0:00

Welcome to Conversations that Matter with

0:02

your host , amber Howard . Each

0:05

week , amber dances , in conversation

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with inspirational leaders , out to make

0:09

a difference for what matters most to people . She

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brings you incredible guests who share

0:13

their real-life experience of being a leader

0:16

and what it looks like to live a truly

0:18

created life of service to others . And

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now here's your host .

0:25

Welcome back everyone . Welcome back to

0:27

Conversations that Matter . It is

0:29

my absolute pleasure today to have on the show

0:31

Lisa Jo Barr . Lisa

0:34

is a published author , a mentor

0:36

coach , an AOP peer

0:38

specialist and professional speaker

0:40

. Lisa Jo has a

0:42

PhD in the School of Hardenaxa

0:44

. She likes to say not only has she survived

0:46

childhood violence and life-threatening addictions

0:49

to sex and cocaine , but

0:51

she's also learned how to manage the severe

0:54

mental conditions of bipolar 1 and complex

0:56

PTSD . I

0:59

should slow down my speaking . Ptsd

1:01

.

1:01

PTSD yes , that's a tough one

1:03

.

1:04

As a result of her personal experiences

1:06

with addiction and mental illness , she is

1:08

on a mission to help others living

1:10

with the same challenges and to offer support

1:12

and guidance so that they can live a life they love

1:14

. It's such a privilege to have you

1:17

here with me today , Lisa Jo .

1:20

Thank you so much for having me . It's a

1:22

pleasure .

1:23

Yeah , really good , we jump

1:25

right in on the show and we jump right in

1:27

with giving you an opportunity . It sounds like

1:29

you've had quite an extraordinary life

1:32

and really have taken

1:34

all of the pain and trauma that you've experienced

1:37

and turned it into something beautiful and positive . So

1:39

I would love to hear what's the

1:42

journey been like for you to get to where you are today

1:44

?

1:46

I grew up in a household that was

1:48

. I dealt with a lot of violence . My

1:50

father was a rageaholic . My

1:53

mother was a battered housewife . Basically

1:56

, I was the black

1:58

sheep of the family . It was me

2:01

, my brother and my mother and

2:03

father . So the four

2:05

of us lived under the same roof for

2:07

um , off

2:10

and on , until I was 18

2:12

. When

2:15

I was 14 years old , I

2:17

ran away from home . I

2:20

was into the new wave and then I went punk

2:22

, rock and gothic , and

2:25

a boyfriend that I met at an all-aged

2:27

nightclub called After the Fox

2:29

helped me run away . He

2:32

was 19 . I was 14 . And

2:35

my father found me in

2:37

downtown Denver smoking a clove

2:39

cigarette , waiting for the 16th

2:41

Street Mall shuttle bus . He

2:45

dragged me to his car . We started

2:47

driving to his house their house

2:49

, my house . He

2:52

pulled over . He was so angry and

2:54

just started beating on me on my

2:56

arm . I was in the passenger

2:58

side . He

3:01

went to his house , um , and

3:04

he was so livid he said I'm

3:08

going to kill you . And

3:10

that's when I called the cops . The

3:13

cops came , they saw the black

3:15

and blue bruises up and down my arm . They

3:18

took me out of that household . I spent

3:20

time in foster care . My father

3:22

fought for me . He , my

3:24

father , loved me . He was a

3:26

very sick man . He just wanted

3:28

to control everything and

3:33

in his eyes I was out of

3:35

control . So

3:37

he won me back without

3:39

and he got out of all forms

3:41

of therapy . He didn't believe in therapy , he

3:44

himself . I have bipolar one

3:46

. I believe he had bipolar

3:49

two , which any

3:51

kind of bipolar , if it's untreated , can

3:53

cause a person to rage out . And

3:56

he raised out and he had periods where

3:58

he would be hypomanic

4:01

, which means he would um

4:03

, he would have this high energy and this

4:05

kindness behind it . And

4:08

once he bought me we went . We'd go

4:10

shopping together for for

4:13

my wardrobe , and

4:15

one time he bought me this shirt . You

4:17

know we'd go and he would talk

4:19

to . He was a talker , he would talk

4:22

to the salespeople and try and get a deal

4:24

, and that was . He loved to do that , and

4:26

once he bought me

4:29

this shirt that I loved . So a

4:31

couple of days later , at like 10 o'clock

4:33

at night , he showed up at my house with

4:35

five of those shirts and different colors

4:37

, and that was his

4:39

manic episode . That's what . And

4:41

his rage , I

4:45

, uh , I

4:47

then well , I'm going to jump around a little

4:49

bit . Years later , I became

4:51

involved with the 12 step program

4:53

. The first group

4:55

that I went into , a sex addicts , anonymous

4:58

, and

5:01

I was out of control . I've

5:04

worked the 12 steps and many different programs

5:07

. The ninth step is where

5:09

you give your amends and

5:12

I've worked very hard

5:14

to see . One of the aspects is

5:16

finding your part in it . Well

5:18

, before I was 18 , none of it was my

5:20

part because I was underage , I was

5:22

a kid , but as an adult I

5:24

blame my father for everything wrong in my

5:26

life , everything . He

5:30

. I gave him an amend

5:32

at a park bench in Littleton , colorado

5:34

, and that was the

5:36

day we became friends . It

5:39

was a miracle and absolute

5:41

. It was . It was higher power

5:43

, god , who I call God all

5:45

the way . So his

5:48

last seven years , the last seven years

5:50

of his life , uh , we

5:52

were friends . I still had to draw strong

5:54

boundaries , but

5:57

um there was no

5:59

resentment and no regret when he died

6:01

. It was beautiful

6:03

. He died of both cancer , which sucks

6:05

. But so

6:08

I've struggled with mental illness , um

6:10

, the bipolar one . I've

6:12

had severe , complex PTSD

6:15

from my upbringing and then I was

6:17

sexually assaulted

6:19

, um , as a kid and

6:21

as an adult . Um , I've

6:25

always been a writer and

6:27

I've always been real gifted , but I never

6:29

knew it because I was always put down

6:31

in my parents' house

6:34

. But I've

6:36

been writing since I learned how to write in

6:39

first grade or whatever , with the

6:41

big chief pads and the pencils

6:43

. And you remember that , yeah

6:47

, yeah . So I wrote

6:49

my first little poetry book when

6:51

I was 12 years old . I've

6:53

journaled ever since . I've

6:55

been a freelance writer for magazines

6:58

and newspapers around the world . I

7:00

had a couple of columns . One

7:03

was called Student

7:05

of Life , the other one which

7:07

was basically personal

7:09

and professional growth , and

7:12

the other one was called the

7:14

World is my Oyster . I

7:16

worked for 14 years for United Airlines

7:19

. Another

7:21

dream of mine came true . I always

7:23

wanted to go to the other side of the world and

7:26

it was the best benefit in all my entire

7:29

life being able to hitchhike

7:31

airplanes , get on , stand

7:33

by and

7:36

over the water . I've been

7:40

a passenger in the economy class once

7:42

. All the other trips which I had , plenty

7:44

of them business and first class all

7:47

the way , baby .

7:49

No , that's awesome . I also used to work in

7:51

aviation , so we have a couple of things in common

7:53

. So , given all

7:55

of the things and I

7:57

don't wanna brush over them or make them

7:59

, diminish them in any way but clearly you've

8:01

been through significant trauma

8:03

and pain in your life , and Lisa

8:06

Joe , and yet here you

8:08

are . You're coaching people , you're writing

8:10

, you've authored a new book recently that

8:12

we're gonna talk about , you

8:14

mentor people and you do all

8:17

of these things to try and support

8:19

people who are dealing with . What was the turning

8:21

point for you ? How did you go from

8:24

what can be perhaps seen

8:26

as self-destructive behaviors or acting

8:28

out that trauma or whatever however you wanna

8:31

language it ? Never

8:33

any judgment in any of it for me

8:35

, but was

8:37

there a moment or what

8:39

were some of the steps that you took to

8:42

turn your life around and start

8:44

creating something new ?

8:48

I have been on a mission since I was 13

8:50

years old to find out who

8:52

I am . I studied metaphysics

8:55

. I found God . God

8:57

spoke to me the first time at a

8:59

temple Buddhist temple in

9:01

Bangkok , when I was waiting for

9:03

a train up to Chiang Mai . God

9:06

spoke to me and told me I've been here all

9:08

along for you and I started crying

9:11

so hard and God

9:13

told me I want you to go home and get out of

9:15

those metaphysical groups which

9:17

some people call cults . I was

9:19

involved with that , so I went home

9:21

and I did that . So I've had divine

9:24

guidance . And

9:27

there's a place called Keras

9:29

Community here in Denver . It's

9:33

a residential community for people

9:35

who experience severe

9:37

mental health and

9:39

that place changed my life . That

9:42

place produces miracles . Five

9:45

years after I came out of that experience

9:48

, I got on the board of directors

9:50

there as the secretary . I

9:55

got a job at the Colorado Quitline

9:58

as doing intakes

10:00

for people quitting smoking , which

10:02

led me to working at a mental health

10:04

center as an adult outpatient

10:07

peer specialist , which

10:09

I'm still working there . And I'm

10:11

also an entrepreneur . I do

10:13

coaching at my coaching practice called

10:16

Health to Happiness , and basically

10:18

what I do is I help those

10:20

in recovery create

10:22

and implement value-driven

10:25

success stories . So

10:27

one of the gifts that I've been given is

10:30

the gift of inspiration and

10:33

understanding , mixed in with

10:36

a sense of humor and a very

10:38

conversational , friendly

10:41

demeanor . People I

10:43

really connect strongly with people in

10:45

and outside of my work . Where

10:48

, wherever I go , I

10:51

make the effort to

10:53

connect with people , whether

10:55

it's at Starbucks , saying , oh

10:58

, today is free for me , ha

11:00

ha ha . It gives them a little bit of laughter . Whatever

11:03

it is Pain for the person behind

11:05

me , pain picking up the

11:07

tab for whatever they ordered , just

11:10

bringing joy and light into this world . It's

11:12

so important I stay away from

11:15

the news I have . Well

11:17

, I take that back . I have a little blurb

11:19

that gets sent to me called inside

11:23

brief or some of the I don't know , I

11:25

forget what it is inside daily brief

11:27

. It's bipartisan , I

11:30

get the headlines and that's all I need

11:32

. I know

11:34

that people are really messed up

11:37

mentally because of the footage

11:39

of the news media

11:42

and they're

11:45

traumatized . People were traumatized

11:48

because of COVID . They isolated

11:50

themselves and I know

11:52

this based on my own experience . When

11:56

I was 30 years old , married to an alcoholic

11:58

, I discovered that I had

12:00

complex PTSD and

12:03

my journey with that is . I

12:06

was working at United Airlines . I

12:08

took a walk on a break around

12:11

a park that had a bunch

12:13

of kiddos playing football and

12:16

right ahead of me was a man beating

12:19

the shit out of his son or

12:22

another kid , I don't know . I

12:24

went back to work and

12:27

I acted like it

12:29

seemed like nothing was wrong with me . The

12:32

next day I was frozen

12:35

. I was scared . I

12:38

didn't work for three and a half months

12:40

. I felt like I didn't want

12:42

to show my face to the world and

12:44

all of the memories and all of that

12:46

imprinting of emotional

12:48

imprinting came

12:51

back to me and I was in some

12:53

crisis groups and how to deal with

12:55

crisis . I remember that was

12:57

even triggering too much for

12:59

me and I was running down the

13:01

hall crying and

13:04

it's been all been

13:06

part of my journey though all of this , the

13:09

bipolar . I've had psychotic

13:11

manic episodes in my

13:13

life where I have

13:15

lost everything except for

13:17

my journals . Twice , when

13:20

I lived in Arizona when

13:23

I was 20 , I went on

13:25

vacation to San Francisco to

13:28

visit a friend , a couple friends . There

13:31

I had my first psychotic

13:33

manic episode and I was hanging

13:35

out in a drug-infested

13:38

neighborhood called Haydashbury

13:40

. I was doing LSD , I

13:43

wasn't . I didn't sleep for like 12 days

13:45

or something . I wasn't on math

13:47

, I was just on my own psychotic

13:50

, chemically imbalanced brain

13:52

and I

13:55

left everything I brought with me . I put it

13:57

in a was in a grocery

14:00

cart . I pushed out into

14:02

the middle of the road , I

14:04

had sex with a stranger 10 feet from traffic

14:07

in the Golden

14:09

Gate Park the park

14:11

that's right next to traffic and

14:14

I lost it . I lost my

14:16

mind . I don't remember parts of it

14:19

, the

14:22

reason I got

14:24

hospitalized . That first time is I took

14:26

a cab to my friend's

14:29

house in Berkeley

14:31

and I didn't have any

14:33

money to pay the cab

14:36

fare . The cabbie called

14:38

the cops . The cops came

14:40

, they were on their way to

14:43

the police station . They

14:45

arrested me and as soon as I opened

14:47

my mouth and started talking about the

14:50

thought police and the stat and the other , they

14:53

turned around and took me to the mental health , the

14:55

mental hospital . Instead . They

14:58

thought I was schizophrenic . They

15:01

didn't diagnose me . They were giving

15:03

me medication for a condition I didn't have

15:05

until I went to

15:07

. But my parents flew out

15:09

from Denver , took me back to Colorado

15:12

and a doctor

15:14

named Mark Trubowitz . He was my

15:16

first doctor , psychiatrist

15:19

. He diagnosed me properly and

15:21

I got treated correctly and

15:24

I hated the meds . I

15:26

wanted to prove to myself in the world that I

15:28

wasn't crazy . In my

15:30

early twenties I kept getting off the meds

15:32

because I internalized

15:34

the stigma the stigma

15:36

that society puts on everybody

15:39

that mental health is a weakness , that

15:42

it's shaming , that we're broken

15:45

, that we're crazy , we're violent

15:47

, all of that . I

15:50

didn't want to be any of that . So I'd

15:52

get off my medication and within

15:54

four or five months I have another psychosis

15:57

and end up in the hospital . I've

16:03

always been a

16:07

food addict , a

16:10

compulsive overeater , since

16:12

I was a little girl . I also had

16:14

this thing called love addiction , where

16:16

I would become obsessed

16:18

with men and

16:21

contact them frequently

16:23

, couldn't get them out of my mind

16:25

. The first time that happened was in

16:27

first grade and it really

16:29

came into play when that 19-year-old helped

16:32

my 14-year-old move away or

16:35

run away . Rather , I'm

16:38

in treatment for both of those . I

16:40

believe in the 12-step program . My

16:44

sex addiction came into play

16:46

, really flourished

16:49

when United Airlines shut

16:51

down my office in Denver and

16:54

moved me to Chicago . I

16:56

didn't know a single soul in Chicago

16:59

when I moved there , but right

17:01

before I moved I

17:03

discovered the internet . I discovered

17:05

I could go on Craigslist and

17:07

post an ad to

17:10

hook up with a man and

17:13

it worked and it was good sex . So

17:15

I was hooked . So I

17:17

did that . When I got to Chicago they put

17:19

me up in a nice Marriott and

17:22

I was sleeping

17:24

around with strangers . I immediately

17:26

went to India to

17:29

do a work project . I started

17:31

doing it there

17:33

. I came back , I

17:36

was out of control and one morning

17:39

before I went to work , something

17:42

came to me . I believe it was God

17:45

. It flashed

17:47

in my mind a sign that said

17:49

Sex Attics Anonymous and

17:52

I can swear that I saw a sign

17:54

like that in Denver and my

17:56

friend said look at that . And

17:58

I said Sex Attics Anonymous , who'd

18:00

want to be that ? But

18:03

whatever sign that I saw or maybe

18:05

I imagined it I got on

18:07

the website . I

18:09

looked up a meeting , I wrote it down . I

18:11

wrote down the address . I was in a state

18:13

in my pocket for three and a half weeks . I

18:19

was scared . I didn't want

18:21

to go . I didn't know what to

18:23

expect . I had heard the 12 step program was

18:25

like a cult , a secret

18:28

society . So

18:30

I finally went one winter

18:33

night . It

18:35

was at a church . I

18:37

walked up the stairs , I was shaking

18:39

, I thought it was going

18:42

to fall and

18:45

so I sat down . And I sat down very briefly and

18:48

I walked in this room and there were

18:50

30 men and me . It was in

18:52

a gay neighborhood , a bunch of gay

18:54

men and straight

18:57

men also . I sat down

18:59

as

19:02

soon as the first person shared

19:05

that these are my people

19:07

are not alone I

19:11

found my tribe .

19:13

That is so important , right Like

19:16

that experience of because

19:18

and you know this is not my creation

19:20

, this comes from the work of Brunei Brown but this idea

19:22

about shame and shame being such

19:24

that you know , we

19:27

have such a need to connect

19:29

and belong as human beings and shame would tell us

19:31

that there's something about us , if known by other

19:33

people would mean that we don't get to

19:35

connect and belong , so it's so isolating

19:37

, right Like that . Anything that we have shame around

19:39

and society has shame around and

19:42

we have these networks of conversations like

19:44

just serves to have us feel and have

19:46

that experience of being so isolated

19:48

and alone . I remember feeling that as a

19:50

young mother , and

19:53

so like

19:55

, finding other people who've had

19:57

that shared experience that you can

20:00

connect with is just so

20:02

vital to being able to

20:04

, you know , move forward in

20:07

creating something different in your life .

20:11

Absolutely . You're very

20:13

wise , amber . You just summed

20:15

it right up , you hit the nail

20:17

on the head . So important

20:19

, just around yourself with

20:22

other people who have the same

20:24

lived experience , because

20:27

and that's what 12 step programs are

20:29

all about- and

20:31

you start loving and caring for people

20:33

, then that reflects back

20:35

to you and you start loving and caring for your son

20:38

, and that's what that Keras

20:40

community gave me , too , was

20:43

. I was living with 17

20:45

other people who had severe mental

20:47

health , and I started loving

20:50

these people , the ones I

20:52

didn't like . I love them , and

20:54

it wrapped off on me to myself Just

20:57

a miracle , just

20:59

a miracle .

21:01

It's so great that you say that . I

21:06

think oftentimes what we have struggled

21:08

with in other people is sometimes a mirror

21:10

reflection of what it is that we're struggling

21:13

with within ourselves . So I think that's

21:15

always a great access . When I'm getting

21:17

triggered by someone or I'm finding

21:19

myself overwhelmed or frustrated by someone

21:21

else's behavior , it's like where

21:23

is that ? Where is that over here , where

21:25

I am ? Why can't I be

21:27

with that ? And I think that is

21:31

very powerful . You talk

21:33

about a lot the importance of taking baby

21:35

steps and I think this is huge . And

21:37

you use the imagery and some

21:39

of your social content where

21:41

it's like there's these two ladders and one

21:43

ladder has a lot of little steps and another

21:45

ladder has less

21:47

steps and less rungs on the ladder

21:50

, thus kind of harder to get from

21:52

one step to the next . How important

21:54

has it been for you , with all

21:56

of the things that you've dealt with and overcome , in

22:00

having that frame that

22:03

it's just about keeping taking action

22:05

and small steps ? How

22:08

has that contributed to your ability

22:10

to be able to overcome all of the things that you've

22:12

been through ?

22:15

Amber , it's been vital . I

22:18

teach it in my coaching practice Baby

22:21

steps , baby steps , baby steps

22:23

. That's where it's at . You

22:26

can't go from zero to 60 and

22:28

half a second , or

22:30

at least I can't , I've

22:32

tried . But

22:34

if you take one small step

22:36

toward your goal

22:38

or your destination , or even

22:41

if that destination means taking

22:44

better care of yourself , you've

22:47

got something to build on the

22:49

momentum . If you want to get the momentum

22:51

going . Sometimes if

22:53

I say , okay , I want to take better

22:56

care of myself or I want to write a book , and

22:59

you think of the whole oh my gosh

23:01

, how do I even wrap my head around this ? And

23:04

then you say , fuck it , pardon

23:06

, my French . You

23:09

can edit that out if you need to .

23:12

I'll just put the explicit warning on this one . It's

23:14

all good , no worries .

23:15

Okay , I'm not going

23:17

to wrap this . I'm not going to do it because it's too

23:19

hard . But when

23:22

you start making

23:24

baby step goals and

23:27

you take those baby

23:29

steps , you're building momentum

23:31

and you're building confidence

23:33

that you can keep going . And

23:37

that's how I got to know myself . It was

23:39

baby steps , I didn't know it at the time

23:41

and that

23:44

has been the key to my growth , of

23:46

getting to know who I am , of getting

23:48

to the point where I love myself

23:50

and getting to the point where

23:53

I'm doing what I love Absolutely

23:57

love what I do with my coaching practice

23:59

held to happiness , with my work at

24:01

the mental health center , with

24:05

my writing . And I just wrote a book here

24:07

called the Pit of Despair how

24:09

God , prayer and the

24:11

Twelve Steps Saved my

24:13

Life from Addiction . That

24:16

was baby steps . I tried

24:18

so hard to wrap my head around this writing

24:21

a book because it's been a dream

24:23

since I was a little girl and

24:26

my father told me he

24:29

gave me a bunch of shitty messages

24:32

to cling onto and

24:34

one of them was you're

24:36

going to starve in a gutter even if you try to become

24:38

a writer . Lisa Jo , your

24:42

listeners , don't tell your kids that

24:44

, please , because

24:46

that prevented me from even approaching

24:50

editors . I didn't start freelance

24:52

writing until I was 31 , 32

24:55

. And I flourished at that

24:57

. I'm a good writer , gosh , darn it

24:59

. If you are , it's

25:01

your work . Yeah , that

25:03

messaging just . I

25:07

finally said okay , I'm going to feel the

25:09

pain of this and I'm going to do it anyway

25:11

. Feel the fear and do it anyway

25:13

. And I'm going to show up and

25:15

I'm going to suit up and show up

25:18

for my journaling

25:20

. I'm going to write one page , or

25:22

I'm going to write one sentence or

25:24

one word . If I write that

25:27

one sentence , I've met my goal

25:29

. If I make a paragraph or

25:31

a page or a chapter

25:33

, that's a cherry

25:35

on top of the cake , that's

25:40

bonus material and

25:43

that makes me , that

25:46

gives me confidence , that

25:48

gives me good feelings about

25:50

myself and my abilities and

25:53

it just grows . It

25:55

just exponentially grows

25:57

and the more momentum you have

25:59

. Just think of a snowball

26:02

at the top of a mountain and it's tiny

26:04

but it's going down the mountain

26:06

, getting bigger and it gets faster once

26:09

it gets bigger and you grow

26:11

even faster by starting

26:13

off with small steps .

26:16

I think you've used the word a couple

26:18

of times . You know you've talked about knowing

26:20

and confidence , and I think that is so

26:24

crucial because the more

26:26

action you take and the more successes

26:28

that you see , even if they're small , it doesn't

26:30

matter whether they're , you know , big or small . This doesn't

26:33

exist in real . You know . This is , this

26:35

is a kind of big and small is created

26:37

in the language . It doesn't exist in reality

26:39

, right In terms of being able to

26:41

create and manifest the things that you want in life

26:43

. But that

26:46

faith in oneself

26:48

that you get by

26:50

failing , getting up , going through rough

26:52

circumstances , overcoming them , being

26:55

creative , being innovative , finding

26:57

solutions , you know being in despair and

26:59

not knowing how to , whatever

27:02

it is , you know , put that next food on plate

27:04

, on the food on the table or pay your rent . You know I

27:06

had , after I left my husband

27:08

when I was 20 years old . You know literally

27:10

$60 in my pocket with two kids

27:12

to feed and no job , and

27:14

it's like , but the more you

27:17

go things through like that in life

27:19

and come out the other side , it's like you

27:21

develop this deep sense of knowing

27:23

that , no matter what life throws

27:25

at you and no matter what challenges it , you

27:28

know that you go through that you're

27:30

going to be okay and

27:32

I think , as we , you know , one of the biggest milestones

27:34

that I kind of passed

27:36

over the last few years is really falling

27:39

in love with myself , because that was missing

27:41

for a long time . And inside

27:43

of that , you know being worthy of receiving

27:45

and asking for help , and like

27:48

not having to try and manage

27:50

everything on my own , and then the journey just becomes

27:52

easier and easier as you allow more of that

27:54

energy . You know you put out all of this

27:56

energy into the world . A lot of us do

27:58

, right , people who've gone through difficult

28:01

times or have low self-esteem or were

28:03

beaten , you know , like beaten down either

28:06

, whether it's physically or verbally , emotionally

28:08

. You know we become people

28:10

who aren't good enough and

28:12

you know , don't love ourselves

28:15

, and so then we develop

28:17

ways of coping in the world like that , and

28:20

I think , the more you

28:22

know , my guidance to anyone that I work with or come

28:24

across in life is like start

28:27

the work of learning to love yourself , because that

28:29

transforms everything . Yeah

28:31

.

28:33

I agree . 100 billion

28:36

, trillion , gazillion percent . It

28:39

has to start with you . You

28:41

can't truly love another

28:43

person until you love yourself . In

28:46

a lot of ways , and

28:48

what I did in order for my

28:50

process of growing , getting

28:52

to know myself and discovering love for

28:54

myself was I used

28:59

my life as an experiment . I looked

29:01

at my life as a great

29:03

experiment . I would study

29:05

things . Self-love what

29:07

the fuck is that ? I'm

29:10

going to study it . I'm going to write , read

29:12

books , I'm going to write about it

29:14

. I'm going to underline , I'm

29:16

going to transfer a sentence

29:18

from the book that inspired me onto

29:21

my journal . When you write

29:23

it down , it imprints onto your

29:25

brain and I remember

29:27

those things and it's baby steps

29:29

also . So , to

29:31

your audience , if you

29:33

struggle with self-love

29:36

or confidence

29:38

or setting boundaries or

29:41

whatever , start

29:44

looking at your life as an experiment . Study

29:46

, talk to people who are where you

29:49

want to be . That's

29:51

a great way to get a mentor too . Have

29:54

fun with it , even in your suffering

29:57

. Have fun with gaining knowledge

29:59

. That's going to help you Be

30:02

a student of life . That

30:05

was another one of my columns . Student

30:07

of life , that's

30:11

a great concept .

30:12

I didn't make it up .

30:14

I didn't make it up , but that's what I

30:16

can describe my life , how

30:18

the process has been , and I'm really verbalizing

30:21

that right now for the first time . So

30:23

thank you , Amber , for this outlet for

30:26

me to share my story . You're

30:29

so welcome .

30:31

It is , it absolutely

30:33

is . And you said something you

30:35

said I didn't create it , but anyone

30:37

who does this work with any kind of authenticity

30:40

has to acknowledge that it's giant standing

30:42

on the shoulders of giants . We didn't

30:44

create any of this stuff , but we are bringing our

30:46

unique expression to it and

30:48

our authentic sharing . Really

30:51

, like I was just thinking earlier , you

30:53

share so raw , like your sharing is so raw

30:55

and authentic and vulnerable about

30:58

the things that you've done and the experiences that

31:00

you had , and that takes a crap

31:02

ton of courage to be able to just

31:05

put yourself out there and not

31:07

really care about what people might say

31:09

or how they may judge you . Yeah

31:14

, I'm just really moved , you

31:16

know again , by your courage , lisa

31:18

Joe , to share yourself in the way that you have

31:21

and

31:23

not worry , as I was saying , not worrying about

31:25

how people might judge you or what

31:27

they might think about you , but just I think

31:29

you know the difference that

31:31

your story makes for people who

31:33

might not feel like they have their

31:35

own voice yet or might not feel

31:37

like they have anyone to speak for them . So

31:40

I really just want to take a moment and acknowledge you for

31:42

being the kind of person that puts

31:44

yourself out there in that way , to be a

31:46

voice and to be someone who stands

31:48

for others .

31:50

Thank you so much for that . It didn't

31:52

come overnight . I used to care so much

31:55

what people thought and I felt

31:57

so much shame , that same

31:59

shame that Breine

32:01

Brown talks about . I

32:04

saw her vulnerability Ted

32:07

Talk years and years ago and was blown

32:09

away , because I've moved

32:12

from the shame into wholeheartedness

32:14

and connection and

32:18

if you help

32:20

and you never know if

32:22

you help one person by sharing your story

32:25

you've done your job right . We're

32:28

here on earth to help each other . I

32:30

believe that , and

32:32

you can rest

32:35

on the fact that your

32:37

story potentially can help the

32:39

next person . Take that

32:41

risk . Share it Never

32:43

know .

32:44

And you talk about that right , and this is like you

32:46

know , I was raised with the concept of servant

32:49

leadership and my mom and

32:51

you know she had a really hard journey

32:53

. But I think there's something about this

32:55

idea of getting up to something bigger than yourself

32:57

and sometimes , when we are in not

32:59

the best of place , by contributing to other people

33:02

or being of service or helping others , it

33:04

can provide us a

33:07

motivation in our life . You

33:09

know , ideally everyone would love themselves

33:12

so much that they would be able to create anything

33:14

that they wanted in their life , just

33:16

because they're worthy and they want it and

33:18

they love themselves and they're going to go do it . But I think

33:20

for a lot of people , you're

33:23

in varying , varying , different places when it comes

33:25

to how worthy you are , and I think it's an ongoing

33:28

evolution as we grow in life

33:30

, and so helping

33:32

, helping others helps you is something

33:34

I know you say . I think that

33:37

can be a really powerful access to

33:39

being able to get outside of your own

33:41

way .

33:42

Yes , and if you can't

33:44

share your story yet , volunteer

33:47

somewhere . Help the next person

33:49

, contribute to your

33:51

community . You can do that

33:53

without my rawness , which

33:56

did not come overnight . It took work

33:58

for me to get to where I'm at

34:00

. This is not a you know zero

34:03

to 60 second race

34:06

, car race or whatever

34:08

journey it's

34:11

been over time . I'm 53 now . I

34:13

know I look like I'm 35 .

34:15

I know I was going to say Good

34:20

genes .

34:21

One of my , one of my uh , just

34:23

a sidebar one of my clients

34:26

who's 20 years old . I

34:28

said how old do you think I am ? And she said 37

34:32

. And I said I , I joked around

34:34

. I said no 36 . She goes oh

34:36

, I was close , that

34:39

was just last week , so I

34:41

love that was such a great compliment .

34:43

That's awesome . So talk to me a little bit

34:45

. I was going

34:47

to say tell me a little bit more about your book . You

34:50

know , I know that it's it Barnes and Noble

34:52

, but you know , tell us

34:54

more about what the book's about in . I

34:56

know you said you've been wanting to write it since you were

34:59

young .

35:01

Here it is again . The cover

35:03

is amazing . It was done by the art

35:07

department at the publisher Morgan

35:10

James publishing house , which I

35:13

can't say enough good things about them . They

35:15

are so good to their authors . Wow

35:18

, it's led by David

35:21

Hancock , who's written

35:23

who's has this hand , and he's

35:25

an author too . Anyway

35:28

, my book

35:30

comes out of a night

35:32

where I woke up at like two

35:34

o'clock in the morning . I

35:36

slept , walked to my file cabinet . I

35:40

took out a file that said

35:42

prayers . I hand wrote

35:44

a bunch of prayers that I would share with my

35:46

sponsor for two

35:49

or three years no , probably more than

35:51

that . And God said count

35:53

the prayers . So I counted

35:55

and there were 85 of them that I

35:57

had put in this file . And God

36:00

told me I can hear God's voice , which you

36:02

know . Some people say , oh , that's crazy . I'm

36:04

gifted like that . I'm grateful

36:06

. I don't know he's listening to

36:08

him , but anyway , I

36:11

counted out the prayers that were 85

36:13

of them and God told me

36:15

my got my instinct

36:17

. God deep inside of me said see

36:21

your , your first book's already written . And

36:25

so it was a journey from

36:27

that to actually telling

36:30

my story and

36:32

I developed these prayers that I

36:34

I wrote and

36:36

I elaborate it on and

36:39

originally it was going to be a prayer book . It

36:42

was about 18,000

36:44

words and Morgan

36:46

James was interested . I wrote

36:49

out a nonfiction book proposal

36:51

, handed it over

36:53

to an acquisition editor and

36:56

he told me he says congratulations

36:58

, we're interested . And

37:01

then we got to talking and he gave me the best advice

37:03

. He said normally . He said

37:05

normally we don't publish something

37:07

that's 18,000 words

37:10

, we publish something that's 200

37:12

pages , which

37:14

is 60,000 words . And

37:17

the reason being is because this

37:19

, when the book is like

37:21

this and a bookshelf , people

37:24

need to be able to read that and

37:26

if it's too small they

37:28

can't read it . So you

37:30

want to have a thick book . And

37:34

it's for presentation and a bookstore

37:36

. So I

37:38

took that and I revamped

37:41

and revised and

37:43

spent the next four months turning

37:45

it into my memoir

37:48

, my addiction story with

37:50

my prayers there's probably about at

37:53

least 20 of them weaved

37:55

throughout the the chapters

37:58

and it's very much

38:00

about me and God and my

38:03

faith and

38:05

my prayer life . I'm

38:07

a devout Christian . I didn't always

38:09

used to be . I was in a metaphysics Then

38:12

when I discovered God at a Buddhist

38:14

temple . I believed in God

38:16

at that point and

38:19

I was into some New Age stuff and it is what

38:21

it is . There's no judgment on

38:24

my part , because that's

38:28

how your power to some people . To

38:30

me it's all the same . God

38:32

, jesus , buddha , allah

38:35

, the source

38:37

, universe , energy , mother

38:40

Earth they're

38:42

fancy words for the same thing . You know

38:44

our creator , what's

38:46

created us in this beautiful

38:48

, wonderful world we live in and universe

38:51

.

38:52

Well , it sounds like that New Age journey

38:54

you went on got you to that Buddhist temple . You probably

38:56

wouldn't have been at a Buddhist temple in

38:58

Thailand if you didn't have the New Age journey

39:01

right , so it got you to whatever that next

39:03

expression of your faith and your

39:05

. You know your relationship with the divine , which I think is

39:07

beautiful . Lisa Jo , it has been

39:09

an absolute pleasure talking to you and

39:11

listening to you share about your incredible

39:13

and and really you said the word earlier inspirational

39:16

journey . Thank you so much

39:18

for the work that you do and the contribution

39:20

you are to so many , and

39:23

just for coming on the show and sharing

39:25

yourself so openly with with me

39:27

and with my audience . I really do appreciate

39:29

it .

39:31

Thank you and your listeners can get in touch

39:33

with me at Lisa

39:36

Jo Barr at gmailcom

39:38

, l I S A J

39:40

O B A R R

39:42

at gmail , or go

39:45

to my website . Lisa Jo

39:47

barcom has

39:49

all my information on it , some

39:51

fun writing , some blogs , real

39:54

time diaries and all

39:56

the information for my coaching , and

39:59

there's a complimentary 20 minute

40:01

coaching session . I offer to see

40:03

if we could work , to see if

40:05

it's a good fit for you . So I

40:07

encourage your , your readers , to

40:09

to get

40:12

in touch .

40:13

Wow , really great . All of that information

40:15

will be available in the show notes for everyone

40:17

listening to this conversation . Again

40:20

, Lisa Jo , thank you , and for everyone listening

40:22

. Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode

40:24

of the show . I love you and I'll talk to

40:26

you next week .

40:28

Thank you so much for joining us for this week's

40:30

episode . For more information on the show

40:33

and our extraordinary guests , check

40:35

out conversations that matter podcastcom

40:38

.