Was globalization a temporary state that has run its course? That’s the case made by Jerry Mander, who believes there is plenty of evidence that the promises of capitalism, consumerism, individual wealth and never-ending growth are coming up empty. He’s founder of the International Forum on Globalization and author of The Case Against the Global Economy and for a Turn Toward the Local. He also wrote The Capitalism Papers: Fatal Flaws of an Obsolete System in 2012.

Jerry Mander is in a unique position to understand the power of advertising to move us to act against our best interests. After earning bachelor’s and master’s degrees in economics, he ended up in the advertising business, eventually as a partner at a San Francisco ad agency. He managed several early ad campaigns for the Sierra Club, working with famed environmentalist David Brower. In 1971 he founded the first non-profit advertising agency in the United States, Public Interest Communications.

Mander grew to realize the power of advertising was being used to preserve an unsustainable system that requires ever-increasing amounts of consumption. In response, he authored Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television in 1978. He founded the International Forum on Globalization in 1994 and continues to serve as a Distinguished Fellow.

This conversation was recorded in Jerry Mander’s office in 2011.