0:15

Pushkin. Hi,

0:21

Emily, and

0:24

I am I have

0:26

a question for you. I'm sleeping with a guy

0:29

right now and his penis

0:31

is like really really

0:34

really curved, like really curved. The

0:38

idea of talking about genitals for an hour and it

0:40

really really makes me happy, Like

0:43

I was thinking in the car, like of all

0:45

the things I want to say about penises.

0:53

I'm Emily Nagaski and this is

0:55

the Come as you Are podcast where

0:57

I answer questions about sex with

0:59

science. I'm here with mo My,

1:02

a producer extraordinaire. So

1:04

Emily, we have gotten

1:06

a lot of questions from the hotline, as you know,

1:09

and today the question I'm bringing

1:11

you is about basically

1:14

penis anatomy. Yay,

1:17

let's talk about penises. I

1:20

really did not expect one of our first episodes

1:22

to be about penises. I know a lot

1:24

of your audience is sis women,

1:27

and I really did not expect a huge amount

1:29

of penis convo from the get

1:31

go. But you know what, here we are. You know,

1:33

a surprising number of women

1:35

and fems have sex with people with penises.

1:38

I always forget that. I always

1:40

forget a lot of people interact with penises.

1:44

It's a lot of people I'm continuing

1:46

to remind myself that a lot of people have

1:48

or interact with penises. In fact, most people

1:50

have or interact with penises, and

1:53

it's not even about gender. Some women have

1:55

penises, genitals do not a

1:58

gender make this is a show

2:00

where penises are welcome. Thank

2:03

you Emily for saying that. Okay, let's

2:07

go ahead and get into it. So

2:10

let me play this week's question for you. Hi,

2:13

Emily, I have a question for you about

2:16

the male anatomy, specifically the

2:18

penis. I'm sleeping

2:20

with a guy right now and his

2:23

penis is like really

2:25

really really curved, like really

2:27

curved, and I don't care.

2:29

I mean, he's it

2:32

gets the job done. He's just really embarrassed

2:34

about it, and like, yeah,

2:37

I just want to know it's that normal.

2:39

Is there a reason for it? Is it because

2:41

he's like jerking it too hard to one side

2:43

or like, I don't know, it's normal?

2:46

Can I hurt it? Can I break it? Oh?

2:48

You know? Thanks? Yes,

2:53

it is completely normal. It is common. And

2:55

if there's one thing I want to accomplish with this podcast,

2:57

it's to make sure you can look

2:59

at your genitals and any of your partner's

3:01

genitals and know that they're all

3:04

normal. They're all normal, they're

3:06

all beautiful, and I

3:08

can even explain why because the science

3:11

says so. I just

3:13

want to start by thanking this listener for calling

3:15

in. There is so much to unpack in this call.

3:18

You know, I'm hearing worry, I'm hearing

3:20

like cultural myths about masturbation, wanting

3:23

to reassure your partner, and also just

3:25

myths about basic anatomy. So

3:28

let's start with what you just said,

3:30

that a curved penis is totally

3:32

normal. Can you say more about that?

3:35

I did actually look at the research to see if there's

3:37

like documentation about what proportion

3:39

of people have a penis that points

3:41

in one direction or another that doesn't exist.

3:44

I'm not actually sure how they do it, because how

3:46

much of a curve counts is a curve because some of the

3:48

curves are just a little bit, and some

3:50

of them are pretty pronounced.

3:53

But ultimately, every single penis

3:55

is different from every single other penis,

3:58

and there is no

4:00

normal. They're all normal. The only

4:04

thing that isn't normal is if

4:06

your genitals are causing you pain. If you're

4:08

not in pain, then the answer is yes normal. And

4:10

if you're experiencing pain, talk to a medical provider.

4:13

Fortunately, with a penis, your doctor is likely

4:16

to take your concerns seriously. So

4:20

dark and so true. Can

4:22

you explain, like anatomically what

4:25

causes the curve? It's actually

4:27

the curve part itself is really simple.

4:30

So most of the time when we think about penises, we

4:32

just think about this one shaft with a sort

4:34

of cap on the end of it, right, like

4:36

a mushroom kind of shape. But did

4:39

you know the shaft is actually

4:41

made of three separate chambers,

4:44

all enclosed within the shaft. So

4:47

there's two corpora cavernosa,

4:50

the cavernous bodies, and

4:52

then there's one corpus spongiosum,

4:54

which is the one that the urethra runs

4:57

through. So when you imagine a shaft,

4:59

don't just imagine one solid

5:01

shaft. Imagine three

5:04

shafts all wrapped up together. I

5:07

like to imagine it as like

5:09

columns. Great, so we have

5:11

like a burrito made out of

5:13

these three columns, right, but it's

5:15

just a burrito with three hot dogs in it.

5:20

The three hot dog coco. I love that if

5:22

one is shorter than the

5:25

other, it's going to curve

5:27

toward the short one. And if

5:29

all three of these chambers of

5:31

the shaft are the same length, then

5:34

the penis is straight. You

5:36

can't see the hand gestures I am made,

5:40

right, So you're saying that if one of

5:42

the hot dogs in the whole wrap

5:45

up in here, the penis is

5:47

shorter than the other one, then the curve

5:49

is going to bend towards

5:51

the short bend in the direction

5:54

of the shorter one, right, because they all

5:56

grow together, and the

5:58

longer ones will continue to grow beyond

6:01

the point that the shorter one has

6:03

fully extended already. WHOA

6:06

Like, It's this very simple, very slight,

6:08

anatom comical difference. It's completely

6:10

normal. It's just a way people's

6:13

penises can look. M Okay,

6:15

Is it kind of like when you have a lopsided labia,

6:17

like one of the labia minora is bigger

6:19

than the other one, Yeah, which is

6:22

very often the case. Right, totally.

6:24

And I should say, if this is

6:26

not clear already, that I am not a

6:28

sex educator. Emilie

6:31

Nagaski is the professional sex educator,

6:33

and I am just a lesbian podcast producer.

6:36

So my reactions are very much

6:39

based on my non scientific but

6:41

prolific personal experiences

6:43

that labia labia's they're

6:46

very rarely symmetrical. They are

6:48

very rarely symmetrical. And labia

6:50

is the plural. Wait, labia

6:53

is plural. One of my labia

6:55

is this size, but my other labium

6:58

is this other size. Uh huh,

7:01

Okay, this is a

7:03

little grammar lesson you did not get

7:05

in school. Yeah, And

7:07

I think culturally we spend a bunch of time

7:10

trying to help people with Volva's understand

7:13

that their anatomy is normal. That's what

7:15

it's supposed to look like

7:17

like. They have hair, they have inner

7:19

labia, they have outer labia. The size

7:22

of all those parts can vary, and

7:25

there's no need to get surgery to correct

7:28

any of that. If your genitals are not causing

7:30

you pain, you're all set.

7:33

You're not just all set, you're

7:35

perfect. And the same thing is

7:37

true about penises. If one

7:39

of the chambers of your penal

7:42

shaft is shorter than

7:44

the others, it's going to point in at a direction.

7:46

That is not an indication of a problem. You don't need to

7:48

get surgery corrected. Is just part

7:51

of the beautiful variety of

7:54

human sexual anatomy. I

7:56

think one of the reasons that we people

7:59

have so much embarrassment about their shape

8:01

or their size or their lopsidedness.

8:04

Might be that there's no zero

8:06

We've never seen any of that import

8:09

at all. You know, there are times when

8:11

I feel like I was born at just the

8:13

right time. Like I saw

8:16

a partner's penis in real life

8:19

before I ever saw a

8:21

penis in porn, so I didn't have

8:23

this big hole like set

8:25

of ideas about what penises

8:28

look like, reinforcing that, like if there's only this

8:30

one way that penises can look like. And

8:32

anybody younger than me I was in graduated

8:35

from high school in nineteen ninety five. I

8:37

feel like anybody younger than me was

8:40

going to have access to porn, maybe

8:42

before they ever saw a partner's

8:45

penis in real life. I

8:47

don't even remember which one came first for me.

8:50

I was that young, I guess, or I just I

8:52

have no idea which one came first, but probably

8:55

born. Yeah, porn is such bad sex education.

8:57

Porn is what it is. The metaphor

9:00

I often use is that learning about sex

9:02

by watching porn is like learning about

9:04

driving by watching NASCAR. Those

9:07

are trained professionals on a closed

9:09

course with a pit crew. That

9:12

is not a representation of how sex actually works

9:14

in real life, and most mainstream

9:17

porn is really limited, like there's

9:19

only one kind of car in Nascar, Like

9:22

there's only one right kind of body in

9:24

porn. Right. They very much value

9:26

the long, thick, straight penis

9:28

in porn as if that's the only erotic

9:31

kind of penis there is. It is not right

9:34

exactly. In real life. There's

9:36

diversity, there's variety, there

9:38

is messiness. There are curious,

9:42

surprising, funny, noisy,

9:45

wet, sticky things that happen,

9:47

and that's fun and good. I love

9:49

it. Okay, So I

9:51

have a personal experience with a curved

9:53

penis, which was that my high school

9:55

boyfriend, one of my high school boyfriends.

9:58

It was the first penis I had ever seen, and it

10:01

was his first time ever, like, you know,

10:03

showing his penis to anyone besides I guess

10:05

the doctor. And it

10:08

was extreme curved, now

10:10

I know, extremely curved. And he was like, is

10:12

this normal? And I was like, I don't know, bro,

10:15

I really don't know. And

10:18

now imagine if your high school sex ed class

10:20

had shown the three chambers and had

10:22

explained very simply that if one of the chambers

10:25

is shorter than the others, then there's going to be a curve

10:27

and he knows it's normal. That's all it takes.

10:30

And it would have been life changing

10:32

for him because he was so

10:34

ashamed. And he went to the doctor

10:36

and the doctor basically dismissed his feelings

10:39

and was like, yeah, it's normal whatever. And he was like, yeah,

10:41

but is no one ever gonna love me?

10:43

Am I never gonna be but I have good sex, Like

10:46

am I do? I have a defective

10:48

penis. And he was so

10:50

upset about it, and I really couldn't comfort

10:53

him because I didn't know anything about penises. I

10:56

didn't know what to say, Like, it didn't look normal

10:59

to me, but I didn't know, like it didn't look normal compared

11:01

to what I saw in the medical

11:03

diagram. Yeah.

11:05

I also have a personal story. In my

11:07

twenties, many moons ago, I had

11:10

a partner with quite a curved

11:12

penis. But I already knew

11:14

this, and I could explain to him, Oh

11:17

why, And

11:20

it made so much of a difference in

11:22

his own relationship with his genitals. Oh

11:24

my god, that is so great. Holy

11:26

moly, You're like the better, You're

11:29

the better version of my story. The adult sex

11:31

educator version of the nightmare that my

11:33

poor high school boyfriend went through. Yeah,

11:36

ten years passed and I got two

11:38

degrees worth

11:41

of education about sexuality, so I knew

11:43

enough to explain, and like, it's

11:45

this small piece of knowledge that

11:48

can totally change how a

11:50

person thinks about their own genitals and recognizing

11:53

not just that they are normal, but why

11:56

they're normal, how

11:59

the shape of their genitals is just part

12:02

of the great panoply

12:05

a variety that is the

12:07

world of human genitalia. Speaking

12:11

of the great panoply of human genitalia.

12:14

That's our queue to take a break. And when

12:16

we get back, I want you, Emily,

12:18

to basically give us the

12:21

updated anatomy one a one lesson

12:23

the one that we never got in high school. And

12:26

particularly I want you to talk about the same

12:28

parts organized differently theory, because

12:30

it's one of those concepts that when I

12:32

very first heard it, it was like, holy

12:35

shit, how did I not know this? But

12:37

it also felt like I always knew it. I

12:40

pitty the commercial that breaks

12:43

up a conversation about penal anatomy.

12:59

All right, Emily, So we started this episode

13:02

by answering an anonymous listeners question

13:05

about someone they're sleeping with having a curved

13:08

dick, and you explained

13:10

the three hot dog taco that

13:12

is the basic anatomy of the penis, and

13:15

that it's super normal for one of those three columns

13:18

to be shorter than the other two, and

13:20

then if one is shorter, then the penis

13:22

curves towards that side, which amazing

13:25

obvious, but somehow I never knew that now.

13:28

I put this question early on in the

13:30

series because basically,

13:33

I am begging you to re educate

13:36

us about anatomy one oh one. So

13:40

can you start by explaining the

13:43

same parts organized differently theory? Yeah.

13:46

So one of the things that's valuable

13:49

about understanding where curved

13:51

penises come from is

13:54

the idea that, oh, the shaft of the penis

13:56

is not just one thing, it's these three

13:59

chambers separately. And all

14:02

human bodies are made of the same parts,

14:05

but in some cases those parts are organized

14:08

in different ways. Like on the day a

14:10

person is born, the adults around

14:12

them look at their body and based on the shape

14:14

of their genitals decide it's

14:16

a boy or it's a girl generally,

14:19

which is you can get into the

14:21

bullshit of that some other episode,

14:23

I'm sure that we will, But

14:26

that package of stuff that we identify

14:29

as being one thing or

14:31

the other is actually all the

14:33

same stuff, just organize

14:35

in a slightly different way. So

14:38

the most obvious example for me when

14:40

a baby is born is the

14:43

scrotum. So when a

14:45

human with a scrotum grows into

14:47

adulthood, they've got this stretchy

14:50

skin on the outside

14:53

of their body and hair grows on it

14:55

whether they remove it or not. Right and

14:58

on a person with an it's a girl type

15:00

of body, when that person gets to adulthood,

15:03

they've got this external body

15:05

part of stretchy skin where hair

15:07

grows on it. One is scrotum

15:09

and one is the labia.

15:12

In fact, in utero,

15:14

this tissue is called the labio scrotal

15:17

tissue because it comes from

15:19

the same basic parts in embryonic

15:22

and fetal development. In

15:24

fact, one of my favorite

15:27

things about scrotums. If you get up close

15:29

and personal with a scrotum,

15:31

you look real close and you'll see a seam running

15:33

down the center of it. It's called the scrotal raife,

15:36

and that is where the scrotum

15:38

knit together. And if things

15:40

have been a little different with the chromosomes

15:43

or the hormonal environments in the womb, then

15:47

that tissue would not have knit together

15:49

and it would have just become labia.

15:51

Truly, all the same parts, just organized

15:53

in different ways. I just want to clarify,

15:56

like you're saying that the ball sac seam,

15:58

the seam that runs down the ball sac, yes,

16:01

is the same parts

16:04

as the split

16:07

of the labia, but

16:09

just organized like it just was developed

16:11

differently based on different hormonal inputs

16:14

hormonal in the uterus, and it

16:16

was when the baby was a fetus. Wow,

16:20

Okay, why I'm so

16:22

mind blown by this and I cannot believe I was

16:25

like twenty five before I ever

16:27

knew that this was how it worked, that those

16:29

two things were the same bits, just organized

16:31

differently or developed differently because

16:34

we think of them as being so different.

16:36

But once you understand that it's all

16:38

the same parts organized in different ways, you can look

16:40

at any package of genitals and see

16:42

that it's really just all the same thing, and

16:45

that like the group of

16:47

genitals we label one way very

16:50

so much from each other, and

16:53

the group of genitals we label a different way

16:56

vary so much from each other. It

16:58

is often when I

17:00

think about and look at I have to look at pictures

17:03

of genitals on a pretty regular basis of part of my

17:05

job. Yeah, there are times

17:07

when I feel like there are more difference is within

17:09

the it's a gruel batch

17:12

of genitals. Then there are between

17:15

it's a girl and it's a boy type genitals,

17:17

Like they all vary so much from

17:19

each other. Each one is unique, like a

17:21

little snowflake, and

17:24

yet we like cluster them all together

17:26

like they're all the same. They're not the same, but

17:28

they are. They're all the same. It's all the same

17:30

parts organized in different ways. Okay,

17:33

So are you about to tell me that the clitters and the penis

17:35

are the same parts organized differently, right?

17:39

Okay, the clitterest does not have the same

17:41

functions as the penis, except

17:43

that they're both really good at pleasure. But

17:46

it's made of the same parts as the penis,

17:48

which is why it's really important that we know

17:50

that there's all these internal parts

17:53

of a penis. Right, So there's these

17:55

three chambers, two corpora cavernosa,

17:58

the cavernous bodies, and

18:00

then there's one corpus spongiosum.

18:03

The same thing is true about the clitteris.

18:06

Oh my god, The really

18:08

big difference, apart from just like size

18:11

of the clitterest, is that the only part

18:14

of the clitterest that is outside the body

18:16

is the equivalent of the head

18:19

of the penis or the glands. So if

18:21

you imagine, and like if

18:23

you again, if you're up close and personal with an

18:25

erect penis, you can press down

18:27

along the sides into the person's body

18:30

and feel how deeply the shaft goes

18:32

into the person's body. So if you just

18:34

imagine that, the whole shaft retracts

18:36

back into that person's body so

18:39

that only the head is visible. Yeah,

18:42

that's more or less what a clitterest is, the

18:44

clitteral glands, the external part. Does

18:46

that make sense? Wow? Yes,

18:49

okay, it does make sense,

18:52

And I did not realize, Like I

18:55

I've heard about the internal clitterest and

18:57

it has that sort of wishbone structure.

18:59

It has those two roots

19:02

almost that go into the body wrap

19:04

around the vagina, like I've seen that the

19:06

legs and bulbs of the vestib

19:09

Yeah. Yeah, so I've seen that image

19:11

before, and I think there was a movement a few

19:13

years ago, you know, to really educate people that,

19:15

hey, the clitteris is an entire internal

19:18

structure that is much bigger

19:20

than just the thing we see outside. Yeah,

19:23

imagine, like the change that happens

19:26

between a non erect penis

19:28

and an erect penis, how much change happens

19:30

in sort of the shape and size and presence

19:33

of a penis. All that same

19:35

change is happening inside evolva.

19:39

So when you look at that wishbone shape, the

19:41

two bulbs of the vestibule that make

19:44

the sort of wishbone shape, those are the corpora

19:46

cavernosa, those cavernous

19:49

bodies that are the same parts

19:51

as in the shaft of the penis, aka

19:53

the hot dog, just internalment. The

19:56

hot dogs make the little cars making

19:58

the inside of the penis. Got it. Sorry,

20:02

I'm literally functioning on like a fifth

20:05

grade level on the understanding of this. I

20:07

thought it was one, you know, big,

20:12

one big flesh knob. Yeah, basically I didn't

20:14

realize that there were multiple columns

20:18

and that those translated directly

20:20

to the legs of the internal

20:22

clitterus. So I want to talk to you

20:24

about something. The technical term

20:27

is anatomical homologues.

20:31

So we know what anatomy is, right. Homologue

20:34

means having the same origin.

20:38

The origin of the human body is

20:40

the development in the

20:44

beautterus sper meats

20:46

egg. We know if that happens, and

20:48

then development begins

20:51

blasticist an embryo,

20:53

yeah, eventually a fetus, and

20:56

there is this really complex cascade

20:59

of hormonal and developmental

21:01

events. But in that

21:04

embryonic blast assist early

21:07

fetal development stage, bodies

21:09

look exactly alike.

21:12

It isn't until six and a half weeks

21:14

into gestation, when there

21:16

is a wave of hormones that

21:19

anything is different. All the

21:21

prefab hardware of what

21:23

a human body is made of is

21:25

there, regardless of the chromosomes.

21:29

We know that like traditionally we

21:31

call xx is and it's a girl

21:33

type person an XY, it's a boy

21:35

type person, right, But up

21:37

until six and a half weeks, it's identical.

21:40

It's all the same parts. It's

21:42

only after that wash of hormones

21:44

that anything begins to change. So all

21:46

that same prefabricated hardware begins

21:49

to organize itself into slightly

21:52

different shapes. But

21:54

then the clitteress

21:57

and the penis do do you know the

21:59

external part of the clitteress, the part that

22:02

is visible that you can touch with your hand,

22:04

is the homologue of the head

22:07

of the penis. So imagine

22:10

that a penis gets sort of

22:12

retracted into a person's body,

22:14

and all that's visible is the head,

22:17

right, you can imagine that. It's

22:19

a little silly, but all

22:21

that internal structure, all three

22:23

of those chambers are still there.

22:25

They're just deep inside the body.

22:29

Oh my god, I wish you could see

22:31

my face right now. My hands are over my mouth,

22:33

like as if someone just exploded the

22:35

world for me. Like, basically, the

22:39

penis is a very large clitterings

22:42

or vice versa, and it's outside the

22:44

body, but in a different world with different you

22:46

know, hormonal inputs. They are the same

22:48

materials, that's what you're saying. Yeah,

22:50

I want you to imagine all the

22:53

changes that happen to a penis when

22:55

it gets erect. Like, here's this thing

22:58

outside of a person's body. It starts out

23:00

sort of squishy. You can squeeze a

23:02

really hard, you can stretch in and pull

23:04

it. As it fills with blood, it gets

23:07

firmer and it extends and

23:09

swells. Now,

23:11

imagine if that shaft is

23:13

all retracted deep into the body. All

23:16

that same swelling

23:19

and firming up, All

23:21

of that is happening inside of

23:23

a vulva, in the internal clitterus.

23:27

Yes. Wait, so if you're

23:29

listening and you're confused, I

23:31

would recommend like just

23:33

typing into Google the

23:36

words clitteris and penis,

23:38

same clitteris and penis,

23:41

same press and turbot on those

23:44

four words, and take a gander

23:46

at the Google image results. You get

23:48

image results. Oh

23:51

it's the dinosaur images. I

23:53

love these. I love these two. Why do you

23:55

call it the dinosaur images because

23:57

it looks it's like how a muppet would

24:00

be a dinosaur. Oh,

24:02

I'm glad you like these diagrams. I mean, I think

24:04

this is a really helpful image. Yeah.

24:06

It helps people to understand both

24:08

that there's way more to the clearest, but also

24:11

there is way more to the penis exactly. Yeah.

24:14

Yeah, And this science is used to help people

24:16

who transition, who either

24:18

have hormonal or surgical

24:21

interventions to change the

24:23

shape of their genitals to be more concordant

24:25

with their identity. It's

24:28

so helpful that we know this, that we have

24:30

this science, because the science means that

24:32

we have readier access to

24:34

tools to have

24:37

gender affirming medical interventions

24:40

so the people's genitals can align with

24:42

their identity. Yes, yes, yes, I'm

24:47

just absolutely gobsmacked by this information.

24:50

Like, on one hand, I it's

24:53

weirdly empowering to me. But

24:55

I'm also angry that so

24:58

many of us were taught the

25:01

biological differences, you know,

25:03

diagrams of genitals, and

25:05

we were not taught. Hey, this

25:08

is the same struck, sure, just organized

25:10

differently. Yeah. People get really

25:12

attached to the idea that there are two and

25:15

they're not the same. Yeah. Some

25:17

people are bizarrely

25:20

emotionally and politically invested, literally

25:22

invested in this idea of biological

25:25

difference. So just

25:27

gonna leave our listeners to ruminate on that,

25:29

and let's take a break. When we get

25:31

back, I think we should talk about like

25:33

stigma and myths about genital

25:36

shape and size and symmetry, all that

25:38

kind of stuff. And we're also going to talk

25:40

about that one myth that the caller brought up

25:42

about jerking it too hard, Emily.

25:57

I have been waiting all episode to say this, so I'm

25:59

just gonna say it now. And you

26:01

might not know about this because

26:03

you don't consume a lot of pop culture,

26:05

But there is an entire song by

26:08

Megan a Stallion about

26:11

curved dicks being hot. It's called

26:13

Captain Hookah. That is amazing. Wait

26:17

have you heard it? I've never heard of it. Okay,

26:19

Megan is an absolute icon right now.

26:22

And in this song Captain

26:24

Hook, she has a line where she literally

26:26

says, I like a dick with a little bit of

26:28

curve. Considering that you have

26:30

never heard this, I need to

26:33

play a clip for you. You

26:36

deserved that, a little bit of curve. Palid

26:39

pal that's amazing.

26:42

Yes, it is a watershed moment

26:44

for curved penis visibility. Couldn't

26:47

let this episode happen without mentioning No, that

26:49

is an extremely important edition. I

26:51

didn't realize that curve penises had

26:53

made it to the mainstream in so big

26:55

a way, curve penis adoration

26:58

in fact. Yeah, yeah, anyway,

27:01

So one of the things this caller, and they

27:03

didn't give their name, but one of the things they

27:05

brought up was what

27:08

could have caused this curve?

27:10

And actually,

27:12

I'm just going to play the clip because it's

27:15

gold. Is there a reason for it?

27:17

Is it because he's like jerking it too hard to

27:19

one side or like so

27:22

could occur in a penis

27:25

be caused by someone

27:27

jerking it too hard or

27:30

jerking it too hard to one side? Quote

27:33

unquote yeah definitely not I

27:36

want it, but it's a thing

27:38

I run into, like I've been asked that before. That

27:41

is the thing people are worried about when their penis

27:43

is vary from their expectations of

27:45

what a penis is supposed to be. They worry

27:47

that they made it happen by masturbating.

27:50

And that's often because they started

27:52

masturbating and really paying close attention to

27:54

their penis at about

27:57

the same time that their

27:59

penis hits puberty

28:01

and starts to look the way it's going to look,

28:04

and so they think that it look. Correlation

28:06

is not causation. Just because two things happen

28:08

at the same time doesn't mean that one

28:11

caused the other. You're masturbating

28:14

in the same direction as your penis because

28:16

that's how it's comfortable and pleasurable to masturbate.

28:19

But the curve was there before you ever started

28:21

masturbate. But the

28:24

myth of the idea that

28:26

you could masturbate too hard or

28:28

too much and it can permanently damage

28:32

the hardware is like a pretty

28:34

pervasive myth. Like you know, I'm assist woman,

28:37

I have a cliter is. I had the

28:39

cultural imagery that like I could

28:41

damage it forever, I could burn it off, Like I

28:44

was probably fourteen or fifteen, and

28:46

I saw an episode of Sex in the City

28:49

where Samantha is shopping for a vibrator

28:52

and another woman who's shopping next to her

28:54

points at one of them and says, Oh,

28:56

don't buy that one because it'll burn your clitteress

28:59

off. And I

29:03

after I saw that episode, I probably

29:05

spent four

29:08

years having a fear that I could

29:11

burn my clitteress off, like

29:14

literally cauterize

29:16

your clarteres. Yes exactly, Oh, I

29:19

know, and now

29:21

I know better. But like, and probably all

29:23

the meant is that it overheats, yeah,

29:25

or that it gets like really intense.

29:29

But I do think there's like a lot of cultural

29:31

messaging that masturbation is bad and if

29:33

you do it too much or too hard, you're going

29:35

to damage your business

29:37

forever, and that's gonna be it. Yeah,

29:40

And the only thing that's true is, like, again,

29:43

if you experience pain, that might

29:45

be a sign that something has

29:47

gone sideways. And I don't

29:49

mean that in the penis pointing direction. I mean

29:52

that, like, you may have injured yourself

29:54

if something hurts, but otherwise,

29:57

if it doesn't hurt, you are fine.

29:59

If you experience numbness, that's temporary,

30:02

in the same way that like if you fall

30:04

asleep on your foot and

30:07

it gets numb and tingly. Does

30:09

your foot stay that way forever? No, If

30:12

your foot stayed that way forever, you would tell me right,

30:15

because that's not the way it was yet there'd

30:18

be something wrong if it stayed that way forever. But it doesn't.

30:20

It's just very temporary. I

30:23

think the worst thing masturbating can do is

30:26

teach you to get to orgasm

30:29

so efficiently that when you

30:32

are having any sort

30:34

of sexual connection with another person, your

30:37

body only knows how to get to orgasm really

30:39

efficiently, as opposed to like

30:41

taking your time and engaging with your partner.

30:44

So really, what I recommend is masturbating

30:47

in a greater variety of ways and really

30:49

taking your time and enjoying it.

30:53

That is really really good advice.

30:55

I want to bring up one more thing from the listeners call.

30:58

They said that their partner's penis quote

31:01

gets the job done. Like,

31:03

no judgment on the person who's

31:05

using this language. This is the language we are taught

31:08

as a culture to use about penises,

31:11

to see them as strong and hard

31:14

and like they

31:16

can last forever and they're never

31:18

weak. It's absolutely

31:21

a metaphor for masculinity

31:24

itself. This trap of

31:26

masculinity. I

31:28

am just realizing right now that we

31:32

like culturally apply the words

31:34

hand job and blowjob pretty

31:37

much exclusively to penises, Like we never

31:40

talk about clitoral stimulation as a hand job

31:42

or kind of lingus as a blowjob.

31:45

That's true. Listeners should

31:47

let us know if that's not true in their experience. I

31:49

had this revelation when I was actually looking at

31:52

a Instagram post and somebody used

31:54

the phrase thigh job, like in the

31:56

queer context of like when you're pressing your

31:58

thigh against someone's volva

32:00

basically yeah, And when I when I

32:03

heard the word thigh job, I was like, I love that phrase.

32:05

Number one and two. I have never heard job

32:09

blank, job be applied to anything related

32:11

to the clitterists or the bulba.

32:13

Yeah. So, but when the color says

32:15

it gets the job done, I assume they mean it's

32:18

pleasurable to them in penetrative

32:20

sex and it doesn't hurt. But

32:23

that's really what I want to know as well, Like this callor

32:25

is calling in from their perspective having sex with this

32:27

person with the scurved penis, Like is

32:30

it pleasurable? That's so interesting

32:32

because what I assumed and like, our

32:34

assumptions are always just our assumptions.

32:36

But my assumption was I

32:39

have orgasms from penetration. My

32:42

assumption was it gets hard and we're able to have penetrative

32:45

sex. M. That is

32:47

a much more pessimistic

32:50

interpretation, but I think you could be

32:52

right. Yeah. I hope listeners

32:54

will comment with their

32:56

opinions of what counts as like it

32:59

gets the job done. Is it just penetration

33:01

pain free or is it orgasm

33:04

from fashional stimulation? Okay,

33:06

so, Emily, I feel like we have covered a lot

33:09

lot of ground in this episode, and we started

33:11

out talking about a crooked penis,

33:14

but we have also now covered the

33:16

internal genital structures and

33:19

how all genitals are the same parts,

33:21

just organized differently. Also,

33:24

I learned the word homologues. So

33:28

can you just recap it all for me?

33:30

Please? I would love

33:32

to you. That's a great idea. So we'll

33:35

start with the answer to the actual question,

33:37

which is yes, bendy or curvy

33:40

penises normal.

33:43

And the reason they're normal is that a penis is

33:45

made of these three chambers or

33:47

like columns, and

33:49

it's very common for one

33:52

of those columns to be slightly

33:54

shorter than the other. Two, and if that happens,

33:56

and the penis will bend to one side.

33:59

But again, it is not a sign that you've

34:01

done anything wrong. It's not anything

34:03

you've caused or anything you could

34:06

cause. It's just the way some penises

34:08

are built. And as long as it's not causing

34:10

you any pain, it's perfect.

34:13

So that's first. Second,

34:17

onto those genital structures for simplicity.

34:19

Right now, I'm going to focus on the clitteress and the

34:22

penis. In the first

34:24

few weeks of embryonic

34:26

development, all of us have the same

34:28

basic hardware. It's around

34:30

week six that the embryo

34:33

receives a hormonal signal and

34:35

that hardware begins to

34:37

take a certain shape that when that person

34:39

is born we would label that shape it's

34:41

a girl or it's a boy. We

34:44

all start out with the same parts,

34:46

they just get organized differently.

34:49

So the penis and the clitteress are

34:52

homologues. They have the same

34:54

origin. They are made

34:56

of the same material. Third,

34:59

to get a little more specific, the legs

35:02

and the bulbs of the internal clitterests

35:04

are the same as the parts of those

35:07

three chambers in the penis. The

35:09

head of the clitterests is the same

35:12

as the head of the penis. It just developed

35:14

a little differently, responding to the hormones

35:17

based on this body's chromosomes

35:20

and other aspects of their environment in utero.

35:22

And just like the penis, the clitterests,

35:25

including all of its internal parts,

35:27

gets erect and swells

35:30

when you're aroused, which I

35:32

just love me too, array

35:37

for clitteral arousal. So

35:39

basically, the way many of us are taught about genitals

35:42

and sex ed is this

35:44

tiny fragment of

35:46

the full picture, and the

35:48

reality is so

35:51

much less binary than

35:53

what we're taught. Every set

35:55

of genitals is unique, just like every person's

35:57

sexual orientation and gender identity and

36:00

desires are all unique.

36:02

People vary and they

36:05

change, and all

36:07

of that is normal, which

36:09

leads us to fourth and

36:12

most important. The reality

36:14

of our genitals is not

36:17

what we were shown, either in our textbooks

36:20

or in porn. It is much more

36:22

asymmetrical and beautiful

36:25

and curvy and delightful

36:28

and enticing and all

36:30

the way down the alphabet. I

36:32

don't have to know what your genitals look

36:34

like to know that they are already

36:37

perfect just as they are.

36:40

This is the difference between ladies sitting around

36:43

at brunch talking about their experiences and having

36:45

a professional sex education. Yes, exactly.

36:47

It's the difference between your experience in

36:50

high school with a boy with a crooked

36:52

penis and my experience in grad school

36:54

with a boy with a crooked penis. Rock

36:56

and be like, here's exactly why this is

36:58

normal and can actually

37:00

be an assets night and day.

37:03

Turns out, information can

37:05

make all the difference. Yep. Confidence

37:08

comes from knowing what is true. I

37:10

mean, this is what I always say. My job is to teach people

37:12

to live with confidence and enjoying their bodies. And confidence

37:15

is knowing what is true. And joy

37:18

is loving what is true, and

37:21

joy is the hard part. Do

37:25

you have advice for the caller or the

37:27

caller's partner, advice

37:29

for doing that very hard part? Like

37:31

finding joy in your body as

37:34

it exists right now. We've all

37:36

been trained from really early on

37:38

to have an idea about what is right

37:40

and what is wrong about sexuality, including

37:43

the shape and size of our

37:45

body parts, all of

37:48

our body parts. Just because

37:50

it's normal doesn't mean it's acceptable.

37:53

Really, we have to change

37:55

our opinion, and that means

37:57

going against every message

38:00

we have received from really

38:02

early on in our lives. Reinforced

38:05

through our formal education, our

38:07

moral education, our interactions

38:10

with medical practitioners. It

38:13

has been reinforced that there is a right body

38:15

and a wrong body. And it

38:17

takes a leap to decide

38:19

that your body, whatever it is,

38:22

is already perfect and

38:24

beautiful and fully lovable

38:27

and deserving of pleasure. That's

38:29

a choice that people need

38:31

to make. And yeah, there's a cost that comes with that

38:33

kind of choice, because other people

38:36

will judge you for being willing

38:38

to accept and welcome your

38:40

body precisely as it is. But it's

38:43

a daily practice of taking a

38:45

tonic to strengthen your

38:47

immunity against those poisonous

38:50

messages like

38:52

what's do you have a tonic that you take? What

38:56

do you mean? Oh?

38:58

Yeah, so the literal tonic here

39:01

is. Suppose a person with a curved

39:04

penis who has had complicated feelings about

39:06

their curved penis. Every day, just

39:08

for three minutes, you

39:11

think about, you visualize,

39:14

or you look at your penis, and

39:17

you send your penis loving supportive

39:20

messages about like you are perfect exactly

39:22

the way you are. You are a normal variation

39:24

on the way human beings bodies look, and

39:28

you can be an asset and a gift. You're

39:31

capable of experiencing enormous pleasure.

39:34

You're capable of providing

39:36

pleasure to your partners. You

39:38

are a gorgeous,

39:41

beautiful toy in

39:43

the play that is erotic

39:46

connection. When I

39:48

hear you talking about it, like I feel

39:50

it radiating from you in a way

39:52

that I know this sounds really woo

39:54

woo, but like it

39:58

feels like once someone has made that shift

40:01

where they're unconditionally loving their body

40:03

as it is right now, Like

40:06

everyone who they interact with everyone

40:09

and can feel that shift, Like

40:11

everyone knows that there's

40:13

someone who loves their body instead of someone

40:16

who is hiding or hating

40:18

their body. Yeah,

40:20

that confidence and that acceptance.

40:24

Your partner can feel that, and it helps

40:26

them to experience

40:29

your body with your confidence and your

40:31

acceptance. Like, Nope, this is just normal.

40:33

Any feelings you have about the fact that this might

40:36

not be normal, that's you. And

40:38

like, here is this body right

40:41

in front of you, ready to be sexy

40:44

with you, and you

40:46

can either judge it or you can

40:48

be sexy with this body.

40:51

What do you think it

40:56

works? Knowledge and self

40:59

love totally

41:01

improve your sex life, and it helps

41:03

other people improve their sex lives.

41:06

Because if they can see

41:08

you loving your body exactly

41:10

as it is, it opens the question of like, but

41:14

could I love my body exactly

41:17

as it is? If

41:27

there's someone who has moved through

41:29

this process, who has genitals that don't

41:32

conform to like the porn ideal,

41:35

and you've made your way to a place

41:37

of really loving the shape

41:39

of your genitals, let us know how

41:41

you did that. Not

41:43

every call has to be a question. I would love to hear

41:45

the process that people have been through in

41:48

order to get there, because every story like

41:50

that is going to help other people who are at the beginning

41:52

of that journey. Call

41:54

and tell us about it. The phone number is six

41:57

four six three nine seven

41:59

eight five five seven, or you can

42:01

send a voice memo on email to

42:04

Emily at Pushkin dot Fm.

42:08

Next week we have a question from a listener about

42:10

desire and if you're

42:13

feeling like I wanna want my partner

42:15

or I wanna want sex, but I'm just I

42:17

don't know, I'm not really in the mood. This

42:20

Responsive Desire episode has

42:22

been made specifically for

42:25

you. Come

42:30

as You Are is a production of Pushkin Industries

42:32

and Madison Wells. It's hosted by

42:34

Emily Nagosky. You can find Emily

42:37

on Instagram at e Nagowski

42:39

and on Twitter at Emily Nagowski.

42:42

You can also sign up for her newsletter at

42:44

Emily Nagosky dot com, where

42:46

she writes about everything from the clitteriest

42:49

in your mind to orgasm after

42:51

having hysterected me. It's an incredible newsletter.

42:53

Highly recommended. This show is

42:56

co hosted and lead produced by me Mola

42:58

Board. You can find me online at

43:01

Mola Board and on TikTok at

43:03

podcast dot slut Sorry

43:05

mom. My. Co producer on this show

43:08

is the fabulous Britney Brown. Our

43:10

editor is Kate Parkinson Morgan. Sound

43:13

design and mix by Anne Pope. Executive

43:15

producers are Mia LaBelle and Leetal

43:18

Mallad at Pushkin. Thanks

43:20

to Heather Fane, Carl Migliori,

43:23

Sophie Crane, Courtney Guarino,

43:25

Jason Gambrel, Julia Barton,

43:28

John Schnars, and Jacob Weisberg at

43:31

Madison Wells. Thanks to Kylie Williams,

43:33

Elizabeth Goodstein and Gg Pritzker.

43:36

Additional thanks to Rich Stevens,

43:39

Lindsay Edgecombe, Frolick Media,

43:42

and Peter Acker at Armadillo

43:45

Audio Group. Original music

43:47

for this series was composed by Amelia

43:49

Nagoski and arranged and recorded

43:51

by Alexandra Kalinovsky. Additional

43:55

music from Epidemic Sound. You

43:57

can find Pushkin on all social

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