0:05

He's back. That retired traveling

0:07

troubadour of the soul author and now

0:09

cauliflower farmer Michael Card is back,

0:12

and we're gonna talk about Jesus

0:14

during Fashion Week Holy

0:16

Week. Is there a scene

0:18

in the last week of the earthly

0:20

ministry of Jesus that stands

0:22

out to you this year? Is there

0:25

a question you have about something that happened

0:27

in that week leading up to the crucifixion

0:30

and the burial and the resurrection?

0:32

If you want to ask a question today, is

0:34

your opportunity, or just tell us what

0:36

is rolling around your your soul

0:39

as we walk through this Tuesday of

0:41

Holy Week. Thanks for joining us. Let's

0:43

get started first with a thank you to Ryan McConaughey

0:46

doing all things technical. Trish is

0:48

our producer out of out of the

0:50

pocket today. So to hear it is in

0:52

the chair now here he is.

0:54

He's recorded more than 30 albums, written

0:56

more than two dozen books, hosted a radio

0:59

program, has spoken around the world, a hilltopper

1:01

from Western Kentucky University lives

1:03

in Tennessee and has again

1:05

lowered himself to join the likes of you

1:07

and me. Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Card.

1:09

Yeah.

1:11

Uh, why do you always do that to me?

1:15

Michael, it's great to hear your voice again. How

1:17

are you?

1:17

Nice. Nice to hear your voice. I mean,

1:19

except for that kind of, uh, over the top,

1:22

uh, introduction. No, it's not

1:24

always nice to hang out with you, Chris.

1:26

Well, and you, uh, you wrote me yesterday

1:28

and said, so what are we talking about tomorrow? So let's

1:30

just talk about Jesus, which is what? Our favorite subject.

1:33

Right? Yeah. That's all I'm interested. What? What

1:35

else is there worth talking about? Right.

1:38

Yeah.

1:38

Yeah, there's, uh,

1:41

there's something that I, we've been giving away

1:43

this month to people who support the program. It's

1:45

about scripture memory. And you told me a story

1:47

before we started on the program

1:50

just a few minutes ago about your grandmother.

1:52

Tell me that story.

1:54

Well, I mean, in the first place, I studied

1:56

for six years with a man who had the whole

1:58

Bible memorized, but he had a photographic

2:00

memory. So that's that's a whole other

2:02

thing. But my my grandmother Brown,

2:05

who was a very popular Bible

2:07

teacher in Knoxville, Tennessee, um,

2:10

she, um, my

2:12

belief is that the the part of your brain

2:14

that when you memorize scripture,

2:16

the part of your brain that holds Scripture

2:19

is very resilient. And

2:21

when she was in her last

2:23

days, uh, and

2:25

didn't know who she was, I mean, she, you

2:27

know, very advanced, sort of

2:29

senile dementia, uh, but

2:31

I would sit next to her bed and read

2:33

the Bible to her, and if I read a word

2:35

wrong, she would correct me. So

2:38

it was. It was all. It was all still in

2:40

her mind, you know, fresh and

2:42

and, uh, I don't

2:44

know, I kind of expect it to be that

2:46

way.

2:47

Yeah, well, that's. Glenn and Marshall

2:49

wrote this book, memorizing Scripture The Basics,

2:52

blessings and benefits of meditating

2:54

on God's Word. And it

2:56

is. She's got quotes in here

2:58

from just, you know, every theologian that you'd

3:00

ever want to read. Joy Packer and others

3:03

who said meditation is the activity

3:06

of calling to mind and thinking

3:08

over and dwelling on

3:10

and applying to oneself

3:12

the various things that one knows about

3:15

the works and ways and purposes and

3:17

promises of God. It's

3:19

an activity of holy thought, consciously

3:22

performed in the presence of God

3:24

under the eye of God, by the

3:26

help of God as a means

3:28

of communion with God.

3:31

And so she says

3:33

that we never study

3:35

God simply to acquire knowledge.

3:38

And we don't memorize Scripture simply to

3:40

be able to recite it. The bedrock

3:42

of both study and meditation is

3:44

relationship. And that's what she's

3:46

nudging us toward and toward. And

3:49

you agree with that?

3:50

I do. And then kind of a new thing for

3:52

me, too. And in meditating on Jesus life,

3:55

um, you know, I used to say, oh,

3:57

well, Jesus is alluding to this

3:59

verse, or Jesus is quoting this verse.

4:02

And now

4:04

what I like to say is Jesus

4:06

thinks in the Bible,

4:09

you know, when he says, you know, father, into

4:11

your hands I commit my spirit. That's Psalm 31.

4:13

I don't think he's I used to say he's quoting

4:15

Psalm one. I don't say, I don't think

4:17

that anymore. Jesus just thinks

4:20

in the Bible. And, uh,

4:22

I want to I want to go

4:25

in that direction, you know? Yes. You think

4:27

in biblical and biblical images

4:30

and biblical phrases and,

4:32

uh, just and they just become a part

4:34

of you and, uh, that's

4:37

it.

4:37

And you ruminate, you know, you've got

4:39

you have farm animals who, who ruminate,

4:42

who chew the cud, you know, and who

4:45

that's what we are. That's what she talks

4:47

about. We kind of we mumble these words

4:49

to ourselves. We we bring

4:52

them over and over and over again. So they

4:54

become a part of us. So let me just say,

4:56

uh, only a few days left. I'd love

4:58

to send you memorizing scripture. I'll send it

5:00

to you. Michael, you sound like you're further down the trail

5:03

that I have on this.

5:04

No. Well, I'm horrible at memorizing

5:07

scripture, but I can tell you the scriptures that I

5:09

quote, I can quote are

5:11

the scriptures that I think in or the scriptures

5:13

that have impacted me. And if

5:15

there's a if there's a plan that works,

5:17

that helps you memorize, I'm I would love

5:20

to see that.

5:20

Well, one of the things she talks about is

5:22

the the first letter of each word in

5:24

the verse. So you just put the first letter

5:27

of the word, like if you're doing Psalm 20

5:29

3TLI

5:32

M's, the Lord is my shepherd.

5:34

And so you go through the whole thing that way.

5:36

And all your brain needs is that first

5:39

letter to this is really

5:41

good. Let me send you a memorizing scripture.

5:43

Call 86695. Favorite.

5:45

Give a gift of any size

5:47

(866) 953-2279

5:51

or go to Chris Fabry Live org.

5:53

Scroll down. You'll see Glenn's book right there

5:56

Chris Fabry Live dawg.

5:58

All right, so let's

6:02

see where do we start? I have a question.

6:04

I was going to ask the two Michaels this question I

6:06

didn't the last time I saw him. So let me

6:08

ask you, when Jesus speaks in the temple,

6:11

where is he generally,

6:13

especially in Passion Week, where is

6:15

he and what does that look

6:17

like? Do people crowd around him?

6:20

Does he have a lectern? Obviously he's

6:22

not. He doesn't have a bullhorn, you know, that kind

6:24

of thing. What does it look like?

6:26

Well, I mean, sometimes the reference is just

6:28

given in general. He's in the temple court,

6:31

which means he's in the court of the Gentiles,

6:33

and that's a 35 acre

6:35

area. I mean, it can hold,

6:38

you know, thousands and thousands of people.

6:40

But there are also references to him

6:42

being in Solomon's Colonnade, which

6:44

if you ever see the pictures of the reconstruction

6:47

of the temple on on the far side

6:49

of the temple platform, there's this long

6:51

colonnade that has a roof on it,

6:53

and I imagine

6:55

him to that area.

6:58

Uh, sitting in Judaism, you always

7:00

sit down to teach. He sits down

7:02

in the steps. I don't think he has a lectern or anything

7:04

that that, uh, that formal.

7:07

And the crowds just gather around him.

7:10

And standing. Sitting?

7:13

Was he doing.

7:15

Well? No. You sit down to teach.

7:17

And those are every now and then you'll you'll read in the Gospels.

7:19

He sat down to teach you. Stand up

7:21

when you recite scripture, but you sit down

7:23

to teach. Um, and

7:27

and again, uh, it

7:29

doesn't give us the specifics, but,

7:31

um, I don't think there's going to be a huge

7:34

crowd in the in the temple cord around him,

7:36

because that would, uh, that would be a problem.

7:38

I know in John seven, uh,

7:40

when he shouts out and he responds

7:43

to the high priest, uh, with joy,

7:45

you will draw water from the wells of salvation.

7:47

The high priest shouts, and Jesus shouts back,

7:50

if a man is thirsty, let him come to me

7:52

and drink. There were probably

7:54

tens of thousands of people. That's probably

7:56

the largest crowd he ever spoke to. It's

7:58

one of my favorite passages in the in the Gospels.

8:01

But in this this week

8:04

in history, when Jesus was

8:06

there, the, um,

8:08

the vehemence even Lazarus

8:10

they were applauding for to

8:12

kill Lazarus at this point.

8:14

So destroy the.

8:15

Evidence. Yeah. Danger. It's

8:18

it's becoming more and more dangerous

8:20

for him to be out in the open.

8:22

Right?

8:23

Yeah. But yeah. Yes, absolutely.

8:25

But Jesus is in

8:27

danger his whole life. I mean, when he's a

8:29

the slaughter of the innocents, I mean, they

8:32

try to kill him when he's born.

8:35

Uh, Joseph moves to Nazareth

8:37

because it's too dangerous to go

8:40

wherever it was he was going to go because Archelaus

8:42

was ruling in that area. So he lives

8:44

in Nazareth basically to escape

8:46

danger. Uh, he he

8:49

lives he lives this sort of under

8:51

threat, uh, most of his

8:53

life. And, uh, that's another thing

8:55

that is new for me.

8:57

You think all the pressure just comes

8:59

on at the end, but,

9:01

uh, again, I think, is it at

9:04

one point, Jesus brothers say, you

9:06

know, anybody wants to be a public

9:08

figure. You know, you shouldn't

9:10

stay here. You should go to Jerusalem. Uh,

9:13

and I think it's John that has this

9:15

little parenthetical statement, because the Jews are waiting

9:17

there to kill him. So he is

9:19

under threat for a good part of

9:21

his life.

9:22

Michael Card is with us at the back fence today,

9:24

and I want to give you the chance to

9:26

ask a question about Jesus, especially

9:29

this last week of his earthly

9:31

ministry. Or maybe there's

9:34

something, as you've been reading through the Gospels,

9:36

that just jumped out to you like never

9:38

before, and you want to talk about that. Let's

9:40

talk about Jesus. Not a better subject that

9:42

we could talk about. Here's the number

9:44

(877) 548-3675.

9:48

Or you can leave a question on Facebook

9:51

as well, or call us (877) 548-3675.

9:56

More with Michael Card straight ahead

9:58

on Moody Radio. Just

10:11

you and me and Michael Card today at the radio

10:13

back fence talking about Jesus.

10:17

Ago he blessed the earth.

10:19

Born older than the year.

10:23

And in the stall the cross

10:25

he saw through the first

10:27

of many tears. A

10:30

life of homeless wandering.

10:37

The shepherds. He.

10:53

Dover sole defender,

10:56

has won the victory.

11:00

Crucified around

11:02

at the grave. Shame. A place

11:05

of hope. For the heart that

11:07

sin and sorrow broke

11:09

is. Once again.

11:13

The grave became a place of hope.

11:15

Isn't that good? That's Michael Card's

11:17

song from a long time, one of the first songs I ever heard

11:19

of Michael Card. You know, El Shaddai

11:22

was around at the same time, and a lot

11:24

of people get that wrong. We've talked about that. They

11:26

think that love crucified a

11:28

rose, but it's a rose.

11:31

Love crucified arose, right?

11:33

Yeah, right. I stole that line from

11:35

Emily Dickinson. She said when love was crucified,

11:37

it arose. So sounds

11:40

like I'm about 12 years old. I think singing

11:42

on.

11:43

Women did it. Did Emily ever come

11:45

back and ask you for royalties on that?

11:47

Yeah. No, no, she's she's been strangely

11:49

silent on that one.

11:51

Yeah. She has. Well, that's you know, that's one

11:54

of those songs that just kind of sticks

11:56

with you that thought

11:58

and what and the lengths, as we talk about Jesus,

12:01

the lengths to which God went.

12:03

If you ever questioned the love of God for

12:05

you and me, just look at this

12:07

week, right?

12:08

Yeah, yeah. You can't look at the cross

12:10

and deny the fact that God loves you.

12:13

Hmm? Yeah. Um,

12:16

okay. What about the Colt? I'm going

12:18

to jump into this because in Mark 11,

12:21

it's in pretty much all the Gospels.

12:23

Yeah. Jesus. And this cult

12:25

of a donkey. And I've I've often

12:27

said, if God is sovereign

12:30

enough to care for this little

12:32

donkey, what does that mean to say about

12:34

my life? But why is that

12:36

important? An important part of the story?

12:39

Well, in the first place, it's a fulfillment

12:41

of prophecy. Uh, in the second

12:43

place, it's a sign. Uh,

12:45

the the the so-called triumphal

12:48

entry is full of all these signs.

12:51

Uh, but it's a sign that he's coming in peace.

12:54

Uh, if a king had conquered a

12:56

city, uh, the

12:58

conquered people would be really closely

13:01

watching to see what kind

13:03

of mount the king would

13:05

approach the city. And if he's coming

13:07

on a donkey, he's coming in peace,

13:10

because you're not going to do any fighting on

13:12

a donkey. If he's coming in war,

13:15

he's going to be riding a war horse. And

13:17

interesting that when Jesus returns

13:19

and in revelation, what's he riding?

13:21

A big white horse. Mhm. So

13:23

he's coming to conquer. But the first time

13:26

he's coming in peace, he's coming to be

13:28

conquered. Uh, that first

13:30

time. And the coat's on

13:32

the road. The people are shouting,

13:34

you know that he's a king.

13:37

They're they're waving palm branches, which

13:39

is kind of Jewish nationalism. All

13:41

the ancient coins, Jewish coins

13:43

had palm branches on them. So there's

13:45

all kinds of imagery,

13:48

uh, going on. It's amazing moment.

13:51

Was when they did the coat

13:53

thing. Um, I've

13:55

always thought of this as an homage,

13:58

you know, to honor the person, to

14:00

put the coat down. Yeah, but this

14:02

was a this was this was

14:04

an honorable thing to do, but it

14:06

was saying, here comes royalty, right?

14:08

Yeah. Well, second Kings nine

14:11

when Jehu comes into Jerusalem,

14:13

people do that. They put their coats down. And I'm

14:15

kind of assuming that that was just the standard,

14:18

standard, uh, practice.

14:21

Uh, but the, the other there's this wonderful

14:23

sort of ambiguity about the I always

14:25

call it the so called triumphal entry

14:28

because Luke, Luke tells us that Jesus

14:30

has been weeping. He's wiping tears from his

14:32

eyes because he knows in,

14:34

in vivid detail

14:36

exactly what's going to happen to him this

14:38

week. Right? And, uh, so he's

14:40

weeping and there's all this adulation

14:42

around him. So he's misunderstood. And

14:45

I think people are they're

14:47

always sort of, uh, I don't know. They're unaware

14:50

of of his where he

14:52

is emotionally. And I

14:54

think that's one thing that explains when he does

14:56

get into town, when he does get into Jerusalem

14:58

and goes to the temple, um,

15:00

he tears up the temple market for

15:03

the second time. That second temple cleansing

15:05

happens right after the, uh,

15:07

at least in three of the Gospels. It does. He

15:09

he overturns the the

15:11

the the the money changers

15:14

and the in the temple.

15:15

It really bookends his ministry is

15:18

we begin with the temple cleansing and

15:20

we end that week with the temple. Or

15:22

that last week is when it happened.

15:24

Yeah. And and a new thing for me,

15:26

Chris, is, is that Jesus

15:29

is the conservative. The Pharisees are the

15:31

really the liberals because Jesus

15:33

is the one who won't let people carry things through the

15:35

temple. He's the one who's outraged

15:37

that they've moved the temple marketplace

15:39

from the Mount of Olives into the court of the Gentiles.

15:41

So now the Gentiles don't have a place to play.

15:44

Pray. Jesus is the one who

15:46

says, you know, what does Moses say? Go.

15:48

So show yourself to the priest. You know, he's

15:50

I think he's very conservative in many ways.

15:53

But you can't say Jesus is just one

15:55

thing, because then in many ways,

15:57

he's, you know, he's not conservative.

15:59

When they approach Jerusalem. This is from Mark

16:01

11 at Bethphage and Bethany

16:03

near the Mount of Olives. Correct. My pronunciation

16:06

if you want to. He sent two of his disciples

16:08

and told them, go into the village ahead of you.

16:10

As soon as you enter it, you will find a young

16:13

donkey tied there, on which no

16:15

one has ever sat. Untie it and bring it here.

16:17

If anyone says to you, why are you doing

16:19

this? Say the Lord needs it and will

16:21

send it back to you here right away.

16:23

Even the fact that no one had ever ridden the

16:26

donkey is a sign of kingship,

16:28

because kings use things that

16:30

people have never used before. Yes. So

16:32

every little detail points to this,

16:34

uh, the kingship of Jesus. It's pretty

16:36

cool.

16:37

It's the same thing, though, in Mark

16:39

14, when,

16:42

um, the preparation

16:44

on the first day, he sent two of his

16:46

disciples and said, go into the city, and

16:49

a man carrying a water jug will meet

16:51

you. Follow him wherever

16:53

he enters. Tell the owner of the house,

16:55

the teacher says, where's the guest room?

16:57

So? So my question is

17:00

why? Why? Why didn't

17:02

he just say, you know, go down to Third Street

17:04

and, you know, 27 third Street?

17:06

That's where we're going to do this or

17:08

the donkey thing, you know, that it's tied up

17:10

outside. But he.

17:13

He doesn't. He doesn't do that. He shows.

17:15

It's almost like he shows them his.

17:18

How much?

17:20

Um, if.

17:21

I'm struggling here to to describe

17:23

the perfect man. Perfect.

17:26

It's God, you know?

17:27

Well, I think it's prearranged

17:30

and and and I, I would

17:32

never be dogmatic about this, but I,

17:34

I think it's probably Mark's house.

17:36

Uh, I think the person carrying the jar. That's

17:39

unusual because men don't carry water jars,

17:41

right? That's usually a woman's job. Okay.

17:43

And so that's why that's, you know, that's

17:45

important. But I really do think

17:47

the upper room, uh, the guest room

17:49

where they have the Lord's Supper, I think that was

17:51

at Mark's house. And my my academic reason

17:53

is I really want it to be that way.

17:56

But. Well, why would you say.

17:57

Then go to Mark's house? You know, Mark's mom

18:00

is pretty wealthy.

18:01

And and she's she's one of the followers

18:04

and they live in Jerusalem and,

18:06

um, no, I think

18:08

there's there

18:10

is a there is a good case. I would never,

18:12

never be dogmatic about what the Bible's not dogmatic

18:15

about. But I think there's a good case

18:17

for the fact that that's Mark. How

18:19

cool is that?

18:21

And I hadn't thought of that. Although

18:24

in the Mark keeps himself

18:26

hidden, because if it is Mark

18:28

who's wrapped in a tunic and

18:30

they grab it and he runs away naked,

18:33

you know, he doesn't say this as me, but

18:35

it seems like from the text that that

18:37

probably is Mark after Jesus

18:39

is arrested. Right? What?

18:41

Right. But none of the gospel writers identify

18:43

themselves. All, um, none

18:45

of the Gospels are signed the way Paul's

18:47

letters are signed. So no,

18:50

they don't they don't identify themselves.

18:52

What is you mentioned the temple

18:54

cleanse. Why is that important

18:57

here at the this last

18:59

week?

19:00

Well, I think it it it's

19:02

pointing towards a shift that's

19:05

happening. Uh, the as I understand

19:07

it, the the the it was

19:09

called the bazaar of anise. Uh,

19:12

anise was the father of the high priest, and

19:14

he had been high priest. And it was,

19:16

uh, traditionally on the, on the Mount

19:18

of Olives and,

19:20

uh, the first year of Jesus ministry,

19:22

they've moved it into the temple court. And

19:24

that's the first temple cleansing. There are a lot of scholars

19:27

disagree with this, but I

19:29

don't think Mark has it in the wrong place,

19:31

you know, which is what they have to say. Uh,

19:34

but so the first thing, public

19:36

thing, basically a mark, is that Jesus tears

19:39

up the temple, uh, marketplace.

19:41

And I think he tears it up because he's

19:43

shocked that it's there.

19:45

You know, it's always been on the Mount of Olives.

19:47

And what happens? Um, the

19:50

Gentiles have no quiet place

19:52

to pray. And, you know, the temple.

19:54

This is supposed to be a house for all nations,

19:56

he says. So, uh, and

19:58

then, um, I'm not sure

20:00

about the second year. There's one year, there's

20:03

one Passover in John six that Jesus

20:05

doesn't go, uh, apparently

20:07

to Jerusalem. So maybe that's the second year. But

20:09

then the third year he goes, the last year

20:11

he goes and it's there. And,

20:13

uh, I think he tears it up again.

20:16

Um, and

20:18

it's so it's to establish a quiet

20:20

place for the Gentiles. And I think that's

20:22

the shift that's coming. There's

20:24

a there's an emphasis. I mean, in

20:26

early in the ministry, what does he say to the disciples?

20:28

Go only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

20:31

I mean, the focus is really, uh, to,

20:33

to, to, to Jews.

20:35

But I think towards the end of the ministry

20:37

there becomes this openness and this,

20:40

uh, you know, we're going to we're

20:42

going to clear the court of the Gentiles out so they

20:44

will have a quiet place to pray.

20:46

Interesting. Michael Card is with us

20:48

today. I've got so many questions.

20:50

And one of them, I'm going to hold back on Gethsemane,

20:53

because we're going to do the whole program on Thursday

20:55

about that. But I have to ask you about this

20:57

one thing. When they're in the upper

20:59

room and, uh,

21:02

Jesus washes their feet and

21:04

Judas goes to betray.

21:07

What I've never been able to understand is

21:10

the chief priests, the people.

21:13

They know who Jesus is. Why

21:15

would they need Judas to

21:17

go and kiss him and say, okay, here

21:19

he is, wouldn't they? Wouldn't

21:22

they be able to pick him out in the

21:24

crowd of disciples?

21:25

That's a great question. I mean, all

21:27

I can say is I don't

21:30

think Jesus is immediately recognizable

21:32

to everybody. Uh, Judas has

21:34

to point him out. His own disciples don't recognize

21:37

him. In John 21 at second

21:39

miraculous catch a fish. Um,

21:41

and and there's this odd thing after

21:44

the resurrection, whenever he wants to be recognized,

21:46

he points to his scars. He doesn't point

21:48

to his face. Remember my brown eyes

21:51

and my black hair or whatever.

21:53

Um, so I think that there are all these

21:56

soldiers and they're all these people that have come to

21:58

to arrest him. And

22:00

I don't think, I don't think he's immediately recognizable.

22:03

I think there's a good chance that he he looked an awful

22:05

lot like everybody else. Uh,

22:07

he's not six foot tall and auburn hair

22:10

with blue eyes. You know, there's

22:12

nothing in his. Appearance that we should desire

22:14

him, right? The prophet says. So,

22:17

um. No, I think you just has to point

22:19

him out.

22:20

Especially to if

22:22

I'm trying to answer my own question, especially if

22:24

it's night and you come with the

22:26

torches and,

22:28

you know, and you're

22:30

praying in the garden and and all that.

22:32

It would be easy to

22:35

mix one person up with another person

22:37

when it's dark like that.

22:38

Right? And if you listen to the detail

22:41

of that scripture, they come with torches

22:43

and land and weapons. What is that? What

22:45

is that hint? The hint is they're

22:48

expecting a search. They're expecting to

22:50

find Jesus cowering underneath a bush

22:52

somewhere, and he walks right up

22:54

to them, you know, who are you looking for?

22:56

Uh, Jesus of Nazareth. I'm he.

22:58

Right. And, uh, and the

23:01

the Jewish people fall down,

23:03

the priests fall down, and the soldiers fall

23:05

back because they they think they've

23:07

walked right into an ambush.

23:08

Yes. This this.

23:11

There's so many, um, there's so

23:13

many questions that people have about

23:16

this week about, you know, Jesus,

23:18

about the crucifixion. And you were

23:21

asked in church this last week,

23:23

you know, some of these questions or to think

23:25

about, you know, is there an actual Via

23:27

Dolorosa? Uh, no.

23:30

Why?

23:31

Well, because Jerusalem's been

23:33

destroyed 11 times. Something like

23:35

that. Since. Since the time of Jesus.

23:37

And when it's destroyed,

23:39

you don't have bulldozers that clear it off.

23:41

You basically just pile the rubble and build up on top

23:43

of that. And so if

23:45

you go to Jerusalem now, there are a couple

23:48

of places where you can go down to the

23:50

actual street level where Jesus would have

23:52

walked. And it's it's about 60ft

23:54

below the street level currently.

23:58

So, um, was

24:00

there a way of sorrows? A

24:03

yeah, definitely there was. But,

24:05

uh, is it the one that's marked out now

24:08

in Jerusalem? I think most of the

24:10

guides have told me, you know,

24:12

probably not. Uh, but there's

24:14

a wonderful place you can go right off. There's a square

24:16

right down from the shore. Shame shop in,

24:19

uh, in Jerusalem, where you go down several flights

24:21

of stairs and and they've cleared it all

24:23

out, and you can see the actual street

24:26

where Jesus would have walked. Mm.

24:28

I haven't talked with you since October.

24:31

And what happened? I don't think, uh,

24:33

in Israel, I want to ask you about that.

24:36

And I'm going to open up the phone lines for

24:38

you friends, if you want to talk with Michael Card, we're

24:40

just talking about Jesus. We're talking about this last

24:42

week of Jesus earthly ministry.

24:45

Here's the number (877) 548-3675.

24:50

I also see some folks that are weighing in

24:52

on Facebook, so I'd love to hear from you. Get

24:54

involved. Participate with us here at the Back

24:56

fence today at (877) 548-3675

25:01

or go to Chris Fabri Live org.

25:03

We have Michael's book, The Nazarene

25:05

Link right there Chris Fabry

25:08

live. Org more

25:10

straight ahead.

25:11

The heart beating and sorrow

25:14

is beating once again.

25:17

Love. Crucified rose.

25:21

The risen one is friend.

25:25

Jehovah's old defender.

25:35

And the break became a. For

25:38

the heart missing and sorrow

25:41

for. He

25:52

will say his name is casualty.

25:56

Be breathing once again.

26:06

Look the news every day. There are legal skirmishes

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and legislative moves being made

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on the issue of abortion. The Supreme Court

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because there are people working every day to

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that green Carnet button right there Chris

27:11

Fabry live.org

27:13

Chris Fabry living org

27:16

with Michael Card talking about

27:18

Jesus. Eva is in Indiana.

27:21

Hi, Eva. Go right ahead.

27:24

Hi. Um, I'm just wondering

27:26

when Jesus was on the cross and said, My

27:28

God, my God, why hast thou forsaken

27:30

me? Do you think he felt surprised?

27:33

Loneliness? Fear? Maybe

27:35

even wondering. Did I get something

27:37

wrong? Am I not going to be reunited

27:39

with the father? Mm.

27:41

Great question. Michael. What do you say?

27:44

Well, that's that is a great question.

27:46

And, uh, what what I was

27:48

raised to understand is when Jesus

27:51

says, why have you now? And and sure, as

27:53

I say this, there are a lot of people that disagree

27:55

with this. Now, there's popular

27:57

teaching that disagrees with us this now.

27:59

But when I was, uh, studying

28:01

scripture and kind of growing up, um,

28:04

Jesus becomes sin, we're told he becomes

28:06

sin on the cross. And and

28:09

he was first. He was forsaken by God. That's

28:11

the price that you pay. For

28:14

sin. And um,

28:16

and he's quoting again, he's quoting scripture

28:19

there. He, he, he thinks in Scripture

28:22

and, uh, why have you forsaken me?

28:24

Because he takes upon himself the sin of the world.

28:26

And, um, that

28:28

to me, is the only thing that makes it. That makes

28:31

sense. I don't think he's confused.

28:33

Um, but there, uh, a lot

28:36

the, the standard kind of response these

28:38

days is, oh, God would never forsake him.

28:41

Um, but, um, I think

28:43

God looks away. I mean, is it Habakkuk

28:45

that says, God, his eyes are too pure to

28:47

look upon sin? And so Jesus

28:49

takes upon himself the sin of the world, and God looks

28:52

away and, um,

28:54

that's.

28:54

But you're not suggesting there was a break

28:56

in the Trinity that, you know.

28:59

I don't I don't I don't.

29:01

Know, I mean, that's such a the trinity, such

29:03

a mystery. I mean, I can't say, but I

29:05

do know I do know that Jesus

29:07

took upon himself the sin of the world.

29:10

And the the consequence of that

29:12

was, I believe that God looked

29:14

away and, um, he

29:16

felt that separation. Uh, the Creed

29:19

says he descended into hell. That's

29:21

a creed. That's not the Bible. But, um,

29:23

but the creed is trying to say, this is

29:25

this is the price you pay for sin.

29:28

And, uh, imagine he's

29:30

one with the father from all eternity.

29:33

You know, both ways going,

29:35

going back and going forward. And then that one

29:37

moment on the cross, uh,

29:40

he takes upon himself our sin.

29:43

And, um,

29:45

I like that somebody said, Jesus

29:48

loves you so much he would rather die than live without

29:50

you. I mean, it's, uh, irregardless

29:52

of these kind of theological questions,

29:55

it is. It's

29:57

this, uh, remarkable,

29:59

over-the-top, extraordinary

30:01

expression of his love

30:04

for us. That's what's behind

30:06

the cross. Is he loves you so much, you'd rather die

30:08

than live without you.

30:09

I was reading, uh, this week

30:11

that very thing about what was going

30:13

on, especially what goes on in Gethsemane.

30:15

And the horror, the

30:17

horror of what he was facing.

30:19

And he and he conditions

30:22

his disciples. Eve, a great question. Thank

30:24

you. And you're right, Michael. There are people

30:26

who disagree with you that I might be one of them. But,

30:28

you know, let's keep on going. Um,

30:30

the the idea

30:32

of, uh, is,

30:35

is he having second thoughts when

30:37

he says, if there's any way for this cup

30:39

to pass, you know? Yeah. You

30:41

know, I don't want to do this. And it's not

30:43

that he has said the

30:45

Son of Man is going here, and this is

30:47

what's going to happen. He's going to be handed,

30:49

you know, he tells them what's going to happen,

30:51

even though he's going to be.

30:52

Bound, he's going to be spat upon. He

30:54

knows in in detail exactly

30:57

what's going to happen to him.

30:58

Yes.

30:59

And here and there in the garden

31:02

and, and on the cross.

31:04

The weight of this

31:06

is on him. And to me

31:08

that just signifies we're not

31:11

dealing with some superhuman

31:13

person that, you know,

31:16

we're not dealing with Superman, quote unquote.

31:18

We're dealing with a human being who

31:20

is fully human, who is also

31:22

fully God, which I can't wrap my mind around.

31:25

No, but no one was experiencing every

31:28

every emotion that

31:30

you go through when you were whipped

31:32

to within an inch of your life.

31:34

Yeah. And but what you have is that

31:37

you have that incredible battle that he has,

31:39

basically, he says, if there's any way I can get out of this,

31:41

I want out. And he prays

31:44

any agonizes in prayer. But what how does

31:46

he end his prayer? Not what I want,

31:48

but what you want. And that's

31:50

really that moment, is when

31:52

the kind of the victory of the cross happened

31:55

in Gethsemane, when

31:57

Jesus, you know, surrendered his will.

31:59

You know, I don't want to do this. I mean, it's

32:02

the it's unimaginable suffering

32:04

and, um, and

32:06

on all sorts of levels, physical and

32:08

spiritual and, and, uh, every level

32:10

you can think. And he says, I don't want this

32:12

to happen. If there's any way out, I want out.

32:14

Nevertheless, it's not what I

32:17

want, but what you want.

32:19

So he surrenders to the father,

32:21

the father's will, and it's, uh,

32:24

it's it's, uh, we're

32:26

just too familiar with it. We've heard those

32:28

verses all our lives, and. Yeah, I think

32:30

you have to keep asking the Holy Spirit. Let

32:34

me let me realize this. Let me understand

32:36

this in a fresh way, uh,

32:38

because we, we just we think we understand,

32:40

and it's just, uh,

32:43

we need to see it in a fresh way.

32:45

Well, and we we read past

32:47

it because we've seen it so, so many

32:49

times, you know, um,

32:52

I had the question from

32:54

Luke 22, and

32:56

this is Peter's denial.

32:59

Simon, Simon, look out. Satan

33:01

has asked to sift you like wheat.

33:03

Yeah, but I have prayed for you that your faith

33:05

may not fail. And you and you have turned

33:08

back. Strengthen your brothers, obviously,

33:10

you know. And the rooster is not going to.

33:13

Ho ho ho three times.

33:15

So when he says Satan

33:17

has asked to sift you like wheat,

33:20

what do you think? Do you think that that

33:22

Satan actually mentioned

33:24

this, you know, to Jesus

33:27

or to God the Father? And it was,

33:29

what does he mean by Satan

33:31

is asked to sift you like wheat?

33:34

Well, I mean, the the translation

33:36

I'm looking at says that he says,

33:38

Satan has asked to sift you all,

33:41

uh, all of them like wheat. But then

33:43

he says, but I prayed for you. Singular.

33:45

Simon, uh, that your faith

33:48

may not fail. And

33:50

when you have returned to me,

33:52

when you've turned back around, strengthen

33:54

your brother. So Satan's going to sift all

33:56

of them. And you know, when you sift wheat,

33:58

what you're doing is you're separating the

34:01

the chaff from the from the grains

34:03

of wheat. So that's an image,

34:05

uh, that they all would have, you know,

34:07

uh, understood. Uh,

34:10

but the question is, so why

34:12

why does Simon survive?

34:15

And the answer is, he survived because

34:17

Jesus prayed for him.

34:19

Yeah.

34:20

You know what happens to Judas? Judas doesn't survive.

34:23

But, uh, Simon survives because

34:25

Jesus says, Simon, I prayed for you. And

34:27

when you've turned back around, you strengthen

34:29

your brothers. Yeah.

34:31

Isn't that great?

34:33

Oh, it's amazing. And I believe that

34:35

Jesus prays for us. I really think

34:37

he. Well, I know he intercedes.

34:39

He's at the right hand of the father interceding

34:42

for us right now.

34:43

Right?

34:43

Well, but in John 17,

34:46

he does right there. I was reading that

34:48

a little earlier. I pray not only for

34:50

these, but also for

34:52

those who believe in me through

34:54

their message. May they all be one

34:57

as you, father and me, and I am in you. He's

34:59

you know, that's us. That's you and me right there.

35:02

Isn't that great?

35:02

Right. Well, and and the way I get

35:04

it, Chris, the whole the whole that throne room

35:07

scene, uh, you know, Satan

35:09

is the accuser, right? He's accusing

35:11

us and he says, you know, look at card

35:13

and Faber down there. You know what? Hypocrites.

35:16

What you know. Yes. You know, pointing

35:18

out all the things that are, you know, at least in my

35:20

case, are true. I don't know about you. And

35:22

every time Satan says, what about this?

35:24

What about this? What about this? Jesus is at the

35:27

right hand of the father, and I think he's

35:29

pointing to his scars. And he says, well,

35:31

what about this? Mhm. And

35:33

God says you know, will favoring card, they're

35:35

unacceptable. But I'm going to accept them

35:37

because of you. Yeah. You know

35:39

Satan accuses us and

35:42

Jesus intercedes for us and

35:44

uh, he lives to intercede for

35:46

us. You know, he's a great high priest.

35:48

It's the, the way all of

35:50

those images from the Hebrew Bible come together

35:53

in and are fulfilled in Jesus, or just.

35:56

And they just take your breath away.

35:58

Yeah.

35:59

I, I read the Gospels

36:01

and have, you know, 2000

36:03

years to look back and say, what

36:06

knuckleheads, these disciples, you know,

36:08

when they did this and why did you do that?

36:10

And then I think, you know, you

36:12

and I make this. We're we're knuckleheads.

36:15

We don't there's so many ways with

36:17

all that we have with the Scripture

36:19

that we have with this, you know, with God's

36:22

Word that we don't understand

36:24

it even all these years

36:26

later with all these tools. And and

36:28

the study helps that we have we get

36:31

it wrong a lot and, and we mess

36:33

up. And aren't you glad for a Savior

36:36

who gave himself for you and

36:38

me? That's what we're talking about today at the radio

36:40

backyard fence. Michael, cards with us.

36:42

There's more coming up in our final segment

36:44

with him, and I hope you stay with us right here.

36:47

This is Chris Fabri live on Moody

36:49

Radio.

37:01

Michael Kors wear this at the radio backyard fence.

37:03

That purveyor of hesed. We've talked

37:05

about that book of his this untranslatable

37:08

world word and

37:10

just talking about Jesus. There was a

37:12

caller who couldn't stay on

37:14

Michael who said, okay, I

37:16

get just Palm Sunday.

37:18

We just celebrated that, you know, Resurrection

37:20

Sundays coming up. What happened

37:23

on each of those days,

37:25

though, of Holy Week? And can you just

37:27

take a guided tour through that

37:29

real quick?

37:30

Yeah, I can give you kind of a brief overview.

37:33

Um, he he enters what

37:35

we call Palm Sunday. Uh,

37:37

he he enters Jerusalem on Palm Sunday.

37:40

Uh, on and and there's

37:43

a little, uh, it's not quite clear

37:45

from the Gospels. Some of the Gospels

37:47

sort of make you think that the first thing he does is tear up

37:49

the temple. Another one of the gospels. I think

37:51

maybe it's Mark. I'm not sure. Says

37:54

he looked at the temple, and then

37:56

he went back out to the Mount of Olives. So if

37:58

you follow that chronology on

38:00

Monday is when he tears up

38:02

the temple. Uh, Tuesday he

38:04

teaches in the temple. Uh, Wednesday,

38:08

uh, Wednesday is when Judas goes

38:10

to the priest and basically says, what will

38:12

you give me? Uh, if I hand him

38:14

over to you? So that happens on Wednesday. Uh,

38:17

Thursday, which we refer to as Maundy

38:19

Thursday, is The Last Supper.

38:21

And that's interesting. Um, because,

38:24

uh, Galilean Jews celebrate

38:27

Passover on Thursday night. Judean

38:29

Jews celebrated on Friday night. That's that

38:31

explains, uh, that

38:34

explains why when when they're they've

38:36

arrested Jesus and they're trying to rush him through the

38:38

trial. They want to be cleaned

38:40

so they can celebrate Passover. Well, Jesus

38:43

as a Galilean Jew celebrates on Thursday.

38:46

Uh, and then Friday, uh,

38:48

when everyone else is, is sacrificing

38:51

their Passover lambs for between 3

38:53

and 6. Jesus is hanging on the

38:55

cross. So the exact

38:57

time. And that's one of these amazing,

39:00

you know, truths. But at the exact

39:03

same time, when they're they're sacrificing

39:05

their Passover lambs. Jesus is dying on

39:07

the cross. Darkness covers the earth

39:10

on Saturday Shabbat,

39:12

Jesus rests in the tomb. And

39:14

then, uh, Sunday is

39:16

obviously the resurrection. And,

39:18

uh. Uh, I don't

39:20

know. It's. It's

39:23

just hard to talk about it. Yeah,

39:25

it's hard to talk about it. But

39:28

one interesting thing. Okay, this last week

39:30

of Jesus life. Okay, a third

39:32

of Matthew, Mark and Luke are about the last

39:34

week of Jesus life. A half

39:37

of the Gospel of John is about the

39:39

last week of his life. Yes.

39:41

Yeah.

39:41

And and Lazarus,

39:43

you know, from John 11 on,

39:46

Lazarus is a big part of it. And his sisters,

39:48

too, you know, they're a big part of this,

39:51

you know, where does these where does Jesus stay?

39:53

And that's been my question when he when

39:55

Jesus was 12 years old and he's in the

39:57

temple and his family goes back and they

39:59

realize he's not there, where have I

40:02

ever asked you this? Where did Jesus sleep

40:04

those nights? Do you?

40:05

Yeah.

40:06

You know, the.

40:06

Bible doesn't say. I mean, you know, Bible,

40:09

does it say. But I think he probably

40:11

had they stay with relatives or you camp out.

40:13

Um, and, and you mentioned,

40:16

uh, the raising of Lazarus. There's a

40:18

kind of a new thing that I've just learned about.

40:20

And this isn't a biblical thing.

40:22

This comes from the Judaism of

40:25

first century French history, Judaism.

40:27

But there was a belief, and it came from the

40:29

Dead Sea Scrolls, that there were three

40:31

miracles that only the Messiah could do.

40:34

Uh, one of them was to raise someone who'd been dead

40:36

for four days. Uh, one of them

40:38

was to heal a birth defect.

40:40

Um, and one of them was to cleanse a leper,

40:43

cleansing a leper, and at one

40:45

point was looked upon as a greater miracle

40:47

than raising the dead, because leprosy was sort

40:49

of this living death.

40:52

You know, the thing.

40:53

That strikes me just

40:55

as this overview and it's it's all

40:58

through the ministry of Jesus. But

41:00

the patience that he had

41:02

with the knuckleheads, you know, with the

41:04

disciples that are around him, even

41:06

in that at that last supper, they're

41:08

arguing with each other, who's, you know, who's

41:10

going to be great, the.

41:11

Greatest, you know, and it's like,

41:13

come on, guys, can you not?

41:15

Um, but Jesus wasn't that way with

41:17

them. He was allowing

41:20

them to come to full faith in

41:23

him as a process. It

41:25

seems like he was okay

41:27

with their inability to

41:29

to just snap their fingers and,

41:31

you know, be fully devoted followers

41:34

immediately.

41:35

Well, Hebrews says, the book of Hebrews

41:37

says, you know, he understands our weakness

41:39

because he you know, he kind of participated

41:42

in those things. So where you and I

41:44

look at the disciples and say, what idiots

41:46

I think Jesus looked at at their

41:48

at their faults in a more sympathetic

41:50

way. Um, you

41:53

know, how in the world could they have been

41:55

able to conceive what was about to happen?

41:57

Right. And so, yeah, they're jockeying for position.

42:00

Judas is sitting there. He's got the money in his

42:02

pocket. You've already got.

42:03

The you think he's got the.

42:05

Pieces of silver as he's.

42:06

As he's.

42:07

Having his feet washed.

42:09

I absolutely do. I think he's got the money

42:11

in his pocket. And, uh, and

42:13

the disciples are arguing about who's the greatest.

42:15

And again, you and I think, you

42:17

know what idiots I think Jesus is saying.

42:20

You know, I think he's sympathetic. He

42:22

he he understands our weakness.

42:24

Right. Um, the

42:27

people that he seems to not have

42:29

much of that kind of sympathy

42:31

for the Pharisees. I mean, he'll get mad at the Pharisees

42:33

and call them brood of vipers and that

42:36

sort of thing. But his disciples, you

42:38

know, again, Hebrews says he knows our weakness,

42:40

right? He's he, he he

42:42

struggled with those kinds of, uh, those

42:45

kinds of feelings himself as a human. Except

42:47

he never sinned. Right.

42:50

So what do you say to the person who's listening?

42:52

It's like I like I like your music,

42:54

Michael. And I like, like to hear you talk. But

42:56

this whole thing about Jesus, you know, it's nice

42:58

that you built your life on a fable

43:00

like this. Um, that's

43:03

another thing that I love. And we'll talk about

43:05

this on Thursday. If I'm writing

43:07

this and I'm trying to make Jesus

43:10

who I want him to be, I'm

43:12

not going to I'm not going to talk about what happened.

43:14

I'm not going to talk about the agony in the garden.

43:16

You know, I'm going to talk about him being William

43:18

Wallace, and he's going to go after the King, you know,

43:20

doing all that stuff. It's like, no, right. He's

43:22

showing his humanity as sweat

43:25

drops of blood. So what do you say to the

43:27

person who says, yeah, this

43:29

is these are great stories, but they're

43:31

obviously it's a myth and

43:34

this is not reality. What

43:36

do you say to that person?

43:37

Well, I think when you're in that sort

43:39

of, um, kind

43:42

of unbelieving sort of vein,

43:44

I don't think, um,

43:46

you know, I think the

43:49

Lord's going to wait until the time where you're more receptive,

43:51

but then when you are, uh, receptive

43:54

to the truth, uh, you come

43:56

to understand in, in your

43:58

heart the way God is, the way you've

44:00

been created, however you want to dance

44:02

around your creation. Of course, we believe that God

44:05

created us, but he created us for relationship.

44:07

He created us to know him and

44:10

and people who who don't know

44:12

him. I think even really hardened

44:14

people, they feel that that

44:17

void, that separation and

44:19

and God has made it possible

44:22

for us to be in relationship with him

44:24

only through relationship with

44:26

Jesus. And that's what we're all celebrating

44:28

this week. Jesus, the Lamb of God

44:31

who gave his life for the world. And

44:33

you. You can actually know him.

44:36

He can live in you.

44:39

And there are literally billions,

44:41

millions, if not billions of Christians

44:44

in the world, uh, that will,

44:46

uh, affirm this. Some of the greatest

44:49

minds that have ever lived, the C.S. Lewis

44:51

is. And people like that, uh, will

44:53

affirm this as well. So at

44:55

the very least, it's worth it's

44:57

worth you taking a

45:00

serious, honest look

45:02

into and not not a, not

45:04

an unbelieving, uh, stance

45:06

towards.

45:08

And most religions are, are

45:10

us trying to be good enough to be

45:12

accepted? Christianity

45:14

says you're not good

45:17

enough. We are all sinful.

45:19

We needed a spotless

45:21

Son of God, a spotless, unblemished

45:24

lamb to die in

45:26

our. To take our punishment

45:28

so that we could not only be then

45:31

forgiven, but then the righteousness

45:33

of Jesus is given to us.

45:35

And that's what you meant. You know, living in you

45:38

we have the righteousness of Christ

45:40

on us, in us.

45:42

And that's good news, isn't

45:44

it? Yeah.

45:45

God loves each one of us as if there was only

45:48

one of us to love.

45:51

Well, I'm glad that he's sovereign over

45:53

that little donkey and that upper

45:55

room and all of

45:57

those details. You know you are

45:59

important to God as you listen to us here

46:01

today. Michael, always great to talk

46:03

with you. Thank you for coming out of retirement again.

46:05

You come back again real soon, okay.

46:08

Thanks, brother. God bless you.

46:09

The book The Nazarene is our featured

46:12

resource. If you go to Chris Fabri Live or

46:14

click through today's information. Always

46:16

enjoy. I like talking about Jesus.

46:19

Period. Like talking about the the Bible,

46:21

the Gospels. We're going to do that again

46:24

with a friend of mine, Robert Warmoth, who's going

46:26

to come along tomorrow here during

46:28

Holy Week. We're going to talk about Gethsemane

46:30

on Thursday with two

46:32

friends. And then on Friday,

46:35

oh, the poetry of redemption.

46:37

You have to hear our conversation for

46:40

that day on that program. Chris Fabry

46:42

Live is production of Moody Radio,

46:44

a ministry of Moody Bible Institute

46:46

online. Chris Fabry live. Org.