

37:57

they start, here's where people are at, you know, through the process.

38:00

I mean, there's so much value in this type of support for people, especially

38:04

in the restaurant industry, I think because, so I mean, I was one of these

38:09

people, but so often on the job training is what it actually means, is like,

38:14

here's the keys, you're in charge. We changed your title on the schedule, so away you go.

38:20

Right, right. And, and those people are left to really kind of, in a lot of cases,

38:27

struggle their way through trying to learn a lot of these skills.

38:29

So, you know, I think what you're doing is great for the industry and there's

38:33

a lot of, there's a lot of need for Adam Lamb: it. Thanks.

38:36

I mean, I actually had to leave the industry in order

38:39

to learn some of these things. I had, I had to leave the industry to take a, you know, a.

38:44

Actual coaching course to learn how to coach people.

38:47

You know, again, telling people what to do is, you know, can be

38:51

qualified as leadership or at, you know, at the very least, management.

38:56

But in order to be a great leader, you have to be invested in someone else's

39:00

welfare and someone else's growth. And that's not necessarily always apparent.

39:04

So for me, it was a, it's a, it's a legacy project to give back to the industry.

39:08

You know, it's chef life coaching. It's not Adam Lamb, the chef life coach.

39:12

Because I am looking for others to partner with.

39:15

So not only we can grow the brand, but we can also grow the availability of

39:19

this type of coaching to more people.

39:22

Because, you know, they might not think they need it now, that they

39:27

can kind of struggle along that they, that they know what's best.

39:30

And sometimes that's true and sometimes it's not true.

39:33

Again, to have an outside perspective and say, so you don't think this is

39:37

causing you a problem when you know you're in the middle of, you know,

39:40

talking about getting divorced with your wife or whatever that conversation is.

39:43

Mm-hmm. Is really, really powerful.

39:45

So, you know, underneath that umbrella of leadership, you know, the three pillars

39:48

are relationship building, communication skills, and community building.

39:53

And with those three skill sets any chef can become A magnet for, for folks

40:01

who wanna learn in the industry, become the preferred, preferred employer on

40:05

their block, as long as they're in congruence with, you know, the core

40:09

values of the place that they work at.

40:11

And if not the under to have the understanding that the skill sets

40:15

that we have built up that wall with all those yellow stickies

40:18

are transferable to any industry.

40:21

And there's a lot of industries out there that need the type of, you know, program

40:26

management, leadership, mentorship. That, that we learn in our industry mm-hmm.

40:30

That, that a lot of us take for granted. Like, what do you mean?

40:33

Well, dude, it's just, you know, the product's, the product to product, whether

40:37

it's a plate of chicken or an ebook or a building, you know, it's all the same.

40:42

Yeah. And it's just so what's our process to get there?

40:45

Jim Taylor: Amazing. So as you and I have been doing this now for a year and we try

40:50

to always make sure that there's some takeaways for people, right?

40:52

Right. Yep. So I know that you've probably got a few things prepared here, but Sure.

40:56

If I'm a hospitality professional, a chef, an up and coming, you

41:01

know, whatever it might be a future rockstar in the industry.

41:04

Yeah. What are the, what are three things?

41:07

Like what do you recommend that people consider around

41:10

Adam Lamb: this concept? So, so the very first thing I would say is, if nothing else, Make sure that you

41:14

get the two books radical Candor by Kim Scott and maximizing Team Performance,

41:20

the ABCs of Leadership by Kelly Feather.

41:24

Those are two really great places to start.

41:28

I'm not advocating that you go out and get a coach, although depending on

41:33

where you want to be, I have a coach.

41:36

I know you have a coach. Several, some people have several different coaches,

41:41

and again, I a few actually. Yeah, yeah.

41:46

Understand that you know, you'll be continually learning and growing

41:51

throughout your career and may need some support time to time, primarily

41:56

from the standpoint of like, it feels really good to have yourself.

42:00

Being got by someone else, right?

42:03

That's not, that's, that's not, that's not aligned with your work and it's not

42:06

aligned with your relationships, right? You could go home and have that, or go to work and have that, but how do

42:10

you actually know where the mm-hmm.

42:13

Where the true is until you get something from the outside, go

42:16

like, yeah, yeah, man, you're right, you're right on the path, man.

42:19

You're, you're doing great. Keep going. So, so Jim Taylor: the biggest, the best example I have of anyone that I've

42:25

ever met in my life around why coaching is important or just not

42:28

why coach is important, but mm-hmm. That just, it is, and it, it provides value and all these different things.

42:35

It's an an old colleague of mine mm-hmm.

42:37

He. I actually used to work for him.

42:40

He might have even hired me, I can't remember exactly, but definitely promoted

42:43

me a few times throughout my career. He's probably 35 years older than me.

42:47

He's retired now. Uhhuh, he's, you know, he's so, he's in his seventies.

42:54

He has five different coaches and he's in his seventies.

42:57

One of them is financial coach. One of them's his nutrition coach.

43:01

One of them is his golf coach. One of them is his tennis coach, and one of them is, is his bridge coach.

43:07

Mm. Because the things that he's passionate about and that he knows are important

43:12

in his life, he wants to continue to be learning and be successful at.

43:16

So he has coaches, he has a bridge coach. I mean, I didn't even know that was a thing, but I think it's, every time I

43:22

speak to him, I'm reminded that there's, you know, it's, it's important to have,

43:26

you know, that whether it's mentorship, Guidance advice, you know, someone to

43:32

talk through things with and a process. So I think what we're doing for the industry is amazing and would

43:38

definitely recommend that anyone who is in a position of wanting to

43:43

move forward should be in touch with Adam Lamb: you. Right.

43:46

And the other thing I would say is if you're not part of a community, you

43:50

need to be, and I'm not necessarily talking about a Facebook group with

43:54

you know, shitty waitress memes. I'm talking about being in a committed community of like-minded individuals.

44:01

Yeah. Not only so you can see yourself reflected, but you can also be in

44:05

contribution to others, whether that's the a c F or I mean, there's

44:10

plenty of professional organizations that you can be a part of.

44:15

You can come join the chef Life Brigade at chef life coaching.com/.

44:21

Brigade that's the only online community not associated with a

44:25

social media platform of like-minded individuals within the industry.

44:29

Mm-hmm. Again we're not about carpet and bitching about what is we want to know about what's

44:34

possible and how we're gonna move forward. Jim Taylor: Amazing.

44:37

So, is that the best way for people to get Adam Lamb: ahold of you? They can get ahold of me several ways.

44:41

They can get ahold of me through LinkedIn.

44:45

Facebook, I have pretty good presence in. You can go to chef life coaching.com.

44:50

Or you can go to chef life radio.com, which is the podcast that I do that's

44:54

in support of that particular thing. DMM me message me.

44:58

You can call me at (828) 407-3359.

45:03

If you are currently in distress and you need some immediate help, I can point you

45:06

in the direction of some great assets. And you don't necessarily have to be in a dire emotional

45:13

state to, to want to improve. It could be just part of your process, and again, you're looking for someone

45:18

to kind of reflect back to you. So amazing.

45:21

Thanks for giving me this time to talk about what I do and how it, how it how

45:26

it serves not only the, the professionals within it, but also the industry as well.

45:32

Jim, thank you. Jim Taylor: Well, it's been a pleasure and, and I think there's

45:35

lots of key takeaways there. So thanks so much, Adam, and it's been a pleasure spending time with you on this

45:40

podcast over the last year or two, so Adam Lamb: I, I couldn't agree more, man, and I can't wait till next week.

45:46

I'll see you soon. Thanks for joining us on this episode of Turning the Table with

45:52

me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor. We're on a mission to change the food and beverage industry for the better by

45:57

focusing on staff mental health, physical and emotional wellbeing, by proactively

46:01

measuring and managing staff workloads.

46:04

Join other hospitality professionals co-creating the hashtag new

46:07

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46:11

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46:15

In every edition, you'll find innovative solutions ready to test and validate

46:18

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46:24

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46:28

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46:33

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46:43

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46:47

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46:52

This podcast was written, directed, and produced by me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.

46:57

Turning the table is a production of Realignment Media.