0:04

Welcome

0:04

to A citations needed news

0:06

brief. I am Mima Shirazi. I'm Adam

0:08

Johnson. We do these news reaves in between

0:10

our regularly scheduled episode and

0:12

thank you for joining us today. Today, we're

0:14

gonna be talking about, I don't

0:16

know, Adam, the rail strike and

0:18

the Biden administration's response

0:20

to this Biden incidentally, the

0:22

so called most pro labor president

0:24

that we've had. And we have with us

0:27

on today's news brief to illustrious

0:30

guests, none better to talk

0:32

to about this. We are joined by Mel Buren

0:35

Research educator journalist and an editor

0:37

at the real news network, Mel is

0:39

currently writing a book on radical media

0:41

for or books. And we are also joined

0:44

by friend of the show and frequent guests

0:46

are, I don't know, dare I say, potentially

0:49

senior labor correspondent, Max Alvarez

0:52

editor in chief of the real

0:54

news network, a former editor at the chronicle

0:57

review and host of the working people podcast

0:59

His book, The Work of Living, was published

1:01

by order books earlier just this

1:03

year. Mel and Max, thank you so much for

1:06

joining us today on citations needed. Thanks

1:08

for having us. Thanks so much for having us guys.

1:10

Alright. So there's a lot to unpack here.

1:12

I wanna sort of begin by recording

1:14

this on the evening of Tuesday.

1:17

November twenty ninth. So some of this may be slightly

1:19

out of date just when the qualifier there. But as it stands

1:21

now, can you guys give us a sense

1:23

if you could just go to lay around work of what happened.

1:25

You don't need to get into too much weeds, but sort

1:27

of explain how the negotiations took

1:29

place over the summer and fall, what

1:32

the union members voted on and what

1:34

the Biden administration is

1:36

doing in concert with both Republicans

1:38

and Democrats in concert to effectively

1:41

intervene in this lay dispute on behalf of management.

1:43

Can you kind of lay the groundwork before we start for

1:45

those who may not be familiar?

1:46

Just for, I guess, the context we can

1:48

just I do a brief overview of what happened

1:51

over the summer. How

1:53

do we do this? I mean, this has been a

1:55

knock down drag out contract fight been happening

1:57

over the last almost three years

1:59

now. The rail workers have been working

2:02

without contract since twenty twenty. negotiations,

2:05

fits and starts for the last two years,

2:08

and then came to a head this summer when

2:10

negotiations came to an impasse and

2:12

sort of the provisions the Railway Labor

2:14

Act, which govern how these contracts

2:17

are implemented and what

2:19

happens when you have stalemate

2:21

like we had this summer sort of kicked into

2:24

place. And in terms of, like,

2:26

the sort of boxes that were checked,

2:28

a mediation board said that they could

2:30

not break this stealmate. It went to

2:32

the president's office who appointed a

2:34

presidential emergency board to

2:37

hear both sides of this contract

2:39

fight between the rail carriers of

2:41

these class one freight

2:43

railroads who run millions of dollars

2:45

in freight every year. And twelve

2:48

separate unions who all kind of

2:50

fill in specific positions both

2:53

on the trains and on the railroads themselves.

2:55

And They heard

2:57

both sides. They put some recommendations

2:59

together. The rail unions

3:02

unilaterally rejected most

3:04

of them. And then

3:06

it came to we almost had a real

3:08

shutdown in September. We were

3:10

I think we were literally at the eleventh hour.

3:12

I think we are maybe twelve hours away from the

3:14

deadline when labor

3:16

secretary Marty Walsh stepped in and

3:19

pushed the two sides back to the table

3:21

and they came together with a tentative

3:23

agreement that then went back to the unions

3:25

for ratification. Eight

3:28

of the twelve unions ratified

3:30

this agreement and four

3:32

did not. And that sort of sent

3:34

people back to the bargaining table

3:37

just in the last couple of weeks.

3:40

MAX can kind of give you a really good overview

3:42

of the conditions on the railroads and

3:44

what really was at stake in terms of what

3:46

they were talking about at the table and why

3:49

this is so

3:50

important. Yeah. So,

3:53

you know, was joking with you guys before we hit

3:55

the recording button that, you know,

3:57

please stop me. if need be because

3:59

I feel like anyone who's heard

4:01

me or Mel talk about

4:04

the crisis on the nation's freight

4:06

rail system which we've been covering

4:08

extensively at the real news

4:10

all year even though mainstream media

4:12

has only taken an interest in it when we

4:14

are literally at the precipice of potential

4:17

rail shut down. But

4:19

every time that Mel and I have come on a

4:21

show or done live stream or anything

4:23

like that, I feel like I just start,

4:25

and Mel just starts, like, spewing a bunch

4:27

of railroad facts because there's so much

4:29

context to understand here which

4:31

the corporate media does not give, and Mel and I

4:33

are trying to give in, you know,

4:35

a sort of a Spark Notes version.

4:37

So just to kind of pick up what

4:39

Mel was saying. The main thing that everyone

4:41

listening to this needs to understand, if

4:43

you don't already, is that labor

4:46

relations on the railroads

4:48

are not governed by the

4:50

National Labor Relations Act like most

4:52

jobs are, they are, in fact,

4:54

governed by the Railway Labor Act,

4:56

as Mel mentioned. a,

4:58

statute a system of laws

5:00

that was essentially put in

5:02

place in the nineteen twenties

5:05

after decades of seismic

5:07

railroad strikes in this country

5:09

that showed the capitalist class

5:11

just how much power workers on

5:13

the railroads have to bring

5:15

the economy to its knees, which they

5:17

did in the late eighteen seventies.

5:19

There was the pullman strike. There was the great

5:21

strike in the early twentieth

5:23

century as well. So that is why

5:26

we have the Railway Labor Act. That is

5:28

why Mel is walking

5:30

through, like, this rub Goldberg

5:32

system of stages

5:35

that these negotiations have to go

5:37

through before a strike initiated

5:40

by the twelve unions representing

5:42

workers on the freight railroad system or

5:44

a lockout initiated by the rail

5:46

carriers, i. e. the companies that

5:48

own the Class one freight rails

5:51

all of the things that Mel described are

5:53

baked into the Railway Labor Act. Right?

5:55

So if the negotiations do

5:57

reach an impasse, that's when you get the

5:59

Federal Mediation Board. The mayor of Federal

6:01

Mediation Board couldn't get the two sides to

6:03

agree, so it officially declared

6:05

an impasse. That's when the next thing kicks

6:07

in the presidential emergency board

6:09

that she mentioned that Biden appointed, they

6:12

assessed the two sides proposals and

6:14

the contract negotiations They

6:16

offered their recommendations for a framework

6:18

for a brokered agreement in August. The

6:20

rail carriers immediately enthusiastically

6:23

endorsed that report

6:25

those recommendations. That should tell you a

6:27

little bit about what was in those recommendations,

6:29

and the rail unions had lots of

6:31

misgivings. So that triggered a

6:33

thirty day cooling off period. There have been a

6:35

lot of these quote unquote cooling off periods.

6:37

These are also provisions baked into

6:39

the Railway Labor Act that are meant

6:41

to do what they sound like. get

6:43

people to kind of cool off, to

6:45

break the sort of built up frustration

6:48

and momentum, to try to give people

6:50

a chance to come back to the bargaining table some

6:52

concessions yada yada yada. So

6:54

the strike slash lockout

6:56

cliff that we were approaching in September

6:59

was the official end of the thirty day cooling

7:01

off period after Biden's

7:03

presidential emergency board officially released

7:06

its recommendations in August.

7:08

Then, as Mel said, a number of

7:10

the craft unions, of

7:12

course, we know that the railroads are very

7:14

complex system. It's not just

7:16

engineers, and conductors who

7:18

make up the entire railroad labor force,

7:21

there are a lot of different types of workers doing a

7:23

lot of essential work there signal

7:25

men. There are machinist working

7:27

in the yard, the machine yard, repairing

7:29

engines, and so on, and stuff like that.

7:31

there are dispatchers, right,

7:33

who are, you know, communicating with the folks on

7:35

the train, so on and so forth. So there's a lot

7:37

of different people who work

7:39

on the railroads. And there

7:41

is a whole sort of bizarre craft

7:44

union system where you have twelve separate

7:46

unions And if any one of them in

7:48

a situation like this rejects

7:50

the tentative a contract, tentative agreement

7:52

and decides to go on strike, that could

7:54

in effect trigger a national rail shutdown

7:56

because the other unions have provisions in

7:58

their contracts to not cross the

8:00

picket line. So it's really a if one

8:02

goes we all go kind of thing. And

8:04

that's the process that we've been in the past

8:06

couple months where unions

8:08

have been taking the deal that

8:10

was hashed out behind closed doors by,

8:13

you know, secretary of Labor Marty Walsh,

8:15

the rail carriers, the rail union

8:17

leadership, not the rail union membership.

8:20

That was in September. a number

8:22

of the unions voted it down,

8:24

and so there was, like, an extension of

8:26

negotiation periods, like,

8:28

basic likely to get past the midterms. We

8:30

all know what the purpose of that was because

8:32

a rail shut down would look very bad

8:34

for, you know, democrats going into the

8:36

midterms yada yada yada. So the deadline we are

8:38

approaching, the December ninth deadline would

8:40

have been the end of that

8:42

kind of, you know, extended negotiation

8:45

period. And now, the news that

8:47

everyone's talking about this week is that

8:49

president Joe Biden, the quote unquote,

8:51

most pro union president you're

8:53

ever gonna see in American history? And

8:55

a railroad rider himself. And a

8:59

Exactly. Frequent railroad rider

9:01

Joseph Biden has come out and

9:03

said, now that the unions have

9:05

finally the union membership, the rank and

9:07

file who have the final say or should have the

9:09

final say on all of this. now that they finally

9:11

had their say and a critical mass of

9:13

them representing a majority of workers

9:15

of the, like, hundred and, you know,

9:18

fifteen thousand or so

9:20

workers involved in this mess. A

9:22

majority of them have voted this tentative

9:24

agreement down. They finally had their

9:26

say, then Joseph Biden comes

9:28

in and says shut the fuck up. I'm gonna tell

9:30

Congress to issue a back to work

9:32

order and essentially ram a

9:34

deal down your throats. This

9:36

has all been one big show to make you

9:38

feel like you have a voice, but we were pulling the

9:40

strings all along. And as we

9:42

speak right now on Tuesday, November

9:44

twenty ninth, it looks like that is what

9:46

Congress is gonna do. The only question is, are

9:48

they gonna try to shoehorn

9:50

in some additional provisions to

9:52

give these poor workers, some

9:54

fucking paid sick days? Are they at least

9:56

gonna get that? Or are they just gonna

9:58

ram through the deal that was reached

9:59

behind closed doors in September? So

10:02

we'll get to the congressional for want of

10:04

a better term, say, ops in a second. That

10:06

Democrats appear to be running later,

10:09

and wanna sort of break this conversation into three parts.

10:11

First part, which you've just sort

10:13

of began touching on, which was the Biden and

10:15

Pelosi's role in taking the side of

10:17

capital, And then the second part is the

10:19

media coverage of that. Now

10:21

people are almost all the headlines and all the

10:23

sort of lead lines with some exceptions

10:25

like democracy now and the

10:27

real news, which can be found at finer websites

10:29

everywhere, are framing this as what it

10:31

ought to be framed as, which is

10:34

Biden, Pelosi, democrats, and Republicans

10:36

which is I think what it's gonna end up being, are

10:38

intervening on the side of capital to force

10:40

workers to work against the terms that they

10:42

themselves voted on. which again, as you

10:44

mentioned, why have a vote if the vote's just gonna be

10:46

nullified anyway? Right? It's the definition of a

10:48

potemkin democracy. But they're

10:50

framing it as Biden and

10:53

congressional democrats are attempting to quote

10:55

unquote, avert or prevent a strike.

10:57

This is kind of this it's really kind of

10:59

officer involved shooting language where it sort of sounds benign. because it seems

11:01

like Biden just got the, you know,

11:03

daddy warbucks with the monocle in a room with

11:05

Joe's rail worker, and they sat down and they hatched

11:07

out their different they came to terms.

11:09

That's not about what's happening. They're gonna prevent the

11:11

bad thing from happening, which makes

11:13

him

11:13

the good guy. They headed it off.

11:15

Yeah. They headed it off at the past. Right? Right.

11:17

Hounded it off as a good one too. Secretary of

11:19

Transportation P Buttigieg, Walsh, the

11:21

White House's own language keeps using this

11:23

language of We're going to

11:25

support the tentative agreement that was

11:27

negotiated in good faith. But as you know, this was

11:29

prior to the actual vote. These are democratic

11:32

processes. And of course, if you just sort

11:34

of ignore the vote again, why have

11:36

one in the first place? And to that point, I think,

11:38

Adam, let's just let's just read some

11:40

of these headlines so we can really talk about

11:42

that. NBC News said Biden

11:44

urges congress to pass legislation to

11:46

avert nationwide rail

11:48

strike. You had Reuters saying US

11:51

House to vote Wednesday to block

11:53

rail strike. You had the Guardian

11:55

saying, quote, Congress to take

11:57

up Bill to avert rail

11:59

strike as Biden and unions clash.

12:01

Oh, they're clashing. That's a good one. That

12:03

gets back to our clashing episodes. And

12:06

then, of course, you have the New York Times

12:08

chiming in with, quote,

12:10

congressional leaders say they will act

12:12

to prevent rail strike. Now

12:14

block is slightly more accurate because it at least shows

12:16

that they're preventing workers from

12:18

exercising their legal sort of

12:20

moral duty to withhold labor, but even

12:22

that sort of has this very kind of responsibility

12:25

flattening element to it that this is actually an intervention in

12:27

the side of management. Can you comment on that framing and

12:29

how it's kind of all happen so

12:31

fast. It seems like there isn't really a lot of pushback

12:33

on this idea that this is some anodyne

12:35

negotiated settlement that the union leaders

12:37

agreed to. Well, I

12:38

think the more accurate framing, right, is

12:41

they intervene to break the

12:43

strike preemptively ahead of the strike

12:45

deadline. Didn't even really let them get it off the

12:47

ground. Right. It's particularly interesting

12:49

because, you know, media has a very

12:51

short memory. And the Biden

12:53

administration took a victory lap after

12:55

they pushed through this tentative

12:57

agreement and got both sides to agree to send it back

12:59

to their membership. This was

13:01

this huge win to avert

13:04

the strike the potential of a

13:06

shutdown back in September, so we're

13:08

seeing a lot of the same language in its

13:10

framing. And of course, just

13:12

like last time, as Max and I both

13:14

commented on various interviews that we did

13:16

with a lot of folks who

13:18

suddenly cared. It's about this

13:20

sort of economic issues

13:22

at play here, billions of dollars will

13:24

be lost. The economy will

13:26

be crippled. It's also a Christmas

13:28

story. It's a Christmas story.

13:29

Right. Just ahead of Christmas, this is

13:31

you know, you're gonna lose out on fuel and

13:34

grains gonna rot in the silos and all

13:36

of these things. Right? It's

13:38

completely devoid of the humanity

13:40

behind The

13:42

supply chain, the keeps the supply chain

13:44

running. It's completely devoid of any

13:46

sort of human element about

13:48

what the workforce is going through.

13:50

And if it's even mentioned

13:52

at all, it takes to the

13:54

bottom of most of these articles to

13:56

draw attention to the

13:58

issues at play and the reasons why we

13:59

got to this place in the first place.

14:02

And

14:02

it's all this deliberate framing that

14:04

completely removes the human element, creates

14:07

this space for the Biden administration is

14:10

coming in, sliding in at the last minute

14:12

to, you know, take yet another

14:14

tree lap saying, you know, we are doing

14:16

this because the economy is gonna be

14:18

fucked. And look at us, we're saving

14:20

the day. And it sucks

14:22

because I sent Adam the sort

14:24

of master cut of CNN coverage

14:26

today. You

14:26

wanna listen to that real quick and respond to it?

14:29

Yeah. I would love to. Just a warning

14:31

to listeners, you're gonna get very

14:33

mad. Yes. This was actually put

14:35

together and tweeted out by Steve Morris

14:37

senior political reporter at the

14:39

recount. Let's hear

14:41

this nightmare now.

14:43

A strike is one of the

14:45

most disruptive and expensive

14:47

things that can happen to an economy A

14:49

real shutdown or

14:50

strike would disrupt

14:51

supply chains. A strike means food

14:54

prices could skyrocket. Many

14:55

experts are saying would be an economic

14:57

catastrophe. That could mean a big

14:59

shortage and massive price hikes even

15:01

gas prices could increase. And it

15:03

also could cost the economy a billion

15:05

dollars within the first week. That would cripple

15:07

the

15:07

economy. I'm not setting aside the concerns of

15:10

your members, but you and member is

15:12

willing to stop the rails in

15:14

effect and and accept

15:16

those costs to the US economy? Do believe

15:18

a strike is worth it if it

15:21

cripples the US economy and costs up

15:23

to two billion dollars a day. More than two

15:25

billion dollars per day. Is it

15:27

worth it? And on top top of all of

15:29

that, the holidays are right around the corner. So a

15:31

little less than a month, right, before Christmas

15:33

here. Especially, right, before the holidays.

15:35

President five warning. If

15:36

that happened, it would devastate

15:39

the economy if we had a strike like that. So

15:40

joining me now to talk about this and a lot more is

15:43

Bank of America, Sprint Worahan,

15:45

Chairman

15:45

and CEO, one of the biggest banks in

15:47

the world. So

15:48

yeah. So here you have The best part

15:51

is throwing to the Bank of America.

15:53

Yeah. So this is like the national impound

15:55

cover from nineteen seventy three where they have the guns

15:57

of the dog's head saying, but if you don't buy this magazine,

15:59

we're gonna kill this dog. Right? Like, why

16:01

do the greedy rail workers want little

16:03

Jimmy to not have

16:05

Christmas gifts, this president, while he's in Saint

16:07

Jude's hospital, on life support.

16:09

Right. Jimmy needs his head's truck in

16:11

BBA. The

16:11

framing is infuriating. Right? You I believe that's

16:14

the Blet, president, I think the person

16:16

that they're interviewing there who's been sort of

16:18

a public face of these

16:20

negotiations. Why

16:21

would you cripple the economy personally.

16:24

Right. It's like

16:24

is a strike worth it if you're

16:26

gonna bring the economy to its needs? And it's

16:28

like, well, first off, that is exactly

16:30

the reason why would withhold your

16:32

labor because it is the only

16:34

weapon you have against --

16:35

Literally, the only weapon. -- against a juggernaut

16:37

life. Other than armed rebellion, it's the

16:39

only weapon Right.

16:40

Against what is essentially

16:42

a council of monopolies, these

16:44

billionaires have all decided on their

16:46

side that they are gonna work

16:48

together to essentially keep hold of

16:50

their own turf and make sure that no one else

16:52

can edge in. It's not like people are building or

16:54

buying more rail. You know what I mean?

16:56

They have control of this. And

16:58

this workforce is

17:00

consistently being run into the ground,

17:02

have been, for years,

17:04

record numbers of people are quitting because

17:06

they just can't do anymore and it's

17:08

the choice between getting cancer

17:11

treatment or watching their children grow

17:13

up or spending the rest of their lives or

17:15

dying on the rails. They just don't wanna make that

17:17

choice anymore. This is the

17:19

important piece here. And of course, the

17:21

media, corporate media, spends

17:24

its time, villainizing workers

17:27

who are very rightly in

17:29

my DMs, in Max's DMs, in everyone

17:31

else who been talking to the rank and file in the

17:33

last couple of days feeling very

17:36

betrayed by the Biden administration and

17:38

the sort of propaganda wing

17:40

that is corporate media in this country

17:42

are eating the shit up

17:44

and just throwing it back in the

17:46

workers face constantly. It's very

17:48

deliberate. Right. And

17:50

then,

17:50

of course, it's never incumbent upon the

17:52

rail road management and billing

17:54

our owners, billing our companies

17:57

to be the ones who

17:58

can see because the main sticking point, you're one of

17:59

the main sticking points. I know there are others, but the

18:02

primary one that keeps coming up is this idea of paid sick

18:04

leave, which sounds because they don't have any they have zero paid

18:06

sick leave. and it sounds

18:08

extremely reasonable to the to the

18:10

average person. And

18:12

the railroad companies are

18:14

stubbornly sticking to their guns zero

18:16

paid sick leave. And again,

18:18

the framing is almost never with very

18:20

rare exception, but almost never, why

18:23

are these greedy corporations not

18:25

just conceding on paid sick leave, why

18:27

would they destroy the economy because

18:29

they wanna prevent people from having

18:31

paid sick It's never that framing. It's why are

18:33

the people seeking paid sick leave want to torpedo

18:35

the economy by withholding their labor until they

18:37

get the thing that they want and

18:40

that is of course never ever how

18:42

it's framed. It is always incumbent upon

18:44

the striker to

18:46

concede to their own lack of dignity

18:48

and basic demands. Right. The

18:50

Robert Barron's are not seen as holding the

18:53

economy hostage. Right. Never. So

18:55

alright. I'm gonna hop in here because

18:57

I have a lot of

19:00

thoughts. I'm

19:00

very angry and I'm

19:02

gonna try to focus this and

19:04

hit all these points.

19:07

So the thing I wanna say

19:09

upfront, right,

19:09

is that covering this

19:11

story. Right? Covering the crisis on the

19:14

railroads as Mel and I have

19:16

done at the real news over the

19:18

past year. has

19:20

been a truly gross

19:23

object lesson in

19:25

the role that corporate media

19:27

play. in laundering corporate

19:29

malfeasance and in fact helping

19:31

to facilitate ongoing

19:34

corporate plunder. As clip

19:36

that we just played is that's like a

19:38

perfect example of it.

19:40

But I do wanna just note one more kind

19:42

of preamble here like

19:44

Mel was saying, because this undergirds

19:46

everything. because what are we talking about

19:48

here? Like the coverage that Mel and I have been

19:50

doing all year is primarily long

19:53

extended interviews with workers

19:55

trying to kind of like build

19:57

the narrative about this crisis from

19:59

the grassroots up. from the voices

20:01

of the people who actually making the railroads run.

20:04

That's not a very sexy thing to do.

20:06

It's been ignored by most other

20:08

media outlets and then when people started

20:10

taking an interest in it, a lot of those

20:12

mainstream media outlets started

20:14

basically piggybacking off of our reporting,

20:16

finding contacts through our reporting,

20:18

taking arguments through our reporting, and never sighting

20:20

us at all. Right? But what we hope

20:22

we have offered people is

20:24

a living our archive of the voices of

20:26

the folks who are being run into the

20:29

ground by corporate greed

20:31

on the freight railroad system. we

20:33

are talking about a beleaguered workforce that has

20:35

been slashed dramatically over the

20:38

past forty years. The railroads

20:40

used to have over five hundred thousand

20:43

workers working on them in nineteen

20:45

eighty. And over the past four decades,

20:47

they have slashed and burned and

20:49

gutted that workforce down to around a

20:51

hundred and thirty. And now

20:53

the railroads are complaining about

20:55

like a labor shortage and they can't hire enough

20:57

people. Motherfucker, The

20:59

rail carriers the seven main rail

21:01

carriers have collectively laid

21:03

off or furloughed or eliminated

21:05

over thirty percent of their collective work

21:07

for since two thousand fifteen alone. This

21:09

wasn't COVID. Yeah. This is a deliberate

21:12

corporate policy that

21:14

railroaders called the cult of the operating ratio.

21:16

This is what happens when you financialize

21:18

an essential infrastructural system

21:20

like the railroads and turn it into just

21:22

a sort of money making scheme

21:25

and that's what they people like Warren

21:27

Buffett have done in spades.

21:29

Right? They have cut the workforce. They piled

21:31

more work onto fewer work they've made the trains longer and

21:33

more dangerous and more unwieldy with

21:35

fewer people operating them, which puts all

21:37

of us at risk. You see stories

21:39

of derailments with talks

21:42

chemicals leaking out of these trains,

21:44

these stories are happening all around you.

21:46

So the this this is where I wanted to get.

21:49

Right? this is what what is really really pissing

21:51

me off about all this just like it was

21:53

pissing me off in September.

21:55

And I feel like I've been struggling

21:57

to come up with some sort

21:59

of metaphor for this infuriating

22:01

symptom of our diseased discourse,

22:03

but sadly, I don't have one yet.

22:05

But the symptom that I'm about is

22:07

what we're witnessing this week. The

22:09

vast majority of people who

22:12

didn't know or care about this

22:14

problem until yesterday. are

22:16

suddenly very freaked out

22:18

about a looming crisis on the

22:20

railroads that could happen as a

22:22

result of a rail road strike.

22:24

What is so baffling to me

22:26

and what is so sinister about

22:28

what president Biden and congress are

22:30

doing right now is that if you're

22:32

someone like that, if you're listening to this and you or

22:35

yourself are worried about what a rail strike could

22:37

do to the supply chain, to cost

22:39

of products, so forth. I got

22:41

news for you. The Biden

22:43

administration just rubber stamped the

22:45

plan of the very people who have

22:47

already been destroying the supply you

22:49

are already paying for what

22:51

they have done to the supply chain.

22:53

The crisis is already here. It

22:55

has been here just talk to anyone

22:58

working on the railroads. We

23:00

are, as I said, the the the staff

23:02

on the railroads, the people who actually make this

23:05

happen, have been just getting cut

23:07

left and right for years, which means that

23:09

you pile more work onto fewer workers, which

23:11

also means that you don't have reserve

23:14

workers to pick up, you know, shifts if

23:16

you need to mark off and take a day

23:18

off. That is why you have

23:20

companies like DNSF Railway or

23:22

Union Pacific instituting these

23:25

draconian attendance policies that

23:27

essentially make it impossible for workers to

23:29

take a day off without getting so severely

23:31

penalized or even fired so they

23:33

go to work sick. They'll have COVID. They still go

23:35

into work. Their kid may be sick. They still

23:37

go into because they are so severely

23:39

penalized, but that is the system that

23:41

these railroads have had to create to

23:43

essentially chain railroad

23:45

workers to their work stations

23:47

because they don't have any more reserve

23:49

workers to pick up the slack. They've cut they've cut

23:51

them all. Right? So this is a

23:53

manufactured problem on the

23:55

the side of the rail carriers and

23:57

yet we never talk about that. We never talk

23:59

about the fact that because of

24:01

these policies, that have, you know, not

24:03

only just dramatically slash the

24:05

workforce, but at the same time, these

24:07

rail carriers, you know,

24:09

have been, like, the quality service has been going

24:11

down. They've been jacking up prices on

24:13

shippers because a lot of shippers have to

24:15

use rail and no one's out here building new

24:17

rail lines So

24:19

again, you have, like, a a

24:21

mousetrap business where you can just,

24:23

like, kind of charge as much as you want

24:25

because people don't have no have no rails

24:27

to go. And those higher costs get pushed

24:29

onto you the consumer. And

24:31

so the and and all the

24:33

while, these comp corporations

24:35

that run the railroads are raking

24:37

in record profits. We're talking

24:39

billions and billions of dollars that they

24:41

are bragging about on earnings calls

24:44

every goddamn quarter. And yet,

24:46

we're looking around and talking about a

24:48

crisis that could happen if railroad

24:50

workers strike. And

24:52

everyone, including on CNN,

24:54

keeps sight this this fucking oh,

24:56

it could cost two billion dollars a day, up

24:58

to two billion dollars a day. Listen.

25:00

meta Meta,

25:01

I don't wanna hear one

25:03

more fucking pundits cite that,

25:05

you know, figure unless they

25:07

can even muster a guess

25:09

at how much the rail carriers have

25:11

cost the US economy by

25:13

gutting their workforce and running the remaining workers

25:15

into the ground, by investing

25:17

billions and billions of dollars

25:20

more in stock buybacks and shareholder

25:22

giveaways instead of rail

25:24

maintenance, and which means that you have more

25:26

dangerous railroads, more derailments, so on and

25:28

so forth. they have caused by

25:30

jacking up the prices on shippers

25:32

which are passed on to consumers yada

25:34

yada yada. So you are already

25:36

paying for a crisis that is

25:38

already here yet the greatest

25:40

trick I think that you can that

25:42

that the railcarriers ever polled

25:44

is convincing the

25:46

entire corporate media e show

25:48

system that they're somehow not

25:50

involved in this. Right? And you can see that in all

25:52

the covers. This is the last thing I'll say that I promise I'll

25:54

shut up. Because even in September, you saw

25:56

this and you saw But now, right, it's

25:58

e even in that clip, there was one

26:00

mention of a lockout. Everything else was

26:02

real strike. Real strike. What is a real

26:04

strike gonna do? Same thing

26:06

in September. there were a

26:08

few outlets that were at least being a

26:10

bit more careful of saying, like, it could be a rail

26:12

strike or it could be a rail lockout. But

26:14

for the most part, it's only ever talked

26:16

about as if this is a labor

26:18

problem, not something that the

26:20

rail carriers could actually do,

26:22

which they could. They could initiate a

26:24

lockout. And why wouldn't they be because if

26:26

they know that that triggers even a

26:28

a tremor in the supply

26:30

chain that spooks Congress, they're gonna get the

26:32

result that they're getting this week where Congress freaks out

26:34

enforces AAA subpar deal

26:36

down workers' throats. Well, they

26:38

already

26:38

started doing that back in September.

26:40

If you remember, Max, they

26:42

actually started instituting illegally ahead

26:45

of time, they started slowing down their

26:47

shipping and their freight. AMTrack

26:49

canceled its commuter service ahead

26:51

of this. Right? So they already

26:53

started instituting what was considered at the

26:55

time a soft lockout. And

26:58

Marty Walsh walks into that boardroom

27:00

and says, figure this shit out, and they

27:02

came out with a deal, like, ten hours

27:04

later,

27:04

you know. So you know,

27:05

they they hold this power

27:08

and the corporate media just runs

27:10

with

27:10

it every time. Every time. Yeah.

27:12

the rail workers had a hundred units of dignity and

27:15

material assets, and then the the owners

27:17

took away fifty of those units of

27:19

dignity and material assets and then

27:21

the oh, then the rail workers asked for sixty,

27:23

and then they're viewed as being greedy. They're viewed

27:25

as being sort of

27:27

holding the country hostage. And

27:29

this is typically have these things work because it's it's always an issue of

27:31

first blood. It's always an issue of responsibility. And

27:33

when you put the when you make the

27:35

responsibility for quote unquote shutting

27:37

down the economy, as incumbent

27:39

upon that, you know, labor, you

27:41

necessarily get the the public on the side of

27:43

management, which of course is the is the goal. So I

27:45

wanna I wanna if you if you that was a

27:47

wonderful explanation guys. Thank you

27:49

so much. I wanna now pivot to the to the political response

27:52

because, you know, we we we try

27:54

to be measured. We try to be fair. I I think

27:56

we've done a really good job over the

27:58

last five, six show not saying

28:00

all parties are the same or whatever. I think that

28:02

kind of commentary can be fair fairly

28:05

glib, and we try to criticize

28:07

Democrats aggressively and and honestly

28:10

where where it's needed. We try to intervene where it's

28:12

needed. This seems like a case

28:14

where Joe Biden is pretty

28:16

cynically operating on behalf

28:18

of capital to discipline labor in

28:20

a pretty explicit way in a way that

28:22

is it it is contra to

28:25

the wishes of the workers. And

28:29

in doing so, he has

28:31

he has taken

28:34

aside for which there there is a very

28:36

clear class divide, and I think it's

28:38

important that we we talk about how this

28:40

is gonna play out tomorrow. So

28:42

what appears to happen is that Congress is

28:44

now some some progressives in congress,

28:47

AOC, Bernie Sanders, the kind of usual

28:49

suspects, have said they're not gonna

28:51

support a bill that would force

28:53

them back to work. without

28:55

some kind of concessions from the side of the

28:58

unions. Now they say, as this

29:00

broke about an hour and a half, two hours ago, is

29:02

that they're gonna split it into two bills. they're

29:04

gonna vote to to force workers

29:06

back to to work. And then the second

29:08

bill is going to be this this mysterious bill

29:11

that where they're gonna vote for paid

29:13

sick leave. Now call me cynical,

29:15

but there is literally no reason to

29:17

split the bill other

29:19

than to make it so the second part,

29:21

the good part, never happens and,

29:24

b, you lose all your leverage for

29:26

the first part. Yeah. It's the it's the

29:28

infrastructure move. It's the infrastructure move. Right? The

29:30

infrastructure shuffle. tell

29:32

me I'm being overly cynical. Tell me that this

29:34

is not a transparent attempt to to to to kill

29:36

any paid sick leave, which again, it's it's really

29:38

really shouldn't be congress' job to do that anyway because there

29:40

there are other considerations, as you know, as well.

29:42

But just and assuming for a second that the ceiling

29:45

is the seven days of paid

29:47

sick leave, this is

29:49

never going to happen. Right? This is this is we

29:51

vote for the first thing to quote unquote avert the strike,

29:53

which is to say disciplined labor to do what

29:55

we need them to do and not all allow them

29:57

to withdraw their labor, EG, the one thing they

29:59

can actually the the actual agency they have.

30:02

Right? because, again, separate from armed

30:04

revolt withholding labor is all

30:06

labor The only

30:08

other option being asking nicely,

30:10

which has a historically has a zero percent

30:12

success rate.

30:14

pleased more porridge. Right? That doesn't really work

30:16

because then they go, I don't think so.

30:18

So if you can't tell us

30:20

about this the the sort of

30:22

how this may play out tomorrow, and I know we're

30:25

speculating. But it seems like we're gonna have this

30:27

vote. And either tomorrow or the

30:29

next day, and they're gonna force

30:31

them back to work and the other bill is

30:33

gonna be separate and is sort of probably not gonna

30:35

go anywhere. Is that is that overly cynical

30:37

guys. I don't think so. It makes no

30:38

sense to me, but at the same time,

30:40

if you attach the two, then you run the

30:43

risk of not being able to

30:45

pass the TA at all.

30:47

Right? And for Democrats

30:49

who really don't want that strike,

30:51

to happen or a lockout to happen or a

30:53

shutdown to happen. This is the

30:56

the way that I think that they are thinking that

30:58

they can do this. attack on the extra vote

31:00

because you know that there are some Democrats

31:02

who would not vote for the TA if

31:04

there wasn't at least a chance to push through

31:06

the sick leave because they've said

31:08

so publicly. Some Republicans, including

31:10

Marco Rubio, has also said that he wouldn't vote

31:12

for a TA unless there was

31:14

more considerations given to what the

31:16

workers are asking for. which is a

31:18

very transparent move on the part of the GOP who

31:20

are hoping to, you know,

31:23

court betrayed dem

31:25

voters. Yep. And then do absolutely

31:27

fuck all for for them for the next three hundred

31:29

and sixty four and a half days. You know what

31:31

I mean? It's cynical and fake, but Biden

31:33

handed to him? Exactly.

31:34

This was he could've knocked us out

31:36

of the park. He really could have.

31:39

And, you know, I think what we're

31:41

gonna see is

31:43

just this blowing up completely.

31:45

You know? And I was talking

31:47

to another media

31:50

person. He's in a group chat that I'm

31:52

in, and He had an interesting insight that

31:54

by splitting the vote, Pelosi

31:56

can kind of whip

31:59

that seven days of paid sick leave and have it

32:01

pass the house and then expect

32:03

it to die in the senate. So it's not

32:05

gonna pass. Right.

32:05

They can blame the senate.

32:07

that's the goal.

32:08

Again, as we always fucking

32:11

see, you know, labor

32:13

and social movements are now be you know,

32:15

are used as a bargaining chip or

32:17

a cudgel in, you know,

32:19

the not so complex when you

32:21

think about it, sort of machinations

32:23

of Congress. Right? Where certain things happen

32:25

and you can just use that. For

32:28

what? It's just it sucks. It

32:30

sucks that this is the way that we it's so

32:32

transparent.

32:32

because literally, why else would you split it other

32:35

than to make sure it dies? Like, that there's

32:37

there's literally no other reason to do it

32:39

other than to other than

32:41

to create a a theater where

32:44

Congress or members of Congress can kind of vote for it to show

32:46

nominal support, but not

32:48

actually have it have any teeth. Like, well, who goes you

32:50

don't go into negotiation taking your single piece

32:53

of leverage and then say, here, please take my leverage. Now

32:55

let's negotiate motherfucker. Well, I'm like,

32:57

that's I mean, I think it's a yeah.

33:00

Really important point because I want

33:02

people to consider the

33:05

larger implications of this.

33:07

Right? Like, I

33:09

have extended, you

33:11

know, interview segment on breaking

33:13

points coming out this week with two

33:15

Starbucks workers where we talk about the fact that

33:17

it's like, look, you may not think that

33:19

Starbucks workers are quote unquote real

33:22

workers because they're Gen Z,

33:24

because they're women, they're queer, they're non

33:26

binary, or because their service

33:28

work but I you that if

33:30

even if you work in like AAA burly

33:32

manly man industry, your boss

33:35

is looking at what Starbucks is doing. And if they get

33:37

away with their scorched

33:39

earth flagrantly breaking

33:41

the law, violating workers' lot

33:44

rights to squash this unionization effort.

33:46

If they succeed in doing that,

33:48

that will continue to be the playbook

33:50

for every employer in this

33:53

goddamn. country. So if you don't care about it,

33:55

that's you're being, you know, you're you're

33:57

really shooting yourself in the dick there. I'm sorry

33:59

to hear that. So

33:59

let's talk about the issue of precedent because people have

34:02

noted how this how there's a there's a potential

34:04

UPS strike next

34:06

year. And there could be a

34:08

similar effort to frame it as

34:10

an infrastructure and in

34:12

use similar tactics that people are worried about

34:14

that that that this, you know,

34:16

again, mister the greatest labor

34:18

president ever is that that this could have ramifications

34:20

for other of the labor sector

34:22

as well. Well,

34:22

and what especially when it comes to infrastructure, or when it comes to other

34:28

workers

34:28

whose

34:30

labor relations for whom

34:31

are governed by the Railway Labor Act. Right?

34:33

This is like Also,

34:36

like, we talked about,

34:38

like, airline workers. Right? You

34:40

know, falling under this purview as

34:43

well. Right? And became an issue during the

34:45

government shutdown a few years back, so on, and so forth. But, like

34:47

like, here's here's the the the point that I that

34:49

I was making, right, is what I

34:51

want people to understand what

34:53

I need people to understand

34:56

is that this entire

34:58

drawn out process that Mel laid out

35:00

in the beginning. Right? Let's remember where these

35:02

workers have on without a new contract for

35:05

three years. Right? And so there's so much

35:07

I mean, there's so many other nitpicky

35:09

like media criticism points that I

35:11

have written down that just don't have time

35:13

to get into. But, like, one of those is the fact that every corporate

35:15

media outlet is like, oh, this is a

35:17

historic wage increase

35:20

you know, for these workers of, like, over twenty percent.

35:22

What they don't tell you is that these

35:24

workers have not had a wage increase

35:27

for three years. And so, you know, that inflates, you know,

35:29

the size of the increase. It also doesn't

35:32

account for inflation. It also

35:34

doesn't account for the

35:36

amount of those costs that are or that those

35:38

wage gains that are gonna be offset by increased

35:40

health care costs. Right? There's so much

35:42

stuff that is hidden behind the

35:44

ways that corporate media has covered

35:46

this. And this is what workers have been screaming

35:48

about, and I'm so sorry to all of

35:50

them. I just wanna say to every

35:52

railroad worker who's listening like we have

35:54

tried to help get your message out, and I don't

35:56

think that we have accomplished it, and I know

35:58

that corporate media has failed you. And

35:59

I've seen how much that failure hurts, and

36:02

I hope that all of us take this

36:04

as a sort of, you know, call to arms

36:06

to be better about this, be more vigilant

36:08

about this, because then we then we may not end up in

36:10

situations like we're in

36:12

now because the the the long

36:14

roundabout point that I'm getting to is that the

36:16

rail carriers were

36:18

always banking on this result. That is

36:21

why they have bargained in bad

36:23

faith for over two

36:26

years. That is why they have refused to budge on,

36:28

you know, the most sensible requests

36:32

or demands from the

36:34

labor side because they knew

36:36

that this whole process was gonna kick in. They

36:38

expected that the chances are we won't

36:40

even make it to a

36:42

striker lockout deadline chances are, you know, people will get tired, they'll

36:44

get worn out, they'll just wanna go back to work,

36:46

they'll take the wage increase, and this will all

36:48

be over.

36:50

But if we end up on that cliff. Our the

36:52

hole, our the the the

36:54

Trump card that we've got in our back pocket

36:56

is we are banking on

36:59

the president and congress doing what they did back

37:01

in nineteen ninety two, you

37:04

know, just flipping over the

37:06

chessboard, ramming a deal down work throats in a back

37:08

to work order and the railcarriers

37:10

essentially get what they want. When like you said, Adam,

37:12

when you have that in

37:14

your corner, what incentive

37:16

do you have to actually bargain in good

37:18

faith? What incentive? And also what what was the

37:20

point of having members vote? What what was the

37:22

point of having members vote? And

37:24

again, like, What are they asking for? Right? There's every

37:26

worker that Mel and I've talked to have all said the

37:28

same thing. This isn't about money.

37:30

Like, yeah, it's good that we're

37:32

getting, you know, paid, you know,

37:34

fairly forward the the the work that we do. It's very

37:36

tough work. It's very hard work. You

37:38

know, it takes us away from our families yada

37:40

yada. But everything that they keep

37:42

telling us is, like, this is about quality of

37:44

life. We have none. We don't get to see

37:46

our family anymore. Real like,

37:48

the media was just like Warren Buffet, who

37:50

is the CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, which

37:52

owns B and S SF

37:55

Railway, they were just touting,

37:57

you know, celebrating Buffet earlier this week saying,

37:59

oh, he he's given seven hundred and fifty

38:01

million dollars of his own money away

38:03

to these, like, charities Warren Buffett owns BNSF Railway,

38:06

like I said, where workers are dying of heart

38:08

attacks on the job because they

38:10

can't go to a medical appointment because

38:12

they have no paid

38:14

sick leave. And that's the the the last point I

38:16

wanna end on because this is the question that you asked. It's

38:18

not about money for the rail carriers

38:21

either. Again, they're making record profits. They

38:23

are raking it in. They have turned

38:25

the rail system into just

38:27

a cash machine. it

38:29

is not about money for them. The the amount of money

38:32

it would cost them to give

38:34

workers seven or

38:36

fifteen paid sick days

38:38

is minuscule in the grand

38:40

scheme of things compared to

38:42

the profits that they're that they're generating.

38:44

It's about control. It's

38:46

about control because and,

38:48

you know, if you had

38:51

like, it would force these rail

38:53

carriers to, you know, change their profit

38:56

maximizing scheme even just in the

38:58

slightest. You know, I won't rehash what I said

39:00

earlier. But again, like this is their model to

39:02

cut the workforce down to the

39:04

barest minimum and then

39:06

shackle these workers to their

39:08

workstations because you have no more

39:10

reserves and and implement your owning attendance

39:12

policies so everyone is heavily penalized if they

39:14

take a day off. That is a form

39:16

of worker control that you

39:18

have, that they do

39:20

not want to relinquish even though financially they absolutely could.

39:22

And again, this whole thing, what

39:24

everyone should be so

39:26

furious about is that

39:28

this three year process that most

39:30

people didn't care about until

39:32

yesterday has been

39:34

undergirded by that sense from the rail carriers that they have

39:36

the Biden administration or any administration.

39:38

This isn't just Democrats or Republicans.

39:40

Republicans would do

39:42

the same goddam thing. It was Republican senators I

39:44

believe in September who were the ones

39:46

saying we need to force these workers back to

39:48

work and Biden to

39:50

his credit actually, like, tried

39:52

to get Marty Walsh and Buttigieg and everyone to,

39:54

like, come up with a better deal. Republicans are

39:56

ready to sell workers out then. So I don't

39:58

buy any of this bullshit

39:59

Republicans are the class of the working man like this is a

40:02

bipartisan tradition. The the

40:04

demolition of the rail system

40:07

at the behest of, you know, the the the

40:10

greedy corporate oligarchs who

40:12

own them, that has been aided

40:14

and abetted by Democrats and Republicans

40:17

for decades. And so it's just it's

40:20

a really dismal situation and and this is

40:22

very much about sending a message to

40:24

airline workers. to other infrastructure,

40:26

quote unquote, infrastructure workers to the postal

40:28

service. Right? There's there seems like there's very much,

40:30

like, here's the line. You you

40:32

can't cross this line because once you

40:34

do, it's a slipper stop because, again, they see what's happening in Amazon. They see what's

40:36

happening in the Starbucks, and they see what's happening in Apple

40:38

stores. Like, there there is a movement that needs

40:40

to be

40:42

that needs to have its legs chopped off. They need to be taken down a notch.

40:44

And they know that they have an ally

40:46

in the Biden administration. They do.

40:48

Yeah.

40:48

Well, in the Biden administration,

40:50

Well, it's, you know, it's a the party of Democrats.

40:53

They punted back in September because

40:55

they needed to get

40:58

passed

40:58

midterm elections. And they need labor. One thing that's really notable

41:00

here is that the Biden administration

41:03

was noticeably quiet. in

41:06

the run up to the last the end of

41:08

the last cooling off period. They really

41:11

didn't have any, you know,

41:13

much to say beyond We

41:15

leave this up to the folks negotiating.

41:18

You know, we trust that they will come to an

41:20

agreement. Let's hope they do. It was very

41:22

neutral language from the

41:24

Biden administration if I'm remembering correctly, they really didn't say anything. It

41:26

wasn't until the last, you know,

41:28

literally down to the wire. Last

41:30

twelve, twenty four

41:32

hours or so that they were pushing Marty Walsh into those

41:34

boardrooms and trying to find a way to

41:36

get these two sides to come to some

41:38

sort of

41:40

agreement because it was politically a total

41:42

powder keg at the time. Right?

41:44

Mid term elections are on the horizon,

41:48

You try and do this legislation ahead of midterms. You pissed off a portion

41:50

of your electorate. They don't vote you back

41:52

into your seats. You lose control of

41:55

yada yada yada Right? So they pumped it to the other

41:57

side of midterms, and now they feel like they can, you know,

41:59

step in. It's not even

42:02

December yet.

42:04

Right?

42:04

This deadline is so it was December ninth.

42:06

This came out on the twenty eighth of

42:08

November. And, you know, you see this

42:12

on Facebook, in my Twitter DMs, in, you know, other journalists,

42:14

Twitter mentions, all these things,

42:16

where these workers are like, what the fuck

42:18

man? They they sold us

42:20

out fucking twelve days

42:22

before, you know, two almost two weeks

42:24

before this was coming down to the wire,

42:26

we could have used

42:28

this leverage at some point in the next ten days to say,

42:30

hey, clock's ticking. Let's

42:32

figure this out. You know what I mean? And the

42:34

Biden administration

42:36

and craving they are, know that, you know,

42:38

again, it really is a bipartisan

42:40

effort here. When the wagon starts

42:42

circling around capital, man, the

42:44

class distinction

42:46

in terms of political parties disappears. Right? It's

42:48

about ruling class versus working class. This is down

42:50

home American class warfare, the

42:53

hundred percent. Right? And

42:56

And the the sort of political, you know,

42:58

power plays that are happening now

43:01

in Congress are just

43:03

transparent as fuck. And,

43:06

you know, I don't think that very

43:08

many in terms of rank and filers

43:10

are looking at this and

43:12

saying anything other than what it is.

43:15

you know.

43:15

And I just like, I wanted to to

43:17

to kind of lead people, you know,

43:19

building on mills rousing speech just like, get people like a

43:21

sense of, like, okay, what is to be done?

43:23

stored deal Right? You know, what do we do now

43:26

when this is what we're up against? because, yeah, what

43:28

Melan and I are hearing is people have very demoralized.

43:30

They feel very betrayed.

43:32

We can't just let that all evaporate

43:34

into nothing, into apathy, into

43:36

resignation. We have to assess the

43:38

situation for what

43:40

it is. and we need to act accordingly. And what I would

43:42

say, to to Adam's point, you

43:44

know, about, like, needing to kind of, you

43:46

know, be be sober

43:48

and and fair about, you know, who

43:50

were criticizing here. I already said, like, I

43:52

don't buy any goddamn Republican

43:54

would do anything different. In fact, I know they would

43:56

do worse. I already have low expectations for Republicans

43:58

that that's the democrats problem. Right? People have

44:00

just a slightly higher expectation and

44:02

they still manage to let us down. But I would

44:04

say to

44:06

anyone who is genuinely, like, concerned about the democrats

44:08

retaining, like, governmental power now

44:10

and in the future. Right?

44:14

They are demolishing the faith that, you know,

44:16

workers in the labor movement have in

44:18

them, and that's a serious crisis. Because

44:22

this is something I hear not just on the railroads. Like, the

44:24

reason that so many workers

44:26

unionized and non unionized have

44:29

just lost faith entirely in the

44:32

Democrats is because this is par

44:34

for the course. I know that there are people out

44:36

there, even smart people who are

44:38

saying, like, okay, yeah, this is bad, but, you know, we still got to

44:40

acknowledge that Biden is the most pro union

44:42

president in in blah blah blah blah.

44:44

Whatever. What I want you to

44:46

understand is

44:48

that unions, you know, union members and

44:50

workers at remember shit.

44:52

Right? They have a long memory. They

44:55

know that Obama campaigned

44:57

on passing the employee free choice

44:59

act, and then he immediately reneged on

45:01

that when when they got

45:03

him into office. Right? They remember

45:05

how Obama did nothing and sat on his

45:08

goddamn hands while Scott Walker in

45:10

Wisconsin was

45:12

taking a battering ram to Wisconsin

45:14

public sector workers and ramming through act ten

45:16

and turning Wisconsin into a right to

45:18

work state a few

45:20

years later. The democrats did nothing at

45:22

the national level to stop that.

45:24

The pro act has just been

45:26

sitting on the senate for and

45:28

hasn't moved an inch even though it would be a

45:30

seismic change in labor relations

45:32

in this country. Democrats have not

45:34

made that a priority and a lot of people who canvassed hard hard

45:36

for them in the hopes that they would are

45:38

now left spurned. But on top

45:40

of that, if we're looking around

45:43

around at, like, this grassroots energy that is

45:45

coming from Starbucks workers, Amazon

45:48

workers, Chipotle workers, Trader

45:50

Joe's workers, and so on and so

45:52

forth. The Democrats are also

45:54

hamstringing us there. As

45:56

are the Republicans, Republicans have made

45:58

it a point to basically

46:00

fight to block the our

46:02

ability to raise the budget for

46:04

the National Labor Relations board. And thus,

46:06

the budget for the National Labor Relations board

46:08

hasn't been raised and I think like nine years. And

46:10

now when we have an actual fighting

46:13

NLRB more so than we've had in my lifetime

46:15

Right. So just to intervene here quick, that is that is, like, the

46:17

one thing, Biden. has

46:19

done that is pro labor. I wanna I wanna be fair here. Like, the NRRB

46:22

is measurably better than it was, but Yeah.

46:24

He made

46:24

some good appointments, but now, you

46:27

know, the budget is not enough.

46:28

Yeah. They're they're saying they're gonna have to lay furlough people because they can't

46:30

keep up with all the unfair labor practice

46:33

charges and all all the new

46:35

union election filings. So Like, yeah,

46:37

it's great that we've got a Brewzo in there. Now now they need the

46:39

people to actually do their job. So there

46:41

are things that people

46:44

can fight for I'm the I'm the editor in chief of a nonprofit. I

46:46

can't tell people what to have what to fight

46:48

for or whatnot, but these are

46:51

clear ways that you know, we can

46:53

assess the situation and that Democrats could actually, you know, make

46:56

good on their promises if they cared as

46:58

much as they said they do on the

47:00

campaign trail. Well, and

47:01

just kind of, you know, the thought here, the

47:04

phrase, you know, if we give

47:06

them an inch, it'll take a mile,

47:08

goes both ways. Right?

47:10

Clearly the labor movement currently

47:12

as it stands with, you know,

47:14

the highest amount of of successful

47:17

union elections and unprecedented levels

47:19

of grassroots labor organizing in sectors

47:21

that generally haven't had

47:24

unions, like with Amazon,

47:26

like with Starbucks, right,

47:28

has the capitalist class

47:30

running scared. Right? And to

47:32

Max's point about, you know, this being

47:34

about control and about about power.

47:36

You know, workers have

47:38

an amazing amount of

47:40

power. Right? And this is one

47:43

of the most transparent ways that we are

47:45

seeing the capitalist class and aided

47:47

and abetted by you

47:49

know, extensively, you know, partisan

47:53

government and by

47:55

corporate media as it sort

47:57

of propaganda wing whether they want to admit it or not. Right? They

47:59

are doing everything in their power to

48:01

make sure that workers don't realize that.

48:03

Right? And don't, you

48:06

know, actually take a hold

48:08

of that. And it's it's just I'm

48:11

to to talk more about just like

48:13

the actionable sort

48:16

of ways in which we can see this as a moment of of

48:18

not, you know, digging our heels in, really,

48:20

as members of the working class.

48:22

And to sort of see

48:25

the ways in which, you know, try

48:28

to to bolster

48:30

this feeling of solidarity. it's

48:33

gonna be a difficult sort of road. Right? Because

48:35

Max is right. The working class in

48:37

terms of union and

48:40

labor in bodies on the

48:42

ground, people, you know, door knocking for

48:44

candidates. Folks are out

48:46

right now trying to make sure that the Georgia

48:48

runoff goes in a in a good

48:50

direction. Right? they are going to see all of the hard work

48:52

that they put into this for these

48:54

candidates and routinely these candidates

48:56

are sending them up shit

48:58

Creek. Right? eventually,

49:00

they're just gonna stop even caring about

49:02

it. Right. Well, that's

49:03

what makes the splitting the bill so cynical

49:05

because it provides this kind of,

49:07

you know, that you can technically say I voted for this. But

49:09

if you're not willing to use it as

49:11

leveraged, then what the fuck is the vote

49:14

mean? It's it's

49:16

totally symbolic. because it's not gonna pass. Yeah. And just to kind of hammer point

49:18

home about the fact that this is not about

49:20

money. Right? This like like

49:22

so much I I think of the of

49:26

the framework that we've seen

49:28

from obviously the,

49:29

you know, corporations,

49:31

but also from the

49:35

the media, certain politicians talking about this issue when

49:37

it even rises to that level.

49:38

But is, you know, oh, well, there

49:41

are all these increased costs. Right?

49:43

There are all these increased cross, which is why we need to negotiate.

49:46

We need to do this. We need to do that.

49:48

You know, paid sick

49:50

leave is gonna, you know,

49:52

devastate whatever whatever kind

49:54

of profits, you know, these

49:56

these companies are making. And Max,

49:58

you you referenced this this earlier.

49:59

There publicly available are

50:02

publicly available earnings

50:02

calls from

50:04

the CEOs of these companies,

50:06

I mean, across all industries. But I

50:08

mean, you can you can like,

50:11

you

50:11

can literally read this shit. And, you know, so for example,

50:13

just this past October,

50:16

just about

50:17

a month ago,

50:20

Jennifer Hammond, the Executive Vice President

50:22

and CFO of Union

50:24

Pacific, said on

50:24

the earnings calls, meaning like four shareholders

50:26

to know that they're making money, that

50:29

despite labor

50:30

cost increases this past

50:33

year of a hundred and

50:35

fourteen million dollars for

50:38

Right? Oh, that's a big number. A hundred fourteen

50:40

million. She said this, quote,

50:41

year to date, shareholders

50:44

have received seven point

50:46

nine billion dollars

50:48

through

50:48

dividends and share repurchases, end

50:50

quote. And then you have another call

50:53

from earlier this year, in in July

50:55

of twenty twenty two, from

50:57

James Foote, the president, CEO, and

50:59

director of CSX, which is a

51:01

freight rail company, basically,

51:04

like, lamented

51:06

that, you know, oh, they're trying to do what

51:08

they, you know, can for

51:10

for for their workers, but it's but it's really hard even

51:13

though, again, billions of

51:15

dollars in income and

51:17

profit is being made. despite,

51:20

you know, a couple hundred million

51:22

dollars in cost increases.

51:24

But James Foote, again,

51:26

the the president of CSX said

51:29

this on an earnings callback in July,

51:31

quote, we're working on a

51:34

unionized environment, and we're not

51:35

able to do much without an agreement

51:37

from the unions. including increasing their pay, but we

51:39

have tried many options and we'll

51:42

continue to do

51:42

whatever we can to try to

51:45

change the working environment so people

51:47

feel like they really want to work here simple

51:50

as that. So it's an ongoing

51:52

process like everything is. And so we

51:54

don't have any silver

51:56

bullets. We're making it up to a large

51:58

degree as we go along. And

51:59

quote, and he said this later on the

52:02

same call, quote, the labor market

52:04

is tight. press sorry. Quote, the

52:05

labor market is tight. Prospective recruits

52:08

have many job options. And

52:10

the pandemic has

52:13

had a profound effect on employees

52:15

work and lifestyle preferences. Oh,

52:17

fuck off. Our hiring

52:19

process has been steady

52:22

but slow end quote. So I I just

52:24

wanted them. Put put

52:26

those quotes from the

52:29

fucking, like, leaders at these

52:32

railroad companies,

52:34

like, in in the record of of

52:37

of our conversation, And, you know, if there is I'm

52:39

glad you kind of responded that way, Max,

52:42

to to to that one

52:44

line. I think the idea that,

52:46

you know,

52:47

the the the president and

52:49

CEO of CSX would on

52:51

the earnings call

52:54

lament, you know, the profound effect that

52:56

employees work and lifestyle preferences

52:58

due to the pandemic, speaks

53:00

volumes, this idea that, oh,

53:03

well, you know, Now,

53:05

you know, now, I

53:07

guess, conductors just wanna work

53:09

remote. You know, like, what the fuck we

53:11

talking about here?

53:14

And, like, I I mean, it's you should people listening,

53:16

I hope that you were as angry as we are.

53:18

And I hope that we've, like, at least, been

53:20

coherent through

53:22

our rage but this is such

53:24

an infuriating situation for

53:26

the reasons you just pointed out, NEEMA.

53:28

I mean, Union Pacific, in twenty

53:30

twenty one, had its most profitable

53:32

year ever and it cites increasing

53:35

fees. Right? Again, I mentioned that

53:37

these rate these freight

53:40

rail carriers are they're not competitive? They have an

53:42

oligopolistic non competitive cartel

53:44

where the seven different major rail

53:46

carriers have

53:48

their territory on the rail lines. No one's building new

53:50

rail lines to compete with them, so they

53:52

can just keep jacking up fees and and

53:54

on shippers and so on and so forth.

53:57

that's partially where their profits are coming from.

53:59

The other part is from, you

54:01

know, cutting operating ratio. That's what we've

54:03

been talking about now. slashing the

54:06

workforce, piling more work on the fewer

54:08

workers, investing, not

54:10

investing in rail maintenance and then

54:12

acting surprised when you start getting bunch of derailments

54:14

because the trains are too long, the tracks

54:17

aren't being up kept, and the

54:19

workers are delirious because

54:22

they haven't slept in three goddamn days. Just another thing to add

54:24

to what you said, Nima,

54:26

Surface Transportation Board chairman

54:28

Martin Oberman has estimated

54:31

that since two thousand and ten, the class one

54:33

rail carriers have spent forty

54:36

six billion dollars

54:38

more. More on stock

54:40

buybacks and shareholder dividends than they have

54:42

spent investing in railroad

54:44

maintenance. And all of us are at

54:46

hazard because of this. I beg people

54:49

Go listen to the workers that Mel and I have

54:51

talked to at the real news on my podcast working

54:53

people. Listen to the pain and frustration in their

54:56

voice. These are the people who are being

54:58

running to the ground. And it's the

55:00

rail carriers who have been causing this

55:02

crisis through their greedy practices. And

55:04

now everyone is talking about how we, quote,

55:06

unquote, averted a rail strike.

55:08

We didn't avert shit. Workers just had their strike

55:10

preemptively broken by POTUS

55:12

and all the while the crisis

55:14

that is already here and the people

55:17

who have been you know, at at the

55:19

wheel driving that crisis through their greedy

55:22

practices just got a

55:24

big thumb up from the

55:26

government saying keep doing what you're doing,

55:28

doesn't matter what happens to the workers, and

55:30

that is bad news for workers in

55:32

all of us. Well, I think

55:34

that is an excellent

55:36

place to leave it. Thank you,

55:38

Mel and Max, for joining us

55:40

on this real news network citations.

55:42

needed crossover event to discuss clearly

55:45

the most pro Pinkerton

55:47

president of late and, you

55:49

know, if anything else, I

55:51

think what's going on right now really make singing. I've

55:54

been working on railroad all the live long day.

55:56

Sound a lot more

55:58

sinister than just a

55:59

childhood songs. So thank you again. We've been joined

56:02

by Mel Buren researcher

56:04

educator journalist and editor at the real

56:06

news network.

56:08

Mel is currently writing a book on radical media for or books. And

56:10

we have also been joined by Max

56:13

Alvarez, editor in chief of the real news

56:15

network, former editor of Crunco

56:17

Review and host of The Working People podcast. Book The

56:20

Work of Living was published by Orbooks

56:22

earlier this year. Mel and Max, thank

56:24

you so much again for joining us on

56:26

citations needed. Thank you for having us.

56:28

Thanks, guys. And that will do it for

56:30

this citations needed. News brief,

56:32

please join us soon for

56:34

morphe length episodes But

56:36

until then, you can follow us on Twitter at

56:38

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if you are so inclined, become a supporter of

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the show through patreon

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dot com. slash citations needed all your sport through Patreon

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is so incredibly appreciated as we are

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one hundred percent listener funded, but that

56:50

will do it For this

56:52

news brief, we will catch you on the next four

56:54

linked episode soon. But until then, I am

56:56

Nima Shirazi. I'm

56:58

Adam Johnson. Thank you again for listening

57:00

is Florence Bur Adams. Our

57:02

producer is Julian Tweaton, production assistant is trended

57:04

at Lightbird newsletter by Marco

57:06

Cardlateral transcription. are

57:08

by Morgan McAsden. The music is by Thanks again everyone.

57:11

We'll catch you next time.

57:12

he