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Hi there , welcome to Conversations where we

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seek to advance your leader in team excellence

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by discussing relevant topics that

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impact today's organizations

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. Welcome to the show . Oh

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, welcome to Conversations where today

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we have Joan Nodone , the campus

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director at Grove Church South

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and Sunny Naples , florida , and

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founder of my Home Project

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helping children and families in crisis

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in the country of Guatemala . Specializing

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throughout the years in missions and outreach

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, joe uses that experience

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to build teams , pastor people

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and help transform lives through the message

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of Jesus Christ . Amen

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, let's go For

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all you . Strength enthusiasts , pastor

0:44

Joe leans with positivity , strategic

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achiever , developer and

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futuristic . Welcome

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to the show , joe . How are you today ?

0:54

Thank you . I'm doing so well . I'm excited

0:57

. It's going to be a great conversation . Can't

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wait to see what God does .

1:02

He's always showing up . We had we'll

1:04

just tell the listeners we had a pre-call

1:06

on a week or so ago and

1:09

I said we should have been recording that

1:11

. That's as much fantastic

1:13

.

1:14

Yes , we had a great conversation

1:16

and looking forward , looking forward to

1:18

even more .

1:19

That's right . Well

1:22

, we're going to just roll right into

1:24

it . I know that you have a

1:26

passion around building teams . Why

1:29

don't we jump off there

1:31

and then we'll see where we go with everything else

1:33

? How's that ?

1:35

Okay , let's do it . I

1:37

love , first of all , building teams

1:39

. It's so necessary . Talking

1:41

about , I would say , even starting

1:44

with the portrait of a leader , what a leader looks

1:46

like and what that

1:48

entails . The fact is that

1:50

once we say yes to God

1:52

or to positions , or to

1:54

everything that we

1:56

so desire these positions

1:58

right we don't take under

2:00

consideration that we are leading people

2:02

. The minute that we step

2:05

into a role , that someone's looking

2:07

at us . We're leading people . That means

2:09

all around us . It could be a job

2:12

, it could be your calling , it

2:14

could be at home , it could be just

2:16

children looking at you . Even

2:19

the other day , I had a little girl just

2:22

passing by one of the daycares at Grove

2:24

. She said , hey , you're

2:26

the camera guy , because I did

2:28

photography at the church

2:30

for many years and I would take pictures of

2:32

them . Then she says , and

2:34

I said yeah , that's me . I said , hey

2:37

, how you been ? She goes well , I've been

2:39

good . But my brother , he loves

2:41

you , he actually imitates

2:43

you . Wow , then

2:46

I thought to myself , what is he imitating

2:48

? Yeah , that is the portrait

2:50

of a leader . We are leading in one

2:52

way or the other , but we

2:55

don't know exactly the influence that we're having

2:57

unless we're intentional about it . We

2:59

are going to influence , but how are we influencing

3:02

? That would be the question at hand . I

3:04

learned throughout the years that

3:07

the way that I was leading was not the best . That

3:10

even in itself kind of burnt me out

3:12

. It led me to realize

3:15

how important teams are and the heart

3:17

behind it , and what Jesus even

3:19

says about it . I can't wait to share

3:21

some of that . But it's so important to have

3:23

teams around us so that we could build

3:26

people , empower people , and not

3:28

do this alone , because the results could be

3:30

catastrophic actually .

3:33

You mentioned a really big word , and that

3:35

is burnout . When we're not

3:37

being an effective leader and

3:39

delegating to our teams

3:42

, that's what happens

3:44

, yeah .

3:46

Yeah , burnout is unfortunately

3:48

real . I experienced

3:50

it . I guess there was

3:52

good intentions behind my work

3:54

, as I look at it . Obviously

3:57

I was doing even missions at the time where

3:59

I got burnt out . My heart was

4:01

to help people to do all

4:03

the great things that a missionary would do . The

4:06

problem was that I came from

4:08

a structure of leadership that the

4:11

leader was on the top and the

4:14

people were at the bottom . It's

4:18

like the pyramid , or you have

4:20

to close fist of

4:22

leadership . Unfortunately , that wasn't

4:24

working . I was telling people to move

4:27

out of the way . I got this because apparently

4:29

they weren't doing it the way I wanted to . I

4:35

was leading from a place of perfectionism

4:38

. I call myself a recovering

4:41

perfectionist because

4:43

of the fact that it is real

4:45

. We expect so much out of

4:47

people . We really

4:50

disqualify not just ourselves

4:52

for many things we disqualify

4:54

others . For that reason , I wasn't building

4:57

myself . I wasn't building people . I

4:59

ended up literally burning out by

5:01

trying to do it all myself and

5:03

not realizing that I could invite God

5:06

into the picture . Not only that the

5:09

Bible , for those of you that

5:11

might not know much about what the

5:13

Bible says but Jesus calls

5:15

us the body of Christ . That's the church

5:17

we are gifted . In many ways

5:19

it identifies that there's a five-fold

5:21

ministry , that there's different

5:23

people with different spiritual gifts and talents

5:25

. We can see that around the world . Right , the

5:28

church does not operate in the

5:30

way that the world operates , which is through

5:33

competing or wanting to advance

5:35

your own agenda . This is more about

5:37

hey , how can we advance together

5:40

? We need each other , we recognize each

5:42

other's gift , we pour into each other

5:44

. By knowing God

5:46

, really getting to know his heart

5:48

, we get to know our own identity

5:50

in him and then we could see the identity

5:53

that God has for others . Without

5:55

that competition , right , without that tug-of-war

5:58

, yeah .

6:00

It's almost as though we're thumbing our nose

6:02

at God , saying he doesn't

6:04

know what he's talking about . Right , don't

6:07

do this .

6:08

Right , it's not my style , it's not my way

6:11

. Hey , and so because of that

6:13

, then I'm going to step in . Move out of the

6:15

way . God , I really even felt like I

6:17

did that at points . Move out of the way no-transcript

6:22

.

6:21

Yeah , yeah , and I went to that

6:23

too and I thought that I

6:26

was the only one that could do certain

6:28

things within the organization was a nonprofit

6:31

and I was not

6:33

delegating and I

6:35

Went through burnout , was very

6:37

, very ill and it took

6:39

me a long time to get back into the

6:42

office and then realize , you know , sometimes

6:44

God puts you down and teaches you lessons

6:46

and and it

6:48

was a revelation about delegation

6:51

and the importance of Delegating

6:54

and allowing other people , regardless

6:56

of how it gets done , let

6:58

them step up and in , and it's saying

7:00

that I trust this person to get it done

7:02

and if they need me , if they need you

7:05

know , I will come along with them and

7:08

help them , but it's really

7:10

important for that delegation

7:12

to be happening All right .

7:15

I think that most people would

7:17

like that , and I used to say

7:19

I wish I could clone myself . Who

7:21

would say that ? I don't know , it doesn't even a thought

7:24

on another human beings , but I really thought

7:26

I wish I had a team full of myself . Well

7:28

, you actually can do that . You

7:31

can train people . You

7:33

can duplicate right you can duplicate

7:36

yourself exactly . And so the culture of

7:38

empowerment . We teach a lot , a lot at Grow

7:40

Church . It's to see the potential

7:43

and cultivate it . We identify

7:45

it , and , and that requires

7:47

that we see things God's way . It's not like

7:49

something that we are taught to

7:51

. Let's say , in the world Everything

7:54

is , it's very self-centered , and there

7:56

are jobs that do it well , but there

7:58

are jobs that don't . And there are places

8:00

that do it well , but there are places that that

8:02

obviously stay away from that because of the

8:04

competitiveness and the

8:06

competition , I would say and . And so

8:09

I think and it was

8:11

a GLS that I learned the word get

8:13

mo , or the acronym get mo yes , good

8:15

enough to move on . Wow

8:18

, that that was

8:20

life-changing . You know that , a project that I remember

8:22

that it took me 60 , 60

8:24

hours one week . The next week

8:26

I did a similar project and it took me four hours

8:28

.

8:31

So drastic time we waste ? Yes

8:34

, no , it's like , oh , it's got to be part , you know

8:36

, back to that perfection , it's got to be perfect

8:39

, it's got . No , it does that it

8:41

does not good enough to move on

8:43

. Yeah , and so for

8:45

those listeners next .

8:49

Right for those listeners that are it's like

8:51

hey , what , what do you mean ? Good enough to move on ? It's

8:53

not . So is Rather

8:55

than having a perfection at

8:57

like as the goal ? A perfection

9:00

is not really , and should never be

9:02

the goal . The goal should be like excellence

9:05

we're doing because we have a heart behind

9:07

what we're doing , but we're never gonna get it to that

9:09

place . We're always gonna find something . It's like

9:11

cleaning a car with our moral . It

9:14

just goes on and on and you

9:16

start seeing every little detail and you get

9:18

so annoyed at the end they like forget it . I should

9:20

have just taken this somewhere else , because you

9:22

know we're seeing all the imperfections in

9:24

the car , all the Parts that need to be shined

9:27

. It's ongoing , and

9:29

so we don't want to you , we don't want to

9:31

lead ourselves into a place that we're

9:33

gonna waste our time when , in reality , no

9:35

one's really noticing those little details

9:38

. It's a waste of time . So

9:40

good enough . To move on is just like can

9:42

you get it to a place ? Whereas

9:45

good enough , what can you do

9:47

? So let's say , like an 80% is what actually

9:49

? Craig Rochelle is the one that did this amazing

9:52

teaching and he said take it to the 80%

9:54

. Once you get it to the 80% , then

9:57

what can you do with that extra 20 that

9:59

would have taken you to take it to the 100

10:01

? And so , once you get it to that

10:03

, to that 80% , do something

10:06

else with that 20 , because in reality You're

10:08

not adding more value to that project

10:10

or to whatever you're doing , just by

10:12

adding that extra 20% . And

10:14

so he takes it like okay , once you get

10:16

it down to that point , to that 80%

10:18

, the extra time that you have you

10:21

could use it and then do something Important

10:23

with it . It's almost like what are you compromising

10:25

? Are you compromising your time ? Are you compromising

10:28

your family ? Are you compromising exercising

10:31

your peace of mind , other

10:34

jobs that you could be doing , and so

10:36

, you know , I just loved when

10:38

I heard that and I said , okay , that's amazing . But

10:40

then he takes it a little further and he says

10:42

, okay , once you get it to the 80% and

10:44

and you're a rock star at that you kind of

10:46

like got it down to the point . He's like

10:48

now how can we bend the curve

10:50

on that , meaning you're doing

10:53

the same thing at an 80% , but

10:55

because you got kind of like

10:57

the flow of it , I would say just

10:59

a pattern of doing things right , then you

11:01

could actually do it in a faster time

11:04

, and that is what

11:06

it really . That's what quality

11:08

means . You're not adding more

11:10

time , more money to the project

11:12

. You're actually doing it to

11:14

a percentage which is good enough to move

11:16

on . It's with excellence , but you're not

11:19

wasting your time , you're not wasting your resources

11:21

, and we're so easy to do that . Oh , it needs a

11:23

little bit more of this a little bit more money

11:25

, a little bit more time and in reality , that's

11:28

not a good return

11:30

in our investments and , as leaders

11:32

, we need time . Yes

11:35

, we do .

11:36

Yeah , and when I think about

11:38

that whole excellence versus Perfection

11:40

, when we think about perfection , we're

11:43

really leading out of fear , right

11:45

, for that it's not gonna be good enough

11:47

, or we're not gonna be good enough , or whatever . It

11:49

is Right , instead of rising into

11:51

excellence . God never created us to be

11:53

perfect , you know

11:56

, you know .

11:58

Right . We are on our path to perfection

12:00

will be perfected , the Bible says , into the

12:02

day of Jesus Christ . Yeah , meaning that

12:05

there is a process and his

12:07

goal is that we are dependent

12:09

of him , not independent of him , and

12:11

Therefore we are gonna need

12:14

him . We are the ones that

12:16

are need to be clinging on to

12:18

even Solidify

12:20

our identity day by day , just to to

12:22

know that that you know he is

12:25

our all . We don't have to take on the burden

12:27

of Of all

12:29

the pressure that this , even a leadership position

12:31

, has and that's part of burnout

12:34

, like the pressure of I

12:36

gotta do all of this , I gotta take care of this , the worries

12:39

that I didn't answer all the emails . And

12:41

then , in the middle of the night , you're like some

12:43

you know some of them that have experienced

12:45

anxiety , panic attacks , different

12:48

things that you just can't control

12:50

your environment , so they lead you there

12:53

and it's just Beautiful

12:56

to be freed from that . That's right

12:58

.

12:59

Who doesn't want to live free ? Right

13:02

? Some people

13:04

just don't know they don't know , and

13:06

that's the thing . They just don't know

13:08

. And they wake up day after day after

13:10

day and they think that they need to

13:12

live that way and they really

13:15

don't . But it's a decision and it's

13:17

. It's about learning , it's

13:19

a journey . Yes

13:21

, people for sure .

13:23

For sure , I gotta enjoy that journey

13:26

.

13:26

No it . Well , let's

13:28

talk a little bit about I know the growth

13:31

. Grow has two campuses Right

13:34

. I'd love to talk a little bit about the culture and

13:38

how you help people kind of embed

13:40

in the culture the people that you , you lead , kind

13:43

of what that looks like .

13:47

Well , we have an amazing culture

13:49

. I think that we've solidified it

13:51

even more as we were thinking about

13:53

opening another campus and what that looked like . I think that

13:55

Culture

13:59

allows us to have a sense

14:01

of understanding that we are in and like , let's say , in unity , that we

14:03

are walking together , that we're going after the same things , and you know you can't really lead

14:05

or walk together and you know you can't really lead or walk

14:07

together Unless

14:15

we have an agreement good communication

14:17

. So culture is about that . It's about establishing

14:20

communication . That's a common word that we throw around Business

14:24

environments and also around church

14:26

, but some people get don't realize

14:29

how important culture is . I believe that

14:31

even when selecting people , culture

14:35

is , should be a priority even rather than gifting , because

14:39

someone that really understands the culture

14:42

and honors it and respects it

14:44

, that's , that's an amazing

14:46

fit . Now you're as strong as your weakest link in

14:48

reality . So

14:51

if you have strong people that understand the

14:54

culture , you could , you could teach them , you could be

14:56

that leader that then empowers them to take , you know , to go to that place . But

15:01

if you have great leaders but

15:04

then they don't even respect the culture or

15:06

they don't even embrace it or they come against

15:09

it because they're now I have a better way of

15:11

doing things than we're going

15:13

to be clashing , and it's going to be a competition

15:15

or just you know , there's

15:18

going to be tension , I would say , around

15:20

whatever we're trying to lead , and

15:22

we'll feel it . We just sometimes won't even know

15:24

what it is . What's that tension ? And

15:27

it's because somebody , someone's not embracing

15:29

the culture . Now , culture , I

15:31

would say , is defined , even something like the language

15:34

that we use , our behaviors

15:36

, the things that we see

15:38

but we like , and

15:40

some things that we see and then we don't

15:42

like . Even knowing what we like

15:44

and what we don't like is important

15:47

to celebrate the things that we

15:49

like , that we want to replicate , right

15:51

. But then there's the things that we don't like

15:53

and hey , we shouldn't be doing that , that's not

15:56

us . Well , that needs to be also

15:58

called out . We call it a

16:00

church wins and ops , where we

16:02

celebrate the wins , what

16:04

people do , and then we speak about the ops

16:07

because we want to make sure that

16:09

, hey , either we either

16:11

don't do it again , right , just

16:13

plain as if , but don't do it again . The

16:16

other thing would be like all

16:18

right , that was good , but there's , these

16:21

things need to be adjusted and

16:24

just bring in . Okay , how can we make

16:26

that better ? So , working together , and

16:28

it allows us to always continuously stay

16:31

teachable , and that's even part

16:33

of our culture . That's how we make

16:35

sure that everybody's kind of walking speaking

16:37

the same way , talking the same way , and that doesn't

16:40

mean robots , it just means that we function

16:42

with an understanding that our

16:44

vision and our mission it's

16:47

aligned . It has

16:49

a way so that

16:51

we could go towards the mark

16:53

together rather than separate

16:56

, and it's powerful

16:58

when it's done right .

17:01

And you're obviously doing some things right for

17:04

sure , and when I think about

17:06

when an organization , whether

17:08

it's a ministry , a church or

17:10

whatever , and they break off and they start growing

17:13

and having different locations , that

17:15

could be tricky at

17:17

times , and so I'd love to hear , maybe , about

17:20

how you found success

17:22

. I know it's through the culture , but how

17:24

do you bring another

17:26

location into the mix ? Was

17:29

it easy ? Was it difficult ?

17:32

Let's talk about that . We

17:34

know that nothing that really

17:36

is worth fighting for comes

17:39

easy . I

17:43

would say one of the most difficult things

17:45

that I have done and yet one of the most rewarding

17:48

. I think

17:50

that this is used . I think

17:52

it's Juan Cortez that he

17:54

has . He's coming

17:57

to discover America and doing different , just

18:00

bringing people from

18:02

Spain , basically just to

18:05

discover the lands . Let's

18:07

just say that because I know that some people don't like those

18:09

topics of conquering and discovering and

18:12

because there was people in those places already , obviously . So

18:15

here comes Juan Cortez . I

18:17

hope I'm saying the name right . But Juan Cortez

18:20

does get to this place in Mexico

18:22

where he's got a crew of people that are

18:24

so tired , they're

18:27

exhausted , and these people they

18:30

don't want to go into conquering this land

18:32

. And yet he's like

18:34

, hey , we got here , let's do this

18:36

. And he makes a call

18:38

and the call is to

18:40

burn the ships . I

18:42

mean I would have probably

18:44

passed out if I'm in that crew . And

18:47

it's like how do we get back when you've

18:49

gone through storms and trials

18:51

and tribulations ? And he's kind of

18:53

like saying there's no going back . He

18:56

is calling the shots by

18:58

saying I'm going to burn the ships . What does that

19:00

do ? Is . It gives no

19:02

option but to go forward , go

19:05

forward with the plan . I think that I've

19:07

done that plenty of times . I don't know if

19:09

it's liked by people , but sometimes

19:11

I just step away and

19:14

that's because I'm trusting that God is going to do something

19:16

after I have led , after

19:18

I have done my job . To empower someone

19:21

. Jesus did it with three

19:23

steps . He did with hey

19:26

. People started following him . He's like , ok , follow

19:28

me and you watch what I'm doing . And

19:31

he's like , ok , I'm doing this Kind

19:34

of like , just watch . There's

19:36

no , it's kind of like a shadow . We

19:38

call it a shadow Just

19:41

watch . And again he's like

19:43

I'm going to actually watch , you

19:45

do it . And

19:47

so now we got the disciples

19:50

that followed him and watched them

19:52

. Now he's like , hey , go feed the

19:54

people while he's there . It's

19:56

like nobody was complaining that Jesus

19:58

wasn't doing anything . They saw him

20:00

do enough . So , as a

20:02

leader , we do our part to make

20:04

sure that we are leading well . So

20:07

then , when the time comes for us to step out

20:09

, I know there's going to be a few that are not going to like

20:11

it . There's always going to be a few that are

20:13

going to come against that . But whoever

20:15

gets it will

20:18

love the empowerment that they're getting , because

20:20

it's for the benefit of the

20:23

entire team that the leader

20:25

at one point steps out and allows

20:27

somebody to do it . You do that well , by the way , kelly

20:29

. Dr Kelly , you do amazing . I've

20:32

seen you say even hey , would

20:34

you take ownership of that or would you step

20:36

into that ? And it's like so

20:38

good . I'm like , yes , he empowers

20:40

people quickly . Love

20:42

it . Love it , because if not

20:45

, then it's all on us . It's learned , yes

20:48

, and so then Jesus

20:50

then does something that many people

20:52

don't know how to do , and that's his third

20:55

step . He steps out

20:57

, completely out of the picture , because

20:59

he already trusts that what

21:01

he has shown , what

21:04

he has also taught in the second

21:06

step and

21:08

directed if there was any mistake , he's not leaving

21:10

them alone in the second step . But

21:12

now he's like OK , you're good , but

21:15

that's also giving them permission to fail

21:17

. Yeah , like he knew

21:19

they were going to fail . He knew we

21:21

were going to fail , right , absolutely . So

21:24

that's actually empowerment and that has been

21:26

the best thing that I have

21:28

done . And sometimes that empowerment of releasing

21:30

it all requires to burn the ship

21:32

and just sometimes not show up Like

21:36

we think that it's not going to happen because we're not there

21:38

Sometimes . I made the call , even

21:40

bringing a leader along to a group

21:43

or something that I'm leading a team or a group

21:45

, depending . We

21:47

have groups that we gather together and we do

21:49

studies and I always try to bring someone along

21:51

from the beginning that I'm actually teaching

21:54

how to lead a group , teaching the culture

21:57

, teaching how to lead and

21:59

lead well , and I let them know

22:01

. There's one day , maybe

22:03

in the third , fourth , fifth

22:06

week , that I might not show up . I'll

22:09

give you a very short window and

22:11

I'm going to prepare you for that day and

22:13

I want you to be prepared that at one point

22:15

or the other I won't be there . And

22:18

it's worked . It's

22:20

worked . I never thought it was possible , but

22:22

it's worked throughout the year . So I think that

22:24

by knowing I'm training right

22:27

, coaching

22:29

right , as I , you know , thinking

22:32

about the possibility of once

22:34

my next move to step out , and then

22:36

, when I step out , then I could see a

22:38

flourish and I just water it once in

22:40

a while , making sure that it's still going

22:43

, that I'm taking care of them and

22:45

that I'm following up with whatever

22:47

they're doing so that they can stay on track , and

22:49

I'm always available . I'm going to be available .

22:52

I love that story and the

22:55

progression and how it's a biblical

22:57

principle of how you are leading

22:59

people and that's beautiful , and so

23:02

it's always amazing that the Bible is

23:04

just so full of wisdom

23:06

for so many different situations

23:09

. It's like , yeah

23:11

, you just need to know where to go and

23:14

how to understand it .

23:15

Right , right , it allows us

23:17

to , not in this case , in the campus

23:20

. My pastors , I mean , they're

23:22

amazing leaders . Pastor

23:25

James and Pastor Tracy Boyd they

23:27

are . They have led by

23:30

example . They love empowering others

23:32

, and he was the one that actually told me about Get

23:34

no , he's like . He's like you're

23:36

putting too much pressure on yourself and on other

23:38

people . Don't disqualify

23:41

other people . And I realized I was like

23:43

, wow , I'm disqualifying people

23:45

because I was disqualifying

23:48

myself , you

23:50

know . So the fact that he

23:52

, like , brought me into that culture

23:55

of empowerment by saying

23:57

this is what it looks like , this is what

23:59

you need to do , these are your next steps

24:01

, which is part of our culture as well

24:04

to give next steps , never allowing

24:06

for someone to stay stagnant . If

24:09

not , we're not going

24:11

to be a growing church and we're not . Like

24:13

Jesus said , go and preach the gospel

24:16

into the world is the great commandment

24:18

, right . And so for that to

24:20

happen , we need to

24:23

empower others . Allow people

24:25

to do what it is that we

24:27

have called them , god has called them to do , but

24:29

allow them to do what

24:31

we've taught them , because sometimes we teach

24:34

but we don't release .

24:36

Yes , oh

24:38

, and I think more people

24:40

need to understand that the whole release

24:42

part of it for sure

24:44

, and understand when to do that

24:47

. And somebody may not just you

24:49

know , like you mentioned in your story , something

24:51

may not always be ready , but

24:54

if you don't give them the opportunity

24:56

to rise up and in , how are

24:58

you going to know ? Right , and how are

25:00

they going to know ?

25:01

Right , and how is God going

25:03

to step in and do something in their lives ? The

25:06

way that he did it in ours yes , Like

25:08

we're not , like you know number one

25:10

, or like in the favorites of you

25:13

know of God's list , is like

25:15

he loves us all unconditionally and

25:17

he's got a plan for all of us . And

25:19

so now I get it . I'm like

25:21

, oh , you want to use me so

25:24

that I could see the plans that you have

25:26

for other people , but that

25:28

requires a dying to self

25:30

. That is very difficult

25:33

. That means that selfish desires

25:35

that we have , we got to lay them down and

25:38

see the bigger picture . And I've let dreams

25:40

go more

25:42

than I wish I did at points . But

25:45

in the end the result

25:47

is so gratifying

25:50

because we have a good God and then it builds

25:52

us so much as people that if

25:54

that wouldn't have happened , I just wonder

25:56

where would I be or how would

25:59

I have limited God to work in

26:01

other people . I'm sure he would have found

26:03

someone else , but the fact that he

26:05

saw me to be part of that

26:07

plan , that's incredible and

26:09

you know it's an honor . We have to understand

26:12

that it is an honor .

26:15

You know . That reminds me . I think it's also

26:17

important for people to understand that

26:19

just because you let go of a dream

26:21

, I mean it may be yours , but

26:23

if it is part of God's plan for

26:25

your life , he will find a way to bring that back

26:27

around , because I've seen that

26:30

firsthand with me . And

26:34

so he is a good God . And if

26:36

it is , if it's for him

26:38

, if it's really a desire of your heart

26:40

and it's of God's heart , then

26:42

there will be a way . And it may not be

26:44

today , tomorrow , next year , maybe

26:47

10 years from now , but he does

26:49

have a way of making

26:51

good on his promises to us

26:53

, right ?

26:54

That is . That's such a good point , because

26:56

I don't want to pick

26:59

or kind of like point . I got as in

27:01

he's a dream killer right . Because

27:03

I want to make sure that there are dreams

27:05

that I needed to give up on . They were disaster

27:08

streams , they would have led me to this , to

27:11

this lifestyle of basically

27:13

of the world , of being able

27:15

, you know , of our culture , of just

27:17

looking at what can I gain out

27:20

of this situation , you know , and I

27:23

could go into that , but let's just leave it there . Everybody

27:25

could use their imagination to think about how selfish

27:27

we could be , but when God

27:29

right invites us into

27:31

this story , into this vision

27:34

, into this dream and

27:36

I often think I don't know if you've seen that movie

27:39

Inception- oh

27:41

no , you were telling me about the action I'm

27:45

going to have to see we

27:47

can get it . I did after Leon , leonardo

27:50

de Caprio . I say it very Spanish

27:52

, but Leonardo de Caprio

27:54

is actually the

27:56

main character in the movie , and

27:59

there is . It's just about getting

28:01

into some dreams . But I'm

28:04

not going to be a dream , you

28:06

know . I mean a movie spoiler here , so

28:08

I'm just going to leave it at that . They go from a dream

28:11

to another dream to a dream . It's

28:13

a great movie , but we are

28:15

normally like that in life we have a

28:18

dream within a bigger dream

28:20

, and sometimes we

28:22

think that our dream is just bigger than everybody's

28:24

. But in reality , if we're able

28:26

to listen to God's voice , he

28:28

is the dream giver . He is the

28:30

one that's giving everyone dreams

28:33

, but they're under his dreams

28:35

, yes , and it's amazing . And

28:37

we're like over here thinking that we're going to make it

28:39

happen without him . No , he's

28:41

the one that placed it in your heart

28:44

, so he's going to partner us as a

28:46

church . That's what I found at

28:48

my church . I found that

28:50

my dream fit within the

28:52

dream and I was able

28:54

to really come to terms of wow

28:57

, these people have everything

28:59

, everything that I am looking

29:01

for , rather than , oh

29:04

, my dream is different than

29:06

their set apart . It looks the

29:08

same , but it doesn't fit . I

29:11

, you know , I submitted and I said , lord

29:13

, what if it looks , if it sounds

29:16

the same , what about it ? Once

29:18

I submitted to that and I was able to see that God

29:20

really had a purpose in that , I

29:23

started leading second , like , let's

29:25

say like in the leading second role . Very

29:28

well , it's almost like I understood

29:30

that they were for me and not against

29:32

me , rather than you know , because

29:34

that's what I saw from other churches , I said , well

29:36

, like , I'll do my own thing while I'm

29:38

going to this church , but they're really not pouring

29:41

into whatever God is trying to do

29:43

through me . They don't see it

29:45

. Yeah , my ministry is

29:47

so big over here and you

29:50

know I don't need anyone to interrupt it . No

29:52

, no lies , it was all lies of the enemy

29:54

so that I wouldn't have a

29:56

beautiful covering . People

29:58

to do life with , family

30:01

, people to that would keep me

30:03

accountable . You know people that

30:05

would say , hey , you know what you're doing

30:07

, that wrong , but also celebrate

30:10

with me and say , hey , you're doing that right

30:12

and push me and say , hey , you know , not like

30:14

a push , but you know , like , push me to do

30:16

things that I thought do

30:19

I have the knowledge , the

30:21

wisdom to do this ? Of course you do . They're

30:23

like you know , and if not , we're going to teach you

30:25

, we're going to guide you there . And

30:27

the beautiful thing is that they're so transparent that

30:30

sometimes it was like , hey , we don't know either

30:32

, but we're going to trust in

30:34

God . And sometimes I'm like is that a

30:36

cop out ? But in reality , no

30:38

, we're all leading from a place of the unknown

30:40

. At points , we just have to lead with

30:42

confidence that we know that

30:45

we've led before or we've done something

30:47

. It's made a difference in people and

30:49

we're just making ourselves available so that that

30:52

continues . If not , we'll

30:54

be stopped by fear . Men .

30:57

Yeah , and I also think that more

30:59

people are looking for organizations

31:02

who align with their values . You know

31:04

where the values are aligning

31:06

, so they can feel good going

31:08

to work and having that experience

31:11

like you have , Because I think

31:13

that's important . We don't want to be

31:15

getting up and going to work somewhere

31:17

where it's just so far to the left

31:19

from what we believe in .

31:22

Right Right , that environment

31:24

is so , it's so good . I

31:26

mean , I have friendships with people

31:29

at work , but I

31:31

also know that there's a challenge

31:33

between having friendships and also leading

31:35

with people , so that has to

31:37

be really clear . That's a whole

31:40

other podcast , by the way . Just

31:42

leading with your friends , that's

31:47

fair to be the bad guy , right . But

31:50

you know , what really helps is first of all the

31:52

culture . It really helps . We

31:55

could call each other out by the culture , not

31:57

by our own preferences . No

32:00

, the culture is . I just told someone

32:02

in a meeting the other day and I said

32:04

hey , I

32:06

just saw what you did and

32:09

it's not our culture , that's not honorable

32:11

and call them out

32:13

, but in a loving way . Not

32:15

my opinion as a friend , I

32:18

would have let that go . But

32:21

we have to keep each other accountable

32:24

and it is difficult . But

32:26

if not , we put at risk

32:28

Not

32:30

us as friendships

32:33

. At the end of the day , the friendship is probably

32:35

going to still be there . What are we putting

32:37

at risk ? The vision , because now

32:39

the vision is not moving forward because

32:41

we're over here having a

32:46

spats about what they call it . Right Spits

32:48

back . I don't know

32:50

.

32:50

I've never used that You've never used that , but

32:54

I understand it .

32:56

I should have repeated that . So

33:00

yeah , and it's very clear to us

33:02

that vision and mission

33:04

aligns us to

33:06

be able to make the hard decisions

33:09

when it comes to friendships in

33:12

the work field or in leadership Right

33:16

.

33:17

I would love , before we close , for you to talk

33:20

a little bit about your nonprofit

33:22

.

33:23

Oh nice , I want to hear about it . This

33:27

movie that just came out , called

33:29

Sound of Freedom , has

33:32

really tugged the hearts of America . There

33:38

was one of the I

33:40

would say the statistics . One

33:43

of the statistics they said was that

33:45

right now there's

33:48

more slaves than when it

33:50

was legal and

33:52

the majority of those are children

33:54

. That's

33:58

difficult to hear . That's

34:02

tough . What I've been doing throughout

34:04

most of my life has been working with children

34:06

. I just had

34:09

a heart for children

34:11

because of things that I went through in

34:13

my childhood . It was

34:15

a very difficult experience , from bullying

34:18

to being rejected , being

34:20

even at a young age already

34:23

suicidal as

34:26

a thought . It was often there . The enemy just

34:28

really wanted to come against me and those

34:30

were things that I was fighting . Although

34:32

I was raised in the church

34:34

, you know , and my parents being Christian

34:36

parents and very loving , there

34:41

was no child abuse in the home . There was nothing

34:43

that in the home that would

34:45

say that my life would

34:47

be that . And yet it was because

34:50

of the environment I was brought in and

34:52

because of the environment that they were fighting to get

34:54

me out of Some children

34:56

. They just end up in different environments

34:59

, because of poverty

35:01

, because of culture , because of the

35:03

situation , broken homes , so

35:07

many scenarios , right Unbelief and all

35:09

of that . And so

35:11

I started working with children

35:13

and , just really knowing that

35:15

it was my purpose , at eight years old

35:17

, I ended up getting a vision that I would kind

35:20

of work out orphanages and own

35:22

one and lead one . I was such a little kid

35:24

to be able to start getting visions about that . I

35:27

carried that dream throughout and when

35:29

I got to the country of Guatemala for

35:31

the first time after

35:34

I had accepted Jesus in my heart and made

35:36

a commitment to live for him , I literally

35:38

asked . The first thing I

35:41

saw the children in the streets working

35:44

, being exploited , and I started

35:46

understanding a little bit more

35:48

beyond what the eye sees . And

35:51

I just couldn't . I couldn't

35:53

stop and think

35:55

about my day anymore

35:57

. My day was like what am I

35:59

doing ? I'm so selfish . I , you know , I

36:01

got everything around me and it

36:03

became about how can I get back to

36:05

Guatemala and from ? I've been

36:07

there ever since . 2003

36:09

was my first time . I even moved

36:11

there for seven years in a row . I

36:14

served about 14 years , and

36:17

out of those 14 years then

36:19

, seven of them were full time , just

36:21

dedicated , and

36:23

I didn't know anything about nonprofits . I had

36:25

no idea what that meant at the time

36:27

I didn't know what I was getting myself into

36:29

. I was just going after what God

36:31

told me to do , which was to help

36:34

children , get them off the streets

36:36

, sponsor and promote

36:39

those organizations that did support them

36:41

in whichever way . And so I started

36:43

my own , because I just it

36:45

was starting to become a little bit weird that people

36:48

were just dropping money and giving me money and

36:50

I was like , okay , I need to do something about it . And

36:53

so that's how that started and

36:56

again it just it

36:58

came from a product of just

37:00

hearing what God was saying and just following

37:02

that , being obedient and not worrying

37:04

about how scary all of

37:06

that felt , and going into orphanages

37:09

. I did feel that I was like representing

37:11

men I was the only man in

37:14

that place and sometimes even Dr

37:16

Kelly , honestly being looked at by women

37:19

like who are you , what

37:21

are you doing here ? Almost

37:24

with , like I would say , being

37:27

judged , a judgmental approach

37:29

and very unfortunate

37:31

and , of course , well

37:33

, that's what society

37:35

has labeled men as . And I was just like

37:38

I got to make a difference , not just for myself

37:40

, not just for the children , but for the people around

37:42

me , bring some awareness . And that's

37:44

how my home project kind of began from

37:47

a you know , from a heart , from pain , from

37:50

all the things that I did not want to see but

37:52

I wanted to see changed .

37:54

That's amazing , and so

37:56

how can people find

37:59

out more about your nonprofit

38:01

? Where can they go for that ?

38:04

We have a website called myhomeprojectorg

38:07

and there we

38:10

are now revamping certain

38:12

things from the country , because the

38:14

country has changed some laws with children

38:17

for reasons

38:19

of trying to implement

38:21

more of the foster system , and

38:24

so we're revamping our , even

38:26

our , strategies . We're , we

38:28

have a land and we're hoping that in the future

38:30

, are praying about guiding

38:33

that towards being a facility

38:35

where we can just help families in

38:37

crisis , because , at the end of the day

38:39

, is the family unit that's going

38:41

to be able to help children and

38:44

bring a safe place , and also

38:46

partnering with the , with

38:48

the actual country , because it's

38:51

not my country , right , it's the one that God

38:53

has called me to work with , but

38:55

I can't go in there and try to set my own

38:57

rules and my own ways . I have

38:59

to also be obedient to , you

39:01

know , to the laws of the country , but also then really

39:04

see what yes , yes

39:06

, very important and what does God want to

39:09

do through this , and so leading and

39:11

listening , and so we're we're

39:13

right there , just trying to partner with God with all

39:15

those things . But myhomeprojectorg

39:17

is the place to go and you'll be able

39:19

to see some of the things we're doing .

39:22

Thank you for sharing that . It's important we're

39:24

doing on both ends with with grow

39:26

, as well as your ministry and your nonprofit

39:29

, so I appreciate that . Thank

39:31

you , dr Cunning . Oh well

39:34

, you are welcome . I want to thank you for

39:36

coming on today . It's been a pleasure to

39:38

have you and learn about your leadership

39:40

and how you run teams and about

39:42

culture . We talked about a lot of different

39:44

things , which was amazing , and I

39:46

know the listeners are going to have some

39:48

big takeaways from this , especially

39:50

that Gapmo yes

39:53

, nothing else , gapmo For sure

39:55

.

39:56

For sure . Thank

39:58

you so much . I just if I if

40:01

I wanted to say something to the people out there

40:03

is give yourself permission to

40:05

fail . Just

40:07

give yourself permission to fail , because that's

40:09

not going to hold

40:11

you back . We are going to fail no matter what . So

40:14

if we come to terms with that , then we'll just

40:16

go full force and and just really

40:18

allow ourselves to grow in the process

40:20

.

40:20

That's right . It's all about growth and

40:23

it's a journey . It's a growth journey

40:26

. Yeah yeah , happen overnight

40:28

, all right . Well

40:30

, I look forward to co-MCing

40:34

with you and

40:36

us next month , so

40:38

that's right . So I

40:40

will meet you there , but I'm

40:42

sure we'll be talking in between there and

40:44

please come back on to conversations . I would

40:46

love to have you as a guest .

40:48

Thank you so much . I'm honored and I

40:51

can't wait for GLS .

40:52

I know it's going to be awesome . All right

40:54

, you take care you too .

40:55

Bye , thanks for making all that space out there .