0:06

Welcome back, everyone, to Coffee with COJO. This is a different host Anna Poull speaking with you today.

0:12

And today we have guest Vernon Brown with us. Vernon, could you give us a little bit of an introduction?

0:18

Sure. I'm a South Dakota farm boy. I grew up between Hampton and Badger, South Dakota.

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Do you know where that is? Not quite. I went to high school all my school years at Arlington, which is just 18 miles west of Brookings.

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So that's where I grew up on a farm there. And I've been with SDSU now for about a year, almost to the month.

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And a new role for CSU. It's called the associate vice President for External Affairs.

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What that really means is connecting the campus and all that SDSU has to offer to the businesses,

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nonprofits, governments and schools in Sioux Falls and really shortening that gap,

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that 45 minute gap between Sioux Falls, this fast growing city and and campus and all the resources it has to offer.

1:07

That is awesome. I guess with your connections between campus and Sioux Falls,

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what has been the biggest difference between the campus life that you saw as a student versus in this new position?

1:21

Oh, easily the size and scope of SDSU.

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You know, when I was a student there, I graduated in 1990.

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There were 2500 fewer students and a lot fewer buildings and certainly not a

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stadium the size that we see on the campus today that holds over 19,000 people.

1:39

I would say the other thing that has changed, I mean, don't get me wrong, there was great energy and momentum on the campus.

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Oh, my gosh, 33 years ago. But today when I come to campus and most of my days, as you understand,

1:53

are spent in Sioux Falls, but I do come to campus on average about once a week.

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There is a different energy and momentum at SDSU than when I was a student, and it is just exciting to be a part of that.

2:07

That is great to hear, especially today on one day first state when we're recording,

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there is a lot more energy around campus and Vernon is showing off his pen, so he's definitely here to support.

2:17

Yes. Yes. I gave my donation a little early this weekend, as did my daughter, who's a sophomore at SDSU, who is tight with her money.

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But even she wanted to participate one day for State.

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It's great to see that kind of support coming from everyone, especially with the new connections are making in Sioux Falls.

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What has been the most rewarding part or the best connections to be building?

2:44

You know, there are a couple of things. My role is really SDSU connect that connection to Sioux Falls,

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and I think the probably the two most exciting things are the potential that we have in this market.

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You know, Sioux Falls grows every four years.

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We add as many people as live in Brookings. 6000 people a year moving to Sioux Falls.

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So there is great potential. But within that, we also have to recognize that a lot of people are moving to Sioux Falls from other places.

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They don't know South Dakota State University. They don't know what we have to offer.

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They don't understand our deep, long traditions.

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They maybe don't understand what it means to be a land grant university.

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And we can talk about that later. But we, myself and Raegan Weirich, who works with me here in Sioux Falls, we have a responsibility to tell that story in Sioux Falls.

3:40

And I've been in this role for about a year and don't tell anyone, Ana,

3:44

but the job has actually been easier than I expected because there is just an excitement.

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And that momentum that I mentioned when I started, people or businesses and governments were reaching out to me saying,

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Hey, we're so glad that there's a point of contact in Sioux Falls.

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Now. We want a connection to the university. And it can be everything from internships, of course, workforce talent.

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Sometimes it's about research, but even the school district recognizes what's happening on campus.

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The Sioux Falls School district leaders in the district have told me they have never seen a time in their tenure with the Sioux Falls School

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District of the momentum that SDC has and its connectedness to Sioux Falls students and and also the hospitable environment that SDSU offers.

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One of our big initiatives that Reagan spends his most time on is We're president doesn't

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want every Sioux Falls eighth grader in the public school system have a campus visit.

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And that's 1800 students. We have to figure out how to get to campus,

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give them a rich academic and extracurricular experience on campus in the hopes that we want them to come to SDSU in five years.

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But more importantly, we want them to think of higher education as a as a path for them,

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whether or not they come to CSU because it's good for Sioux Falls, it's good for Brookings, it's good for South Dakota.

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The more students that we get on a path for higher education.

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1800 eighth graders. That's a lot of a lot of kids to bring to campus.

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We'll have more than 600 coming on October 24th and 25th divided over two days.

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Two middle schools will be coming in October. On those days, it'll be Patrick Henry Middle School.

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And I have to think. But the other one is Edison Middle School here in Sioux Falls, there are six middle schools.

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And this program really started with a program that former or an alum started promising futures.

5:59

Steve Hildebrand is his name. He started this program with what are called the title Middle Schools in Sioux Falls,

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the three middle schools that have had very high rates of poverty. More than 50% of their students are in free and reduced lunches,

6:12

where he brings a portion of those students to SDSU and then also divides them up amongst us.

6:20

D Dakota State University and Augie, he started this program and we saw the rewards in that and students being validated that they can go to college,

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that one is more affordable than most people think.

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And to that that, you know, a president didn't always talks about we can't be what we can't see.

6:42

We have to show those eighth graders that they can do it.

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So as a result of the success, the Promising Futures Program, President Dunn said, let's expand it to all.

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But this goes even back farther. When he became president eight years ago, he saw the changing demographics of Sioux Falls and recognized Estes.

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You had to be prepared for that and be able to serve them and be accessible for all those students.

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So that's what Reagan and I do every day is is reach out to those students,

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reach out to businesses and nonprofits, and extend the university's resources to Sioux Falls.

7:17

That is great. And so as DACA students, October 24th and 25th is the time to either make good impressions of the eighth graders or hide in your dorms.

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So the union is a totally crowded. No, I got to see.

7:31

That's another surprise for me, Ana. Not that SDSU students haven't always been kind, but it was just a great reminder when I came back to campus.

7:39

When I walk on campus, they'll smile, they'll greet me.

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They open doors. Maybe because I'm old, I don't know what it is, but I just I enjoy being around the students and and there is just a great culture of.

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People being good. The Midwest.

7:57

Nice that we like to see at first. Use you exactly in between when you graduated and coming back within the last year, what were you doing in between that gap?

8:08

Oh, that's a number of years. You know, when I graduated in 1990 with a B.A. in journalism, but an emphasis in broadcast and I had an opportunity to either go the newspaper route,

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I had some job offers, newspapers, but ultimately I decided to go work for Keller.

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LAMB TV, the CBS affiliate here in Sioux Falls, which was really just a great opportunity growing up here.

8:32

I grew up watching cable TV, so it was fun to go work there.

8:36

I spent a year at Aberdeen in what they called the Bureau Office, but then the bulk, my 12 years right here in Sioux Falls,

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covering city government, the legislature, and then just whatever news stories of the day.

8:50

And it was a great experience and it really taught me the art of storytelling, presentation skills and living by deadlines.

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And, you know, that's something that we can all learn from.

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So great experience. I loved doing that, but I reached a point once I was married and we wanted a family working nights, weekends, holidays.

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I was looking for a change of pace and and the industry was changing too.

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And I decided that, you know, maybe I should explore other things.

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And so from there I went to SD and Communications.

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It's a broadband service provider for businesses locally owned by the independent

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telecommunications broadband companies all across rural South Dakota,

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including Swift Bell and Brookings. And I spent 20 years there as the vice president of marketing.

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And there I really learned just what just great business skills and also management skills and marketing.

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That's what I learned there from there.

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While I was there, I served on the Sioux Falls City Council for eight years,

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which was that was something when I left media, I knew I wanted to serve and give back to my community.

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I had covered city government. It fascinated me. I of course, when I was in the media, I couldn't serve in government.

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But when I when the CEO of SDM was interviewing me, I said, Hey, I might want to do this someday.

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And he encouraged it. So again, I learned some great leadership skills from him and allowing people to serve.

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And he was a public servant in many ways too, in different ways.

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So I served eight years on the City Council and there I think I learned a lot about leadership listening to people.

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Budgeting and also being visionary and learning how to execute on a vision.

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Great lessons in my time there. And then my wife and I started the Spice and Tea Exchange business on a small business on Phillips Avenue,

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selling exactly what the name says, spices and teas. And my wife runs that day to day.

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I help out nights, weekends and where I can.

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Sometimes that means changing light bulbs and cleaning and those kinds of things.

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But I also help her around the sales floor some. I think that that business has taught us both my wife and I, how to be bold and fearless.

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It can be scary running a small business.

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And then finally at SDSU, it's taught me the importance of what you do for a living needs to also be your passion.

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I loved all my jobs, but I can't tell you what it means to be working for an organization that makes me proud every day and for a leader that makes me proud.

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President Dunne is an amazing servant leader who just knows how to communicate well with people.

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Use people for their strengths to do good and and just tell you whenever I'm with him and he's connecting with people.

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He is just magnetic and how people want to be around him.

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They want to serve the university through him. And people love Barry, as I always tell him.

12:01

I don't agree that. Yeah. You see him around campus and everyone's excited to see him use his own celebrity at football games and other events.

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Everyone's like, Did you see that President Dunn is here today?

12:13

I think time as a student, it's so fun at football games when he makes his way over to the student section to sit with you

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all and and if he's tied up and then running a little late when the students start chanting,

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Barry, I don't know how many presidents receive that kind of welcoming from the students,

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but but it's because he's a genuinely good person and a servant leader.

12:38

It is difficult to walk across campus with him. It takes a long time, not because he's slow,

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but because he's wants to talk to students and he wants to hear how they're doing and how they're succeeding or what challenges they face.

12:51

And I assure you, those conversations are sincere with him.

12:56

That is great to hear. Barry Dunn definitely cares a lot for this university.

13:01

And you mentioned quite a bit about servant leadership and how you serve your community.

13:06

Can you talk to students about the value of service and servant leadership?

13:11

You know, my career path has benefited more from my servant servicing my community than anything else.

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It helps, you know, and understand the history of the community or organization that you serve.

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It just gives you more meaning in your work life.

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So I encourage and I've always encouraged employees of mine to do that.

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And Reagan rhetoric is the same. I've encouraged him to get involved in Sioux Falls and in organizations.

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I mean, he's right out of college. And so I encouraged him to get involved in the Young Professionals Network here in Sioux Falls.

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You know, you have to find your path Once you get out of school.

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You may not get on the city council or you immediately or you may not get into chamber leadership.

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But fine, We're a good entry point for you is and then give and give your time, your talent,

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your treasure, and and it will pay dividends to you over the course of your career.

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And I'm certainly an example of that. There is a certain component of service in media.

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It's a noble career that benefited me in my next step.

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And then serving on the City Council has benefited me in this role.

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It has benefited me. My wife and I, in owning a small business and people knowing us.

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And there's just such a great sense of mission when you get back wherever you can in a community or nonprofit organization.

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With students having classes and sometimes working part time.

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Do you have any recommendations on where they can find places deserve how they can fit that into their schedule?

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A good first starting step. There are so many opportunities on campus.

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That's another big change I forget. I think it's like 200 clubs and organizations.

15:04

That's a great entry point. When my daughters came to campus last year, we encouraged her, Get involved, find clubs that are interested to you.

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And in her case, it's benefited her already in her short one year as a student on campus.

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A couple examples. She immediately jumped into the Taylor Swift Society, which just cracks me up.

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But those are some enthusiastic fans. And I thought, what is she going to get out of this?

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But one, I knew she'd make great friends out of that and she has.

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But more importantly, by the end of the year, she was the social media public relations manager.

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You know what? It's now leading her to think about a career in that because she's enjoyed it so much.

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And her academic advisor said, You seem to be enjoying this. Nowhere was public relations or marketing on her radar.

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I tried to encourage that because I've had a great career in that.

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But Dad's doing it. Why would I do it? And I don't know that she's fully connected, that this is what her old man has done for a living.

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Don't tell her she might change her mind.

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But that's an example of where she went in to a committee,

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got actively involved and served in the committee and worked her way into leadership and has found a possible career path.

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And the other example for her is and again, her mother and I suggested she get involved in admissions as a student ambassador.

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Wasn't a good idea when mom and dad suggested. However, when the admissions staff asked her if she'd be interested, suddenly it was a great idea.

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So this year she moved in early to campus and is working as a student ambassador and loves it.

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Getting connected across campus now that's a paid position, but there's a service element to it as well.

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And they work hard, go student ambassadors and give a lot to the university.

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And she's learning and growing as a result of that.

17:02

So I would say in college, the best thing you can do is to get involved in an organization, a club, whatever, and just give your best.

17:12

But Brookings is such a great community and there are so many ways to be involved there as well.

17:18

You don't have to look too hard to find it. You do have to do a little bit of homework to find it, though.

17:23

Homework should be pretty familiar to everyone on campus, so shouldn't be difficult.

17:27

Hopefully. Agreed. You talked a little bit about the business that you and your wife have the spice into exchange.

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Could you talk about what it was like starting that up, difficulties, challenges where you saw the benefits?

17:41

So, General, for anyone else interested in starting their own business?

17:45

Sure. Well, this grew out of my wife had been an educator, an English teacher,

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high school level for 25 years, 20 of them at Washington High School here in Sioux Falls.

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She loved juniors and seniors that she taught.

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But being an English teachers hard work, damn hard work, you know, she composition classes and so she'd have a portfolio of 125 students,

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make an assignment, come home literally with a remote paper to correct.

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And it was killing her. It was hard, hard work and said, I just don't know if I can do this until retirement.

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Well, she'd always loved retail and in her early in her career, had worked some retail jobs in the summer and nights and weekends.

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And she's got we're both kind of foodies and we were on vacation in Gatlinburg, Tennessee,

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just wandering around on their cute downtown one day and wandered into the spice and tea exchange there.

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I don't think we were had been in the store for 3 minutes and my wife said, this is what I want.

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And she wasn't just talking about a bag of spice. She wanted the store.

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So we joked for about a year.

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I teased her about having a spice store t store, and we didn't take it very seriously.

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And then one, it was an Easter and she literally had a dream of paper that she needed a stack of papers that she had to crack,

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and she was just burnt out and kind of resentful that her holiday had to be spent correcting papers.

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And I said, When are you going to get serious about this? We're not getting any younger.

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If you want to make a change, you need to do it now. From that point on, we spent the next two years planning How can we do this financially?

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How can we do this with the jobs that we have today? What is it going to mean to our family?

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And, you know, we took a big risk. It's scary starting a business, but she's loved it.

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Even on these hard the hard days. She's absolutely loved it.

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I wouldn't recommend opening a brand new business nine months before a pandemic.

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But you know what? It worked out because people were home, stuck at home, tired of coffee, drinking more tea.

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Certainly restaurants weren't open. They were cooking more at home and looking for ways to spice up their home cooking.

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And in the end, you don't see it when you go into it. But in the end, it really worked out.

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But all of it, you know, both Tami and my career path and starting a store really taught us the value of hard work, but maybe more importantly, grit.

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And that's probably a message, especially for your generation,

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that I would say find that stick to it and figure out how to get it done even when there are obstacles in your way.

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And that, too, will serve you well. Just never, never, never give up.

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To quote Winston Churchill. I like that.

20:39

You talked about how unexpected being covered in this case really helped you guys build your business in a way you didn't expect.

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And to look on the bright side of things when bumps in the road come along.

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You know, I have to say it was frightening, but I it was so out of our control, I couldn't worry about it.

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I mean, we weren't the only ones in that boat which misery loves company, right?

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So we just had to go with the flow and adjust and change.

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And in some respects, I think my wife would say maybe it was a little bit harder for her, even in starting the business,

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because she hadn't been exposed to business like I had and financials and all that goes with that.

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But, you know, she was used to very planned environment.

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And at one point when she was struggling with it all, I said, Honey, there's no lesson plan for a business.

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I mean, yes, there are strategic plans and there's visions and missions and core values, but it really it's by the seat of your pants most days.

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And you just have to be able to react, Look, listen and learn from your mistakes.

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And and I think and to her credit, I think that was kind of a light bulb moment for her when when she's like, oh, you mean that there isn't a plan.

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We just. There is, but there is. And you just have to be able to go with it.

22:00

Sounds like flexibility was pretty key in that adjustment. And I think that's a difficult transition from high school to college.

22:07

It's a lot more structured in high school, and college has some structure, but definitely more openness that comes with it.

22:13

Yeah, I would say a students environment is not a lot different than one of my wife's experience was a teacher.

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There's a game plan. You stick pretty close to the game plan. You adjust a little bit here and there.

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But but yeah, it's pretty freewheeling in the business environment.

22:28

Yeah, I would agree with that. And so then touching back on how your service on city council and starting that

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business that help you with the connections that you'd already established.

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Yeah. You know, I think one of the reasons that President Dunn asked me to serve was because of

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all of those connections I built over 30 plus year career in Sioux Falls Media.

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Working at Keller TV gave me the opportunity to see what everyone else did for a living.

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And it also created a some notoriety, maybe for me.

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I mean, I became a bit of a known commodity in the market.

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People knew me because they saw me on the news every night.

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So that that helped my career. And certainly in business, the man and city council, I just made contacts across the city.

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But like what I was telling you with, with SDSU and all the new people moving to the market, we constantly have to be in front of them and make it.

23:36

I have to continue to make connections of people that I haven't encountered in

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my 30 year career to help them know and understand what our CSU has to offer.

23:47

How do you go about making those new connections?

23:50

We talk a lot about networking at college, but it can be a little daunting to go talk to someone for the first time.

23:57

Yes, I suppose that's another lesson I learned at TV,

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because I was thrown into situations with stories all the time and I had to make a connection with the person.

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And often it was a sales job in the sense that I had to convince someone.

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Sometimes in the worst of circumstances, it's the worst day of their life in many cases.

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And I had to convince them to go in front of a camera and a microphone and talk to me about that experience or whatever was going on.

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So you have to learn. No, that's no first lesson of speech class, but also know how to be sincere.

24:35

And the most important lesson I ever learned through all of that was probably how to listen.

24:42

And the person that taught me that was the former governor of South Dakota,

24:46

Bill Janklow, who had sort of a tumultuous relationship with reporters, including me.

24:54

And one time he confessed to me an off camera moment that it doesn't matter what I say to reporters, they're not listening.

25:00

They're only thinking about their next question. And I was like, note to self.

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And he made me a better reporter as a result of that conversation.

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And so it's no different when when you as a student are going in front of someone, ask questions.

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But don't be thinking about your next question.

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Truly pause and listen to whether it's another student or it's a professor or it's someone that's interviewing you for an internship or a job.

25:30

Truly listening to the question, taking a moment to respond.

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And you're going to come across more sincerely. And they're going to appreciate that.

25:38

They will recognize it intuitively, and that genuineness will pay off in getting internships,

25:48

getting jobs, but more importantly, connecting with people. They're going to remember you.

25:52

It's the differentiator. Now I'm wondering how often Vernon's wondered if I'm asking more questions than my brain.

25:59

Well, he's talking, of course, but the connections are talked about so much at college,

26:05

and I would agree that having those connections of people has opened up some opportunities that I wouldn't have expected.

26:11

And I think that's where that leads to. As you've talked about, this is a new position that you're in now.

26:16

And we your connections helped you get to this point in your career?

26:21

Absolutely. I don't I wouldn't be in this career if not for the paths I took and the connections that I had in this market,

26:30

including connecting with President Dunn through the years.

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You know, a funny story, how I found out about the position, President Dunn's chief of staff, Karen Webber.

26:40

She and I grew up together and she was the one that called me and said, Hey, we have a position that kind of fits with what your skills are.

26:49

You should think about it. And again, and it was about that connection to her and then ultimately connecting with I mean, it's a process getting hired in higher education.

26:59

There's a search committee. You don't interview with one person, you interview with a committee,

27:03

but connecting with them and in the interview process and truly listening to their

27:08

questions and taking a moment to pause and reflect and respond in a genuine way,

27:15

that's a difference maker, hopefully, that students can pick up when they're in that situation.

27:21

How can students use CSU connect to build those connections like you talked about?

27:26

Where can they learn more? How can they find which businesses are part of this program?

27:32

You know, I would say, first of all, you have a great a great career services office.

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Utilize the talent they have there to help you with your resume,

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help you with interview skills, connecting with businesses that that connect with that office.

27:47

But, you know, we're we're a year into this.

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And one great example is we just announced within the last week or two the Nest School of management in

27:57

economics is going to have what they're calling an outpost in downtown Sioux Falls at start up Sioux Falls.

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It's an entrepreneurial environment right in the heart of the city.

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And they're going to be offering econ students, career fairs, their interviews there.

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And so even with Cojo, it's internship fair in some students might just think it's just an internship interview.

28:29

But you never know where that one interview could lead. I'll give you a perfect example.

28:33

Dylan Nichols When I was working at SD and Communications, he was a marketing student that I interviewed with us as a sophomore.

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Well, we typically hired juniors and higher because they just didn't have a lot of marketing classes.

28:46

He did a really nice job in the interview, just made a nice impression on us, but we didn't hire him as a sophomore.

28:53

However. The next year. We just were finding not exactly the the intern candidates that we wanted.

29:01

And it hit me. What about Dylan Nichols, who we interviewed last year?

29:05

Because he made such an impression with me. I remembered him. We called him up.

29:10

He came to interview with us. He had more experience.

29:13

He had grown and just emotionally in that year.

29:17

And and he was a great intern for us. So never discount.

29:21

Oh, it's just an interview. You don't know how you're going to impact that that person across the table.

29:27

And that could turn into an opportunity. Even when it doesn't work out the first time.

29:32

It sounds like down the road it leads to something. Yeah, it goes back to grit.

29:38

That is fair. Yeah. So one fun fact that I learned recently about you is, Oh, have a beer named after you.

29:47

I do. I unfortunately do. I have a can opener.

29:53

An empty can and say, approve it.

29:56

It's empty. Yeah, here it is. It's the downtown Vernon Brown ale.

30:03

One story about how that came together. So when I was at SD and I worked with Fresh produce marketing firm here in Sioux Falls,

30:11

and our media buyer, her husband was an amateur brewmaster, and he and his wife called me.

30:20

They were he was going to name the beer just downtown brown ale.

30:24

And she's my nickname when I was a color TV reporter, was downtown Vernon Brown.

30:29

And she said, you should call it downtown Vernon Brown Ale. They called and asked if he could do that.

30:35

And I said, Sure. And they gave me some you know, he was not working professionally.

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He was just an amateur at that point. And it was really good, kind of I'd compare it to a new castle, darker, but kind of red.

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And then he started working for Looks Market here in Sioux Falls as the brewmaster.

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And he called me and said, Hey, can I brew that beer?

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Put your name on it. And I said, Yes, of course, not realizing how much it would really cost me,

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because when this came out, every friend, every college friend relative wanted me to send them some.

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So this beer is cost me a lot of money inadvertently.

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But it's it's been a fun, fun thing. I told my wife when I die and my obituary, I wanted to say, Hey, there was a beer named after him.

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You all are probably going to be one of the only ones with that opportunity to have.

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A lot of my college friends said, Oh my gosh, you made it.

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Not only is Vernon a celebrity TV star, he also has a beer named after him.

31:41

Yes, it was a fun experience. You guys can't see it, but we're talking in person over Zoom.

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And when I said I learned a fun fact about Vernon, I just saw a little bit of uncertainty about what I was about to say.

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So I enjoyed that on my end of things. And then you also see in my background here the masthead from The Collegian.

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I do my college time and activities and again, it's sort of a public service as well.

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And that was the masthead for my last edition in May of 1998.

32:17

Do you remember what was in that edition? What were you guys focusing on?

32:20

Oh, man, I'm sure it was about parking issues on campus and end of the year stop and probably a column by me being reflective and my time at SDSU,

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I suspect I'd have to go back and look.

32:36

It would be fun to see how your style has changed from then to kind of work that you did in communications throughout your career.

32:44

Yeah, I probably was really green and would be embarrassed to share the stories and the maturity in them at that point.

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But, you know, that's where I really cut my reporting teeth and they are to working at the college is what got me noticed.

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By the time the Argus Leader I did some freelancing in college for them, which got me noticed by Cholo TV, which resulted in me getting my first job.

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So those organizations you're in today on campus do make a difference and do connect you to the start of your career.

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Feel like the big theme of this interview has been connections, the importance of grit, and then also that service aspect like we've talked about.

33:29

I think that's been my life. Those are the pillars that we're talking about here,

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but I think they all work together so great and you tide them in and give such great examples of how they worked in your life or in others lives.

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And you've seen the progress from that and the benefits. I have.

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It's been a great ride and I look for more fun doing it and doing it for to.

33:53

It. It's been great talking with you, Vernon. I'm glad to see that you're in this position for us.

33:57

Yes. You can hear how passionate you are and see how excited you are to be doing this before we part ways.

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Is there any last advice or stories you'd like to share with their listeners?

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And maybe just one quick one. As a student, I didn't appreciate this.

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I appreciate it more as an adult. But but Sdsu's mission of being a land grant university is so important, being accessible to all.

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And I think the students embody that an issue and live it in what I described earlier about just being good humans,

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connecting with each other and enjoying the experience.

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That's important. Have fun while you're there.

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This podcast is the property of the School of Communication and Journalism at South Dakota State University, which reserves all rights to its use.

34:45

Music by Cody M Johnson and Tyler at James is licensed through AP Music.