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On a cold February evening in Petty

1:18

Harbor, Newfoundland, Kimberly Oren showed us around

1:20

the handful of buildings and boats that

1:23

she uses to fight what some people

1:25

consider a losing battle. Yeah,

1:28

so we have wooden dories down

1:30

here that we practice corking a dory on.

1:32

And down at the end of Cyril's stage

1:34

during the summer, we have a floating pier.

1:37

And then we have some citizen

1:39

science projects that go on down

1:41

there at the end, also to

1:43

incorporate that into the sustainable fishing

1:45

that we undergo here.

1:48

Kimberly spent much of her life as a science

1:50

teacher. But today, she tries to

1:53

inspire wonder about the natural world with

1:55

a nonprofit that she runs with her

1:57

husband called Fishing for Success. And

2:00

that losing battle that she's fighting is

2:03

an attempt to keep Newfoundland's

2:05

fishing traditions alive. They

2:07

take all kinds of people onto the

2:09

water who might not otherwise have the

2:11

chance, especially children. Unfortunately,

2:14

it was the wrong

2:16

time of year, so we were

2:18

hopelessly land-bound. The boat would be tied up

2:20

here at the stage head, and that's where we'd

2:22

get into a boat when it's fishing season.

2:25

What we want to do, which is

2:27

to get as many people in the

2:29

boat as possible, and provide

2:31

access to fishing for folks who

2:34

normally wouldn't have access to it. We

2:36

walked past a small boat that was painted

2:38

with a pride rainbow on the outside and

2:40

the pink and blue of the trans pride

2:42

flag on the inside, a physical example of

2:44

the kind of inclusive ethic they approach their

2:47

work with. So, you know,

2:49

young folks and women and

2:52

newcomers and indigenous folks, and

2:54

try to give them access to fishing out

2:56

in the ocean. It's not

2:59

something that folks have access

3:01

to as much as we used to. Despite

3:09

being a society built on the fishery,

3:12

most people in Newfoundland and Labrador no

3:14

longer have a direct connection to it. And

3:17

just a few decades ago, right before

3:19

the cod moratorium, around 30% of working

3:21

people in the province were somehow involved

3:24

in the fishing industry. So

3:26

just about everybody had a nan or a pop,

3:29

and so they had more access to

3:31

going out and going fishing. But

3:34

today with the industrialized and

3:36

professionalized fishery, and

3:38

if less than 2% of us involved in

3:41

the commercial fishery, access to

3:43

it is much less. So

3:46

how do you provide opportunity and

3:48

access to something really, you know,

3:50

fishing, is something that humans have done

3:52

ever since they could, you know, totter down

3:55

to the shore. So, yeah, that's what we're

3:57

trying to do. side

4:00

a little bit more, we went into the

4:02

building that they call the schoolhouse to sit

4:04

down to talk some more. A washroom, and

4:06

then this we call our schoolhouse. We

4:09

try to keep the fish out of it. It

4:13

didn't look much like a schoolhouse, to be honest.

4:15

It was more of a small wooden shack with

4:17

a little wood stove that kept the winter chill

4:19

out. And written into every

4:21

nook and cranny of the wooden walls were

4:23

the names of the many, many people who

4:25

passed through here. Working

4:27

for success is the brainchild of both

4:30

Kimberly and her husband Leo. Kimberly

4:32

grew up partially in Newfoundland, but moved around

4:34

a lot because her father was in the

4:36

US Navy. She taught science

4:38

for years. Meanwhile Leo,

4:41

he's born and raised in Petty Harbor.

4:44

He worked as a fisherman for much of his life. And

4:47

when you sit down to talk to them, it's clear

4:49

that in some ways they are very different

4:52

people. Kimberly fully enunciates every

4:54

word properly, evoking her past

4:56

as a schoolteacher. Leo,

4:59

he talks in a typical Newfoundland brogue.

5:02

Kim is clearly the optimist in the

5:04

relationship, and Leo plays the role of

5:06

the cynical fisherman who's seen it all

5:08

and knows better than to expect much

5:10

more. But together, they're more

5:12

than the sum of their parts. Then

5:15

when I met Kimberly, we decided to

5:17

think like I hope it's the one who said that first. No,

5:20

I don't think so. You're not taking me out now. I

5:22

told Kimberly I said that. Forget the parts that I went

5:24

to grad school for seven years. Yeah, that's what I'm doing

5:26

with it. For

5:28

Kimberly, part of the inspiration for co-founding

5:31

Fishing for Success was seeing how disconnected

5:33

her students had become from the natural

5:35

world. I would take my

5:37

students on field trips and I noticed over time

5:39

that kids were just less and less connected

5:42

with knowing the plants and animals in

5:44

their own backyards and

5:46

then seeing their attraction to

5:48

their smartphones. And not

5:50

knowing where the fish came from. Not

5:53

knowing where things were grown. So I was

5:55

just concerned that maybe I was teaching the wrong thing,

5:57

being in the classroom. Leo,

5:59

meanwhile. before he met Kimberly

6:01

had been taking tourists out on the

6:03

water so they could experience some fishing

6:05

for themselves. So

6:07

I was taking people out for $40 a person, kept

6:11

the fish and bringing in and I'd

6:13

buy whatever I needed. My

6:16

opinion then was like we need

6:18

to teach our tourists

6:20

about our culture. So like I was on

6:22

the right lines, but

6:25

nobody in the family, my family said, no,

6:27

no, you can't do nothing with it. And

6:30

Kimberly came along and she said, that's

6:32

what I want to do. And I said, you can't do that.

6:34

I'm doing it. Then she said,

6:36

well, we end up doing it together. That's

6:40

what brings them together. Despite their

6:42

very different backgrounds and personalities, they

6:44

both possess a conviction that it's

6:47

essential to pass down the hundreds

6:49

of years of knowledge and tradition

6:51

of Newfoundland's fishermen. Because the

6:53

truth is that in Newfoundland and Labrador, fishing

6:56

is more than just an industry or a

6:58

job. It truly is

7:00

a way of life. It's the

7:02

core of what has made this place what it is.

7:05

Things are different, aren't they? Yeah, the world

7:08

is changing so. So

7:10

many things, calling them away. Like

7:12

do you change with the world

7:14

or do you try to change the world to become

7:16

a ox? Or do you just change

7:19

the little place around you? Well, the only thing we

7:21

can do is what we're doing. Kim

7:24

and Leo, they're trying their best to

7:26

do exactly that. Change the

7:28

little place around them. But

7:31

is it even worth it to try to keep

7:33

all of that alive? After all, there's plenty of

7:35

ways to make a living. And what

7:37

kind of future is in store for

7:40

the people who refuse to let go?

7:46

I'm Archie Mann and this is

7:49

Commons. More after the break.

7:56

This episode is brought to you in part

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10:15

There's. No question that the modern history

10:18

of Canada begins with the cod

10:20

fishery. In Fourteen Ninety

10:22

Seven, John Cabot arrived in

10:24

Newfoundland only four years after

10:26

Columbus landed on the Island

10:28

of Hispaniola, and his voyage

10:30

initiated a long series of

10:32

events that resulted in the

10:34

settlements, conquest, and subjugation of

10:36

the northern part of this

10:38

continent and it's indigenous inhabitants

10:40

by European powers. In, even

10:42

though Newfoundland and Labrador with

10:45

the last province to join

10:47

confederation, it was that encounter

10:49

of Talbot and his crew.

10:51

Stumbling across more fish than they could

10:53

imagine that directly led to the creation

10:55

of the state that we now call

10:57

Canada. But. As I've been

11:00

researching these last few episodes, I.

11:02

Started to have even more ambitious

11:04

thoughts about the importance of the

11:06

cod fishery. I. Think you

11:08

could credibly argue that the Grand Banks

11:10

off of New Finland are one of

11:13

the very birthplaces of modernity itself. Long

11:16

side gold and silver from West

11:18

Africa in Mesoamerica, It lana card

11:20

was one of the very first

11:22

globally traded commodities spring the creation

11:24

of a new trading ecosystem and

11:27

building vast fortunes of both sides

11:29

of the Atlantic. Newfoundland

11:31

was Britain's first overseas colony,

11:33

inaugurating the British empire and

11:35

institutions under whose shadow we

11:37

still all live under. Slavers.

11:40

Use Salt Cod is currencies and traded

11:42

the commodity for West African kept and

11:44

it was one of the main foods

11:46

given to those very same slaves while

11:49

they worked at a brutal sugar plantations

11:51

of the Caribbean which provided the excess

11:53

calories needed to power the industrial revolution.

11:56

The wheels of Colonialism, globalization

11:58

and in does. Realization all

12:01

started rolling in part because

12:03

European saw the potential for

12:05

profit. A codfish represented. The

12:08

reason I bring all of this up is to

12:10

say that for me. The past,

12:12

present, and future of the fishery

12:15

in Newfoundland and Labrador isn't a

12:17

small question. It's a

12:19

potential conclusion to a story

12:21

of epoch defining proportions. If.

12:24

The Modern world has it's roots in the

12:26

waters off with the coast of Newfoundland. Maybe.

12:29

We can learn something about our

12:31

collective future. Their to. Scores.

12:34

Of workers have toiled on the

12:36

seas catching fish, making the light

12:39

in inadvertently shaping the world. For.

12:41

Hundred the years they pass down

12:44

their knowledge, their expertise, and their

12:46

traditions from one generation to another.

12:48

And at the end of one of those

12:51

long threads of history. Was. Leo

12:53

Her. A young boy growing

12:55

up and petty harbor. Who. Wanted

12:57

to be just like his dad.

13:00

When. I was a school teacher says so like meals,

13:03

somebody's gonna be. And I'm like

13:05

I want to be for summer number like what you

13:07

want to be and I'm like on of a for

13:09

smugness have. Their like yeah like

13:11

when you finish your education What you

13:13

want A big fisherman. I

13:16

see a you get this straight year. By.

13:19

The time he was working age to convince his

13:21

dad to take him out with him. So

13:23

came on Sunday. I want to go fishing. Is.

13:26

But he's from us who first know Robert. But.

13:29

He says is no even. Leo. Didn't

13:31

know what his dad meant when he said

13:33

there was quote. Know. In. For.

13:35

The next morning nunu when you meant

13:37

when we're out and was like a

13:40

really rough and for jagan squid spread.

13:42

five o'clock in the morning and against

13:44

or between the two eyes and I

13:46

got seasick so much there's a hammer.

13:48

you bring me home. Even.

13:50

Though the harbor was insights, his dad didn't

13:52

take him home. And that's

13:54

when he realized what his Dad meant. I

13:57

know when. They. Were going

13:59

to work the day. No. Matter

14:01

what, Did the

14:03

bambee rigid fishing or know when I'm like

14:05

no way the now it just made the

14:07

right if we're to bring me and. Some.

14:10

What about what A got where he was? Lana Golden. On

14:13

it's first proper trip out in the

14:15

water, young Leo had just discovered that

14:18

he was a wannabe fisherman's who susceptible

14:20

the sea sickness. Which. Is

14:22

not ideal. But. He

14:24

kept at it. For. Years I

14:26

was like so embarrassed that I couldn't

14:28

do my work. As a cease

14:31

it. right? To see sick.

14:33

but I try to get sick again. And

14:35

he hosted at a Probe Duchess for

14:37

twenty five years and we had our

14:39

own enterprise. Most of my wrought iron

14:41

soon got sick every day, but I

14:43

said at a. A because

14:46

I love that like I I just loved

14:48

affect us everyday or learn some different. Outer

14:51

and if this were fishes about and on

14:53

the ocean is every change as to whether

14:55

change quick to wanting to throw everybody gets

14:57

moots after we're done. I got my own

15:00

both. Now don't get sick. Lucky

15:02

you're in control. Makes a different rate. Yeah,

15:04

you're feeling Carrington home and. Unlikely.

15:07

Else Kimberly didn't aspire to be a

15:09

fisherman. But. She did grow up around

15:11

the water. Growing. Up around

15:13

the worse you could just join and

15:15

my son, all other kids in the

15:17

community and help pull out. That.

15:19

Success and for me that was pretty

15:22

exciting because I wanted know what parts

15:24

were and I want to know that

15:26

was a girl says your voice s

15:28

and I learned more about science pulling

15:30

out that's assess the night that I

15:32

didn't the science classroom and. That's.

15:34

Where I think really clued me

15:37

to this place and then also

15:39

did secure my interest in science

15:41

so I wanted to. Go

15:43

fishing the ice fishing. Go fishing for

15:45

mud trout's never could get a fisherman

15:47

to take me out cod fishing because

15:50

girls were bad luck than a but

15:52

i kept trying and as soon as

15:54

i to get my own boat I

15:56

did. Kim. I'm Leo,

15:58

are both incredibly now. Double bed fishing

16:00

and the waters off for the new someone

16:03

coast. But. They each bring a

16:05

different kind of knowledge to the table.

16:07

A son, the one with the book

16:09

learning and else I've spent seven years

16:12

and grad schools ancestry isn't aquatic sciences.

16:14

I could start this project. Went

16:16

to marine Institute said that I could

16:18

get the of fishing captains tickets Knowledge

16:21

that and he's got the. Traditional

16:23

knowledge and so we constantly

16:25

have this tug of war

16:27

between us about his knowledge

16:29

of this is surprise he's

16:31

got more knowledge, she's got

16:34

more stuff on paper. Than

16:36

a. Lot of course freshman in her

16:39

because she went on long past them

16:41

out could mess and recess was going

16:43

to discourse season yelling. he wants to

16:45

take credit for it but anyway that's

16:48

not nothing credible or was it was

16:50

the right move to meet. Of

16:52

I had a goat, I wouldn't make it as good

16:54

as us. Together. They

16:57

combine both of their experiences to teach

16:59

people about fishing and give them first

17:01

hand experience that they might not get

17:03

otherwise. Kids make up a big

17:06

portion of their clients. Things. Have

17:08

gotten worse since the pandemic because

17:10

so many kids had to do

17:12

online school and so that really

17:15

then solidified that interface. That technology.

17:18

You. Know and so when you get

17:20

kids out in the bow and

17:22

they've got five senses engaged instead

17:24

it's just there's thumbs on this list

17:26

screen but now they are as

17:28

smelling things that they no longer

17:30

the kids will cover their face

17:32

and mates disgusting sounds and then it's

17:34

cold out there and in other

17:36

thing splashed with water and the

17:39

most of the boat. When they're so

17:41

used to having sturdy ground under

17:43

their seats, every sense is engaged.

17:45

It's very overloading for some of

17:47

them. But. They don't only

17:49

served children. One. Of the first groups

17:51

Kim and Leo worked with was First Light,

17:54

a local indigenous friendship Centers that connect them

17:56

with a group of Intuit elders living in

17:58

St. John's. When. The. Negative Director

18:00

First Light broke the news to the

18:02

elders. Many. Of them got emotional. She

18:05

said when she went and told the

18:07

in your elders that they were going

18:09

fishing that some of them cried because

18:12

they're away, some their homeland and many

18:14

of them had. Been fishing since they

18:16

left home. So. To be able

18:18

to provide that kind. Of access for

18:20

them is it makes us try to

18:22

have some the or as as is

18:24

good for me to see the people

18:26

that leave your after the day. Nobody's.

18:29

Disappointed. You know the day and

18:31

water to cuttlefish dirty some age

18:33

with it. You know to work

18:36

we're doing a program this rate.

18:39

For. Cumin Leo connecting people with

18:41

fishing isn't just about ensuring

18:43

the passer bys. It's not

18:45

the future. So. Don't forget

18:47

that there's so many other things that

18:49

we need people to understand about what's

18:52

happening on the water. Seventy percent the

18:54

planet is covered by water, especially ocean.

18:56

Climate change is driven by the ocean

18:59

in and turn tribes changes that we

19:01

see on the ocean. and so for

19:03

going to get young people involved in

19:05

this climate change to none drum that

19:08

with that going on we really need

19:10

to get children back to the ocean.

19:12

So how do we do that and

19:14

mean is it means getting. Kids back

19:17

to the wharf hauling out says that's

19:19

and cutting out cod tons. Will that

19:21

nuts when I'm trying to see her

19:23

out? try and I you know I

19:26

worry that we. Aren't inspiring? The

19:28

next generation? Of scientists that

19:30

we need to solve the biggest

19:32

problems that are coming up to

19:35

the really think the biggest problems

19:37

are nature based. I don't think

19:39

we're going to code ourselves out

19:41

of this coming big problems that

19:43

we have. Was. We get a motor.

19:45

We get them. Dorms, To be some

19:47

that widowed a little while. To.

19:50

Not worried about to fall in know. They're

19:52

taking their phone out when they want to get. A. Picture their

19:54

family the big session. Was.

19:57

Talking to Kimberly Leo. There

19:59

was one question that I couldn't stop

20:01

thinking about. When. His work.

20:04

More. Than just work. In.

20:07

Newfoundland and Labrador. It's clear that for

20:09

so many people fishing represent something more

20:11

than just work though it is that

20:14

as well. But Why?

20:16

Should people care if the

20:18

fishery disappears? That's a

20:20

question. Gens. Thornhill Varma, the author of

20:22

Cod Collapse, who you've heard from in

20:24

our last two episodes, has been contemplating

20:27

for years. Tell us who

20:29

live next to the fishery have the

20:31

most at stake. When. It's. Homes.

20:35

I think they care deeply. About

20:37

being able to preserve a. Way of

20:39

Life. Which means you know if you care about the

20:41

way of life, you have to care at least as

20:43

much. About the fish. And

20:46

the oh sense. If you remove.

20:49

The local fishery the ensure

20:51

a fishery. The. Local boats.

20:54

Then. I think you remove that.

20:56

That. Access Point to understanding how the

20:59

world around us is. Is. Changing

21:01

the people wearing the boots and boats and

21:03

harbors. Where this is happening. The

21:06

they care deeply because they live there,

21:08

They raise their kids, their. In.

21:10

Other kids go to school here. They're.

21:13

Mowing lawns and taking care of

21:15

the local parks and. The.

21:17

Minute that we just a a lose

21:19

sight of the fact of how important

21:21

these ensure. This reason small

21:24

scale fisheries are. I think we

21:26

we also just. Become even more complacent

21:28

than we are today. And.

21:30

As we learned during the Cod collapse,

21:33

ensure fishers are a vital source of

21:35

knowledge about our oceans and coastlines. I.

21:38

Think Canada has a big role to play

21:40

and as because we have the Lodge you

21:42

know, the longest coastline on the planet. Just

21:44

and if well, outdoor. There's four hundred fishing

21:47

dependent communities. I'm sure there are

21:49

many more communities involved in the fishery

21:51

as well. And I'm sure there

21:53

are thousands across Canada in and of

21:55

itself. And you know if

21:57

you don't have these communities. Reading

22:00

for those fishery resources. At.

22:02

The edge of the ocean. Then I I

22:04

think we really. Are in trouble. In.

22:07

Recent years more and more people have

22:09

become interested in where the food on

22:12

their plate comes from. And. It

22:14

is no different when it comes to seafood. I.

22:16

Was at Eb. I'll call it a sushi.

22:18

Restaurant and the Wharf and Halifax. In.

22:21

The Fall and I said you know, where's this

22:23

card from. And the server

22:25

said world's from the Atlantic

22:28

Ocean. Okay, I. Need a

22:30

little more specificity than that? I'd really

22:32

like to know. How it was

22:34

caught in Which part of the

22:37

Atlantic Ocean. I think we should

22:39

be asking. More of what's on. Our plate

22:41

enormous encounter tude As I've mentioned this

22:43

a few times that Atlantic. Cod is nowhere

22:45

near at one time level of abundance, but. Every.

22:48

Time I bring my kids new for land

22:50

I will take them out on the worth

22:52

often as facilitated. By Kimberly Oren and Leo.

22:54

Hern and Petty Harbor to take him fishing.

22:56

and I do that because. I. Want

22:59

them to know whether says. Comes from.

23:01

You. Know there's good evidence to suggest if you. Know. Where

23:04

your fishes from, you're going to be more

23:06

likely to care about. that says and I

23:08

will say somebody reports. On fisheries and

23:10

conservation issues. really hard to. Get

23:12

people to care about this. You. Know

23:15

polar bear shore. Atlantic. Cod

23:17

not so much. And as

23:19

part of the conversation in I think if we're

23:21

going to turn things around then everyday. People need

23:23

to start questioning what's on their plate. And

23:26

Jin says that even over most of

23:28

us, the work of fisherman is visible.

23:30

It is essential. It

23:32

operates in the background. But.

23:35

If it were gone we would

23:37

desperately mess at. we would desperately miss

23:39

it. Despite the

23:41

best efforts of people liked him. Leo

23:43

engine. The. Future of the fishery

23:46

remains uncertain. For. One, There's

23:48

just no guarantees that we won't

23:50

once again cause environmental calamity like

23:52

the destruction of the Atlantic Coast.

23:55

You. Know a big failing of of. Why?

23:58

Fisheries Today. Canada are

24:00

not sustainable. He managed. Is.

24:03

That you don't have a lot to do with not

24:05

being premised. On the best available

24:07

science advice. I. Did a examination

24:09

I looked at all this species at risk

24:11

in Canada. So. Over two hundred

24:14

species of fish at risk. And

24:17

it is very clear to me the data.

24:19

Shows that the greater determinant of whether

24:21

or not of the species at risk.

24:23

It's. Protected. Is. Not it's

24:26

risk status, but it's commercial

24:28

value. So. If you don't

24:30

take a fish. Out Of the water. Then.

24:32

Somebody is Bottom line is impacted.

24:35

This is why when we think

24:37

about the future, the fishery and

24:39

having of history that has much

24:41

bigger boats more at stake, you

24:44

know it's gonna make these decisions

24:46

on teetering between conservation and commercialization.

24:48

Veer more in the direction

24:51

of commercialization. And. In

24:53

a we just won't to that kind of

24:55

life and livelihood that the insurer fishery once.

24:58

Protected. And promoted in New Flow

25:00

Labrador. If we once

25:02

again fish entire species out of

25:04

existence. The meantime debate around the

25:06

future of the fishery is moot. But.

25:09

There are models more sustainable ones that

25:11

could serve as an example. One.

25:13

Of the persistent problems with the

25:15

New Someone groundfish fishery is that

25:17

it's generally saver volume over quality.

25:20

Traditionally, the Northwest Atlantic

25:22

Cod fishery. Was. Really

25:24

premised on Apollo, a stick model where

25:26

they were catching enormous amounts of cod

25:29

and then freezing and as blocks and

25:31

then that would be used for. The

25:33

steaks or pod cheeks. But I

25:35

think when people make comparisons between

25:37

in Icelandic cod or Norwegian cod

25:39

and new Salon Labrador cause. They're.

25:42

Also looking at were that caught is going

25:44

in and how it's being processed and and

25:46

I would say that you're seeing a lot

25:48

more falaise coming. Out of a country like

25:50

Iceland then he would now from from new from

25:52

Lana Labrador. There's. A few

25:54

examples in Newfoundland and Labrador of fishermen

25:56

pushing in that direction. Petty.

25:58

Harbor where we've been. Much of our

26:00

reporting is one of those places. Like.

26:03

This is about not sustainability only

26:05

it's about abundance. It's about. Protecting.

26:08

A way of life. And. Fishing culture

26:10

and community well into the future.

26:12

And so they made the decision

26:14

to move to a Hamline only

26:16

cod fishery and I think it

26:18

as a result. You know many

26:20

people who visit New My. Labrador

26:22

or Newsletters laboratory and says well. We'll.

26:25

Visit Petty Harbor to see that because that

26:27

is a way of life that once was.

26:30

And is demonstrating that a can

26:32

persist. So. Petty Harbor. Fishermen.

26:35

They're also getting a greater value for

26:37

the fish that they catch. Not the

26:39

case with the hamline pod fishers because

26:41

they are fishing a premium. This and

26:44

Fillet and that's what people are looking

26:46

for. There's. Other examples,

26:48

many of which involve fishers banding

26:50

together to cut out the middleman.

26:53

A good example of that is the father. While and

26:55

co op. So. They collectively

26:57

will fish and they have these

26:59

this to table program where they're

27:02

selling to restaurants in Ontario and

27:04

Quebec and so by eliminating. That

27:06

middleman. They're able to get a better price

27:08

point. For. Their cats. Ryan.

27:11

Query isn't self trying to get

27:13

a cooperative off the ground which

27:15

he seizes the best path forward

27:17

for Newfoundland fishers. He. Points

27:19

to the Labrador Fisherman's Union Shrimp

27:22

Companies, a social enterprise set up

27:24

by Labrador. He insists Harvesters as

27:26

an inspiration. They've. Got

27:28

Fi processing plants, five hundred employees

27:30

these one hundred and thirty a

27:32

fisherman now have to middle distance

27:35

boast of the wrong offshore factory

27:37

freezer trawler that they actually on

27:39

fifty percent of with a cooperative

27:41

fisherman's cooperatives out of New Brunswick.

27:43

So the line of thinking is

27:45

something similar for new from Ed

27:47

Worthy ensure fleet the insurer enterprise

27:49

owners have to become a player.

27:51

They. Have to become the processor,

27:53

not just the harvester, the processor,

27:56

the marketer. They have to become

27:58

players at the table. The

28:00

only way for the ensure fleet the

28:02

save themselves. Is to save

28:05

themselves. And. A cooperatives is

28:07

the way to do that. You can't

28:09

look the government to fix the problems.

28:11

When. Government is the problem. Like.

28:14

Kim and Leo and Chen Rhine

28:16

Cleary also isn't willing to just

28:18

let the see three die a

28:21

slow death. At least not without

28:23

of. We need a

28:25

bit of a revolution when it comes to history

28:27

and of land and Labrador, but the question is

28:29

whether not there's enough lifeless. One. Of

28:31

the biggest things that you fight against here

28:33

in Atlanta laboratories: apathy, A

28:35

lot of years have passed. A whole

28:38

generation on the waters. Basic have been

28:40

lost. It's been lost in terms of

28:42

groundfish. In terms of of cod or

28:44

whatever do we have the backbone to.

28:46

We have the determination, division and the

28:48

will to become masters of our own

28:51

destiny. Two to take over management control

28:53

like it should be taken up. Control.

28:55

Will. See, I know I've got to fight

28:57

a Me. I'm going to fight until there's

29:00

no fight. Last, I mean, I don't know

29:02

how to stop. But. The

29:04

possibility of fishers asserting themselves

29:06

more creating new structures that

29:08

to be more sustainable but

29:11

ecologically and financially. That's.

29:13

The only one potential future.

29:15

And not by any means the most

29:18

likely one. Because. By

29:20

all accounts, there's fewer people than

29:22

ever that even wanna be fishermen.

29:26

Atlantic Canada is a home to

29:28

Canada as high as for forced

29:30

and seniors, an efficiency food workforce.

29:32

Is no exception to that. And nice. My lab

29:34

at Orbit across the. Land to Canada. And

29:37

see where young people are definitely considering

29:40

careers and fisheries for a whole number

29:42

of reasons and and whether that's aboard

29:44

boats are on processing lions. They're.

29:46

Just not choosing. The. Fishery.

29:49

The. Economic risk of enterprise ownership

29:51

is a major impediment. I mean,

29:53

today. In Canada, it's hard enough to own a home,

29:55

but alone. Operate. And own

29:57

your own fishing enterprise. You

30:00

also it was an owner operator. You've got

30:02

a front your seasonal cause before you know

30:04

what the fishing season will bear. Before.

30:06

You know what processors will pay at the

30:08

war like this is just an extraordinary met

30:10

a risk that. Most. People most.

30:13

Everyday workers just cannot understand.

30:16

They. Also, fishers have to be

30:18

highly adaptable. They. Have the

30:20

master different gear types for different fisheries.

30:22

They have to ramp up to new

30:24

fisheries. And. There is this interesting

30:27

case in his Labrador where he talked

30:29

a fisherman. They love their jobs. They

30:31

can't see themselves doing anything else. Beloved.

30:34

That their offices on the water but they

30:36

don't wish upon their loved ones that's going

30:38

to put us in. It's already putting us

30:40

in a serious crunch in terms of trying

30:43

to. Keep afloat. What is

30:45

really important: Industry in Atlantic Canada

30:47

and Canada. But we're going to feel

30:49

that crunch even more. He the next decade

30:51

for sure. And the

30:53

truth is that it's not easy to

30:55

become a fisher. After. The

30:57

called Moratorium the job

31:00

became increasingly professionalized, requiring

31:02

education, additional licensing, and

31:04

significant startup. That.

31:07

Predicament is something that Kimberly Orange

31:09

to Leo Hearn had been thinking

31:11

about a lot. A.

31:13

Young fishermen to is a socialist. Speaking

31:16

at one of the events one time

31:18

he said it was easier to become

31:20

an astronaut. Them. Become a system and

31:22

I know he was exaggerating by would

31:24

easily so leaking. Out of frustration because

31:27

he said when you look at

31:29

the amount of money said it

31:31

takes to invest in purchasing an

31:33

enterprise, investing five years as an

31:35

service, and showing your connection to

31:38

the fisheries. Going to Marine Institute

31:40

in investing in those courses and

31:42

then you have to have your

31:44

seventy percent of your income comes

31:46

from fishing during the fishing season.

31:49

And you're literally as fishing crew,

31:51

you know you're living in poverty.

31:53

As fishing crew, you'd be better.

31:55

Off Just not even. Trying And

31:57

so he said. it's just it's just.

32:00

Hard. Much. Of this was

32:02

by design. And. The years after the

32:04

cod moratoriums, the said the province and

32:06

the seizures unions were in agreement that

32:09

the number of fish harvesters had to

32:11

go down. Fishing could

32:13

no longer beat the employment of

32:15

last resort in Newfoundland and Labrador.

32:18

A licensing system was part of the

32:20

solution. But. No one is

32:22

around to buy their licenses. Sorry

32:25

rethought themselves. His shoes

32:27

line for did it

32:29

because. Now. Gaza

32:32

get like get not been age. Gonna

32:34

want to sell or license plate? And.

32:37

Is no young crowder to buy. Every.

32:39

Time a fisherman retires. And

32:42

that fishing license leaves the community. It's.

32:44

A serious blow for small airports.

32:47

And when you come back here. In. Ten

32:49

years time. Ali's this mobile to

32:51

be all of a modest. When

32:54

a fisherman retires, you know you aswell who

32:56

bought his license in the like? We don't

32:58

know. It's. Not know when in the governing body.

33:01

Even. And Petty Harper came and we else

33:03

have seen the changes over the last few

33:06

years. Ferris. How many

33:08

convenience stores of God? Six or

33:10

seven, six or seven corner stores

33:12

in the community? There's

33:14

you know, there's runoff from

33:17

that. There's there's connections to

33:19

culture, heritage, tourism, There's all

33:21

kinds of other. there is the

33:24

local gas station, there's the inner

33:26

the local restaurants. There's all of

33:28

this little trickle down this that

33:31

get lost now because that little

33:33

boat is it in a harbor

33:35

anymore. As

33:44

we spoke to people and news and lan

33:46

there was one fear that kept being brought

33:48

up again and again. The

33:50

prospect of a C? Sure it's

33:52

without any fisherman. For.

33:55

Half a millennium bce, the people

33:57

of Newfoundland and Labrador have toiled

33:59

pulling. This out of the

34:01

water off the grand Banks,

34:03

but today the monopolistic fish

34:05

processors. They hold all the

34:07

cards. You don't have

34:09

any particular attachment to the history

34:12

or tradition of the land. For.

34:14

Any will t. Outside

34:16

of the pursuit of profit,

34:20

In as a number of fishermen in

34:22

Newfoundland continues to decline. At

34:24

some point he might make more sense

34:26

to bring in foreign fleets to take

34:29

the fish out of the water. The.

34:31

Boats wouldn't even have to touch

34:33

a Canadian shore. Or

34:36

fishery. Could. Turn into

34:38

a mining operation. Something.

34:40

Purely extract is in nature.

34:43

And if that happened, Then. The

34:45

Newfoundland fishermen could become a

34:47

singer like the cowboys, something

34:50

from history or mythologies that

34:52

we remember but isn't a

34:54

real person anymore who has

34:56

knowledge and experience in a

34:58

will. The past doubt what

35:00

they know and. It's

35:04

that kind of future. That

35:06

him and Leo are trying

35:08

desperately to fight off. We.

35:11

Don't know what the future of looks like?

35:13

I wanna try to expose young people to

35:15

as many different. Experiences as possible.

35:18

There's such a deep transform it

35:20

as thing that happens when you

35:22

go out fishing that I know

35:24

it means something and what that

35:26

person does with it is completely

35:28

totally up to them. And

35:31

their battle. Me: Very well be

35:33

a losing. But. They

35:35

plan on fighting regardless.

35:39

I hope that we have. A better connection

35:41

with the Earth with. Fellow

35:43

humans with. Beings.

35:46

That we share the ecosystem with and I

35:48

hope that. That we find

35:50

a way to live sustainably. Are we

35:52

going to? Crows.

35:54

Savings and Sash closer

35:57

together and sons and.

36:00

There and just all of those. Things

36:03

that we sure about. Clients.

36:07

I. Don't know. but I want. I want to give

36:09

young people to space to be able to figure

36:11

that out there future. It's not mine. I mean

36:13

you can see what? am I sixty now and

36:15

then to be sixty this year. It's not my

36:17

future. It's there's. That's.

36:54

Your Episode of Commons. This is our

36:56

final episode focusing on the work a

36:59

fisherman in Newfoundland and Labrador so we

37:01

hope you enjoyed them. But we still

37:03

have so many more episodes coming up

37:06

in our series on work so keep

37:08

listening. If you liked this

37:10

episode, please leave us a rating and

37:12

review and Apple podcasts. I want to

37:15

give a special thanks to Jenn Thornhill

37:17

Vermont's who was an enormous helped and

37:19

connecting us to so many of the

37:21

people we spoke to in this mini

37:24

series. This. Episode where on

37:26

Work done by Jan Thornhill, Verna, Mom

37:28

Rhine Queries, Michael Harris and so many

37:30

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