0:07

Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Soe

0:09

and you're listening to Climbing in Heels

0:11

for your weekly dose of glamor, inspiration

0:14

and of course fun. Okay,

0:17

I am joined today by the most incredible

0:21

powerhouse that is doctor

0:24

Laura Devkin. Doctor Devkin

0:26

is recognized as New York's number

0:28

one female cosmetic surgeon and

0:31

the mother two six children.

0:34

Six, yes six, do you know anyone's

0:37

six children?

0:38

Doctor Devkin's passion in how

0:40

she practices cosmetics and reconstructive

0:43

surgery is so deeply inspiring.

0:46

The artistry in physiology that she has

0:49

clearly mastered has transformed

0:51

so many people's lives and instilled

0:53

so much confidence in countless

0:55

men and women.

0:57

I cannot wait for you to hear this episode.

0:59

It is so good. So let's get right

1:02

into it. And I never

1:04

do this.

1:05

I want you to know that in the year

1:07

and a half that I've been doing climbing and heels, I've

1:09

never once read a paragraph off something

1:12

I got about someone's like bio. But

1:14

this one is so mind blowing that I think

1:16

it's a great little intro.

1:18

Okay.

1:19

Doctor Devgan attended

1:22

Yale College, John Hopkins Medical

1:24

School, JOHNS Hopkins School of Public

1:26

Health Columbia, Cornell, New York

1:28

Presbyterian Hospital Plastic

1:30

and Reconstructive Surgery Residency

1:33

and Fellowship, and obtained a coveted

1:35

National Institutes of Health T thirty

1:38

two Predoctoral Clinical Research

1:40

Fellowship to study surgical

1:42

outcomes. Her surgical expertise

1:44

spans cosmetic and reconstructive

1:47

surgery, focusing on facial

1:49

aesthetics, advanced body contouring, and

1:51

complex reconstructive cases.

1:54

As a respected attending surgeon

1:56

at Lenox Hill Hospital, Greenwich

1:58

Hospital, and Manhattan Ear and

2:00

Throat Infirmary, Doctor Devkin not

2:03

only practices but also contributes

2:05

to educating the next generation of plastic

2:08

and reconstructive surgeons

2:10

and then it goes on and on. Recognized

2:13

as New York's number one female

2:15

cosmetic surgeon by Rate MDS

2:18

and featured in The New York Times, Forbes, Wall

2:20

Street Journal, Washington Post, Guardian, UK,

2:22

Vogue, Glamour, Laura Town and Country, l Murray

2:25

Claire, and more. Doctor Devkin has also been named to

2:27

America's Top Plastic Surgeons.

2:29

She's the founder and CEO of Luxury Medical Grade

2:31

Skincare, which I use. Doctor Devkin's

2:33

Scientific Beauty and the host of Beauty Boss's

2:36

podcast. Doctor Devkin lives in Manhattan with her

2:38

husband and children.

2:39

So you're clearly

2:41

a slacker. This is like, this

2:44

is insane.

2:45

You recognize that, right you are a

2:48

force of knowledge accomplishment

2:52

and all the things that, like, I

2:55

think, are like the

2:58

most insanely like thought

3:00

to be unachievable by so many people,

3:03

as adults, as kids, as teens,

3:05

like what is she human? And I

3:07

know you and you are so human

3:10

and so lovely and

3:12

obviously so talented. But I need

3:14

to talk to you a bit about this journey.

3:17

I need to, really I want

3:19

to talk about it. So I need to know, first

3:22

of all, where were you born and

3:24

raised and how and who

3:26

were you as a child that you

3:28

are this adult.

3:31

Please explain how this happens?

3:34

Cool? Such an introduction. Oh my god. I

3:36

grew up in la I grew up in Malibu,

3:39

California, and Santa Monica, and

3:42

since I was little, my favorite things

3:44

to do were drawing

3:47

and painting, and so I grew up

3:49

as a classically trained artist. When

3:51

I was little, we lived up the road

3:53

from the old Getty Villa in

3:55

Malibu, and I

3:58

used to take art classes there and

4:00

I remember being a little kid and trying

4:02

to splash in the fountains and drawing

4:05

these Etruscan antiquities, and it was such

4:07

an amazing way to appreciate

4:10

creativity and that

4:12

it kind of became the underpinning for everything else

4:14

after that.

4:16

And so you grew Okay, so where did you

4:18

go to school? First?

4:19

Like?

4:19

Where do you you do? You go to school in Malibu?

4:22

Where did you go to school? Here?

4:23

I elementary school in Malibu at

4:25

Webster Elementary. I think it's still around

4:28

for sure. And then I did high school

4:30

at Harvard Wesley in.

4:34

La Proper yep, best private school in

4:36

Los Angeles, Yes, yes, yes, okay.

4:39

Then it was a pressure cooker. I hear it's become

4:41

a bit more intense.

4:43

Yeah, but it is.

4:45

Yeah, but okay, So then you

4:48

go to Yale Undergrad right, which,

4:50

as I know, is an incredible school. But

4:53

did you know, like, were

4:56

you a kind of a girl

4:58

that was like, I'm

5:00

a girl I can do anything boys can do. I

5:03

don't like what kind of girl?

5:05

What kind of student were you like? What kind of

5:07

kid were you?

5:09

Like?

5:09

Were you always an overachiever?

5:12

I was the kind of kid that

5:14

I am as an adult, I was like

5:17

I had the same

5:20

energy that I have in the operating room even

5:22

when I was little. So I wonder if people

5:25

I know, there are all these debates about nature and nurture,

5:27

but I've been I've been kind

5:29

of a perfectionist since I was a little.

5:32

I was a big student in school. I

5:35

was obsessed with my cats. When I was growing

5:37

up. I would like have a whole little

5:39

world with my cats. I loved math,

5:42

science, writing, reading, I loved

5:45

anticiplate in school, and

5:48

my siblings

5:51

were a lot older, so they were kind of out of the house

5:54

and already in college when I was growing up,

5:56

and so I had a little bit more

5:58

of an adult skewing worldview

6:01

because I was hanging out with my parents all the time.

6:03

Got it okay?

6:04

So that I mean that checks

6:06

and so were you when

6:09

you started school? Were you like, I want to

6:11

be a plastic surgeon, this is what I want to do?

6:12

At what point?

6:14

Not at all. I went to Yale and I was an English major

6:16

because I loved reading, and I just

6:18

I loved writing. I loved reading. I thought

6:21

that there's nothing better than trying

6:23

to find all the right words for all the

6:25

complex, nuanced feelings. And

6:28

I really continue to respect reading

6:30

and writing so much. I

6:33

always have been passionate about art and

6:35

anatomy, and as

6:37

I evolved at Yale, I was I

6:39

was very much a science kid as well. I was just a

6:41

student kid. I've always

6:43

loved learning, and I still like learning, yeah,

6:45

of course, and so I was always

6:48

taking in everything. And so when I was

6:50

in college, besides, I

6:52

made all these goals for myself. I was like, Okay, I'm

6:54

going to I'm going to read the complete works

6:56

of Shakespeare. I'm gonna write

6:59

so much stuff. I'm going to

7:01

work in There was a professor

7:04

I really admired who passed away, Robert McNabb.

7:06

But he was a prize winning,

7:08

really brilliant biochemist, and I worked

7:10

in his biochemistry lab. I did

7:12

clinical research with Michael Merson,

7:15

who at the time was the dean of the Yale School of

7:17

Public Health, and I

7:20

just wanted to understand everything

7:22

there was to understand so that I could figure

7:25

out where I wanted to be. At

7:27

one point in college, I got the opportunity to

7:31

do an internship at

7:33

the Aga Khon Hospital in Nairobi,

7:35

Kenya, which is where my mom

7:37

grew up. My mom is a

7:40

native of Kenya and

7:42

so she grew up in Nairobi

7:45

for most of her life and I

7:48

had the opportunity to go back there

7:51

for a summer in college and intern

7:53

at this hospital. And

7:55

it was such an amazing life

7:58

changing experience because there

8:00

was so much disease burden and so

8:02

much opportunity to help people who

8:05

lived in a vastly different way. I

8:07

was coming from the Ivy League, from

8:09

you know, a stable

8:11

household in southern California, at

8:14

all these educational institutions where everything

8:16

looks so nice and perfect, and there

8:18

was a lot of inequity.

8:21

There was a lot of lack of access to

8:23

health. There was very high prevalence

8:25

of HIV and AIDS, and I

8:27

was the fraternity ward in a hospital.

8:29

And I think around that time I began

8:32

to think, you know, I love

8:35

writing. I want to continue with the English

8:37

major, but rather than describing the

8:39

things that other people do, I want

8:41

to do those things myself. And that

8:43

led me to a career in medicine,

8:46

and I applied to medical school. The rest is history.

8:48

That's so wild, that is so well,

8:50

it's interesting because I think that's sort

8:53

of this that's

8:55

sort of this like fearlessness. I

8:57

think that comes in because when I think about

8:59

it, like I was a psychology major

9:01

in college, right, I ended up in fashion. I would

9:03

argue I use psychology every day of my life, and

9:06

I would say that I couldn't be happier than I majored

9:08

in it because I still am obsessed

9:10

with the psychology, and

9:13

you know, it is something you really I

9:15

feel, I really do use. I think

9:17

in terms of practicing in

9:19

medicine, that is something

9:22

that you do. I think, flip

9:24

this switch at some point and go, I want

9:26

to be in it. I actually

9:29

want to do it instead of researching

9:31

it, instead of talking about it, instead of learning

9:33

about it. You do all those things obviously constantly.

9:36

But to me, that's

9:39

the like jump, that's the like I

9:41

want my hands in this kind of thing.

9:43

And so I like,

9:45

at what, like were you scared? Were

9:47

you?

9:48

Like I always wonder I think

9:50

when it comes to jumping

9:53

into an actual medical

9:55

profession, like do you ever do did you have any

9:57

fears about entering it? Because I feel like at that time

10:00

it was likely mostly male, was

10:02

it?

10:04

Yeah, well, surgery continues to

10:06

be mostly male, and by the time

10:08

I got to medical school in

10:11

two thousand and two, there

10:14

were a lot of women in the class.

10:16

I think it wasn't quite

10:18

half and half, but it was getting there, but

10:21

within surgical subspecialties it

10:23

was still extremely male dominated.

10:26

When I got to medical school,

10:29

I knew that I wanted to treat it like learning

10:32

language, and that kind

10:34

of desire I've had since I was a kid to learn

10:37

as much as possible and taken everything about

10:39

the world was one hundredfold in medical

10:42

school because the level of

10:44

knowledge that you need to master of anatomy,

10:46

physiology, pharmacology, disease,

10:48

clinical medicine is encyclopedic

10:51

and judging medical school, I

10:53

thought I wanted to go into surgical oncology,

10:56

which is an amazing field that involves

10:58

surgery related to cancers of the body.

11:01

And in those cases when I

11:04

was observing, as you know, a medical

11:06

student assistant in the operating

11:08

room, I found myself gravitating towards

11:10

the ends of the cases, which at

11:13

the end of the case is when the plastic surgery team

11:15

comes in and they reconstruct

11:18

the resected tissue deficits.

11:20

So if the

11:23

cancer team has taken away somebody's

11:25

entire jawbone, the plastic

11:27

surgery team will come in and use

11:30

the fibula a bone of the leg and

11:32

do these delicate microvascular

11:34

anastomos these under a microscope

11:36

and create a new jaw out

11:39

of the leg. You know, just these mind

11:41

blowing beautiful operations, make

11:44

a new breast out of your you know,

11:46

abdominal body tissue, right exactly.

11:50

It's just I mean, it's really it was

11:52

so beautiful and interesting, and I thought to

11:54

myself, this is what I need to do, because

11:56

plastic and reconstructive surgery is first

11:58

of all, totally misunderstand in pop culture,

12:00

in the media life. It seems like the most

12:03

frivolous, stupid profession, but it's

12:05

actually built out of people who at least

12:07

at one point were extremely intellectual.

12:09

Yes, and I say, okay, this is all

12:12

age groups, this is men and women, this is

12:14

age zero to one hundred plus.

12:17

You have to be a master of all types of anatomy

12:19

and physiology. You really have to understand

12:22

artistry. And so that little kid

12:24

part of me was also coming to the surface, and that's

12:26

kind of how I ended up there.

12:28

That's so incredibly fascinating,

12:30

because you know, I

12:32

would apply the same thing to fashion.

12:34

Right.

12:34

So I had a crossroads in my career

12:37

many times in fashion, where I was like, this

12:39

seems so superficial, this seems so this,

12:41

this seems so that, And then I would get

12:43

these like women coming

12:46

up to me like you changed my life. You made me

12:48

get out of a depression, you made me come out of this.

12:50

You maybe want to feel like a woman again, you maybe want

12:52

to go to work again. You met and again

12:54

the psychology of what that process

12:57

means. And to your point, you

12:59

know, and I think about cosmetic

13:01

and plastic surgery for the longest

13:04

time it was reconstructive because

13:06

I have so many people in my life who

13:08

have had to get reconstructive surgeries for cancer

13:11

and various other things, and historically

13:15

that's what it meant, right, But

13:17

to your point, I also want to I

13:19

also want to touch on the

13:21

importance of what you do

13:24

on a cosmetic level for so

13:26

many women, because I do

13:29

think that the

13:31

women that look like the best version

13:34

of themselves in the most natural way,

13:37

which is how I even found out about you in the first

13:39

place, was that all these women, I'm

13:41

like, you look incredibly at doctor Devkin, doctor

13:43

Devkin, doctor Devkin, doctor Duvkin, and it

13:45

was like, who is doctor Devgen Because living

13:47

in LA and I was like.

13:49

Why don't I know this person?

13:51

And then I went down

13:53

the black hole and I like obviously

13:56

follow you, and I was like, oh my god, I

13:58

need everything you do, and like,

14:00

I think what you do is enhance

14:03

and capture the best thing about women.

14:05

I don't think. I think.

14:07

I think you help built confidence and I think

14:09

what you do is beautiful to be

14:12

honest and so, but I do think

14:14

to your point, society and pop culture has

14:16

taken this for better

14:18

for works to a whole different place and has very

14:20

different connotations with many people.

14:22

Yes, I agree with that.

14:25

I totally agree with you. Plastic surgery

14:27

is not even about how you look. It's about

14:29

identity and confidence. And if

14:32

I'm doing my job well, then any

14:34

indication that I've even been present is

14:36

not available to the viewer

14:39

user. And the best, most

14:41

beautiful artistic bespoke work

14:43

flips into the background. So it's

14:45

almost like fashion, where there is a

14:48

spoke coulture element to it. And

14:50

also like fashion, plastic

14:52

surgery has both form and function,

14:54

so there is the reconstructive

14:57

aspect of it that is a fundamental part

14:59

of the backdrop of plastic surgery,

15:01

and that's everything from cancer reconstruction

15:04

trauma, reconstruction for facial bone

15:07

cleft and palette, congenital anomalies,

15:09

all types of syndromes, burn surgery,

15:12

hand surgery, tendon repairs, digit

15:14

replantation, tissue transfer. There's

15:16

this huge functional part

15:18

of it, like if you're wearing a shirt, it has to

15:20

cover the relevant parts and there's

15:24

all form like you know, you can save

15:26

somebody's life but have it not look good,

15:28

of course, or you can make

15:30

it the most beautiful fashion garment

15:33

that you would ever want to wear, that's completely

15:36

beautifully tailored and customized.

15:38

All of the seams are in the background,

15:41

and it looks like that person was born to

15:43

wear it. And that's kind of the difference

15:45

between good work and excellent

15:48

work. And when

15:50

I came of age as a plastic surgeon, as you were

15:52

alluding to before, it was a completely male

15:54

dominated field, the very toxic

15:57

work environments. This weird situation

15:59

that currently exists where ninety percent

16:01

of plastic surgeons are men, but yet ninety

16:03

out of patients or wins. So that's this strange

16:06

pig melion complex where men were like

16:08

making their ideal Barry Dollar lab

16:11

and I just felt like, you know, what's

16:13

missing is what about people like

16:16

me who are intelligent women of

16:18

substance who also want to put their

16:20

best selves to the world. And you

16:22

know where lipstick doesn't make you less smart,

16:24

It doesn't take away your college degree or whatever.

16:26

It doesn't make you an anti intellectual

16:29

if you want to wear a Q or

16:31

look as yeah, you know. And

16:33

I think, I really think that that's

16:35

part of the human condition. Ever since

16:38

Narcissus looked at his puddle in the

16:40

lake, we all

16:42

have been trying to wear cool

16:44

sneakers, work on our abs at the gym,

16:47

color our gray hair. As I was talking

16:49

about, it's part

16:53

of what makes humans human. And I think

16:55

the moment you stop caring about how

16:57

you project and present to the world is

17:00

the moment when you stop caring about who you are.

17:02

I could not agree with that more.

17:06

And I think it's okay to say that, and I

17:08

think it's okay to be that. And I think,

17:10

listen, it's all tied together, right,

17:13

How we put ourselves out there, how we carry ourselves.

17:15

It affects our emotional being.

17:17

Like I always tell people the story

17:19

when I had COVID a couple of years ago, I

17:21

literally was isolated, locked in a bedroom

17:24

for like ten days. Basically I

17:26

had a full like cat ee and lashes every

17:29

single day and concealer because

17:31

I just was like, yep, me myself

17:33

and I in this room, but like, this is how

17:35

I feel like me, you know. I

17:38

just I think that that is

17:41

sort of not everyone feels

17:43

that way, but for me, that's how I feel.

17:45

It's not for anybody, it's you know,

17:47

it's for me. And I think I think it's

17:50

okay that we can wear these different

17:52

hats, and I think that as

17:54

women, Like it's funny, all my doctors

17:56

are female. Anyone who touches

17:58

my face is going to be a female and

18:00

like, and that's across the board.

18:02

Anyone who touches my body is going to be a female

18:04

too, Like all my doctors are female. And

18:06

that's And I love men, you know I

18:09

do. I love men. I'm not a men bacheer.

18:11

I love men. Men have been very supportive

18:13

of me. But I think at the end of the day,

18:16

I I

18:18

would want a woman who who

18:21

who understands my psychology

18:24

and understands where I am

18:26

and what I'm going through. And I think there's just this empathy

18:29

that I think women have that

18:32

you know, I think that we get it, but I

18:34

think, you know, how

18:37

do you, like, how do you have six

18:40

children?

18:40

So explain this to me? I mean, I know how,

18:43

but so you're you're.

18:45

One of the literally like

18:48

the absolute most booked, busiest,

18:51

hardest working as

18:53

just someone who is a working mom of

18:55

two, Like, how,

18:59

how please explain this to me? Because

19:02

you're obviously an incredible mother.

19:04

If we grew up thinking I

19:06

was going to have a huge family, I'm

19:08

the youngest of four, my husband is

19:10

one of three, and so we kind of thought maybe

19:12

that would be a reasonable number, right, But

19:16

you know, I love my kids

19:18

more than anything. They're really good

19:20

kids course, and it is

19:22

the best. And that's just like kind of what life

19:24

dealt us. After a while, we figured out

19:27

how it was happening because we were able to I'm

19:29

just kidding.

19:32

But like, I'm thinking about you going through

19:34

all these years of school and

19:37

practice, and I'm also considering you

19:39

were probably pregnant for like twelve of those years,

19:41

give or take, right, So like.

19:43

No, actually I am I had

19:45

I had my eldest son

19:48

when I was a senior resident,

19:50

when I was a chief resident, and

19:53

all my other five kids I had as an

19:55

attending so I was more

19:58

able to sort it out. But yeah,

20:00

I have four sons, their aged

20:02

twelve year old twins and eight,

20:05

and then I have two daughters who are seven and five.

20:07

I mean, honestly, it's the dream.

20:10

The cats are getting in there, they're doing

20:12

a breakfast routine and they're helping with everything.

20:14

So tell me, like, Okay,

20:17

so in your in

20:19

your everyday life, like do you just say,

20:22

are you still sort of like what's

20:25

next? Or are you sort of like I

20:27

guess what I'm saying is are you systematic

20:29

in your approach to your career or do you

20:32

just cause I'm very gut driven, I'm

20:34

not.

20:34

I don't plan things at all.

20:36

I'm very like what feels right in

20:38

the moment, what's next? When I feel

20:40

like it's time to do something else? Are you

20:42

sort of like, Okay, by

20:45

next year, I want to launch my next product

20:47

line by this time I wanted to. Or do you just

20:49

like are you just like I'm good? Right now

20:51

I'm working on my products? Like how do you how

20:54

does this brain of yours operate?

20:57

Explain to me?

20:58

I like to I like to always

21:01

have projects going on. I think the least

21:03

happy times in my life have been when I've not

21:06

been busy, so I thrive on projects

21:09

and building and busyness. So

21:13

I like to plan stuff. Not

21:15

everything is planned. I think the big unknown

21:17

is always a factor, and you

21:20

know, I like I like being open

21:22

to opportunities and just fun stuff

21:24

that can come up here and there. Some

21:27

of the most fun things I've done recently

21:30

have just randomly come up out of nowhere,

21:32

like our smoothie a juice press,

21:34

or our co branded Costa Chipriani

21:37

products. These are like organic

21:39

things that have happened in some time.

21:43

But I do like to have kind of

21:45

a bimodal distribution

21:47

of my thought, where there's a short term set

21:49

of goals and a long term set of goals.

21:52

And you know that Aristotle

21:54

line that excellence is not an

21:56

act but a habit, and you are what you

21:59

do. So I try to make sure that each

22:01

day is a freestanding, successful

22:03

day. But then I try to think

22:05

about what's going to happen in

22:08

the future. I mean a lot of that is it's

22:11

really a fool's errand because we can't really

22:13

plan the future, I think it's

22:15

one to try.

22:16

Well.

22:17

I love your products

22:19

so much, they're so good, especially the

22:21

lip plumper.

22:22

By the way, I want to add that is so good.

22:25

Someone came over to do my makeup and

22:27

I had it on and she

22:29

was like, did you do your

22:31

lips? And I was like, no, I literally

22:34

just put this on twenty minutes ago,

22:37

literally twenty minutes or she had seen me like two

22:39

days before.

22:40

Yeah, no, it literally it looks like a Cyrindra

22:42

pill. I've put myself out of business a

22:44

little time.

22:47

Whoa, But I want

22:49

to talk about that for a second. I just do want

22:51

to touch on because listen, I mean

22:54

being in full disclosure. Not everybody can afford

22:56

to come see the Queen doctor Davkin. So

22:58

what is your advice for

23:01

women all over the country, all over the world

23:03

that are like I dream to come seere I can't.

23:05

I can't necessarily come get treatment from her,

23:08

but I want to look better?

23:09

What can I do? Do you have tips and tricks?

23:12

There's some very easy,

23:15

super inexpensive, even free things that

23:17

you can do on a daily basis, besides

23:19

just the stuff your mom told you to do. Likes

23:22

unscreen and don't drink, don't smoke,

23:24

where sunscreened. Oh we have to live, but

23:27

you have to live a little so whatever that means

23:29

to you. I think you

23:31

can, first of all, right away

23:33

try to sleep on your back, because if you get positional

23:36

wrinkles I do I compress one

23:38

side of your face, that's going to be a problem.

23:41

I think another good tip is to try

23:44

to stay physically active because,

23:46

particularly like for our generation

23:48

and as people age, if your

23:50

muscle mass decreases, then

23:53

that will have an impact on your bone density

23:55

and osteopenia and osteoporosis. So

23:58

it's funny I watched this video. It was an

24:00

interview of like a dozen

24:02

women in their sixties and seventies,

24:05

and the question is what advice would you give

24:07

to your younger self? And all

24:09

of them said almost all of them said build

24:12

more bone density. And I thought about

24:15

that as like what is salient? So

24:18

thinking about stuff like regular exercise

24:20

and not just for vanity, not just so you

24:22

can get in acute drink, but so

24:25

that you can have muscle mass and strong

24:27

bones, because that will impact your

24:29

attractiveness as well as your health

24:31

and longevity. So you know, as we

24:34

aid, a facial bones structure shrinks,

24:37

particularly if you have a low

24:39

degree of bone

24:42

density. So if you have more osteoclast

24:45

than osteoblast activity, then

24:47

you're going to have more loss of the facial skeleton.

24:50

Then there's other stuff like you know, using

24:53

medical grade skincare, vitamin CB,

24:55

rule exerum, retinol, bacouchial

24:58

peptide based I cream, mixed

25:00

molecular weight haluronic with niacinamide.

25:04

These ingredients can improve

25:07

skin quality because even if you can't

25:09

go get botox and lasers and

25:11

all that stuff every three or four months, this

25:14

is almost like the equivalent of brushing

25:16

your teeth every day so that you don't

25:18

need to go get your teeth whitened, so that like

25:20

mini level of resurfacing. So

25:23

those are some of my more esoteric

25:26

tips about how age

25:28

in a healthful way.

25:30

And I also the other thing I do want

25:32

to point out is I think one of the things I

25:34

admire about your work the most is

25:37

like, yes, of course you do every kind

25:39

of surgical procedure or whatever,

25:41

but I do love how you

25:43

always present these alternative,

25:46

like non surgical procedures that

25:48

really are like face changing, like

25:51

the little magic you do to noses

25:53

and like all these jaw things

25:56

and all these magical things.

25:57

That you have like figured out how

25:59

to do it unreal.

26:01

That's the future of beauty.

26:03

The future of plastic surgery to me is

26:05

using the most invasive surgical

26:08

anatomy, but using

26:11

less invasive, non surgical,

26:13

smaller, less invasive

26:15

modalities to achieve it. So you

26:18

kind of need to marry both in order

26:20

to push the envelope. But things

26:22

little developments like non surgical rhinoplasty.

26:25

I think that's the most important cosmetic

26:28

surgery concept during

26:30

my lifetime. That's going to take literally

26:34

millions of people out of

26:36

the operating room, and that's incredibly

26:38

powerful. Just the act of using

26:41

micro droplet haluronic acid

26:43

as if it were a surgical Carlage graph

26:45

with the mind and eye of a

26:48

real board certified plastic surgeon, you

26:50

can make very powerful changes to

26:52

the face. So I think part of that is

26:54

what we were talking about earlier, which is just

26:56

openness to ideas, being ready

26:59

to not shy away

27:01

from change and progress, but continuing

27:04

to be aware, continuing to read

27:06

articles. Do research make progress.

27:10

Okay, So my closing

27:12

question, because I don't want to take your whole day.

27:14

It's interesting.

27:15

I have a lot of people that wanted me to ask you

27:17

this question because there's a huge controversy

27:19

about it. I kind of have a feeling how you're going to answer

27:21

it, but I'm still going to ask you. There's

27:24

a big debate about

27:26

what age you should have facelifts

27:28

or things done like that.

27:30

Right.

27:30

Are you asked this at least once a day?

27:33

Yes, And so there's this

27:36

conversation lately in

27:39

Los Angeles going around like I've

27:41

already missed the boat.

27:42

I'm too old.

27:43

Apparently I was just to get it in my thirties or my forties

27:46

or whatever. My response

27:48

to that was like, well, it depends on your face,

27:51

but I want to

27:53

hear from the queen, so

27:56

please share your thoughts on this.

27:58

So this is a really important

28:00

and frequently asked questions. I think

28:02

that the trend is toward smaller,

28:06

more finesse surgical procedures at younger

28:08

ages, and that's for four main reasons.

28:10

I think. First, it can be a more discrete

28:13

outcome, so less of adulta between the before

28:15

and the after. Second, you're going to have

28:17

a better healing propensity because

28:19

your molecules and cells will be

28:22

younger and fresher and more able to

28:24

heal an incision. Third, you'll

28:26

be able to have a smaller scar and

28:28

fourth, you're going to have more quality

28:30

adjusted life years to enjoy that outcome.

28:34

So that's kind of how people are generally

28:36

thinking about things. However, you

28:39

know, not every nail requires

28:41

the same kind of hammer, and so some

28:43

people can be very happy delaying,

28:46

defering completely surgery.

28:48

And I think that's part of what modern beauty

28:51

means. It means the permission to be

28:53

your own kind of beautiful. You don't have

28:55

to shove it down someone's throat to like, go

28:57

have a surgery. As a plastic

28:59

surgeon, the way I think about these things is

29:01

when you have more than a centimeter of pinchable

29:04

laxity in the neck, the jowl, or

29:06

the mid face, or to put it another

29:08

way, whenever you're dying to subtract.

29:11

Typically, subtraction is the domain

29:14

of surgery. Addiction

29:17

can be done surgically and non surgically, but

29:19

they're not. That is, to subtract

29:21

without surgery.

29:23

Right understood? Understood?

29:26

Okay?

29:26

And what would you say is a procedure you've done

29:28

most throughout your career?

29:30

Is there one?

29:32

Surgically? I do a lot of face

29:34

and eye surgery. Is it like facelift, necklif

29:37

lefroplasty, little finesse procedures

29:39

of the face, and also some kind

29:41

of hidden secret plastic surgery

29:44

procedures like temporal brell, clip

29:46

lift and you know, all those little things. And

29:49

then non surgically, I do a lot

29:51

of this term of art that I

29:53

invented about a decade ago of global

29:56

facial optimization, which is

29:58

things like profile balancing

30:00

with non surgical Rundo plus augmentation

30:03

giving the face greater symmetry with cheekmone

30:05

and jawlaine augmentation finesse

30:08

procedures that are designed to

30:12

keep somebody's identity but optimize

30:14

the way they look.

30:15

I want to move in with you. I

30:17

feel like if I do that.

30:19

I feel like, if I do that, I'll just wake up,

30:22

like yeah.

30:25

With all the kids, cats, we would

30:27

like probably not even.

30:28

Know, so you know, I wish I had more kids, So

30:30

six kids is not scare me. I love it.

30:31

I want kids, not so much the cats, but

30:34

I would love the new face and all the kids.

30:36

I'd be so happy.

30:40

I love having you, Laura. You are

30:42

brilliant. You are so beyond

30:44

impressive. You're so beautiful, you're so

30:46

sweet, you're so smart, all the things. I

30:49

can't wait to jump into

30:52

your office.

30:54

I can't wait.

30:55

I can't wait to see you so soon.

30:57

It was so fun chatting to you, and I think that

31:00

you're somebody who has done so much

31:03

to really move the needle on

31:06

fashion and how everybody integrates

31:08

little decisions into their daily life

31:10

with their personal style. And

31:12

I really adore all the stuff that you've

31:14

done.

31:14

Well right back at you. I loved having

31:17

you.

31:17

This was so much fun, and keep

31:19

doing keep working your magic

31:22

on everyone, because I mean, we're

31:24

all just in line.

31:32

Thank you so much to doctor Devkin

31:34

for being on the pod. At

31:37

first thought, I mean, you think cosmetic

31:39

surgery just seems like, oh my god, it's the thing

31:41

everybody gets to transform their face and look

31:43

this and have the perfect jawnline and the cheekbone

31:45

and whatever. But I was so blown away

31:48

by doctor Devkin's ability to break

31:50

down how plastic surgery is

31:53

really about building your

31:55

confidence, gaining your sort

31:57

of true identity, and you're

31:59

just overall how you feel about yourself every

32:02

day and your confidence and not just

32:04

about how you look on the outside.

32:07

I don't know. This episode was one of my favorites.

32:09

I literally could have asked her like seventy thousand

32:11

more questions because I think the topic

32:13

of cosmetic surgery, I'm pretty sure

32:15

I don't go a day without hearing someone

32:18

talk about it on some level.

32:21

And I think it's this massive

32:23

umbrella that is dominating pop

32:25

culture in so many ways, and I think

32:28

it can be very detrimental. But I think

32:30

that doctor Dovkin's approach to it

32:32

is just so you know,

32:34

she's so gifted, she's so talented, she's so natural,

32:37

she's so effortless. If you could see

32:39

the women that I know that she works

32:41

with, they don't look like they've done a

32:43

thing. They just look absolutely beautiful

32:46

and like the absolute best version of themselves.

32:49

So thank you so much for listening to

32:51

Climbing and Heels. If you haven't already,

32:53

please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts,

32:56

Spotify, the iHeart app, or wherever

32:58

you get your podcasts, so don't miss a

33:01

single episode this season, and

33:03

follow the show at clembing in Hiales pod

33:05

for the latest episodes and updates.

33:07

I will talk to you soon.