0:04

What's up, fungal associates? Welcome to

0:06

Completely Arbitrary, the podcast about trees

0:09

and other related topics. I

0:12

am one of your hosts, Alex Krosan.

0:14

Of course, we got Mr. Casey Clapp.

0:17

Hello, Alex Krosan. Hello, Casey Clapp.

0:19

Good to see you here today.

0:21

Happy Triozaki, Casey. Happy Triozaki to you, too.

0:24

You know what? I just learned. What did

0:26

you just learn? Nope. Never

0:28

mind. Everything's OK. All right. That's

0:32

devastating news somewhere. Yes. I thought

0:34

that I had unfortunately made an

0:36

incorrect link link. Oh, but

0:39

in fact, it had correctly linked to what I

0:41

was trying to go to. Well, wonderful. So everything's

0:43

worked out great. Wow. Good tension and release right

0:45

at the top of the episode. Exactly. Happy

0:50

Triozaki, everybody. This is, of course,

0:52

our month long exploration of

0:55

the trees of Studio Ghibli in the

0:57

films of Hayao Miyazaki. That's right. Well,

0:59

of course, last week we talked about Spirited

1:03

Away. Great film. Yes.

1:05

In the spirit world filled with all

1:07

the Kami hanging around, getting

1:09

washed. That's right. That's

1:11

what they do. And then, of course, this

1:13

week, hey, we got another

1:16

Kami case. Whoa. This one is a

1:18

specific Kami, though. This is not just

1:20

a general Kami. It's true. Yes, there

1:23

are. There are a few. There are a

1:25

few. But we talk about one big, fuzzy

1:27

Kami. Yeah, that's right. And that is my

1:30

neighbor Totoro. Now I

1:32

have a cousin named Totoro, Alex. Wow. Well,

1:34

this is not him. This is not

1:36

my cousin Totoro. Different guy. Dang it.

1:38

Your cousin is not a forest spirit.

1:41

I guess that's probably true. Yeah. Now

1:44

I have an aunt Totoro. Ah, now see. Is that

1:46

anything like this? It's a different kind of forest spirit.

1:49

Oh, OK. Yeah, yeah. But

1:51

it's also spelled differently. A-N-T. This is

1:53

my aunt Totoro. We did this. So

1:57

small. Yeah. We

1:59

did this bit before. We started recording. We did.

2:02

I forced it on you. Yeah, we're bringing it back. Yes!

2:04

That's right. We're talking about my neighbor

2:06

Totoro. That's right. This is a 1988 film. Yes.

2:11

Yeah, funny enough. This movie came out

2:15

the year I was born. That's right. Yeah,

2:17

so now everyone out there do those calculations. Beep

2:19

boop, beep boop, beep boop. That's right. In case we

2:21

get a ripe old 35 years old. I am essentially

2:24

ancient. As someone

2:26

close in my life says, I'm round up

2:28

40. Yeah,

2:30

yeah, that is how it feels. Yeah,

2:32

so there you go. Well, this story

2:35

is about two very young people. About

2:37

a four year old and a ten year old, I think. Yes,

2:39

I believe that's correct. That's, of

2:42

course, Satsuki and Mei. Two

2:46

young girls who, hey, just like the

2:49

last movie we watched, move out to

2:51

the country. Exactly. There's a

2:53

theme here. For far different reasons. Yes, yes, yes,

2:55

yes. But we're going to talk all about that

2:57

in a bit because today we're

2:59

talking about a tree, of course, as we

3:02

do every episode. Casey. That's

3:04

right. And could we have chosen any other

3:07

tree for this movie's

3:09

discussion than the camphor? Yes,

3:11

of course. It was obvious.

3:14

Everyone knew it. Yep. It's

3:16

like a character in the film. It is,

3:18

yeah. Well, literally because Todoro. That's right.

3:20

Is the spirit, the kami spirit

3:23

of this particular tree. It

3:25

doesn't necessarily, in Shinto,

3:28

there's not like, though that's a spirit

3:30

for, rather the spirit

3:32

for all these kinds of trees. They

3:34

each have their own spirit. That's right.

3:36

So Todoro, in this case, is the

3:38

spirit for this very particular giant, gigantic

3:41

camphor tree. Yeah, it is

3:43

enormous. And I want to talk about that.

3:45

But Casey, we're going to drill this into people's brains

3:47

for the next month or so. Oh, yeah. We

3:50

are moving from Patreon to

3:53

our brand new subscription-based

3:56

premium service that we're calling Tremeum.

4:00

That's right. And we want you to move with us. We want

4:02

you to live with us. We want to be roommates. That's what

4:04

we're saying. We love you. Will you marry us? Everyone

4:07

is going to save a little bit of money. We're

4:10

all going to have one gigantic kitchen and we're going

4:12

to be able to make huge meals. I make a

4:14

killer pizza. We're hoping that

4:16

we get enough people to move in where

4:18

everybody's rent is about $3. That's

4:21

what we're hoping for. Yeah. So come on

4:23

over. The water's fine. You're going to have

4:25

a great time. Tremium is of

4:27

course our new support platform, Casey.

4:30

Yes, we're moving away from Patreon. They've been very good

4:32

to us. If you are currently a patron, check

4:35

your email. We've sent you

4:37

a migration tool that is like,

4:39

it takes like 20 seconds to

4:41

switch from Patreon to our

4:44

new Tremium service. That's right. And if

4:46

you're not a Tremium member already

4:48

or a member of the Patreon, now's the time.

4:50

Now is the time. It is a

4:52

very fun thing. We have two great options.

4:54

One is the tree huggers. You get extra

4:56

content. You get access to all sorts of

4:59

stuff. And you get

5:01

ad-free listening. Yeah, baby. That's right.

5:03

Ad ad-free listening to your life

5:06

this holiday season. Wow. There

5:08

was two different kinds of ads. It's like a

5:10

Macy's commercial. Yeah, it's pretty beautiful. And

5:13

then we have our second plan, of course,

5:15

the Cone Club. The Cone Club, which you

5:17

know, you've heard about it. You wanted to be

5:19

in there for so long. You've looked at all

5:22

the photos and you've done this. I

5:25

wish I had that. Like the little boy in the Christmas

5:27

story looking at the rifle in the window. Exactly.

5:29

The Cone Club is every month

5:32

we send you in the actual

5:34

physical mailbox, your actual inbox, Cone

5:37

stickers. Yeah. These are stickers

5:39

of different conifer cones illustrated by different artists.

5:42

They're each a different style. And

5:44

they're all independent artists. So when

5:46

you're supporting Completely Arbitrary's Cone Club or

5:48

Completely Arbitrary Trimium, you're supporting not just

5:50

Casey and I, but all of these

5:53

wonderful artists we work with. It's

5:55

true. And then all the wonderful printers we work

5:57

with. Casey, one of the most exciting things is

5:59

that we're now just... doing gifted subscriptions. Yes. And

6:03

annual subscriptions. That's right, get an annual

6:05

subscription, you save 17%, which is a

6:07

pretty substantial percent. Hey, that ain't nothing,

6:09

man. It ain't nothing, it's really something.

6:11

I think that's like two free months,

6:14

essentially. It's, I think so, it's almost

6:16

there, yeah. Either way, it's worth

6:18

it, 100% of the time. Definitely.

6:20

And you can also send us messages,

6:22

do an AMA, which is at

6:24

the $6 level, I should know, and

6:26

it's just gonna be a lot of fun.

6:28

It goes straight into your streams on whatever

6:30

podcast service you use, so you don't need

6:32

to go back through here and there and

6:34

here and there. It's all in one spot.

6:36

So, it is definitely worth your time, we're

6:38

very excited about it. And you know what, we're just

6:41

gonna say, we're very excited to have you here with us.

6:43

That's right, Case. You just mean like everybody in

6:45

general. Yeah, yeah,

6:47

yeah, you guys, you guys too, you guys

6:49

too out there, who are not in the

6:51

club, it's all right, we're not exclusive. Unlike

6:54

your political handler. Like, what he

6:56

really means by that is that, just

6:59

kind of push me off stage

7:01

so you can have someone else

7:03

say the right thing. Thanks, thank

7:05

you. So go to arbitrarypod.supercast.com or

7:08

find that link on our website, you can't miss

7:10

it, if you want to support the

7:12

show and get cool rewards in

7:14

return. That's right. Casey. Alex. Camper

7:16

Tree, my neighbor Totoro, gotta happen

7:19

after a break. We will be

7:21

right back with Completely Arbitrary's Riyazaki.

7:28

Guess what? We have

7:30

a sale, running all December long, 15%

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off literally everything on our merch store,

7:36

arbitrarypod.com/merch. Casey, what can people

7:39

find there? They

7:41

can find three different t-shirts, our Douglas fir

7:43

tree shirt, our logo tree shirt, and our

7:45

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You can also find a heap of stickers and some

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code TREES. Happy

8:23

December everybody. Bye. Welcome

8:34

back to Tree-o-zaki. That's

8:37

right. Today we are talking my

8:40

neighbor Totoro and of

8:42

course we're talking the camphor tree. That's

8:45

right. It goes without saying. Scientific

8:47

name? Well, that does not go without

8:49

saying, Alex. Used to be, as

8:51

of like two minutes ago,

8:54

Cinnamomum camphora. Wow.

8:57

Yet, now that we can

8:59

update, everyone press refresh on

9:01

your computer. Yeah, there you

9:03

go. Now it is camphora

9:05

officianum, officianarum actually. Officianarum. Yeah,

9:08

I've actually had to say that a few times to

9:10

make sure I get it right. Yeah, that's a hard

9:12

one. Officianarum. So this is

9:14

kind of a funny thing because

9:16

normally you would expect that

9:20

things don't change that quickly whenever we cover

9:22

them, you know? Yeah. But

9:24

this actually happened somewhat recently,

9:26

like to the point where I'm kind of like, do

9:30

I have the right tree? Like I've had

9:32

to look back a few different times. This isn't like

9:34

20 years ago recently, is it? No, no, no, no.

9:37

This is like 2022. Wow,

9:41

like last year. Camphora

9:43

officianarum is the official scientific name

9:46

as of within the last year.

9:48

That's amazing. Yeah. And

9:51

it's accepted again because they did this genetic study,

9:53

this DNA. So they've said, ha ha, this is

9:55

over here and these over here. These are two

9:57

distinct lineages. that

10:00

are very closely related, do you know what

10:02

their next closest kin is? Hmm.

10:06

You know, Oh, uh, frogs. It

10:08

is not, in fact, frogs. That was a good, uh, that was a

10:10

good guess, though. What is it? Sassafras.

10:12

Interesting. Yes, the Sassafras tree is

10:15

a sister clade. So,

10:17

the camphor tree in

10:19

My Neighbor Totoro is

10:22

actually, at the time, it

10:25

was a completely different species. Yes,

10:27

yeah, yeah. It was considered Sinemamum.

10:29

Which is the same thing as

10:31

like cinnamon, literally cinnamon, uh, Sinemamum

10:33

vera. Interesting. Yeah, so, there

10:35

you go. Well, Casey, let's imagine that, um,

10:38

our father, uh, moved

10:42

us out to the country to be closer to a

10:44

hospital because our mom is sick. Yes. And

10:46

we, we show up at this new

10:48

house. We're very excited. Okay. Um, I'm,

10:51

I'm like really annoying and tugging at

10:53

your skirt. And we... Yeah, but

10:55

you're so cute. We go explore. We

10:58

find a humongous camphor tree. Mm-hmm.

11:01

Let's ID this tree. Uh, well, you know

11:03

what? I'm gonna start with what you see,

11:05

which is a gigantic

11:08

tree. It's massive.

11:10

You recall last week, we talked about,

11:12

um, uh, I think the term was

11:15

superfluous trees. Right. Uh,

11:17

this is a superfluous tree. Okay.

11:19

Yeah. It

11:21

grows, it is the biggest and

11:24

one of the oldest living broadleaf species

11:27

in Japan. No kidding. Yeah, so there's

11:29

conifers that get bigger and taller and

11:31

live longer. Okay. But for broadleaf species,

11:33

this is, this is the, uh, either

11:37

the organ white oak of the west

11:39

or the northwest or the

11:42

tulip poplar of the east of Japan.

11:44

Right. Man, I'm so good at metaphors

11:46

today. Shit. Basically,

11:49

it is the biggest, roundest,

11:53

biggest, tallest broadleaf tree

11:56

in Japan. Correct. Amazing.

11:58

Yeah. I mean it's

12:01

certainly represented that way in the film. It is

12:03

it like I just watched it funny enough This

12:06

morning, right? Yes. I've been I was trying to watch

12:08

it last night ended up Just having long

12:10

nice conversations with a lovely woman named Carrie and

12:12

it was just a god dang delight We love Carrie. So

12:14

by the time 12 o'clock came I was like, I were

12:16

not watching a movie Yes,

12:21

you you weren't going to watch this at

12:23

first well I had planned to just When

12:26

I was going to be able oh, I

12:28

see. Yeah, I won't say that. Okay, so

12:30

I yes It's my plan is to watch

12:32

all these because as you have we've noted

12:34

This is not a movie or

12:36

even a genre of movies that I've actually been

12:39

very familiar with. Yeah I mean, I don't watch

12:41

a lot of movies period these days, but

12:43

it's not even like of your taste. Yes.

12:45

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly But

12:48

just hard I and I appreciate you watching these

12:50

movies and I hope you're taking away something. I

12:52

very much am Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I very much

12:54

am like we talked about last week I want

12:56

to see more movies like this that tell modern

12:58

stories with a an

13:00

eye to the Spirituality

13:03

of the place. Yes. So I

13:06

am it's a great marriage. Yes So

13:10

that is the thing to see it's a huge tree.

13:12

Let it grow big They can get up to a

13:14

hundred feet tall. It's just like 30 or so meters

13:17

and the biggest one that I read about

13:19

recently is 25 feet in diameter just

13:21

over 25 feet in diameter One

13:25

oh my god, I can't I like had a hard

13:28

time wrapping my head around. Yeah in wrapping literally anything

13:30

around Yeah,

13:33

including a measuring tape like

13:35

that that is that

13:37

is that is fucking massive Oh for

13:39

context remember we talked about the Montezuma

13:41

cypress. Yeah, Mexico. Yeah, what was like

13:44

what was the Rough

13:46

diameter of that. I know it's it's kind

13:48

of like a multi-sem tree. Yeah, the rough

13:50

diameter is about 38 feet Okay,

13:53

so it's almost comparable.

13:56

Yes, it's almost it's in the same

13:58

like it's in the same here of

14:00

giant trees. Giant trees.

14:02

That's amazing. And so it's just kind of one

14:04

of those things that when you look at it, it

14:07

doesn't jump out at you as being like, aha, there's a

14:09

monolith. And it's like half

14:11

of what makes the redwoods and

14:14

sequoias so outrageously beautiful

14:16

and insane is that they look

14:18

like these huge pillars in the

14:20

ground that are 34 feet in

14:22

diameter. Totally. So

14:25

you just like, you can see them. They are huge.

14:27

They're in front of you. They're very clear and obvious.

14:29

Like, it's a column. Whereas with

14:31

the tulle tree, which is the

14:33

Montezuma cypress in Mexico down in

14:35

Oaxaca, and with the camphor tree,

14:38

they are like bulbous and they

14:40

grow in weird ways and they have these deep

14:43

furrows and they look

14:45

more like overgrown triangles that are like

14:47

kind of just moving up at this

14:49

very slow angle with all these big

14:51

bumps and burrows and things. Yeah. They're

14:54

more gnarly looking and they call back

14:56

more to like an ancient oak in

14:59

Europe or in Britain or something like

15:01

that. Yeah. You're like,

15:03

are they still alive or

15:05

have they fallen apart or what is going

15:07

on there? They look very

15:09

like storied. Yes, exactly. There's

15:12

some history in that tree. Almost like

15:14

a city. It's like a vertical city.

15:16

There's so much happening. I love that.

15:18

It's so much like visual variety. In

15:20

fact, I think I prefer the look

15:22

of a giant broadleaf tree to a

15:24

giant conifer. Yeah.

15:27

You are not alone in that. I think a lot of people

15:30

have that because it's just more complex. My friend Dan is very

15:32

much like that. Yeah. It's more

15:34

interesting. Yeah. So yeah, I

15:36

think you're right. The complexity of broadleaf trees

15:38

can be wildly more visually

15:41

rich than necessarily a conifer. Well

15:43

said. Different aesthetics probably. Yeah.

15:46

So the main thing is, of course, this is a giant tree as we've noted.

15:49

It gets also as wide

15:52

as it is tall, which I thought was

15:54

very interesting. I had never

15:56

quite known this. I haven't seen a conifer

15:59

tree. that I knowingly like was

16:01

a big one like down in LA they

16:03

have them they're planted all over the world

16:06

nowadays for better or worse they're actually

16:08

invasive in like southern Florida and Alabama

16:10

Australia they're like a scourge everyone really

16:13

wow don't come near me with that

16:15

tree interesting but they if you leave

16:17

them to let him grow in these

16:19

forests again and like the same

16:21

kind of southern area of Japan

16:24

the southern kind of mountainous area they grow

16:26

from I think about eight hundred feet or

16:28

eight hundred meters of side you can't just

16:30

say eight hundred feet or eight hundred meters

16:32

that's literally they

16:36

grow in kind of the middle elevations

16:38

so they want to be not quite

16:41

super hot but not quite super cool

16:43

and as you go further north their

16:45

elevation drops so essentially meaning they it

16:47

gets too cold at higher elevations for

16:49

them interesting like a very

16:51

warm temperate forest versus

16:54

like semi subtropical warm

16:56

kind of temperate forest is

16:58

that kind of the setting of my neighbor

17:01

Totoro? Yeah, exactly. So imagine it like if

17:04

you take the Pacific Northwest and put it

17:06

in or put the weather of the

17:08

Pacific Northwest specifically the west side where Portland

17:10

is Seattle is but you move it down

17:13

to say Central California interesting yeah yeah

17:15

okay so that would be what they are used to

17:17

so they can get gigantic not only do they get

17:19

gigantic but they also tend to like spread out and

17:21

go down if you move it down to the west

17:23

side of the area or the west side of the

17:25

area. But they also tend to like spread out and

17:27

go down if you move it wide open so the

17:29

planted street trees a lot okay and this

17:32

is my favorite part you walk into one you

17:34

go underneath this big canopy you can hear from

17:36

miles away you will

17:38

see the bark and

17:40

Alex I love this bark. Tell me

17:43

about the bark wow I cannot believe we're starting

17:45

with the bark. Starting with the bark I'm imagining

17:47

right now you're walking into the tree you

17:49

you have to crawl through a little tunnel of

17:51

shrubs and then walk through the tree. And then

17:53

when you actually get underneath those

17:55

shrubs and you get to the base of the stream

17:57

you look up then you're like oh my God. The

18:00

first thing you're going to see is the bark and these

18:02

craggly branches coming out and coming down and around. So

18:05

those branches in the trunk are

18:07

covered in a bark

18:09

that looks like a mixture between kind of

18:12

normal semi-subtropical kind of tree bark,

18:14

like kind of gray, kind of

18:17

brown, nothing too fancy, nothing too

18:19

special. And then if you

18:21

let it get to a certain size and like

18:23

don't rub it off or have anything like be

18:25

growing any moss on it, it

18:27

looks like sassafras bark, which

18:30

is one of my favorite barks of

18:32

all trees. Is that that kind of

18:34

camouflage look? It's not quite camouflage. It's

18:36

more like you have long, skinny-ish

18:39

strips, like maybe

18:42

about an inch wide, skinny,

18:44

squarish, rectangular strip that is

18:46

broken off by very

18:49

thin, narrow furrows

18:51

between them. It's kind

18:54

of like they're like a bunch of square

18:56

puzzle pieces that are just like set up

18:58

like you have hardwood floors here. It's kind

19:00

of like hardwood floors where no edges line

19:02

up and then they just go up the

19:05

tree. And then they curve around and

19:07

they have these very flat tops that

19:09

are almost like they

19:11

look like they've

19:13

been polished, but they haven't been and they're kind

19:15

of dull. They just look very smooth. So it's

19:17

like a smooth plate with rough edges next to

19:20

a smooth plate with rough edges that follows the

19:22

contours of the tree all the way up. They're

19:25

maybe broken up every three

19:28

or four inches or some are short,

19:30

some are long. It just creates

19:32

this amazing pattern. Wow. That's

19:34

amazing. It almost sounds like this is

19:36

similar to hardwood floor like bricklaying or something. Yeah,

19:38

yeah, yeah. It's like mortar in between. Totally. That's

19:41

exactly a great visualization in my opinion.

19:44

It sounds gorgeous. So I just love it.

19:46

It's like a kind of chestnut brown to

19:48

gray. I just think they're so, so

19:50

lovely, especially because they get so big. Yeah.

19:52

They get everywhere more and more. So you

19:55

mentioned that this effect,

19:57

this phenomenon only happens

20:00

with trees that are aged and not fucked

20:02

with. Yeah, they kind of get more so.

20:05

But then once it reaches a certain age,

20:07

all those kind of break up even more,

20:10

so they kind of lose that. So it's

20:12

kind of like the middle-aged trees that really

20:14

show off this gorgeous pattern. Cool. Yeah.

20:17

In fact, some of the sassafras that Hoyt

20:19

Arboretum here in Portland show the same thing.

20:21

Again, they're very closely related trees. So you

20:23

see them growing directly next to each other

20:25

and you're like, oh yeah, I can

20:28

see just from the bark that you guys are closely related.

20:30

Yeah, okay, interesting. Yeah, so I just think it's

20:32

a good place to start looking at the bark.

20:35

I love starting with the bark. You

20:38

know it's, to me, the bark is sort

20:40

of overlooked a lot. It is, yeah. So

20:43

a good bark is like, ooh, good start. And

20:46

hey, again, because we're plugging things we're doing now,

20:49

I'm writing a tree book. One

20:51

of the things I have tried to or

20:53

am trying to elicit is when

20:55

you start looking at a tree, start

20:57

from the tree and then get closer and then like, what do

20:59

you see next? And I took

21:01

this from a book by Ronald Lanner who he looks

21:03

at a tree, he says, from afar, then

21:06

he says from underneath it, then he says in the

21:08

hand. Wow, cool. Yeah, and that's how he describes it.

21:10

So I'm kind of like, okay, yeah, that's the

21:12

way that someone would approach a tree. So

21:14

if you are a small four-year-old girl

21:17

running through a hole in the forest floor and

21:19

then you pop out and you see this giant

21:21

tree, or maybe you're with your dad and your

21:23

sister and you walk around and you're like, oh my God, there

21:25

it is. Look at that thing. That's the first thing

21:27

you're going to see is the bark. Hell yeah. Then

21:30

you're going to reach up and you're going to grab one of these

21:32

adorable little leaves. I'm excited about the leaves. This is

21:34

one of the things that actually helps set apart cinnamomum

21:36

from camphorra is that they

21:39

are alternately arranged around the

21:41

twig. As opposed to oppositely

21:43

arranged? Actually sub-opposite in this

21:46

case. Yes. I've never

21:48

heard of this. It's kind of, it's

21:50

not rare necessarily, but it's just so

21:52

less common. What does it mean? It

21:54

means instead of having trees or rather, instead

21:57

of having your, it means

21:59

instead of having your leaves. and therefore your buds

22:02

lining up either opposite each other along the

22:04

twig at that that's called a node so

22:06

wherever you see a leaf and a bud

22:08

come out because a bud is what tells

22:10

you there's a leaf there yeah the leaf

22:12

is what tells you there's a bud there

22:14

so you kind of know which one is

22:16

which they're self-defining towards each other whoa man

22:18

if you have them both coming from the

22:20

same node and they're going off to the

22:22

left and right that's opposite yeah if they

22:24

are offset as they go down the twig

22:27

that is alternate yeah if they are just

22:29

not quite alternate and they're just

22:31

a little bit offset to where

22:33

you're kind of like well they're

22:35

overlapping to the point where it's not

22:37

very clear that they are alternate or

22:40

opposite but one is like clearly

22:42

just a little bit off just a

22:44

little bit off like little steps

22:46

yeah exactly wow that is cinnamomum okay

22:48

cinnamomum is far more specific to

22:50

having those offset sub opposite

22:52

sub opposite to alternate so sometimes

22:55

they are very much alternate

22:57

sometimes they're sub opposite which means

22:59

they're just not quite one or

23:01

the other speaking of you know

23:03

sassafras I know that the

23:05

sassafras leaves have a lot of variety

23:07

in their sort of growth so

23:10

it's maybe a dead end

23:13

to make a comparison here

23:15

but of the

23:17

buds being you know sub opposite to

23:19

opposite yeah it might just be that

23:21

this is a very variable kind of

23:24

group of plan yeah yeah lauraceae I

23:26

should say they are in the laurel

23:28

family very fluid yeah they just kind

23:30

of like whatever man sometimes I'm this

23:32

sometimes I'm that yeah man that's just

23:34

the way it grows don't put a

23:36

sassafras in the box and put a

23:38

canfer in a box although if you

23:40

make a box out of canfer that'll

23:42

keep the moths away Wow as your

23:44

your grandmother used to say great great

23:46

transition thank you Alex well what are

23:48

the leaves what are the leaves look

23:50

like the leaves are funny little

23:52

triangle I should not try and go there

23:54

they're rhombus shaped plebeians

23:57

out there that's a diamond

23:59

Wow Anyway, I can't believe you

24:01

didn't know that yeah, that's pretty embarrassing. I was

24:03

saying that to myself. Oh, I thought you're talking

24:05

to Sorry

24:08

guys, well I was in a way Oh Wow,

24:10

that's meta dude. Cool Um,

24:13

so the leaves are they're kind of

24:15

these diamond shaped glossy green leaves. They're

24:17

evergreen so you're always going to see

24:19

them around all the time and They

24:22

when they first emerge instead of being

24:24

red like the sikaki we talked about

24:27

last week. They emerge like a bright

24:29

green Point where if you

24:31

go and take like an aerial shot during

24:33

the springtime, it's like It

24:35

looks like the trees like glowing. Wow.

24:37

They're put out their new leaf. I

24:39

do love that new leaf shine It

24:41

is so nice, isn't it? Because they're

24:44

like they're also like, um Less

24:47

glossy but also more glossy. I don't even

24:49

know how to describe it. They got it

24:51

all Yeah, they just look brand new and

24:53

yeah soft and fresh. Everything is just amped

24:56

up one level. Yeah So that

24:58

is uh How they start? Okay

25:00

as they age they become a little

25:02

bit more dark green with a lighter

25:04

green underneath And they have

25:06

more of a yellow Vein

25:08

pattern and the vein pattern is interesting

25:11

because it comes out kind of in

25:13

threes Where you have one vein coming

25:15

up down the middle and then you have another one that

25:17

goes up And out to the left

25:19

and another one that goes up to the right

25:21

But they appear like they have

25:24

three veins like three main veins I see

25:26

now I say appear because if you look

25:28

closely you'll notice there are there are veins

25:30

kind of all over the place There's some

25:32

a little bit lower and then they kind

25:34

of split off a little bit But

25:37

at first glance they look like they

25:39

just have three main veins You know

25:41

the veins look like the the growth

25:44

pattern of a of a tree like

25:46

in wintertime. Yes Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they

25:48

have that main stock, but then there's

25:51

there's very defined kind of side veins

25:53

Yeah, yeah, so that is another

25:55

classic thing for the camphor tree.

25:58

Uh, and then they have this nice acumen it takes They

26:00

kind of come out at this very low

26:02

angle which is called cuneate is the term

26:04

which is the base of the leaf Looks

26:06

like a wedge Wow, so it's a wedge

26:08

shape but I honestly hate that description because

26:10

Like I just don't imagine the base of

26:12

a leaf as a wedge because the wedge

26:14

generally doesn't have a stem coming out of

26:16

it Yeah, it's kind of a it just

26:18

doesn't it's not intuitive to me It just

26:20

does it just mean like 45 degree angles

26:22

exactly or less so sometimes they're very flat

26:24

Sometimes they're a little bit more closer to

26:26

90 Okay But for the most part that's

26:29

what makes them look like diamonds is that

26:31

they come out at this very low angle

26:33

And then they just come right back to

26:35

the tip interesting they end up creating this

26:37

diamond shape Okay, and of

26:39

course they grow out alternately range down

26:41

the stem the stem is yellow And

26:43

this is another fun thing their buds

26:45

are like a yellowish red

26:48

So I'll show you a picture Alex. Yeah,

26:50

Casey's flipping his computer. Oh, wow Yeah, they're

26:52

a little red like a little they won't

26:55

look like berries. They kind of do. Yeah,

26:57

they're just this bright red Pomegranate

26:59

seeds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's perfect That's

27:01

exactly it and they pop out

27:03

so they kind of really like have yellow stems red

27:05

buds green leaves Wow, I have like these fun colors

27:08

to them. I love that and then to add to

27:10

it. They have terminal panicles

27:12

of Flowers, I

27:14

know what this means tell us at the end

27:16

of the branch. Yeah for the twig rather Out

27:20

of them out of the middle of the twig

27:22

grows the flower. Yes, it's a panicle which means

27:24

that it it's like a It's

27:27

like a it's like a thing

27:29

that hangs down. Oh So

27:32

close like a thing that hangs up. Yeah

27:37

With flowers coming out of the sides of yeah,

27:39

exactly So you have a this is how I've

27:41

kind of remembered this so you have a spike

27:43

a spike is just like one single stem That

27:46

has flower on it on it on it

27:48

on it Then you can have a

27:50

race scene which is the same thing except each

27:52

one of those flowers is on a little stem

27:54

a little spike itself with a bunch of flowers

27:56

at the end of it. Well a panicle is

27:58

the same where each one of those is

28:01

then also broken up. Oh my God. So a

28:03

spike or a raceme is a spike with spikes

28:05

on it. A panicle is a raceme with racemes

28:07

on it. It's wheels within wheels. This is exactly

28:09

what it is. It's a lot of fun. Yeah,

28:11

don't worry about it. There's going to be a

28:14

lovely example. You'll be able to look up one

28:16

of these days, 2025. I

28:18

will say the thing that you just described to

28:20

me just

28:22

did not stick at all. It's

28:25

one of those things you don't know. Like the

28:27

terms don't mean anything. Oh geez. Flowers are really

28:29

like I've learned a lot about trees over the

28:31

last three years. Flowers

28:34

are just like a whole different thing. They really are. Yeah,

28:37

you're feeling this too with

28:39

your book. I'm learning more right now as

28:42

we speak. I'm trying to make sure A, I get

28:44

it right and B, that I know

28:46

it because you don't want to do something

28:48

that you are not familiar with. I

28:50

don't want to get up here and spout about something

28:52

and then immediately be like, I don't know what I

28:55

just said. Yeah. That doesn't help. So,

28:57

some of the things that we're not so familiar

28:59

with, let's talk about my neighbor Totoro. Let's talk

29:02

about my neighbor Totoro. Actually, we

29:04

should say that more specifically, we're

29:06

going to talk about Kami. Yes.

29:09

And we mentioned Kami last

29:11

episode. I don't know if we

29:14

ever like really explicitly defined what a Kami

29:16

is. We didn't really, but we have done

29:18

it before when we talked about other parts

29:21

of Japanese culture. That's right.

29:23

So, Kami is just a word that

29:25

means the spirit living inside something in

29:27

nature. So, everything in

29:29

nature, every individual tree, rock,

29:32

leaf maybe? Maybe it's

29:34

not that divided. No, it is. Yeah, I think it

29:36

may be not leaf. Yeah, I suppose if

29:39

a leaf is a part of another entity,

29:41

that entity has that entity in it. A

29:43

river, a waterfall, all

29:45

of these things contain a

29:48

spirit in them and those are called Kami.

29:51

Exactly. Yeah. So,

29:53

everything generally has it. If you are trying to conceptualize

29:55

this and you're not very familiar with Shinto, then conceptualize

29:58

it as animism. is

30:00

kind of the broad religiosity term.

30:02

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of spiritual belief.

30:05

And a lot of people point to

30:07

Native American traditions prior to Europeans

30:09

where they had a very similar idea

30:11

of how they interacted with their

30:13

world around them. Everything had

30:15

a spirit. All those

30:17

things that had spirits also had

30:20

personalities that came with them. So

30:22

you could offend them, you could

30:24

honor them. Yeah. In

30:26

this case, with the camper tree, if there

30:28

is a spirit living in a tree, then

30:31

it would be very dishonorable to actually go

30:33

and cut down one of these trees. Because

30:35

you're essentially taking the home away from a

30:37

spirit. So you're kind of offending the spirit

30:39

world a little bit there. It seems like

30:41

a good basis for a religion, as

30:44

opposed to a lot

30:47

of Western religions which are

30:50

more man-holding dominion over nature.

30:52

Yeah, Alex, this is actually something I

30:54

think we've talked about it a little

30:57

bit. I believe that it's a big

30:59

theory I'm working on. 20

31:01

years from now, when I've given up the internet entirely,

31:04

I will have decided probably to

31:06

go seek a PhD. And

31:09

I would be doing that, searching through

31:12

religion in a way that

31:14

is talking about that exact idea. That

31:16

the religions that we are mostly familiar

31:18

with are very human-centric. I've

31:20

brought up Catholicism often. And I need to say,

31:23

this is just my dumb theory. No one should

31:25

believe me right now. And don't come at us

31:27

like, you got that completely wrong. I know. I'm

31:29

sure I did. It's a thing

31:31

I've been thinking about, though. The idea

31:33

that what we call Western

31:36

religions, which is really funny because we only called

31:38

that. They're actually what we use the East. Anyway.

31:41

What do you mean? They're from the

31:43

Middle East. So Christianity, Islam, Judaism. It's

31:45

all from a spot the Europeans refer

31:48

to as the Middle East. And now

31:50

everyone in the world describes them as

31:52

Western religions. Right. Which is just funny

31:54

how things move around over time. When

31:56

the world was smaller. Right. Yeah. I

31:58

saw the quote saying. Yeah, but

32:01

essentially yeah like in Catholicism

32:03

the the different Saints

32:05

they have their They

32:07

have their personalities and their traits that

32:09

are honorable, you know, yeah, like oh

32:11

you should be giving like this person

32:14

You should be strong like this person,

32:16

you know, this is the patron saint

32:18

of this, you know And they're all

32:20

human figures by the way exactly not

32:22

only figures like God like ancient Greek

32:24

gods were figures as well But

32:26

they were applications whereas

32:28

we are literally saying be

32:30

like this person that existed

32:33

in a literal sense interesting now we

32:35

have deified this individual and

32:37

that is the way to be

32:40

That takes us away from

32:42

the earth and the rest of the spirits

32:45

that are here Yeah, because now we're saying

32:47

no no be like humans

32:49

act like humans and imagine humans doing

32:51

human things Rather than saying

32:54

no be like that oak tree really

32:56

strong in stoic you

32:58

know be like that river very flowing

33:02

and Adaptable

33:05

yes, exactly. Thank you Alex

33:07

and and then like coyote is a really

33:10

common Figure in

33:12

Native American traditions as like the

33:14

trickster like it's a clever creative

33:17

sometimes vilified sometimes honorable

33:20

Entity and those those are based on

33:22

the carrot the kind of character qualities

33:25

of these animals Yeah, they plants and

33:27

features right and my idea is that if

33:29

we have given a metaphor like if we historically

33:31

had said You give a

33:33

metaphor to a tree or an animal or rock

33:35

or something like that and you say ah

33:37

this you you Alex Are just like this

33:39

thing. Thank you. Then that thing now

33:41

also has your traits as well Sure, so

33:44

we are giving you the traits of the

33:46

oak. We're giving the oak the traits of

33:48

Alex So it goes

33:50

back and forth like you are marrying those

33:52

ideas together Yeah, so that humanizes those things

33:54

and now if we do this enough over

33:56

everything now, we are interconnected

33:59

because we're almost understand the world

34:01

around us. Yeah. Now, I

34:03

am not going to sit here and say, well, that's

34:05

how animism started, but... Oh, I

34:07

want to jump in there really

34:09

fast to say, now when somebody

34:11

comes along and cuts down that

34:13

oak tree, I feel it. Yes,

34:16

exactly. I have a personal bond to this

34:18

oak tree, not just because I like that

34:20

oak tree, but because it's

34:22

been compared to me and I've been compared

34:24

to it. Yeah, exactly. You have this connection.

34:26

It is what brings, I think, people together

34:29

to their natural world. Yeah. It's that interaction.

34:31

Whether or not that's a metaphysical interaction, like

34:33

what we're talking about here, or if it's

34:35

a physical interaction where you get all of

34:37

the food that you've ever had. When your

34:39

parent was sick, when your daughter was sick,

34:41

you went to that tree and you got

34:43

something from it and that tree then gave

34:46

its power to help you.

34:50

And that is animism. That is animism.

34:53

I don't want to say that this is how

34:56

it started because, like we talked about last week,

34:58

these are things that have come up in every

35:00

culture around the entire world with the different plants

35:02

and environments around them. You literally name a culture

35:05

that has not come and colonized another place. It's

35:07

been there, living there, doing the thing with those

35:09

things for as long as time has existed. You're

35:12

going to find these patterns. In Japan,

35:15

in Shinto, specifically for a

35:17

tree like the camphor tree, it

35:19

has been a long time

35:22

powerful tree. Because

35:25

they have created this spiritualism where

35:27

everything has this animate

35:29

spirit within it, the more powerful

35:32

and honorable and big, in fact,

35:34

the biggest you have, the bigger

35:37

and more powerful it kind of feels.

35:39

You're like, whoa, that thing is remarkable.

35:41

You know what I mean? Yeah,

35:44

totally. It's

35:48

funny, I

35:50

was raised in a loosely

35:53

Christian household. None

35:56

of us were super devote. We

35:59

prayed before dinner. I went to church every Sunday,

36:01

but we weren't reading Bible passages to

36:03

each other for fun on a Sunday

36:05

night or whatever. And

36:09

then that's the way I was raised, and then

36:11

I kind of explored some other options when I

36:13

was in my 20s, and now I've kind of

36:15

settled where I feel comfortable.

36:18

And then you're describing animism to me,

36:21

and I'm thinking, God, that sounds

36:23

really fucking important. Like,

36:26

we should be teaching this to

36:28

everyone, regardless of religion. I don't

36:31

know if that's even possible, because

36:33

it's quite contradictory to many religions.

36:35

It is. It's contradictory specifically to

36:37

things like Christianity. So, Camper...

36:40

Yeah, what were we talking about? So,

36:46

Camper clearly... I

36:49

mean, I feel like we're leading to a point

36:51

of like, well, Camper is extremely important to Shinto.

36:53

Yes. OK. And the reason it

36:55

is, is what I said earlier is that

36:57

it's a powerful tree. Yeah. It has power. And

36:59

this is also something I've been also thinking a

37:02

lot lately. I can't share my thoughts,

37:04

not because they're inappropriate, just because

37:06

I haven't fully decided how they're going to be

37:08

and what they are. But it's essentially

37:10

the idea of plants being powerful

37:13

entities. If you

37:15

think about it from the perspective of strange

37:17

apes that start walking around

37:19

on two legs, and then smell this thing and

37:22

crush it, and they're like, what the hell is

37:24

that? They eat a little bit of it. It

37:26

tastes really weird on their tongue. They eat a

37:28

little bit of this, and they kind of get

37:30

some high a little bit. Those plants are powerful.

37:33

Exactly. Like, they alter what

37:35

your normal expectations are

37:37

for existence. In that same

37:39

way, Casey, a giant, giant,

37:42

giant tree make

37:44

you feel very small. Yeah. You go,

37:46

oh, that thing's really powerful, because I'm

37:48

tiny compared to it. Yeah, exactly. And

37:50

then, on top of that, you break

37:52

the camper leaves, or you etch into

37:54

the wood, and you get this intense

37:57

smell. Oh, really? Yes. that

38:00

is known around the world

38:02

for this tree specifically and

38:05

it is the smell of camphor. What is it? It

38:08

is a terpene, it's a pineina

38:10

terpene, it's essentially a volatile

38:13

organic substance which is just like

38:16

as soon as you expose this oil or this

38:18

thing to air it kind of immediately volatizes and

38:20

then you smell it. Okay. Same

38:23

thing with pines, if you take a leaf of a

38:25

true fur and you break it and you can smell

38:27

it, oh, the

38:29

Christmas tree smell, you know, you cut

38:31

into wood of a small

38:33

tree, specifically conifers, you get that scent.

38:35

Is that like when I peel an

38:37

orange? Yeah. And then my whole apartment

38:39

smells like oranges. Exactly, those are the

38:41

volatile organic compounds. Volatile. Yes, and

38:43

we would distill that from things like

38:45

the wood, the twigs, the leaves and we

38:47

would get the essential oils. Ah, hey Casey.

38:50

Yeah, huh? There's some essential oil going right

38:52

next to you there. What do you have

38:54

in there? That's peppermint. Ah, okay, well it's

38:56

not camphor. Well, maybe if I had thought

38:58

this through, I could have done

39:00

my fucking job and gotten some camphor oils. Yeah,

39:02

what the heck, man? Ha ha ha ha ha

39:05

ha ha. But

39:07

yeah, okay, so we take the volatile, I mean

39:09

volatile is almost like a negative

39:12

word, it feels like to me. No, no, no, no, no,

39:14

no. It just means that it is,

39:17

it volatizes, which means it goes

39:19

from kind of a solid state to an

39:21

aerosol state. Oh. You can smell it very

39:24

quickly. Okay. Yeah, yeah,

39:26

yeah. Mothballs are an example.

39:28

So they are, or camphor

39:30

is used for things like

39:33

mothballs. And it

39:35

is in the tree, specifically

39:37

an insecticide. Oh my God.

39:40

An insecticide. It also is antimicrobial.

39:43

So it's a substance that

39:45

helps keep certain

39:48

insects and pathogens away from the

39:50

tree. So it's a tree's defense

39:52

system, which is why it's in all the

39:55

parts, just like eucalyptus and other things like

39:57

that. What is that substance called? It is

39:59

camphor. Oh, that's the substance?

40:01

Yes, we call it camphor. Okay, so

40:03

when I go to the hardware store

40:06

and buy synthetic mothballs,

40:08

these little white, have you seen

40:10

these little white, like, tablets?

40:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's just like

40:15

concentrated camphor oil. It used to be.

40:17

Now there's other things in it, but

40:20

camphor is kind of the OG point

40:22

of it. I think it smells a lot better

40:25

than what mothballs smell like these days. Okay. So

40:27

it was the initial thing. In

40:29

fact, camphor wood

40:31

was moved over across the

40:33

silk roads and was used

40:35

for things like the

40:38

plague, the black plague. They would like take

40:40

it and be like, and they would use

40:42

it to like clear air around the area.

40:45

Why would they do that? Well,

40:47

it smells really good. And someone's

40:50

like, wow, so this smell

40:52

is way different and more intense and powerful.

40:54

So they may have not known that it

40:56

was doing anything. It fights the

40:58

humors. Yes, but do you know what?

41:01

It's an anti insecticide,

41:03

anti flea

41:06

medicine. Ah. Before

41:08

anyone says anything, I know fleas

41:10

are arachnids, but... Oh,

41:12

I don't think anyone was thinking that. Alex,

41:14

we do not run in the same circles.

41:17

I literally felt someone text me at that

41:19

exact moment. No,

41:21

it's a, they would still, it kills and

41:23

like keeps fleas away. They don't like, it

41:27

still is a pesticide in that

41:29

regard. And a lot of

41:31

viruses are carried by insects. Exactly

41:34

the black plague was. It was

41:36

not the rats, it was the fleas that were on

41:38

the rats. Right. So it

41:41

helped even though it also just like

41:43

cleared the air, you know? So they

41:45

would use it during the black plague. They

41:47

would also put it in like burial things.

41:49

So they would use some infusions and put

41:52

a shroud on somebody and that would help

41:54

keep the fungus and things away from them

41:56

and help keep them, their

41:58

bodies specifically, ancient

42:00

Egypt. They would also build chests

42:02

out of the wood and the

42:05

chests would be natural barriers to

42:07

different things coming in. Protect

42:10

your fine silk robes.

42:13

Exactly. Silk is a natural

42:15

substance that is eaten by

42:17

certain things. It is

42:19

also rather in a

42:21

similar vein, wool is a natural

42:24

substance. Many people would have their

42:26

wool clothes smell like mothballs, smell

42:28

like camphor because they

42:32

wanted to keep moths away. There you go. Wow.

42:34

And then you would see all these things. It

42:36

is so funny to think about, I mean we

42:38

talked about sort of like ancestral knowledge last week.

42:40

Like in today's world we think,

42:43

well now we really know a lot

42:46

about these things. Yes, and now we

42:49

can go in scientifically, you know, enter

42:51

this in and synthesize whatever we want.

42:53

Exactly. But I never, like from

42:56

making this podcast onward, I never want

42:58

to undersell

43:01

the sort of like power

43:03

of kind

43:05

of like intuitive knowledge about

43:07

these things. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

43:09

Because they didn't have the science

43:12

to say, well here's why putting

43:14

camphor little camphor balls in your

43:16

chest will keep moths out

43:18

of your wool. Yeah. They just like, they

43:22

knew it somehow, you know, trial and

43:24

error. Trial and error. And also it's

43:26

the powerfulness of it. They realize, aha,

43:28

maybe it's more of a respect thing

43:30

where they said, ah, well this tree

43:32

is so powerful, even the

43:34

insects respect it. And they will

43:36

stay away if you do this. Yeah.

43:39

It's like you cannot take

43:41

away the spirituality of a

43:43

people, of a culture, and

43:48

then talk about their relationship with

43:50

the natural world to any extent, because they

43:52

are all married together. Yeah.

43:54

So back to the camphor tree. Yes.

43:57

This is, like we said, one of the biggest trees

44:00

and I've read that for trees specifically

44:02

the bigger they are and if they're

44:04

over a hundred years they are ripe

44:07

for a commie so

44:09

that is as they get

44:11

older and bigger that's when

44:13

spirits start to move in

44:16

and actually take residence oh

44:18

so it's not it's

44:20

not necessarily true that every thing

44:22

by default has a commie I don't

44:24

believe so yeah only certain things but

44:27

there are like commies of the forest

44:29

you know sure but then there are

44:31

specific certain ones that live in certain

44:33

things or embody certain things I gotcha

44:35

so in this case like let's say

44:37

the ficus religiosa our

44:40

religious fig that our

44:43

fig tree that Buddha was

44:45

underneath the sacred fig exactly

44:47

so that sacred fig now

44:49

every fig is sacred so they say

44:51

no no if that is a fig

44:54

like this that is a sacred tree and

44:56

it gets that it's just it's shoe in

44:58

sure it's a shoe in yeah in this

45:01

case it's the only the ones that have

45:03

clearly gained that power where spirit has said

45:05

yeah I'm gonna go there okay

45:08

my home so you get a Totoro

45:10

when you are a giant old camper

45:12

tree yeah that is what happened here

45:15

and you can also tell because around the

45:17

camper tree I can't remember it's the scene

45:19

in the movie where the dad

45:21

and the two girls they look

45:23

for where Totoro was where May

45:26

went in and was like it was right

45:28

here yeah she like crawls back in crawls back out and

45:30

you can see her be really frustrating like yeah

45:34

it's kind of a Narnia thing yeah

45:36

like when you want to show somebody it's

45:38

not there it's not there yeah yeah so

45:40

then the dad says well let's go let's

45:42

go into the forest and let's go let's

45:44

go pray and kind of honor the spirits

45:46

and say thanks and please

45:48

show us this again they walk back in

45:51

and even though you can tell the dad is kind of missing

45:53

this just you know he's playing

45:55

along playing along which I think is so sweet I

45:57

love this yeah he doesn't refute her she hasn't said

46:00

Oh, this is pointless. Yeah, you were

46:02

just imagining things. He like he

46:04

humors her Exactly,

46:06

and it pays off obviously and

46:09

so they then walk over and they

46:11

find the camper tree with the little

46:13

shrine next to it And it has

46:15

this rope tied around it. Yes with

46:18

like a little pendants hanging Yeah, and

46:20

that is called a Sheminawa. Sheminawa. And

46:22

Sheminawa is literally a rope It's either

46:24

rice straw or hemp or something like

46:26

that and it is a sacred rope

46:28

It's tied around big trees like this

46:31

that literally is meant to say

46:34

There is a spirit in here. This is

46:36

a spiritual place and it's to

46:38

be honored. Don't be an asshole Wow Yeah,

46:41

okay That is the old point so if

46:44

you ever walk around and you see a

46:46

tree that has a rope tied around it

46:48

That is a special tree. It's almost like

46:50

heritage trees. Yes. Yeah, that's like yes a

46:53

perfect example Yeah, but it's a it's

46:55

it's kind of like Known

46:57

I guess you know like it's an

46:59

age-old spiritual tradition But it's also I

47:01

think something that is used often today

47:04

to just denote this is special Yeah,

47:06

let's honor this and give it its

47:08

give it its its space interesting Casey.

47:10

I wonder what's on those I mean

47:13

I've seen those like I

47:15

forget what they're called little tat little wooden

47:17

tablets that hang from the rope Yeah,

47:20

I've seen those in like Buddhist

47:22

traditions a lot Yeah,

47:25

I don't know what they say maybe they

47:27

have like names on them or like yeah

47:30

reminders of stuff Yeah, they might be little

47:32

prayers of some yeah. Well anyone knows yeah,

47:34

let us know reach out to share your

47:36

knowledge Please yes,

47:38

so in Totoro my

47:41

neighbor they find this tree

47:43

and because it has this little shrine

47:45

next to it, which is very common

47:47

also In

47:49

Japan there is in fact a

47:51

real great story started to do one last little quick

47:53

like huh there is there's a

47:55

train station that I read about and this

47:59

train station Let's

48:01

see, it's north of Osaka

48:04

and it's the Kiyoshima

48:06

Station. There is a

48:08

huge camphor tree that is at least

48:11

700 years old. I

48:13

have seen this. And you've seen the tree that

48:15

you're talking about? It was right next to this

48:17

train station and then the train station

48:19

got very busy and they said, well, okay, we're going

48:21

to have to expand the thing. And

48:23

initially, they were just going to

48:25

cut the tree down because it is what we do

48:27

in humans world today. If there's nature thing in

48:29

the way, engineer your way around it. Put

48:32

your apartments over the top of that river. Don't

48:35

even worry about it. Now in a

48:37

giant tunnel. Poor Haku. So

48:39

in this case, everyone was

48:41

like, no, this is a spiritual tree. There's

48:43

a kami in there. Like, we just cut it down.

48:45

It's going to be bad luck for everybody and this is going

48:47

to be horrible. Like, let's not do that. And

48:50

in fact, it sounds like somebody did

48:52

something to this tree near the station

48:54

years ago and like got sick. Like they cut

48:56

a branch off or something. Oh, wow. And

48:58

then like by that night they had a fever.

49:00

Hey, man. Don't fuck with

49:03

Totoro. Exactly. Don't fuck with Totoro. And then

49:05

they ended up. So funny. Yeah,

49:07

they built a station around

49:09

the tree and I just I

49:11

don't know how many times I bash my

49:13

head against somebody who insists they have to cut

49:16

down this tree to do whatever it is they

49:18

want to do. Yeah. Instead of

49:20

being like, do you have any idea how famous this

49:23

one random train station is now across

49:25

the world? We two random

49:27

white guys in Portland, Oregon are talking

49:29

about it. Now all these

49:32

other random people across the world are going to

49:34

be listening to this show, hopefully.

49:37

And then finding like learning about this

49:39

station. Like you made an

49:41

architectural decision to save a tree for

49:44

no other reason than the spiritual value that

49:46

it had to the people around

49:48

that tree that would be using that station.

49:51

Then you have now said, okay, okay, okay, okay.

49:53

We're going to do this because, hey, guess

49:55

what? We can literally engineer any. So

49:59

all they did. It's just engineer this

50:01

train station around it. The tree's still alive. It's still

50:03

kicking 700 years later. Yep, and

50:05

they have this Beautiful piece

50:07

of like architectural curiosity. Hmm. And now you

50:09

can go to this train station and touch

50:12

this tree There's a shrine at the base

50:14

of it. Wow That goes by Everybody's

50:17

happy Wow. Why can't we do

50:19

that everywhere else? Well,

50:22

that's a question. That's a big

50:24

question. Yeah, right And

50:26

by that, I mean, I don't know Wow

50:30

Casey interesting and I wonder you know, I

50:32

wonder um, I know that my

50:34

never Totoro a lot of it

50:36

is based on Miyazaki's

50:39

experiences as a child. Yeah, and

50:41

I wonder You know, maybe

50:43

maybe Miyazaki saw that tree at one

50:46

point what one time maybe

50:48

Miyazaki saw that tree at one point or a

50:50

tree similar to it and Like

50:52

it just sparked something in him and then

50:55

here we are. Yeah decades later talking

50:57

about a tree just like it and It's

51:02

it's uh, you know, it's become like

51:04

a lesson now that I

51:06

bet you is completely accurate you know, like as

51:08

soon as something like this happens and you get

51:10

a see the You

51:13

get to see it in like like I said

51:15

last week like you see children see it and

51:17

they get the idea Yeah, they're like, oh wow,

51:19

this is cool And like you don't just steer

51:22

people away to the you know, real adult world

51:24

so to speak and say right Stop

51:26

being foolish. There's no spirit in that tree.

51:29

Yeah instead of you just like like

51:32

Allow that to exist totally because

51:34

who's to say it doesn't I mean for literally

51:36

our entire existence until 2,000 years ago Most

51:39

people thought that like around the world

51:41

like it was the majority opinion Yeah,

51:44

and then I mean not to get

51:46

too off-topic here, but like how many

51:48

big like Galileo? yeah

51:52

Was called a heretic because he said that

51:54

that the was Galileo the one said the

51:56

the Sun does not revolve around the earth

51:58

Yeah, or the you Universe does

52:00

not revolve around the earth. Yeah. Yeah,

52:02

and but up until then everybody was

52:04

positive that it did And you

52:06

know like we keep making these big breakthroughs, and I

52:09

think it's and I say this without an

52:11

ounce of irony I think that

52:13

one day we may Science

52:16

may say you know what actually what

52:18

we call spirit Exists

52:20

in all these things yeah, I'm sure it

52:22

can and then everybody will go vegan overnight

52:27

Or at least honor the animal you're about to

52:29

eat like that's I think the big thing because

52:31

it just Giving the

52:33

respect in the agency to the natural

52:35

world whatever part of it it is

52:37

yeah this other thing It's essentially

52:40

putting a name to something so it

52:42

can be humanized and you can relate to

52:44

it And if you do that and

52:46

then you give that a couple thousand years of human

52:48

imagination Now you

52:50

get personified versions of yeah, and you

52:52

get this big furry bunny looking

52:54

thing Literally

52:58

and figuratively it lives inside of

53:00

this tree. Yes is it the

53:03

tree I don't know

53:05

like how are we defining that totally I also

53:08

think that you know in the

53:10

same way that like a Christian

53:12

woman from Missouri can like meditate

53:14

and Practice

53:17

mindfulness, which is a Buddhist

53:19

practice I

53:21

think that anyone can apply

53:25

You know sort of the framework of

53:27

animism to their to their everyday life no matter

53:29

what your kind of religious beliefs

53:31

Yeah, and honestly I believe praying is just

53:34

a different form of meditation Yeah, and pray

53:36

pray to God about something. That's really just

53:38

why don't you think about it for a

53:40

while and God will help lead you You

53:43

are meditating to get this

53:45

answer from God. Yes, sure that sounds

53:47

great And I think that people can

53:49

just do that to as many

53:51

different entities as they feel necessary like Many

53:54

of my friends go out and go to rock or

53:57

go out and go rock climbing because they find it

53:59

to be spiritual event like they're really

54:01

sitting there like Concentrating

54:03

so hard on this rock face while they're

54:06

trying to get up and climb to the

54:08

top like there's it's full of metaphor My

54:10

totally oh my god Yeah, so you got

54:12

to think that you know everyone has their

54:14

own way of doing these kinds of meditative

54:17

Moments that's my ultimate theory is that we're

54:19

all no matter like what it looks like

54:21

We're all doing basically the same thing and

54:24

we're worshiping basically the same thing. We're praying

54:26

to basically the same thing I think so.

54:28

Yeah, that's my take Wow.

54:30

What a good take out Thanks,

54:33

Casey. Yeah, and now we got to take

54:35

a break But when we get back we

54:37

are gonna talk about our review of this

54:40

camper tree And then we're gonna talk

54:42

about my neighbor Totoro so stay tuned

54:44

to completely arbitrary Tariasaki Welcome

54:58

back to Tariasaki

55:01

That was our discussion of the camper and so

55:03

much more. You know what Casey? Yes,

55:06

I am NOT going to edit most of

55:08

that out. Oh, yeah. I think it was

55:10

a fun interesting conversation it really I feel

55:12

like Some people like you know you

55:15

put your head out the window and then you kind

55:17

of feel like oh I just got

55:19

like blasted by a bunch of things. Uh-huh. I feel

55:21

like that might been for some people maybe

55:23

our apologies But we had fun. I

55:25

yeah, which is also important. Yeah, I'm

55:27

good with it That

55:31

was our discussion of the camper hey, it's

55:33

time for a review of this wonderful tree

55:36

Here's how it works. We're gonna get some final thoughts

55:38

on the camper and then We

55:41

are going to give it a rating of zero

55:44

to ten commie yes,

55:48

and And Casey is our

55:51

remember last week we certified you as

55:53

a Shinto expert. Yes We

55:55

begin with you also my apology I

56:01

am going to The

56:03

expertise is relative. Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah,

56:05

I know more than you. Therefore. I am

56:07

your expert exactly Yes, and I have other

56:09

experts as well. Mm-hmm the camphor tree. I

56:12

love the camphor tree because

56:14

it is such an interesting Gigantic

56:18

tree and I have always heard

56:20

about the camphor just because

56:22

it's a very popular tree Like everyone knows

56:24

the term camphor like yeah, it's a standard

56:26

kind of thing But

56:29

I didn't know about the tree a lot of times in fact

56:31

through this podcast I have been able to learn all

56:34

about the things that come from different trees or

56:36

learn that the things that I know of Come

56:38

from trees and I think it's fascinating Yeah, not

56:40

Meg is a great example. I had no idea

56:43

about not Meg until we were like, oh But

56:46

about no making like looking like oh, it's a

56:48

tree. Oh my god I like it

56:50

gives me at least the opportunity

56:52

to learn about all these The

56:55

histories and where these things came from the

56:58

other related topics. It's what I love and

57:00

it's what I believe in very thoroughly Yeah,

57:02

and so with the camper tree I think

57:04

it's fascinating because a now I

57:07

kind of feel like I know it more.

57:09

Mmm I've seen them down in San Francisco

57:11

and places like that. Apparently my friend Brandon

57:14

just hung out with him last night watching a

57:16

mushroom class that we're

57:18

taking together and He's he

57:20

was like, oh, yeah well They sure don't like

57:22

root pruning and he said it kind of funny cuz

57:24

he used to be an arborist down in down

57:27

in San Francisco Oh, no, he's

57:29

he knows it differently than I do. Okay, but

57:31

I think it's fun cuz now it's like just so casual

57:33

for him He's like, oh, yeah, don't prune the roots. They

57:35

they hate that Just

57:38

a very casual knowing and I'm like, I

57:40

barely even know this trees name Yeah, so

57:42

it is a tree that I think is

57:44

like so well known but also kind of

57:46

unknown and known very differently different people It

57:49

is invasive in certain parts of the world Like

57:51

I said Australia, Florida and yet

57:53

in other parts it's revered as a literal

57:56

spirit All right, and has shrines next to

57:58

it and I just love that that kind

58:00

of tree that plays every role

58:02

and has 10 different faces wherever it's at. It's

58:04

a metaphor in itself, can you see? It is,

58:06

it is. It's a metaphor. I love that this

58:09

tree does all the things that it does in

58:11

terms of being a medicine and

58:14

being a useful piece of material, like

58:16

making things out of it, out

58:18

of its wood, using

58:21

its distillations in

58:23

different products. Cosmetics is a big

58:26

thing, but also different natural means

58:28

of keeping insects away and fungus

58:30

and things like that. And,

58:33

well, let's just get right down to it. It's a

58:35

huge tree. I love big trees.

58:37

You love a superlative tree. I love a

58:39

superlative tree. So the biggest tree in Japan,

58:42

now I know that, I love that. Wow.

58:47

What am I talking about? Golden Totoro's

58:50

of honor. Trierzaki's a success. Yeah,

58:52

we've done it. Ha ha ha

58:54

ha. 8.9

58:56

golden kami's of honor. Or Totoro's.

59:00

Oh Totoro. How

59:02

about 8.9 golden etsy

59:05

Totoro plushies of honor?

59:07

Oh, that sounds good. In fact, actually,

59:09

hold on. Casey's taking off his sweatshirt.

59:13

Are you just too warm? No,

59:15

I have a Totoro shirt. Oh my

59:18

God. Yeah, what do you think? When did you

59:20

get this? Carrie, let me borrow it. Oh my

59:22

God. She was like, do you want to wear

59:24

this? I was like, you have a Totoro shirt?

59:27

Oh, that's great. It depicts the cat bus.

59:29

Yes, the cat bus with everyone waiting, I

59:32

think, at the thing. At the bus stop, yeah.

59:34

Wow, fabulous shirt. I love the design of that.

59:36

It's cool. It was a nice, yeah. What a

59:38

nice reveal. Yeah, thanks, thanks. I almost forgot about

59:40

it. You're a fan after all. Oh,

59:43

it's a cute movie. It is. It's

59:45

a cute movie. Oh,

59:49

but before we talk about cute movies, we have to talk

59:51

about cute ratings. Specifically from cute

59:53

Alex. Oh, Casey. I'm

59:55

blushing. Well, we think it's cute. Here

59:58

we go. I

1:00:00

think the campers fabulous In

1:00:04

the movie yeah when it's first revealed there's

1:00:06

like this and this is a theme I'm

1:00:08

noticing this in a lot of Miyazaki

1:00:11

films there are like

1:00:13

beauty shots of trees We're

1:00:16

like like pan up the whole tree, you

1:00:18

know, and there's like swelling music playing It's

1:00:21

really focuses a lot of attention on

1:00:23

the tree. Mm-hmm. There's a great

1:00:25

one in spirited away There's

1:00:28

a shot of a tree that when it's

1:00:30

first revealed to me this huge fucking tree

1:00:32

and It is big and

1:00:34

I was like that's probably

1:00:37

creative license Hmm cuz that is

1:00:39

a really really really big tree,

1:00:41

especially for like a broadleaf tree.

1:00:43

Yeah now that we've discussed

1:00:45

it I'm kind

1:00:48

of like oh, I think that's just like

1:00:50

an accurate representation of how big this tree

1:00:52

is Yeah, and I think what's important is

1:00:54

also that it's from a tiny little girl

1:00:57

because fair this is something that

1:00:59

is like I remember as a

1:01:01

kid like Whoa, yeah, like

1:01:04

when I was a tiny little kid looking at

1:01:06

something. Yeah today. I'm like Big

1:01:08

but it's not giant and and from listening

1:01:10

to a couple interviews with Miyazaki. I know

1:01:12

that he he Made

1:01:15

this film very much from

1:01:17

the perspective of a child in many ways.

1:01:19

Yeah So that makes sense

1:01:21

but my point stands it's a huge

1:01:23

huge tree She and I love the

1:01:26

way it like goes out as much

1:01:28

as it goes up and

1:01:32

I love the I love the sort of the

1:01:34

sort of I've

1:01:36

seen a few photos of like the really massive

1:01:38

ones Yeah, I love the form it takes like

1:01:41

that's that really takes center stage for me with

1:01:43

this tree the leaves I can take or leave.

1:01:45

I don't think we talked. Oh, yes. We did

1:01:47

talk about the flowers. Yes I can take or

1:01:50

leave but we didn't talk about the fruit the

1:01:52

fruits a little black little black troops. Oh, see

1:01:57

But but I think center stage for me

1:01:59

in this review is the form and

1:02:02

I just love looking at these

1:02:04

trees. I would love to see one

1:02:06

of these giants in

1:02:08

Japan. Yeah. I would especially love

1:02:11

to see one that has you

1:02:13

know a Kami living inside

1:02:15

of it like we talked about. Yeah

1:02:18

I'm giving this bad boy. Hmm I

1:02:21

gotta go for it. 9.2. Wow. That's

1:02:24

a great score. Golden Kami of Honor.

1:02:27

Golden Kami of Honor. Now if you had done 9 as

1:02:30

well Casey you got you almost got there. I did

1:02:33

yeah yeah I almost did but

1:02:35

still dumb broadleaf tree. That was

1:02:37

our review

1:02:40

of the camper. Hey

1:02:42

it's time for

1:02:46

the piece de resistance. It

1:02:48

is Ghibli Ta. Casey

1:03:03

let's talk my neighbor

1:03:05

Totoro. Oh right. This

1:03:07

was of course your first time seeing it.

1:03:09

It is that's correct. I believe it was

1:03:11

my second time although I don't really remember

1:03:13

much from the first time around. Yeah and

1:03:15

I was shocked by some things on my

1:03:17

second viewing. What were you shocked by? Well

1:03:19

also spoilers everyone so go watch it pause

1:03:21

here. Oh yes you can find all these

1:03:23

movies that we're talking about this month on

1:03:25

HBO Max if you happen to have a

1:03:27

subscription. So this is my second time I I

1:03:30

did not remember at all the

1:03:32

fact that the reason they

1:03:34

move out to the country was

1:03:36

that the mother is sick. Yes. And

1:03:39

is in the hospital so they are moving

1:03:41

closer to the hospital. But they're still three

1:03:43

hour walk even for an adult. Yes and

1:03:47

I completely forgot about that part and

1:03:49

sort of the tension of like having

1:03:51

a parent you know

1:03:53

not only away from you but like

1:03:56

really sick in a hospital.

1:03:58

And we don't know what Exactly.

1:04:00

She's sick. Oh, well, it's never stated clearly in

1:04:02

the movie But I did some reading and

1:04:05

as a child Miyazaki's mother had tuberculosis

1:04:09

And a lot of this is based on his childhood

1:04:11

I see and they had to move out to

1:04:13

the country to get closer to move rather closer to

1:04:15

a hospital that yeah So

1:04:18

I think it's it's safe to say that

1:04:20

it's based her illness is based on tuberculosis.

1:04:22

Gotcha I didn't remember anything about that I

1:04:25

also forgot about a pretty

1:04:27

key plot point, which is that the younger

1:04:29

sister may goes missing. Yes and

1:04:33

it's not like she

1:04:35

goes missing and then Satsuki

1:04:39

which is the older sister is like looking

1:04:41

for her We like occasionally cut to May

1:04:43

and see that she's fine. Yeah, but but

1:04:45

satsuki is still looking for her It's like

1:04:47

we don't know like we as the audience

1:04:50

don't know where May is either We

1:04:53

don't know where she they're dredging

1:04:55

the river to see if she

1:04:57

if she drowned a little sandal

1:04:59

Yeah, it's horribly stressful and

1:05:02

that was my big takeaway from this movie Casey

1:05:04

I really I know that I was supposed to

1:05:06

watch it for like, you know A

1:05:09

look at Shinto or the trees involved

1:05:11

the camphor tree specifically But I was

1:05:13

sort of wrapped up in the relationships

1:05:15

between all the family members I have

1:05:17

something to say about the dad too

1:05:20

And then like the tension the

1:05:22

stress of like the sick

1:05:25

mother and then they get that

1:05:27

fucking I mean this this this

1:05:29

really attacked my anxiety Casey like

1:05:31

very pointedly because they get a

1:05:33

Telegram. Yeah. Yeah that

1:05:36

just like call the hospital. Yeah, it's urgent.

1:05:38

You know, like uh-huh and with no other

1:05:40

information Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then

1:05:42

like she may has her a satsuki has to

1:05:44

call her dad And like can't get

1:05:46

through right away and then the dad has to call

1:05:49

the hospital and it's like this whole thing Yeah,

1:05:52

cuz it also takes place in the 1950s So

1:05:54

it's yeah, you can't just not everyone has

1:05:56

a phone not everyone can just like make

1:05:58

things happen that fast Yeah, you can't just

1:06:00

like call the hospital. I guess

1:06:03

you can call the hospital. Yeah,

1:06:06

so I was really focused on sort of

1:06:08

the relationships between all the

1:06:10

characters and the portrayal of

1:06:12

like young, you

1:06:15

know, young rascals in a

1:06:17

new place. Yeah. And

1:06:20

the part that I was, quote, supposed to

1:06:22

be focused on, the nature aspect,

1:06:24

I kind of like didn't really

1:06:27

pay that much attention to. Oh.

1:06:30

But yeah, that was my big takeaway,

1:06:32

Casey. Yeah, yeah. Well, you really applied

1:06:34

yourself to the drama of

1:06:36

the people specifically.

1:06:39

Sort of the background story,

1:06:41

right? Well, I think it's the

1:06:43

foreground story. I think that was the story. And there was

1:06:45

more of a setting around it, maybe. Yeah, I guess I

1:06:47

just mean like, that's the framework that

1:06:49

the movie is happening in. But,

1:06:52

you know, the Totoro,

1:06:54

the title character, is

1:06:57

sort of like, I think sort

1:06:59

of supposed to be like the crux

1:07:01

of his relationship with the girls and

1:07:04

his role in the story. Yeah, and so

1:07:06

what I was picking up with that is

1:07:08

that they were going through a

1:07:11

rough and scary time and they

1:07:13

seemed to be quite happy with moving

1:07:16

to the forest or

1:07:18

moving to the country, right? Yeah, yeah. But

1:07:20

then you learn later that this has

1:07:22

happened before, like, oh, mom just has a cold,

1:07:25

like she's gonna be fine. And then she's at

1:07:27

the hospital again and then the girls are basically

1:07:29

like, this is not fine. This has

1:07:31

happened before, we know, we get it. Mom's gonna die. And

1:07:34

like, it's a big moment, you know, and it's like big thing

1:07:36

and they're gonna fight. Yeah, they're two

1:07:38

very close sisters, which I think is important.

1:07:40

Like, they're not, they don't fight, they have

1:07:42

a very good relationship. And they're

1:07:44

both like very brave also. Like, when I was

1:07:46

a kid, I would be terrified to like go

1:07:48

up into attics and look around and be spooked.

1:07:50

I mean, they're just, they go up there and

1:07:52

scream and they're like, all right, let's go explore.

1:07:54

Yeah, they're- I'm like, how do you do that?

1:07:56

They're very like, they're very willful and sort of.

1:08:01

Just like very curious. Yeah, yeah where

1:08:03

they have no fear Yeah, exactly And

1:08:05

then I think that also is is

1:08:07

brought to them with nature and animism

1:08:10

in a larger sense where

1:08:12

the the forest and specifically

1:08:14

Totoro is This

1:08:16

entity of the forest this spirit that

1:08:19

is personified through the tree and

1:08:21

the tree itself like causes the wind and they there's

1:08:23

A big thing at the very beginning this wind came

1:08:25

through and is a scary wind at night and the

1:08:28

dad had to be like just laugh Just

1:08:30

laughing everything's gonna be okay Yeah And

1:08:32

then they end up learning that it's actually

1:08:35

Totoro who's going around creating the wind and

1:08:37

also not scary anymore Yeah, and so it's

1:08:39

like the they move out to this country

1:08:42

Where everything initially can kind of seem a little

1:08:44

daunting and scary and other they're like no It's

1:08:46

there's just spirits out there hanging around just go

1:08:48

just go be with them and then it becomes

1:08:50

not only Something that is kind

1:08:52

of fun and interesting cute and you can poke it and rub

1:08:55

it little nose But

1:08:57

it then becomes also this thing that they turn

1:08:59

to in times of the biggest

1:09:01

trouble and The forest

1:09:03

is just utterly not concerned. Yeah,

1:09:05

and that I almost took is

1:09:07

like if if

1:09:10

may had had perished for whatever

1:09:12

reason and Totoro had

1:09:14

to be like this is the way of the forest, you

1:09:16

know I'm just gonna sit on the top of my tree

1:09:18

and we'll play my flute in honor or The

1:09:21

forest is also like everything's fine. Like don't

1:09:23

worry about it. Let's go. Let's go find

1:09:25

me Like I'll show you that everything is

1:09:27

okay Yeah so it could be like either

1:09:29

side of that and I think it also

1:09:31

portrays the The harshness of

1:09:34

nature in a very comforting way where the

1:09:36

end of it you just have these Little

1:09:38

spirits sit on top of the tree playing

1:09:40

their flutes and hanging out and then at

1:09:42

one point that can be comforting But at

1:09:44

the other time it could be almost somber,

1:09:46

you know Yeah, of course the whole movie

1:09:48

is played in this very like happy-go-lucky kind

1:09:50

of way Yeah, so I don't know it seemed

1:09:52

to me like all those

1:09:54

things were Were

1:09:56

back dropped against Totoro as this

1:09:58

main character like titular character, but

1:10:01

it's really not like Totoro. That

1:10:03

would be, this movie is about

1:10:05

this character, but my neighbor Totoro

1:10:08

kind of seems like it's coming

1:10:10

from the perspective of the

1:10:13

girls. So they are still

1:10:15

the main characters and they are more titular. It's

1:10:17

Mai, I think you could also say. Not

1:10:19

Mei, but Mai is in My Neighbor.

1:10:22

Very good, yeah. You're talking from that

1:10:24

perspective of that person. Sure. So.

1:10:27

Oh, it's like I love Lucy. The titular

1:10:29

character is actually Ricky because he's saying

1:10:31

I love Lucy. Yes, yeah, yeah,

1:10:33

yeah. He's the eye. Totally got it, yeah. Interesting.

1:10:35

And so I think that that is, it's

1:10:38

something that I

1:10:40

think is an interesting kind of play. And again,

1:10:42

there's also things lost in translation, but I think

1:10:44

that My Neighbor Totoro is such a funny, casual

1:10:47

term. And it's like, yeah, it's just my

1:10:49

neighbor. And it's like, it is your neighbor.

1:10:51

Your neighbor is this spirit, the forest,

1:10:53

the entity, and it becomes this like, that

1:10:56

spirit, this entity becomes

1:10:59

as useful as your literal

1:11:01

other neighbors in finding Mei,

1:11:03

the little girl. Yeah. They

1:11:05

all got together and everyone was looking. That's right. And he

1:11:07

was like, oh yeah, well hold on, let me just switch

1:11:10

the cat bus over. Yeah, there you go, okay, go, go

1:11:12

find her. Yeah, he makes it so easy. And that's, I

1:11:14

mean, for me, from a, you know,

1:11:16

looking at this as a

1:11:18

film, and

1:11:20

this is kind of interesting role reversal, Casey, because

1:11:23

you look at trees as trees, and

1:11:25

I look at them more emotionally, usually.

1:11:28

And now you are looking at the film

1:11:31

sort of, you know, from

1:11:33

that perspective, and I am looking at it as

1:11:36

a three act film, with

1:11:39

tension and release and character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And

1:11:42

I'm just starry-eyed over here. Well, it's

1:11:45

good to walk in each

1:11:47

other's shoes. Uh-huh. So, you

1:11:49

know, part of the, part

1:11:52

of what I didn't like about this film was

1:11:55

that there's so much tension

1:11:57

building throughout. Like the mom being in the

1:11:59

hospital. It's kind of like this underlying tension, right?

1:12:01

Yeah. And then May goes missing. It's like, what

1:12:03

the fuck else is going to happen? And

1:12:06

then Totoro comes along

1:12:10

and calls on the cat bus. And then

1:12:12

the cat bus literally, it's almost like a deus

1:12:14

ex mahina, where the cat bus

1:12:16

just like rolls to, we're going

1:12:19

to May. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it

1:12:21

takes her to May. And then it goes, r-r-r-r-r-r-r, the

1:12:23

hospital, and takes them to the hospital. And they see

1:12:25

that everything's fine with their mom. It

1:12:28

felt a little deus ex-ish. I don't

1:12:30

know what you mean by that. Deus

1:12:32

ex mahina means like a machine of

1:12:34

God or like an act of God,

1:12:36

where like some big saving savior thing

1:12:39

will just kind of come out of nowhere at

1:12:42

the end of a film, like where you

1:12:44

can imagine the writer going, hmm, I've

1:12:46

set up all this conflict in drama. Now, how do

1:12:49

I wrap it up? Oh, a

1:12:51

giant monster comes out of the heavens and

1:12:53

helps every and saves everybody. Yes, the eagles

1:12:55

in Lord of the Rings. Yeah, in a

1:12:57

way, yeah. And it's like, well, how does

1:12:59

that, you know, you have to set that

1:13:01

up and like, what does that mean

1:13:03

for the rest of the characters? So I got that vibe

1:13:06

a little bit from it, but I do think I'm missing

1:13:08

the point. But that is the point that

1:13:10

I got. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I guess

1:13:12

I don't know. Yeah, it's curious, because I always thought

1:13:14

that it was more like Totoro is

1:13:17

the person who has been there the whole time

1:13:19

who does that. The cat bus is just, he

1:13:21

is able to call the cat bus. Yeah. As

1:13:23

another spirit kind of thing. It's almost like a

1:13:25

tool in the story. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, where

1:13:27

I'd be like, no, no, no. Totoro

1:13:29

is the one who is really responsible for

1:13:31

that. For sure. Again, as the neighbor who's

1:13:33

like, yeah, I'm your neighbor. I can also

1:13:35

help. Don't just depend on people, depend on

1:13:37

the spirits. Yeah, there you go. That's great,

1:13:39

Cade. I also really want to

1:13:41

quickly mention the

1:13:44

father in this movie. Yeah. Just

1:13:46

a great dad. He seems like

1:13:48

a nice guy. He's amazing. And

1:13:50

there's so much media that

1:13:53

depicts the classic sitcom

1:13:55

dad who's just like drunk

1:13:57

and useless, basically another.

1:13:59

child in the home for the mom to

1:14:01

take care of. Yeah. Stupid, unhelpful,

1:14:04

and it's always so great to see

1:14:06

a piece of media

1:14:08

depict a good father. Yeah, and

1:14:10

not like going out of his

1:14:12

way, just being like normal, normal

1:14:14

good. Yeah, just like meeting expectations.

1:14:16

Yeah. You know, he moves

1:14:19

his family out here. It's very stressful for him

1:14:21

too. I mean, his wife is sick. His wife

1:14:23

is sick, yeah. And his girls are in this

1:14:25

new place and he makes the best of it

1:14:27

and he helps them. He doesn't dismiss them when,

1:14:30

you know, he doesn't say, oh, you're just imagining

1:14:32

things. He like goes out there with them to

1:14:34

see the forest spirit. He's

1:14:37

like a smart guy. He works for a

1:14:39

university and he's never

1:14:42

dismissive, even

1:14:45

though the things happening to these girls are very like

1:14:47

unbelievable and fantastical. He's just a great

1:14:49

dad. And I read that he was,

1:14:52

a lot of the father figures in Miyazaki's

1:14:55

films are based on his own dad,

1:14:57

who was just like apparently a stand

1:14:59

up guy, a very sensitive man. Yeah,

1:15:01

that's great. Yeah. I also picked

1:15:03

up on that. Like he didn't ever like

1:15:06

pass off anything that they were saying. He's like, yeah,

1:15:08

okay, let's go out and look at the spirits. Like,

1:15:10

let's do it. And like just steered into it and

1:15:12

I could explain why the kids were just also still

1:15:14

so happy. Yeah. You know? Very

1:15:17

refreshing. Yeah, exactly. Good dad. Well,

1:15:20

the last thing I want to know is the one scene where they get all the

1:15:22

acorns. Acorns are there

1:15:24

kind of the whole time, which I think is adorable.

1:15:27

I love when like an acorn, like a

1:15:29

natural thing that kids will find is the

1:15:31

main thing. You know? It's

1:15:33

not gold or some other, you know, some

1:15:35

strange thing that some kids collecting. Like it's

1:15:38

like a little acorn. An acorn is like

1:15:40

a treasure to a little child. Yeah, exactly.

1:15:42

And Casey's too. Anyway. But they plant

1:15:44

them, right? They plant

1:15:47

them in this garden. And

1:15:49

there's got to be some metaphor that I'm just missing or

1:15:51

haven't quite put together about. The

1:15:54

kids said we plant all these acorns

1:15:56

that we got from this gift, from

1:15:58

the spirit. it

1:16:00

and we planted them in your garden. We're really

1:16:02

excited about that. And then

1:16:04

they go out, they see Totoro going

1:16:06

around like jumping over and like kind

1:16:08

of doing some almost shrine

1:16:11

like, not a shrine like,

1:16:14

doing... A little performative ceremony

1:16:16

type thing. Yeah, ceremony. Yeah, yeah,

1:16:18

thank you. And yeah, they go

1:16:20

out there and they just join

1:16:22

in and then he like

1:16:24

pushes up his umbrella and like makes this thing and then

1:16:27

a little thing goes pop and then you get this little

1:16:29

tree and then it grows into not only a

1:16:31

forest but a gigantic tree. Yes. And

1:16:34

they experience it. It's not an imaginary

1:16:36

thing but then you're like the

1:16:39

spirit is using the umbrella that they

1:16:41

gave him to pop up all these

1:16:43

little things. Yeah. And then

1:16:45

they grow a forest and I feel like it's a

1:16:47

metaphor for like, hey, everything's gonna be, everything's gonna be

1:16:49

fine. And they watch the tree

1:16:51

go from or the space go from kind

1:16:53

of barren soil to a gigantic

1:16:56

tree in no time. And it

1:16:58

almost shows like, shows

1:17:01

the kids like, yeah, plant, plant thing. This

1:17:03

is what it can become. Yeah. And

1:17:06

then it may not happen immediately. In fact,

1:17:08

you never see, you just, they go out and the

1:17:10

two little kind of leadens pop

1:17:12

up and you have these two little

1:17:15

adorable leaves coming up and they're super

1:17:17

stoked and they know what that can

1:17:19

become. So it becomes also this metaphor

1:17:22

for the spirits like creating something

1:17:24

or showing you the potential for what it could be

1:17:27

when right now it's just blank soil. Very

1:17:30

good case. And they were also like, they

1:17:32

were also like a

1:17:35

very integral part of that. Yeah. They

1:17:37

didn't happen on the side without them knowing

1:17:39

they like took part in this. They participated.

1:17:41

Yeah. Which is really important.

1:17:44

Have kids participate in stuff. Yeah. It's

1:17:46

gonna be great. Especially nature things. Exactly. Like

1:17:49

if you're gonna plant a garden in your backyard, have your

1:17:51

kid go out there. I mean, they may hate it depending

1:17:53

on the kid. Yeah. And then you

1:17:55

go out there and dig some, dig some holes. Yeah, exactly. Plant

1:17:58

some tomato plants. It's mostly, yeah. unless

1:18:00

they really want to and then just plant the

1:18:02

things because people love that. That's true. I think

1:18:04

most people love to do just a little bit

1:18:06

a little bit of gardening just because then you

1:18:09

can watch it grow. It's one of my favorite

1:18:11

things to do whenever I plant a flower or

1:18:13

plant the thing. I always say flower and I

1:18:15

mean vegetable or whatever. Sure. But you go out

1:18:17

and you can watch it grow every day and

1:18:19

you can see oh, it's just a little bit

1:18:21

bigger now. Yeah. There's a little flower. Like I

1:18:23

just love that. I think everyone does. Very exciting.

1:18:25

Yeah. Well, there you go. That's my neighbor Totoro.

1:18:28

My neighbor Totoro. Casey, it's time for the completely

1:18:30

arbitrary AMA. What a fun way to put it. This

1:18:33

week we got a question and what

1:18:37

is it Alex? And you know what?

1:18:39

It's from, again, it's from Not Set.

1:18:41

Wow. I love Not Set. We're working

1:18:43

on that folks. Yeah, sorry. This

1:18:47

question says what makes a 10

1:18:50

a 10? Ooh. Or to put it

1:18:52

a different way, when you picture a

1:18:54

perfect tree, what characteristics does it have?

1:18:56

How curious. Well, Casey, yes. So when

1:18:58

you and I have a pretty good

1:19:00

idea, maybe we should do each other's.

1:19:03

Ooh. Oh, okay. And then we can

1:19:05

supplement with, you know, but when

1:19:08

you're when you are like, yes, this tree is

1:19:10

a fucking 10 out of 10. I

1:19:13

know that you have some criteria

1:19:16

for that. I do. As do I.

1:19:19

Do you want to try giving each other? Yes,

1:19:21

I think so. Correcting and replacing. Yeah. Do you want

1:19:23

to go first? You want me to go first? I'll

1:19:25

go first. All right. So I think your perfect 10

1:19:27

out of 10 tree. You

1:19:30

love a superlative tree. I do. I love

1:19:32

a tree that is a superlative tree. And

1:19:34

like not almost superlative, it has to be

1:19:37

the tallest number

1:19:39

one. Yeah. Or it has to be

1:19:42

the widest or the oldest. Yeah. And

1:19:44

I think that's a big part of

1:19:46

your criteria. I also

1:19:48

know that you love conifers. Yes, I do. I like

1:19:50

conifers best. You have a bit of a conifer bias.

1:19:52

Not that that's a bad thing. No, it's a good

1:19:55

thing. I will admit that it is probably the way

1:19:57

that most people should live their lives. Sure. With a

1:19:59

conifer bias. And and

1:20:01

you love the Pacific Northwest because you you grew

1:20:03

up here and you like it here I do

1:20:05

yeah, and so I am looking at I'm

1:20:08

looking at a the tree that the

1:20:10

trees that you would give a perfect 10 out of

1:20:12

10 Yeah are probably going to land in the Pacific

1:20:14

Northwest. They're gonna be a conifer and they're gonna be

1:20:17

the tallest tree in the world Yeah, like one of

1:20:19

the yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's pretty good. So I

1:20:21

mean you you got

1:20:23

your coast redwoods Uh-huh Your

1:20:27

your bristlecones high I think those are the

1:20:30

only two so far as I know not

1:20:32

really Pacific Northwest tree Yeah, but yeah, they're

1:20:34

the Western conover sort. Yeah. Yeah, you know,

1:20:36

I think it's pretty good Yeah, I'll

1:20:38

I'll comment on it and then I'll do you

1:20:40

okay, because I also think a

1:20:43

big thing for me is like how Fascinating

1:20:45

and interesting the tree

1:20:48

is in a physical sense

1:20:51

because I like spiritual trees I think

1:20:53

they're important, but I also don't make

1:20:55

a lot of my perfect tens out

1:20:57

of a spiritual place

1:21:00

Mostly because most people have a

1:21:02

different spiritual relationship with any tree Like

1:21:05

some people every tree is a 10 out

1:21:07

of 10 sure and other people have a

1:21:09

different relationship with it It's not

1:21:11

that I'm trying to honor all relationships by

1:21:14

having zero relationship kind of thing Like, you

1:21:16

know, I'm not gonna give out any candy

1:21:18

to anybody because I don't have enough for

1:21:20

everyone It is more of a

1:21:22

thing where when I look at a tree my relationship

1:21:24

isn't so much I mean it probably is to some

1:21:26

extent and I just don't really know how to describe

1:21:28

it But it's not so much of a spiritual thing

1:21:32

In a strict sense where I believe in, you

1:21:34

know, essentially the Kami or Kadama of

1:21:36

a tree kotama It is

1:21:38

more of a when I see one and I'm

1:21:40

just like, oh my god Yeah,

1:21:43

look how complex it is. I'm like look

1:21:45

what it had to do because I I

1:21:48

Tried to see the tree as

1:21:50

it has grown and the story

1:21:52

that it's gone through that it's

1:21:54

put on Itself year after

1:21:57

year after year for ideally thousands

1:21:59

of years And those are

1:22:01

the kind of trees I'm just like, wow.

1:22:04

It's got to stun me, even if it's not the biggest

1:22:06

tree in the world necessarily, if it

1:22:09

has a stunning story

1:22:11

in and of itself, biologically

1:22:13

speaking and physically speaking, that's

1:22:16

just what does it for me. Almost

1:22:18

like a literally legendary tree. Yeah, yeah,

1:22:20

yeah, yeah, yeah. The more legendary it

1:22:22

is in a physical

1:22:25

sense, the more

1:22:27

I am like stunned by it. In

1:22:30

contrast, I think that you are

1:22:32

someone who gets more driven

1:22:35

by a metaphysical sense of

1:22:37

a tree in two

1:22:39

ways. One, a perfect ten for you

1:22:42

is a tree that has

1:22:44

such an immense spiritual

1:22:46

and cultural value

1:22:48

that you're just like, wow.

1:22:52

That has power to it in a sense

1:22:54

that can't be grasped. You can't look at

1:22:56

it, you can't touch it, but you know

1:22:58

it's there. It's more than a tree. Yeah,

1:23:00

exactly. And it's like the more

1:23:03

of more than a tree it can be,

1:23:05

the more likely you are to raise that

1:23:08

value. I also think that you are a

1:23:10

nastit, an estit. I

1:23:14

kind of mash those together. You're

1:23:16

one who has an eye for

1:23:18

aesthetics. So if a tree is kind

1:23:20

of the biggest but it doesn't really

1:23:22

shine, you know, it's like, oh great.

1:23:25

It's one of the biggest buildings in the

1:23:27

world but it's just made of nothing but

1:23:29

concrete. It's not going to do it for

1:23:31

you. But it could be a smaller building

1:23:33

made with such an eye towards good design

1:23:35

and well-placed colors and schemes that will also

1:23:38

raise you up. So the aesthetic value of

1:23:40

a tree writ large, I think, is something

1:23:42

else. The final thing is

1:23:44

it needs to have a mango growing

1:23:46

on it. Yes. That

1:23:49

is, I think, the thing. Maybe

1:23:52

not just a mango but some

1:23:54

fruit that you just cannot live

1:23:56

without because it's so delicious. Yes.

1:24:00

is not driven by but driven towards

1:24:02

experimenting and finding really good food and

1:24:04

really having appreciation for that. Yeah. So

1:24:06

if it can come from a tree,

1:24:08

you're like, yeah, that's the game over,

1:24:10

man. I think you nailed it, Case.

1:24:13

Yeah. Especially the mango thing. Yeah, that's pretty simple because

1:24:15

you just gave a mango 10 out of 10 and

1:24:17

I believe your reason was it makes

1:24:19

mangoes. Yeah, like no shit. It

1:24:23

is amazing that mangoes just like

1:24:27

come from a tree. They just grow that

1:24:29

way. They just grow, they just pop out.

1:24:31

It's like the most perfect food. Yeah. Yeah,

1:24:33

you nailed it. Yes. Nice

1:24:36

job. That's what it takes to be a 10 out of 10. Thank

1:24:38

you so much for your question. That was interesting. I'm

1:24:40

really interested to hear what other people look for

1:24:42

in a good tree. Yeah. Honestly,

1:24:44

that should be a post. I want to know about this. Maybe

1:24:47

we'll put this somewhere so people can comment

1:24:49

because we want to know. Yeah, please. Because

1:24:51

I'm curious because like I said, everyone has

1:24:53

a different opinion. Someone might be like, yeah,

1:24:56

actually oranges are 10 out of

1:24:58

10 because oranges are like way better than

1:25:00

bananas or anything else. Mango, whatever. And they

1:25:02

don't care what it looks like. Yeah, exactly.

1:25:05

Totally. So it could be. If you've got

1:25:07

a question for us, join

1:25:09

up on Completely Arbitrary

1:25:12

Premium. That's right. Our

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exciting new support platform. We

1:25:16

have a couple of different plans on there.

1:25:18

We have annual subscriptions. We have gifted subscriptions

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1:25:24

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1:25:34

the more questions we get, the more we

1:25:37

do. The AMA is actually going to be

1:25:39

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1:25:41

how we do it. But we also take individual questions

1:25:43

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sign up at that $6 level and get your

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1:25:53

two different airs here. There is. There's

1:25:56

a lot of airs here. It's

1:26:00

not great for a science podcast. Lots

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of errors. Oh, you mean, okay.

1:26:09

That's arbitrarypod.supercast.com to support this

1:26:11

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1:26:13

much and we love you

1:26:15

so much for supporting it.

1:26:18

Casey Clapp. Alex Gross and we did it. We

1:26:20

did it. I, you know, I

1:26:23

dragged Totoro a little bit. But

1:26:25

even, even a, you

1:26:28

know, for me, a

1:26:30

mid-shelf Miyazaki film is a

1:26:32

great experience. Yeah. It's

1:26:34

all relative, but it's all top tier. Hey,

1:26:36

this is why I still like Star Wars

1:26:38

episodes, one, two, and three. Oh, brother.

1:26:41

I'll stand by it. We'll have our

1:26:43

theme month on that at some point.

1:26:45

We just reviewed Rock, the same. Revenge

1:26:47

of the Pith. We've talked about that.

1:26:49

We have. Oh, God. Back

1:26:52

of the cone. This is so good. It's

1:26:54

literally asking for it. The Phantom Fur. We

1:26:56

already did it. Yes. We've done

1:26:58

this. Yeah. And hey,

1:27:00

next week we've got Nausicaa. So if

1:27:02

you're following along and watching all these

1:27:05

movies with us, watch Nausicaa,

1:27:07

gather your thoughts, and

1:27:09

send us an email because it is going down.

1:27:11

That's right. Hello at

1:27:13

arbitrarypod.com. That's right. That's our email. Did

1:27:15

we, do you know? Yeah, we got

1:27:17

that. Okay. I was just

1:27:19

going to show everyone. Was he saying hello

1:27:21

to someone over there? I did think he

1:27:24

was seeing a ghost, a comic in

1:27:26

my home. Yeah. Spirit of

1:27:28

my apartment complex. The spirit of the basic car.

1:27:32

Thank you so much for listening to Completely

1:27:34

Arbitrary's Triyazaki. We will see you next time.

1:27:38

Goodbye. Thank

1:27:52

you. in

1:28:00

any vandals.