0:06

Okay, welcome to today's episode

0:09

of conversations with John and

0:11

Lisa Bevere. And John, I feel like this is

0:14

such a crucial, important

0:17

topic that we are going to be covering. We're not just

0:19

doing it in

0:20

one, we're going to do two, multiple sessions. Because

0:22

it's so important. And before we dive

0:24

into that, I just want to invite you

0:27

to rate, subscribe, give us some feedback.

0:30

If you do, you might get read

0:33

on conversation. So today's

0:35

impact is from Shamil Berta. And

0:37

this is what she says. Okay,

0:39

you two have been

0:41

part of my life since I was 16. How old is

0:43

she now? Yes, this always shocks me. And I'm 35 now.

0:46

Wow,

0:46

almost 20 years. When

0:49

I was 16, I went to a conference where Lisa talked

0:51

about body image to the young

0:53

ladies in Colorado. I can't thank you

0:56

enough for your real raw and true conversations

0:58

about the Lord to help people grow

1:01

into the men and women they are

1:03

today. That's really good. Okay, so today we're

1:05

going to be talking about two

1:07

parts on some spiritual warfare.

1:11

And one of the books I remember reading

1:13

John, when I was preparing for Girls

1:15

with Swords, is the art of

1:17

war. You

1:18

read the art of war. I did. I

1:20

love it. I did. I did.

1:23

So Sun Tzu is the author of the art of war. And I'm going to read a quote. He

1:25

said, if you know the enemy and

1:28

know yourself, you need not fear the

1:30

result of a hundred battles. If

1:32

you know yourself, but not

1:35

the enemy, for every victory

1:37

gained, you will also suffer a defeat.

1:40

If you know neither the enemy nor yourself,

1:42

you will succumb in every

1:45

battle. You know, one of the things, okay, I

1:47

love, I love the art of war, but I also

1:50

love the Italian mindset on

1:52

fencing. They said, you

1:54

know your enemy's strategy, but

1:57

you never play his game. You play

1:59

your strategy. game, you play to your strengths,

2:01

and we're going to be talking about, do

2:04

you know your enemy? Because

2:07

I think, you know, John, there was

2:09

a there was a moment

2:11

before we dive into this. I remember before we got married,

2:13

you know, I went back to my hometown

2:16

of West Lafayette, Indiana, and I

2:18

had such an awareness of spiritual attack.

2:20

Yeah, I remember it was attacking me

2:22

when I slept at night. I remember

2:25

I felt this constant oppression,

2:27

constant fear, started really

2:29

wrestling with eating disorders, and

2:31

my whole life felt disruptive. And

2:33

I called my spiritual father, Del

2:36

Doss,

2:37

and I said, Del, this is what's

2:39

going on. And he said, Lisa, I'm going

2:41

to tell you, it's not your parents. He

2:43

said, it is an enemy. And he said,

2:46

you're not wrestling against flesh and blood. But

2:48

there is something really dark. And he said, knowing

2:50

who your enemy is, is

2:53

half the battle when you know what

2:55

you are fighting against.

2:57

And also the Apostle Paul says in 2 Corinthians

3:00

chapter one, verse 11, he says, less

3:02

Satan should get advantage of us, for

3:04

we are not ignorant of

3:06

his devices. So not only do we know who our

3:08

enemy is, it's not flesh and blood, it's

3:10

not human beings. It's principalities,

3:13

powers, rulers of the darkness of this world, and

3:15

spiritual wickedness in high places. We

3:18

also know their devices. So in

3:20

essence, we've got that covered, which

3:22

you read from the art of war. And

3:25

the thing is today,

3:27

there is such an uprise of

3:29

spiritual warfare going on in America.

3:31

But the problem is, we're seeing

3:34

it

3:34

as flesh and blood. It's

3:37

flesh and blood fighting against flesh and

3:39

blood instead of realizing we're dealing with forces

3:41

that are trying to divide. And

3:44

division is Satan's purpose. He

3:46

wants to divide us so he can

3:48

conquer us. Yeah,

3:49

because houses divided. Will

3:51

not stand. Kingdoms divided. Will

3:54

not stand. Families divided. Will

3:56

not stand. Churches divided.

3:58

Will not stand. And if the enemy

4:01

can get us divided, he

4:03

can conquer. And that is why

4:05

the Bible says how good and

4:07

how pleasant it is when brothers and sisters

4:09

dwell together in unity.

4:11

But do you have unity around compromise? He

4:13

commands his blessing. No. Because I

4:15

do feel like there's a lot of people that are willing

4:18

to compromise

4:22

to have a false unity. Correct.

4:25

I believe that as well. And then you can look at

4:28

the healthy balance of that. Paul said there

4:30

must be divisions among you to the Corinthian church,

4:32

that those who are of approved fitness

4:35

and character might be recognized among you.

4:37

In other words, Paul was saying, you're going to have people

4:39

inside of the church structure that are going

4:42

to be compromising truth. He

4:44

said, and there will be divisions

4:47

among you because those who adhere to

4:49

truth, it will look like there's a division,

4:51

but it's actually so that those who are

4:53

of truth can be

4:54

recognized. But let's get back

4:56

to what we're really talking about here in

4:58

our society today. So it's not the liberals

5:01

or the Democrats or the Republicans

5:04

or the conservatives that are the problem.

5:06

What is

5:06

it? I think we as believers

5:09

need to realize these people are prisoners. They're

5:11

prisoners of war. When

5:14

people are prisoners of war, I

5:17

should say this, demonic forces want

5:20

to express themselves, but they

5:22

need a physical body to express themselves.

5:24

Example, Jesus delivers the

5:26

demoniac. What do the 2000, because

5:29

it was the legion of demons, a 2000

5:31

demons in that man say, please,

5:35

we want to go to the pigs. Now, what's the guy

5:37

doing? He's cutting himself.

5:38

Right? So he's got a suicidal

5:40

spirit on him. Right? As soon

5:43

as those spirits leave him and go into

5:45

those pigs, the pigs commit suicide. They

5:47

run down the hill and go into the lake and they all die. So

5:50

that spirit of suicide

5:53

manifests itself fully through those

5:55

pigs. And that is what that

5:57

man was fighting against. Now, when the man gets free.

6:00

the Bible says he's clothed and he's

6:02

in his right mind. Now this

6:04

is a guy that people are terrified

6:07

of going near. He

6:09

was running around in the tombs in the places of

6:11

death. They didn't have a,

6:14

what do you call them? Insane institutions,

6:16

asylums. They didn't have asylums back in

6:18

those days. So they had to put those guys out in

6:20

the tombs, out in the wilderness, and he,

6:22

they would chain them and he broke

6:24

the chains. The demonic power was so

6:27

strong in him, right? So people

6:29

feared and wouldn't even go near him, yet Jesus,

6:31

one encounter with Jesus, and he's sitting

6:33

with Jesus clothed and in his right mind.

6:35

And then Jesus makes him an evangelist. He says, go tell

6:37

the 10 cities. So

6:38

all these- Wait, he didn't send him to seminary

6:41

first? No, he didn't. Okay. But can I

6:43

ask you something, John, because there are people that

6:45

would say that

6:46

when Jesus died on the cross, that

6:49

Satan was stripped of all of his authority and power.

6:52

Is there still demonic oppression?

6:54

Is there still principalities

6:56

and power? Like tell us about that.

6:58

Absolutely. Because Paul made the statement

7:00

in Ephesians chapter six, long after Jesus was raised

7:02

from the dead, we don't wrestle. We don't war

7:04

against flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers,

7:06

rulers of the darkness of this world and spiritual weaknesses

7:09

in high places. And you're probably open

7:11

to it. I did. And it says, we are supposed to take

7:13

the whole armor of God, which

7:15

is what? Girding our loins about the truth. That

7:17

means, hey, truth girds

7:19

us. That's what, that's what stabilizes us,

7:22

right? Shotting our feet with the preparation

7:24

of the gospel of peace, above all taking the shield

7:26

of faith where we'll be able to quench

7:28

all the fiery darts of the evil, taking the

7:30

what? Helmet of salvation and the sword

7:32

of the spirit. I forgot the breastplate of righteousness, but

7:35

we literally need to put on the armor of

7:37

God, which that the enemy fears

7:40

the word of God. He fears it because it's literally

7:43

a sword and he has been disarmed. So

7:46

when we would realize is

7:49

unbelievers don't have this, right? Unbelievers

7:51

are totally susceptible to demonic

7:54

attacks. Correct? I mean, they open

7:56

up easier to demonic forces.

7:58

Right. We have the power. to

8:00

speak to these forces in the name

8:02

of Jesus and they must obey us.

8:04

Jesus made the statement. He said, behold,

8:07

I give you power

8:09

over all, all,

8:12

not 98 percent, all the

8:14

power of the enemy and nothing shall

8:16

by any means hurt you. Now it's Luke 10 19. So

8:20

we need to keep that in mind when we're addressing

8:23

these situations. We don't need to fear.

8:25

When you fear God and you've humbled yourself among

8:27

the mighty hand of God and you have that armor on

8:29

and you're walking in obedience to

8:32

fear.

8:32

Okay, so then how does the enemy

8:35

gain access into

8:37

our lives? Because I am seeing

8:40

that he he slips in. Yes.

8:43

And you know, I'm gonna we're gonna talk about some specifics

8:46

on that. But you know, John, you know, a few years

8:48

ago, I had the incredible privilege

8:50

of ministering at the Q Conference and the

8:52

speaker before me was a

8:55

Catholic exorcist.

8:56

I remember that. And he began to

8:58

talk about how the

9:01

spiritual oppression and

9:03

possession in the United States of America.

9:06

Now, again, this is back in 2018, was

9:09

reaching an epidemic proportion, spirits

9:11

of suicide, spirits of all these different things.

9:14

And we asked him, we said, why?

9:16

How is this happening? How is this gaining entrance

9:19

in the lives of Americans

9:22

in the lives of Christians? Because we've

9:24

seen crazy, crazy things overseas.

9:27

But the the

9:27

demon forces here are a little

9:30

bit more subtle. And he said, one

9:32

of the major things was through

9:34

television.

9:35

He said people are watching things they

9:37

should not allow to come into

9:40

their home. And they are inviting

9:42

spirits in so they're finding

9:45

ways into people's lives.

9:48

And they're giving the enemy legal

9:51

access. I remember that something he said he

9:53

said, Satan is a legalist. You

9:56

have a protection when you're an obedience.

9:59

Yes, when you deny

10:02

God's word or his, his

10:05

provision for protection in your life

10:08

and you partner

10:10

with things that open

10:12

the door to demonic things. Yeah. Uh,

10:16

he, he takes legal acts. That's what Paul was

10:18

talking about with the Corinthian church. He was saying less

10:20

Satan get advantage of us for we're not ignorant

10:23

of his devices. Do you know what he was talking about specifically

10:25

there? Unforgiveness. So Paul

10:27

was telling them, Hey, when you

10:30

refuse to forgive, cause Jesus said, forgive

10:32

us as we have forgiven those who have sinned against

10:34

us. That's not a suggestion. That's right. That's the Lord's

10:37

prayer. Jesus said, if you don't forgive your heavenly

10:39

father will not forgive you. Remember he said that. Okay.

10:41

And Mark 11. All right. So

10:44

when we refuse to forgive, we give

10:46

foothold to the enemy. Um, I will never forget

10:49

ever. Well, I forget this. There

10:51

was a, um, I was at CBN

10:54

years ago, uh,

10:55

Pat, Pat Robinson, Terry Muson,

10:58

and they're there.

11:00

They have a chaplain there or, or a

11:02

guy who runs like the chapel

11:04

for the whole thing. He's kind of like the pastor of the

11:06

staff back in those days. And he

11:09

shared that there was a person

11:11

who had come in that they were ministering

11:13

to, and they just could not

11:16

get this person free. The person wanted to be free.

11:18

The person was a baby, baby Christian, wanted

11:20

to get free, said, please, can you

11:23

have your counselors pray for me? And he said,

11:25

we were baffled until the

11:27

Holy Spirit gave us a vision.

11:31

And we saw a, that

11:34

every time we prayed for him, this person

11:36

was in a wind tunnel, right? And,

11:39

or excuse me, not this person. We saw a

11:41

demonic spirit. We saw like a wind tunnel

11:43

and a demonic spirit had a hold

11:46

on a bar. And when we

11:48

prayed, it was like a massive wind of

11:50

the Holy Spirit went through and the, and the Dean

11:52

had just hung up a hold. It just

11:54

hung on. How interesting. And,

11:57

and the Holy Spirit revealed to them, he's

11:59

holding unforgiveness.

11:59

So they asked him and he said

12:02

when he started saying it was something, I think it was

12:04

his father or something like that, and they

12:06

let him in a prayer to forgive. As soon as

12:08

he forgave, they

12:09

had another vision and they saw the wind blow and

12:11

they saw that demon just gone like that. So

12:14

it had legal access,

12:16

a legal hold because of the

12:19

unforgiveness. How about Ephesians? Paul says,

12:21

don't let the sun go down in your wrath, right? Lest

12:24

we give Satan a foothold.

12:28

That's the exact translation in the NLT.

12:30

A foothold.

12:31

Can I just say, I remember when we were early

12:33

married, I would,

12:35

if I didn't forgive you before we went

12:37

to sleep at night, it was like I dreamed all night

12:40

and got madder and madder and madder

12:42

in the morning. I'd turn to John and be like, you know what you

12:44

did in my dreams. You were so upset at me. It

12:47

wasn't even a real thing, but because

12:49

I had slept with that

12:52

unforgiveness and that bitterness, it

12:54

had taken over my mindset, had robbed

12:56

me of my rest. And

12:59

we actually are not created for that.

13:01

You know, so Lisa, the Bible

13:03

says the whole world, literally the

13:05

whole world is under the sway or the influence

13:08

of the evil one. I mean, that's crazy.

13:10

So when you get born again, all of a sudden

13:13

you are free. Because you're part

13:15

of the kingdom. Yep. You're part of

13:17

the kingdom of God. You're technically free, but you

13:20

have to drive out these enemies. Just

13:22

like when God said, hey, that land is yours, Israel,

13:25

but you got to drive out all these enemies. And

13:28

then

13:29

we have our friend. All right. This

13:31

is exciting to me. First of all,

13:33

my son, Alec and his beautiful wife,

13:35

Maddie, we had some conversations around

13:37

this. It looks like he went to our family

13:39

friend, the rabbi, Brian. We

13:41

love Rabbi Brian, my Sicilian rabbi.

13:44

And he talked about some of the

13:47

giants in the land. I love

13:49

that he broke down the different

13:51

tribes and what the tribes actually

13:54

represent. That's crazy amazing. There's nothing

13:56

new under the sun. The things that they

13:58

fought, we are free.

13:59

fighting now. So we're going to talk about each

14:02

of those enemies that they had to drive

14:04

out of that promised land because it's very symbolic

14:06

to where we are today. We have to drive

14:09

many of these enemies out and just think

14:11

about it. Lisa, they were taken areas

14:14

like one tribe would take an area. Yeah, there's

14:16

only one at one of these enemies. We're

14:18

going to read in that area. So when you

14:20

get born again, you may have

14:22

a real problem in an area of anger. You

14:25

may have another person may have a real problem

14:27

in the area of self discipline. Some of the things we're going to see

14:29

is we start talking about these

14:30

seven. Oh, actually, how many

14:32

is it Lisa? Is it seven? These seven?

14:35

Eights. Eights, we call them. Seven giants.

14:37

That they had to drive out. So let's

14:39

get into them. The

14:40

first one he said, we're going to talk about the Hittites.

14:43

And the Hittites were,

14:45

it's like a ruling spirit over phobia,

14:48

terror, deceit, and fear.

14:50

Well, the children of Israel had to drive these guys

14:52

out. Exactly. God said, this is your land, but you got

14:54

to drive them out. And I think it's very symbolic to the

14:57

fact that we get born again. Yep. But

14:59

there are giants with the Hittites. And that's why we got to drive

15:01

out. Right. But I also love the idea

15:03

that deceit and fear and

15:05

phobia. Every time God

15:07

appears to a person

15:10

of promise, one of the first things

15:12

the angels say is do

15:15

not fear or fear not.

15:17

So everything of God's

15:21

promises in our life usually has a fear

15:25

that tries to stop it to try to block

15:27

it. So the Hittites invented

15:30

those fear. You and

15:32

I were reading through the Bible where the 10 spies

15:35

came back and said, there's giants

15:37

in the land. We're grasshoppers.

15:40

They were afraid for their wives and their children.

15:42

And God was like, okay, guys,

15:44

not going to be a good end for you. I'm

15:46

not good. Can you pronounce that one? Gurgishites?

15:48

Yeah, the Gurgishites. Okay. Tell

15:50

me about that. Feeling foreign,

15:53

never fitting in, lacking

15:56

of belonging. So there, would

15:58

you say those are your spiritual vagabonds.

16:01

Yeah. They, they never fit

16:03

in. They always are on the outside looking

16:05

in and the enemy probably presses

16:08

on that

16:09

to create a, usually that's

16:12

a root of offense. If you look at, uh,

16:15

Kane Kane said, I'm going to be a wander

16:17

and a vagabond for the rest of my life. So

16:20

you get this, this, he's offended.

16:23

He's got this complex. Um, I'm

16:25

just, nobody accepts me. Nobody understands

16:28

me. Nobody gets me. That's the gurgashites

16:30

and that is not of God because we're baptized into

16:32

one body. All right. If you look at the

16:35

Amorites, evil speaking, negative thoughts,

16:37

okay. That's a big one for a lot of people.

16:39

You, you really helped me with this. So

16:41

let's, let's talk about that because I think people

16:43

do it in innocence. Um,

16:46

they'll say things like my like,

16:49

okay, I fight allergies

16:52

and I remember you saying, don't say

16:55

my allergies. They're not

16:57

your allergies unless you want to possess them. Exactly.

16:59

So I can say things like, Hey, I'm, I'm wrestling

17:02

with these allergies, not owning them,

17:04

not saying these are mine. I embrace them. I

17:06

mean, I shiver Lisa. If somebody says something

17:09

like that in regard to a bigger, more deadly

17:11

disease, right? Um, I just sit there and sometimes

17:14

I get a chance to stare, share. Other times I realize,

17:17

Hey, it's not the situation, but yeah, evil

17:20

speaking and negative thoughts matter

17:22

are planted. I believe by the enemy

17:24

and I believe that these Amorites represent

17:26

the enemy, what he does. We have

17:28

thoughts that we have that come from our heart. And we have

17:31

thoughts that come in from the outside

17:34

and that's the ones we've got to

17:36

be careful

17:36

of. I think too many people listen

17:38

to themselves instead of speak to themselves.

17:41

Can you, I love it when you said that. Can you

17:44

give an example of how they do? Yeah, I just, I feel

17:46

like, um, uh, nobody gets me. I feel

17:48

worthless. I don't feel like I'm doing any good,

17:51

man.

17:52

Don't dwell on those thoughts. The

17:54

Bible says you have to replace it

17:57

with what Jesus

17:59

says. Jesus said,

19:55

if

20:00

I am the measure of everything. Yeah. So of

20:02

course. And societies and Instagram is

20:04

the measure of everything. Sure. Right? Sure.

20:06

Absolutely. Okay. So next is parasites

20:09

or purr purr purr purr. It

20:12

sounds like parasites. But it's it purr.

20:14

Parasites. Parasites. Yes. Okay.

20:17

Feeling unprotected

20:18

in an unwalled village, lack of discipline.

20:21

Oh yeah. Wow. Here we go. That's a big one.

20:23

Self-control. So a lack of self-control,

20:26

a lack of discipline. That's one of the fruits of the

20:28

spirit. Self-control. Absolutely. I

20:30

still, yes. Hallelujah. I still can remember

20:32

going to Alex teacher.

20:35

Do you remember that? She was like, well,

20:37

I was shocked to hear that you guys were ministers

20:39

since there seems to be a glaring

20:41

lack of self-control.

20:42

I'm like, he's a six-year-old

20:44

boy. Oh my God. Do you remember that? Seriously?

20:47

She's like, and that's a footage of spirit. Yeah. She could see him now.

20:49

He's so successful now. I know. It's crazy. Yeah.

20:51

High-vites. Yes. Which is limited

20:54

vision. All right. Limited life,

20:56

limited vision. How many people settle

20:59

far below what God has called them to do because

21:01

of having those kind of thoughts and those

21:04

kind of enemies attacking them.

21:05

And can I touch on that? Do you know, going

21:07

back to the whole judges where Deborah

21:10

says village life had ceased.

21:13

And it's, and when I was studying that the

21:16

Israelites were afraid to tend

21:18

the fields they even had because they thought

21:20

they would be attacked by the enemies. So

21:22

they did not tend what they had. Nothing

21:24

came in. Nothing went out. Everything

21:27

was shut down. And when everything

21:29

is shut down, when you don't have purpose,

21:32

you start to have infighting. And so

21:34

it's very

21:35

interesting. There was an infighting

21:37

and the people forget it's

21:40

the enemy is the outside. So right

21:42

now, I feel like that's our culture right now. We have infighting

21:45

when we forget that we have an enemy that

21:48

is attacking us and we are not one another's

21:50

enemies. That's so good, Lisa. We

21:52

got the Jebusites, which is entitlement

21:56

and looking down your

21:58

nose at others. Yeah.

21:59

That is a huge one. And

22:03

so these are, you guys might want to just go back

22:05

over this, write this down, but these are

22:07

things that, man, if these thoughts start

22:10

hitting you, you have to directly

22:13

speak

22:14

to them. 2 Corinthians 10

22:17

verses 3, 4, and 5 says, though

22:19

we walk in the flesh, we don't war.

22:23

Listen to this. You're not in playground. You're

22:25

in the war zone. We don't war according to the flesh.

22:27

For the weapons, listen to this. We

22:29

have weapons of our warfare are

22:31

not fleshly, but they're mighty in God

22:34

to the pulling down of strongholds.

22:36

What are the strongholds? They're not up in the atmosphere.

22:39

He lists them casting down

22:42

every reasoning. Okay.

22:44

A reasoning. We just read to you

22:47

reasonings. It's imagination. The better

22:49

translation is casting down every reasoning and

22:51

every high thing that exalts itself against the

22:53

knowledge of God and bringing every

22:56

thought captive to the obedience of Christ.

22:58

That's what Paul says. The next statement is so good. He

23:00

says, ready to punish all of this obedience

23:03

when your obedience is fulfilled. Another

23:05

words, you don't have authority

23:07

over what you tolerate. If

23:09

I tolerate pity, I

23:11

tolerate

23:13

lack of self control. I

23:15

tolerate these things that we've

23:17

just gone through. Unforgiveness,

23:19

anger, going down to bed. I tolerate

23:22

it. I have no authority over these things. So

23:25

in your obedience, Paul

23:28

says, ready to punish all

23:30

disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

23:33

There is something to be said about being

23:35

obedient. I know it's a word that people don't

23:37

like because they immediately, their mind goes to the

23:39

law. That has nothing to do with the law of Moses.

23:42

Obedience has to do with

23:43

the fact that God has empowered you. Listen

23:45

to Paul, what Paul says in Philippians

23:47

chapter two, as you have always

23:50

obeyed, not only in my presence,

23:52

but in my absence also work out your

23:54

salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who

23:56

is at work in you both to will and

23:58

to do of his good pleasure.

23:59

Listen to what Jesus said, you are my friends if

24:02

you obey everything, all

24:04

my commandments, everything I command you

24:06

to do. Okay, listen to what Jesus says,

24:09

go into all the world, make disciples of all nations. What

24:11

does he say? Teaching them to observe

24:14

everything I've commanded you. There's obedience.

24:16

Old Testament, we had to obey

24:19

to earn favor with God. The New Testament is

24:21

we have favor with God. We have

24:23

his grace before we ever did anything

24:26

to earn it. We can never earn it. But once

24:28

we have his grace, that grace empowers us

24:30

to obey. I

24:32

love that so much. So we

24:34

are going to close. Want to thanks, thank

24:37

you all for tuning in. I'm very awkward on the closing

24:39

in case you haven't noticed that in past episodes.

24:42

Okay. All right. We want to remind you to rate,

24:44

subscribe and review the

24:46

show. The other thing we want to remind you of, we have a whole

24:48

discipleship acts app

24:50

that has tons of courses,

24:52

books, resources on there. And it's called

24:55

messenger X. You can get it by

24:57

going to the app store or to Google play,

24:59

or you can just go on your computer and go to messenger X.com,

25:02

download it. You'll have all that at your fingertips,

25:05

literally thousands, probably over

25:07

a thousand hours of discipleship resource

25:09

materials on there. And it's in different languages.

25:12

And then we want to remind you also

25:15

the awe of God just came out and words

25:17

with God just came out this spring.

25:20

Both books are available at all your

25:22

bookstores or on Amazon, however you

25:24

want to get it. Now, until next

25:26

time, this has been conversations with

25:29

John and my beautiful

25:31

wife, Lisa.

25:32

We hope you enjoyed this episode of conversations

25:35

with John and Lisa Baveer. If you

25:37

haven't already, make sure you subscribe

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and rate this podcast wherever you love

25:42

to listen. Also, if you haven't already, go

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right ahead and download messenger X to hear more

25:46

content from John and Lisa Baveer and

25:49

other great messengers. Again, thank you

25:51

so much for joining us and we'll see you next time on

25:53

conversations with John and Lisa.