0:05

Hey, I'm Dave Clawson from Lawrence Kansas.

0:07

I love listening to Compelled because it

0:10

reminds me of the many amazing and

0:12

unpredictable ways that God works and people's

0:14

lives. It has given me a greater

0:17

desire to share my feet with others

0:19

and you can be so discouraging of

0:21

pray for years for the people I

0:23

love to come to. Christ is and

0:26

listen to these stories of God working

0:28

in the lives of people. I realize

0:30

the gun as a time, a plan

0:33

and many paths that open eyes to

0:35

Jesus. Enjoyed it a surplus

0:37

or. Eyeball

0:41

Hastings and. You're listening to Compel

0:44

where we was gripping, immersive storytelling.

0:46

Too boring The Life: Christian

0:48

Testimonies. From the Kingdom of God

0:50

told by the people compelled to live

0:52

for him. In our last episode we

0:55

heard from Troy Guys a drug dealer

0:57

who thought he was invincible until he

0:59

was shot. Paralyzed and placed

1:01

in. A suicide cell where he

1:03

thought he would lose his mind.

1:05

But then out of nowhere he

1:08

heard a still small voice Again,

1:10

you can hear that story by

1:12

to to into our previous episode

1:14

with Troy Gas. Today our guest

1:16

is an eye shadow lane. Anna

1:18

was deeply rooted in her Catholicism

1:20

alongside her husband and two daughters.

1:22

But and if the elder self

1:24

searching for additional spiritual answers get

1:26

after finding those answers in the

1:29

bible and joyfully sharing them with

1:31

her husband. And I realized

1:33

that he didn't want anything to

1:35

do with it at all. And

1:37

if that was the case, how

1:39

would Jesus want her to respond?

1:42

So gather round, lead an edge,

1:44

join us for another compelling story

1:46

from the Kingdom of God. This

1:57

episode is brought to you by

1:59

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2:28

In January I was recording for a

2:30

solid week at a church in your

2:32

Eyelids a freak colts came through the

2:35

city and one of our priest schedule

2:37

guess had unexpectedly drawdown which left and

2:39

open slot in our otherwise jam packed

2:41

interview schedule but it just so happened

2:43

that Anna was at the church at

2:46

the exact same time that are either

2:48

be slot opened up and we heard

2:50

a little about her testimony, had a

2:52

time in thoughts or says wow that's

2:54

a great story perhaps this is a

2:57

sign from god. And so

2:59

we ask Anna to share her story. And

3:01

I was born in Nineteen Forty, before

3:04

America had even entered World War Two.

3:06

It was raised in Louisiana, where to

3:08

solar system was more than just a

3:10

prominent faith tradition. it was ingrained into

3:12

the very fabric of the community. Throughout.

3:15

Her life and a cell a special

3:17

drawn towards got and was deeply committed

3:20

to a Catholic faith and faithfully attended

3:22

mass alongside her husband and two kids.

3:24

But in her late twenties she noticed

3:27

an emptiness. That. She couldn't quite

3:29

sick. I

3:35

was a ferry think Catholic I

3:38

was a rule following card carrying

3:40

catholic such oath army daily may

3:42

I think them union in the

3:44

summer when I could when my

3:46

kids weren't in school. And. And

3:49

it was interesting because I

3:51

did the ritual things, but

3:53

I really felt like I

3:56

loved God. But. I

3:58

really didn't. Know how to read, relate to

4:00

God except through ritual. It

4:03

was empty. I really believe

4:05

that that was God wooing me.

4:08

It was like, this can't

4:10

be all there is to relationship

4:13

with God, literally. So who would put

4:15

that empty feeling in me but God? You

4:18

know, because a lot of people don't feel empty when they

4:20

go to the Catholic Church. They love

4:22

the ritual, they love the atmosphere, they love the

4:24

smell, they love the windows, they love all of

4:26

that. But I would go and I would leave

4:29

and I would feel like, you

4:31

know, it's

4:33

nothing, this is nothing. The

4:35

priest would get up on the altar and

4:38

he would make jokes and never did

4:41

exegete the scripture, none of

4:43

that. They would read the scripture and then they'd talk

4:45

about something else. And

4:47

so I just felt empty

4:49

and I do believe that was the work of

4:52

God beginning the next phase

4:54

of my relationship with him. God

4:59

was stirring a deeper hunger inside of Anna,

5:01

but she wasn't really sure what to do.

5:04

She longed for understanding, so she looked to

5:06

other voices for truth outside of the church

5:08

that she knew. And a

5:10

few months later, an answer literally came knocking

5:12

at the door. Ah,

5:15

Jehovah Witness, they came to my

5:17

door and I'm thinking, I

5:20

want to know what truth is. I

5:22

want to know truth. And

5:24

they seem to say that they

5:26

had truth. And so at that time without

5:30

knowledge, I said, well, all truth

5:32

is truth. Well, you know, that's

5:34

a kind of an arrogance, but

5:36

it was said out of a

5:39

searching. Took

5:41

a little study with Jehovah Witnesses and

5:45

just got graciously pulled me away from

5:47

that. Edgar Cayce, all

5:49

this reincarnation stuff,

5:51

I'm going down that line. I'm

5:53

going, okay, is that

5:56

truth? And so I just had this, I

5:59

don't know, I was just looking.

6:01

In fact, interestingly, I like

6:04

to read a lot. And so

6:07

I would go to the bookstore

6:09

and buy books, and a lot

6:11

of them were to do with

6:13

reincarnation. And actually was the occult.

6:15

I didn't know that was called occult.

6:18

I was reading that, and literally a

6:20

depression descended on me for

6:24

a year. I'm not a

6:26

depressed personality. So it was

6:28

like, oh my goodness. And

6:31

one day I heard it in

6:33

my head, throw those books

6:35

away. And I

6:37

thought, okay,

6:40

okay. I mean, it was so definite

6:42

that I took all those books and

6:44

I put them in the garbage can,

6:47

and I watched the garbage man take them away.

6:49

And you know when he took those books away,

6:52

that oppression, depression

6:54

left. And

6:56

it never returned. So

6:58

I had been searching about 10

7:00

years. And one

7:02

day I had a neighbor sent

7:04

a woman over to talk to

7:07

me who had been Catholic 40 years

7:09

before and was Baptist. And she,

7:11

you know, she wanted to tell

7:14

you about Jesus. She had an

7:16

evangelistic heart. She was

7:18

a gentle woman, and she asked if

7:20

she could come talk to me. I said, sure. And

7:24

she's talking about salvation, that

7:26

I needed a savior. And

7:28

she put it very well, knowing now, which

7:31

I didn't know then, but I'm

7:33

kind of an aggressive type of a

7:36

person. So I planted my feet, and

7:38

the little bit of scripture that I

7:41

knew from the mass, you

7:43

know, she would say things and I would bump

7:45

it up against her with everything. For

7:47

one thing, I didn't really understand that I was

7:49

a sinner. When she said, you are a sinner. And

7:51

I go, no, I go to confession. And

7:54

my sins are forgiven. And I

7:56

didn't really consider that I was

7:58

like a sinner by nature. I

8:01

just thought I was a person committing sins

8:03

and she's trying to give me

8:06

scriptures about that and of course

8:09

In the church what the church

8:11

says overrides what the scriptures say The

8:14

church's tradition and teachings are more important than

8:16

the scripture. They they outweigh it So she's

8:19

telling me that and I'm standing against

8:21

her and not standing against But

8:23

just kind of disagreeing with her and

8:25

she told me Everything that you should tell

8:27

somebody when you want to bring them to the

8:30

Lord There came a point

8:32

when she stopped and she looked at me and she

8:34

says I've

8:36

told you everything I need to tell you and She

8:39

said so I'm gonna go but

8:42

I want you to read this little booklet

8:44

and she gave me the four spiritual laws

8:46

the little pamphlet But she

8:48

was nice. I mean we didn't have a fussing thing, you know,

8:50

she was she was very a

8:52

delightful woman But she knew when to

8:54

stop talking and that was always impressed

8:56

me. She knew when to stop talking

8:59

so she gave me that little booklet and she

9:02

Leads and I go inside and

9:06

as soon as she left I

9:08

read that booklet and It

9:10

went into the fact that all men

9:13

have sinned It kind of went through

9:15

the Roman road So to speak

9:17

that all men have sinned and come short

9:19

of the glory of God and the

9:21

fact that Nothing that we

9:23

do is good enough To

9:25

save us no matter how good we are

9:27

and that because of sin sin

9:30

had to be judged and either

9:33

we're gonna pay our own judgment or Jesus

9:36

absorbed our judgment for us When

9:40

you surrender to Jesus Christ as

9:42

your Lord and Savior, he's not

9:44

on the periphery Now

9:46

he is in you And

9:50

I can't even explain to you what happened there

9:53

was an illumination that happened in

9:55

my Mind in my

9:57

heart all of a sudden knew

10:00

that everything she said was true. I knew

10:03

that I was a sinner. I knew that I

10:05

needed a savior and I knew

10:07

that Jesus was my savior. And

10:10

I was born again. I mean,

10:15

I cried out to the Lord then. I

10:17

mean, that woman wasn't, she wasn't going 15

10:19

minutes. And it was like, I,

10:22

I, I, it was just to me,

10:25

supernatural. It was just a, you know,

10:27

this, God just opened my

10:29

mind all of a sudden like that. Fell

10:32

in love with the Lord deeply. I fell

10:35

in love with His word and

10:37

I just read and studied and

10:40

I just love the word of God. Now

10:45

that Anna had a true relationship with God,

10:48

one that she'd been desperate to find, Anna

10:50

wanted to share this new discovery with

10:52

her husband, Larry, but she

10:55

also knew that Larry was firmly

10:57

anchored in his traditional Catholic beliefs

10:59

and she wasn't really sure how he

11:01

would respond. I

11:04

had the conversation with Antoine and Larry. I've been looking,

11:06

I know we go to church all

11:08

the time. I mean, we, we were faithful. We went

11:10

every Sunday, you know, we took our kids. We were

11:12

very involved with our kids and you know, we were

11:15

involved in all of that. So when

11:17

I, I told him, I said, you need

11:19

to understand where I'm coming from is that

11:21

I know there's something more to a

11:23

relationship with God than I was experiencing.

11:26

And I said, I've been searching. I've been

11:29

searching for a long time. And then I

11:31

told him how the lady came and what

11:33

happened and he just

11:36

said, okay. And then

11:38

his only thing was don't go overboard with that.

11:43

He didn't say anything like, tell me more.

11:45

Oh, no, no, no, no,

11:48

that, that, that would have been lovely.

11:51

Didn't happen. No. But

11:54

although Larry wasn't interested in learning more, Anna

11:57

still was. And

12:00

so I just studied and read the Scripture.

12:02

At the same time, God blessed me by

12:04

giving me a friend who

12:06

got saved shortly after I

12:08

did. And she also

12:10

had a love of the Word. And we were

12:12

really blessed in each other

12:15

because there was nobody else that

12:17

we really knew too much who

12:19

was believing like we were believing. Like

12:22

we didn't know what things were sin and what

12:24

things weren't sin. We would say she

12:27

was having a big fuss with her husband

12:29

and she says, I wonder

12:31

what God says about divorce. That's how green

12:33

we were. And I don't

12:36

know what he says. I just know the Catholic

12:38

Church tells us that we're not

12:40

supposed to divorce. So we said, okay,

12:42

we're going to study the Scripture this week

12:44

and get back together on Saturday and discuss

12:47

it. So we did. And of course, I

12:49

found out that God said, I hate divorce. And

12:52

so and that was just the gift of

12:54

the Holy Spirit to bring me to

12:57

passages like that. Because how could I know that?

12:59

I didn't even know what a concordance was, you

13:01

know? And so we got back together

13:03

and said, okay, I hate to

13:06

tell you what I found out, but and she goes,

13:08

you don't have to tell me. I found it too.

13:10

You know, just kind of stuff like that. We were

13:12

trying to live our life in light of the Scriptures

13:14

that we knew being untaught.

13:17

It was us and God and the Bible.

13:19

And that was it. But

13:22

the more that Anna continued studying the Bible,

13:25

the more she noticed that it didn't

13:27

actually line up with everything that she'd

13:29

been taught through Catholicism. I

13:32

started studying the Catholic

13:34

religion and what it

13:37

was preaching, what it was teaching, and

13:40

why to believe that. But

13:42

one thing that there is only one mediator between

13:44

God and man, the man Jesus Christ.

13:47

We of course went through Mary and through the

13:49

saints. Okay. And

13:52

I started looking into that. And

13:55

I could see that, yeah, this is true

13:57

because Jesus turned away. people

14:00

from praying to Mary at every opportunity. I

14:02

mean when they would try to exalt Mary,

14:04

he would say no. They would say, oh,

14:06

blessed is the womb that bore

14:08

you and the breast that nourished you. And he

14:11

goes, no, rather blessed is he who does the

14:13

will of my Father in heaven. You

14:16

know, stuff like that. Another

14:19

thing had to do with the

14:21

Mass. I was taught

14:23

in Catechism that the Mass was the same

14:25

sacrifice as the sacrifice of the cross, but

14:28

an unbloody sacrifice. And so as I'm reading

14:31

the scripture, I find out without the blood

14:33

there is no forgiveness of sin.

14:35

And also in

14:37

Hebrews, which didn't relate to the Catholic

14:39

Church, but in my mind it did,

14:41

it was that

14:44

it is not necessary for a priest

14:46

to ascend the altar and offer sacrifices

14:49

day after day. Christ

14:51

died once for all. That

14:53

was not taught in my church.

14:55

It was only little snippets of

14:57

it. And so

15:00

I actually, I

15:03

wanted to leave. It was like

15:05

God started showing me things in

15:07

the scripture that opposed what I

15:11

practiced. And in

15:13

the Catholic Church, can

15:16

you be saved and be in the Catholic Church? I

15:19

think you can. The Catholic Church

15:21

believes that you are saved through the church.

15:25

Jesus sacrifice wasn't

15:27

sufficient because if

15:30

you die with

15:33

unconfessed sin or whatever, you have to

15:35

go to purgatory, you

15:37

know, and they have this whole

15:40

theology of indulgences and getting time

15:42

out of purgatory. And if a

15:44

Catholic is trusting in the church

15:47

for their salvation, they're

15:49

not saved. My dad, he

15:52

and my mom, very devoted Catholics,

15:54

but my daddy always his focus

15:56

was God. So he started to

15:59

have to started reading the Bible, he and Mama,

16:01

that they would read it every night. And

16:03

he would ask me questions. And when

16:05

I could show him in the Bible,

16:08

what the Bible said, he would say, Oh,

16:11

I don't believe that. And he

16:14

started letting things go. They stopped praying to

16:16

Mary. They stopped doing no

16:18

Venus because much of the Catholic Church,

16:21

they feel like you need assistance to pray. You

16:23

need to go to Mary or you need to

16:25

go to one of the saints. I

16:28

used to tell St. Joseph to pray for my husband

16:30

all day long because I couldn't

16:33

pray for him all day long. I

16:36

prayed to St. Joseph. I mean, I did it too.

16:38

You know, that's what you're taught.

16:41

And so if you're still

16:43

doing all that stuff, then

16:47

I think in the beginning of your

16:50

walk with the Lord, you're

16:52

not going to know everything that you need to give up.

16:56

I didn't, the Holy Spirit

16:58

would show me like I

17:00

can remember saying, okay,

17:02

God, am I supposed to pray

17:04

to Mary and the saints? I

17:06

don't know. I've always done

17:09

it, but I feel like

17:11

I'm not supposed to do it anymore.

17:14

Would you show me in the scripture why

17:17

I shouldn't pray to Mary Catholic Church

17:19

says the Mary was without sin and

17:22

over a six month period, God

17:24

gave me teaching on Mary.

17:27

One of the main things is in the Magnificat

17:29

when she says my soul does

17:31

magnify the Lord and my spirit rejoices

17:33

in God, my savior. Why would she have

17:35

called him a savior if she didn't need

17:37

a savior, you know, and stuff

17:40

like that. So God, what God did is

17:42

I believed all this stuff.

17:44

I didn't know what was right or

17:46

wrong. I started reading to understand it.

17:49

And then the spirit of the Lord started

17:51

showing me in the scripture. And then it all,

17:54

it's like it all came together. And all of a

17:56

sudden I know, I

17:58

can't do that. Now

18:04

to be clear, Anna wasn't consulting other

18:06

theologians or Christian denominations outside of the

18:08

Catholic Church. She was

18:10

simply reading the Bible and asking questions.

18:13

She took Paul's words in 1

18:15

Thessalonians 5.21 to heart, which exhorts

18:17

all Christians to test

18:19

everything and hold fast to what

18:21

is good. Anna

18:24

took what was being taught in the Catholic

18:26

Church and tried to reconcile it with Scripture

18:28

and found that some of it could not

18:30

be reconciled, and therefore she concluded

18:32

it was not good and

18:35

not something that she wanted to hold fast

18:37

to. In fact, Anna decided

18:39

that the best course of action

18:41

was actually to leave the Catholic

18:44

Church, but Anna was about

18:46

to run into a roadblock, namely

18:48

her husband, Larry. More

18:51

on that after the break. Three

18:55

times a week, I get my news

18:57

from the pour over today, which in

18:59

nine minutes or less gives me the

19:01

entire day's news and saves me from

19:03

endless doom scrolling. They hit the highlights

19:05

and then offer a Christian perspective and

19:07

a relevant piece of Scripture, which

19:10

helps me remember to keep a Christ-focused outlook

19:12

on whatever I hear in the news. And

19:15

we already know that 2024 is going

19:17

to be crazy with a presidential election

19:19

in America and ongoing wars in Ukraine

19:21

and Israel and who knows what's even

19:23

going on with the global economy. In

19:26

the midst of a tough, divisive year,

19:28

I'm grateful to have the pour over

19:30

keeping me informed of current events, but

19:32

also rooted in Christ. I've

19:34

been faithfully consuming the pour over three times

19:37

every week for the last four years, and

19:39

I think you'll find it helpful to you. And the

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best part? It's free. It doesn't cost

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to their email newsletter, which has

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the exact same content at thepourover.org.

19:55

Again, that's thepourover.org. Have

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21:24

Compel. Anna

21:32

Chatelaine felt like she was at a

21:34

crossroads between Scripture and the Catholic Church.

21:37

She struggled to reconcile doctrines like

21:39

Mary's intercession, purgatory, or the role

21:42

of the Eucharist with the Bible.

21:45

And one thing was for certain,

21:47

the Bible explicitly taught that Christ

21:49

was the sole mediator between humanity

21:51

and God the Father. Not a

21:53

priest, dead saints, and certainly not Mary. But

21:56

that, along with so many other teachings from the Bible, were

21:59

at odds with the Bible. with the teachings

22:01

in the Catholic Church. So

22:03

finally Anna told her husband that it didn't make

22:05

sense for her to remain Catholic, but

22:08

his response was not what she'd

22:10

hoped for. I

22:12

was disconnected in my

22:15

heart and mind, but

22:17

when I told my husband, I

22:19

think I would like to leave the Catholic Church

22:21

because what they say doesn't have

22:23

to do with the Scripture. And he said, you

22:27

will not leave the Catholic Church. He said,

22:29

we have two daughters we're raising. I don't

22:31

want confusion in this house. And so

22:33

he told me I could not leave. Well,

22:37

interestingly, one of the first

22:39

lessons God taught me was

22:42

submission, which was really not in

22:45

my vocabulary. But

22:47

in Ephesians, it says that the wife is

22:49

to submit to her husband and all things,

22:52

that he is her head and that Christ

22:54

is his head. And I came

22:58

to understand that to submit

23:00

to my husband was

23:02

actually to submit to the Lord. Now

23:04

you don't submit in things that are

23:07

sinful, but I'm talking about just

23:09

ordinary things of life. You

23:11

have disagreement. I would

23:13

want people to understand that submission doesn't

23:15

mean that a woman does not

23:17

have an opinion. It doesn't mean that

23:19

a woman is not her husband's helper. It

23:22

means that that woman, God gave

23:25

that woman to that man to

23:27

help him and to

23:29

bring clarity about things. I mean,

23:32

you need to have communication and

23:34

stuff. But when the rubber

23:36

hits the road, if

23:39

he decides something that's

23:41

not what you want,

23:43

that in submission,

23:46

you surrender to that and

23:48

then God is responsible for what

23:50

happens after that. Do

23:52

they make bad decisions? Oh yes, they do.

23:55

Oh yes, they do. But my trust, what

23:57

God was showing me was my trust was

23:59

not in a man, my trust

24:01

was in him. Because you have

24:03

to die to yourself. You

24:05

have to die to yourself to live

24:07

in submission. It takes more strength to

24:10

live in submission than it does to get your

24:12

own way. I'll just tell you that. And

24:15

so God taught me or showed

24:18

me or spoke to my heart

24:21

that I needed to submit

24:24

to my husband. And

24:26

I'm going, okay, he's not a believer.

24:28

You know, you think that lets you

24:30

off the hook. It doesn't let

24:32

you off the hook. Submission is

24:35

hard. It rubs against the

24:37

flesh. So when my husband

24:39

said he did not want me to leave

24:41

the Catholic Church from what

24:43

God had been showing me in the scriptures, I

24:46

said, okay, okay, well,

24:48

I'll stay. My heart's not

24:50

there. For Anna,

24:52

the teaching in Ephesians 5.22 was

24:55

pretty clear. God asked

24:57

Anna to submit to her husband, not

24:59

because her husband or any other husband was

25:02

perfect and not because the

25:04

Bible demands blind obedience from wives

25:06

or treats women as second-class spiritual

25:08

citizens, but because the

25:10

husband and wife relationship is a

25:13

reflection of the relationship between Christ

25:15

and the church. In

25:17

fact, Ephesians 5 verse 24 says

25:19

verbatim. Now, as the

25:21

church submits to Christ, so

25:24

also wives are to submit to

25:26

their husbands in everything. And

25:29

even though submission would be difficult

25:31

and wasn't what Anna preferred, she

25:33

still resolved to do just that

25:35

because that's what the Bible taught. But

25:38

Anna still longed for community, a place where

25:40

she could talk about the Bible with others

25:43

who were just as committed to seeking out

25:45

the truth as she was. And

25:47

as she prayed toward that end,

25:49

God opened another door. Interestingly,

25:53

the way God works things out, shortly

25:56

after I became involved with a group

25:58

of women called Women a glow. It

26:01

was a charismatic group of women

26:03

over the United States. It was

26:06

like Jesus was the center of

26:08

everything. Our worship was

26:10

viewed and we just would meet

26:12

at a restaurant or at a, you

26:15

know, just some room, meeting room that people

26:17

would have some place, you know, these women

26:19

were very well organized and

26:21

like say the worship was exquisite and

26:23

then they would teach us. Keep

26:25

in mind now, I had no teachings

26:27

about Jesus other than

26:30

the little bit of stuff that I was, you know,

26:32

was getting. So I was going

26:34

to this women's a glow and my husband was okay with

26:36

me going to that. He told me he just

26:38

didn't want me to go, you know,

26:40

overboard. And so I

26:43

said, okay. So I started going to

26:45

this thing a few weeks

26:47

before I had asked my husband,

26:49

I had said, look,

26:53

I would like to teach a Bible study. Now

26:56

I'm saved five years. You know

26:58

how much you know in five years, not much. Okay.

27:03

It was like I couldn't stand it. I had whatever

27:06

I knew I needed to share. And

27:09

so I asked him, I said, would you mind if I

27:11

teach a Bible study? And he goes, if

27:13

you wanted to teach a Bible study, you should have come

27:16

become a nun. And I go, okay. Well,

27:18

I wasn't called to be a nun. So

27:20

I just put that to rest. Well,

27:23

a few weeks later, one of

27:25

the gals from women's a glow said,

27:28

Anna, I've been praying about this and

27:30

I I'm asking you to become

27:33

one of our Bible study teachers. And

27:35

I said, Oh, ho ho ho ho. And

27:37

in women's a glow, you had

27:40

to have your husband's okay before you did

27:42

anything. And I said, Oh, he's not

27:45

going to say, he's not going to say, yes. He just told me,

27:47

you know what I just said. And

27:49

so she came back to me after,

27:51

and she says, Anna, I feel the

27:54

Lord said to me, he was opening a door

27:56

for you. You're even going to walk through it

27:58

or not. But he's so good. opening the

28:00

door and I go, oh. So

28:04

I started praying and asking

28:06

God to make an opportunity for

28:08

my husband and I to have

28:11

a conversation where he could

28:13

hear my heart and

28:16

that he would listen. And

28:20

one morning after we had

28:22

breakfast, we're sitting in our den and

28:24

it was like I knew this is the time.

28:27

And I said to him, you know, Larry,

28:30

I said, I

28:32

feel like God is calling

28:34

me to teach the scripture. I've been

28:36

offered to teach through women aglow. He

28:38

was familiar with what that was. And

28:41

I said, it wouldn't be here in the

28:44

house. It would be, you know, another

28:46

gal's house. And it would

28:48

just be once a week. I would only have to, because

28:50

he did not want anything I did with church

28:52

to override my commitment

28:55

to the family. And

28:57

he held on that till the end. I

28:59

said, they've invited me to teach and I

29:02

would really like to do that. And

29:05

he says, I think that

29:07

will be okay. And

29:09

like, I can only tell you, I was

29:11

totally shocked. You know, little

29:13

minor miracles in your life. That was

29:16

a little minor miracle in my life

29:18

because he gave me

29:20

the okay. That's an issue of submission. If

29:22

he'd have said no, I wouldn't have done it.

29:26

The interesting thing that happened, the

29:28

first study that I did for

29:31

women's aglow, they announced there

29:33

was going to be a study and I show up

29:35

and these women come around the table. It

29:37

was in a women's house, you know, and you sit around the table.

29:40

They were all Catholic. If

29:42

I wouldn't have still been in the Catholic church, they

29:44

wouldn't have come back. But

29:47

they came because I was Catholic. They

29:49

were able to hear truth,

29:53

receive it. And I

29:55

think we started out with five or

29:58

six ladies. I'm gonna say like five ladies. And

30:01

all but two got saved.

30:04

All but two got saved. And

30:06

one of those, I think she was

30:08

saved, she got saved through the Catholic

30:10

Charismatic moment and Jesus was everything to

30:13

her. She was not so much into

30:15

the ritual. But anyway, so I

30:17

always said, you know, sometimes when God wants

30:19

you to do things, he has a higher

30:22

purpose than you can understand. And

30:26

I think his purpose was to expose these women.

30:28

And that Bible study went on to be a

30:30

whole lot of ladies. We were

30:32

packing the ladies' den, you know. And

30:35

I started in 1982 and I'm

30:37

still teaching Bible study. So

30:39

it's been like 40

30:41

years, something like that. Time

30:44

went on. Their daughters eventually grew up,

30:46

moved out and started families of their own.

30:49

And now that Anna has fulfilled her husband's

30:51

desire to keep Catholicism as a source of

30:53

stability for their family while the daughters had

30:55

still been at home, Larry

30:58

now supported her decision to leave the

31:00

Catholic Church, although he wasn't going to

31:02

join her. Anna began

31:04

attending a non-Catholic church for the very

31:06

first time and quickly plugged in with

31:08

their women's ministry. Many

31:11

of the women that Anna met had spouses just like

31:13

hers who were resistant to professing

31:15

Christ as their Savior. As

31:18

Anna navigated the delicate balance of honoring

31:20

her husband as her earthly leader, while

31:23

ultimately placing Christ at the forefront of her

31:25

life, she guided others through

31:27

their own journeys of respectful submission

31:29

and spiritual obedience. But

31:31

as God worked in the marriages of the women that

31:33

she mentored, Anna couldn't help but

31:36

notice that her husband, Larry, was

31:38

still just the same. There was

31:40

no softness of heart, no come to

31:42

Jesus moment. He was just Catholic.

31:46

Go to Mass. Go home. No

31:48

interest in digging deeper into any kind

31:50

of spiritual conversation. It was

31:53

a stark contrast to how God was changing

31:55

the hearts of the other husbands her friends

31:57

had. Anna began to fear

31:59

that maybe she was doing something

32:01

wrong. And

32:04

so like I say, I could minister to women, but

32:06

for me personally in my walk with

32:08

the Lord at that time, like say my husband and

32:10

I hit a rough patch, which a lot of people

32:13

do, I went to the

32:15

Lord with that and I started reading

32:18

and studying First Peter, the book of

32:20

First Peter. And

32:23

First Peter talks about, you

32:25

know, suffering for doing the

32:27

right thing and that Jesus

32:30

suffered and did not, he

32:32

didn't respond, he wasn't, didn't defend

32:34

himself. And then he says in

32:37

chapter three, lives in the same way.

32:39

Okay. So I'm learning enough about Bible

32:41

study that I'm going, okay, in the

32:44

same way. What does this mean? This

32:46

means this is how Jesus faced opposition.

32:48

This is how Jesus faced being misunderstood.

32:51

This is how Jesus faced

32:53

hurt and rejection. This is how he

32:55

faced that. And then it

32:57

says, and who knows that

32:59

perhaps your husband would be won by

33:01

your gentle and quiet spirit, which

33:04

is of great worth in God's eyes. I

33:07

got ahold of that. I got ahold

33:09

of that. And so

33:11

I was able to, to the grace

33:13

of God, no, not perfectly, please hear

33:15

me, not perfectly. I

33:18

was able to live my life

33:21

out of a more

33:23

gentle and quiet spirit,

33:26

not rise to the occasion

33:28

of arguments or stand on

33:30

my rights. And then

33:32

I was getting teaching at that time here and teaching

33:34

that time, when you

33:36

surrender to Christ, you lay down your rights. You

33:39

don't have any rights. They belong to Jesus.

33:41

You were dead and now you're alive. And

33:44

so you belong to him. You

33:47

have surrendered your rights. So

33:49

I had to live my life out of what

33:51

the scripture said because I had

33:53

laid down my rights to do it the way

33:56

I wanted to. It's hard

33:58

sometimes, but it's actually. actually kind of

34:00

comforting because it's like you have this

34:02

these boundaries around you and their boundaries

34:04

that God put You know

34:06

my husband I prayed

34:09

for him for 36 years.

34:12

In fact, I'll tell you interestingly,

34:15

I told you I was a reader and I

34:17

used to read all these books about Getting

34:20

your husband saved. Okay, just I

34:23

mean and they have a plethora of them

34:25

out there. So I Would

34:28

read all these books and I would come away so discouraged

34:32

because I go Okay, what am

34:34

I doing wrong these women they

34:37

prayed they asked God they changed

34:39

up a little bit and then all

34:41

of a sudden Their husband gets saved.

34:43

I'm into this a pretty long time

34:45

and he's not getting saved And

34:49

so I quit reading those

34:51

books and I tell women don't read

34:53

those books You're gonna get discouraged because

34:56

you may have to be in it for the long haul Actually

35:00

what it is. It's surrendering my will to

35:02

God Not to a man

35:05

So can you live submitted to a

35:07

man who's not saved? Yeah

35:11

There was a tension building up on

35:14

the one hand Anna found that she was able

35:16

to be an instrument for God and reach the

35:18

Lives of many women but on

35:20

the other she felt like she was failing to

35:22

make an impact on the one life She cared

35:25

the most about her husband Larry and

35:27

this had now been going on for decades But

35:30

what Anna didn't know was that while

35:32

God was working on her heart of

35:34

surrender God was quietly

35:36

working in Larry's heart, too more

35:40

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39:08

compelled. Welcome

39:17

back to compelled. It's probably hard

39:19

for most of us to imagine the endurance

39:21

it takes to pray for someone fervently for

39:24

years and only see minimal

39:26

results, but that's just what Anna

39:28

had done. And eventually,

39:30

after 30 years, Larry

39:33

began to open up. There

39:35

came a point where he

39:37

started asking me questions, you know,

39:40

questions about God and stuff.

39:42

And I would say things like, okay,

39:44

do you want me to give you an answer?

39:48

Are you going to be willing to sit there and listen?

39:51

Because this answer is going to be a little

39:53

long or this or that. It was

39:55

long. He'd go, no, no, not right now.

39:59

But then I noticed that. noticed that when I

40:01

was going to church and I'd come home,

40:04

he had been watching some of these preachers

40:06

on television and he'd say, I've been listening

40:08

to such and such. Is he any good?

40:10

And I'd go, don't watch him. Or

40:14

yeah, he's really good. And

40:16

so he would listen and I'd come

40:18

home and he would

40:21

talk to me about what he was learning on

40:23

there. So I would

40:25

talk to him about Jesus and

40:27

salvation and not beating him

40:29

over the head with it because you just can't

40:31

do that to a person, I don't think. You

40:33

have to be very sensitive to

40:36

the Holy Spirit. He continued

40:38

to do that, but the question

40:40

he would always ask me, which was very

40:42

telling to me, anybody we knew who

40:44

died, he would say, where do you

40:47

think they went? And

40:49

I would say, if they

40:51

trusted in Jesus as

40:53

their savior, they went to heaven. If

40:56

they didn't, they didn't. And

40:59

he would ask me that about every single

41:01

person that we knew who died, where

41:03

do you think they are? I don't

41:05

know. I don't know their heart. I

41:08

can only tell you if they were trusting

41:10

Jesus, they're in heaven. And

41:12

his brother died and

41:15

his brother wasn't a believer. And

41:18

there were other issues there. And he

41:20

would say to me, where

41:22

do you think my brother went? And I'd give him the

41:24

same answer. I think

41:26

it impacted him,

41:28

impacted him to think that it

41:31

was like when your brother dies, that's like

41:33

a real thing,

41:35

you know, just real death

41:38

is like real. It's one thing, your parents

41:40

die. It's one thing. But when your siblings,

41:42

it's like, I think he faced, he

41:45

faced life and death, if you would say it like

41:47

that. I started noticing him

41:50

talking about God more, listening

41:53

to things on television. And

41:56

so we got to the point where I'd listen to

41:58

them with him too, that way I could. could

42:00

say, oh, don't listen to that. That's

42:02

not right. But for whatever

42:04

reason, he trusted what I would say

42:06

about that because I always did tell

42:09

God, God, please save him, but don't

42:11

make me his teacher. But

42:14

somewhat, that's kind of what happened, but

42:16

it wasn't from my choice. There

42:18

was a change in

42:21

his attitudes and

42:24

his relationship with me

42:26

and his more understanding

42:29

about things about God. And

42:31

like I say, asking me

42:34

a lot of questions and

42:36

I saw him change under that. I

42:38

watched him. God make him into,

42:40

he was a very forceful man, which

42:43

was good. I needed that because I

42:45

would have steamrolled him if he wasn't.

42:49

But he became gentler. He

42:51

became, you know, there's

42:53

something when you're married to

42:55

an unbeliever that the thing that's the

42:58

most important to you in your life, which is Jesus and

43:01

the kingdom of God, you can't

43:03

share that with the person

43:05

that means the most to you

43:07

in life that you're one with in

43:10

marriage. And so I don't

43:13

know, it's, there's a loneliness there

43:15

or a sadness. I think that's

43:17

sadness is probably a better word.

43:20

But then there came a point when

43:24

I started to have a sense of

43:26

more unity, unity

43:29

in that area,

43:31

you know, about God. He was

43:33

open. He was so open.

43:36

Now I used to say to him something

43:38

about like, he never was a reader. He

43:40

didn't read. The only thing he read was

43:43

instruction manuals and he

43:45

never did read the scriptures. He never

43:47

did read, but I would

43:49

say to him, well, do

43:51

you pray? And he goes,

43:53

he goes, I pray a lot more

43:56

than you know. And he said, listen.

44:00

I'm a different person than you are. My

44:02

relationship with God is going to look different

44:04

than yours. But Jesus

44:06

Christ is my Savior. Can't

44:08

get any clearer than that. After

44:13

36 years of

44:15

steadfast prayer and patience, Anna

44:18

saw her husband declare that Jesus Christ

44:20

was king in his life.

44:24

But in the background of this season of joy,

44:26

Larry had also been diagnosed

44:29

with pulmonary fibrosis, which

44:31

doesn't have a very long life expectancy.

44:34

And although Larry told Anna where he

44:36

had placed his faith, he

44:38

still maintained his private nature. But

44:40

the gravity of his diagnosis weighed heavily

44:43

on their children, especially their

44:45

oldest daughter, who was a born-again

44:47

Christian, but who wasn't so sure

44:49

about her father's salvation. But

44:52

as their daughter pressed in, Larry

44:54

said something that Anna never expected

44:57

to hear. She

45:01

was very concerned about his salvation because

45:04

he didn't talk about it. And

45:06

he would say things to me like,

45:08

that's a very private thing for

45:10

me. Now, I know that Christianity

45:13

is not private, okay? But I'm

45:15

not going to be changing his thinking in

45:17

a minute, you know? But he

45:20

says, I just don't, you know, I just keep that to

45:23

myself. And she would

45:26

ask him, every time she'd

45:28

come over, and she came over quite a lot, Daddy,

45:31

have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior? Are

45:34

you saved? And he says, what's

45:37

Maddie? You don't think I'm saved? You

45:41

think I could save myself? He says, I know

45:43

I can't save myself. I know I need a

45:46

Savior. So he got

45:48

saved. And we talked about

45:50

it quite a lot when he was kind of

45:52

near to dying and stuff like that. And so

45:54

even though he didn't go to church, I'm confident

45:56

that he had accepted Jesus. And I just, I

45:58

don't know, I don't know. used to tell him, I used

46:01

to say, you're going to have to, how are

46:03

you going to explain it to Jesus when he

46:05

says, Larry, why didn't I have a C

46:07

in church? You

46:12

might be sorry then that he didn't

46:14

go to church. And he goes,

46:17

oh, well, but you know, what are you going

46:19

to do? You know, so I didn't, I really

46:21

never pushed him. I never pushed him to go

46:23

to church. I never pushed him to believe.

46:27

I just felt like first

46:29

Peter said, if I lived with

46:31

a gentle and quiet spirit, that

46:34

perhaps he would be saved. And

46:37

the sweet thing, and I say this

46:39

with, with

46:41

a humility, uh, because he said to

46:44

me, I just

46:46

wanted to tell you that, uh, we

46:49

were talking about Jesus and he says, and I

46:51

just want you to know that I am saved.

46:53

And and he says, it's

46:56

because of you because I

46:58

watched your life. And

47:00

he said, um, and I'm

47:02

grateful for that. Of course,

47:04

I told him, no, no, I didn't save you.

47:07

The spirit of the Lord is the one who

47:09

saved you, Larry. He said, yeah, but I wouldn't

47:11

have known about any of that. It wouldn't have

47:13

been for you. And so

47:15

I just took that was very humbling

47:18

to me, but

47:20

also it said to me, women,

47:23

do what the scripture says. Cause how do

47:25

you know what God's going to do? You

47:28

know, and I got to tell you praying 36 years

47:30

for something's a long time. You

47:33

know, you could tend to get discouraged, but

47:36

I didn't because I, I

47:38

really wanted my husband to

47:41

know Jesus, Jesus deserved it. Not he

47:43

didn't deserve it. Jesus deserved his life.

47:45

Jesus died on the cross for that.

47:47

It says in

47:49

Ephesians, wives, see

47:52

to it that you respect

47:54

your husband. If

47:57

you don't respect your husband, there's

47:59

a small. chance that he's going

48:01

to come to the Lord, because he's not going to

48:03

want to be the kind of Christian you are. And

48:06

so if I can give you

48:08

one word, you love that man,

48:10

and you respect him, and you

48:12

treat him with respect in front

48:14

of your children, and then

48:16

you trust everything else to God, whether

48:19

it takes 15 minutes or

48:21

36 years. Anna,

48:23

thanks for sharing. You're welcome. What

48:30

jumps out to me about Anna's story is

48:33

her honest and humble approach to reading God's

48:35

word. It's a reminder that

48:37

God has clearly laid out in the

48:39

Bible what we need to live lives

48:41

of faithful obedience. Anna

48:43

surrendered herself to obeying what God taught

48:46

through the Bible and found an uncomplicated

48:48

faith, free of

48:50

rituals, man-made traditions, or

48:52

unnecessary spiritual intercessors. It

48:56

doesn't mean easy, and it doesn't mean certain, but

48:58

when Anna met hardships and long seasons

49:01

of prayer without seeing the changes that she

49:03

wanted to see, Scripture was

49:05

her guide, and God was faithful to

49:08

provide all that she needed, and then some.

49:11

It's hard to imagine sweeter words than

49:13

when at the end of his life,

49:15

Larry told Anna that the reason he'd

49:17

become a born-again Christian was

49:19

because of how she'd lived her life throughout their

49:21

marriage. Her example had

49:23

convinced him that the God she

49:25

followed was the one he wanted

49:27

to follow as well. God

49:30

never promises that we'll see the fruit of our earthly

49:32

labors on this side of heaven, but

49:34

in Anna's case, he graciously

49:36

gave her that short glimpse. If

49:39

you know someone who would be blessed by Anna's story,

49:41

then please take 30 seconds and send this to them.

49:44

And if you're looking for additional

49:46

resources about Catholicism, then check out

49:48

our website at compelledpodcast.com. Look up

49:50

this episode and we'll include some

49:52

resources there. Also, if

49:54

you'd like to contact Anna, you can do

49:56

so directly by emailing her. Her

49:59

email address is mema.shadolaine.icloud.com.

50:01

Again, that's

50:04

MEMA, okay,

50:06

so mema.shadolaine.icloud.com.

50:12

And if you'd like to help us create

50:14

more stories just like Anna's, then join Compelled

50:16

as a monthly partner and get access to

50:18

every episode one week early ahead of time.

50:21

Get started at

50:24

compelledpodcast.com/donate. Special thanks

50:26

to my buddy Gabriel Affant from Keylight

50:28

Marketing for filming Anna's story and

50:30

sharing it with me. Gabriel and his wife Rachel

50:33

help mid-sized companies create an online presence they're proud

50:35

of. They specialize in content

50:37

creation, social media, and video production.

50:39

And they've been a blessing to Compelled and they'd

50:42

love to bless you as well. Learn

50:44

more at keylightmarketing.com. Today's

50:47

episode was edited by Will Jackson,

50:50

story editing by Atlee Nugent, sound

50:52

engineering by Zach Thaller, and our

50:54

associate producer is my dear wife,

50:56

Sarah Hastings. By the way,

50:59

she is truly the epitome of cheerful submission.

51:01

God has taught me much through her

51:03

personal example. Thank you, Sarah. Stay

51:06

tuned for a sneak peek from our next episode

51:08

with Lee Strobel. Lee was

51:10

a committed atheist and Pulitzer-nominated

51:13

investigative journalist for the Chicago

51:15

Tribune. But when his

51:17

wife of all people became a Christian,

51:19

Lee was disgusted and set out to

51:21

prove her beliefs about Jesus to be

51:23

untrue. But along the way, he

51:26

was going to find more than

51:28

he bargained for. I'm your host, Paul Hastings,

51:30

and you've been listening to Compelled. We'll

51:33

be back with another compelling story two weeks from

51:35

now. We'll see you then. I

51:46

was an atheist. I thought the idea

51:49

of an all-powerful, all-knowing, creative universe was

51:51

just absurd on the surface of it.

51:53

Wasn't worth my time even to check

51:55

out. And so I thought it was

51:57

a crutch for the weak. it

52:00

was something that people made up to make themselves

52:02

feel better about dying. And

52:05

no, I tend to have a kind of

52:07

a skeptical gear, you know, my background's

52:09

in journalism and law, so that tend

52:11

to be my nature to question things

52:13

and to doubt things. One

52:16

last thing before I go, if you'd like to meet

52:18

up this year in 2024, I

52:21

will actually be on the road for a

52:23

few events either speaking or exhibiting at some

52:26

conferences. I am still kneeling

52:28

down all the details, but already I know

52:30

that I'll be at the Texas Homeschool Convention

52:32

in Fort Worth from April 18th through

52:35

20th, the other Texas

52:37

Homeschool Convention in Houston from May

52:39

30th through June 1st, the

52:41

Home Educators Association of Virginia

52:44

Convention in Richmond from

52:46

June 6th through 8th, and

52:48

there's also the chance that I might be

52:50

at some other events in Louisville, Kentucky and Nashville,

52:52

Tennessee later in the year, but we haven't

52:54

finalized those details yet. If you

52:56

live near any of those locations, then I'd love to

52:58

meet you. You can

53:00

also see our latest up-to-date

53:03

calendar of events at our

53:05

website compelledpodcast.com/events, and I

53:07

hope to see you there.