0:02

Everything in health and healthcare is fundamentally

0:04

about people in relationships. It's about

0:06

that dynamic between a

0:08

patient and a provider and the trust that

0:10

occurs. As I think about

0:13

the role we have. We are trusted

0:16

in these communities and these nearly ten thousand

0:19

sites across the country. We

0:21

also have pharmacists and pharmacy

0:24

technicians who represent the populations

0:26

we're looking to serve. That's

0:29

Dr q Ree, Senior Vice president

0:32

of CDs Health and chief Medical Officer

0:34

of ETNA. He and his team lead the innovation,

0:37

design, and implementation of new

0:39

health care management and population health

0:41

solutions. As a longstanding public

0:43

health advocate, Dr Ree believes in transforming

0:46

health equity through the use of data to better

0:48

predict, personalize, and prevent some

0:50

of the greatest health challenges of our times.

0:54

So fifty of our pharmacy technicians

0:57

are minorities, and of

0:59

our pharmacists are minorities, and

1:01

so one of the most fundamental parts

1:04

of addressing health equity

1:07

is, in my opinion, the making sure

1:09

your workforce represents the populations

1:11

that you're meaning to serve. And so

1:13

once you think about pieces like

1:15

that, then so much of it is about the

1:18

conversations and the ability to

1:21

better personalize the connections

1:24

with people to help them address something

1:26

like vaccine hesitancy. Once again,

1:29

the role of the pharmacists, the role the pharmacy technician,

1:31

the role of the doctor, the nurse, the nurse practitioner

1:34

is such an important part of building

1:36

that trust. I'm

1:41

Justin Beck, founder and CEO of

1:43

Contact World. I'm here with my co

1:45

host Katherine Nelson and DT Pava

1:48

and over the coming months, we'll be talking to scientists,

1:51

researchers, celebrities, experts,

1:53

anyone who's been affected by COVID and

1:56

getting to the bottom of how we can improve public

1:58

health together. We may not have all

2:00

the answers, but you deserve to understand what

2:02

goes on in your neighborhood and the decisions

2:04

that will affect you and your family's health. Welcome

2:09

back to Contact World, Truth and Health everyone.

2:12

So we're entering a new phase of the pandemic.

2:15

It's a phase that's going to take adjustments in the

2:17

way that we live our lives, and it's really

2:19

going to test our humanity. It's going

2:21

to test our concept of civil liberty

2:23

for the sake of keeping other people safe, and

2:26

it's going to test the way that employers and businesses

2:29

conduct themselves, especially

2:31

so we don't actually create more disparities

2:33

or inequities that we've talked about during this

2:35

show. So deep t In this

2:37

our last episode of season one, you had

2:40

the incredible opportunity to speak with Dr

2:42

Rei, Senior vice president for CVS

2:44

Health and chief Medical officer for ETNA.

2:47

CVS operates about ten thousand pharmacies

2:50

and ETNA services more than twenty million

2:52

members in the United States, so this is pretty cool opportunity.

2:56

It felt to me like this discussion captured

2:58

all of the themes from season one, namely

3:00

health equity, data, and

3:03

the importance of public and private partnerships.

3:05

Can you tell us more about what you learn? Absolutely?

3:08

Justin I mean talking to Dr Rie was really

3:10

about prioritizing equity in the light

3:12

of current pandemic and also

3:15

how private companies like CBS

3:17

health Care place such an important role in targeting

3:20

social problems such as health equity.

3:22

We talked about the role of data, the

3:25

collection of data, the predicting and trends

3:27

and outcomes, as well as how

3:29

that should be converted into insights

3:32

make them more intelligent than actionable. Also

3:35

how important it is in the

3:37

first place to collect that data

3:40

and identifying these health and equities

3:42

and their drivers is essential for achieving

3:46

success with the most common problems

3:48

in the world. So I would just say

3:50

monitoring the health and equities, which is very,

3:52

very crucial, but also to find

3:55

out who is being left behind? How do

3:57

you find that out? How do you inform health

3:59

wall to these programs practices that

4:02

aim to, you know, closing

4:04

the existing gaps. That is only possible once

4:06

we collected or we have did it and we can

4:08

work up talent insights. And

4:10

I know justin that we have been ourselves

4:13

also working a lot in this direction. I

4:15

would love to have your take on the rout

4:17

of data. Well. I love

4:19

how you and Catherine tend to have such

4:22

an optimistic view of the way that

4:24

the systems work, and as you guys know, I'm

4:26

an optimist, but I actually think that what

4:28

we've learned this year together with our

4:30

listeners, is that a lot of the data

4:32

is actually deliberately eliminated from

4:34

the system because you can't fix what you don't

4:37

know. I think that one powerful

4:39

term that really stuck out to me was when Abigail

4:42

echo Hawk called it data genocide,

4:44

and that's a really harsh term, which

4:46

I understand, you know, she uses for maximum

4:49

impact because that's what it really is. But

4:51

what I think about the role of data, I'm really

4:54

excited to be partnered with SAT,

4:56

your Health Leadership Institute, and the

4:58

Health Equity Tracker project, which is

5:00

a multi month initiative involving

5:02

numerous stakeholders from people in Congress

5:04

to membership of a bunch of organizations

5:07

at the highest levels, and trying to figure

5:09

out how to fix the system the way

5:11

that we collect data around health equity.

5:14

And I think that the broad theme is that we

5:16

can't rely exclusively on government

5:19

to do this. It has to be something

5:21

that from our perspective and what contact

5:23

world is doing, it has to be almost

5:25

forced and installed. So what I see

5:28

is working with local health agencies

5:30

and working with private organizations

5:32

to install ways that they record the health equity

5:35

data and then we get the insights. Yeah.

5:37

And I also think as much as we talk about

5:40

you know, the government peace and our

5:42

part in finding and sourcing for solutions,

5:44

it's also good to see a big company like

5:46

CBS being vested in that

5:48

and having a stake in seeing

5:51

that there are inequities out there and

5:53

that it's not just a burden or

5:55

responsibility of the government to settle

5:58

that absolutely, Just and Catherine,

6:00

but you both are actually saying, is that what is the result

6:02

of this pandemic. Maybe it's been accelerated a little

6:05

bit, but what we've actually come to realize

6:07

is that what we need is a

6:09

collaborative and a public

6:11

facing data platform, which is exactly

6:14

what Health Equities Record Project is all about,

6:16

which is completely devoted

6:19

to addressing certain societal

6:21

issues which have been always there, like healthy quicky

6:23

implications for vulnerable populations,

6:26

but also they would eventually help

6:28

in population health

6:31

in general for everybody. And

6:33

to that extent, we also talked a little

6:35

bit about data philanthropy. What

6:37

we talked about was that how important it is

6:39

in terms of data donation in the pursuit

6:42

of helping others. I was reading

6:44

a report that said that today approximately

6:46

half of all the deaths in the world go unrecorded,

6:49

and health policy decisions are often based

6:52

on inadequate information. And

6:54

we do talk about a lot of data being

6:56

generated, at least in the private sector because

6:58

of the big data and all the other technological

7:01

advances, but society

7:03

as such has not yet fully embraced

7:06

the remarkable benefits that databased

7:09

predictions can contribute to the global prosperity

7:11

and resilience at the times of crisis like this one.

7:14

And I definitely agree with the

7:16

fact that it is amperative that private

7:18

and public sector organizations work together

7:21

to construct ways to safely

7:23

and productively utilize data for the benefit

7:25

of communities around the world. What is your

7:27

take on that, Catherine, I think

7:30

collaboration is the key, and unfortunately

7:33

it's how does it happen. How

7:35

do we mend the communication

7:37

gap between the public and the private

7:39

sector so that they do work hand in hand. But

7:42

definitely we need to have those conversations

7:44

and really emerging because at the end of the

7:46

day, we all have the same interests and that

7:48

is to see things equalized across

7:50

the board for everyone. Smart Health

7:53

r m R core software with contact World

7:55

is actually focused on the bridge

7:58

between local health agencies and in

8:00

the community, and namely Dr

8:02

Allen, who you remember we have interviewed earlier

8:04

this year, the chief of Programs at the

8:06

National Association of County and City Health

8:08

Officials, talks about how

8:11

the other stakeholders in public health include

8:14

schools, employers, healthcare

8:16

providers, long term care facilities,

8:18

mental health and drug treatment facilities,

8:21

and the corner store slash pharmacies.

8:23

You know. So it takes people

8:26

like Dr Ree, It takes people

8:28

like Daniel Dawes, It takes people

8:30

like Dr Allen at Nature, you

8:32

know, beyond just the companies, it

8:34

takes the people that are carrying this torch

8:37

to fix the system. It takes people

8:39

like us too, that are looking at all of the

8:41

issues that exist and actually

8:44

just saying, like you said, Katherine, what are we

8:46

gonna do about it? Well, we're

8:48

going to implement systems

8:50

and local health agencies and these stakeholders

8:53

that help enable the use of data

8:56

and collection of data. But we also

8:58

have a big job to do because while

9:00

we're trying to talk about data philanthropy,

9:02

one of the issues we face is the abusive

9:04

data from social media companies and

9:07

other companies like that. That's like a

9:09

big challenge because on one hand, we're

9:11

talking about why it's important that we're not

9:13

going to use data like our company isn't even

9:15

allowed to our charter restricts our use

9:17

of commercializing personal data

9:19

like that. We don't talk about that enough. But

9:22

when we think about data philanthropy, we're

9:24

swimming against abuse of data

9:26

by a lot of multinationals, and

9:28

it's hard to cut through that. Yeah,

9:31

very interesting justin and in that spirit,

9:34

we had also talked about a little bit on

9:36

the data privacy and

9:38

how trust and transparency are such an important

9:41

part of it. There are ways rising

9:43

new techniques where companies

9:45

and governments should be thinking about privacy

9:48

by design to understand what is the

9:50

data that you need to collect, how do you minimize

9:52

the data for the

9:54

insights you need to generate. You don't

9:56

need to collect everything you know, because that's

9:58

when you start very in lots of data

10:01

that may or may not be used in the end, and that

10:03

may be also used not in the right

10:05

ways. So I think we

10:07

all equally need to start working

10:10

on privacy by design and ethics

10:12

when it leads to data based

10:15

strategies. I totally agree

10:17

with that, and I also think another piece is

10:19

to add some accountability

10:21

for the outcomes. Right when

10:24

we're collecting the data, how is

10:26

the public being made aware that this is

10:28

how it's being used and how it's being used to benefit

10:30

them in the long haul? I promise

10:33

you if they're really fully aware, then

10:35

they will become more vested in the outcome, and that's

10:37

why they will be more willing to share about

10:39

how it's going to help them help their community

10:42

and make things better across the board. But

10:44

when we take the data and we do god

10:47

knows whatever happens to it, and

10:49

then the person gets more reluctant.

10:51

Why should I allow you to have access

10:54

to my data when you're going to use

10:56

it for you know, other things and not necessarily

10:58

for the benefit of the public as it should be

11:01

used, right. And then there was one other

11:03

thing that we touched on earlier we talked about,

11:05

like the other larger initiatives

11:07

that might spring forth as a result of the pandemic.

11:11

I learned this morning about something

11:13

called the Driving Public Health Forward

11:15

Plan, which is what is being kind of

11:17

shaped as a five year plan that

11:19

is kind of building on everything we've learned from the

11:21

pandemic and making a more concerted

11:24

effort to resource public health agencies

11:26

and implement things like we're doing

11:28

with the Health Equity Tracker project. So

11:31

the stakeholders involved National Association,

11:33

the County and City Health Officials with whom

11:35

we're aligned, the Association

11:38

for State and Territorial Health Officials, the

11:40

Big Cities Health Coalition, and the Public

11:43

Health Accreditation Board, and

11:45

what we learned from this is that this consortium

11:48

is going to be working on data and

11:50

technology, including integration, which again

11:52

touches on a lot of the things we're talking about, expanding

11:55

workforce capacity, health

11:57

equity, governance to support public

11:59

health agency finance to provide

12:01

services, and then public private

12:03

partnerships and community engagement. I

12:06

thought it was really cool to see because if

12:08

there's something good that came out of the pandemic,

12:10

especially for public health, it's that

12:12

this has caused such a disaster that

12:15

nobody can ignore the problems that

12:17

occurred at the point of care

12:19

and at the community level. Ever again,

12:22

right, so it's exciting to just be a part of

12:24

this movement and be a part of creating

12:26

the solutions to fix things instead

12:29

of just talking about them. Yeah, absolutely

12:31

true. I mean I think it actually boils

12:33

down to social determinants of

12:35

health that we actually often talk about and

12:37

strongly propagated by all soo Daniel DAOs

12:40

who is the co founder of Contact World, where

12:42

we talk about the social

12:44

determinant of health being not just health,

12:46

but also where people are born, there grow,

12:48

they live, they work, the age and

12:51

all sorts of socio economic factors and education,

12:54

et cetera. Catherine, what do you

12:56

think about social determinants of health as it ties

12:58

into healthcare and etiquity.

13:00

Just going back to what Justin was talking about

13:02

first, is I think it's important

13:05

to realize that there are so many different solutions

13:07

that can be generated, and as

13:10

time goes on, we're always gonna

13:13

see more and more people get

13:15

involved. And I am

13:17

impressed with the level of creativity

13:19

and not just what we do and the solutions

13:21

that we provide here at Contact, but also

13:24

to be able to see that people will put things

13:26

together that will address issues

13:28

in the future. So I applaud

13:30

those efforts, and I also want

13:32

to caution people that just because

13:34

one thing is being done in one end doesn't mean there

13:37

are other things that can be done to make

13:39

things better. So I'm glad to hear about

13:41

what you've learned, Justin, and it's amazing,

13:44

and I hope we get to be a part of

13:46

that in some way, shape or form.

13:48

But as far as what you were saying earlier, DT,

13:51

I loved when you said that we should make

13:53

health a shared value. How

13:55

about that? Right? It sounds

13:58

so basic, but it's not. It's

14:00

gonna require some adjustment for people

14:02

to actually see that, because

14:05

there's always gonna be people who,

14:07

because of their backgrounds, because of

14:10

socio economics, who are always going to

14:12

see healthcare as a privilege and

14:14

not something that's like a necessity

14:16

or something that they should have access

14:19

to. On an ongoing basis, you

14:21

know, five years from now when we're talking, it's

14:23

gonna be hey, this has been normalized.

14:26

This is our new normal, that healthcare

14:28

is a shared value. So for

14:30

this tenth and final episode of Contact World, Truth

14:33

and Health Season one, it's fitting

14:35

that we feature another public health and health equity

14:37

icon and Dr q Ree. Building

14:40

on what we've learned from Daniel Dawes and the newly

14:42

launched Health Equity Tracker project, Q

14:45

brings a unique perspective of putting health

14:47

equity into practice at massive

14:49

scale since his role

14:51

influences operations for about ten

14:54

thousand CDs pharmacy locations

14:56

and more than twenty million ETNA insurance

14:58

members. So let's dive into

15:00

this discussion between DT and Q. Hello,

15:13

doctor Ee, it's a pleasure to have you on your

15:15

show today and thanks for making the time. So

15:18

first of all, congratulations on assuming

15:21

your new role as the Senior vice

15:23

president for CBS Health and chief

15:25

Medical Officer at ETNA, where

15:27

I believe you will be leading the innovation and

15:30

design and implementation of

15:32

integrated health care management strategies and

15:34

population health solutions. As

15:36

a start, would you like to talk a little bit about

15:39

your new role and the transition you recently

15:41

made. I've been interested

15:43

in committed to health equity in my whole career,

15:46

so I'm excited for this extraordinary

15:49

opportunity to work with nearly

15:51

three thousand amazing

15:53

people across this country who are looking

15:56

to address, especially during this pandemic

15:58

health equity. Just a little bit about

16:00

my personal history and my personal background

16:03

is I'm a primary care physician by training,

16:05

so internal medicine and pediatrics. My

16:07

first job right out of residency was actually

16:10

in Washington, d C. In Columbia Heights

16:12

at the corner of fourteenth and Irving, where

16:15

I served mostly underserved populations,

16:17

many immigrant populations from El Salvador

16:19

in Ethiopia, and right across the street

16:21

was the CBS Pharmacy, and

16:24

at that time, you know, you can clearly

16:26

recognize that health and healthcare as a team effort.

16:28

The pharmacists across the street played a very important

16:31

role in the care that we delivered in our

16:33

community health center. We generally

16:35

focus on health equity as the foundational

16:37

element of this show, and it's also a

16:39

major focus for our company. I

16:42

mean you already mentioned about you know how close

16:44

you are to health equity as a cause. How

16:47

does your new rule at CBS Health

16:49

and now provide you the opportunity to

16:51

pursue it. We

16:53

at CVS Health are playing a very important

16:56

role in addressing health equity and everything we

16:58

do, particularly during this pandemic.

17:00

So as I reflect on the

17:03

extraordinary team of health and healthcare

17:05

professionals at CVS

17:07

Health, over fifty thousand pharmacists,

17:11

pharmacy texts, doctors,

17:13

nurses, nurse practitioners.

17:15

During this pandemic, we've been

17:18

able to deliver over fifteen million

17:20

tests for COVID. Over

17:22

half of those are in underserved communities.

17:25

We've also delivered over ten million vaccinations,

17:29

so nearly a third of those are

17:31

representing underrepresenting minorities

17:34

who are being vaccinated. Of course, we know

17:36

that this pandemic has impacted

17:39

disproportionately those populations

17:41

African Americans, Hispanics,

17:44

and it's such an important responsibility for

17:46

us to make sure we vaccinate

17:49

those populations, to address

17:51

health disparities and promote health equity.

17:53

So, as you rightly said that, you know CVS has

17:55

been involved with the testing of COVID nineteen

17:57

and more recently, you know the administration of vaccine

18:00

is received directly from the federal government, and

18:02

vaccine equity being one of the most important

18:04

areas of attention at this point in time. In

18:07

that context, what lessons have you

18:09

learned in improving access to

18:12

as well as trust in vaccine, for

18:14

let's say, much in less populations with limited

18:17

access to internet as well as limited

18:19

access to quality health care for instance, I

18:22

actually reflect on once again

18:24

my experience as a community health center physician

18:27

and how everything in health

18:29

and health care is fundamentally about people

18:31

in relationships. It's about that dynamic

18:34

between a patient and a provider and the

18:36

trust that occurs. And so

18:39

as I think about the role

18:41

we have, we are trusted in

18:43

these communities. In these nearly ten thousand

18:46

sites across the country, we

18:48

also have pharmacists and pharmacy

18:51

technicians who represent the populations

18:53

we're looking to serve. So fifty percent

18:55

of our pharmacy technicians are minorities

18:58

and of our pharmacists or minorities,

19:01

and so one of the most fundamental

19:03

parts of addressing

19:06

health equity is, in my opinion, the

19:08

making sure your workforce represents the populations

19:11

that you're meaning to serve. And so

19:13

once you think about pieces like

19:15

that, then so much of it is about the

19:18

conversations and the ability to

19:21

better personalize the connections

19:24

with people to help them address something

19:26

like vaccine hesitancy. You know, an

19:28

individual might be afraid of side effects, or they

19:30

might have read something online that

19:32

gave them a certain impression. And so once

19:35

again, the role of the pharmacists, the role the

19:37

pharmacy technician, the role of the doctor,

19:39

the nurse, the nurse practitioner, and

19:41

the broad range of health professionals that we have

19:43

across our enterprise,

19:45

across those nearly ten thousand sites,

19:48

either in person or virtually, is

19:50

such an important part of building that

19:52

trust. I also think the

19:54

role we have in public private partnerships.

19:57

I think we can see during this pandemic

19:59

the role of companies like Fiser and Maderna

20:01

and CBS Health and how

20:03

we partner with state, local and

20:06

federal government agencies is so important

20:08

to partner together to serve those communities,

20:11

particularly communities of color. Right,

20:14

it's important that you highlight how CBS

20:16

has such a diverse population and serious

20:18

locations. I mean, I was hearing one of your interviews

20:20

where you said that they are in places which

20:23

are actually identified by CDC Vulnerability

20:26

Index as socially vulnerable.

20:28

Right. And I believe like what you're saying

20:30

is about fifty of non white population

20:32

is actually serving the communities which

20:34

are actually being served by the same community.

20:37

So definitely has a great rule to play in terms

20:39

of trust. And I also believe

20:41

that during the spandemic, more than ever, marginalized

20:43

communities or communities of color are aware

20:46

of disparities in healthcare systems

20:48

and that they're receiving low quality of care.

20:51

And I think that's the reason that they need

20:53

to be addressed from trusted partners ad trusted

20:55

messengers. So that's a great work that you're doing there. At

20:58

the same time, according to you, que, which

21:00

role do you think does data

21:02

and analytics play in achieving equitable

21:04

access to care? And also let's say equitable

21:07

data collection for instance from goments. The

21:11

principle of data in my view, and I'm

21:13

also reflecting on my past

21:15

decade at IBM, where we looked at the role

21:17

of data and analytics and artificial intelligence

21:20

and in supporting and advancing and transforming

21:22

health and healthcare, and we're applying many

21:24

of those same principles here at CVS Health.

21:27

So the concept that I want to

21:29

highlight for the listeners is it's not just

21:31

about the data, but it's about

21:33

the insights you get from the data. And so

21:36

the piece that I want to highlight

21:38

as it relates to data is that it's

21:40

important to have trust as you collect

21:42

data. And so, once again going back

21:44

to the principles that you want

21:46

your workforce to represent the populations

21:49

you serve, you want them to also

21:51

be represented of those populations because

21:53

of the sensitivity. That's important as

21:56

it relates to collecting what I would call

21:58

health disparity relevant data, so race

22:00

and ethnicity, for example. We're very

22:02

proud of the fact that we collect

22:04

that data in a very sensitive and trusted

22:07

way, and so data trust is important.

22:09

But then, as you stated, the next

22:11

piece is how you translate that data into

22:14

insights that are actionable, that

22:16

are relevant, and that help address

22:19

help disparities. And so the

22:21

ability to translate those insights,

22:24

I like to say you need to use

22:26

the data and the analytics and the artificial intelligence

22:29

to predict, personalize,

22:32

and then ultimately prevent the

22:34

outcome like COVID hospitalization

22:37

that you're looking to address. And so our

22:40

ability to leverage our nearly seven

22:43

data scientists to play

22:45

a role in translating that data into

22:47

insights. They're a big part of the team. I mentioned

22:49

the pharmacists and the pharmacy text. The

22:52

seven data scientists play a very important

22:54

role in translating that

22:56

data into insights. And one great

22:58

example that is we learned quite a bit

23:00

as it relates to the flu, and you can imagine

23:03

there's a lot of retrospective data

23:05

related to flu vaccination rates

23:07

that have historically been delivered

23:10

at and through a CVS pharmacy

23:12

and so our ability to use

23:15

that data and then apply predictive

23:17

analytics with those data scientists and then

23:19

personalize with accuracy

23:22

the individuals who are likely not

23:25

to get vaccinated. Then

23:27

the next piece of that is personalizing an intervention

23:30

that we know will close that gap, Because

23:32

it's one thing to know, it's another

23:34

thing to figure out how to reduce

23:37

the gap and get someone who normally wouldn't get

23:39

vaccinated to be vaccinated. And some

23:41

people it's the mode of communication,

23:44

it's the manner in which that communication is brought.

23:46

It might be issues of vaccine

23:48

efficacy or safety that need to be communicated

23:50

effectively to that individual to have

23:53

him or her address that vaccine hesitancy.

23:55

That might play a role. I also think in

23:57

the age of the pandemic, convenience and

24:00

access. The fact that Americans

24:03

are within ten miles of the CBS plays

24:05

a very important role. You know, my experience

24:07

as a primary care physician is that

24:09

many people spend a lot of time in waiting

24:11

rooms to see their doctor and

24:14

hospital settings, and especially in the age of

24:16

the pandemic, many people are looking

24:18

for the access and convenience of their

24:20

local pharmacy and the trusted broker

24:22

of a pharmacists to deliver

24:24

that vaccine very quickly. So

24:28

I think those are very important factors.

24:30

But as I wanted to emphasize, leveraging

24:32

data isn't sufficient. You have to translate

24:34

it into insights, and the team of data

24:36

scientists that we have play a very important role

24:39

working with our healthcare professionals. Absolutely,

24:42

I mean I'm hearing three things. Of course, one is

24:44

collection of data itself, which you

24:46

know I was also reading a federal study

24:48

that said that, you know, race and ethnicity data

24:51

is missing for nearly half of cornavirus

24:53

vaccine recipients, and this lack of data

24:56

is actually leading to inequatable response to the

24:58

pandemic. So collecting that data and

25:00

making sense of the data. At the same

25:02

time, when you talk about the transparency

25:05

and trust right and you mentioned

25:07

about AI and technology, which is going to be actually

25:09

not just in health, every sphere of every

25:11

industry is going to be very omnipresent. And

25:14

I myself actually worked during the pandemic

25:16

or with m I T on one of the largest contact

25:18

tracing solutions and realize

25:21

that how important it is to

25:23

have privacy by design integrated into

25:25

the systems in terms of collecting it. And

25:28

at the same time, when you talk about converting

25:30

that into insights, you know, how do you use it.

25:33

Would you like to shed some light on how do

25:35

we balance privacy and at a collection

25:38

when implementing technology to deal with public

25:40

health crisis like this or even otherwise.

25:43

Once again, everything in health and health care is about

25:45

trust. It's about those teams that play

25:47

a role healthcare professionals, data scientists

25:50

and ultimately for the

25:52

the citizens, the consumer, the

25:54

patient, the member. I can't

25:56

under emphasize the importance of trust

25:58

and transparency as

26:01

you apply technology.

26:03

And so there is an extraordinary

26:05

volume of data that exists. As you

26:07

suggested, many industries,

26:09

retail, financial industries are leveraging

26:12

big data and big volumes

26:14

of data to apply

26:16

AI algorithms, machine learning algorithms

26:18

to better predict, personalize, and

26:20

serve their customers. There's also

26:23

a variety of data sets, so once again

26:25

that's really important too. Connecting

26:27

different data sets is also important. The

26:29

volume, the variety, the velocity

26:31

of that data is important. And then I would

26:33

also suggest the veracity of that data. We all

26:36

know we've been in situations where

26:38

perhaps we felt that someone had the wrong

26:40

data on us. You know, I've seen patients

26:42

were like, no, that's not accurate, doctor E. I don't know where

26:45

that came from. I'm not on that met And

26:47

so this ability to make sure we're

26:49

putting those four vs in. But the last

26:51

V is the value. And so

26:54

I do think we live in an age as

26:56

it relates to big data, where many

26:58

people are more willing to

27:01

share their data in a trusted, in transparent

27:03

way when they see value back to them

27:05

and they see those insights are actual

27:08

and that they help them. As I just suggested,

27:10

our ability with a high

27:12

level of accuracy to be able to personalize

27:14

interventions for people who normally wouldn't

27:16

get the flu shot and then have

27:19

them experience getting the flu shot is

27:21

to me an important example of

27:23

that. And so the broader

27:25

concept that I want to highlight is that we all

27:28

have this extraordinary data

27:30

that is associated with us, and

27:33

the concept of data privacy is important,

27:36

but even the concept of data philanthropy

27:38

is important. Individuals can consider

27:40

how they could donate their data. The last

27:43

decade IBM, I had so many experiences

27:45

where people would send me emails,

27:48

people from all over the world and saying, you

27:50

know, I want to donate my data to Watson

27:52

of multiple scross, as I have cancer. I

27:55

know that if I donate this it might

27:57

help others if we're able

27:59

to provide that database where

28:01

actionable insights and AI could be

28:03

applied to better predict and prevent you

28:06

know, the consequences of these conditions.

28:08

So we have to focus

28:10

on the trust and the teams that build that

28:12

trust, and ultimately that's what health care

28:14

is about. But data privacy,

28:17

data trust could lead us to principles

28:19

of data philanthropy. If there's ever

28:22

a time I would highlight part of

28:24

the challenges of expediting

28:27

or accelerating science and going from

28:29

discovery to delivery revolves

28:32

around issues of data trust and

28:34

also recruiting people into clinical trials.

28:36

If you can imagine a new model where

28:39

you empowered individuals to

28:41

participate and donate their data

28:43

and be an active participat in clinical trials,

28:46

there's extraordinary opportunities to

28:48

also transform science and accelerate

28:51

discovery to delivery.

29:00

Let me switch gears here a bit and talk

29:02

about as we understand your new rule at CBS

29:04

Health includes commitment to health housing,

29:07

equitable access to care, and

29:09

one of the key initiatives and current pandemic are definitely

29:11

linked to vaccine equity. Can you talk

29:13

to us a bit about the initiative of CBS

29:16

Health with Lift and y m c A.

29:19

When you come out as a physician and you've

29:21

done all this training in wonderful academic

29:24

centers like Cedar Sina or u C l A, and then

29:26

you come out into practice and you're there taking

29:29

care of patients in a waiting room, you realize

29:31

that health is so much more than just health care.

29:34

So I'd like to use the acronym

29:36

health actually to help me explain

29:39

not only CVS Health commitment, but my

29:41

own commitment to believing that health is so much

29:43

more than health care. So h is connected

29:46

to housing. Our commitment to affordable

29:48

housing in the communities where we serve is

29:50

so important because, as we all know, issues

29:53

of homelessness and housing play

29:55

a very important role to be healthy

29:57

and manage your health conditions. And so we've

29:59

commit did more than a billion dollars in

30:01

affordable housing since nine and

30:04

in alone, we invest in

30:06

more than a hundred fourteen million dollars

30:09

to lead to the construction and rehab

30:11

of twenty d affordable housing units in

30:13

thirty cities and twelve states. Education

30:16

is also important, As I mentioned,

30:19

when you serve populations, the people who serve

30:21

should represent those populations. And I'm proud

30:23

of the fact that our health and healthcare professionals,

30:27

of the health and healthcare professionals at

30:29

work at CVS Health represent

30:31

minorities, and so part of me wants

30:33

to highlight this minority health is

30:36

becoming majority health in the US. There

30:38

are still challenges though, For example,

30:41

amongst physicians, only five percent of physicians

30:43

are African American and five percent of

30:45

physicians are Hispanic, despite

30:48

the fact that the broader population represents

30:50

much more in terms of those groups.

30:52

So our commitment to partnering

30:54

with the United Negro College Fund

30:57

and thinking about how we can bring

30:59

more Black and Hispanics into healthcare

31:01

careers is another commitment we make. So that's

31:03

the e and education as

31:06

access to healthy choices. And I'm very

31:08

proud of the fact that I'm part of a company

31:10

that over five years ago quit the sale of tobacco

31:12

and and there's a great study in the American

31:14

Journal of Public Health that showed that that intervention

31:18

and that decision reduced smoking

31:20

rates for individuals and customers of CBS

31:23

and also those communities in which CVS

31:26

was in had lower rates of smoking.

31:29

And so this idea that we're leveraging

31:32

our influence to improve

31:34

access to healthy choices is another example.

31:36

The other one is labor. I'm very proud of this one

31:39

as well. Like if you think about our five workforce

31:41

and innovation centers and the fact

31:43

that we've transitioned a hundred

31:46

and fifteen thousand people from

31:48

public assistance two careers

31:51

at CVS Health is

31:53

a demonstration of our commitment

31:56

to really thinking about labor and

31:58

employment and the role we play in communities,

32:00

because of course, I mean I would say one of the

32:02

best things I can do for your health is make

32:05

sure you have a job. And so once

32:07

again another important piece. Now, transportation,

32:09

as you highlighted, is really important as well,

32:12

and our partnership would LIFT. We've seen

32:14

that nearly half of all LIFT

32:17

pickups are in underserved communities,

32:19

and so of course this idea of getting a vaccine

32:22

and if you happen to have challenges with transportation,

32:25

that you can use LIFT to get you

32:27

two a CVS and get you vaccinated.

32:30

I'm very proud of the fact that many of our sites

32:32

that were vaccinated are already in underserved

32:35

communities. But once again, as we know, in these

32:37

communities, public transport is challenging.

32:39

People often don't own a car, you

32:41

know, it's hard to get from place to place not

32:44

only for their job, but for their healthcare. And

32:46

so we're very committed to that with our partnership

32:48

with LIFT. The only other piece

32:51

side ad is, as you mentioned y m c

32:53

A, is that issue of healthy

32:55

choices. We know the why plays a very

32:57

important role in trust for promoting

32:59

things like as of activity and social connectiveness,

33:02

particularly in communities that

33:04

are underserved. And so the partnership

33:06

of the Y extends to thinking about health

33:08

and healthcare and helping people get vaccinated.

33:11

And I'm very proud of that. The last ages

33:13

healthcare, and we could talk a lot about

33:15

healthcare, but you know, proud of our health hubs

33:17

and our many clinics, and our pharmacies and our pharmacy

33:20

text and our pharmacists and our nurse practitioners

33:23

that are delivering care every day in our

33:25

nearly ten thousand sites. What

33:27

I'm really hearing is that CVS Health is very

33:29

much connected and very much committed

33:31

to the social determinants of health to improve

33:33

health equity, right. I know that personally

33:36

that you've also been associated and facilitated

33:38

the Culture of Health initiative with Robert

33:40

Johnson Foundation to build

33:42

the culture of health. So that's definitely a great

33:45

cause also, and I think kind of ties

33:47

in so well with where this country

33:49

needs to go at this point in time and so

33:51

much is needed. Thanks for sharing those

33:53

thoughts. I know there are like four areas

33:55

that you kind of focus upon, like consumer

33:58

employer environment and community

34:00

health and that's what you kind of talked about. But

34:02

for the next question, I just want to focus a

34:04

bit on companies as employers

34:07

and CBS as employer for instance, And

34:09

we see during the pandemic that companies need

34:11

to build a culture of trust not

34:13

just with customers but with employees. So

34:16

in that context, what measures do you see

34:18

companies investing in as it relates

34:21

to getting the workforce back to work.

34:24

There are a couple of principles I like to talk

34:26

about here. One is that every

34:29

business is a health business. I think if there's

34:31

ever a time we recognize during this pandemic

34:34

this concept of culture of health,

34:37

and also that businesses have an

34:39

important role to play from those four pillars

34:41

of consumer, employer,

34:43

environment, and community.

34:46

And I'm very proud in our Corporate Social Responsibility

34:48

Report we talk about each of those four areas

34:51

healthy people, healthy business,

34:53

healthy communities, and healthy planet.

34:57

There's another principle I like to say, I personally

34:59

felt it was a little uncomfortable. You

35:01

know, there's some what I would call essential workers

35:03

and non essential workers as we've applied during

35:06

this pandemic. But I'm a big believer

35:08

we're all essential, right. I Mean, there's

35:11

in some ways. You know, we all are essential,

35:13

and companies have an important responsibility

35:16

as this pandemic and as we vaccinate

35:18

America to be very thoughtful

35:21

about the health and well being of their workforce.

35:24

And of course, I think broader than

35:26

that, we often have to think holistically

35:29

about our efforts to bring people

35:31

back to work, to be very adaptive

35:33

in terms of work policies as well. Right,

35:36

how companies are very sensitive about their

35:38

work policies are also important. So

35:40

I'm very proud of the fact that we've been very

35:42

proactive as you can imagine, not only the

35:45

health and safety of our customers who go through

35:47

our stores, but we're relentlessly

35:49

focused on the health and safety of our workforce

35:52

as well. The basics of you know, washing

35:55

your hands, and it used to be a badge

35:57

of courage when you go to work when you're sick, you know,

35:59

you have your your sniffles, or you'd be

36:01

like, I'm okay, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm like that age

36:04

is gone. I believe, I think people

36:06

when their sex should stay at home, and

36:08

obviously you need sick policies to support

36:10

that. You know, it's really exciting to

36:13

see the role of playing We're practicing

36:15

what we preach. As we're delivering this care

36:17

in communities all across this country, we're

36:19

also you know, making sure it applies to our

36:21

own workforce as well. What

36:23

I'm really hearing is more about the education

36:26

that is involved, you know, to get the employees

36:28

back as well as well as thinking about

36:30

their families and you know, protecting them

36:32

and also maybe installing systems

36:34

within your locations as well right to

36:36

kind of manage those populations.

36:38

Well, this is something that

36:40

is happening overall during the pandemic,

36:43

and the companies are taking care of all of these things

36:45

that also because they want workforces to

36:47

come back and also come back healthy.

36:50

But how do you see those measures evolving

36:52

as the pandemic is managed more

36:54

effectively in the US, as we achieve broader

36:57

vaccinations, for instance, in the

36:59

long run, how do that lay out in

37:01

the change in the mindsets. So

37:04

in the same way we talked about trust between

37:07

a pharmacists and you know, someone

37:09

citizen who's getting vaccinated, or nurse practitioners

37:11

seeing a patient who's got

37:14

to maybe be an acute illness in one of our many

37:16

clinics, the trust between an

37:18

employer and an employee is really essential

37:20

right that trust. And so

37:22

one of the things I'm as I suggest that I'm proud

37:24

of is our focus on that as an employer,

37:27

but also our efforts to deliver

37:29

that for other employers.

37:31

And so we have this program called return

37:33

Ready with over a hundred

37:35

clients that serve one point five million

37:38

individuals, and so early

37:40

in this pandemic, we recognize, I mean, you

37:42

can imagine there are certain workforces

37:45

that don't have some of the luxuries

37:47

that you and I have that we could work from home, right

37:49

manufacturing plants or retail

37:52

settings, healthcare settings. You know, it's very

37:54

important that we thought about

37:56

how we can leverage our

37:58

technology or capabilitalities,

38:00

are testing capabilities to deliver

38:03

solutions at the work site so

38:05

that you could return ready, you could return

38:08

safe. Think about that trust between

38:10

an employer and an employee and preserving

38:12

that, and so we've been leveraging

38:14

analytics, and we've been leveraging abilities

38:17

to do on site testing. And you can imagine now

38:19

as the supply will

38:21

surpass the demand and we're going to now address

38:24

more issues of vaccine hesitancy, and

38:27

there are is going to be a lot of interest in having

38:29

employers leverage solutions

38:31

like return ready to maintain

38:33

that trust and bring people back to the

38:35

workplace, right, I mean, very powerful

38:38

concept of return ready and also really thinking

38:40

about building that trust, which is the most important

38:42

thing, and I think this is the word which is

38:45

most important that has turned out in the entire

38:48

pandemic building trust with communities,

38:50

trust with government, trust with employers

38:53

employees. So definitely a lot of good work

38:55

that you guys are doing in that direction. As

38:57

we are closing, I would love to have your

38:59

thoughts on how do you

39:01

think the rule of public health agencies

39:03

will evolve based on the lessons

39:05

that we've learned from the pandemic, and also

39:08

maybe if there is any intersection with the private

39:10

sector at all. I'm just a public

39:12

health professional in the private sector.

39:14

So as you were suggesting,

39:16

most of us think about public health agencies

39:19

as governmental public health it's

39:21

you know, agencies like the CDC, federal

39:23

agency, state agencies, as well as local

39:25

health department agencies. And so

39:28

that's a very important part in some people's

39:30

state. It's the backbone of a public health

39:32

system. But as this pandemic

39:34

has taught us, all the other stakeholders

39:36

academia, research

39:39

providers, payers or health

39:41

plans, life science companies,

39:44

companies like fires are in Maderna, CVS

39:46

Health, you know, with our pharmacies, with our

39:49

retail locations, with regards

39:51

to care Mark in ETNA. We all

39:53

play an important role and we all have to

39:56

work to trust each other, you know,

39:58

assure that the prior ality, which

40:00

is keeping our communities, those populations

40:03

healthy and safe, is the goal

40:06

and partner you know, across those different

40:08

agencies, the public, the private sector,

40:11

life science companies and payers,

40:13

you know, providers and health

40:15

plans. It's so important. It's

40:17

really exciting to see how this

40:20

pandemic has brought us all together. And my

40:22

hope and belief is that we need to keep

40:24

this momentum going, these

40:27

partnerships, these collaborations

40:29

in communities, especially communities

40:31

of poverty and color across our country.

40:34

I wrote a piece in Fortune at the beginning of the pandemic

40:37

to stay therefore curves to COVID. So we

40:39

all got this public health literacy about the curve

40:41

of COVID that we have to flatten. The

40:43

other three curves I believe are mental

40:45

illness, chronic disease,

40:48

and inequities. And so the

40:50

other thing I'd call out is we all

40:52

have this broader responsibility not only to focus

40:55

on this infectious disease that we

40:57

need to prevent, to bring our communities

41:00

to work and to take care of our communities

41:02

and our families, but we have to recognize

41:04

that this pandemic has made us realize things

41:06

like inequities that have been long

41:08

standing in our communities, and

41:10

mental illness, as you can imagine, this pandemic

41:13

has impacted that even more

41:15

than ever, but that has always been an issue as well.

41:18

And then the fourth are of chronic diseases.

41:20

People are actually afraid to go back to

41:22

the doctor. I talked to a lot of my

41:24

colleagues in hospitals and health systems are saying

41:26

that they're having challenges bringing people back into

41:29

the office to manage their chronic conditions.

41:31

And so that's gonna be another important pandemic

41:34

that we have to address. So we need to

41:36

flatten all four curves of COVID with

41:38

public private partnerships and with all these

41:40

stakeholders and the trust we've built

41:43

during this pandemic to go beyond. I

41:45

think the two statements I take away

41:47

from here are really very powerful and very

41:49

compelling statements I find Boston needs. We

41:52

are all in public health and

41:54

all businesses are in healthcare business.

41:57

I mean, I think both of them are such true

41:59

statements that people we should be actually really

42:01

working towards. Thanks a lot for

42:03

your time today, and we also know that it's CBS

42:06

the mission is to make health care more

42:08

accessible, more affordable, and simply

42:10

better. And um certainly

42:13

expertise and leadership you are bringing

42:15

to the table throughout your career, but especially

42:17

right now, throughout the pandemic and going forward

42:20

it has certainly held the cause and will do

42:22

so also in future. And I

42:24

just want to emphasize that we really value

42:26

your vision and the thought leadership

42:29

you bring and wish you all the success

42:31

in your new role. Thank you, Thank you so much.

42:33

Thank you to all your listeners as well, and

42:35

all my partners at CBS Health. Thank

42:37

you so

42:42

Catherine and Deep as key team members of

42:44

Contact World. What have you learned about

42:46

the way that Contact World is poised to

42:48

improve public health systems? What

42:51

I learned from this season is the sense

42:53

of humanity and community

42:56

required to really change

42:58

systems. I think a lot of

43:00

times when you look at inequalities

43:03

and deficiencies and systems,

43:05

and public health system

43:07

in particular, you think, well,

43:10

the government needs to do something, somebody

43:12

needs to do something, and

43:15

we take away the level of accountability

43:18

for the human

43:20

connections that we must have

43:23

in order to address those issues. In

43:26

looking at how these

43:28

issues affect people, not

43:30

just financially but emotionally

43:33

mentally, there's so many

43:36

components. People talk about

43:38

what's happened with the virus and

43:41

COVID nineteen, but people

43:43

also miss out on the human

43:46

level affectations.

43:49

And there's also the resiliency

43:52

and the

43:54

level of creativity and

43:58

enterprising spirit of p Pole

44:00

who took on the challenges

44:04

to address them, to speak

44:06

out to set

44:08

the standard, and people

44:10

like Daniel Dawes who

44:13

led the Health Equity Project, people

44:16

that we've spoken to throughout the season

44:19

of the podcast shedding much needed

44:21

light on the disparities.

44:23

Those are the heroes,

44:26

the courageous warriors who

44:28

stood as really the activism

44:31

frontline to lend their time,

44:33

their credibility to the issues

44:36

and really state the reputation to

44:39

really let us know how to address

44:42

these issues that we're facing. So,

44:45

although the season has been about

44:49

the pandemic, I think I would

44:51

choose to rephrase it and say

44:53

that it has been about

44:56

how a community, a community

44:59

of activists or

45:01

credential professionals choose

45:04

to lend themselves

45:07

to helping shed

45:09

light to helping us

45:12

in seeing the bigger picture and

45:15

solving for the solutions that we need.

45:18

I think it's that community of people

45:20

with a sense of humanity

45:23

who wanted to see the systems

45:25

change for the better, who wanted to

45:27

shed light on the stories

45:30

that needed to be heard. Like Fionas

45:32

so, I hope listeners when

45:35

they hear this season,

45:37

I hope they can put themselves

45:39

in the shoes of the people who

45:42

have been affected by this pandemic.

45:45

I hope that they will

45:48

in turn be moved

45:51

and have their sense of activism

45:53

activated. This

45:56

podcast and the season entirely

45:58

has been such an eye opener. I've

46:01

learned personally so much from it. The

46:03

number one thing that I've really learned here is

46:06

the root cause of health disparities

46:08

typically occur outside

46:11

of the four walls of a hospital or a health

46:13

system. Almost every

46:15

guest on this show highlighted how

46:17

the communities of color in minority

46:20

populations have been disproportionately

46:22

affected during the pandemic. COVID

46:25

nineteen has not been the great equalizer

46:27

at all. The social factors

46:30

such as where you live, where you work,

46:32

where you play, have actually

46:34

led to what you've experienced during this pandemic.

46:37

And secondly, the barriers and the roots of

46:39

COVID nineteen and the disparities that we

46:42

see are in systemic

46:44

and institutional racism that is not

46:47

just historic phenomenon, it's

46:49

real. The coronavirus has let

46:51

bear the existing inequities in

46:53

the infrastructure and in the health

46:55

ecosystem. Throughout the season,

46:57

we enable discussions to get to the bottom of

47:00

what's happening with these disparities. As

47:02

in one of our episodes, we talked about residential

47:05

segregation and how it

47:07

is a key factor that leads to other

47:09

forms of segregation, including

47:12

educational segregation and the limiting of

47:14

employment opportunities and growth

47:16

opportunities. And although we

47:18

do know that residential segregation is

47:20

not an easy one that we can fix, but

47:23

we do have the opportunity for other

47:25

downstream fixes in terms of educational

47:27

opportunity and also the economic

47:30

opportunity. At the same time,

47:32

what we learned is that to treat disease

47:35

and better yet to prevent it, we

47:37

must understand that having great

47:39

health care and even providing access

47:42

to healthcare does not guarantee public

47:44

health and a good population health.

47:48

What we really need is that everyone

47:50

in the population must know about their

47:52

health care options, know how

47:55

to use it, and have transportation

47:57

and have paid time off and child care

48:00

so that they can use their health care. Another

48:03

important thing which we've constantly

48:05

talked about is a way

48:08

of bringing these conversations forward

48:10

and also by way of the coinciding

48:13

projects that I lead personally, get contact

48:15

world as well in terms of relating

48:18

it to bottom up innovations and public

48:20

health, and that a

48:23

targeted and a thoughtful application

48:25

of design and global public health systems

48:28

is one of the ways to take real action which

48:30

a lot of us are actually able to do

48:33

in order to improve projects, programs,

48:36

organizations and also save

48:38

lives. As we're applying

48:40

human centered design to understanding

48:42

communities and public health perspectives

48:44

and contact world, we understood

48:47

that a broad set of community side barriers

48:49

need to be brought into focus. These

48:52

barriers include awareness about

48:54

science and why and how it works,

48:57

cultural and social beliefs, access

49:00

to right information, and affordability

49:03

of health measures. These challenges

49:05

and these lack of strategic communications

49:08

often ignored. What they actually

49:10

do is they prevent populations from listening to

49:12

public health even if the resources are

49:14

sometimes are available to them. And last,

49:16

but not the least, what we've really learned here

49:18

is as well, what gets

49:20

measured gets improved. There

49:23

is a need to capture essential

49:25

health equity data, the lack

49:27

of which major lye contributed to the unequal

49:30

Code nineteen outcomes. I

49:32

do hope that the listeners enjoyed our

49:34

conversations with the ten guests that we have

49:37

had in the last few months, and

49:40

for the first time we all know that

49:42

everyone, the lay pub blake, the

49:44

politicians, the health experts, the citizens,

49:47

globally, everyone is

49:49

thinking about the pandemic and

49:51

also the iniquities and systemic infrastructure

49:53

failures, and these common shared

49:56

moments and feelings and time offer

49:58

us an opportunity to collectively

50:01

act now to build better.

50:04

I do want to thank everybody listening because

50:06

the fact that you even listened

50:08

and got to the end of this podcast show

50:11

or even the cities, it shows

50:13

how much you care and it

50:15

shows how much you want to be part of this change.

50:18

There is always a way for you to get engaged

50:20

and make a difference in your communities, and

50:23

I would just challenge each one of you to

50:25

take advantage of that. Thank

50:27

you. It's hard

50:30

to believe that we've completed ten shows

50:32

for Contact World, Truth and Health. Thank

50:35

you so much for spending your time with us. We

50:38

started this company in March to

50:40

help health agencies and employers

50:42

improve health within their communities. We've

50:45

since learned that the issues were addressing

50:47

with our technology have actually existed

50:50

for more than a hundred and fifty years. Along

50:52

the way, we've been humbled by awards from Fast

50:55

Company, Stevie Awards

50:57

and Big Innovation Awards for our technology

50:59

platform, and a the awards

51:01

for this podcast, and we're really just

51:03

scratching the surface like

51:05

you. I've been learning along the way from

51:08

experts and then regular folks like you and me.

51:10

I think the most important thing I've learned though

51:13

through this podcast and through developing

51:15

our company, you cannot fix

51:17

anything if you don't try. Innovation

51:20

is not for the timid, and we all possessed

51:23

within us a special power to create

51:25

change. But it starts with just a

51:27

first step. So thank you for taking

51:29

the first step with us and for believing

51:31

in us. We're trying to save the world,

51:34

so who knows what we'll accomplish together. Listen

51:41

to Contact World the podcast on the I Heart

51:44

Radio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.