0:32

Hey, Jamie.

0:33

Howdy Kurt.

0:35

How are you? Slurp, slurp, slurp.

0:37

Slurp, slurp, slurp. That's the puppy. Gotta

0:40

hear the animals in the background. Just

0:43

know we're genuine. Genuine and authentic

0:46

right here. Authenticism.

0:48

Authenticity. Yeah. Authenticism,

0:52

you were doing so well with the vocab words

0:53

earlier. I had spelling and

0:56

vocab and now I have nothing.

0:58

None of those things.

1:03

Dark Christmas specials.

1:06

I have been thirsty. Yeah. Lately.

1:10

You know, so last night before

1:12

we talked about coffee or. Other

1:14

things there was so I'm,

1:17

I'm drinking out of my, my favorite market

1:20

tap stainless

1:22

steel cup. So,

1:24

I was at the market tap last night because

1:27

they had a stouts. With

1:29

Santa event

1:33

only one Santa, I mean,

1:35

there is only one, the one

1:37

and only, right? Yeah. There is only one

1:39

busy. He happens to live

1:42

a few doors over from me.

1:44

Okay. And enjoys apparently

1:46

his stout. Yes, he did.

1:48

He did. And I did too. I had maybe

1:52

one stout too many. It

1:54

were very long stouts this, this,

1:57

this

1:58

year. Typically the

2:00

stout

2:01

does do that. Yeah. Imperial stouts

2:04

were like 12 percent Oh,

2:07

in some, in some cases, goodness.

2:10

Yeah. I didn't have, I didn't have too much.

2:13

It's hard to, you

2:16

gotta say no when they're, when they get to

2:18

the 12%, you're going to just kind of politely.

2:22

Pass. You can just get flights too. Small,

2:25

small portion. Anyway.

2:27

Let me, let me explain the menu last night.

2:31

You don't need to get into all the detail. But

2:33

Oh, I got to set up the the

2:37

little just a

2:40

little, a little update. Or do you want to talk

2:42

about coffee? Get, get

2:44

that update going and then

2:46

go into. Yeah, I think this

2:48

is the short episode. This is the 140.

2:51

So we're just going to go from coffee to sketch.

2:54

But stay tuned folks

2:56

with one piece in between,

2:59

right? What piece are you

3:00

talking about? You know, the final

3:03

reviews I

3:05

thought that was I thought

3:07

that was the

3:09

141 like penultimate

3:12

penultimate. I'm trying to use my vocab

3:14

words penultimate Like,

3:17

year in review episode.

3:19

Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, okay. Well,

3:21

we'll leave it. So then we'll just do, yeah, we'll just, I'll,

3:24

I'll, I mean, we do this

3:26

on the fly, people. So keep this, keep

3:28

this

3:29

moving. See, this is what happens when you break

3:31

one episode into two, and you're

3:33

like, I've got this great idea. And

3:36

and then Kurt had a whole

3:38

plan for 140, and I threw

3:41

a wrench in it. So I am totally to

3:42

blame. I could have been not paying

3:45

attention when we were setting

3:47

those

3:47

two things up. It was me. It was

3:49

me. It was totally me.

3:51

So I appreciate your, your

3:53

honesty.

3:54

Well, cause I wanted to slip this one sketch in cause it's one

3:56

that we, that I did do that

3:59

is super special to me and

4:01

I, I wanted to get it in this season.

4:04

We will get to it in a moment because I do want

4:06

to know what the coffee du jour

4:08

is. See, see,

4:10

there's, there's that French Canadian

4:12

that I'm not. In there a

4:15

a maple

4:18

syrup. Well,

4:21

I have I had to get the bag because

4:24

I actually had to write

4:26

the name myself. What was that?

4:28

Yeah, there was a

4:29

he has to do the work. What

4:32

I had to fill it myself and

4:34

then write it, but there, it was

4:37

bulk bulk coffee at the

4:39

little

4:40

sort of,

4:44

I don't know what you would call that, that kind of

4:46

a small grocer here in, in

4:48

town

4:50

and

4:52

They they carried it in bulk and I believe

4:55

it's I

4:57

forget where, where they do the roasting,

4:59

but it's called birds of paradise

5:02

as a medium to medium dark.

5:05

It's not, it's not bad. It's pretty, it's pretty mellow.

5:07

It's a nice medium roast in our case

5:10

because I ran out. I ran out of the

5:14

damn fine from rootless and

5:18

it was an off day. So I had

5:20

to, you know, an off day for, for

5:23

buying more. So I had to go

5:25

back up, plan, go off and

5:28

find some, yeah,

5:31

no, that's good. I said, well, that's exciting. I mean,

5:33

like I wasn't sure where you were headed and I didn't know

5:35

there were props involved

5:36

tonight. So props. Well, yeah, I needed,

5:38

I wasn't going to remember

5:41

the name if I, if I didn't bring it. Fair

5:44

enough. Yeah. So how about,

5:46

how

5:46

about you? So I

5:49

similar to you have, have gone to

5:52

an old standard, but sort of surprise

5:54

cause I needed some different coffee. So I actually

5:57

ordered some recently. Cause they are nice

5:59

about delivery. And

6:01

it is the Little City Folk. Grackle?

6:04

No, I did not go grackle. Though

6:06

I might have bought a grackle. And I just haven't

6:08

opened the grackle yet. But I did

6:10

get one of their micro lots. So

6:13

they, they have some sort of

6:15

special, it's, it's sort of like seasonal,

6:17

but it's just, they just don't have a whole

6:19

lot of it. So they call them micro lots. But

6:22

it's their Brazil sitio

6:24

and it's, I'm

6:26

not pronouncing that correctly, folks. We've,

6:29

Kurt and I have discussed many a time on this podcast,

6:31

Jamie's inability to pronounce things

6:33

correctly much less spell

6:35

them. So what

6:38

drew me to it was the

6:40

flavor notes that

6:43

they have, and they're really good about theirs and they're

6:45

usually really accurate. Were ones that

6:47

I just was like, that's just sounds amazingly

6:49

different. And I just, I had

6:51

to try it. So it's caramel

6:54

orange, which I like, like

6:57

both of those were right there. Sweet

6:59

corn. Okay.

7:03

And then Jasmine. Wow.

7:06

Yeah. Wow. And?

7:09

So it's a, it's a, it does, it really

7:11

has sort of a a floral

7:13

aspect to it. And. You

7:16

know, the, the caramel and orange really kind

7:18

of work, work against one another

7:20

in a nice way, um,

7:23

because I think that unlike that Starbucks

7:26

blend that I got that one time during the

7:28

holidays, the gingerbread, I

7:33

don't know what I was thinking. Like

7:35

it, we all make, we all make mistakes. I

7:37

made a mistake. I, I

7:39

did and I, and I do, I do, I

7:42

do enjoy the starbucks quite a bit. But

7:44

yeah, that was a mistake. So this very

7:47

good. I really enjoyed it.

7:50

It sounds really good. I'm kind of, kind

7:53

of jealous.

7:57

You talking about care packages again?

8:00

Well, I think no. Well,

8:03

I mean, I know where I know where to

8:05

get it. I know where to order

8:08

it myself. I like

8:10

that. It sounds some nice flavors. I

8:14

don't remember the exact flavor notes

8:16

in this 1, but, you know I

8:20

was, I was, I was kind of torn

8:22

between 2 choices. This

8:25

birds of paradise, which. Was

8:29

a you know, this medium

8:31

roast, it might have a citrus

8:34

in there and

8:36

then there was another one that was a French

8:39

sort of a French Italian roast or something

8:41

like it was like, no, that's it sounds

8:43

like too much, but it was like French

8:46

and something and I was like, well, it's,

8:49

I think it was going to be too generic. So

8:51

I went with this 1. So anyway,

8:54

And you're pleased. Yeah. Yeah.

8:57

It's it's, it's mild. It's mellow.

8:59

It's like very all subtle. So yeah,

9:02

you know, not too

9:04

much. Yeah, this, this one is complex, but it's

9:06

also a light roast. So like,

9:08

and I'm okay with that. I think if it

9:11

was, if it was darker I

9:14

don't know, I mean, I, I typically like a darker roast

9:16

anyways, but, but with those kinds of notes,

9:18

I think the jasmine sort of like really brightens

9:21

it a lot. So yeah, I, I,

9:23

you know, sometimes you got to mix it up.

9:27

No, no complaints from me on that

9:29

one. So, should

9:31

we go right to the sketch then? Let's go to the

9:33

sketch. And then, and then, and then, yeah,

9:38

there's the reveal. Woo, the

9:41

sketch. Love this sketch. I

9:43

actually when

9:45

I saw you, when I saw you post

9:48

this sketch, um, cause

9:50

the, so this is the Pantheon in

9:53

Rome, not you

9:55

know, something that, something that Jamie has

9:57

sketched many

9:59

times before

10:02

and not to be confused with the Parthenon

10:05

or the Parthenon in Nashville.

10:10

Yeah. Have you been to the Nashville Parthenon?

10:12

Yes. Really? I don't think I have

10:15

not. I don't. No,

10:17

I've not, I've not been to the original Parthenon,

10:19

but I've been to the one in Nashville.

10:21

So, well, I do remember,

10:23

I mean, well, yeah, while you bring that up, I do remember

10:25

as a student learning

10:28

about the Pantheon and the Parthenon

10:32

and, and the tongue twister

10:34

that exists between the 2 names and,

10:36

and often confusing

10:38

the 2. Once you go

10:40

visit the Pantheon, you

10:43

will never confuse the two. Experiencing

10:47

the dome where the sketch is,

10:49

is made with

10:51

the open oculus to the sky, where

10:54

where you have rain. I actually was

10:56

there two

10:59

times and one time.

11:02

It was a little rainy and

11:04

we had a little water coming

11:06

through,

11:07

which is super cool and

11:10

not easy to draw.

11:12

No, I think you nailed it, but

11:15

you were there too with with

11:17

rain. Right? Yeah. Yeah. 1 time,

11:20

which is, which is pretty cool. Yeah,

11:23

no, it is. I mean, arguably

11:25

my favorite building. And

11:28

I think because there

11:30

are, I mean, there are spaces that feel

11:32

magical. You know, there

11:34

are, there are spaces that, you

11:36

know, sort of defy logic. You know,

11:38

I I've been in Hagia Sophia

11:41

in Istanbul which, you

11:43

know, similar kind of feeling of awe,

11:46

you know, where you're just, it's

11:48

just, it's, it's a, just a, a marvel

11:50

of space and construction and design,

11:53

but. And to be in this particular

11:55

space whether it's raining or not is,

11:58

is, it's just pretty amazing. And then when you realize how

12:00

old it is, and just

12:03

the, and, and. You

12:05

know, for, for those who haven't had, you know, the

12:07

opportunity yet to, to visit it in

12:09

Rome, it's it's just nestled within

12:11

the city, you know, within the fabric so

12:14

much. You know, that's, you

12:16

know, the Piazza in front, you

12:18

know, the, the place to get your cappuccino

12:20

across, across the square or

12:23

your beer or whatever, you know, and linger

12:25

a while. These kinds of spaces

12:28

are just amazing. And, um,

12:30

yeah, I could draw this building, you know. umpteen

12:33

times and, and, and

12:35

either, and A, never get it right, but,

12:39

but enjoy every, every time that I do

12:41

it. And and, and

12:44

in this particular case was, was probably

12:46

the first time I think I've ever tried to sketch it with, with

12:48

rain and trying to capture that,

12:51

those kinds of moments. Yeah,

12:53

I think it's just something that it

12:56

was, you know, it's

12:58

thought provoking from a design perspective

13:00

for me. To think about a building,

13:02

even in today's standards, where you

13:05

allow the elements to get inside with

13:07

so much ornament, and, you

13:09

know, amazing finishes, and so many people, and,

13:12

you know, in the middle of a city, and all that, all that

13:14

stuff it's just, it's, it's really

13:16

hard to imagine today allowing

13:18

something that to occur and,

13:22

and then to consider how old it is,

13:24

you know, Is, um,

13:27

you know, equally amazing.

13:30

Yeah. I mean, well, yeah,

13:32

the Romans invented concrete and

13:35

that concrete building hasn't crumbled

13:37

in hundreds of years and,

13:40

and the Oculus, well, I

13:43

mean, we've talked about it before you know, or

13:45

probably bring it up. Every time, but the the

13:48

access Mooney connection

13:51

to God right through, which

13:53

is the Z axis. I think it

13:55

was like, beat into

13:57

our heads as students, you know, like, understanding

14:00

Cartesian or 3

14:02

dimensional space, you know, X.

14:05

Y and Z being

14:08

the vertical dimension. And

14:11

I guess the easy examples are using

14:13

domes things like that,

14:15

that sort of physically

14:18

obvious, you know, moving

14:21

in the upward, you

14:23

know, the Z direction. And I mean, only

14:25

to bring, just bring up the

14:27

fact that again,

14:30

you know, to like the, the, the dome of the

14:32

Pantheon is like. The

14:37

spring line is kind of like, close to the ground

14:39

plane or the floor plane, which is most

14:41

domes are like, it's starts

14:43

much, much higher. So the, the

14:48

top, the crown of the dome is

14:50

much closer to you in

14:53

in the pantheon. Then say

14:57

St. Peter's or the

15:00

Domo in Florence,

15:02

but it is, but the building and

15:04

the space is spherical. And,

15:07

and I think that that's sort of different. It's it isn't

15:09

an elongated

15:10

dome. It's not an egg

15:13

shape.

15:14

Right. Whatever. And, and

15:16

I think maybe the reason why this sort of came

15:18

to mind when it did was, yes,

15:21

folks, I did go to the sphere in

15:23

Vegas. And shortly

15:25

thereafter you know, did

15:28

this sketch actually did this sketch in

15:30

advance of going. To the sphere,

15:34

but it's been on my mind

15:36

sort of the parallels between the two spaces

15:38

and ironically or maybe not,

15:41

maybe it's purposeful was, um,

15:44

this sketch really shows all the interior

15:46

coffers. And sort of

15:49

how that, that coffered dome really

15:51

does sort of, you know, force your

15:53

eye upward as well as makes that

15:55

sort of sense of eye movement in a sketch that

15:58

we talk about so much where there's

16:00

sort of, you know, visual activity that your eye

16:02

kind of, you know, dances around the drawing. And.

16:05

When I did go to see

16:07

you two at the Sphere I think

16:09

the thing that was sort of remarkable was in

16:12

the pre show, right, before the band

16:14

hits the stage, um,

16:16

and, you know, the, the, you're, you're

16:18

walking into the space, and

16:20

the dome isn't dark, you know, the Sphere

16:22

isn't dark when, you know, it's not just sort of blank,

16:25

like, like a movie theater, like, blank screen,

16:27

you know, or whatever. It's, when

16:30

you walk into the space, or at least when you did,

16:33

you know, for, for this, for

16:35

this segment of the performance with, with you

16:37

two. It, they have

16:39

set the sphere to basically

16:43

mimic a coffered situation

16:46

with an octopus, just like

16:48

the Pantheon. That's

16:50

cool. And,

16:53

and so, you know, and, and as you're, and

16:55

as you're looking up, like

16:57

you can almost, you know, and,

16:59

you know, there's, I've seen it on,

17:02

on social media where someone, I didn't

17:04

notice it when I was there, but someone

17:06

had sort of taken a still shot and said,

17:09

look, you can see a bird, you know and

17:11

it it's because it really is sort of a

17:13

situation where, you know, it is remarkable

17:15

on the inside of the sphere, the

17:18

resolution of the screens, the,

17:21

the You

17:23

know, the the change

17:25

in perspective that it really provides you

17:27

in that kind of environment, and

17:30

it does sort of create that sense of wonder

17:32

and and I think that. You

17:35

know, as I talk about all inspiring experience of

17:37

going to the Pantheon, certainly the sphere,

17:40

you know, as a, as a modern Marvel you

17:43

know, really kind of, you know, ties that back

17:45

for me.

17:47

Yeah, that's it. That's

17:49

kind of a fun comparison anecdote

17:52

with the sort of paint

17:54

it or render it to look like a

17:57

coffered Pantheon interior.

18:00

The, the other thing, the only other thing about the sketch

18:04

that we could probably leave on, or, you know, kind of

18:06

tie this, tie this up in just

18:09

to be a quick, a quick episode and

18:11

fun, a fun. You know, sort of catch

18:13

up on on a

18:15

classic is the

18:18

way you rendered the edge or

18:20

the, or how you faded

18:23

the drawing out to

18:26

the paper at the peripheral.

18:29

So the perimeter of the sketch. So

18:31

you have detail sort of very focal

18:33

in the center of

18:35

the sketch itself, which is near the crease

18:38

of your sketchbook. There's the

18:40

most. Intense, you

18:42

know, pen, uh, and

18:44

hatch. And then as you got to the

18:46

edge, it's sort of like in

18:48

SketchUp, it's kind of, they use the, it's

18:51

called like the fog overlay

18:53

or, you know, this sort of like misty,

18:57

fuzzy edge. And

18:59

the point I'm bringing up is that I

19:01

noticed a lot of my students renderings,

19:04

their computer made renderings. They,

19:07

you know, they implement, tried to implement this sort

19:10

of like vignetting or. Foggy

19:13

misty edge to

19:15

their renderings and it's just

19:17

kind of interesting to me. I don't in

19:20

your sketch it to me. It I

19:24

mean, as the style of the sketch,

19:26

right? Where you're not really finishing every

19:28

single line and it's a short sketch,

19:31

but when it comes to a rendering that is generally

19:33

usually generated after tons and tons

19:35

of modeling, you know, hours and hours of computer

19:38

modeling and then they're. Kind

19:40

of like overlaying

19:42

this fog to like remove detail.

19:46

It doesn't, it didn't always work

19:48

in, in my students case. And

19:50

I'm not trying to knock, you know, cause it's a

19:52

hard thing to pull off, but

19:54

it's just interesting. The theme of,

19:58

or not the theme, but the intention

20:02

to try and, and replicate

20:05

some of these. Hand drawn techniques

20:07

in the computer, and that's something

20:10

maybe, you know, in the next episode, we're going

20:12

to talk a little bit about school, but, you know, we could

20:14

talk about that. Well, I mean, you

20:16

know, again, it's not a I, it's

20:18

not, you know, it, you know, we are

20:20

talking about techniques, you know it's,

20:23

it's funny because. You

20:25

know, as we're having this podcast

20:27

and hitting our 140th episode,

20:30

um, where, you know, ironically,

20:33

you know, or not. So Kurt had an

20:35

idea a million years ago for

20:37

us to do a podcast about drawings that

20:40

you can't see and that we're only going to talk about.

20:43

And, you know, in, in

20:45

doing that, it's, it's almost like a prompt,

20:48

right. For AI. And

20:51

we're, you know, we're talking

20:53

about them in reverse. So like I've done

20:55

the drawing and now we're talking about it. But

20:58

to your point, you know, there, there

21:00

is a consciousness about a

21:02

sketch like this, where I

21:04

knew that it is a forced

21:06

perspective, you know, it's

21:08

a one point perspective. But

21:10

at the same time to. do

21:13

a one point perspective on a spherical

21:16

space, spherical space,

21:18

that's hard to say you know, where

21:20

you are trying to emphasize that z axis

21:23

that you talked about. The,

21:25

I think the only way to really capture it

21:27

and, and to give it that magic,

21:30

for lack of a better term, is

21:32

to really blur those edges. And

21:35

the only way to do that in my mind

21:37

was to really emphasize

21:40

The focal point, the

21:42

horizon, and then work

21:45

detail immediately from that,

21:47

almost like a cone. So your

21:49

cone of vision of detail is

21:51

all through that space, and you

21:53

can imagine that sort of coming back at

21:56

you. And, and the

21:58

detail, and what, the way I implemented

22:00

that as a technique here is, it's

22:02

a pencil drawing to start off with. And

22:06

a very light pencil drawing, the

22:08

shade and shadow is added to give

22:10

it more depth and texture and

22:13

detail. But purposely not

22:15

trying to do too many lines in pencil,

22:18

and then all the line work is actually

22:20

done in ink. And so the line

22:22

work in where it's added

22:24

to the drawing is really trying to emphasize

22:27

that conical vision that

22:29

Kurt's picking up on with the perspective. And

22:32

that what that inadvertently does

22:34

is all the areas where there isn't pen

22:37

and it's just more sort of saturated

22:40

graphite on the page is

22:42

it does sort of feel foggy around

22:45

these edges and it, It

22:48

I have tried to do this kind of technique

22:50

in the past, but not with this particular

22:52

building. So this is the 1st time I've done it with the Pantheon.

22:55

And I think it's actually been pretty successful.

22:59

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm glad you because

23:02

this sketch came out a couple of weeks ago and

23:04

we almost missed it. We

23:07

move past it so quickly. And so you

23:10

reminded me to circle back. So anyway,

23:13

so thanks. Thanks, Jamie. Beautiful sketch

23:15

as always. And also

23:18

with. You know, the, the favorite,

23:21

the favorite of the show, the

23:23

pantheon.

23:25

So thanks Kurt.