0:07

Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible

0:09

Time podcast . For those that

0:11

may be listening for the first time , our podcast

0:13

is an offshoot from our main platform

0:16

, Youtube . Our channel is called Coffee

0:18

and Bible Time , where our goal is

0:20

to help people delight in God's

0:22

Word and thrive in Christian

0:24

living . We also have a website

0:27

and storefront with Bible studies , prayer

0:29

journals , courses, and more . I'm

0:32

Mentor M ama , and today we

0:35

are going to be discussing the significance

0:37

of women and work . You

0:40

know most of our waking hours

0:42

are filled with working

0:44

in some capacity , and

0:47

we ought to devote serious

0:49

thought and consideration to what

0:51

the Bible has to say about

0:53

it . You know the challenges

0:55

of balancing work

0:57

and life are a common

0:59

struggle so many of us face

1:02

. We question our career

1:04

choices , we are wondering

1:06

how to glorify God through

1:08

our work and figure out

1:10

how to navigate the complexities

1:13

of being a Christian in

1:15

the workplace , in the home or

1:17

with the kids , because even

1:20

if you don't receive a paycheck for

1:22

your work , you are still working

1:24

. Work , in any form

1:27

in fact , is an act of

1:29

cultivation , an opportunity

1:32

to make something or

1:34

someone better . So

1:36

if we don't address the challenges

1:38

surrounding our work-life balance

1:41

, we risk missing out

1:43

on the beauty , truth and

1:45

hope that we can bring to the world . In

1:48

today's episode , Chelsea

1:50

Patterson Sobolik , symbolic author of

1:53

the book, " called to Cultivate

1:55

a Gospel Vision for Women

1:57

and Work , dives deep into

1:59

these questions , providing a solid

2:02

theological foundation and

2:04

practical rhythms that can help us flourish

2:06

in our work . Chelsea

2:09

is the author of Longing

2:12

for Motherhood Holding on to

2:14

Hope in the midst of Childlessness

2:16

, and works in Washington

2:18

DC as the director of

2:20

government relations for a nonprofit

2:23

organization . Previously

2:25

, she's worked for the leading evangelical

2:28

child welfare organization in

2:30

the country , the Ethics and Religious

2:32

Liberty Commission and

2:35

on Capitol Hill . Chelsea

2:37

has been published at the Wall Street Journal

2:39

, usa Today , the Gospel

2:41

Coalition , christianity Today

2:43

and other outlets . Chelsea

2:46

was adopted as a newborn

2:48

from Bucharest , Romania . She

2:51

grew up in North Carolina and

2:53

holds a BA in international

2:55

relations from Liberty University

2:57

. She and her husband , Michael

3:00

, are also building their family

3:02

through international adoption

3:04

and have recently welcomed their son

3:06

home from India . Please

3:09

welcome Chelsea .

3:12

Thank you so much for having me . It's great to be here

3:14

.

3:14

Oh , Chelsea , what a joy . Congratulations

3:17

on your adoption . How is

3:19

motherhood going ?

3:21

Oh , my goodness , it's a huge transition

3:23

, but I mean the best transition in

3:25

the world . Yeah , our son's

3:27

two and a half . So we went from zero

3:30

children to a toddler

3:32

who doesn't speak English

3:34

but he's learning very quickly . So a huge transition

3:36

. But I mean we are just

3:38

delighted and think we have the best

3:41

little boy in the entire world . I'm

3:44

sure every parent says that though .

3:45

Yeah , how adorable

3:48

. Well , It's

3:51

such a joy to be able to talk to you

3:53

today . You're just your work

3:55

background and your heart for serving

3:58

others is just so evident . I

4:00

want to start out by having you

4:02

tell us just a little bit about your

4:05

background , and I found it fascinating

4:07

how God kind of diverted

4:10

your plans . You had all these plans

4:13

for yourself and

4:15

they ended up from

4:17

going from West Africa to Washington

4:20

DC . Tell us a little bit about that .

4:24

Absolutely . S o, as

4:26

you mentioned in my bio , was born

4:28

overseas and I've always

4:30

had a deep passion and love for the nations

4:33

. My parents before

4:35

I'm one of six children

4:37

all adopted internationally , but

4:39

before children they they lived in West Africa

4:42

and my dad's an architect

4:44

and they physically helped build churches there

4:46

, and so I grew up hearing their

4:48

stories of living abroad . Having

4:51

been born abroad myself

4:53

, and I had this big desire to

4:55

move overseas and do some type

4:57

of work on with

4:59

people who are vulnerable , and

5:02

so I studied international relations , planning

5:04

to move overseas . And , to make

5:07

a long story short , God

5:09

majorly redirected my steps

5:11

to the Washington DC area , and

5:14

I always say God has a sense of humor because

5:16

so many people , their entire career

5:18

, desires and ambitions , are to live and work

5:20

here , and that was not mine and

5:23

I feel like I kind of stumbled into the work

5:25

that I do now . But of

5:27

course God has , you know

5:29

, directed my steps here and I've

5:31

been here almost 11 years now and

5:34

really really developed a passion and

5:36

a love for public policy

5:39

. And the cool thing that I love

5:41

about what I do and where

5:43

I do it is the nations are here . I

5:46

mean so many people

5:48

from around the globe , live

5:50

and work or immigrate to the Washington

5:52

DC area . So God

5:54

, in a very roundabout way

5:56

, really answered my desire to

5:58

live and work among people

6:01

from different nations . But

6:03

I also have gotten to work on public

6:05

policies that touch international relations

6:08

. Right now I do refugee and immigration

6:10

public policy and I

6:12

love it . I think I have one of the best jobs in

6:14

the world .

6:16

Oh , I really could sense

6:18

your passion for what you

6:20

do , as you put it

6:22

forth in your book as well , and

6:25

your book called to cultivate

6:27

your . You're discussing

6:29

the concept of women , specifically

6:32

right work , and through this biblical

6:35

lens , why

6:37

don't you share with us just

6:39

what , what your research showed you

6:41

when you looked at what scripture

6:44

says about the value

6:46

and the worth of work for

6:48

women ?

6:51

This was such a fun book to write because

6:53

I got to just read so

6:55

many books on the topic of work

6:57

. But one of the things that

7:00

I love about what scripture

7:02

says about work is that work predates

7:04

the fall . On the very first page

7:06

of Genesis we see a card at

7:08

work , creating the world with his words

7:11

. Of course we know he created

7:13

Adam and Eve , and one of the things

7:15

that I think is really crucial

7:18

to note here about work and

7:20

women and work is that when God blessed

7:23

Adam and Eve , he gave both of

7:25

them the creation mandate . So

7:28

the calling to be fruitful , multiply , fill the

7:30

earth , and the call to

7:32

subdue and cultivate the earth , he gave

7:34

it to both men and women , and so both

7:36

genders are commanded and called

7:38

to subdue and exercise dominion

7:40

over the earth . And

7:43

one of the ways through which humans

7:45

image God

7:48

to the world is through working . And

7:51

women , from the very first woman

7:53

from Eve , have played a vital role in the

7:55

flourishing of their families

7:58

, church , their communities

8:00

and the Kingdom of God through their work . I think

8:02

it's really important to note to you . I mean we've

8:04

seen work change in pretty drastic

8:06

ways throughout

8:09

history . Certainly throughout

8:11

the past hundred hundred years , work

8:13

has changed immensely . But for

8:17

us today , living and working

8:19

in , you know , 2024

8:22

, most , the majority of

8:24

women work in some capacity , whether

8:26

that's inside the home , raising children

8:28

, maybe caring for aging parents , working

8:31

outside the home , maybe working inside

8:34

the home and trying to balance a side job . You know

8:36

, all of us are spending our days working . We

8:38

might just not always receive a paycheck for

8:40

it , and so I really do think we

8:43

should give serious thought and consideration

8:45

to not only what scripture says about

8:48

work because it actually has quite a lot to

8:50

say about work but how

8:53

we , as women , steward

8:55

, steward the work that God has

8:57

called us to do . And the reality is work

8:59

does look different for

9:02

women than it does men , and so that does have

9:04

some unique challenges and opportunities

9:06

. But I think obviously

9:09

we see work

9:11

in the first pages of Genesis

9:14

, and we know the fall has marred

9:16

everything . I will be the first to raise my

9:18

hand and say I feel the impacts of the

9:20

fall of my work every single day , but

9:24

I think the good news of scripture

9:26

, of the gospel , is that sin

9:29

doesn't have the final say with our work

9:31

. The gospel is

9:34

telling us and inviting Christians

9:36

into the redeeming

9:39

and restoration narrative

9:41

of history

9:44

and God's redeeming

9:46

all things , including work , to

9:48

himself . And so not

9:51

only does sin

9:54

have an impact on our work , the gospel

9:56

also has an impact and

9:58

has ought to restructure

10:02

how we work , why we work , how

10:04

we think about work , everything about our

10:06

lives . So

10:08

that was a long answer to a shorter

10:10

question , but the Bible is not silent

10:12

on the topic of work , and the Bible is not silent

10:15

on women and at work .

10:18

Yeah , it , absolutely . You're correct

10:20

. You know right , we were created

10:23

to work and

10:25

like you said it , but that can look very different

10:27

for each one of us . I found it interesting

10:30

that you kind of have the math in the

10:32

book here . It says that we spend

10:34

90,000 hours

10:36

of our lives working . It's

10:39

a lot of hours . I mean you

10:41

can't even really wrap your mind around

10:44

what that is . But tell

10:46

us what

10:49

it means to , as we are

10:51

created in God's image

10:53

. Like how does that relate

10:55

to the biblical call to work

10:57

?

10:59

Absolutely , and I want to be careful in

11:01

saying work is how we image

11:03

God , because there are people who can't

11:08

work , who might have a

11:11

physical disability or

11:13

a mental disability that prevents them from working

11:15

. So I want to

11:17

be very careful and not make the blanket statement that work is how we image God

11:19

. It

11:22

is one of the ways through which humans

11:25

can image God . But when we

11:27

work which , you know , a lot of us

11:29

spend the

11:31

majority of our time working when we work , we are

11:34

not only participating in one

11:36

of the ways through which God

11:40

created humanity to image

11:42

himself , we're also showing

11:45

the world what God is like and what he cares about

11:47

. And

11:49

that's why I think we should be very

11:51

thoughtful in our work , because everything

11:54

we do and say whether or not it's

11:56

in a corner office on

11:59

the C-suite level , stalking

12:01

shelves at Walmart , caring

12:04

about everything we do

12:06

does , if we

12:09

publicly identify ourselves as Christians , tells

12:12

the world something about who God

12:14

is and what he is like . And

12:16

in our work , I think the two

12:18

big undergirding factors

12:21

in our work and this can play out a million

12:23

different directions is loving God through

12:25

our work and loving our neighbor through our work , and

12:28

glorifying God through our work , and

12:30

again , this looks different . I mean

12:32

, it's looked . I've had five jobs

12:34

in DC . It's looked different for me . I

12:36

just stepped into motherhood . It

12:39

looks different for us in different seasons

12:41

of life . But what never changes

12:43

is that we can seek to love

12:45

God and love others through our work , and

12:49

I think I've

12:51

found the temptation that

12:53

we can step into the

12:55

doors of our workplace and almost forget

12:58

that we are called to be

13:00

Christian there , or to get caught

13:02

up in the busyness and not

13:05

give our work the thought

13:09

that I think Christians should approach

13:11

our work with .

13:13

Sure , yeah

14:08

. Well , you

14:10

talk about this idea

14:12

of redemptive work

14:15

. Tell us what

14:17

you mean by that and how that

14:19

really transforms our approach

14:21

to work .

14:24

Absolutely . So I really

14:26

really dug into basically

14:30

how to be a Christian in a workplace

14:32

after I write about this in the book

14:34

. But I was working on Capitol Hill and

14:36

my to make a long

14:40

story short my boss resigned and

14:42

I lost my job and the

14:45

job I took after that I really did

14:47

not enjoy at all , and

14:50

so I was kind of on the

14:52

opposite end of the on Capitol Hill

14:54

. It was my dream job . I was doing what I loved

14:56

, working on issues I cared about . And then

14:58

the opposite end of the spectrum I went to a job

15:00

that I literally just felt like I was doing

15:03

to pay the bills , and

15:05

so I was really thinking through

15:07

does God care about my professional life

15:09

? Where is God when

15:12

I'm doing work that I don't enjoy ? How

15:14

do I glorify God in a job I'm

15:17

not thrilled about ? I

15:19

mean , could God still use me in a difficult

15:21

job ? Like all of those questions I was really

15:23

really wrestling with , and

15:25

I would imagine I'm not the only one

15:27

who's who's felt those things . I

15:32

think you know . The question I was really wrestling with is

15:34

how does God redeem my work was

15:36

very easy to see or

15:38

to feel like my work mattered when I was in

15:40

a job I loved , but when I was in a job

15:42

I did not enjoy at all , I

15:45

really wrestled with where how

15:47

can I still use this season well to glorify

15:50

God ? And

15:52

I think one of the things as a

15:54

Christian you know

15:56

we're not only telling the world what God

15:58

is like . There's , there's a couple

16:00

things that we can grasp

16:03

on to in redemptive

16:06

work . The first is

16:08

work as worship . So the Hebrew

16:10

word I'm not

16:13

going to even to pronounce it because I

16:15

think I've mispronounced it before , but

16:17

the Hebrew term that

16:20

is used in scripture

16:22

simultaneously actually means work

16:24

, worship and service . The first

16:26

time this term is used is in Genesis

16:29

, to telling us about God's

16:31

original design for work

16:33

and how work and worship seamlessly

16:36

go together . And

16:39

so I think we can view our

16:41

work and I should caveat

16:43

by saying there are certain types of work that are

16:46

simple , but I

16:48

mean , for the vast majority of us were sending emails

16:51

, are doing , you know , expense reports

16:53

or this work that

16:55

is neutral , it's

16:57

not simple work , but

17:00

we can view our work as one of the ways

17:02

through which we worship God , and I think

17:04

that's really that really reoriented

17:06

my perspective , because I stepped

17:09

into that workplace I

17:11

was the only Christian that I knew of . I

17:13

really tried to adopt the mindset that everything

17:16

I do tells my co-workers

17:18

something about who God is and what he's like

17:20

. But also the act of

17:22

me going to this job that I don't enjoy

17:25

is one of the ways I can worship God , because

17:27

and this is the second color I think we can

17:29

kind of hold on to Like I said earlier

17:31

, work is one of the ways through which we love our neighbor

17:34

, and Martin Luther has this

17:36

quote that I love . He said God doesn't need your

17:38

good works , but our neighbor does . And

17:40

so really stepping

17:42

back and saying , okay , how does my work

17:45

help

17:47

humans flourish , how does my work

17:49

help me to love my neighbor

17:52

? And for

17:54

some roles it's easy to

17:56

kind of see the

17:58

direct tie and for others

18:00

you might need to take a couple steps

18:02

back . I read about this example in the book , but

18:05

I wrote several chapters

18:07

on my laptop and a coffee shop and

18:09

for that moment to happen , so

18:12

many other people had to do their job well , I

18:14

mean people so much harder

18:16

than me created my computer and the

18:20

coffee and the milk and my latte , and the

18:22

person who built the chair and all of these different things

18:24

helped me to flourish

18:26

in that moment because I was able to sit down

18:28

and type out words on the computer . So I

18:31

think holding these two pillars into

18:34

restructuring how we think about work that

18:36

work is a way we worship and

18:38

it's a way that we love our neighbor will

18:40

really help us view our

18:42

work redemptively and not just

18:44

transactually as a way to get

18:46

a paycheck or as a way to get to the end of

18:48

the day so we can relax . I

18:51

really think it helps us restructure our vision

18:54

for what work even is

18:56

.

18:56

Absolutely . When

19:00

you talk about this experience that you

19:02

had doing a job that was not

19:05

your favorite , I

19:07

can remember a time as well

19:09

in my life where I had a job

19:12

in a work environment that just wasn't

19:15

ideal , and I

19:17

just remember how

19:20

God blessed me one

19:22

day when I walked

19:24

over to another worker's cubicle

19:26

and I was kind of like looking at her pictures

19:29

on there and

19:31

I don't remember specifically

19:33

what the picture was , but I

19:36

knew she was a Christian and

19:38

it was at that moment . I

19:42

just felt such joy . I'm like , okay

19:44

, I was so excited to know and

19:47

it turned out we even went to the same

19:49

church . It's just like we went

19:51

to a different service than I

19:53

did , and

19:57

so God has a way to blessing

19:59

us in different

20:01

ways . Tell

20:04

us , what would you say to someone right

20:06

now who is

20:09

in that position of

20:11

having a job that's very

20:13

difficult , like ? Does

20:15

scripture give

20:17

us an indication of a better

20:20

way to work or how can we practically

20:23

work well ?

20:25

Yes , I love this question . I

20:28

think one of the things that I

20:30

have clung to you in honestly

20:33

really great jobs that I find

20:35

a lot of fulfillment and harder

20:37

jobs is one

20:40

of the promises in scripture , the

20:43

promise that God says he'll

20:45

never leave her for sake of us . And

20:48

yes , those promises

20:50

have deeply rooted me in moments

20:53

of deep suffering , deep

20:55

hardship . But it's also helpful

20:57

for me to remember in those moments

21:00

where I feel really unseen

21:02

in my labors , where it feels like

21:04

no one is appreciating

21:07

what I'm doing , or

21:09

I've had a boss who is very harsh

21:12

to me in their language and

21:14

I can feel an inch

21:16

high in those moments . Or

21:19

changing another diaper that no one's gonna

21:21

click like on Instagram

21:23

, or all of those types of things . Or

21:27

that hidden work or that frustrating work

21:29

where it feels like I'm the only

21:31

one who feels this way or

21:33

I'm the only one who is

21:35

really trying to do a good job here . Whatever

21:38

that feeling is for us , I

21:41

have found it very helpful to remember that

21:43

God promises never to leave

21:45

her for sake of me , and that means in those

21:47

moments when I feel so unseen , so

21:50

undervalued , or

21:52

where I do feel very

21:54

valued and have a temptation to

21:56

boast

21:59

or be proud

22:01

. It's almost a leveling

22:04

agent for me

22:06

, because remembering

22:08

God never leaves her for sakes

22:10

me , in my worst moments

22:12

and in my best moments . And so

22:14

for me and for , I think

22:16

, others to remember in

22:19

those moments where we feel like

22:21

we cannot go to work one more

22:23

day or we feel so unseen

22:26

in our labors at home , god

22:29

knows and God sees us . And

22:32

that might sound simple

22:34

to say , but when

22:37

I allow that truth to see deep , deep

22:39

, deep into my heart , it re-orient

22:41

everything , because I know that

22:43

there's no wasted time or

22:45

wasted moments in God's kingdom and

22:48

that in those moments of frustration

22:52

, I can

22:54

allow those moments to invite

22:57

God into his spirit

22:59

and prayer . I

23:01

can . Maybe it's a season where I'm

23:03

learning patience

23:06

more , or all of these things . It's

23:08

a really trusting that God means

23:11

it when he says he'll never leave her for sake

23:13

of , so that means he's with me in those those

23:15

hard moments . And then

23:17

also , I think remembering God's

23:20

, god's care for us In

23:22

those moments too , has really helped

23:24

me See

23:27

outside of myself and see . See

23:30

God's goodness and

23:32

Presence in those difficult

23:34

moments .

23:37

This really ties in so

23:40

beautifully to the

23:42

sermon that our pastor did on Sunday

23:45

, when you said that he just started

23:47

the book of Daniel and God

23:50

is telling the Israelites

23:52

that they're going to be going into exile

23:55

, but which

23:57

you know could is a difficult situation , similar

24:01

to how you could have a different cult . You

24:03

know time in your life as well

24:06

, but he's saying I

24:08

will be with you , and not

24:10

only will I be with you , but I

24:12

will go before you , and

24:16

so I do

24:18

love what you said . I think that that

24:20

we can take such encouragement

24:23

from that and Tell

24:28

me , chelsea

24:31

. So in the

24:33

area that you've been working at

24:36

Helping people and

24:39

they're facing many times very

24:41

difficult circumstances has

24:44

there ever been someone

24:46

that's kind of Stood

24:48

out to you that you saw sort

24:51

of clinging to these truths to

24:53

help them ?

24:56

It's a great question . I've

24:58

worked in both secular

25:00

work environments and Christian

25:03

work environments . It's

25:05

actually really interesting to see the

25:08

some of the differences . I mean on face

25:10

value , of course there's massive differences , but

25:13

I'm kind of like you were saying

25:15

in that job where you Discovered

25:18

, you know oh , you too , you're a Christian too

25:20

. In some of the secular work environments

25:23

I've had , other

25:26

I've , you know , there've been groups that have

25:28

been started for other Christians working

25:31

on Capitol Hill , for example , and

25:33

it's been really helpful to

25:35

Come together and

25:37

see other people who are striving

25:40

not only to be excellent in their job

25:42

and I think I actually do

25:44

think Christians should strive for excellence

25:46

and , you

25:48

know , I think we should do

25:50

everything with excellence but but

25:53

are navigating some of those really

25:55

difficult things that that job

25:57

uniquely brings . And so

25:59

I have . I've been encouraged

26:02

to have like-minded colleagues

26:04

walking through similar paths

26:06

and seeking to rightly

26:08

apply the word of God

26:11

to to their work . So

26:13

that's been encouraging . When I first

26:15

moved to DC , I had

26:17

so many people say why would you move there

26:19

? It's , you know , a godless place . And all

26:22

of this . Number one God's presence

26:24

is everywhere . But number

26:26

two when I first moved here , I was blown

26:28

away by the amount of Christians here

26:31

seeking to Love

26:34

justice , do mercy and

26:37

and love their neighbor through their work . But there's

26:39

so many faithful churches here too and

26:43

I think it's really detrimental . Or when

26:45

we write off Types of workplaces

26:48

, you know , working in the government you can't ever

26:50

, you know , accomplish anything

26:52

, or Even places

26:55

you know God could never do anything there

26:57

. You know , nothing good comes from Nazareth . You

26:59

know that type of mentality and Seeing

27:02

people up close and personal and then

27:04

wanting to share . You know there are

27:06

people all over the world , all

27:09

over DC , who are seeking to

27:11

take scripture and rightly apply

27:14

it to to their work , and I

27:16

mean , of course we see people twisting scripture too

27:18

, but there are really

27:20

committed , faithful people and

27:23

I mean the reality is like we

27:26

will never know many of their , like they're

27:28

never gonna be on the front page of the news , but they're

27:30

. They're quiet , faithful work Will

27:33

have impacts on history , both in Washington

27:35

DC and rural care , wherever someone

27:37

lives , knowing that

27:39

, even if our names and faces are

27:41

never on a newspaper

27:43

or if we're not , you know

27:46

a big name on Instagram

27:48

or Twitter , whatever that , our work Will

28:29

still touch the lives of others

28:31

and have impacts , not

28:34

only in this life , but through , through our detergents

28:36

. I think is really a Really

28:39

cool thing to to

28:41

root ourselves to and knowing that we

28:43

can do good work Wherever God has called

28:46

us and whatever season he's called us into

28:48

.

28:49

So true . In

28:52

your book you

28:54

say that while work is

28:56

deeply meaningful , it shouldn't

28:58

be ultimate in our lives . We

29:00

were created to work , but

29:03

we were also created for

29:05

rest , play and pleasure

29:07

. So tell us how

29:10

that sort of ties into

29:12

the concept of Sabbath rest

29:14

and the importance of how

29:18

women sort of need to have

29:20

this balance .

29:23

I love this question and you

29:25

know I again

29:27

going back to the very first pages of scripture

29:30

, we see God create

29:32

time but then also orient

29:34

to man at the time . So he

29:37

modeled for us . He worked

29:39

six days and then ceased to

29:41

work his a seventh , and

29:44

demonstrated that rhythm of

29:46

working six days , ceasing

29:48

a seventh , a Sabbath

29:51

if you will . So that's

29:53

kind of a weekly rhythm , but

29:55

built into our days are actually

29:58

daily rhythms of humanity

30:00

needing to stop working , which

30:03

is sleep . I think God created evening

30:05

and God created morning or day

30:08

, and so I

30:10

think one of the things that I love about

30:12

how God structured time is

30:14

we have daily and weekly rhythms . That

30:16

he's instituted for us and

30:19

, for me at least , it reminds

30:21

us of my limitations , because

30:24

I love my job , I love working I

30:27

mean , again , I've been in season so that's not

30:29

the case but I have a temptation

30:31

to overwork and not stop working

30:33

and so needing to go

30:35

to bed I mean

30:38

, I have a toddler , I get tired by 8

30:40

pm now but it's

30:44

a reminder that we need

30:46

to sleep and that God upholds the world

30:48

, how we sleep and how we rest

30:51

, and it's a reminder that we

30:53

are humans and , honestly

30:55

, a reminder of the bigness of God , that

30:57

he holds the whole world in his

31:00

hand , and so I

31:02

think , as Christians , I

31:04

mean our society's addicted to busyness

31:06

, absolutely addicted , but

31:08

I really think we should structure

31:12

our lives in a way that , again

31:14

, like you know , work is very

31:16

important , but it's not ultimate , and it

31:18

was never meant to bear the weight

31:21

of our identities more

31:23

, so much more than workers . You

31:26

know , we are members of churches

31:28

, members of communities , members of families

31:30

, and all of those things are very important

31:32

as well . So , you know

31:35

, I I think people of good faith

31:37

just can disagree on whether

31:39

Sabbath is still a commandment

31:42

that we ought to obey

31:44

. However , I do think there's

31:47

wisdom in honoring it

31:49

, though the word Sabbath

31:51

comes from the Hebrew term Shabbat

31:53

, and the word

31:56

Shabbat means he rested and

31:59

the first . I love this so much because

32:01

it ties back into restructuring

32:04

identity . But the first mention of the word

32:06

Sabbath is actually about in Genesis

32:08

. It's in Exodus 16

32:11

. So Shabbat's used in Genesis . Sabbath

32:14

is used in Exodus , when God is leading

32:17

the Israelites out of slavery

32:19

from Egypt as God's

32:21

chosen people . He's teaching them a new

32:23

way of living , and

32:25

he promised us to stain them with his

32:27

presence . And so I think , when

32:29

we choose to step

32:32

back one day a week it doesn't

32:34

have to be Sunday , but when we choose to honor

32:37

God with our time and step back and rest

32:39

, I think it loosens our grip on

32:41

our idols and leads

32:43

us out of the slavery that

32:46

we are tempted into again . It can

32:49

look different , our idols look different . You know , mine

32:51

is the temptation to overlook , and so when I

32:53

like to do lists , most

32:55

days is longer by the end , and I

32:59

think I mean , if I wanted to , I could never

33:01

stop working . But choosing to lay

33:04

down my idol of overworking

33:07

or my idol of you

33:09

know whatever it is , and choosing to

33:11

rest , I really do think that God

33:13

honors that and

33:16

I think that it's one of the ways that

33:18

we can live on God's

33:20

time and not the world's time .

33:23

I completely agree and I

33:25

struggle honestly with the very

33:28

same thing , like just on

33:30

plugging , because that to-do list

33:32

is just goes on and on

33:34

and on and it never stopped . In

33:36

fact I was never stopped . You know , we

33:38

have these electronic calendars now

33:40

that you can put on repeat and

33:42

it says when , when this is gonna end

33:45

, and never , never , like

33:48

oh my goodness . But

33:52

I do think , at least for

33:54

me to kind of get through , that is just

33:56

prayer and asking God

33:58

to prioritize and being

34:01

intentional about taking

34:04

that time for rest . And I

34:06

know for me personally , like I

34:08

have been trying to really take that

34:10

one day of

34:12

rest , but it's at night

34:14

where I have a hard time , like

34:16

stopping what I'm doing because I'm working

34:18

from home and it

34:21

can be challenging to do that . But

34:23

what I found is is , if

34:26

I stop and

34:28

allow myself to have some

34:30

type of a creative outlet , that

34:34

I feel so much more

34:36

refreshed and

34:39

I think it does help

34:41

me to , you know , make my life feel

34:43

fuller and richer and doesn't

34:45

get depleting . Well

34:48

, as we start to wrap

34:51

things up here , you have so many other

34:53

great topics

34:55

within this book that we could talk

34:57

about , including networking

34:59

and mentorship , and I'd

35:02

like to just sort of wrap up with

35:05

the , what words of

35:07

encouragement would you have

35:09

for the person

35:11

who feels just unseen

35:14

or like their

35:16

work isn't making a difference

35:19

or just doesn't even matter ?

35:23

I think I'm

35:25

going to steal this phrase from Eugene Peterson

35:27

that I love , which he actually borrowed the phrase

35:30

from someone else but committing

35:33

to the long obedience in the same direction

35:35

. And

35:37

you know , as women

35:40

our life is much more seasonal than

35:42

men , in many different ways , but

35:44

fixing our eyes on the thing that

35:47

never changes , which is our

35:49

calling to obediently follow

35:51

Christ wherever he leads us . And

35:56

so that long obedience in the same

35:58

direction , remembering that

36:00

we're not necessarily

36:02

called to success and I think

36:04

we should , like I said earlier

36:06

, be excellent and we should strive for

36:08

success , but that's not our calling as Christians

36:10

. We're not called to necessarily be successful

36:12

, we're called to live faithful and obedient

36:15

lives . And so I think , whenever

36:17

we are

36:19

following Christ and seeking to

36:22

obey his

36:24

commandments , that we can trust

36:27

that , no matter how insignificant

36:29

or unseen , we

36:32

feel that

36:34

the things that God deems important

36:36

are very different from the world . And

36:40

so , remembering that our value and

36:42

worth does not come from the

36:44

size of our paycheck , from the

36:47

titles behind

36:49

our name or the lack

36:51

thereof , that our ultimate

36:54

calling , value

36:56

, worth , dignity , comes from God . And

37:01

so we can root all of ourselves

37:03

, all of our time , all

37:06

of our days , in

37:08

that promise that not

37:11

one tear that we shed will

37:13

be forgotten by God , that he

37:15

keeps our tears in the bottle , so

37:17

when we are in deep moments

37:20

of pain and struggle or

37:23

when we're on the mountaintop , that

37:25

everything has meaning

37:27

, not only for today but for eternity

37:29

. And so I think the thing

37:32

I would almost close with and encourage

37:34

other sisters with is commit

37:37

, put our heads

37:39

on our visions and

37:42

fix our eyes on Christ . And

37:44

I don't mean this to be a cheesy church answer

37:47

, I mean it . I say this because it has changed

37:49

everything for me and

37:52

I can't go one day without

37:55

the help of the Holy Spirit , because life's

37:57

too hard , if I'm honest

37:59

, life's too hard to I can't

38:01

do it all on my own . I've tried

38:04

, believe me . I've tried

38:06

. I fail

38:08

miserably or I

38:10

am not the type of

38:13

person I want to be to

38:15

my family and community . It

38:18

is only with God's help

38:20

that I can , and God's grace

38:23

, infinite measures of grace that

38:25

I can

38:27

have open hands

38:29

and seek to honor him with

38:31

our lives . So , to sum it

38:34

up , I would say God

38:36

sees us , god knows us , god loves

38:38

us , and for

38:40

us to fix our eyes on him as

38:42

we're walking the path .

38:44

For life Amen . Well

38:46

said , Chelsea . How can people

38:48

find out more information about you

38:50

and your book ?

38:54

So my website is chelseapattersonsobolik . c om

38:57

and , Called to Cultivate is available wherever

39:01

books are sold .

39:02

Excellent . We will make sure we have those

39:04

links in the show notes . Before

39:06

we go , though , I want to ask you some of our favorite

39:08

Bible study tool questions . I think

39:10

people wait for here , so what

39:13

Bible is your go-to Bible

39:15

and what translation is it ?

39:18

I use an ESV Bible

39:21

. I actually got

39:24

a new one a couple years ago . My old one the cover

39:26

had fallen off . I

39:28

have a newer , fresher Bible

39:30

that ESV and I

39:33

kind of use two at the same time . I have a large

39:35

ESV study Bible and then a smaller

39:37

one that I keep

39:40

on my desk with me at all times . But

39:42

, yeah , I use both almost daily .

39:45

That's awesome . Yeah , the ESV study

39:47

Bible is really

39:49

good . Okay , excellent

39:52

, okay . Do you have

39:54

any favorite journaling supplies or anything ? That you like

39:56

to use to enhance your Bible study experience

39:58

.

40:01

I work through and I

40:03

probably don't do this

40:06

as much as I would like

40:08

to at all but I work through , actually in the evenings

40:10

, a series of questions

40:12

, More

40:15

like a end of the day closeout . But

40:18

I feel like in the morning I'm

40:21

fresh , I pray , but in

40:23

the evenings I'll try to journal out

40:26

where did I see God in my day ? What

40:28

am I grateful for

40:30

that the Lord did in this day ? What

40:32

are moments of frustration that I'm

40:34

bringing to prayer ? I

40:37

think the practice is called

40:39

a daily agreement , but I'm working

40:41

through kind of a and I just

40:43

use a little mole skin notebook for that . I

40:46

kind of go through the series of questions and

40:49

the way I end it every evening

40:51

or the evenings I do it . I'm very imperfectly

40:54

, but the evenings I do . It is what promise

40:56

or scripture am I cleaning to this

40:58

day ? And that's really

41:00

helpful for me to close my day

41:03

that way . It

41:06

really helps me go

41:08

into the evening well , but also in trust

41:10

what happened that day . The good and the bad back

41:13

to .

41:13

God , I love

41:15

that . Lastly , what

41:17

is your favorite app or website

41:20

for Bible study tools ?

41:23

I love the Dwell app . I

41:28

love listening to the Bible . I've

41:32

read through the Bible in a year before , but I'm reading

41:34

through the Bible in two years right now

41:36

, just because I changed jobs last year

41:38

. I sent in the motherhood the book released

41:41

. I knew life was going to be very full

41:43

and I'm

41:45

not surprisingly in behind . But I've been listening

41:47

to the Bible as I'm

41:49

getting ready in the morning and that's really

41:52

, really helpful

41:54

and encouraging to me . That

41:56

you know , what matters is not that I

41:58

stay on a plan . What matters is that the word of God

42:01

is in my head and my heart

42:03

and so , yeah , I love the dwell

42:05

app .

42:05

Oh my goodness , people

42:08

who listen to this podcast are going to think that

42:10

you know they're like we're

42:14

telling everybody to

42:16

say that . But though the

42:18

dwell app is . It's not good it is great

42:20

, and in fact , this morning I was on it and

42:23

I noticed too they have a chronological

42:25

Bible that they will read to

42:27

you . So I've done

42:29

that once , where I've read it in a book

42:31

, but I think it would be really cool to

42:34

have that read to you too . So , all right

42:36

, dwell app . Great app , chelsea . Thank

42:38

you so much for being here today

42:40

Just to shine a light on how

42:42

we can flourish in our work

42:45

and glorify God , no matter where

42:47

our workplace is or what

42:49

we are doing .

42:52

Well , thanks so much for having me . It was a great

42:54

conversation .

42:56

And for our listeners , be sure

42:58

and pick up a copy of Chelsea's book,

43:00

Called to Cultivate, for

43:02

deeper insight into today's topic

43:05

. We will have the link in the show notes

43:07

. We love you all . Thank you

43:09

so much for listening . If you

43:11

would leave a review for our

43:13

podcast , we would appreciate

43:15

it so much and it would help us be

43:17

able to continue putting the podcast

43:20

together . Have a blessed

43:22

day .