0:00

Committed is a production of I Heart Radio. On

0:07

the surface, Laura and her husband had a familiar

0:09

love story. Boy

0:11

meets girl in college at marching

0:14

band practice. Actually, they

0:16

bonded over a love of weird al Yankovic,

0:18

started dating, fell in love, eventually

0:22

got married and had four sons. But

0:25

Laura's husband had been keeping a secret that entire

0:28

time, seeing

0:30

Laura's husband was born a man, but always

0:32

felt like something else. I

0:35

always felt like a woman lying

0:38

to Laura, living that lie.

0:41

It took a toll. I

0:43

almost made some really bad decisions,

0:47

and I had actually developed a plan

0:50

where instead of addressing

0:52

the issues I would in my life,

0:57

I had a plan to basically

1:00

the hike into the Grand Canyon and

1:02

not hike out. That

1:05

voice that's Laura's

1:08

husband today, a

1:10

totally different person from the one who walked into

1:12

the Grand Canyon with plans to not walk out,

1:15

because that day changed everything. That

1:19

was the day Laura's husband made the decision to finally

1:21

transition to become

1:23

a woman named Samantha.

1:28

I'm Joe Piazza. This is

1:31

Committed. This

1:59

is Laura in Samantha's Love Story. It's

2:02

been a little over two years since Laura's husband

2:04

began to transition in a woman named Samantha.

2:07

Samantha now goes by the pronouns she and

2:09

her and their memories

2:12

together, memories that go back fifteen years.

2:14

Both Laura and Samantha refer to Samantha by

2:16

those pronouns even before her transition.

2:19

Samantha has always been a woman, even

2:22

when she was in the body of a man. So,

2:25

like I said, they met in

2:27

marching band practice.

2:35

I remember meeting you. Okay, well,

2:37

then I guess you should start. It

2:39

was two thousand three at the University of Arizona.

2:42

It was the end of the summer and band rehearsals had

2:44

just started. This is Samantha

2:47

and there was a new trumpet

2:49

player that I didn't know. It

2:51

was her first year marching and

2:53

she I could still see her. Actually, she was sitting

2:55

over there on her trumpe case. Remember

2:59

the blue sports bra, Yes,

3:04

blue sports bra broakatch

3:06

shorts and a big floppy hat. And I'm

3:08

going over and introducing myself to her. One

3:11

day, they ended up alone in Laura's car together. When

3:14

we got into my car, there was music plane

3:17

and she instantly said, is that MacArthur

3:19

Park? And I was very embarrassed, and I turned the volume

3:21

down quickly and I said, no, it's

3:23

Jurassic Park by weird Al, and

3:25

she's like, oh, I love weird Al, and so then

3:28

she serenaded me with weird Al songs and

3:30

it was an instant hit. I tried to find

3:32

ways to hang out with you, so after those rehearsals,

3:34

try to grab you for dinner, and I spend

3:37

as much time with you as possible. My parents

3:39

came out to visit, and she wrote along

3:41

with me to pick them up, and I think that was when

3:43

we hugged good night. That was a little bit lingering

3:46

hug and a lingering glance.

3:48

It's like, oh, maybe there's something happening

3:50

here. It was. They

3:54

did it for a little over a year before things got

3:57

really serious. About

3:59

six months before she actually proposed was

4:01

when we went ring shopping together and

4:04

I knew that she'd bought the ring, but

4:06

I didn't know where she was hiding it in our apartment,

4:08

but I didn't go snooping because I didn't want to find

4:10

it. Then

4:13

one day they went for a hike at Patagonia Lake

4:15

State Park. Laura didn't

4:17

want to get her hopes up or anything I

4:20

thought for sure that it wasn't happening

4:22

because she's just wearing a T shirt and jeans. I'm like, there's

4:24

nowhere she'd be hiding a ringbox, you know, i'd be

4:26

able to see it. And so

4:28

then all of a sudden, she pulls

4:31

out of her pocket a ring wrapped up

4:33

in cotton and

4:36

tissues and tape, and

4:39

bowls it out and proposes right

4:41

there on the trail and one of our favorite spots,

4:43

by a really beautiful tree. And

4:45

of course I said, yes. They

4:50

were still in college, that's young.

4:52

But they promised their parents, did graduate, get

4:54

jobs, do all the big important things that parents

4:57

want you to do. Then

4:59

they planned to tie the not in Tucson in two thousand

5:01

and six. It was a beautiful

5:03

ceremony. It was I can't

5:05

remember much about what was being said by other

5:07

people, but I remember looking at you same

5:11

and being happy, smiling

5:13

a lot. My face hurt. It

5:16

was a heck of a party too, though it was. Everyone

5:19

was drunk except for us. We

5:21

didn't really drink at all. We toasted,

5:23

that was about it, and everybody

5:25

else was drunk. But it was

5:27

a great night. That

5:30

was twelve years ago, soon

5:32

after the wedding, they had their first son, followed

5:35

by three more and during

5:37

all of this time, Samantha knew that she wanted to

5:39

be with Laura, that she loved Laura more

5:41

than anyone in the entire world,

5:45

but she didn't love herself. Let's

5:47

back up a little and talk about that. The

5:51

reality is, these

5:54

feelings of being at unease and my body

5:56

go back a long, long time. And I

5:58

can remember being very young, four or five

6:00

years old, and already

6:03

at that point in time, knowing

6:05

that something wasn't right, that

6:09

I should have been born as a girl. And

6:11

I can remember going to bed at night as

6:13

a young child. I can remember just closing my eyes

6:16

and just wishing, wishing that I would wake up as

6:18

a girl. And

6:22

those feelings followed

6:24

me through my life. Growing

6:28

up in the late nineties, there wasn't a whole lot of information

6:31

out there about being transgender. Samantha

6:33

didn't even learn about what transgender meant until

6:36

she was thirteen, and even

6:38

then, it was a very negative connotation

6:40

around it, which is daytime

6:42

television and things like that. It seemed

6:44

like transgender individuals were being presented in the

6:46

media as people who are trying to deceive people

6:49

as people try to lie to people, and

6:52

I didn't feel like that was me. I didn't want to lie

6:54

to anybody. I didn't want to deceive anybody. I

6:57

just wanted to be who I was. But

7:00

Laura had no idea, No

7:02

one did. There were no hints,

7:06

there were no real

7:09

signs. There

7:12

was one moment before the wedding

7:15

where I actually called

7:18

it off, and

7:22

a big part of that was trying to come to

7:24

terms with these feelings

7:26

and these emotions, and

7:29

Lord didn't know why. I just came to her and said

7:31

I needed time and space. And

7:34

I assumed at that time that she was

7:36

just struggling with the concept of marriage because

7:39

she's from a

7:41

divorced family, so I just assumed

7:43

it was wrapped up in that, but

7:45

in reality, it was struggling with

7:47

who I was, because I

7:50

knew that if I went forward once

7:52

and for all, this would have to be put away. I'd have to

7:54

be her husband, and

7:57

not that that's a negative thing, but that

7:59

would be my path in life. And

8:03

I came back to her and said I

8:06

want you, and you want me, and I want

8:08

this, and then the wedding

8:10

was back on and I

8:12

was just so stressed. I didn't really question it. I was just

8:14

like, Okay, we're back on, let's go. So

8:18

I kind of didn't really want to know exactly

8:21

why that had happened,

8:23

but I didn't feel like it had anything to do with me. I

8:26

could tell it was something outside of

8:28

me. Samitthan

8:30

wanted to be with Laura. It was

8:32

the idea of being a husband that absolutely

8:34

terrified her. You know, I I

8:36

have adore Laura, I love her with all my heart,

8:39

and I wanted her, and

8:42

I wanted her more than I

8:44

wanted to deal with this issue that I had been facing.

8:48

So when I made that decision to go forward the

8:50

wedding, I was choosing her over me, at

8:53

least that side of me, and I

8:55

thought I could beat it. I thought I could continue

8:57

to push it down and not

8:59

let it consume my thoughts. And

9:02

for a while I was successful, and our

9:04

entire relationship, the depression was up

9:06

and down. It would come, it would go, it would

9:08

come for a while and stay, it would go for a

9:10

long time and stay away. I never

9:12

really knew why, so

9:14

I just tried to be supportive and any

9:17

way that I could as she was dealing with

9:19

it. But I never really understood the reasons behind

9:21

it, and it turns out that that depression

9:24

that Laura saw was me struggling

9:26

with gender dysphoria, which, for

9:28

those who don't know, is that unease that

9:31

some transgender people feel being in

9:33

the wrong body. It's like

9:36

being forced to write with your left hand when you're

9:38

right handed, or being dropped off into

9:40

foreign country and expected to speak another language.

9:44

That incongruency between who

9:46

I wasn't the inside and who I wasn't the outside was

9:49

destroying me. Those

9:51

dysphoric episodes kept growing, they

9:54

got longer and more consuming. Samantha

9:57

basically lost all of to

9:59

it almost the entire

10:01

year. I was just a complete waste

10:03

of humanity. I was so consumed, I

10:05

was so sad, I could barely

10:08

get up. I was afraid I was gonna lose my job, and

10:11

I was a very horror

10:14

spouse and parents because

10:16

I was just so sad.

10:21

I couldn't just put this a way anymore. It wasn't an option,

10:24

but I was so afraid, and I knew

10:26

that by coming to terms with all this,

10:29

I could lose everything. And

10:33

I was so scared, and

10:37

in that moment I

10:39

almost made some really bad decisions,

10:43

and I had actually developed a plan

10:45

where instead

10:48

of addressing the issues I would

10:51

in my life, we're

11:00

gonna take a quick break. Here, be

11:03

right back. Samantha

11:16

couldn't take it anymore. I couldn't

11:18

take the stress of living a lie and living in a body

11:20

that didn't feel like our own. She

11:23

planned her death meticulously. They

11:27

had this group of friends who regularly hiked in the

11:29

Grand Canyon. I

11:31

knew that it would provide me the opportunity that

11:34

I needed to in

11:37

my life. I

11:39

had this plan where it would look like an accident. I

11:41

would just go into the Colorado River and not

11:44

come out. Their

11:46

friends planned to hike the canyon rim to rim.

11:49

Samantha told them she wasn't up for the whole hike. She

11:52

said. She joined them for the hike down and then break

11:54

away from the group and hike down to the river. Once

11:58

she was there, she knew she'd have the privacy to ender

12:00

life. The

12:02

idea was simple enough, but

12:05

at the last minute, there was a small, seemingly

12:07

insignificant change in the plants. At

12:10

the last minute, one of our friends brought his wife,

12:14

and their spouse wasn't in shape enough

12:16

to do that full hike, and they asked could

12:18

they join me on my hike, and

12:21

we talked about a lot of things

12:24

in life and some

12:26

of the struggles that I faced and struggles that

12:28

they faced, and it's sort

12:30

of opened my eyes to the situation.

12:33

You know. It's when

12:37

they bring in the hostage negotiator to talk someone

12:39

off the ledge. They

12:41

never talked to him about the ledge. They

12:43

talked to them about their life, and

12:46

this person doesn't even realize what they did for

12:48

me. I don't know if they realized

12:50

it today. I've never told them,

12:52

But what it came to was, by the time I

12:54

finally got to the river, it just

12:57

didn't feel right. I

13:00

I couldn't go through with it. I

13:04

came out of that canyon a different person than

13:06

when I went in, or maybe it was the person

13:08

I was always supposed to be. And

13:11

that was basically the beginning of the end. I knew

13:13

that at that moment that I

13:15

would have to tell Laura.

13:18

I knew I wanted to live, and the reality

13:20

is I never wanted to die. That wasn't

13:23

my desire. I didn't want to die. I just

13:25

didn't want to burden other people with this. But

13:29

I was reminded in that conversation just

13:32

how important we all are to each other and

13:34

how important I was to her and to my children and

13:36

my family and friends. So

13:39

after the canyon I came home, I

13:42

shaved my beard and

13:45

started to open up. Samantha

13:48

told Laura that she wanted to see a therapist.

13:51

She did some research and gave her wife a list

13:53

of potential doctors. She

13:55

gave me three names, and so

13:58

I googled all three of them, and not in their

14:00

list of expertise, all three of them listed LGBT,

14:03

and so my first thought was, No,

14:07

that just has to be a coincidence. That

14:10

can't be what's going on. Then

14:12

I started mildly panicking, and

14:15

I googled looking for a quiz

14:17

for is my husband transgender, which I'm

14:19

here to tell you is not a very helpful Google

14:22

search. Um, they don't

14:24

really have quizzes for that. And

14:27

so I was just kind of thinking to myself,

14:29

like, this is kind of like you don't you

14:31

don't ask a lady if she's pregnant, Like this isn't

14:33

a question you can ask someone and be wrong, you

14:36

know what I mean. And

14:39

also just you know, panicking and trying

14:41

to re examine every interaction we've ever had

14:43

over the previous at that point fourteen

14:46

years, fifteen years, and

14:48

so I was trying to figure out if

14:50

this could possibly be it. Eventually

14:55

Laura had to say something. I

14:57

said, Okay, I have to ask you this, and

15:00

I just knew that I was gonna be wrong, and then she was gonna

15:02

get insulted and even more hurt and upset.

15:05

I said, Okay, I feel really weird asking

15:07

you this, but I have to ask it, I

15:09

said. I googled all of the therapists and

15:11

she's just looking straight ahead. She won't even look at

15:14

me. She's like, uh huh,

15:16

Like I noticed they all have something in common. Uh

15:19

huh. So they

15:21

all listed LGBT. Uh

15:24

huh. I said, so, do you

15:26

think you could have a gender issue? She

15:29

said maybe so. Then

15:31

my reaction in that moment was, don't

15:34

freak out, don't panic, have

15:36

the right reaction, be supportive,

15:40

try to have a conversation here and figure out what

15:42

this all means. And

15:44

I think that I was probably eerily calm if

15:46

anything, that evening, but internally

15:49

I was completely freaking out. I

15:51

remember my heart was raising out of my chest.

15:54

My face kept doing this weird twitching thing.

15:57

It was I think, just shock,

16:01

and so we were going to go out to dinner, but we ended

16:03

up getting in and out and sitting in the car and eating

16:05

burgers in the car instead and talking as

16:08

long as we could. And then from that point

16:10

it started just a series of serious

16:13

conversations where I tried to

16:15

understand how long she'd been feeling this way,

16:17

if she'd ever tried dressing up or

16:20

experimented with anything like that before

16:22

transitioning. I never tried on

16:24

women's clothing or anything like that. I was too afraid

16:27

to do it. I know a lot of people who do transition

16:30

try that beforehand, but I

16:32

mean literally, I had not tried anything

16:34

on at that point, so

16:36

it was brand new to me. I had no

16:38

idea where to even begin. Laura

16:45

had so many questions what

16:48

this meant for our relationship, our

16:50

marriage, if she was still attracted

16:52

to me, um, you know, the list

16:54

goes on and on, and just these endless

16:56

conversations to try to figure out where we

16:58

were both at with everything. And

17:00

honestly, in the first

17:03

week or so, I kind of

17:05

found myself thinking, Okay, so I guess I'm going

17:07

to be a single mom now, and what does that

17:09

look like, I got four young kids

17:12

and I have special needs, and how is that going

17:14

to play out for me in my future? But

17:18

Laura finally came to the conclusion that she didn't

17:20

want to be a single mom.

17:22

She didn't want to lose her husband. And

17:24

so in that moment, I thought, Okay, I'm gonna give all

17:27

this a year and just see how I feel

17:29

after a year, because I can't predict

17:31

how this is going to go. I mean, at that time, I

17:33

literally could not picture her

17:36

as a woman whatsoever. So

17:38

I told her, I can't promise

17:41

how I'm going to feel as each day progresses,

17:43

but right now I want to try to stay and figure

17:45

this out with you. So

17:48

that was all in the first probably two

17:51

weeks for

17:53

me. The floodgates just sort of opened

17:55

from repressing all of

17:58

this for for so long. And

18:00

I just remember, for those first couple of months, was the first

18:02

three months or so, every night we'd get the

18:04

kids to bed and we just start talking, and

18:06

we talked until midnight, a lot o'clock in

18:08

the morning every night to start

18:11

working through some of what I was feeling

18:14

and how she was feeling, and

18:17

what does this mean? How are moving forward? And

18:20

The funny thing is it's almost like we were

18:22

dating again, those long

18:25

late night conversations, and

18:27

in a way, we kind of were, because

18:31

our entire relationship had been called the question.

18:35

And I think we've been pretty clear with each other from the beginning

18:37

that, you know, we only wanted to be here if

18:40

we both wanted to be here. We

18:42

had that conversation on multiple times where if

18:44

either of us weren't happy, we kind of reserved

18:47

the right that we could walk away, no

18:49

hard feelings. And she told me from the

18:51

beginning that she wouldn't blame me for going.

18:54

She would completely understand. She said, no

18:56

one would blame me for going, So it wasn't what I signed

18:58

up for. I didn't have all the information when

19:00

we got married, and that's all true. I

19:04

do believe, in my heart of hearts that

19:06

she didn't enter into our marriage

19:08

willingly intending to deceive me. I

19:10

think that she really thought she could

19:13

just control it and push it away.

19:16

That is something that does still hurt, the fact

19:18

that I was kept in the dark for so long. I'm

19:20

not going to sit here and pretend like it's not. And

19:23

not all spouses do stay, and

19:25

not all spouses should stay and

19:28

that's okay. Yeah, I think we really

19:30

had to build our relationship almost from the

19:32

ground up. Again. I mean, even while everything

19:34

else was absolute chaos in my life,

19:37

just not having to carry that around was

19:39

unbelievably freeing, even if it was just Laura that

19:41

knew at the time that

19:44

was my only secret, and

19:46

being able to finally tell her was a was

19:48

a huge relief. And I wish I could have told

19:50

her when we first started dating. I wish I could have told her before

19:53

we got married that this was something I was

19:55

dealing with. And I

19:58

don't know what would have happened if I told you then. I

20:00

mean, there's no way of knowing. It's

20:05

important to note here that gender and sexuality

20:07

are not the same thing. Samantha

20:10

was ready to transition into a woman, but her attraction

20:12

to women wouldn't change. She

20:15

was still very attracted to her wife. My

20:18

attractions had always been towards

20:21

other women, and I

20:23

knew that in transition, that's

20:25

still what I wanted as far as

20:28

I was concerned. Even though I had

20:30

come out to Laura through that conversation, I

20:33

was afraid that she would leave. But the reality

20:35

is, she's still the only person I wanted

20:37

in the world, But what

20:39

did Laura want? How did

20:42

Laura's sexuality come into play in this? Laura

20:45

had always been attracted to men, and she

20:47

married a man. I was curious

20:49

about how she felt about being married to a woman and

20:52

being intimate with a woman. That's

20:55

a difficult question to answer quickly. Initially,

20:58

it was hard to picture and

21:01

imagine what it would be like. But

21:03

as her transition progressed, I

21:05

never found myself not

21:07

attracted to her, which caused

21:10

me to be introspective

21:12

within myself and kind of examined

21:14

my own sexuality, and

21:17

I came to identify as pan sexual,

21:19

which means that you are attracted

21:22

to people regardless of their gender, And

21:25

that just seemed to fit because I

21:27

knew that I still loved her and wanted to

21:29

be with her and was attracted to her in that way.

21:32

But if something were ever to happen

21:34

to the two of us, I wouldn't first see myself

21:37

seeking out dating women. So

21:39

I think it's kind of situational, if that makes

21:42

sense. I've actually used the phrase that I'm Samantha

21:44

sexual because I'm

21:46

specifically attracted to

21:49

and built for her, and

21:51

I've always felt that way, not

21:54

carrying around her secret anymore changed Samantha.

21:58

Yes, in obvious ways, but in some not

22:00

so obvious ways to after

22:02

coming out, I felt amazing

22:05

because you have to carry a secret like

22:07

that for so long in your life, was

22:09

unbelievably freeing, even if it was just Laura that

22:12

knew at the time. As you've seen in her

22:14

very public Instagram posts, she's

22:17

outgoing and she's a social butterfly. She

22:19

was never like that before. She was basically

22:22

a hermit. She would hang out with friends

22:24

maybe once or twice a year, never

22:26

posted on social media maybe five or

22:28

six times in a year, never took pictures,

22:31

never selfies. I was her only

22:33

friend. And so when we encounter

22:35

people that we meet post transition, they

22:39

tell me I seem like the introverted one, and

22:41

I'm just kind of like, wait, what, because

22:43

I still don't even see her that way, just because that's

22:46

never been our roles. But I mean it's true now

22:48

she is definitely the more

22:50

outgoing and social one, and

22:52

so that's still been a relearning

22:55

process for us. It's

22:57

kind of like being married to a brand new person after all

22:59

these years. In a lot of ways, I was

23:01

really stunted before in my life

23:04

and in my role as a spouse and parents.

23:06

Being able to be myself

23:09

has allowed me to hope up in ways that I could

23:11

never have expected. Just how

23:13

much more outgoing I am and involved.

23:16

It goes beyond just being outgoing in the world.

23:18

It's it's also in the house and being

23:20

more involved as a parent, and being more involved

23:23

as a as a spouse, and being

23:25

more engaged with the kids, more emotionally available,

23:28

And that's been a really beautiful experience

23:30

for me. We're

23:32

going to take a quick break here. When

23:35

we get back, we'll start Samantha's transition.

23:46

M M. It was November

23:50

when Samantha told Laura about her plan to transition

23:52

to being a woman. Finally

23:54

coming to terms with being transgender

23:56

and saying it out loud for the first time

23:58

ever feels like such

24:00

an accomplishment. You feel like you finally got to the

24:03

top of the mountain, right, You're finally there, and

24:06

then you realize that you actually need to move

24:08

forward, and that's such a

24:10

taunting task. Early

24:13

on, they sat down together and came up with a proposed

24:15

timeline for the transition, and

24:18

then we might as well set it on fire and thrown it out a

24:20

window because we didn't really stick to it. But it

24:23

was nice for me, being so overwhelmed

24:25

to just see a black and white list of

24:27

this is what I'm expecting to do and

24:30

in which order and approximately when,

24:33

and it helped me kind of wrap my head around it a little

24:35

bit too. And I'm a

24:37

planner anyway in general. I like to know what's

24:40

the plan, what's the plan, so that

24:42

helped me know where things were

24:44

headed. It's tough to plan a transition

24:46

out on paper up front. It's a very

24:49

fluid process. It's something that changes

24:51

on a day to day basis, and I

24:53

think you do have to live it day to day. It's nice to have

24:55

kind of a general idea of when things are going to happen.

24:57

But it happened a lot faster than original

25:00

only planned. I think she's had

25:02

the fastest transition of anyone I've ever encountered.

25:05

I went pretty quick, yeah, to

25:07

mark just how quick it all was. Samantha's

25:09

instagram is actually called Suddenly Samantha.

25:13

She looks so different now. I've

25:15

spent hours looking at her before and after pictures.

25:19

The first step of the transition to change from male

25:21

to female was hormone therapy that

25:24

men a regiment of estrogen

25:27

and a testosterone blocker. So

25:30

it wasn't more than a month after that

25:32

first conversation with the therapist

25:34

that I actually had my prescription for the hormones.

25:37

And I think that was a moment, right, a

25:40

daunting moment in our relationship. Oh

25:42

yeah. The reality is, for every

25:45

milestone I hit in my own

25:47

transition, that was a

25:49

moment to where I was taking

25:51

away part of who I was

25:54

from from Laura. But as far as the

25:56

start of hormones for me, there

25:58

was a lot of emotion tied up and taking that first

26:01

pill and fear of

26:03

the unknown and what's going to happen, and

26:05

like she alluded to, just the loss of

26:08

the person that I originally fell in love with,

26:11

But it turned out that when she took the first

26:13

pill, it was just a pill, and it takes

26:15

months for any noticeable changes anyway,

26:18

So it's really more just symbolic than anything

26:20

actually happening on that day. And I've

26:23

been a hundred percent on board with all of it because

26:25

I knew that she needed it in

26:27

order to live and

26:29

live freely and be happy.

26:32

And although every step has

26:34

been hard for me and has been in a lot

26:36

of ways a loss for me or

26:38

even to an extent a bit of a grieving

26:41

process. I'm still on board

26:43

with it because I would never stand

26:45

in the way of the person I love more than

26:47

anything in the world having the opportunity

26:49

to be happy. In

26:51

addition to the hormones, Samantha has had five

26:53

surgeries in two years to transition

26:55

from being a man to a woman. And

26:58

during those surgeries, I was out

27:00

of commission for anywhere between

27:02

a week too almost

27:05

two months, and that put

27:07

a huge burden on Laura to keep the

27:09

house running and keep the kids going with school

27:11

and everything else while I was recovering,

27:14

and I asked you to do that multiple times.

27:17

And those stresses definitely

27:19

tested our ability to keep this marriage

27:21

in a good place. And along with that too, each

27:24

of those surgeries was a bit of a trauma

27:26

for me, just seeing her in so

27:28

much pain, the loss

27:30

of whatever thing was being surgically

27:33

changed into something new, the fear

27:35

of the unknown. Samantha

27:37

and Laura's kids are all on the autism spectrum.

27:41

One way they helped communicate new and different

27:43

things that are happening in their lives are these things called

27:45

social stories. Social

27:47

stories break down a new idea into simple

27:49

parts, often incorporating pictures

27:52

to help the kids understand something new. And

27:54

so we wrote two different stories. I think it

27:56

was too because the baby, I mean,

27:59

he was six months old. He'll

28:01

never remember anything different. And

28:03

then the other ones were six,

28:06

six, four, and two. So we wrote

28:08

one story for the six year old. He's very bright,

28:10

very verbal, and he's

28:12

already able to read at that point, so his story

28:15

was just text. And in

28:17

that story, we explained to him that

28:20

she had always felt like a girl on the inside

28:23

and she was going to be using a new name and

28:25

new pronouns, and we got his input

28:27

on the name, which was kind of a whole other

28:30

story, but we did get his input on it, so

28:32

he felt like he was helping decide, and

28:35

we specifically said, Mama

28:37

is still going to do all your favorite things with you, like

28:40

chase you and tickle you and build legos with

28:42

you. And about two or three days

28:44

later, we were putting him to bed and he's just distraught.

28:46

He's in tears, and we're

28:49

asking him what's going on, why are you upset? And

28:51

he said, Mama hasn't chased me yet.

28:54

And because he thinks very black and

28:56

white. It was in the story, and

28:59

we said she was going to do it, and she hadn't done it yet, so

29:01

something must be wrong, and so of course

29:04

she tossed him out of bed and chased him around

29:06

for ten minutes and Tickle attacked him. And then he

29:08

felt better about it. And not to

29:10

say that as he gets older he won't have questions

29:12

and struggle with different aspects of

29:14

this transition, But as

29:17

much as any six year old can wrap their

29:19

head around it, he did, and within two

29:21

to three weeks he was using the right name, the right pronouns.

29:24

He jumps to her defense. If anyone uses

29:27

the wrong one and has a slip up, Bill

29:29

immediately correct them. So he's been really great

29:32

for the younger too. Like I

29:34

said, at the time they were fourign to the

29:36

four year old is still nonverbal.

29:39

The two year old at this point he's limited

29:41

verbal, And so that story had to be a little

29:43

bit different. So it incorporated a lot of pictures

29:46

the same concepts, but just simpler

29:48

terms and a little bit less verbage.

29:52

So now that the kids were on board, things seem to be

29:54

going smoothly. But

29:57

sometimes it's the small things that can become sticking

29:59

points. One of

30:01

the things that was really hard for Laura that she didn't

30:03

expect was sharing the title of mom,

30:06

because my initial reaction with

30:08

all of this was, I'm mom, mommy,

30:10

all variations of mom and mother, that's

30:14

me. I'm not sharing that's my title.

30:16

I carried these babies, I gave birth to them,

30:18

I nursed them. That's my

30:21

title. And her initial

30:23

reaction was completely supportive

30:25

that I could see how much it hurt

30:28

Laura to have to consider sharing

30:30

the title that she rightfully earned.

30:32

And so we kind of went back and forth for a month or two

30:35

with some alternatives. Some people in

30:37

our situations they go by a name

30:39

Maddie, which is a combination of mom

30:41

and daddy. Some people just use their

30:44

first name. Some people choose

30:46

mother from a different language. They

30:49

initially settled on an alternative name, but

30:52

I could tell she wasn't really jazzed about it,

30:54

and so I kind of called her out on it one

30:56

night and I said, so, what's the deal, what are you

30:59

really thinking? And she

31:01

told me that she wanted to be a variation

31:03

on mom. And my initial reaction was to be very upset

31:06

and very hurt, because I said, this was my

31:08

territory and I'm not sharing. But

31:11

then she started to explain that in

31:13

a situation like ours, if

31:15

one person is called mom and the other person

31:17

is called Samantha or is called

31:20

some variation or nickname,

31:23

they would not necessarily be seen as

31:25

a part of the family unit. They would

31:27

be seen potentially as a

31:29

step parent. She's definitely their parents,

31:32

She's been there from day one, and so

31:34

once I kind of had that perspective, I

31:36

said, Okay, I guess that makes sense. Yeah,

31:38

I mean, there are some people that transition and they're they're

31:41

perfectly fine using the title daddy.

31:43

I couldn't use that title. That was a title

31:46

I just did not feel comfortable with. So

31:49

I I really needed to be a mom

31:52

in the eyes of my kids. I

31:54

don't mean to sound greedy or selfish,

31:57

but if it wasn't going to be

31:59

mom or some variation of that,

32:02

I would have rather have just been Samantha to the

32:04

kids. It's it's impersonal,

32:06

it's it would have hurt to

32:09

have to give up that title, but it

32:11

would have been better than having to keep

32:13

the old one or try to invent a new word

32:15

to describe what I was. I still

32:17

sat on it for probably another month or so before

32:21

I finally said, Okay, I'll keep mommy

32:23

and you can be Mama, and we'll let our oldest

32:25

decide how he wants us to spell it. So that

32:27

was his decision making portion of it.

32:30

So he picked m A m A. But

32:33

that was that was probably one of the

32:35

bigger points of contention

32:37

for me. It was what the kids were going to call her.

32:41

I'm sorry, I remember using this

32:43

analogy a lot when we first started. You

32:46

know, let's let's always move forward. Let's always

32:48

break bigger issues down into smaller

32:50

pieces. Get through those smaller pieces.

32:53

Once we solve something, once we come to an answer

32:55

and we're agreed on both sides, move

32:58

it out of the way, move out of the next thing. Just

33:00

keep knocking things out, trying not to fall back,

33:03

trying not to get stuck in the weeds. And

33:06

with the mom and the title conversation,

33:08

it's something that really had to be broken down into

33:11

very small chunks and really

33:13

thought about multiple times. In

33:16

some ways, a lot of the hard parts are over.

33:20

Laura and Samantha are finally beyond the medical portion

33:22

of the transition. Samantha has come out

33:24

to everyone in their lives, but

33:27

in a lot of other ways. They're just starting

33:29

to rebuild their marriage. There's

33:31

no more surgeries on schedule, and

33:33

and things have finally been allowed to get back

33:35

to normal. But we spent so

33:38

long in that mode of surgery

33:40

recovery, surgery recovery that I

33:42

think we lost a little bit of our

33:45

own cadence in life. And

33:47

we've been working on that. We've been working

33:50

to make sure to make time for ourselves. And

33:52

again, with four kids, it's a very busy house.

33:56

With four special needs kids, it's even busier.

33:58

It's harder for us to get away. So we've and working

34:00

really hard to make sure that we do get time

34:02

to ourselves and we are allowed to talk

34:06

to each other and and have those date nights

34:08

and go wives

34:11

somewhere outside of our living room or kitchen

34:13

for a couple hours every week. Exactly

34:17

a year after Samantha walked out of the Grand Canyon,

34:19

ready to completely change your life, Laura

34:22

proposed at the Grand

34:24

Canyon. They had a vale renewal

34:27

on their twelfth anniversary, same

34:29

venue, same photographer, Laura even

34:31

wore the same dress. The difference

34:34

was at this time Samantha got to wear one too,

34:37

because I know Initially in

34:39

the transition, I had this sort of

34:41

gut reaction like, well, if you're going to

34:43

be a wife now, then I expect you to step up

34:45

and do X y Z. Whether it

34:47

was more laundry or cooking

34:50

or cleaning or dishes or whatever. It

34:52

was, those kind of more stereotypically

34:55

wife duties. And

34:57

the reality is in our relationship,

35:00

she's the career mom and I'm the at

35:02

home mom, and that's what our roles

35:05

always were, just hers was the other

35:07

gender before. This

35:09

hasn't been easy by any stretch,

35:11

and I don't want it to come across that way, but

35:14

it has been worth it. And like

35:17

I said earlier, I don't think everyone

35:20

can stay, and I don't think everyone should stay,

35:22

but just try to give it your best,

35:25

whatever that looks like, and

35:27

just try to be kind to each other no matter how it

35:29

turns out. I think that's the big thing,

35:31

right. Yeah,

35:59

I have one last question, Samantha.

36:02

Could you have done this without Laura? Yes?

36:05

I could have done this without her. Could

36:08

I have been as successful?

36:11

Could I have been as happy as I am

36:13

now without her? No?

36:17

Her support, her unwavering

36:19

commitment to me through this process has been

36:22

absolutely incredible when

36:24

you're recovering from a major surgery

36:27

and you can barely even lift yourself out of bed,

36:29

and you you have someone there who loves

36:31

you unconditionally as you're basically

36:34

in pieces. What

36:37

what can you even say to that? Her

36:39

love for me has been

36:42

absolutely incredible? And when I

36:44

say her love for me, I mean, you know, before

36:46

transitioning and and since transitioning.

36:50

So sure I could have transitioned, but I'm

36:53

a better person because of her. And

36:56

it's so exciting to be on the other side of

36:58

transition now and still

37:00

have her by my side and

37:03

all the amazing things that are still yet to come. I'm

37:05

just I'm so excited for what the future will brain. This

37:21

episode was hosted and reported by Joe Piazza,

37:23

special thanks to Samantha and Laura Philoso.

37:27

It was produced and edited by Ramsey Youngt, with

37:29

live song recording by Sarah Ventry, mixing

37:32

by Tristan McNeil. The executive

37:34

producers are Joe Piazza, Julie Douglas,

37:36

and Tyler Clang. Theme song and music

37:39

by Tristan McNeil. For comments,

37:41

suggestions or to be part of the show, give

37:43

us a call at four zero four three.

37:48

That's four zero four one

37:52

three, or send us an email at Joe

37:54

at Committed podcast dot com. That's

37:57

j O at Committed podcast dot

37:59

com. You can grab a copy of Joe's

38:01

new book, Charlotte Walsh likes to Win

38:03

on Amazon or wherever books are sold.

38:06

If you are someone you know is trans, are

38:08

questioning and experiencing crisis, or

38:11

if you just need to talk, please call

38:13

trans Lifeline at eight

38:15

seven seven five six five eight

38:18

eight six zero. That's eight

38:21

seven seven five six five eight

38:23

eight six zero, or go visit

38:26

trans Lifeline dot org.

38:29

That's trans Lifeline

38:31

dot org. Committed as a production of

38:33

iHeart Radio and produced in our studio is

38:35

located in Atlanta, Georgia. For more podcasts

38:37

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38:42

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