In our conversation, we explore the deep connection between joy and suffering, pondering biblical narratives set in valleys symbolizing the depths of despair and the peaks of hope. Hear about the transformation from pastoral work to personal wellness, and the embracing of healthier habits that bridge the physical with the spiritual. As we share these stories, we are reminded that true joy is not the denial of pain but the acknowledgment and transcendence of it, offering a path to a joy that persists day after day.

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