0:00

Why do you go to church? I

0:02

mean, ask yourself these honest questions. That's

0:04

what Paul said at that Corinthian church. See if

0:06

you're really in the faith. Examine yourself. Am

0:09

I going to church because I'm making business connections there?

0:11

I'm going to church because I've got certain friends there.

0:13

Am I going to church just because I love the

0:15

inspiration? Am I going to church just because I'm

0:17

lonely? Those are all great reasons,

0:21

but they better not be the main reason. Hey

0:29

everybody, welcome to today's conversations. I'm

0:31

John joined by my beautiful wife, who I missed so

0:33

much last episode, but Lisa, it was so good with

0:36

Chris. I'm so proud of Chris.

0:38

It was amazing. Yeah. Amazing. Level

0:41

up. I just, you know, here's the thing, John, we

0:43

have so many books out there that people

0:45

know in theory, but they

0:47

have not lived it out in practice, and Chris has

0:49

lived it out in practice. Yes, he has. Love

0:52

it. So today we just want

0:54

to, if you're new to the show, welcome to

0:56

the show. You're probably new

0:58

to the show because somebody rated it,

1:01

somebody reviewed it, somebody even subscribed to

1:03

it. Really helps us. Got your attention.

1:06

And if you enjoy what Lisa and I are

1:08

doing here, we just felt we needed, and you

1:10

know, both of us have been in ministry for

1:12

over 40 years. We

1:14

both have individual platforms. We

1:16

have platforms together that God has entrusted us to.

1:19

Very few times do we get to come together

1:21

and like talk like a mom and dad.

1:24

And that's kind of what conversations is all

1:26

set up around, to be able to help

1:28

people with maybe filling in the

1:30

gaps of some of those things people are going

1:32

through that you just don't learn by just, you

1:34

know, reading the Bible or going to a Bible study.

1:38

And so I just want to encourage you,

1:40

please, please, please subscribe to the show. And

1:43

if you write a review, you might get

1:45

it read on the show, which I'm about

1:47

to do because struggle 16. Don't say that

1:49

right. Struggle. I am.

1:51

I'll go with struggle. Okay. I

1:54

feel like that's right. I am so happy to

1:56

have found this podcast with John and Lisa. I

1:58

have purposefully been listening in the show. shower when

2:00

I have some quiet time without my kids running

2:02

around. Wait, wait. I just need to say the

2:04

shower is a sacred space. You know,

2:07

the shower, you did a lot of your praying

2:09

in the shower. I am telling you, God

2:11

gave me, well, he's still, God gives

2:13

me downloads in the shower. With four

2:15

boys, no, I got everything in the

2:18

shower. Everything. I love that

2:20

baby. The first time I was alone. Anyway, that's

2:23

when struggle gets quiet time without kids

2:25

running around. I love that. We can

2:27

relate. It has encouraged my walk and

2:29

I often share these conversations with my

2:31

husband. You both rock. I

2:34

love that. You both are rock solid and anointed.

2:36

That is so precious. I wanted just to be

2:38

rock, but that's awesome. Well, you know, John,

2:42

we just, we kind of are preempting some of the things

2:44

we are going to talk about today. Right. We're

2:46

going off script today. Yeah. Because

2:49

we have 40 years, as you

2:51

mentioned, 40 plus years in

2:53

ministry, 42nd year that we're

2:56

going into marriage. Pretty much. Okay.

2:58

40 second year of marriage. And

3:00

the advantage of being in our sixties

3:03

and married over 40 years and in

3:05

ministry for 40 years is we have

3:07

seen a lot of things and

3:10

we have seen a lot of people start

3:12

out on fire for

3:14

God, loving God, loving people, loving

3:16

the word, loving the truth, loving

3:20

holiness, start out

3:22

so right and

3:24

then end up in a, in

3:27

a very different place. And

3:29

it's just, I mean, in all honesty, I

3:31

was talking to a younger leader earlier this

3:33

week on the phone and I

3:36

said that John and I have

3:38

had the benefit of

3:41

Godly examples and

3:43

then people who are object lessons. And

3:46

when I say object lessons, we

3:48

got to be observers up

3:51

close and we saw

3:53

some things that we weren't,

3:55

we didn't judge. And here's the, here's the

3:57

challenge. When you see

3:59

something. You, you will

4:01

be tempted to judge the person, but

4:04

instead you got to remember that

4:06

person is God's servant.

4:09

He's not my servant. She's not my

4:12

servant. They're God's servant. But what I do

4:14

want to do is make

4:16

a note in my

4:18

spirit to say, save

4:21

the grace of God there go I, I

4:23

am going to guard my spirit. I

4:25

am going to pray in the spirit.

4:28

I'm going to have people around me

4:30

that will make me accountable. And you and

4:32

I have been through, is it

4:34

three leaders? Is it three leaders? Well,

4:37

yeah, two major leaders that are no longer

4:39

in ministry. Well they are to an extent,

4:41

but they had nothing compared to what they

4:43

have. They had the best known churches in

4:45

America, both of them at the time we

4:48

were there. I

4:50

remember our very first pastor, it was

4:52

heartbreaking. He had every well-known

4:54

communicator on the planet coming to the

4:56

church. And

4:59

I, my job, if you remember Lisa

5:01

was, I remember, yeah, we, we picked

5:03

up the guest speakers. We

5:05

brought them to dinner. We brought them to the

5:07

services. And the first year of that, that position

5:09

was created a lot of

5:12

conflict in me. And that's because I would see,

5:14

I would see people that

5:16

I was driving to service that I felt like I was

5:18

sitting next to Jesus. Then I

5:20

would see people I was driving to service that I felt

5:22

like, um, are we going to a, a rock concert right

5:24

now? Are we going to a service? And

5:26

yet I would watch those people, those ministers

5:28

who I was driving around, they would get

5:30

out of the vehicle. They would go on

5:33

that platform. And I saw people come out

5:35

of wheelchairs. You and I both did. We

5:37

saw crutches get put up on the wall from

5:39

somebody that was crippled and, and, and, and had

5:41

a limp and was walking perfectly. Neck

5:44

braces. And I

5:47

would, my, my, my mind would scream, John,

5:50

how dare you even think?

5:53

Negatively about this minister. So

5:56

I had this conflict going on because my heart

5:58

knew something was wrong. Remember after

6:00

a year, God spoke to me and He said, Son, I brought

6:02

you here not only to see what to do, but what not

6:04

to do. Right. He said, if

6:07

you see them doing things that you

6:10

know in your heart's right, wrong, file

6:12

it. And one day if

6:14

I entrust you with a position in ministry, remember

6:18

that. But He said, and

6:20

this was really stern, don't judge them.

6:23

You don't know their relationship with me.

6:26

And the don't judge them was so strong.

6:28

And Lisa, I think, I look at Paul,

6:30

he said, hey, if anybody thinks they stand,

6:32

let them take heedless, they fall. And

6:35

I think the moment you go, okay, we've

6:38

been in ministry for 50 years, we've got

6:40

it. We've got everything. You're about

6:42

ready to fall. Five years, 10 years, 15 years.

6:44

I don't care. It's humility and

6:47

meekness. And I see it over and over.

6:49

And I look at Isaiah 57 verse 15,

6:51

where God said, I

6:55

dwell. I am the Holy

6:57

One who inhabits eternity. I

6:59

dwell with the person who has

7:02

a humble and a contrite spirit. Now,

7:04

can we pause there because you brought up something

7:06

that I think is a question for a lot of

7:08

people. Yeah. Seeing

7:10

one thing behind scenes, seeing

7:13

another thing in the platform, and

7:16

seeing this incongruency. And

7:19

I remember you and

7:21

I having this moment where

7:23

the Holy Spirit showed us that

7:25

the gifts, the gifts

7:28

are given. These are things that God gives

7:30

somebody. So maybe there's a minister and they

7:32

have a gift of healing

7:35

or a gift of prophecy, and

7:38

they have this gifting on their life.

7:40

Well, that was something God just gave

7:42

them, but fruit is different than

7:44

gifting. Fruit has to be

7:46

developed and gifts are just imparted. And

7:48

there's a lot of times where people

7:51

don't understand, if you come to God

7:53

and say, I will give you this portion of my life,

7:56

He'll take that portion. But usually it's the

7:58

portions of your life. that you

8:00

hold back from Him that gets you in

8:02

trouble. And what we've learned, and we, you

8:04

know, John and I love the Holy Spirit.

8:06

We love the anointing of God. We love

8:09

the power of God. But

8:12

the power of God and the anointing of

8:14

God's Holy Spirit is a gift for

8:16

the people. It is not an endorsement

8:18

of the minister. Do you remember how we

8:20

said it to each other? Yes. The anointing of

8:22

God, the power of God on a person's life

8:24

is not the approval of God. That's right. The

8:27

approval of God is character.

8:30

And that's true. So they might be incredible ministers,

8:33

incredible communicators. Right. But

8:36

at the end of the

8:39

day, anyone, yours, mine, anyone,

8:41

our undoing is never, you see something

8:43

we do in public. It's

8:45

what we hide and what we do in private. And,

8:48

and, you know, I feel like God is doing

8:50

something right now in the body of Christ where

8:53

He is shifting and He is shaking

8:56

and He's bringing fruit that's

8:58

good and He's removing

9:01

fruit that's bad right now.

9:03

And it's actually His mercy. If you look at

9:05

1 Corinthians 12, 13, and 14,

9:07

you have 1 Corinthians 12. He talks about these

9:10

gifts, the gifts of healings, the gift of faith,

9:12

the gift of miracle, working of miracles. And

9:14

then He says, the greatest of these is love.

9:17

He said, because if I have any of these

9:19

gifts, but I don't have love, now let's talk

9:21

about love. Love is kind right, but it doesn't

9:23

parade itself. It's not conceited. And

9:26

so somebody who is mature in love

9:28

is somebody that is removed from pride.

9:30

Pride is, is something that is diametrically

9:33

opposed to love. Well,

9:35

God resists the proud and God is

9:37

loved. And He resists. Yes. Yeah. But

9:39

then when you say love, you run

9:42

into the problem of society today is

9:44

love about love is about me accepting

9:46

you, no matter what you do, no

9:49

matter how you live, no matter what

9:51

you say. And I'm

9:53

going to embrace and applaud

9:55

and approve you when in reality,

9:58

this is the love of God that we we

10:00

keep as commandments. Now why is that? Because God's

10:02

our creator and He knows what makes us, He

10:04

knows what breaks us. And

10:07

God wants the very best for every human

10:09

being. He loves every human being so much

10:12

that He gave His Son and Jesus, who

10:14

is God manifest in the flesh, came and

10:16

died because God wanted the very

10:18

best. He wanted to purchase back our

10:21

freedom. We went into captivity as

10:23

a human race. He purchased us

10:26

back. So now if He went through

10:28

that kind of a length, the torture,

10:30

the beating, the spitting, the lying to

10:32

redeem us back, does

10:35

anybody, how can anybody ever think, and

10:37

if you think this, just change it

10:39

right now, that this God

10:41

would want something that's bad for you.

10:44

So the person who is the most deceived person

10:46

is the person that would ever think God wants

10:49

something bad for me. That's why James

10:51

comes along and he says, hey, don't be deceived. In other

10:53

words, if you remember

10:55

what I'm about to say, this is what James is

10:57

saying, you will become deceived proof, deception

10:59

proof. Now in a day when Jesus

11:01

says four times about the day we're

11:03

living in, do not be deceived. I

11:05

want to know how to be deceived

11:07

proofed. He said, this is how you

11:10

become deception proof. Every good and every

11:12

perfect gift comes from above from the

11:14

father of lights and of whom

11:16

there is no variation or shadow of turning. In

11:18

other words, God doesn't even have the shadow of

11:20

changing, right? Every good gift

11:22

is from above. Do you know what James is

11:25

saying there? This is it in simplicity. There is

11:27

nothing good for you outside of the will

11:29

of God. Now that's how it all started.

11:31

He felt that that tree that God said,

11:33

hey, leave it alone. Don't touch it. You'll

11:36

die. She felt there was

11:38

something good for her outside of

11:40

what God had already spoken. Well, he was told

11:42

that there was something good. Adam thought

11:45

she agreed to it. Yeah. Right. And

11:47

so what we have

11:50

got to remember is

11:52

that God, whatever he wants for our

11:54

life, it's never going to

11:56

be evil. It's never going to be bad. It's

11:58

going to be the best. Okay, so now

12:00

I'm a young believer. Okay. I've

12:03

just come to faith. I'm in

12:05

a season, I'm a Gen Z-year, a

12:07

millennial, and people are coming

12:09

to this place where there is a deconstruction.

12:13

And you and I have lived through a major

12:16

fall. We live in Colorado

12:18

Springs, and our pastor at the

12:20

time, it wasn't

12:22

just local, it went national,

12:25

it went international. Correct.

12:27

And I remember, I remember

12:31

you talked to our boys. Because this was

12:33

our pastor. This was our pastor. And now

12:35

we've actually been told ahead of time

12:37

before everybody found out in the media,

12:40

because sometimes there's attacks on your thing, maybe it's

12:42

not true. Maybe this is just people wanting

12:45

to malign people that are

12:47

Christians or believers or whatever. So

12:50

you took our two oldest boys and you took

12:52

our two youngest boys because you understood that you're

12:54

going to have to talk to each of the

12:56

boys, each of the groups differently because there were

12:59

different ages. What

13:01

was said to you by our

13:04

sons, our oldest sons? Well, first

13:06

of all, what, you know, I went

13:08

to them as a group, four sons, and

13:10

then I went to them individually. When

13:13

I went to Addison individually, I said Addison, he

13:15

was 19, almost 20 at the time. I

13:18

think he might've been 20. I said, Addison,

13:20

how are you doing after what I shared with you

13:22

guys yesterday? It was the next morning. I remember he

13:24

was cooking his eggs and getting ready to go to

13:26

the office. And he looked

13:28

at me and he said, Dad, pastor did not

13:31

die for my sins. Jesus did. And as soon

13:33

as he said that, I thought he's going to

13:35

be fine. Yeah, I remember you told

13:37

me he said, we still have

13:39

an amazing church. We

13:41

still have amazing friends. I'm

13:46

shocked that this happened. I

13:49

didn't see it coming, but he didn't

13:51

die for my sins. Jesus did. And

13:53

because I remember I was in Canada and I

13:55

called home and I was like, oh my gosh,

13:58

how are our boys? Yeah,

14:00

and you're like they're going to be okay.

14:03

And and what happens is we forget Because

14:06

it's so much easier to look at people we

14:08

can see Yeah, then

14:10

see the Jesus of the

14:12

scriptures, you know, I want to write I

14:14

want to I want to read Hebrews 12

14:16

to where it says looking to Jesus or

14:19

another one says keep your eyes on Jesus

14:22

The author or the founder and the

14:24

perfecter of our faith who for the

14:26

joy set before him endured the cross

14:29

Despising the shame and is seated on

14:31

the right hand of the throne of

14:33

God So the truth is when

14:35

we are looking at our favorite

14:38

preacher our favorite Christian

14:40

music artists our favorite Celebrity

14:42

who you know says oh, I'm a

14:44

Christian or whatever it is If we're

14:46

keeping our eyes on them if we're

14:48

spending more time following their lives pattern

14:51

Then Jesus's pattern we're

14:53

gonna get shaken any time They

14:56

come into a place of hardship. Yeah You

14:59

know Let's go back

15:01

to the very top of what we

15:03

start talking about humility. Yeah, what is

15:05

humility? It's not being weak and wimpy

15:08

humility is actually You're

15:11

complete and utter trust in God I mean David

15:13

was accused of being proud by his oldest

15:15

brother, but David was completely trusting God his older

15:18

brother wasn't Now I

15:20

want to I want to look at it. Can I

15:22

can I insert a CS Lewis? Yeah, quote

15:24

on humility to that thing was so good.

15:26

Yes, he is Lewis said that humility Isn't

15:29

thinking less of yourself.

15:32

It's thinking about yourself less, you know, and

15:34

so it isn't like oh, I'm a worm

15:36

Oh, I'm terrible. Oh, I'm a bad person.

15:38

It's like love that you're just not the

15:40

measure of everything God is the

15:43

measure of everything would love that quote. So you

15:45

don't see us

15:47

Lewis he We

15:50

want to be a people who if

15:52

we're not thinking about my limitations my

15:54

mistakes But we're looking at Jesus the

15:57

author the founder the one

15:59

who started And the one who finished

16:01

then he becomes our source. And

16:04

so again, we're speaking to a

16:06

generation that wants to see people

16:09

not fail But

16:12

to actually live a life out where

16:14

they show they believe what they said they

16:16

believe right and I I

16:18

just believe in order to finish well You

16:21

have to press into humility and

16:24

what does that journey look like for you? I Made

16:29

times does everybody take that journey? A

16:31

yearly journey. Well, you know, I mean I

16:34

I remember when I was 50 years old. I

16:36

prayed I said got it I

16:38

feel like I'm at halftime and half times

16:40

when you kind of assess I said if

16:42

there's anything that needs to be purged out Of me, would

16:45

you please purge it out? And I remember that summer

16:47

was the hardest summer of my life Thus

16:50

far. It's the hardest summer I've ever lived through and

16:52

I remember I called the pastor who was on our

16:54

board at the time I said, you know, I just

16:56

prayed that God would just burn anything out of me

16:58

that wasn't of him And

17:01

he started laughing. He said that's what guys

17:03

pray when they're in their 20s Not when

17:05

they're in their 50s and I remember thinking,

17:07

you know, cuz I really respect this board

17:09

member I don't agree with

17:11

that. I think you're never too old to

17:13

say God if there's something in my

17:16

life get rid of it. I believe

17:18

with all my heart that There

17:21

are levels of commitment That

17:23

we see in people in the American Church You

17:26

have people that really do love the

17:28

community of the church. They love their

17:31

pastor. He's very inspiring But

17:33

they haven't had that revelation of I've died with

17:35

Christ Paul said I'm

17:37

crucified with Christ. I don't need it's

17:39

not even me that lives it's Christ living in me Jesus

17:42

that if you're gonna walk with me, you got

17:44

to deny yourself. Take up your cross It doesn't

17:46

seem to be spoken very much in our American

17:48

Christianity And so I think what you've got is

17:50

you've got a lot of people that are you know

17:53

You can go to a you can go to a Taylor

17:55

Swift concert and there's a lot of people there a lot

17:57

of followers A lot of people really love Taylor You

18:00

can have a great gifted pastor and that

18:03

giftings from God and it's genuine But

18:05

if people are drawn to that gifting and that's

18:08

why they go because they love the inspiration.

18:10

They love the teaching they love right What

18:13

happens if he falls? If

18:16

you're rooted in you've you've you've

18:18

you've encountered Jesus in that prayer

18:20

closet and you said Jesus My

18:23

life is yours Completely

18:26

yours. I mean I'm

18:29

I'm out praying in the morning. I'm like I

18:31

love being your servant. I love being your servant

18:34

for eternity I love being under your rulership for

18:36

eternity There's so much trust

18:38

in his character that I've seen in

18:40

40 years that I know in my

18:42

heart That's where

18:44

people need to come. You have to press

18:46

into knowing him Really knowing him

18:49

and when you know him you think

18:51

less about yourself You think more about

18:53

other people you think about the eternal

18:55

things. That's what becomes important to you

18:58

Not these temporal things. Lisa. We've seen so

19:00

much come and go in our life I

19:02

mean, we've been married for four decades and

19:04

we've seen we've seen we've not only gone

19:06

around But we've seen America go around the

19:08

mountain several times We've

19:10

seen things come things go in the

19:12

church in the secular arena And

19:15

you know what we realized there's only one thing true and

19:17

that's the truth of God's Word Because he

19:19

is the one who endures forever and ever

19:22

and I just want to encourage every one of you We're at

19:24

the beginning of the year. This is the time to

19:26

really do a heart assessment Paul said to

19:28

the Corinthian church. They're very carnal. They were

19:30

very into celebrities. They had favorite preachers He

19:33

rebuked them for that. He said you got

19:35

favorite preachers You guys are

19:37

all carnal. You're a bunch of he

19:39

loved them He birthed this church, but

19:41

you know, he said to them he said examine yourself See

19:43

if you're really in the faith and you know, we're at

19:45

the beginning of a year It's

19:48

not dangerous to sit there and say am

19:50

I really a follower of Jesus? Well, and

19:52

even when you say as you were talking and if

19:54

you don't think I'm right, correct me But examine

19:57

yourself and see if you're in the faith. I don't

19:59

think that necessarily mean saved

20:01

or not. Are you living by

20:03

faith? Are you walking in obedience?

20:05

Because the Bible says the just shall

20:07

live by faith. So are you living in

20:09

your own strength? Are you self-willed?

20:12

Because somewhere along the lines it

20:14

feels like take up

20:16

your cross, fulfill yourself. You know, I

20:18

mean it's like I'm gonna fulfill myself

20:21

and I'm gonna carry my cross out.

20:23

There's no denying self. And even with

20:25

a lot of the Christian, you know,

20:27

beautiful, amazing people. It's self,

20:29

self, self, believe in yourself, listen

20:31

to yourself, don't doubt yourself. Well,

20:33

I would challenge people to say,

20:36

now if you've got a clear

20:38

communication with God and you know

20:40

there's no obstacles or idols in your

20:42

heart, there's usually not an

20:44

obstruction. But that

20:46

prayer, John, I would

20:48

just challenge everyone to pray that prayer. That

20:51

God, if there is anything, I mean

20:54

David would say, God, create

20:57

a clean heart and renew, renew a

21:00

steadfast spirit. Now we know the moment

21:02

we got born again, our

21:04

heart that was stony got

21:07

made heart of flesh. But

21:09

what happens is we get it

21:11

all kind of muffled and muddled

21:13

with other things. And I

21:15

feel like this is the season where God is saying,

21:18

I want my people sensitive. I

21:20

don't want your heart dull

21:22

or hardened. I want a sensitivity.

21:25

And going back to judging other ministers, you know, you and

21:28

I, and again, I don't want to harp on this too

21:30

long, but leave

21:32

that to God. Leave it to God.

21:34

You and I... They're not my servant. No, you and

21:36

I watched another minister talking about another

21:38

minister, you know, one minister

21:41

who hasn't done anything publicly

21:43

shameful, talking about somebody

21:46

that had what the time hadn't even

21:48

been proven in. And it was like, well, I don't

21:50

do these things. Well, here's the thing. When

21:53

one part of the body sins, it hurts

21:55

the whole body. You know, it's a

21:57

we can't like cut off the hand and say, well,

21:59

I've really glad that you know

22:02

that that proves whatever. We are

22:04

one body and when the

22:06

hand hurts the whole body hurts. It affects everything.

22:08

And who are you to judge another? I

22:10

mean God was able to make him stand or

22:14

he'll fall and it's not

22:16

my place. It's not anybody's place. It's

22:18

our place to pray, to believe the

22:20

best. It's our place to say

22:23

okay your fruit right now is wrong so

22:25

therefore I'm gonna pull away. You know in

22:27

the sense of I'm not gonna be fellowshipping

22:29

and I'm not gonna be going to bars

22:31

and shooting shots with you and getting drunk

22:33

every other night. That's not good fruit. So

22:35

I'm gonna pull away. I'm still gonna love

22:37

you. I'm still gonna pray that you have

22:39

a real relationship with God. But

22:41

I just I look at the parable. This

22:44

one rivets me Lisa and I think this one

22:46

everybody needs to think about contemplate but you have

22:49

this parable what Jesus talks about after about the

22:51

second coming in Matthew 25. He talks about

22:54

these ten virgins and I think the thing

22:56

that really got my attention the the very

22:58

first time I couldn't get past

23:00

this parable because he didn't say nine were

23:02

wise and one was foolish. I

23:05

look at here's ten virgins they all have lamps. Lamps

23:08

speak of light. An unsaid

23:10

person has no light. Has

23:13

no light. Okay Jesus said to

23:15

the believer you're the light of the world. So

23:18

all these are virgins they're all expecting

23:20

the return of the bridegroom. They're

23:23

virgins. They're not harlots. They're virgins.

23:26

But five are wise and five are foolish. So

23:29

what's what's what's at the center of wisdom? It's

23:31

the fear of the Lord. It's humility. Okay

23:33

fear of the Lord's the beginning of wisdom. It's

23:35

the very heartbeat of wisdom.

23:39

So five of them feared God. In other

23:41

words they didn't care. Whatever God

23:43

said whatever God's will was I'm in

23:45

a hundred percent but five

23:47

were foolish. Foolish

23:50

now how

23:52

were they foolish? Well for

23:54

years and years I didn't get this because

23:57

you know midnight came the

23:59

bridegroom came And all

24:01

had fallen asleep. They'd all fall asleep. They all

24:03

wake up. They all trimmed their lamps got their

24:06

lamps redlit But

24:08

the foolish ones they had no more

24:10

oil in their vessels They knew they didn't have enough and

24:12

they couldn't like their lamps and they

24:14

said to the wise give us some of your oil Because

24:16

ours is going out and the wise says we can't we

24:19

otherwise we won't have enough and

24:21

the wise said to the foolish go to those who sell

24:24

and buy for yourselves and For

24:26

years and years because here comes the bridegroom. Yeah,

24:28

and the foolish ones are left Out

24:31

and the wise ones are taken in Foolish

24:34

ones come back later and say open to us. He said I

24:36

don't know you now

24:39

For years, I didn't understand this and one morning. I remember

24:41

I remember where I was at I can close my eyes

24:43

and still see it I screamed out God. You got to

24:45

show me you've got to show me What

24:48

is this about go to those who sell and

24:50

buy for yourselves and that day God showed me

24:52

I want you to imagine five five

24:55

virgins walking into a oil

24:57

store a Camping store. Let's

24:59

say what's called brass post

25:01

pro shop, right? So the

25:04

five the five the five foolish walk

25:06

up and they say hey, I

25:08

want that lamp I want to be saved them

25:10

in their pajamas. Yeah, I want that

25:12

lamp. Here's here's the money. I want that lamp The

25:16

oil no, no, I want the lamp. Thank

25:18

God. I'm saved. I got light. Thank God.

25:20

I'm talking about earlier Yeah, okay. Thank God.

25:22

I'm safe. I got my lamp. Okay, then

25:24

the five wise go up and they

25:26

say this is all my savings This is everything I own.

25:29

I sold my house to get this and

25:31

they put everything on that On

25:34

that that counter and they say I want

25:37

to buy that lamp and with all that's left

25:39

over I want all the oil that that

25:41

money will buy. Okay The

25:46

foolish said I'm gonna give what I think is

25:48

required to be saved The wise

25:50

said I'm gonna give everything I have so

25:52

the foolish held part of their life back So

25:56

when you hold the first part of yeah when you

25:58

hold part of your life back You're

26:00

gonna be fine But when

26:02

it comes to be midnight, you might be

26:04

in trouble And this is why Jesus

26:06

constantly says he endures the end. He endures the end

26:09

Lisa We the

26:11

statistics today for people in ministry is

26:13

so scary There you

26:15

know 50% of the pastors who

26:17

started ministry 50% of them will not

26:19

last five years. That's the modern-day statistics

26:22

Five 50% five wise

26:24

five foolish. What happened? They

26:27

didn't say I'm all in They may

26:29

have seen social media. They may have been to some great

26:31

church services They may have gone, you know, I want to

26:33

I want to be a part of this. I want to

26:35

help people that also be congruent

26:38

with the parable about Setting

26:40

up to start a tower

26:42

and not counting the cost and not being

26:45

exactly the same thing Yeah,

26:47

so good. I didn't think of that. Mm-hmm So

26:51

here we are at the beginning of the year and I

26:53

want to say to everybody out here I know this is

26:55

this is tough stuff to talk about. Okay, but I I'd

26:58

rather have the tough stuff that keeps me strong to the

27:01

end then to hear the

27:04

The pleasant stuff that's gonna motivate

27:06

me But when midnight

27:08

comes right before he comes I'm

27:11

not ready So let's

27:14

take an assessment Why

27:16

are you walking with Jesus? Why

27:19

are you in ministry? Why do you go

27:21

to church? I? Mean ask

27:24

yourself these honest questions. That's what Paul said that

27:26

Corinthian church See if you're willing in the faith

27:28

examine yourself. I might want to church because I'm

27:30

making business connections there I'm going to church because

27:32

I've got certain friends there I'm not going to

27:35

church just because I love the inspiration am I

27:37

going to church just because I'm lonely I have

27:39

it all great reasons But

27:41

they better not be the main reason the main reason

27:44

is I have given

27:46

my life to Jesus Christ I am no longer

27:48

my own and I am passionate

27:50

about Obedience to him if

27:54

that's you you will be strong to

27:56

the end if you keep that that

27:58

sense of urgency to obey

28:00

God, you'll be strong until the end. And

28:02

Jesus said daily, if you

28:04

want to be my disciple, this is what

28:06

you have to do. Deny yourself. Deny yourself,

28:08

take up your cross and follow me. Daily.

28:11

He said daily. It's not one time you

28:13

go down to the altar, it's a daily

28:15

walk and every day it should be a

28:18

daily growth. So, you know, as John's asking

28:20

these questions, I'm gonna challenge you to do

28:22

what John did. Just ask the

28:24

Holy Spirit, is there any area in

28:26

my life that I'm holding back out

28:28

of fear, out of rebellion,

28:32

out of lust, out of just

28:34

maybe even ignorance? Is there any

28:37

area in my life that God,

28:39

you want me to surrender to

28:41

you? So I'm just gonna

28:43

believe that the Holy Spirit is gonna

28:45

speak to you and that you'll know

28:47

because he wants every obstacle removed out

28:49

of your life that would keep you

28:52

from being everything God created you to

28:54

be. I feel like we should pray right now together.

28:57

Let's pray. Just say this with me right

28:59

now and I mean don't say these words

29:02

unless you mean it. Say this, dear heavenly

29:04

Father. Dear heavenly Father. Thank you

29:06

for speaking to my heart. Thank you for speaking

29:08

to me. I've heard your voice. I've heard your

29:10

voice. In John and Lisa's voice. John and Lisa.

29:12

My heart hears you say. My

29:14

heart hears you say. Come and worship me.

29:17

Come and worship me. And Lord, I hear your

29:19

voice and I'm coming. This

29:22

very moment. This very moment. I give

29:24

you everything. My spirit, soul

29:27

and my body. My spirit, my soul. Everything

29:29

I am. Everything I am. Everything I have.

29:31

Everything I have. From this moment forward. From

29:34

this moment. Forever. Forever. I

29:36

am delighted. I am delighted. To be

29:38

completely yours. To be completely yours. Jesus. You

29:41

are my Lord and King forever. You

29:43

are my Lord and King forever. In

29:45

Jesus name. In Jesus name. Amen. Amen.

29:49

Well. Why don't you close this up?

29:51

Okay, all right. Well, thanks for tuning

29:53

into conversations with John and Lisa. Again,

29:56

John said it on the front and we love

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it when you rate, review. subscribe to

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home with the Bevears. John, you've got

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some stuff starting. You've got a new

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one starting. Yes. And

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then we've got Healthy Pastors Co. Yeah, Healthy Pastors

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Co. And you know, that's really your heart.

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Conversations with John and Lisa Bevears. We

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31:00

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