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You're listening to Code Switch and Be

0:21

A Parker And today I'm joined by

0:23

one of the show's producers just kung.

0:26

ages. Hey. Parker. Okay,

0:29

Today I want to talk about

0:31

Japanese American musicians of different generations,

0:33

and particularly how their music relates

0:35

to the incarceration of people of

0:37

Japanese descent in the U S.

0:39

during World War Two. And

0:42

I want to start on and unbearably

0:44

cold morning on a snowy field and

0:46

Se Arkansas. Actually part of this is

0:49

a scene from a documentary I can

0:51

show you. So

0:56

there's a man in front of a

0:59

big stone marker. It cuts to him

1:01

standing in the vast snowy field playing

1:03

the violin. The.

1:06

Place is the site of the

1:08

Jerome War Relocation Center where more

1:10

than eight thousand Japanese Americans were

1:12

incarcerated over twenty one months. It

1:14

was the last camp to open

1:16

and the first to close. It

1:19

was so cool the my brain was

1:21

not function. You know, how was tuning

1:23

in the cold? An awful. That's the

1:25

violin player coward or Ishibashi. He usually

1:27

shortens his name to care, but he's

1:29

probably best known as Kitschy Bashi. My

1:32

name's Kishi Bashi. I'm a musician, I'm

1:34

a composer. Just made a movie. K

1:36

grew up in Virginia and his parents

1:38

emigrated from Japan in the seventies. And.

1:41

What he's playing here is what came

1:43

out of his experience: immersing himself in

1:45

the stories of To and other world,

1:47

where to incarceration camps and the broader

1:50

history of Japanese Americans who came before

1:52

him. He

1:57

turned that improvisation into this song

1:59

theme for. Around. It

2:09

was particularly painful to me when I realize that

2:11

this is an immigrant. Was

2:13

and force to. I

2:30

knew that I wanted to

2:32

write a melody the had

2:34

a Japanese flavor. he no,

2:36

no, no, no, none. The

2:38

lovely lot of Japanese songs

2:40

that are basically in that

2:43

skill. It's

2:46

a and atomic scale that

2:49

exists only in and coincidentally

2:51

in Ethiopia. You

2:55

have that melody with you when you've

2:57

heard on the words if remember Japanese

2:59

and it's just this kind of ghost

3:02

of your ancestors that you still remember

3:04

and seal, but you just. Got.

3:21

Friends. Know.

3:46

I. Think this song is a really

3:49

compelling. And a thing that's

3:51

interesting to me about it is

3:53

that this is essentially a fictional

3:55

lower by composed to tell this

3:57

story and it's in foreign by.

4:00

The and Music Theory and Empathy.

4:03

Thinking I saw us for coming summer. My

4:06

pencil pusher immigrants and us. I

4:08

said no direct connection to the

4:10

incarceration except that it would be

4:12

likes I would apply. Been in

4:14

is just to be clear, Ishibashi.

4:18

Isn't a direct descendant of the

4:20

Japanese. American incarceration. But

4:22

is making music? The bow?

4:25

The Japanese American incarceration. Yeah.

4:28

What? You just heard of a scene from

4:30

his album and documentary projects on reality. It's.

4:33

The result of him traveling to

4:35

a bunch of different sites of

4:38

incarceration, learning history, composing music, In

4:41

that scene, he's in Wyoming, near the

4:43

site of the Heart Mountain More Relocation

4:45

Center and a half restored Berrick. It's

4:47

his first visit to the site and

4:49

he's throwing a community outreach concert for

4:51

a crowd of locals. It's really kind

4:53

of in the middle of nowhere Cody,

4:55

Wyoming, you know, And it's like it's

4:58

in. it's like the least popular state,

5:00

or there's more thousand people and. Ah,

5:03

that was really early on, so I'm

5:05

really fumbling around and feeling insecure about

5:07

knowing if I even deserve to be

5:09

telling the story. I.

5:11

Think that discomfort he's describing is

5:14

one reason why this whole thing

5:16

is interesting to me. Different

5:19

ways of immigrants, even of from

5:21

the same mother country, aren't always

5:24

guaranteed to share a lot. You

5:26

know there can be disparities in

5:28

education, class, dialects, language, politics, But

5:31

says. It's also clearly

5:33

not nothing. I. Mean

5:36

yeah. But. And serious

5:38

why people of different Japanese

5:40

American background seem to reach

5:42

for this history like. A.

5:45

Good amount of oh my God of

5:47

is Kissy bossy. Reflecting on how learning

5:49

this history made him pre examine his

5:51

identity, he says he didn't really have

5:54

a Japanese American community growing up like

5:56

at school. He learned to ignore that

5:58

part of himself as the. These you

6:00

know. Who's

6:02

gonna hit behind her and as the

6:04

veneer of I'm. Just. I am

6:06

lenders your friend here. I'm not like Asian. And.

6:09

When he was coming up as

6:11

a musician in the early two

6:13

thousand, he was really conscious of

6:15

how Japanese his image could be.

6:17

being a male, Asian violinists very

6:19

like characterize and kind of a

6:21

stereotype almost so I had to

6:23

like find a balance as being

6:25

like a cool. Isn't. Violinist.

6:27

or just a violinist who also happen

6:30

to be a isn't I didn't wanna

6:32

be like world music. So

6:34

I was very conscious to

6:36

find a slight Japaneseness in

6:38

a very white indie rock

6:40

world. For. What it's worth tissue

6:42

by she sings and Japanese across all

6:44

of his albums that. Seems like a

6:47

contradiction, right? He. Was

6:49

trying to downplay been

6:51

Japanese while also being

6:54

undeniably Japanese. Yeah, I mean

6:56

it's it's like sunlight legible to me, but

6:58

it is this kind of like messy thing.

7:01

I think it's something. I came into sharper

7:03

relief when K started working with people who

7:05

are third or fourth generation Japanese American. We

7:07

used to set of. Key. Sometimes

7:10

because it was like a you saying

7:12

in Japanese and so how like how

7:14

do you see that separation between like

7:16

the Japanese party's you and the American.

7:18

Parts as you were going to get into

7:20

that question and who's asking it later. But.

7:23

First, let's do a quick

7:26

explanatory comma. After

7:29

the attack on Pearl Harbor and Nineteen Forty

7:31

Two. Almost. Every person of

7:33

Japanese ancestry on the West coast,

7:35

which is where almost an entire

7:37

population lived, were sent to quote

7:40

war relocation camps. That's.

7:42

About one hundred and twenty two thousand

7:44

people. Decades. Later for

7:46

Us government actually admitted wrongdoing

7:48

that it was a racist

7:50

and knee jerk policy. They

7:53

offered a national apology and

7:55

financial redress. In the

7:57

nineties, surviving detainees are given a check

7:59

for. Twenty thousand dollars. And

8:03

in a way, it's a huge

8:06

reason we have so much public

8:08

memory of incarceration today. Japanese American

8:10

historical projects got funded by people

8:12

donating from the redress checks. When

8:40

I present the songs I don't really

8:42

intense people to learn the complete sexual

8:44

history of was I'm trying to tell.

8:46

I just wanted to be a taste

8:49

of the emotions involved and to cultivate

8:51

this kind of empathy so that you

8:53

go back and learn more about it.

9:11

Kissy. Bashi songs and on my out

9:13

a reference and respond to this history

9:16

without. you know been to Schoolhouse Rock

9:18

about it. But on.

9:20

That no Parker can I confessed

9:23

something. Always. I'm pretty

9:25

sure. I first learned about Japanese

9:27

American Internment from Might Say No to

9:29

the Wrapper from Lincoln from now on

9:31

gas. Oh, when I was a kid

9:34

my older cousin played me a song

9:36

from his side project Fort Minor the

9:38

remember the Name some ah. This

9:41

is from that same album from

9:43

Two Thousand and Five. The song

9:45

is called Kenji, my father De

9:47

Pan and nineteen or fi he

9:50

was fifteen One. Immigrants

9:52

send out. His father's family was incarcerated

9:54

at Mans and Are and he wrote

9:57

this song based on interviews with relatives.

10:06

Amy now. Compared to like

10:08

the theme for it's around like

10:10

Ishibashi, the song is very. Who.

10:12

Literal. Any

10:26

very earnest, it's probably one

10:28

of the most. Just.

10:31

Explicit songs about this

10:33

incarceration that's ever been

10:35

put out by someone

10:37

this mainstream and. At

10:39

least for me as a kid Learning

10:41

this story, knowing it affected someone from

10:43

a band I thought was very cool.

10:45

and I still think Lincoln Park is

10:48

really cool. And

10:50

learning that he was Asian American in this

10:52

way that I didn't understand yet. Mattered.

10:57

So. I want to know more

10:59

about what this particular chapter of history

11:01

means for Japanese. Americans have all kinds.

11:04

Regardless, Of their relationship to

11:07

incarceration. I

11:09

know a bow and

11:11

I look good in

11:13

mans. Coming.

11:16

Up, We're going to peel

11:18

back more Japanese American incarceration

11:20

history through different generations of

11:22

musicians. Like. Yes of course think

11:24

you're gonna give you find a way to sing. The.

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13:14

Jeff. Code Switch. Now

13:18

Jeff, you've been telling us about

13:20

Japanese American musicians who have been

13:23

influenced by stories of World

13:25

War II incarceration camps. Yeah,

13:27

it's become a defining story

13:29

for Japanese American identity. Before,

13:33

during, and after wartime, people had

13:35

to make these navigations. Were

13:38

they gonna prove themselves to be good US

13:40

citizens? And did that mean they

13:42

would have to be less Japanese? It

13:45

becomes this sort of assimilative quest, that you

13:47

want to be American. You were just

13:49

recently put in a prison because you were not

13:51

American enough. So how do you prove that you

13:53

are 200% American? This

13:57

is historian Erin Aoyama. She's

14:00

getting her phd in American Studies at

14:02

Brown University, and she's also a curatorial

14:04

assistant at the Japanese American National Museum.

14:07

Her. Work focuses on the Japanese

14:09

American experience, particularly World War

14:11

Two and redress. And

14:14

she tries to think of this

14:16

need to assimilate. In. Context.

14:19

People were just trying to survive

14:21

and cells summers like extending a

14:23

historical kindness perhaps tubes my ancestors

14:25

is to say like you didn't

14:27

have time to think about how

14:29

you are maintain his your cultural

14:31

traditions or it's whether you. Were

14:33

you know teaching our children Japanese and keeping

14:35

that up? It was sort of the like,

14:37

are you okay. Aaron. As Yonsei,

14:40

or fourth generation Japanese American.

14:42

She grew up in New England where

14:44

she says as a kid she loved

14:47

how the historical stories about Revolutionary War

14:49

and Colonial America were reflected in places

14:51

she could see and visit for herself.

14:54

She. Didn't know about camp. We.

14:56

Never talked about it. When. Aaron.

14:58

With a little older though maybe middle

15:01

school age, she got the inkling of

15:03

how her family was part of this

15:05

bigger sorry. I. Remember at

15:07

one point my dad saying to me

15:09

just around the dinner table like mentioning

15:11

this. Place heart mountain at my grandmother.

15:14

Had lives during the war and the name stuck with

15:16

me because it has it's sort of like. Beautiful

15:19

sound to it is sort of

15:21

like romantic. you know? I. Don't know.

15:23

I didn't really know what to camp, was not

15:25

really sure that my dad had a full understanding

15:27

of like camp was. Aaron. Held

15:29

onto this fact, she kind of waited

15:31

for it to come up later in

15:33

Us History class. the late. It

15:36

didn't. Yeah, I mean I barely.

15:38

Learned about it in high school. same. And

15:40

I think that sort of lit a fire

15:43

and me a little bit because I was

15:45

sad I didn't get it like share my

15:47

own simply story and history class but also

15:49

because it made me realize that so many

15:51

of the stories that were told are what

15:53

count as American history or not the ones

15:55

that shaped. Our families. Aaron

15:57

had already been on the path as being like us.

16:00

History scholar. But

16:02

with. That fire in her. In

16:04

undergrad, she started interviewing her father

16:07

and his childhood neighbors about how

16:09

their families experience World War Two.

16:11

My. Grandmother passed away and. Right

16:14

before I started sixth grade. And my

16:16

grandfather right at the beginning of eighth grade for

16:18

me. And so I just never. That

16:21

many of these I don't know how

16:23

to ask them as questions. Aaron says

16:25

her Japanese American grandmother has a pretty

16:28

typical me say or second generation story

16:30

growing up in Southern California. My.

16:32

Grandmother had just started junior college

16:34

when Pearl Harbor with bombs, so

16:36

she had just sort of graduate

16:38

from high school and nineteen forty.

16:41

Moved. Out it seems wasn't living

16:43

with her family and. She. And

16:45

her older brother were sent to Pomona

16:47

Assembly Center which has one as a

16:49

temporary dissension centers built on the West

16:51

Coast. Her parents went to Santa Anita

16:53

which is tilted that centimeter a sex

16:55

in a way and and I haven't

16:57

really been able to figure out too

17:00

much about why they were separate or

17:02

what that was like. So

17:04

Aaron worked with Kissy Bossy

17:06

during the development of Unreality.

17:09

As a grad student and twenty seven teams,

17:11

she had the opportunity to travel with a

17:13

bunch of other students at Brown across the

17:15

boundary of At It exclusion zone that line

17:17

drawn up the West Coast. And

17:20

case sort of like invited him on

17:22

this road trip with a bunch of

17:24

grad students. brought us camera man which

17:26

was hilarious. They're already doing trip to

17:29

begin with so I just jumped on

17:31

which is amazing. Aaron

17:33

is also a singer. During.

17:36

That trip she was part of

17:38

a music project called no No

17:40

Boy and alongside to see Bussey

17:42

also made music inspired by historical

17:44

research. Aaron ended up opening for

17:46

bunch of tissue boxes shows and

17:48

talking offstage about the history and

17:50

the ideas as he developed. Oh

17:52

my Id. And they

17:55

talked about stuff like how

17:57

much personal history matters. I'm

17:59

always too. About. This.

18:02

Idea that like you should care about a history

18:04

if you. Can put yourself in the shoes of

18:07

it. I to me a. Yes,

18:09

In some ways, Absolutely like That is why

18:12

I care about. Incarceration histories because

18:14

it touched. you know, My life

18:16

and nice way is that I don't understand. But.

18:19

I also hope for. Not.

18:22

Needing to rely solely on empathy because I think

18:24

that can be so limiting Like you should. Only.

18:26

Care about something if you know that it. Would have

18:28

happened to you like that's actually not not the

18:30

thing that we want. And twenty eighteen

18:33

known, oh boy, and the tiny desk contests.

18:35

They. Didn't win, but here's them being featured

18:38

on Npr. Julian. Separate he an

18:40

errand or yeah my to Doctoral

18:42

students at Browns created songs that

18:44

illuminates the Asian American experience in

18:46

their multi media project. No, no

18:48

More. Known as. The

18:56

song is called to candles in

18:58

the Dark Sam is so romantic.

19:00

Snapshot of the root cellar and

19:02

hard mountain. you know, like where

19:04

they stored vegetables. Know

19:12

like. Says

19:14

a song we sang. Candles in the

19:17

Dark is kind of a speculative t

19:19

Thinking about what it would mean to

19:21

sneak out. My grandmother was. About twenty

19:23

years old when she was. At her mountain.

19:25

So thinking about living in a one

19:27

room Berrick with her older brother in

19:29

her parents and and trying to get

19:32

some time away find a little bit

19:34

of light in a really dark place?

19:36

Finding joy and finding life even. From

19:38

within a prison him so earnest singing

19:40

about the sneakers days in The Roots

19:42

in their. Own that

19:44

Swede. It's like life goes on.

19:47

Yeah. And it's based on

19:49

visiting bad seller long after its

19:51

prime and seems years avoid abandoned

19:54

beer cans and improvise hearing and

19:56

understanding that it's it's always been

19:58

a spot for teenage the sneak

20:00

off to. My. Grandmother as I

20:02

know, never talked about her time and.

20:04

Champions like acknowledging that she had been

20:07

there and sell a lot of. My

20:09

research. To this day still is

20:11

like holding that and is holding the fact

20:13

that like the one person that I really

20:15

wanted know a lot about, I can't ever

20:17

know. Like okay, as a historian were supposed

20:19

to try and understand and know everything that

20:21

we can. But what do you do when

20:24

you just know that you're not going to

20:26

know everything And how does that? like shifts

20:28

the way that you approach. What knowledge

20:30

can be and what like history can be

20:32

and who. Counts and who gets to be part of the

20:34

store? He. Wow. Younger generations

20:36

and newer immigrants search for

20:39

historical connections. The. Japanese

20:41

Americans me to be has invested a

20:43

lot and to preserving the memory plate

20:45

people who are incarcerated as children or

20:47

teenagers are still alive. I don't have

20:50

like gotten this slow as a sub

20:52

to sing oligarchs. Like. Mary

20:54

number. When. She was sixteen years

20:56

old, She was incarcerated with her family and

20:58

move from L A county to mans and

21:01

are deep in the California desert. This.

21:03

Is her out? A Japanese American? National

21:05

Museum virtual Event And Twenty Twenty. Innocence

21:09

Songs. Low. As

21:11

written for me in Camp by

21:13

Mr. Racism. About the life of

21:15

the young people who have no privacy is

21:18

it would a movement the middle doing who

21:20

you are. They let you into it and

21:22

I'll just do a good global Nicole. It.

21:25

The. Man's in our songs. I.

21:28

Know a bow and I

21:30

know a good in meds

21:33

and all. Days

21:36

I do feel that it

21:38

makes no difference when you

21:40

marry me. Same was and

21:42

a songbird. I am from

21:44

our. Most. She was

21:46

incarcerated she performs you towards

21:49

he even court records of

21:51

this is is he was

21:54

be heaps of the new

21:56

public interest not brothers properties

21:58

know same. Aaron was.

22:00

Thinking about how any was like

22:03

written and performed during incarceration I

22:05

think it's kind of stunning to

22:07

think about. How are lovers are

22:10

probably slow dancing to is kind

22:12

of thing or maybe just like

22:14

shooting each other knowing looks the

22:16

mess oh ten d dinner as

22:19

to is my you list your

22:21

course I will win with a

22:23

listening to music in the can

22:26

I mean eventually. It was about

22:28

as often as. People

22:30

listen to music in their life.

22:32

A lot of it was because

22:34

internees set up life for themselves

22:37

in the bare bones structures of

22:39

the camps churches, temples, farms, newspapers,

22:41

sports, team, dances, People.

22:44

Wanted the structure of normalcy

22:46

of community know, especially with

22:48

kids around. And

22:50

also because the camps or put

22:52

together so hastily they weren't fully

22:54

operational when thousands of people suddenly

22:56

needed to live. there is just

22:59

as good as you pretend it's

23:01

it's not so important. Listen to

23:03

his oh off of the with

23:05

the word. Is. Nancy.

23:07

Sure what when?

23:09

Ah, Sorry

23:12

I started to low. But.

23:16

There were spaces for music

23:18

and dance, both formal and

23:20

informal. Japanese and American has.

23:23

That's where people do. So.

23:25

What it does look. Like my understanding is

23:28

that there was a pretty strong

23:30

generational divide even before the war.

23:33

He. Say first generation folks held on

23:35

to the traditions I grew up

23:37

with in Japan. There are stories

23:39

of Kabuki theater productions coming together.

23:41

In New Mexico is camp people

23:44

hand making props and instruments for

23:46

classical dances. And

23:48

for nice a the second generation. There.

23:50

Is a pretty distinct cohort of

23:53

them coming of age and the

23:55

early nineteen hundreds and they wanted

23:57

to dance and play popular American

23:59

music. Particularly swinging and jazz

24:01

and big band stuff. Like.

24:04

You know, these are people in

24:07

their teens and early twenties who

24:09

wanted to be defiantly American at

24:11

a time when they were extremely

24:13

aware that they weren't a welcome

24:15

into at so. As things

24:17

change, anything still stay the

24:19

same. Yeah. Marrying a

24:22

Mirage has talked about how she didn't think

24:24

she'd been able to have a singing career

24:26

at all. Outside the camp tears her in.

24:28

A documentary from Two Thousand and Two. Hours

24:32

aspired to be a singer on

24:34

the radio, the does not know

24:36

a census, a Japanese and on

24:39

Higgins in the movies about. because

24:41

of my love for music I

24:43

was in the On the Face

24:45

Or and and Athena. Out in

24:48

a camp like this is no way. but

24:50

I was lucky that I was able to

24:52

seeing as I'm a season attempt. but as

24:54

a little for that I would. Rather

24:56

than sizes and I didn't have the

24:58

opportunity that. System That

25:01

Music plight. That's a hard

25:03

irony that the internment camp provided

25:05

her with opportunities to into the

25:07

ever had in White America. There's

25:10

so many stories like this. Many.

25:12

Of them collected in this book called

25:14

Reminiscing and Swing Time by George Or

25:16

Cedar who was living with his family

25:18

in Los Angeles before they were incarcerated

25:20

in person, Arizona. He. Was twenty.

25:24

Yoshida, Rates have this feeling among

25:26

me. so while incarcerated. Quote.

25:29

Didn't. We pledge allegiance to the American flag.

25:31

I'll realize. Hey, we're American.

25:33

You know, apple pie, baseball and

25:35

Chevrolet aren't we? George.

25:40

Was a musician and bandleader himself

25:42

and in his book he documents

25:44

dozens of me say groups playing

25:46

jazz and swing before, during and

25:48

after the war, school friends and church

25:51

groups. The American born musicians who

25:53

went back to Japan for opportunities

25:55

to play professionally, some of whom

25:57

got caught a broad during the

25:59

war. He writes about

26:01

the big bands that exists at every

26:04

single camp and to what happened to

26:06

both musicians after the war. Yoshida

26:08

has spoken about how when the order

26:10

came down, his family, like a

26:12

lot of others, burned a lot of

26:15

their staff that was Japanese. In

26:17

this case records full of like children's

26:20

music. They sold their piano. They were

26:22

able to store a few Trump's of

26:24

staff at a church. Here's the two

26:26

thousand and two interview with him from

26:28

the dental archive. Know we'll see your

26:30

chips. Presented curve

26:32

for my purse no use

26:34

was so you can carry

26:36

cases in the November if

26:38

it's funny foods pop music

26:40

for known to sister. Susan.

26:44

To camp. He

26:46

says oh no, the suitcase. And

26:48

spare and shoes. And

26:51

most as was robots of said

26:53

because her to for these refugees

26:55

smoke machines but I could not

26:57

bear lazy my makes been George

27:00

your seat I wanted his records

27:02

with him even maybe to his

27:04

detriment. It reminds

27:06

me of something they came up with

27:08

Aaron our yammer in her discussions with

27:10

Kissy Bossy In Out. We had many conversations

27:12

about yeah when people were told to like

27:14

pack and take only what they could carry,

27:16

she would take his violin and that's the

27:19

into this. Sort of like oh yeah of

27:21

course there are musicians and camp and I

27:23

know that because we know that we had

27:25

a fling, pictures and and stories. But we

27:27

also know that because musician Thera musicians today

27:29

and like that is what a musician that

27:31

you are silly and you don't pack a

27:33

coat, you bring your violet. In

27:39

November Twenty Twenty three I went as a D

27:41

C staff has to services for for for me

27:44

out in the movie. After

27:49

the movie ended he got back on

27:51

sale soon. Transition to the next part

27:53

of a sandwich with a life says

27:56

connected with in turn into a little

27:58

fossils were lots of. From

28:06

the back of the theater I can see money in. Or

28:09

near me. She women are cautiously

28:11

raise their hands together. I

28:15

was in reporting mode so

28:17

during intermission I approached them.

28:19

now thinking about my different

28:21

people have different interests and

28:23

stem from this and. Devices

28:26

album has an incredibly healing

28:28

for me personally as allowed

28:30

me to have a conversation.

28:32

With my family and away about

28:35

our history and. Really feel

28:37

from that. This is Linda Mortars

28:39

she brought her mom marry you

28:41

see motor more to the sir

28:43

with her senses around. At

28:45

and to see it on the

28:48

screen and see here. as amusing

28:50

as a see. The video is

28:52

irresistible. Lonely with the most knowing

28:55

that is my family says he.

28:57

Is making a tribute

28:59

to. His. Is thrilling.

29:02

Overwhelmed. With the Maurice's seems

29:05

to have done a lot

29:07

out of oh man am

29:09

I found their perspective. Rounding

29:12

Our family was living

29:14

in California when Pearl

29:17

Harbor happen. Then my

29:19

grandmother and mother remember.

29:22

Singing a hole in sign, everything

29:24

that was happens into that hole

29:26

and and sitting on fire because

29:28

they were so afraid and so

29:30

fearful I'm in. Shortly after that

29:32

they were forced from their homes

29:34

and relocated to Arkansas. My

29:38

grandmother mother side months after entering campus

29:41

a the Forty Seven. So is this

29:43

incredibly devastating for a family? You know,

29:45

it's hard to even really sir about

29:47

these things to talk about them out

29:50

loud. And so I mean I. Think

29:52

the ceiling for for that reason

29:54

my grandparents actually Matt and got

29:56

married and the can split. See

29:58

now. If

30:01

I'm going I think about it as as

30:03

a D C bases near that the painting

30:05

a whole picture of humanity and the camp

30:07

or something and I I don't know that

30:09

we often see when we do talk about

30:11

happen and and mainstream closer as a some

30:13

fresh all he can. It

30:16

offers a different way to experience

30:18

the revisit that history that isn't

30:21

just talking about it are reading

30:23

about it but actually be a

30:25

number in the ceiling. Levant? That

30:27

said, really? impossible? To

30:33

see. Know.

30:53

And that's are so he can

30:55

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Thanks! Everyone has already signed up. This

31:31

episode was produced by Christina, color

31:33

was edited by Dalia Mourtada. An

31:36

engineer was Maggie Lose. Thanks

31:38

to Joy Yamaguchi and credit pitting to

31:40

as well as Kissy Bossy for use

31:42

of music from Oh My Id. We.

31:45

Use audio from the Done So archive

31:47

and the documentary words, weavings and Songs

31:49

produced by the Japanese American National Museum.

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