0:00

Hey there and welcome to Conversations , where today

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we have Yossi Amran , a

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licensed clinical psychologist and

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an executive coach catering to

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CEOs , entrepreneurs

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and other influential leaders

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, previously a founder and CEO

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of two companies that he has led through

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successful IPOs . He

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has coached over a hundred CEOs

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, many of whom have built companies with

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thousands of employees and

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revenues in the billions

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. He is a pioneering research

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in the field of spiritual intelligence

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and the author of spiritually

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intelligent leadership how

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to Inspire by being Inspired

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. He holds an MBA from Harvard

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and a PhD from Sophia

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University . Dr Amran

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is committed to enabling

0:48

individuals to unlock their potential

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through spiritual intelligence , which

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we are going to hear about today

0:55

. Yossi , welcome to the show

0:58

. How are you doing today ?

1:00

I'm great , I'm delighted to be here with you

1:02

and hear these kind

1:04

words of introduction and still

1:06

feeling the effect of your prayer

1:08

and enjoying your smile . So it's

1:11

awesome .

1:13

Thank you so much , so tell us where you're

1:15

coming to us from today .

1:18

I am today in Northern California

1:20

, near Santa Cruz . It's a Northern

1:22

California Bay area and I'm close

1:24

to the ocean , so I get this energy

1:28

and the mountains on one side

1:30

and the ocean on the other side , on the

1:32

California coast .

1:34

Nothing better than that . Oh

1:36

, I love it , thank

1:38

you .

1:38

I love it .

1:39

Yeah , congratulations on your book

1:42

. I think it's fantastic

1:44

, and that's what I'm going to talk about today

1:47

, because I feel

1:49

that people don't truly

1:51

, including myself , and that's why I'm so glad

1:54

that you're here with us to really unpack

1:56

what spiritual intelligence

1:58

is . I would love for us to just

2:00

jump into that and tell us

2:03

what is it .

2:05

Okay , great . Well

2:10

, spiritual intelligence is very analogous

2:12

to emotional intelligence , like most people

2:14

have heard of , and it's kind of permeating

2:17

our culture these days . But

2:20

emotional intelligence is basically the ability

2:22

to draw on emotional resources

2:24

and information to help manage our

2:26

own and other people's emotions

2:29

. So , by analogy , spiritual

2:31

intelligence is the ability to draw on

2:33

and embody spiritual resources

2:35

and qualities and values that have been

2:38

hailed by all the world's spiritual

2:40

traditions , qualities

2:42

such as purpose , service , compassion

2:45

, integrity , humility

2:47

, joy , beauty , higher

2:50

self and so on . These are qualities

2:52

that , regardless of

2:54

one's tradition whether you come

2:56

from a Christian tradition or a Jewish

2:58

or a Muslim or a Hindu or Buddhist

3:01

, and regardless

3:04

of their theology and cosmology

3:06

, these qualities are considered

3:08

as virtues . They have been

3:10

shown through the field of positive

3:12

psychology , in fact , and leadership

3:14

development , to contribute

3:16

to our well-being and

3:18

our power and effectiveness as

3:21

leaders . So it's a long definition

3:25

, but the essence of it is the

3:27

ability to draw

3:29

on and embody spiritual qualities

3:32

and resources in daily life

3:34

to help functioning and well-being

3:36

.

3:38

And you know what I hear a lot , especially certain

3:41

generations , that they'll

3:43

say that they're spiritual , they're not

3:45

religious . Is that something that

3:47

you hear or that maybe you can

3:50

explain ?

3:52

Yeah , well , I hear a lot . A lot of

3:54

my clients

3:56

would fall into that category

3:59

. I mean , just in terms of my clients you mentioned

4:01

, I've worked with over 100 CEOs and

4:03

they've been all over the spectrum

4:06

, from devout practitioners

4:08

of a particular religion

4:10

to quote-unquote spiritual and not

4:13

religious , which is very popular these

4:15

days , and then to pure atheists

4:17

. Now , what is amazing is

4:19

that you could develop your spiritual intelligence

4:22

and you may not agree or

4:24

like this , but I think it's important

4:26

that people could develop their spiritual intelligence

4:29

regardless of their spiritual and

4:31

religious affiliation . So , going

4:33

back to these qualities I highlighted

4:36

purpose and service and compassion

4:38

and humility and presence

4:41

and integrity . You

4:43

don't have to be practicing

4:47

or believing in any one religion

4:49

or any one spiritual framework

4:52

to embody them and to cultivate

4:55

them . So , yeah

4:57

, but you know a lot of people these days

4:59

. I think I just saw recent research

5:01

by a few that says

5:03

that the biggest category are now

5:05

in the US is called none , which

5:08

is I

5:12

forget the acronym

5:14

, but it's basically that they're not affiliated

5:17

with any religion . It used

5:19

to be that the majority of population

5:22

were affiliated one religion

5:24

or another , whether it's Protestant or Catholic

5:27

or Jewish or Muslim , but now

5:29

the biggest category is people that

5:31

are not . But , it's interesting

5:33

still , the majority of Americans

5:36

believe in higher powers . So

5:39

they believe in higher power or

5:42

some notion of spirituality , but they

5:45

don't want to

5:47

categorize themselves

5:49

as affiliated with any one religion

5:51

, which you

5:53

know . Obviously there's been a lot of problems

5:57

and damage done in the name of religion

5:59

, but I also see that it's contributed

6:01

a lot to humanity

6:03

and I think being part of spiritual

6:06

but not religious is kind of a personal

6:09

experience and connection

6:11

which is important . But I think what

6:13

religion gives us is tradition

6:16

and community and

6:18

I think that's so important . So

6:21

, yeah , so anyway

6:23

, it's a complex , long subject . I'm

6:26

not sure what's going there .

6:29

Well , thank you for answering that . What

6:32

are some of the benefits of spiritual

6:34

intelligence for us as individuals

6:36

, but then also for teams and leaders

6:39

? Because you obviously you work with

6:41

CEOs , you

6:43

know people in those

6:45

higher level , but also you

6:47

noted in your bio with entrepreneurs

6:50

, so I would love to hear more about that , what

6:52

the benefits are .

6:53

Yeah , and I'm also work as a clinical psychologist

6:56

with individuals and couples , so

6:58

yeah , so

7:00

yeah , I'm glad you're bringing

7:02

that up . So spiritual intelligence

7:05

has benefits at the individual level

7:07

, first of all in quality

7:09

of life , satisfaction

7:12

with life , individual productivity

7:14

and even relationship

7:17

and marital satisfaction

7:19

. So there are lots of benefits

7:21

. Individually Now , as leaders

7:24

, it's also very

7:27

powerful and effective

7:29

. In my own doctoral research I showed

7:31

the leaders with higher spiritual

7:34

intelligence lead

7:36

teams that have higher morale , greater commitment

7:39

and lower turnover . And

7:42

that's after controlling for emotional

7:44

intelligence . So emotional intelligence contributes

7:47

to leadership effectiveness . Spiritual

7:50

intelligence contribute to leadership effectiveness

7:52

, but combined they do

7:55

more than each of them alone . So

7:57

they are complementary and

7:59

reinforcing

8:01

and together they're more than each

8:03

of them . So that's not to knock either

8:06

of them . They're both important . And

8:08

the other point I would make is that , following

8:10

my research , there's been other research

8:13

that has shown that leaders

8:16

with greater spiritual intelligence produce

8:18

better financial results for their organization

8:21

, which was kind of pretty amazing

8:24

to hear . In another study

8:26

it's been shown that teams

8:29

and groups and particularly

8:31

this one study was done with banks

8:33

banks where the employees hold

8:36

a higher level of spiritual intelligence

8:38

better financial results

8:40

and better return on assets

8:43

compared to other banks . So

8:45

the point is it contributes to

8:47

leadership effectiveness , to individual

8:49

productivity and group and

8:51

team productivity . When everybody's

8:54

leadership , spiritual intelligence

8:56

, hire , the team as a whole functions

8:58

better and is

9:00

more productive . And

9:03

, needless to say , people feel more connected

9:05

, a sense of community , their happiness

9:08

, their well-being goes up , so

9:10

that all feeds positive energy

9:13

which results in greater

9:15

alignment , greater cohesion and , ultimately

9:17

, better results .

9:20

So how is this measured ? So

9:23

how do you get to that ?

9:25

Well , you mean the outcome

9:27

. As I said , depending on

9:29

the study , they looked

9:32

at the actual financial results

9:34

of the organization

9:36

, whether it was profitability or revenue

9:38

growth . In the case of the banks , it was

9:40

return on assets , which

9:43

is again a standard

9:45

financial metric that

9:47

are used to evaluate performance

9:51

in the financial sector

9:53

. I

9:55

think the other aspect , though , is how do

9:57

you measure someone's spiritual intelligence

10:00

, so to speak ? And that was my

10:02

doctoral research , and I spent a

10:04

number of years to create the first academically

10:07

validated measure of spiritual

10:10

intelligence , and it's

10:12

both a self-report measure , where

10:15

it asks you to basically

10:17

look at your behavior over a

10:20

period of time and look at questions

10:22

as to the extent you

10:24

brought compassion to your encounters

10:27

and whether that helped you in your interactions

10:29

with others , or to

10:31

what extent you are driven and motivated

10:34

by a sense of purpose that's

10:36

beyond just financial rewards

10:38

or career advancement , so

10:40

that comes into service or

10:42

purpose , and whether you are

10:45

present in your interaction

10:47

with others , and so on . So it's

10:49

got 22 dimensions of spiritual

10:52

intelligence and it's

10:54

evaluating you on

10:57

all of those . Now , most

10:59

importantly is that it's helping people

11:01

identify

11:04

their strengths and opportunities relative

11:07

to themselves , so it's not like

11:09

to get our egos engaged

11:11

and say which is kind of a paradoxical

11:15

was like oh , I have higher spiritual

11:17

intelligence than someone else and we

11:19

can start to go into

11:21

our egoic comparing mind

11:24

. The idea here is to help people identify

11:26

their strengths and their opportunities

11:29

. So someone's strengths might be compassion

11:32

they bring a lot of compassion into

11:34

their interactions with others and helps

11:37

their connections , etc . Someone

11:39

else's strengths might be bringing

11:41

quality of joy to their interactions

11:44

and someone else may really

11:46

have a strong access to

11:48

vision , and someone else may

11:50

be very mindful and present

11:52

, and so on . So there are all these dimensions

11:55

and qualities and it's to

11:57

help people identify their strengths

11:59

and their opportunities . And

12:01

then most people , when they

12:03

go through the assessment , find it helpful

12:06

just the process of reflecting

12:09

on ourselves and just oh

12:11

yeah , I could bring more compassion to

12:13

my interaction , I can bring more

12:15

joy , I can be

12:17

more intentional , I can be more mindful

12:20

, I can be more present , and

12:22

so on .

12:24

I love that and those are to be

12:26

celebrated , the things

12:29

that we're strong in and even in those opportunities

12:32

. Celebrate that there's an opportunity

12:34

there .

12:36

Yeah , exactly , and it's important

12:38

to understand , at least in my view

12:40

. None of us are perfect and

12:44

it's a constant practice

12:46

of building the muscle , as

12:48

they say , to build our capacity and

12:52

to stay centered , to stay grounded

12:57

, to stay in our heart , to be in alignment

12:59

with our values . But there's

13:01

so much that life throws at us and

13:04

we kind of lose balance , we lose

13:06

center . And then how quickly do

13:08

we remember ? How quickly do

13:10

we come back ? So , remember

13:13

, what does that mean ? If you think about

13:15

the word is re returning

13:17

to membering ourselves into

13:19

the community , into the circle of life

13:21

. So when we remember

13:24

, we move away

13:26

from being an isolated , separate

13:28

individual to being

13:30

a member of the circle of life

13:33

that you know , with our fellow

13:35

humans and life more broadly , and

13:37

that resources us . So again

13:39

, we look at the word resource

13:42

. It's resource , so

13:44

we return to source . That

13:46

is our greatest resource

13:49

. So when we

13:51

so , we get off balance and

13:53

then we remember and we resource

13:55

ourselves , and so it's an ongoing

13:58

practice . We're building new neural pathways

14:01

and then finding more and more

14:03

stability in that place

14:05

so we , when we're thrown off , we can return

14:07

faster .

14:09

Yeah , I'm really I'm listening

14:11

to you and I'm thinking of those two words

14:14

and how people say them all the time , but

14:16

I think those who are listening

14:18

are going to stop and pause and

14:20

probably rewind and say I need to hear that

14:23

again and really think about

14:25

those two words differently .

14:27

Yeah , so we remember

14:29

, we've remember . As I said

14:32

is once we all think , oh , we forget

14:34

something , we remember . But yeah

14:36

, remember ourselves , remember

14:39

our nature , resource ourselves

14:41

by connecting to source and

14:44

yeah , I

14:46

like that . And

14:49

there's always an opportunity . That's

14:51

the beauty . Like you said , we forget

14:53

and we remember and we could celebrate

14:55

that we remembered .

14:57

Yes .

14:59

So it's not . We don't have to go into beating

15:01

ourselves up oh I forgot , oh

15:03

, I forgot , oh I . But in the moment

15:06

of realizing we forgot , implicit

15:09

in that is the remembering . And

15:11

then there's an opportunity to celebrate and

15:13

bring more joy to ourselves and

15:15

celebrate our growth

15:17

. That's right .

15:20

So how do you bring this in ? Because

15:22

you work with CEOs

15:25

and I'm thinking sometimes

15:28

, in especially corporate environment

15:30

, it's like oh spiritual , no , we can't

15:32

go there . So how

15:34

do you bring this in ?

15:37

Well , by meeting people where they are . People

15:40

you know face crises , face

15:42

dilemmas , face , you know

15:44

challenges . And

15:47

the way I bring it in is by helping

15:49

people find their

15:52

essence , find their source

15:54

and you

15:57

know spark of life within them

15:59

. And then they feel rooted in their depth

16:01

and their essence and their spark of life

16:04

and then

16:06

they find their alignment with

16:08

their calling , their purpose , and

16:10

then it becomes clear to them

16:13

how to navigate those situations

16:16

. So I don't necessarily have to , you

16:18

know , pitch

16:20

them and tell them about , you

16:22

know the religion or the spiritual thing

16:25

, but they find those resources

16:27

in themselves , they find that

16:29

wisdom in their hearts , and so

16:32

a lot of it is helping them

16:34

connect and go

16:36

inward . I mean , we're so culturally

16:38

conditioned to look out and

16:41

for our goodies you get this new

16:43

car , you get this new thing . From the day

16:45

we're kids we were given new toys

16:48

, we're given candy and that makes

16:50

us happy and that's great . We need to

16:52

some of that to grow . But as

16:54

we mature , our

16:57

true power is

16:59

from within us . Because if

17:01

my true power , if my

17:03

power and my satisfaction

17:05

, comes externally , then I

17:08

am disempowered

17:10

. You know my fate , my

17:12

destinies is in the hands of

17:14

these other things where I'm outside my

17:17

control , even when I can

17:19

root myself in my essence

17:21

, in my connection to

17:23

the divine . If we use that

17:25

language or that my

17:28

soul , essence

17:30

, my spark of life then

17:33

I'm dependent on

17:36

other people's approval for my

17:38

self-esteem , for my sense of

17:40

value . And

17:43

I'm not a leader , I'm following

17:45

. I'm more a politician , trying to figure

17:47

out what do people want , and

17:50

then I don't have my North Star

17:53

, my inner compass . So a lot

17:55

of what I do is helping people connect

17:57

with themselves , with their essence

17:59

, and that's where they find the answer , that's

18:02

where they find their true power . And

18:06

again , as I said , that could be for anybody

18:08

, regardless of if they're religious

18:11

or spiritual , but not religious or

18:13

atheist . They can feel it . We

18:15

feel when we live in integrity with

18:17

our nature and

18:20

when we're integrity with our nature we're

18:22

aligned , we're whole and

18:25

we're not divided . When we're divided

18:27

, we're misaligned and we're weak

18:29

, you know , but

18:32

just if you take something misaligned

18:34

, it's much weaker than something that's whole

18:36

and aligned .

18:38

That's when we need to remember .

18:41

That's when we remember and resource . You

18:48

already remember . You're

18:51

remembering what we

18:53

talked about . That's

18:56

right , I'm

18:58

delighted .

18:59

So that's how we do become inspired

19:02

.

19:02

Yes , yeah , what

19:05

is inspired ? I mean , what do leaders

19:07

do ? They inspire , right , I

19:09

mean one of my first cases

19:12

at Harvard , when I attended

19:14

for my MBA many years ago , you

19:18

know , was the difference between managers and leaders

19:20

. And managers are

19:23

the important . They manage

19:25

resources , they make decisions , they allocate

19:28

scarce resources , but leaders inspire

19:30

. Now , what is the root of the word

19:32

? Inspire is spirit

19:34

. And what is spirit is the animating

19:37

breath of life , right ? So

19:40

by its very nature we say to

19:42

inspire or be inspired . It's injecting

19:45

the life force , the spirit , the

19:49

energy that animates life , that

19:51

animates the organization , that animates

19:53

the team . So we

19:55

have to connect to the root essence

19:57

of our life force , which

20:00

is our spirit , and

20:02

that's our source of inspiration

20:05

. So we have to ignite that flame

20:07

and find that inspiration inside of us

20:09

. Before we can have any

20:11

hope of inspiring anybody else

20:13

, we have to be inspired . So

20:16

that's why my book is called how to

20:18

Inspire by being Inspired . And people get

20:20

confused . Lots of people come to me and

20:22

say I want to be an inspirational leader and

20:25

I just ask them okay , do you want to be an inspirational

20:28

leader or an inspired leader ? And

20:30

what's the difference ? When you say I

20:32

want to be an inspirational leader ? How do

20:34

you decide ? If you are , you have to look

20:36

out . Oh , what's the effect

20:39

I'm having on others ? No

20:41

, right there , I left myself , I disempowered

20:43

myself , because that verdict depends

20:46

on them . If I say I am

20:48

inspired , I feel

20:50

it . I feel the aliveness , I

20:53

feel the passion , I feel the power

20:55

that comes when I'm inspired

20:57

, when I

21:00

have inhaled in the

21:02

power of that spirit , and then it's circulating

21:05

through my veins and my

21:07

arteries and I'm just pulsating

21:10

with aliveness and vibrating

21:12

, and then that's my frequency that I'm radiating

21:14

out . Helpable , yeah

21:17

, it's palpable , and people that resonate

21:19

with my vision and my mission and my

21:22

values are naturally drawn in . So

21:26

we get inspired , we elevate

21:28

our frequency , we vibrate

21:30

this energy , this

21:32

aliveness , this passion , this

21:34

vision , and

21:36

then people that want

21:38

to line up . And if they're not aligned with

21:40

that , then it's better than not

21:42

be part of our team , because then

21:47

the team is divided , people are

21:49

rolling in different directions . So whatever

21:51

applies to us individually

21:53

, the importance of alignment and wholeness

21:55

and integrity applies

21:57

at the team and organization level . The

22:00

organization needs to be aligned , needs

22:02

to be whole , needs

22:04

to be in integrity , not with

22:06

inner fighting

22:08

which sometimes we experience within our

22:11

own psyche and which divides

22:13

us . So I mean the

22:16

microcosm and the macrocosms

22:18

, as above , so below , so to speak

22:20

.

22:23

Yeah , so imagine if all leaders really

22:25

could harness that

22:27

, what our organizations would be

22:30

so it would be palpable . People

22:32

would be following , people would be aligning

22:35

and people would be getting excited

22:37

.

22:39

And they would be empowered themselves . So

22:42

it permeates out

22:44

. So it's

22:46

good . Leaders inspire

22:49

and create followers . But also

22:51

great leaders inspire

22:54

other leaders . So

22:56

it's not just I get inspired

22:59

and I'm this charismatic

23:01

, powerful leader and people following

23:04

me , which is great . I

23:06

can boost my ego and so on

23:08

, and look at me , but if I'm

23:10

a really truly great leader , then

23:12

I'm empowering my team to become

23:15

leaders , because we're actually all leaders

23:17

. We're all influencing each other , whether

23:19

in a formal , yeah , right . Thank

23:25

you , thank you . Whether

23:27

it's in a formal organization , in

23:29

a business or a nonprofit or

23:32

a government organization , we're

23:34

leaders . In our teams , and I mean in

23:36

our families and in our communities , we're

23:39

always influencing each other

23:41

. And how we behave , how we show

23:43

up in the checkout line in the supermarket

23:46

, we're affecting each other . How we

23:48

drive on the freeway , we're affecting each

23:50

other . You know someone drives

23:52

aggressively against everybody , riled

23:54

up . You know , before you know it

23:56

, it's a mess and everybody's

23:59

anxiety and stress goes up and

24:01

accidents go up . So I'm

24:03

just saying is how we show

24:05

up in our lives , we're

24:08

always leading , we're always influencing

24:11

.

24:12

That's right and that's the message that I

24:14

hammer home , it seems all the time

24:17

, because people don't understand that

24:19

. They think the word leader means

24:21

something else and that it doesn't apply to

24:23

them , and sometimes

24:25

they just need permission to call themselves

24:27

a leader and to understand that . Exactly

24:30

how you said , it doesn't matter how do we say

24:32

, it doesn't matter if you're on a hierarchy chart or not

24:34

. Yeah , they're always

24:37

in a leadership role .

24:39

Yeah , you have the opportunity to influence

24:41

others , but that has to do

24:43

with you know , do you get passionate

24:46

, Do you have a vision or an idea

24:48

or something ? And

24:50

I also want to emphasize

24:52

that . You know , we typically think of leadership

24:54

as you

24:57

know , those that lead from the front , people

25:00

that have a vision of the future , and they said this

25:02

is where we're going and follow me . It's kind

25:04

of what I call Yang

25:06

quality of leadership , and there's

25:08

also the Yin quality of leadership

25:10

, which is leading from behind , and that's

25:13

not so much about I know

25:15

where we're going , you guys follow

25:17

me . It's more like , okay

25:19

, I'm going to be here and support

25:21

you from behind

25:24

. And if you look at the Bible , some

25:26

of the greatest leaders were shepherds

25:28

and they were picked because

25:30

they cared for the flock

25:32

, and from behind . So

25:35

you know the

25:37

biblical story is Moses was

25:40

chosen because he carried the

25:42

weak lamb and God was

25:44

like okay , if you care that well

25:47

for the week among , then

25:49

you can lead , and

25:51

so when people feel like that

25:54

level of care and

25:56

support , then naturally want

25:58

to follow , and so , but that's more leading

26:00

from the front and behind , and

26:03

the greatest leaders I see

26:05

can switch back and forth

26:07

depending on the situation . Sometimes they

26:09

have a vision and they get ahead and say follow

26:11

me and they get everybody rallying

26:14

behind that vision and that mission . Sometimes

26:17

they fall behind and they help people discover

26:19

their own way and have their own

26:21

vision for themselves and then they're

26:23

taking more of a coaching , mentoring

26:26

, empowering role and I think that's

26:28

very powerful and very important

26:30

it is .

26:34

All right , let's see what we have here

26:36

. So how do we cultivate

26:39

deep and grow our spiritual intelligence

26:41

?

26:44

Well , it's a practice and

26:47

my experience is it's

26:49

like building any new habit

26:52

or muscle is to focus

26:54

our intention

26:56

and attention on one quality . And

26:59

so we say , okay , for

27:02

the next month I

27:04

want to bring more joy to my activities

27:07

. And then what are the practices

27:09

that bring me joy throughout my day

27:11

? You know , what brings me joy

27:14

is walking on the beach

27:16

every morning and watching the pelicans

27:18

and the birds as they feed , and

27:20

the dawn of the new day and the

27:22

beautiful sunrise , and

27:25

dancing and music and cooking

27:27

and talking to my family , my children

27:29

. So those are the things . I bring more

27:31

mindfulness to doing that and I cultivate

27:34

the quality of joy and then I make

27:37

it more permeate my

27:39

day and do I show up to meetings

27:41

gloomy or do I try

27:43

and elevate people's spirit , etc

27:45

. So once I build that habit

27:48

maybe it takes me 30 days and I'm

27:50

now practicing joy I could focus

27:52

on another quality . It could be

27:54

compassion , it could be mindfulness

27:56

, the presence , whatever it is . And

28:01

so , yeah , in

28:03

the word practice it's

28:05

kind of funny , it has two meanings . In the

28:07

English language we say

28:09

, oh , I'm practicing this for

28:12

some future games , some future

28:14

performance , but when you also think

28:16

about it , a doctor has a

28:18

family practice or has

28:20

this . That is what

28:22

they do . It's not like they're

28:24

practicing medicine for something

28:27

else . They're practicing medicine . This is

28:29

their work . So what we practice is what

28:31

we become . So if I practice joy

28:33

, then I become joyful . If I practice

28:36

compassion and compassion

28:38

, if I practice humility , then I'm humble

28:41

. If I practice integrity , then I'm an

28:43

integrity . So , but

28:45

you know , we need these training wheels to

28:48

get us to find that and

28:50

so that over time we could be

28:53

, that we become more and more of that quality

28:55

that we're cultivating . I

28:58

hope I'm making sense .

29:00

No , you are making sense because

29:02

, as you said , what are their 22, ?

29:04

22 different elements to the

29:06

22 qualities and they

29:08

cost these , they

29:10

cluster around , you know , these domains

29:12

of meaning and grace and

29:15

inner directedness

29:17

, and truth and wisdom , and

29:20

so , and under each of those there's

29:22

multiple . So , for example , under

29:24

grace , there's trust

29:27

, you know being trust , and they call

29:29

it faith and trusting . Because

29:31

as leaders , it's critical and as human

29:33

being , it's crucial that we

29:35

have trust and faith in life

29:37

and otherwise nobody's

29:41

going to be motivated if we don't believe that

29:43

we can accomplish anything over time

29:45

and the future is going to be good

29:49

for us or the goals we

29:51

set . So so trust is one

29:53

important quality , as as gratitude

29:56

, as is beauty , as is joy . So

29:58

when we bring these qualities , we're kind

30:00

of interacting with others

30:03

with grace . We bring in this positivity

30:05

of trust and gratitude

30:08

and joy and beauty , and so

30:10

that's just an example of one

30:12

cluster of qualities that

30:14

, in this framework , and

30:17

what I like about what you're saying

30:19

is that we don't

30:21

have to work on everything at once

30:23

.

30:25

We can just take that pause . Do

30:27

a 30-day work

30:29

on something , not feel overwhelmed

30:32

by it , because that's not what this is about

30:34

. We don't want you overwhelmed .

30:36

Yeah , and we need to build trust

30:39

in ourselves . So when I say the

30:41

quality of trust , we can

30:43

say it's trust in God

30:45

, it's trust in the universe

30:47

, it's trust in our team , it's trust

30:49

in ourselves , but we have to trust

30:52

ourselves also . So if we take on

30:54

too many , too ambitious

30:56

, we're overwhelmed , we're not going to attain what

30:58

we start

31:01

to not trust and respect ourselves

31:03

, which disempowers us . So

31:05

, yeah , it's super important to

31:07

take qualities , and

31:10

one at a time , and set

31:12

to ourselves attainable

31:15

goals so we can build our

31:17

confidence and our faith and our trust

31:19

in ourselves , which gives us

31:21

more energy and more motivation to keep

31:24

going Like I'm successful at this

31:26

. I can do this , as opposed

31:28

to I cannot .

31:30

Yes , and these are in the book yes

31:32

, where people yeah these are qualities

31:35

.

31:35

There are case studies for each quality

31:37

. I have relatable

31:39

case studies from leaders and

31:41

how they come in and they have no access

31:43

to it and how I work with

31:46

them to help them find and

31:48

awaken that quality and

31:50

use that capacity

31:53

to address the challenge . And then , along

31:55

with each quality , there are exercises

31:58

that I call your turn

32:00

. So then it guides

32:02

you through applying it

32:05

. And

32:07

so , yeah , spiritual intelligence not

32:09

. You read this book and

32:12

you get something out of it , but

32:14

it's not just a cognitive understanding

32:16

. It's like you know , you

32:18

can . It's like with

32:21

spirituality or religion . I

32:23

say , okay , well , I understand , and it's important

32:25

to have faith

32:27

or trust in life . Okay , I can

32:29

understand that cognitively , but

32:31

how do you rewire yourself

32:34

to have that faith

32:36

and trust ? It's an ongoing

32:38

practice

32:40

. To cultivate

32:43

faith it's an ongoing

32:45

practice Interesting . You know , I come from

32:47

Israel . My original mother tongue is Hebrew

32:50

and the word in Hebrew for

32:52

faith or trust is Emuna , and

32:54

it shares root with

32:56

imun , which

32:59

means practice , and

33:01

oman , which is art . So

33:04

to develop faith or trust

33:06

, it's an ongoing practice and

33:08

it's an art form . It's not just , oh , you

33:11

say , okay , I need faith . Okay , great , that's

33:14

a good idea . But let's see what

33:16

happens when life throws you challenges

33:18

and you're like do

33:22

you still maintain the faith , do

33:24

you still maintain the trust and

33:26

believe that this is serving some

33:28

goodness , or do you get cynical

33:31

about life and feel

33:33

like a victim ? So

33:35

I'm just saying , with

33:37

each of these qualities , there are suggested

33:40

practices to help people work

33:42

on that and bring it into life in

33:44

their own life .

33:48

Yeah , and practice isn't

33:50

a dirty word , it's something that

33:52

we all need to do and I love that you

33:54

brought in and I'm not going to say

33:56

this but I love that you brought in the medical practice

33:59

, because what people don't understand

34:01

is that doctors are always practicing . I

34:05

mean , everybody's coming in . They're unique

34:07

. They may have something that , yes

34:09

, maybe they've seen before , but they

34:11

still may need to go to their book and figure

34:13

it out , or practice in

34:15

their craft of whatever it is . I

34:18

love that you brought that in . And we do

34:20

need to be practicing in order

34:22

to cultivate those habits and

34:25

, as you said , gaining confidence

34:27

through that practice is how them

34:29

we're going to say oh I did this , think

34:33

of it as an experiment for 30 days

34:35

and see how you

34:37

come out . I love that . And then move

34:39

on to the next .

34:41

Yeah , yeah , and , as you highlighted , the doctor

34:43

is practicing in both

34:46

senses of the word . They're practicing

34:48

, they're doing it , they're practicing whatever

34:50

family medicine

34:53

or whatever kind of medicine they're

34:55

practicing , but each time they're

34:57

practicing , they're improving

34:59

and deepening the skill

35:01

, which is less the way we are . When we

35:03

practice gratitude , we're being

35:05

grateful and we're deepening the

35:08

grooves of gratitude in our brain

35:10

. So it's more living

35:12

our lives in gratitude .

35:14

Yes .

35:15

Accounting our blessings , you know .

35:17

That's right . So

35:20

what haven't we talked about that's

35:22

important for you to share today

35:25

before we close ?

35:28

Well , I think . Well

35:35

, I think you touched on something

35:37

which is obviously

35:40

in the beginning . If

35:43

someone comes from a particular

35:45

faith tradition , then they have

35:47

one access

35:50

point to that spirit

35:52

, you know , and through

35:54

if you're coming from

35:57

a particular Christian faith tradition

35:59

etc . Then you

36:01

know how to tune into that frequency

36:04

and through prayer , like you did , invoking

36:06

, and then that kind of invoked and

36:09

awakened the spirit in you , and

36:11

so that's awesome for people who have

36:13

that . Perhaps your audience

36:16

is kind of already steeped in

36:18

that tradition and they have an access point

36:20

. And I think that's a great way

36:22

to start and ignite that spark

36:25

and draw in that spirit

36:27

. And then from there , like work

36:30

on these other qualities of

36:32

gratitude and compassion and

36:35

integrity and humility and

36:37

so on . But if someone does not

36:39

have that , then it's like , okay

36:41

, how do they connect with

36:43

their sacred spark of life

36:46

? And what I find

36:48

is that is

36:50

one pathway and this is

36:53

not to negate the other

36:55

we just talked about , but just to

36:57

complement . It is to first

36:59

connect with our breath . So

37:02

we can do that right now and just take a

37:04

few deep breaths together , feeling

37:06

the rise and fall of

37:08

our belly and our chest and

37:13

, if it helps , putting our

37:15

right hand on the center of our

37:17

chest and feeling our heartbeat

37:19

and lower hand on the lower

37:21

belly , feeling our feet

37:24

on the ground and support of the earth

37:26

, mother Earth below us , feeling

37:28

the verticality of our spine

37:30

as its channel for energy

37:33

that connects our head

37:35

pointing at the heavens and our feet

37:37

rooted in the ground . And then

37:39

so we become this channel of energy

37:43

and , as our

37:45

spine is kind of an

37:47

antenna , picking up these

37:49

frequencies and connecting

37:52

heaven and earth , which is what our role

37:54

as humans are , is to bring the

37:56

energy and the goodness of heaven down

37:58

to this earth . So it's

38:00

that's just one way , I find

38:03

, to get centered and

38:05

grounded and feel our life force

38:07

, our aliveness , through our breath

38:09

, through our pulsation of

38:11

our blood flow

38:14

through our veins and arteries

38:16

and heart . And

38:19

you know , that's that's one way

38:21

I think people can

38:23

, and it doesn't take very long , to get

38:26

centered and grounded .

38:27

this way resource . I'm

38:30

ready for a nap , now that I did .

38:32

So it was relaxing , huh .

38:34

Relaxing , thank you .

38:36

Do you feel more or less clearheaded

38:38

?

38:39

I feel more clearheaded , for sure

38:41

I feel . I feel lighter lighter

38:44

Okay .

38:45

I do , I do feel so

38:47

it's interesting , you're relaxed and

38:49

and and alert

38:51

and alert , yeah , yeah

38:54

, so , um , so

39:01

anyway . But I mean , if we , if

39:03

we do these kind of practices few times

39:05

a day , it doesn't take long . Uh

39:08

, you know , it took us a minute to

39:10

do this . You felt the effect . So people

39:12

over time can , can do this on their own

39:15

a few times a day between meetings

39:17

. Instead of start coming into a meeting feeling

39:19

frazzled is coming in , feeling centered

39:21

, and so

39:24

. But whatever the practice is , it could be center

39:26

centering prayer . You know there's

39:28

a I think

39:30

is it Thomas Keating has centering

39:32

prayer and you know I don't know

39:35

different traditions , but for whatever

39:37

, whatever it is , having these

39:39

small tools that we can

39:41

weave in throughout our

39:43

day , and so our

39:45

nervous systems are more calm , we're more

39:47

centered , we're more available , our mind

39:49

is clear , we're not reactive , we're

39:52

more responsive to the

39:54

situation and we bring

39:56

more of ourselves , more of our resources

39:58

to to bear and whoever , who

40:00

and whatever is in front of us .

40:03

I've done that with teams and opening

40:05

like that , very similar

40:07

to that , and it is amazing that then

40:10

we're ready to go after

40:13

we're all centered , we

40:17

complete that , we take a moment

40:19

to just enjoy that moment

40:21

and then we're ready .

40:23

Yeah , yeah , and

40:26

it could be a team

40:28

prayer . I mean , it's so powerful

40:30

when a group of people have a shared intention

40:33

, when we're clear on our intention

40:35

, it's like a rudder that keeps us on track

40:37

and it's super important . But

40:39

there's research that shows when you take multiple

40:42

people and they have shared

40:44

intention , then the power of that

40:46

intention is multiplied , which is why

40:48

you know spiritual

40:51

communities and sanghas

40:54

or churches or whatever are so

40:56

powerful , because you have a group of

40:58

people coming into a service with

41:01

a shared intention and following

41:03

a ritual and you , the energy of the

41:05

space is palpable and then

41:07

the whole space starts to imbue

41:09

that . So , yeah , if you start

41:12

a meeting with everybody doing that

41:14

and affirming the intention

41:16

super powerful and build a sense of community

41:18

, which is so important these days .

41:21

That is important . Yossi

41:24

, I'd love to point people to

41:26

you , like to your book , where they can find

41:28

you if they like to connect with you somehow

41:31

. What can we offer in the show notes for

41:33

that ?

41:35

Well , a couple of things . First is my

41:37

website is yosi-o-s-i-a-m-r-a-m

41:42

it's

41:45

two M's like Marynet

41:47

, so yosi-a-m-r-a-mnet

41:50

, and in there there are resources

41:53

and links to the

41:56

assessment tool . There's

41:59

a free assessment tool for spiritual

42:01

intelligence that I mentioned that people

42:03

could take . There's

42:06

more expansive

42:08

resources , like for if someone wants to

42:10

do a 360 assessment , and so

42:13

on . But yeah , there's also

42:15

a description of my book , which

42:17

is available on multiple

42:20

online and

42:22

bookstores , whether it's Barnes

42:24

, noble or Amazon or what have

42:26

you . So the book is , as you

42:28

mentioned , spiritually intelligent

42:31

leadership how to inspire by

42:33

being inspired . There

42:35

it is , so thank

42:38

you .

42:42

Well , it has been a joy , a pleasure , oh

42:44

my gosh , and I'm so relaxed

42:46

still . So thank you for that

42:48

. But we really went through a lot of things

42:51

and I appreciate that , really taking

42:53

people on an understanding , on this

42:55

journey , of what spiritual intelligence

42:57

is . And it doesn't have to do with religion

43:00

, it is about spirituality , it

43:02

is about the spirit . What

43:05

did you call that ? The spark

43:07

of the .

43:10

Sacred spark of life .

43:11

Sacred spark of life . I think that's beautiful

43:13

and it's about getting that sacred

43:16

spark of life and

43:18

then sharing that .

43:20

Yeah , and just banning

43:23

its flame , and so then , Getting

43:25

the flames ? Yes , and then

43:27

we all have the flame and the heart that

43:29

seeks truth , that seeks God

43:32

, that seeks whatever , that

43:35

wants this deep fulfillment . And when

43:37

that flame is shining bright , then

43:39

it radiates light and

43:41

warmth and other people are drawn

43:43

into that and

43:46

that helps ignite their flame . It's

43:48

like we all light up each other and then

43:50

we light up the world .

43:52

That's right . Let's light up the world , people

43:54

, all

43:56

right . Well , thank you so much . I appreciate

43:58

you .

43:59

Well , I thank you , you're welcome

44:01

and next time .

44:02

You keep doing great things . Bye-bye

44:04

, bye-bye .