0:00

So when your best friend says you

0:02

need to have a disclaimer in the beginning

0:04

of your podcast Because the lawyer

0:07

and her is scurremen , you

0:10

do it . Here's my disclaimer I

0:12

am not a doctor , I am not a therapist

0:14

, I am not even an expert . I

0:17

am you . I am bring in

0:19

information to you as I see

0:21

it , but don't take my advice . Make

0:23

your own choices and make them good

0:26

choices . On with the show .

0:32

Welcome to the podcast where we talk about

0:34

cannibal community

0:36

violation .

0:41

In my situation . I Went

0:44

to a , went out with

0:46

my friend and we went over to this guy's

0:48

house and he had it was like a party more or less

0:50

and there was drinking and there was

0:52

smoking and there was things going around nothing

0:54

that was really out of the norm For

0:56

a party that you're going to , you

0:58

know , at 20 . No , maybe I was 19

1:01

, anyway . So I met this party . It

1:03

was an abnormal , but the way

1:05

I was feeling was abnormal . I was

1:08

so gone that

1:10

I couldn't even really Move

1:12

my body . It felt really , really heavy and

1:15

my friend ended up leaving because she liked

1:17

a guy and she was out of there and left me there

1:19

and ended up staying there . And

1:22

you know it was a situation of a lot of no's

1:24

and a lot of not listening and

1:27

a lot of regret on my part , because

1:30

I allowed myself to get there

1:32

. And in the last episode , one thing I did

1:34

want to pull out was I Don't

1:36

drink a lot out . You know , I'm

1:39

more comfortable drinking in my own home

1:41

and I'm more comfortable , just

1:43

just I can . I'm more relaxed , I feel

1:46

safer and I think it all stems from

1:48

that . So I've always been the designated

1:50

driver After that and

1:52

I kind of was before that this just enhanced

1:55

something that was already there and

1:57

and validated any

1:59

feelings of Not

2:02

feeling safe and feeling out of control

2:04

sometimes . You know , I don't like

2:06

feeling like that , so I Don't

2:09

know . I hope I'm explaining that right it you

2:11

are okay . Yeah . So I'm

2:13

more the square in the group and it's

2:15

not because I Necessarily want to be

2:17

, it's just it's a self-protecting type

2:20

thing and I think it's . I think

2:22

it's done me well Because

2:24

it's kept me out of a lot of trouble that

2:26

I've probably would have been in , because I

2:29

mean , who doesn't like to party and have a Good time ? You

2:31

know , I just have that safety mechanism

2:33

that kicks in and I think I've kind

2:35

of passed that onto my kids a little bit because I

2:38

I'm an example to them for that and

2:41

they notice it . So if I have one drink

2:43

and we're at a restaurant , I'm just talking

2:45

like a drink , like a margarita , whatever . They

2:48

look at me because it's outside

2:50

the norm and they look like are you gonna

2:52

be okay to drive like they always good , they

2:54

hyper , it's ? It's obviously , yes , I'm okay

2:56

to drive , it's one , but that's

2:59

good . I would rather them question me

3:02

and make sure I'm okay , because that means they're gonna question

3:04

themselves and that means they're gonna question their friends

3:06

and I'm down with that . So

3:09

I'd rather be a little bit overboard on that situation

3:11

. But we were also

3:13

walking into more of your conversation

3:16

at the time of the cutoff and

3:18

I'm trying to remember you

3:21

had gotten date raped by a clean-cut

3:25

white bread type

3:27

?

3:28

yeah , guy and you

3:31

know we were huh .

3:32

Yeah , that's where we were .

3:34

We were deep in and I know at the time

3:36

I wasn't gonna go into much detail , but it's

3:38

actually good . We had some time in between the episodes

3:41

because I listened to it and I was able to like Notice

3:44

things that I was just classing over , like you said

3:46

, and I feel like that's where people are

3:48

gonna really yeah

3:51

, that's right . So I wasn't

3:53

gonna say much about that , but now I'm like no , I should

3:55

, because I think it's it's relatable for a

3:57

lot of women . I mean your situation

3:59

you were drinking and you

4:02

know someone took advantage of you in a the most major

4:05

way . They're , you know , like total

4:07

breach of trust , just like that's rape

4:09

. And for women it's so hard for us

4:11

to say whether it's rape or not because we kind

4:13

of blame it on ourselves , like you even said , like I

4:16

was upset with myself for even getting

4:18

into that situation , but that doesn't mean it's your fault and

4:20

that's kind of what we as women do a lot of times

4:23

. You know where it's like when

4:25

you think of rape . It's like , oh , it's a stranger you don't

4:27

know , and he's holding you down and he's forcing you and

4:29

you're screaming , and then that's what rape looks like . That's what

4:31

a lot of people think and like . That's not what it

4:33

usually is . It's usually more subtle , like

4:36

what you went through or like what I went through

4:38

, and so that's why it's like I should talk about it .

4:40

But um good point because you play it

4:42

down like I'm playing it down . I

4:44

literally wanted to refilm it because

4:46

I felt like maybe I played it up too much and

4:48

I'm like wait . It really is . It

4:50

really is it happened ?

4:52

Yeah , I said no , you said no

4:54

and you weren't gonna , even if

4:57

you said yes , you weren't in a place to save

4:59

that , but you said no , you

5:01

know you still had the cognition to say

5:03

no and they , you know , took advantage of

5:05

the fact that you Couldn't fight back

5:07

at that time . Probably you were too drunk . You're

5:09

probably going in and out of consciousness at that point yeah

5:12

, I was , yeah , so , and

5:14

then you don't drink often , so it just it hit

5:16

you and and for me it was , it was the

5:18

symbol , it was similar , it was a very gray thing

5:20

and you know we talked about it because you said you

5:22

how to chant .

5:23

You ended up confronting your Rapist

5:25

right like tell me what you didn't go into that

5:27

I didn't , I okay . Yeah , I forgot .

5:29

That's the most important part of the story difference

5:31

in our stories and I want to hear yours

5:33

, and then I'll kind of go through what happened with mine

5:35

.

5:36

Okay , so I , you

5:39

know , I left there . I never saw him again , I never talked

5:41

to him again , I never thought of him again . You know , it was

5:43

gone . And then , randomly

5:46

, I started dating this guy and

5:48

he was friends with that guy . So

5:51

I'm over there and he's mentioning

5:54

this name and I know this name and like

5:56

, what , hold on , you know

5:58

him ? And he told me , yeah , he's

6:00

one of my best friends , I

6:02

know . And I'm like , okay , will he

6:05

rape me ? And that's the first time

6:07

I ever verbalized it , like

6:09

it was here but it was never there . And

6:11

he's like what ? And I'm like , wait

6:14

, wait , let me rethink what I just said . Yeah

6:16

, I'm accusing somebody of something . You know , I

6:18

need to be sure of what I'm . No , I

6:20

repeated the words again . I said he raped

6:22

me and he was like well , let's

6:25

go talk to him , shall we ? He's

6:27

like I want to hear what happened . I'm like , okay

6:30

, let's go . So we went there and

6:32

he introduces us . And he's like and

6:34

I go , oh , I think he remembers me . And

6:37

I was like , yeah , he raped me . And

6:40

of course , he started to fight that conversation

6:42

. I did not what are you talking about ? I did not

6:45

. I said well , let's replay the whole thing back and

6:47

I start talking through the whole thing . I said I couldn't move . I

6:49

said no , and you didn't stop and

6:53

he couldn't fight me . He wasn't able

6:55

to come up with any excuse

6:57

why I was wrong and he was right

7:00

. So he

7:02

just basically acknowledged that

7:04

he didn't see it that way at

7:06

the time and he is

7:09

sorry that it came out and came

7:11

across and all that happened and

7:16

I guess I accepted his apology . I

7:19

told him that . I said I'm never gonna forget this . We're

7:21

not friends . I just needed

7:24

to tell you how I felt . It's more for me than

7:26

it is for you . Now you can live with the fact that

7:28

you did that . Wow , and yeah , and

7:30

that was it .

7:31

Have you ever seen him again , or anything ?

7:33

No , but I heard about him through because

7:36

I still okay . So the guy was cash and

7:38

I've known cash since I was 20 and

7:40

we still text and talk now

7:42

and so

7:44

I would hear little things about how he was

7:47

doing and he never

7:49

went on to do anything great . He's kind

7:51

of a loser actually . Hey

7:54

, Carmen's a bitch man . I could

7:56

tell he genuinely felt badly

8:00

for whatever that's worth

8:02

. I really could

8:04

Like holy shit , because

8:06

I think he was just as wasted . And

8:10

I'm not giving him excuses , I'm just trying to . I'm

8:12

the type of person that wants to see both sides of a story

8:14

and he didn't

8:16

fight me on it , which

8:18

gave sincerity to what

8:20

he was saying Not that it's right

8:23

, so I don't want people to take it the wrong way

8:25

, like I'm validating him , doing that . I'm just trying

8:27

to understand it . I feel like I learned in that

8:29

situation and I'm glad I got a chance to do that

8:31

. And , as you were saying you didn't get

8:33

that , Do you think that would have changed anything for

8:35

you had you had that moment

8:38

? Yeah , yeah , I don't think so .

8:40

No , because maybe if

8:42

I explained . So what happened was it was a guy I'd been

8:44

dating and we'd had a

8:46

couple of dates , and

8:49

I stayed the night with him after one of these dates , and

8:52

we did have sex that night . After that

8:54

, like that night , we did Next

8:56

morning I get up to leave

8:58

, and he wanted to again , and we didn't have

9:00

condoms , and so I was like no , I don't want to

9:02

. And that is what happened . Is that it turned

9:05

into you know , no , I'm serious

9:07

. And him like yeah , yeah , you do , and it like he

9:09

made it playful at first , and so I'm like no , really

9:11

. And then the next thing , like he's

9:13

wrestling me on the bed , but he's still acting like it's

9:16

playful , and I'm like no , seriously , no

9:18

, I don't want to , and I'm like wrestling

9:20

them back . I'm still not screaming

9:22

or doing any of that classic things you think

9:24

you're supposed to do , though and he

9:26

ended up like ripping the buttons off my paint . I

9:28

remember like ripping my pants , like ripping the button

9:31

off , and like got my pants off and

9:33

spread my legs apart . All

9:35

in just like this wrestling it's all in the name of wrestling

9:37

, even though I'm saying no and I'm saying stop , like no

9:40

, I got to go , please , let me go , please , you

9:42

know . And then when he got to the point

9:44

of like ripping my pants off and

9:47

seeing that I think this is a difference in

9:49

me and what I've been through in my past

9:51

and where I didn't keep

9:53

fighting , at that point , once he got my pants off , it

9:55

was like I just shut down , like yeah

9:57

, it's going to happen , because that's , you

10:00

know , it was like I done . I'd have it always

10:02

had , like to where my body's , my own , and

10:04

I haven't always had a boundary or you know , I guess , is

10:06

what the word ? Like I didn't realize

10:08

that I could still keep fighting

10:10

, like I just shut down and went somewhere

10:12

else . Like Kyle , that's what I did when I was a kid , like

10:15

I just shut down and kind of let it happen

10:17

at that point because fighting wasn't working

10:19

and so that

10:21

was my , you know , escape , that was my

10:23

defense mechanism was just shut down and

10:25

get it over with . And so I

10:27

didn't really realize I was raped at the time

10:30

. Like when it happened , I

10:32

just got dressed and left really quick , like I want

10:34

nothing to do with them , and I just left , and I was thoroughly

10:37

freaked out and I was young , I was only like 22

10:39

. And I

10:41

had so much sexual trauma already

10:43

you know it's like I didn't and so I just left and felt

10:46

horrible and dirty and like just all the icky

10:48

things , and I was

10:50

really bothered . And

10:53

, like I said , at the time I still had my guy

10:55

, my ex , my high school sweetheart guy that was

10:57

here and we were always on and off and his

11:00

cousin came over . I know

11:02

him , I remember him , and his cousin came over a couple of days

11:04

later and she just knew I was off

11:06

, like something . I was upset , you know . She could tell

11:08

and she's just kept saying , phoebe , what is going on , what is up with

11:10

you ? And I finally told her cause I was

11:12

like I was upset and I hadn't

11:14

talked to anyone about it , and she's like asking me what

11:17

is going on . And I trusted her enough to tell her and she

11:19

was just like Phoebe , you're raped . And I'm like

11:21

, well , no , like no . She's

11:23

like , yeah , you were . And I'm like , well , you

11:27

know , it was like I had to think , like I

11:30

guess I was like I could

11:32

say no . I did say no and he didn't listen

11:34

and it . So it was very gray

11:36

for me and so now

11:39

I like I said , now that I'm an adult . I'm like oh

11:41

, that's what . That was 100% Like I just didn't

11:43

. Just because I didn't keep fighting

11:45

and I stopped fighting at a point doesn't mean I

11:47

gave in or like I wanted

11:49

to , I still didn't . I just fighting

11:52

wasn't working and I stopped fighting too

11:54

, Phoebe .

11:55

So I had . That's why I , that's why

11:57

saying it for the first time was

11:59

very , very real , because I'm like I'm about

12:02

to accuse somebody of something and

12:04

I kept doubting myself . I'm like no , I

12:07

was very clear many , many

12:09

times no , and

12:12

just wasn't listening . So I think

12:14

that yeah , I mean

12:16

no , no means no , no

12:18

is no . I'm not . You

12:21

know , I'm no . I'm making it sound like it was an easy

12:23

confrontation . When I saw this guy , it wasn't

12:25

like I know , it wasn't really nervous

12:27

.

12:28

I mean it says a lot about you and your character that

12:30

you knew and you felt . I mean , I

12:32

think it's about like what I was talking about , that validation

12:34

, like when you mentioned , you know , when you're a kid and you're

12:36

molested , and your parents validated

12:38

you and said this was not right , christy , and we let's

12:41

, what do you want to do ? We'll stand up for you . And

12:43

and when I was , it was just like Just

12:47

move on with life , like just figure out how to

12:49

keep getting by , and so that's , that

12:51

was how I handled it . And it's

12:54

just like thinking about the different ways

12:56

people are handle things and how for

12:58

survivors . You know , it's just like I'm sure there's going to be people

13:00

that hear this and some went one way and

13:02

some went the other , and we're both here and , like you

13:05

know , we're the 2 different examples . And after

13:07

that I did start developing boundaries , that kind

13:09

of let me know , like I can't have boundaries and

13:11

and I did get more . You

13:13

know , this is my body and I can't say no . So

13:16

it did help me with that a little bit . Just

13:19

this week I randomly I was looking

13:21

for a photograph and I got

13:23

my old trunk out , which has like all kinds of old

13:25

stuff , you know , like the old your old school

13:27

stuff , pictures your parents say for you or whatever

13:30

those types of things , just old things . And I

13:33

found a

13:35

box of cards like and I was just kind of sorting through

13:37

it really quickly because I was looking for picture the

13:39

specific picture that I just can't find is

13:41

driving me nuts and and

13:44

when I was flipping through that , the bottom one was like

13:46

it was an envelope , it was a card

13:48

, I can tell , and I looked at the address , like

13:50

it just popped out at the very , it

13:52

was the bottom of the stack and when I looked at it

13:54

it was to my mom when

13:56

she was in treatment and the like the return

13:59

address , like it was my handwriting as a kid . And

14:01

so I'm like , oh shit , this was when one of her

14:03

first trips to treatment . And

14:05

I opened the card and

14:07

I , just after reading it , of course , I

14:09

just started balling and

14:12

I honestly was like this is probably something

14:15

, like this is stuff I should talk about . Because again

14:17

, I glossed over and made it sound

14:19

like , oh , my mom got clean and

14:21

it was like not that simple , you

14:23

know , just like what you were saying like in front of him . You

14:25

say it in an easy manner . It wasn't easy

14:27

and again , this is really the details

14:30

that are going to mean something to somebody , probably because

14:32

you know , I it

14:34

just was a lifelong disease and even though now

14:36

now she's been clean like I said , this

14:38

was her 40th year it didn't just

14:40

like she got clean back when I was a kid and then

14:43

that was that and that's you know what you

14:45

kind of hear and that's how I make the story sound

14:47

. But like I remember how hard

14:49

it was still with her getting clean when I was a child

14:51

and then after that it just

14:53

was like a pattern of

14:55

you know , she'd get close to relapse

14:58

again or she'd get close to suicide

15:00

and she'd end up in treatment again , and that was part of

15:02

what happened after . Like that was where it

15:06

just continued when I was a kid and we didn't go into that

15:08

and I really was thinking I should rewind it

15:10

and talk about that . You got to tell us what the letter , what

15:12

you read , I was writing her car

15:15

, like I said , dear mom , and at the time

15:17

, mind you , she's , she's in treatment , you know that's

15:19

at least 30 days , 30 to 60 days . I'm

15:21

in , I'm in elementary school and

15:24

my oldest sister is maybe 19

15:26

. She had a kid at this point . She , she got

15:28

pregnant young and had a kid at 17

15:31

. So she probably was , you know , 18

15:33

, 19 . And she's the one that's just having to take care

15:36

of me and my other sister while

15:38

my mom's in treatment , which that's kind of a big load

15:40

, you know . So it's like it's a lot more of her

15:42

having to be a mom . So it was me

15:44

writing her just saying like I'm probably going

15:46

to cry again . You know , like

15:48

mom it was , so I was so happy seeing

15:50

you last weekend . I can't wait to come

15:52

visit again . The

15:57

thing that got me , though , because I just said when you

15:59

, when you come home , do

16:01

you think we could go for

16:03

more walks and talk ? Like

16:05

, could we go for walks and talk more

16:07

often ? That's what I asked in the letter was not

16:09

, like you know , for my son , if I was

16:12

gone to work for a couple days , he's going to

16:14

write me a letter and be like when you get home

16:16

, could you buy me a fortnight game ? You

16:19

know kids now , but it was just like the

16:21

simple , like all I wanted . Like , when you

16:23

get back home , can we just go

16:25

for a walk and talk more ? Like again

16:28

that just , can I have a little bit more of your attention

16:30

when you get home ? It was just . It was hard

16:32

to read it , because I was like fuck , that is what I was Caleb's

16:35

age right now , literally right now , that's . If

16:38

I hadn't of got got it together

16:40

the way I did , it could be Caleb writing a letter like that to

16:42

me and that just would break my heart to think of him doing

16:45

it . And now , now that I can put in a perspective

16:47

like that , it breaks my heart . Even for me , as you know

16:49

, like the , you talk about your under child

16:51

. Like it breaks my heart .

16:53

You just wanted . You just wanted your mom you

16:56

know you just want a time , real time

16:58

.

16:59

You know , but it was just like I can't wait

17:01

. Hopefully I can come visit you again soon

17:03

and and when you get home ? That was

17:05

the sentence . That was like , oh , I was like got

17:07

punched , like oh God , yeah , that was all I

17:09

wanted back then . And the treatment thing

17:11

, would you know , like I said , it was a cycle . She

17:13

went away quite often

17:16

, you know , even as an adult , she would have

17:18

to go away again . You know , it was just like that's . She'd

17:21

have to do that to keep herself

17:23

sane and to keep herself clean . And you

17:26

know so it was almost like taking care of herself

17:28

was still what

17:30

kept her away from us . Even , you know , once she started

17:32

doing that , so did she have .

17:34

Do you have any letters for her where you're

17:36

able to see any kind of return

17:38

.

17:38

I couldn't find any . But my mom was always when she

17:40

was home . She was always good about leaving me nice like

17:43

notes and cards . She would always write me notes . She'd

17:45

do that a lot and

17:47

, you know , especially once she got

17:49

out of college and started being a counselor herself

17:51

and you know , further

17:54

along in her recovery she would do

17:56

her best . You know she'd leave me notes about how lovable

17:58

I was . It was like she knew what to say to me . But by then

18:00

I was just so damaged that you know you

18:03

weren't really receptive . No

18:05

, or it was just like yeah , I didn't

18:07

the dance

18:09

, like , yeah , I was already the way I was

18:12

, you know , so it was helpful from her , but it was still

18:14

, you know you

18:18

know , but the other things I saw

18:20

too was letters from my dad

18:22

and that was something that you

18:25

know I kind of left off in the last podcast , like

18:27

yeah , they got a divorce and you know , once we

18:29

moved I didn't really see him , which that

18:31

was true Once we moved . I never saw

18:33

him . When we moved to the town that was 30 miles

18:35

away , that was far too far for him .

18:38

That's how far like it's like my dad is right now

18:40

.

18:42

That's where we moved . It was like 30 minutes away and back

18:44

then it was so far . But now I'm like , fuck her . We

18:46

were 30 miles away but

18:49

even though I never saw him

18:51

, he was still . He

18:54

come every now and then he'd want to get me for spring break or

18:56

, you know , maybe a couple days in the summer , and

18:59

my mom would make me come , like go , even

19:01

though she knew the history there , because

19:04

she didn't want him to ever be able to say

19:06

like that my mom was at fault

19:08

or she just was like I don't want to

19:10

. If he , I'm going to let him

19:12

be a dad as much as he wants to be a dad , kind of

19:15

, I guess . And I

19:17

have all kinds of cards and letters from him

19:19

that he would write me and send me after the divorce

19:22

. Sounds nice , right , the

19:24

fucking cards . Like now , as an adult again

19:26

reading them there , heartbreaking

19:29

for it . They'd be . It's just like I see

19:31

now , like why ? So

19:33

he would write cards and it would always just be

19:36

like I love you so much , honey , I wish you'd

19:38

come see me . Hopefully your mom

19:40

will let you come see me or you'll come see

19:42

me . It's like , bro , you're a fucking adult . How

19:44

are you writing to your child saying I hope

19:46

you come see me . Like it was my fault . I'm

19:49

seven . How the fuck am I gonna come see you so

19:51

? yeah , I was like I still have those letters and cards

19:53

and I do remember

19:56

some of the times she , you know , I'd go stay

19:58

with them . I remember one well

20:00

, let me rewind because I could

20:02

. I remember one of the trips that I went and

20:05

I found out he was abusing the other lady's

20:07

daughter because I was asleep

20:09

in the living room like I was sleeping in the living room , when I

20:11

woke up and saw him coming out of her bedroom

20:13

and going back into his girlfriend's room .

20:15

But again , I am a child and I know

20:17

.

20:18

I just lay there like frozen

20:20

, like please don't come in here , and

20:24

I never . But the lady

20:26

, she did find out eventually . You know she's like she

20:28

found out and she did leave him and it

20:30

was crazy because she did live . Yeah

20:32

, she left him . She left him . She didn't press charges

20:34

, but she left him . And now that girl I know her

20:37

. She's like strung

20:39

out and I mean it's just sad because

20:41

it's like I don't know if that was why . I don't know

20:43

, you never know what plays into things , but it's just sad

20:45

that and I know that you know

20:47

and he

20:49

played a part in her story too . Yeah

20:52

, basically . And then he ended

20:54

up marrying another lady and she had a daughter . Do

20:56

you think he targeted that I don't you

20:58

know what I mean . So he ended up marrying

21:00

this next lady and I remember this was the last visit

21:03

I had . It was when I was in sixth grade . I went and spent

21:06

spring break with him and he was just like a dick to me . He was also mean

21:08

to me . It was something he was . He was really mean

21:10

to me just in general . I'd

21:13

be on the phone to him and I would be half listening to him because

21:15

of what he was saying . And I just remember he called me and he was drunk

21:17

. Him

21:22

and my uncle were together and they decided to call

21:24

me and so I remember I'm like writing on a piece of paper

21:26

, just kind of like doodling , to like kind of zone him out a little bit , but

21:29

still listening and talking , and I remember writing

21:31

like drunk , as a skunk , on the paper because he was drunk . And

21:34

my mom came in and she saw that and she's like your dad's drunk

21:36

, you're talking to him drunk right now . He's drunk right

21:38

now Like she's drunk . She's

21:44

drunk at this point . She's been off drugs

21:46

for several years . She got pissed

21:49

and she grabbed the phone and it was like , as soon as she

21:51

grabbed the phone from me , I just started bawling

21:54

because I had been holding it in , basically Like

21:56

sitting on the phone . I'm not going to cry . I'm not going to cry , I'm

21:58

just you know , I'm not paying attention . And

22:00

as soon as she grabbed the phone , I just start bawling

22:03

and my mom like started yelling

22:05

at him , like , just you know , cussing him out or whatever . And

22:07

then the next thing I know his

22:09

wife got on the phone . I

22:12

know that like , somehow I'm not going to

22:14

say her name , but somehow she ended up

22:16

on the phone and I just remember my mom yelling

22:18

and yelling at her and saying

22:20

check your daughter , check your fucking

22:22

daughter . Like check your . I

22:25

remember my mom yelling over and over , yelling in the

22:27

phone check your daughter , check your daughter , don't

22:30

fucking yell at me , check your daughter , ask your

22:32

daughter . And I was just like and

22:35

then hung up and she was like Phoebe

22:37

, you don't ever have to go see him again , Like

22:39

I don't care , it's up to you . Like I never

22:42

went and stayed with him again . I saw my dad , I remember

22:44

, once in like the parking lot of a grocery store and I

22:46

like duck , like I don't want to see him , I

22:48

don't want to talk to him . Like my step sister

22:50

would reach out to me every now and then

22:52

and say , like you really need to call him . He's changed . Like

22:55

he's different , he's not drinking

22:57

as much . You know , you guys should really try

22:59

to work on things , and so

23:01

that would prompt me to be like all right , and

23:03

so you know I might call and we might have a couple

23:05

of conversations and that you know it was

23:07

usually fizzle out pretty quickly because he wasn't

23:10

going to put forth a lot of effort . There's more to

23:12

this , of course , so

23:14

this whole episode is going to turn into my

23:16

dad . That's obviously

23:19

where the heart is . My um , oh

23:21

for sure . I had a

23:23

good friend I went to school with and

23:25

I was up visiting one weekend and we

23:27

were talking about so basically , her husband

23:29

was good friends with my step sister's ex husband . They

23:31

weren't married anymore .

23:32

Stop , let me count . Okay

23:35

, this friend , how old are you

23:37

in this friend at this point ? You're talking

23:40

like early 30s .

23:42

Okay so this is fairly in adulthood

23:44

. This was after all

23:46

those incidents .

23:48

I'm in a better friend

23:50

. Your friend is what

23:52

? How's her , how's she ?

23:53

My friend and her husband's like I went to school with them

23:56

, and then her

23:58

husband who , like I said , I know him too . He is

24:00

best friends with my step sisters

24:02

. Ex husband Wow

24:05

. Wow , that's my

24:07

steps His and my steps are had kids

24:09

. They had two kids together . They had a girl and a boy , and

24:12

I would see pictures of them on Facebook and I would

24:14

always wonder and worry about my dad with the cur

24:16

, the kid Okay .

24:18

So you see where I'm going , yeah , yeah , yeah Go ahead

24:20

.

24:20

So they were talking

24:22

about , like them getting a divorce and

24:24

he's having a hard time with , you know , the kids . And I'm

24:26

like man , I I'm just gonna

24:28

say this . I was like , cuz I

24:30

saw pictures of them on Facebook , like I had

24:32

saw it was a picture . I saw my dad with

24:34

those two kids , the grandkids . He caught

24:37

considering his grandkids even though they weren't you know . I

24:40

saw a picture of them together and I remember it just

24:42

made my stomach turn like and

24:44

also because the little girl looked , you know

24:46

, she was just a little chubby , brown-haired

24:49

girl and and I

24:51

just made me sick when I saw the picture of

24:53

them . And so my

24:55

friend is talking about them getting a divorce and him

24:57

having the kids . And I was like , look , I'm

25:00

just gonna say this . I said you do what . You

25:02

know , I just have to get this off my chest . I

25:04

said , but does need no

25:06

, like doesn't need to have those kids around him

25:08

anymore . I'm just gonna say , you know , I'm like

25:10

this is what happened . And I basically

25:12

laid it out and told her like my dad is Chester's

25:16

Tom Alester , like he's a fucking Chester , like do

25:18

with it what you will . You know , cuz she's like , well , can

25:20

I tell him and I'm like I don't care , yes , tell him I

25:22

don't care , cuz . She's like can I tell him like juice

25:25

, you know ? Like , ooh , fuck that . Yeah , tell him . Yeah

25:27

, tell him yeah , and

25:29

she did and and

25:31

he said something , but then it turned into like

25:33

oh , phoebe's lion , you know , phoebe was

25:35

lying , that never happened , of course .

25:37

What else is he gonna say oh sure

25:39

, I did it yeah .

25:42

So , and then what happened

25:44

? So that just officially , like

25:46

I don't know what happened with them they

25:48

said he was dying . That was that fast

25:51

forward to a couple years later , my dad

25:53

is dying . He has cancer . My sister's

25:55

not reached out and told me nothing , but his old friends

25:57

have reached out to me now on a Facebook and

25:59

said like , hey , david

26:02

, your dad , he's in the hospital , he's sick

26:04

, he's gonna be dying soon . You should

26:06

probably , you know , reach out to him . And I'm

26:08

pregnant with my son . And

26:10

so I'm 35 and I'm like , okay

26:13

, you know , I'm still all the shit we've been through

26:15

. I'm still like , okay , I'll give him

26:17

, you know , let me call . Like , yeah , my dad's dying

26:19

. It is my dad . Once again , you know , that's

26:21

the only dad I have . I'll call . I don't want to regret , I

26:23

don't want to have regrets . Let me call . This

26:25

fucking set mom answers and I say , hey

26:27

, I'm trying , you know ? Hi , this is

26:30

Phoebe is . Can I talk to my dad

26:32

? He can't talk right now . Okay , well

26:34

, can you let him know I called . Yeah , I'll let him

26:36

know . Do you think I ever hurt like that was that never

26:38

heard nothing again , like she wouldn't give him

26:40

the phone , like I think I called again . Maybe I

26:42

know she wouldn't give him the phone .

26:44

Do you think it's ? She was mad

26:46

because she heard about that conversation

26:49

.

26:49

So I didn't connect it at the time but I , yeah

26:52

, later was like that's what it was . So

26:54

I just had my son

26:56

. He was three weeks old . My dad did pass

26:58

, you know , I had a C-section , my kids

27:00

three weeks . I'm like I'm not driving

27:02

six hours to go to this funeral at

27:04

this point , my aunts even reaching out to me , which

27:06

I never had a relationship with them , but she's

27:08

also , like you know , trying to be

27:11

a decent person and she

27:13

sent me the obituaries and she had

27:15

told me this was gonna happen . But a fucking

27:17

bitch stepmom did not put me in the obituary

27:19

, didn't even put me in the fucking obituary

27:22

. I was his only biological child , my

27:24

son was his only grandchild and all she

27:26

put was her daughter and her kids

27:28

. Those kids , my aunt made an obituary

27:30

and they're in a different paper and and

27:32

put me , and so she sent me

27:35

both copies , your aunt being his

27:37

sister yeah his sister

27:39

yeah that says a lot too . So

27:41

I saw you as his daughter .

27:44

The irony here is the whole point of this

27:46

whole thing was to talk about the medication we're

27:51

just talking now . It's

27:56

very interesting .

27:57

It's super interesting my

28:01

sisters had now decided to move to Dallas

28:03

too , and my

28:05

Middle sister moved into

28:08

my same apartment building and she had

28:10

my niece and nephew with her . I was always a good aunt , I

28:12

was always very present with my nieces and nephews , and

28:15

they moved into my apartment building . And so that's when

28:17

I'm like , okay , I got to stop

28:19

with the criminal activity Because

28:21

, like , my niece and nephew are more important

28:23

and they're gonna be over here a lot and I can't have

28:25

something happen when they're here or have these

28:28

people here and like I'm not gonna tell my niece and

28:30

nephew they can't come over , and I just didn't want them to

28:32

see that side of me . And so I did . I stopped like

28:34

street life , just kind of like cold turkey

28:36

, which was . It's actually hard to do that because

28:38

it's an addiction too , you know . Yeah

28:41

, but then moving here , I stopped

28:43

it , just pulled the plug . I don't want them

28:45

to see that part of me . I don't want them to see that lifestyle

28:48

. So I stopped Then

28:50

with my family moving here , because now

28:52

my other sister moved here and I have nieces and nephews

28:55

here they're . Then they start harping on me on like when

28:57

are you gonna settle down ? Because I was still . You

29:00

know , I date guys . I'd have a different guy

29:02

, I'd have a different honey dip , like my mom

29:04

, you know . They started harping on me like , oh , you need

29:06

to settle down , you need to settle down and I

29:08

was . I didn't feel like I was ready for that . And

29:10

then I had a big like health scare again

29:13

. Like I said , I wasn't very healthy with

29:15

all the shit I was doing and I had . I ended

29:17

up with like they thought it was cancer . It

29:19

was like I went in just for an annual checkup but

29:21

I hadn't been in a couple years . It's hurting to like

29:23

, okay , you have to come back immediately and

29:26

do a cat scan and we think you

29:28

probably have cancer . It's a possibility , with

29:30

how your blood work looks and Something

29:32

like that'll just snap you like , oh shit

29:34

, yeah , you know . And so I had

29:36

the surgery Ended up not

29:39

me in cancer . Okay , so they went in

29:41

to see it went in I ended up having to have an emergency

29:43

history like partial hysterectomy or I don't remember

29:45

the name of it that's what they called it then , but

29:47

it's a different name . They took half of

29:49

my , like a tube and an ovary , and and

29:52

it ended up being like a tumor or cyst or something they

29:54

had to take out , and so recovering

29:56

from that was a really hard recovery to

29:58

my mom came and she stayed with me like

30:00

a Week or two , but once she left , like I was just

30:02

kind of on my own . My sisters lived

30:04

here but they weren't coming and helping me and

30:07

so that was a big like I do

30:09

. Maybe I do need a partner , maybe I do need to settle

30:11

down because I'm alone . You

30:13

know , like it was the first time

30:15

I realized like , oh , I am lonely , like

30:17

I'm just stuck in this house and I don't

30:19

have anyone to help me . My sisters aren't helping me , you

30:21

know , like my mom's gone . So that

30:24

was a big change for my whole mentality

30:26

of like shit , I'm looking at life or death and

30:29

I'm realizing how alone I am and Just

30:32

how my whole life has been a wreck , you know . So

30:36

, yeah , I guess healing and spending all that time

30:38

alone , this is when my

30:40

space is becoming a thing .

30:42

Mmm , I loved it .

30:44

I get on my space and I find one of my

30:46

exes who he was

30:48

a good friend . I used to work with him , you

30:50

know , he was a co-worker . He started as a friend

30:52

but we ended up dating at a point

30:55

and I cut him off because that's what I do . But

30:58

he was a nice guy . You know that's partly why I cut

31:00

him off . He was too nice of a guy . But I found

31:03

him on my space and I was just like , oh yeah , my old

31:05

friend Tucson Sent him

31:07

a message . Hey , you remember me ? He

31:09

immediately writes back . Hey , yeah

31:12

, when can I come see you ? And

31:14

he literally came over , like , because

31:16

I sent it on a Friday night , he responded

31:18

Saturday afternoon . He came over Saturday

31:21

night to watch a movie with

31:23

me . This is what I'm going through , my healing

31:25

and recovery and From

31:27

then on he just came and took care of me

31:29

. Like literally . It happened just like

31:31

that , like he came over that night . It wasn't like he was coming

31:34

back every day , but like he'd come

31:36

back every weekend , you know , when he wasn't working and

31:38

he'd come , and or even in the evening is just when

31:40

I'm home , recovered He'd come over and just like

31:42

, let's come on , I'll come watch a movie with you . He

31:44

would just come spend time with me when I'm late

31:46

up in the house for six weeks and can't go anywhere and can't

31:48

do anything , and so we bonded

31:51

pretty quickly over that and he

31:53

was just a good guy and a really sweet guy and

31:55

at the same time my mom was

31:57

now in a marriage . She was in another why

32:00

don't think they were married yet but she had been

32:02

in a relationship for Several

32:04

years at this point with a very nice

32:06

Indian man named Freddy

32:08

, who he

32:11

she knew him through recovery . He was also

32:13

a counselor , which was weird . They were both alcohol and drug

32:15

counselors .

32:17

He was just a real nice guy .

32:19

Yeah , she actually started dating him right before I

32:21

moved to Dallas and so I knew him , just

32:24

didn't know him that well . But

32:27

when I , me

32:29

and Tucson , got together and I had

32:31

all that shit happen , I just kind of realized how important

32:33

my mom was and how important , you know , she

32:37

was to me because she was there to take care of

32:39

me . And so I started going back to

32:41

visit her more often too and just be a better daughter

32:43

for her , you know , and

32:45

Tucson would go with me and you know I just started

32:48

being better for her and going up and seeing

32:50

her a lot because she lived far away . That's

32:52

when I started to get to know Freddy better and

32:55

he was good to my mom

32:57

and he was good to me and

32:59

he treated me like you know I was lovable

33:01

and and Between

33:03

him and Tucson . And then

33:06

also my job I have to credit that

33:08

I had a you know I worked in accounting and my

33:10

boss at the time he was super hard on me but

33:13

he gave me a promotion and he ended up telling

33:15

me I'm super hard on you because I know what you have

33:17

in you , feebie , like I know you're smart , you're

33:19

very smart and I know what you can do , and that's why

33:22

I'm hard on you , that's why I'm harder on you than everyone else

33:24

and he kind of just took me under his wing

33:26

as a mentor and and he

33:28

was a CFO and that was what led me

33:30

into my just staying in accounting and like a

33:32

full-on career in accounting was Jerry , and

33:35

so it was just weird that when I was 27

33:38

, all these things happen at once and

33:40

it just turned my whole life around . You know

33:42

, like these three men showing me love in different

33:44

ways and Freddy showing

33:46

my mom love , and

33:49

then my nieces and nephews suddenly live in here and

33:51

I had to like Be a good

33:53

example for them , as best example as I could be . So

33:56

those are the things that Turn

33:58

me into a different direction . It's just

34:00

been like a continued growth pattern ever

34:02

since that happened in when I was 27

34:04

. That's what it is .

34:06

I can say that you know we

34:08

have code green plant . So we've

34:11

been talking a long time and and

34:13

the one consistent person Besides

34:15

your mom and your son and your husband is

34:18

Freddy , mm-hmm . You

34:20

always and I started to pick up on that

34:22

without you telling me your story , but

34:25

you'd go into stories about him and you

34:27

would light up when you would talk about him and

34:29

you know it . It you

34:32

can just tell that you

34:34

needed him .

34:36

Yeah , yeah , you know Really

34:38

good and it was really organic . You know

34:40

, it wasn't forced . Like I said , he'd been with my mom

34:43

Shit seven , eight years before

34:45

we really started building a relationship and it was

34:47

because we just spent time together and liked each other

34:49

. And he was a good guy , you know , and he would

34:51

spoil my mom , you know . He um

34:53

, and he had his own

34:55

issues which probably , you know , helped for us

34:58

to connect . He wasn't some straight cookie

35:00

cutter , you know . He Was

35:02

in recovery . He was an addict , or recovering

35:05

addicts . He had severe PTSD because

35:07

he was in Vietnam and he was like

35:09

first cab . He was on the ground

35:11

, like he was a grunt , what they called

35:13

him and he saw some shit and did some shit

35:15

. And when I went to college I went to

35:17

college too at this time , like that's when I started

35:19

going to college , when I was 28 I Did

35:22

papers on him , like I would do research papers

35:25

on Vietnam , and so I could

35:27

learn more about him and talk to him about his experiences

35:29

, because I was just interested in it too and and

35:32

he taught us a lot about , you

35:34

know , our native traditions and because that was stuff we

35:36

didn't grow up around and he's full . He

35:39

was half Santa Cacayuga , half San Juan

35:42

Pueblo Okay , a wing gay , and

35:44

so we were very involved in the tribe

35:46

. He was still part of that and so my mom loved it

35:48

. You know my mom loved it up there with him in Oklahoma

35:51

, loved it , and she

35:53

was there for years and I loved it and I would go

35:55

up and you know it was almost became like

35:57

a second home to me up there and with With

36:00

everybody and it was all just . You know Freddy and his

36:02

family and they're just amazing , all of them . I

36:04

miss him all so much .

36:05

What happened ? Oh , so

36:07

they got married . They got married eventually

36:10

. How long , how long were they together ?

36:12

Oh , I

36:14

mean until he passed away , probably

36:16

20 years . He got lung

36:18

cancer and

36:20

he was a smoker . My mom and him were both , you know , cigarette

36:23

smokers . He'd got lung cancer and we weren't sure

36:25

really if it was from cigarettes or

36:27

agent orange , because that's what he

36:29

kind of Figured . He was gonna get cancer at some point

36:31

because he was exposed to so much agent orange in

36:33

Vietnam and

36:36

so he did get it and he

36:38

had went into remission eventually

36:40

. But when he

36:43

he also he used to jump out of helicopters

36:45

when he was in Vietnam and so

36:47

it messed his back up and he wouldn't get back surgery

36:50

. So he's in remission

36:52

. You know we've been going back and forth this

36:54

cancer shit . He , my mom

36:56

, was down visiting for Christmas

36:59

and Caleb was just born . Caleb has was

37:01

born at this point and he loved Caleb so

37:03

much . Oh , my god , caleb . I gave Caleb his middle

37:05

name Isaac that's Freddy's middle name

37:08

because he loved Caleb . Like he used

37:10

to say me and Caleb have a connection . Like he used to

37:12

tell my mom that and soon

37:14

as I found out I was pregnant he went and bought like

37:16

a Schwinn tricycle and like he sent

37:18

me like baby moccasins and

37:20

he was already spoiling Caleb before he got

37:22

here , man , and he was , you know , like

37:24

I said , he had a connection with him . He said

37:26

it himself , but he Ended

37:29

up falling and basically became

37:32

paralyzed Because

37:34

of his back issues . Cancer came , you

37:36

know , no longer in remission , cancer came back

37:38

. On his death certificate they actually

37:41

put that he died of PTSD related

37:43

symptoms because all this was related to the

37:45

war . You know , in the end , though , I mean

37:47

it just it's hard to think

37:49

about and it was hard to go through , but I'm so glad I did

37:51

it because I was there with him and you

37:54

know , I literally saw him . It was Crazy

37:58

how people can end up . I'd never

38:00

experienced something like that , like how

38:02

sick he was , because he was on like all these crazy ventilators

38:05

and they had him to where he was like unconscious

38:07

, but he was still moving , so his eyes would be closed . You

38:09

didn't even know if he could hear you . It

38:12

was just . It was really wild to go through . But

38:14

, like before he got to that point , I

38:17

remember him like yelling at the nurses at

38:19

one day when I went up there and he's holding my hand and

38:21

he's just yelling to the nurses . This is my

38:23

daughter . Do you see my daughter ? Like he

38:25

was so proud of me too . You know , it was just like

38:27

it was very mutual force , so it was . I

38:29

was happy to be able to be there with them at the end

38:31

, like that , you know , mm-hmm . So it

38:33

meant , you know , we just met a lot to each other .

38:35

He really showed you what

38:39

a Relationship

38:41

where the father should be yeah

38:43

, and also a woman

38:45

.

38:45

Like how he loved my mom yeah , love

38:47

my mom . I mean he was crazy about my

38:49

mom . You know he loved her so

38:51

much and he used to always say

38:53

the only woman he'd ever leave her for is Stevie Nicks

38:55

. But

38:58

I mean he just was crazy about my mom

39:00

.

39:01

We're not even done yet for

39:03

the audience watching . They saw

39:05

all this trauma happening to little

39:07

Phoebe . And Then here

39:09

they see resolution and

39:12

something positive for you . I didn't want to veer

39:14

into anything else Yet

39:16

, like they need to know , good things happen

39:19

to you . You know what I'm saying

39:21

. You have some so much , and today

39:23

was like there was a lot

39:25

of positives in today , but we're still

39:28

not . We're still not To

39:30

the point where we need to go to

39:32

yet , which is this

39:37

episode of code green plant was sponsored

39:39

by simply viban LLC .

39:41

Code green plant is a simply viban production

39:44

hosted by Christy Chanel along with her co-host

39:46

, phoebe James . This podcast

39:48

is not intended to be used for medical advice

39:51

and is solely the opinion of the host

39:53

. Please consult your physician . If

39:55

you enjoyed this episode , please be sure

39:57

to hit that like and subscribe button . And don't

39:59

forget to follow us on social media . Want

40:01

more ? Visit wwwsimplyvibeincom

40:05

. And a special thank you to the core

40:07

group of people who helped with the creation

40:09

of the code green plant podcast . We

40:12

appreciate you simply vibing with us , code

40:15

green plant .