1:52

Welcome to Cooper and Kerry have words . My

1:54

name's Barry Cooper . I live in a place called

1:56

Deland in Florida . 4000 miles

1:58

away from me , across the Atlantic , is

2:01

my friend , james Kerry . We've

2:03

known each other for what 30 years

2:06

or so now and James

2:08

is over there in Yoval's summer

2:10

set . James , how's life ?

2:14

Life is good . It's starting to be autumnal

2:17

, which is great for me , because , although it's

2:19

the end of the cricket season , it's the beginning of

2:21

autumn , and I love autumn .

2:23

So that's all good . The

2:26

smack of leather on Willow . It's a wonderful time

2:28

of year , isn't it all round ? Now

2:30

, what is it ? This is very much come

2:32

off your bat , but just to continue

2:34

the metaphor , and when I heard the subject , I

2:36

thought , yeah , this definitely

2:39

needs to be talked about . What is it

2:41

that you wish to share with us today ? What have you brought

2:43

to show the class ?

2:45

Well , I have brought listening , and

2:48

particularly with reference to the verse in

2:50

James , chapter one on which I recently

2:53

preached a sermon , that we should be quick

2:55

to listen , slow to speak

2:57

and slow to anger

2:59

, and there's an interesting kind of connection

3:02

between those , and some

3:04

people are already listening , just thinking , well , it's about

3:06

time James Kerry listen to that advice . Being

3:08

slow to speak , let the other guy

3:10

get a word in edge ways . So

3:13

I tend to think as

3:16

I speak as well , so I'm a bit of a verbal

3:18

processor , I think .

3:20

What drew you to that particular passage , or was it

3:22

a sign to you ?

3:23

It was a sign to me , but we've been doing a summer

3:25

series in my church about our

3:27

mouths , our ears , our

3:29

I don't know feet .

3:31

Yeah , other parts of the body .

3:32

I don't remember ? Yeah , spleen , no idea . There's

3:35

plenty of that . And although actually

3:37

this most recent Sunday

3:39

we did mouth as well , which we will also

3:42

hopefully get onto , because it's

3:44

talking about also in

3:46

James chapter three

3:48

I think was it four I've

3:50

got it here somewhere James three , where

3:53

James doesn't think much of our ability to speak either

3:56

, so it's

3:59

a bit of a wow , you

4:01

guys are the worst . So I thought it'd be good

4:03

to talk about that , because I think it

4:06

really did surprise me once I looked

4:08

at the verse , particularly in context as well

4:10

, the fact that it links listening

4:12

to being slow to anger

4:14

. I thought well , this could be an interesting

4:16

chat and I'd be interested in your initial

4:19

take on it . I mean , I wrote a sub stack about it which we can

4:21

link to in the show notes as well , and

4:23

as you read it , maybe what jumped out at

4:25

you .

4:26

Yeah , well , I was just going to say just in

4:28

passing , if you're not on James's sub stack , make

4:30

sure you get on there , because he's turning out

4:32

great material on there , week by week as

4:34

well , worth reading . And

4:36

what is James

4:39

essentially saying then ? James

4:41

is he saying listen

4:43

, chums , you've got

4:45

two of these , you got one

4:48

of these . Just you

4:50

know , take a , take a hint from

4:52

nature . What , what exactly

4:54

is going on here ? Help us to dive deeply

4:56

into this .

4:58

Well , firstly , james I think is a fascinating

5:01

book because it doesn't sound

5:03

like the others . I think it's really

5:05

interesting how James has got a different

5:08

tone as well , luther would agree with you . So

5:10

, yes , that's right , he has his own reservations about it

5:12

. But James , who we think is the brother of Jesus

5:14

in the case , in this case I would

5:17

say James is the book that sounds most like

5:19

Jesus's words and talking

5:21

, because the way Paul talks and the way

5:23

Jesus talks actually sounds quite different

5:25

in terms of tonally and stylistically

5:27

and conceptually , is well , in terms

5:29

of abstract theology , whereas

5:32

James sounds like halfway between

5:34

Jesus , particularly

5:36

in the Beatitudes and Proverbs

5:39

. There's lots of wisdom tightly

5:41

packed together , but it's not just sort of fire

5:45

hosed out although that would be fine if

5:47

it were . But , in particular , what

5:49

struck me was the context of this

5:51

verse is the idea that we

5:53

don't want to be double minded . I think that's the

5:56

theme of James . Don't be tossed

5:58

around by different opinions

6:00

and different feelings . You want

6:02

to be rooted , and one

6:05

way in which that happens and

6:07

boy , we need to hear this now , in an age

6:09

of anger is

6:12

the fact that do you know what it starts

6:14

with listening , which I thought was a very

6:16

surprising place to start

6:18

. So there's lots of preamble in

6:20

chapter one where James

6:22

is unpacking . You know the fact

6:24

that we do need to be much more rooted

6:26

and not blown around , but

6:29

that we are easily blown around

6:31

. I think .

6:33

Yeah , and presumably if we're getting angry

6:35

, just looking at James , chapter one , verse

6:38

19 , and following here , if we're getting angry

6:40

, we are not . And

6:42

not only we're not listening , but we're also not doing

6:45

, we're not acting on the words that

6:47

we hear . Because he seems to be making

6:49

a connection here , doesn't he , between you

6:52

, know ? He says verse 22 , but

6:54

be doers of the word and not hearers

6:56

only . So

6:58

there's a connection not only with

7:00

being angry and not listening , but then , of

7:02

course , being angry and not actually obeying

7:04

God's word . Yeah , and

7:07

we do see that , don't we ? Anecdotally , I think , pastorally

7:09

, the most difficult

7:12

conversations you have with people

7:14

pastorally is you feel that quite

7:16

often there's a hostility there , which

7:18

means that they're just not really hearing

7:20

you or , for that matter , more importantly

7:23

, hearing God's word , and they're

7:25

getting into a spin as a result of it . Just

7:27

words , but good words

7:29

. That's where ideas

7:31

begin . Maybe you should listen

7:33

to them . Is the solution to this

7:35

? Then , going straight to the solutions

7:37

here , what would you say to someone

7:39

who struggles to

7:42

listen when

7:44

they are just in everyday conversation

7:46

with people ? Because that does seem to be a

7:48

thing , doesn't it ? The thing , where people are just

7:50

thinking of what they're going to

7:53

say next rather

7:55

than actually really being in the moment listening

7:57

. I mean , how is there a way we can get

7:59

into the ? Get better at that ?

8:01

Well , yeah , I think one way he

8:03

says by not answering your question is

8:06

to take an extra step back and

8:08

just think about the diet that's

8:10

going in through our ears . So we're

8:13

pretty obsessed with the diet that goes in through

8:15

our mouths , but what do we ? What

8:17

are we listening to ? We don't actually switch our

8:19

ears off at any point . I

8:21

think that's quite significant , and if you're

8:24

a podcast listener , it

8:26

may be that you spend an awful lot

8:28

of time listening to podcasts

8:30

that you either

8:32

violently agree with or

8:35

violently disagree with , or

8:37

you're sort of just trying to consume and audit

8:39

information as fast as possible . And

8:42

these are all fine things

8:44

to do . You know , we need a balanced diet

8:47

, both through our mouths but also

8:49

through our ears , and I think one thing

8:51

that I've really noticed recently

8:54

is that I do need to stop listening

8:56

to anything and just let myself

8:58

think and not constantly require input

9:01

. That therefore requires how do I feel about

9:03

this ? How do I feel about this ? And

9:05

so you know , yesterday I drove three

9:08

hours in a car and I listened to a . I listened

9:10

to a the Daily Prayer app

9:12

, the Church of England Daily Prayer app , for the first 20 minutes

9:14

, which has got it's mostly Bible

9:17

, liturgy , psalms , readings , lecture

9:19

, new readings and that kind of thing collect

9:21

. And then I listened to a podcast

9:24

, which is actually a productivity podcast I think it was the Cal

9:26

Newport one that I quite like and

9:28

then my brain started working . But then

9:30

I just switched off all audio and for about an hour and a half

9:33

I was just thinking . I

9:36

didn't even have music on . So I think in a way

9:39

, we need to learn how to just take

9:41

a step back , listen , think . You

9:44

know , I try to go to go for a walk most days

9:46

and it's really easy to take

9:48

headphones with you and listen to a podcast or listen

9:50

to an audio book or listen to something , listen

9:52

to the radio , even listen to music

9:55

, and it's like nature's

9:57

got a soundtrack . Could

9:59

try that . The birds are there , there's

10:02

the sound of wind rustling . So

10:04

I think in a way , we're so

10:07

overly cranked for listening

10:09

but also speaking that

10:11

when we're in a one-on-one situation with someone

10:13

, suddenly you know we might

10:15

be channeling our inner Ben Shapiro or

10:18

whatever it is or whoever your

10:21

demagogue of choice . And

10:23

that's not great , is it ? Do

10:25

you find yourself trying to just listen to less

10:28

? A bit , barry .

10:29

I think that's a really good point . We're

10:31

very good , aren't we ? Just ingesting lots

10:33

of information , and I think , in the internet age

10:35

, with smartphones , of course , with constant notifications

10:38

we've been very much trained

10:40

to be like that , and I think you're

10:42

exactly right it doesn't really leave much

10:44

room for processing , sifting , evaluating

10:47

, meditating upon . I think

10:49

that's all . I think that's . That's absolutely

10:51

right .

10:54

Cobra and Carrie have

10:56

words .

11:05

It is interesting that , reading on

11:07

a little bit the metaphor

11:10

that James uses , he

11:12

says he looks at he's talking about

11:14

a man who's a hero but not a doer . He

11:17

says he looks at himself and goes away

11:19

and at once forgets what he was like . So

11:23

that's , that's a picture of somebody

11:25

who kind of gets information

11:27

about themselves but then immediately it's

11:30

kind of gone , it's not allowed

11:32

to really settle , and I think

11:34

that's exactly what you're

11:36

talking about really Pun intended

11:38

.

11:39

There is no period of reflection . Yes

11:42

, exactly right in this

11:44

metaphor , you're not looking in the mirror to

11:46

see if you look all right . You

11:49

don't look all right . That's a given

11:52

. And therefore , if you're reading

11:54

God's word and you're not

11:56

doing it , if you're not compelled to take action

11:59

, you're not looking , you're not

12:01

reading , you're not listening , you're not hearing

12:03

. I think that

12:05

might be the sense of that image

12:08

that's going on there . So in a way are

12:10

you know if , if we're actually

12:12

listening to it , it

12:14

should stir up in us thoughts

12:16

and ideas ? And

12:19

the yeah , the point

12:21

that I made in my talk was uh

12:24

, we're quick to listen and slow to

12:26

speak , and the reason I think James says that

12:28

is because , once you're speaking

12:31

, the listening is now over

12:33

and

12:35

you want to be very careful that you

12:37

haven't overlooked what they're actually

12:39

saying or even worked

12:42

out why they're saying what they're saying and that

12:44

what they're saying isn't actually quite

12:46

what they mean . There's

12:48

some subtext going on here .

12:50

I remember reading a biography of Stanley Kubrick

12:52

years and years ago , and the quote that I remember

12:54

underlining a zillion times , as

12:57

which he just said in passing he said there's

13:00

a way . Kubrick said there's a way

13:02

of talking about problems which

13:04

makes you feel like you've solved them . And

13:07

I think there's something of that in this whole

13:09

question of listening . We can , we

13:12

can listen to God's

13:14

word and be so full of the data

13:16

that we think

13:18

we are going great

13:20

guns in the Christian life , but

13:23

we haven't actually acted on it

13:25

and therefore our maturity is not there . And

13:28

I hate to draw your attention to this , but

13:30

in the Pilgrims progress James , there's

13:32

a character called Trigger warning . Yeah

13:34

, trigger warning . There's

13:36

a character called talkative . See if you can have

13:38

a guess of what he's like . Anyway

13:41

, talkative is

13:43

somebody who knows all

13:45

of the theology , like he's a terrific

13:47

evangelist . He understands the need for the new

13:49

birth , he understands the gospel , the need

13:51

for repentance , you name it , but

13:54

he hasn't

13:56

acted on it . And so the really scary

13:59

thing about that character , talkative , of course , is that

14:01

he talks a really good fight , he's convinced

14:03

of his own spiritual security

14:05

, but the

14:07

text makes it very clear that he is heading

14:11

on the path to damnation . So

14:13

I think that might be a particular danger

14:16

actually for reformed guys and girls

14:18

and let's face it , I really mean guys here

14:20

because we love to accumulate information that

14:23

we really are so big on the theology

14:25

. Theologies are really important , caviar , but

14:28

we spend so much time talking about it and batting

14:30

it around and stroking our beards

14:32

that we don't actually do it . So

14:35

there's a way of

14:37

talking about theology which

14:40

is not actually making any

14:42

difference to us at all . Do you think that's fair ?

14:45

Oh , totally yeah . And

14:47

we've all read Bible

14:49

commentaries by non-Christians

14:51

which

14:54

don't seem to take the text seriously

14:56

at all . It just seems to be commentary . It just

14:58

seems to be literally commentary . There's

15:01

nothing . And good commentaries do give you the comment

15:03

and that's fine . But actually a really good Christian

15:06

commentary does really make your heart sing

15:08

and does make you want to change

15:10

something in your life and

15:13

that's really important . I mean , it

15:15

is hard , isn't it ? Especially if you're called to a

15:18

theological ministry where you do

15:20

need to deep dive and do this

15:22

stuff . But actually and I

15:24

think that maybe is also where those

15:27

warning signs for going back to that

15:29

Ravi Zacharias incident that

15:32

someone who was talking , talking

15:34

, talking , talking on a stage , talking

15:36

, talking , talking he wasn't actually

15:38

sitting under the preaching

15:40

of the word in a church that

15:42

was then challenging him on the doing .

15:45

And once we found out what he was doing

15:47

it wasn't pretty . Can't

15:58

you make them understand ?

16:00

They wouldn't listen to me , they're pretty mad .

16:03

Then I'll talk to them myself .

16:05

You also drew attention to when we were

16:07

talking about this before , and I think this is

16:10

obviously a connection here . Jesus is parable

16:12

of the soil sometimes , but

16:15

it's really about the soils , isn't it ? Rather than the sower in

16:18

Mark , chapter four . What do you

16:20

think ?

16:22

I don't know . I've just read a really good

16:24

commentary on this . I'm marching my

16:26

way slowly through Mark's Gospel

16:28

with the . Pillar New Testament commentary on it . It's

16:31

really helpful , by a guy called Edwards , I think

16:33

, and what

16:36

struck me the first time on this and we'll get

16:38

onto the listening in a moment . What's

16:41

surprising that you sort of

16:44

don't even notice is why is

16:46

the farmer scattering seeds on the path

16:48

and stony ground and among

16:51

the thorns ? What's he doing

16:53

? Why is he doing that ? You don't have enough seeds to

16:55

do that . This

16:57

is a profligate sower

17:00

of seeds .

17:02

Right .

17:03

And what I mean by that is in

17:06

the first century AD . You

17:09

need to sow a field .

17:09

You had piles through that .

17:10

Yeah , you're keeping back some crop from the

17:12

last year and then you're sowing it . So

17:16

this commentary makes the argument partly

17:18

that the first time it's said

17:20

before the parable is then explained

17:22

, because it almost seems to shift slightly

17:25

between the telling and the explanation as well

17:27

. But the profligacy of the farmer

17:29

sowing the seed is almost like Jesus

17:31

just doing all this

17:33

stuff in his earthly ministry . He's

17:36

healing the sick , he's driving out demons

17:38

quite a lot and

17:40

he's teaching and people aren't really

17:42

getting it and it looks like he's kind of wasting

17:44

his time . What are you doing ? So

17:46

I think there's a sense in which the

17:48

sower is slightly more significant

17:51

than I had previously thought

17:54

, and I thought that was

17:56

quite an interesting observation which I throw

17:59

in as a bit of a sidebar have you

18:01

noticed that before .

18:02

Yeah , well , I do think there's an obvious parallel

18:04

there isn't there to the nature of Christ's ministry

18:07

, that the Gospels constantly draw

18:09

attention to his

18:11

audiences and how mixed they are , you

18:14

know , when there's a transition between talking to the

18:16

crowd at large and

18:19

talking to the disciples . So there's

18:21

an obvious parallel there isn't there between the

18:23

sowing of the seed just everywhere . In a profligate

18:25

way , he's speaking to those who

18:28

presumably he knows will come to him

18:30

, but he's also speaking to those , inevitably

18:32

because they're all mixed together in the same crowd , who

18:35

will not . And

18:38

the parable itself is , obviously , when

18:41

he's explaining it to the disciples , he specifically

18:44

draws attention to the fact that he's

18:46

speaking in parables , so that we'll

18:48

get into this . I'm sure that they may indeed

18:50

see but not perceive , and may indeed

18:52

hear but not understand , lest they should turn and be forgiven

18:55

. So there's an awareness that there

18:57

will be people who listen , who don't

18:59

actually hear , and

19:01

act on it .

19:04

And I think that's quite a common theme

19:06

in Mark . I'm learning and you would know you've written a Christian

19:08

Explore course based on Mark but

19:10

the

19:12

crowd is gathering in that

19:15

first half of Mark in particular . But the

19:17

crowd don't seem to be . They're

19:19

kind of more gawping and

19:21

they're following , but they're not really listening

19:24

. And as Jesus

19:26

gathers his disciples who

19:28

are a very , very unlikely bunch , if

19:31

we're honest mostly Galilean

19:33

fishermen they're not

19:35

the dream team if you were picking teams , but

19:42

he works with them in a particular way , and

19:45

so it sounds like it's not really fair

19:47

that Jesus is telling

19:50

these people what it really means , and all the bozos out

19:52

there aren't really listening . But

19:55

there's something about listening

19:57

, isn't it ? And so that whole section ends after

20:00

the light on a lampstand . Stuff . Mark

20:03

24 , Mark 4, . Consider carefully

20:05

what you hear . He

20:07

continued with the measure you use

20:09

. It will be measured to you , and

20:12

even more . Whoever has

20:15

will be given more , and

20:17

whoever does not have , even

20:19

what they have will be taken from

20:21

them . And again , we find that

20:23

so troubling and difficult

20:26

. We get that in a parable , in one of the Gospels too

20:28

, doesn't it ? Take his talent

20:30

and give it to the one who has five . What

20:33

, what are you doing

20:35

? That's not

20:37

very Christian , but what that parable

20:39

is , I guess , showing as well , is that this

20:41

person doesn't know , isn't

20:44

interested in handling what

20:46

he has , and some of that

20:48

is the listening to

20:50

Jesus and making the most of

20:52

it , leaning into it , puzzling on it

20:54

, thinking about it and then going back for

20:57

more . I think .

20:59

Yeah , I think that's exactly it . I think the reason why

21:02

Jesus teaches in parables is because

21:04

he doesn't want people to

21:06

just come at it his teaching at a superficial

21:08

level . He doesn't want the

21:10

guy saying , come on , come on , just give me the bullet points , then

21:13

I can get on with my life . It's specifically

21:15

couched in such a way that it positively

21:17

, not only does it reward

21:20

deeper reflection these parables that were

21:22

still puzzling over 2,000 years later but

21:25

it positively demands it . And

21:28

when you think about the initial audience

21:30

, they're only hearing this once

21:32

. They don't have notes to refer to afterwards . So

21:35

Jesus' injunction to listen . I mean

21:37

you probably noticed this . It's

21:39

actually it bookends the parable . He

21:41

starts in verse 3 by saying listen

21:44

and then at the end , in

21:46

verse 9 , he says he who has

21:48

ears to hear , let him hear . So

21:50

again and again there's this stress of listen

21:52

. You have to really concentrate

21:54

here and go deep with it . You

21:56

cannot be on autopilot . You

21:59

have to give all your bandwidth to this in order

22:01

to really take from it

22:03

what I want you to take from it .

22:06

Boy , you guys are not sucking me into the story

22:08

at all . I'm just telling you for your own benefit

22:11

. I'm very aware that I'm watching

22:13

a play right now . Whilst we're on the subject of my

22:15

sub-stack , which I guess we kind of were

22:17

, I did have a bit of a rant

22:19

back in July last year , so if you look up JamesCarriesubstackcom

22:23

, you'll find my sub-stack . I'll

22:25

put a link in the notes . But I wrote an article

22:27

called the York Notification of

22:29

Stories .

22:30

Right . So York Notes , because

22:33

I'm a bit of an age Cliff Notes we have over here .

22:35

Cliff Notes .

22:35

So yeah , it's like , just give me the Cliff

22:37

Notes . It's like , well , that's not going to work

22:39

. And so there are these services

22:42

as well that read you the

22:44

headlines of these non-fiction books , in

22:46

particular Summarizers . What's that

22:48

one called ? There's you know , I think

22:50

even Cal Newport mentions them too . What's

22:53

it called oh ?

22:55

I know exactly what you're .

22:56

They're these sort of services that just say

22:58

, hey , we'll condense everything for you because

23:00

you're , like , really busy .

23:02

Yeah , don't waste time reading books . We'll

23:04

tell you what they say .

23:05

Yeah , but as someone who's written some

23:07

books , if someone just says , just give

23:09

me the headlines , it's like , well , no , I didn't just

23:11

give you the headlines , because if I could have just given you the headlines

23:14

, I would have given you the headlines . I

23:16

didn't write 55,000 words so I could

23:18

skin you for nine quid . That's

23:21

not how it works . And also , would

23:23

you like the Cliff Notes of Pride

23:25

and Prejudice ? Or would

23:27

you like to read Pride and Prejudice

23:29

? Yeah , this whole Hamlet

23:32

thing . Just give me the gist . Yeah

23:35

, because that will be the same .

23:37

Yeah , it's , the Woody Allen joke is near

23:39

about . I did a speed reading course . I

23:41

read War and Peace . It's

23:43

about Russia . It's

23:46

like , yeah , you could certainly

23:48

get the bones of it , but it isn't going to change you , it

23:51

isn't going to go inside you . And this is where

23:53

I think we segue

23:56

, if I may , to .

23:58

Just so I found the link before you segue . I wrote

24:00

a post called Down with Executive Summaries

24:02

and that was in March of

24:05

this year . Blinklist

24:08

and Headway were in my

24:10

target on that one . I just thought , because

24:12

at one point I'm the sort of person that would sign up for that

24:14

, because , as we sort of said , I'm

24:16

auditing information all the time . Just give me

24:18

the headlines , give me the headlines .

24:19

It's like Well

24:21

, I'm going to throw a little wrinkle in here and say that maybe

24:24

there are some books where actually it's entirely

24:26

appropriate to boil them down

24:28

, because the person who wrote it is simply in the business

24:30

of imparting information . They have no

24:33

styles to speak of , there is no deep

24:35

wisdom to speak of . It's

24:37

not a Christian parable

24:39

, it's a Whatever

24:41

it is . It's a management consultancy type

24:43

deal and a lot of those are , I think , pretty shallow

24:46

and you could probably just get the bones of it and be on

24:48

your way . But , as you say , if

24:50

we're talking about pride and prejudice , I don't

24:52

know . Yes , I think in the sense , sometimes

24:55

, even when it's incredibly shallow , just the fact

24:57

that it's taking you time to read

24:59

it is helpful , like

25:01

I get that it slows you down but also they

25:03

will have illustrations .

25:05

They will explain to you firstly

25:07

why you need to know this information

25:10

. Then they will give you the information

25:12

, they will illustrate the information and

25:15

then they will summarize it and maybe apply it . And

25:18

so you're just kind of missing out and , in a way , if

25:20

you want to get an executive summary of something and I've

25:22

read executive summaries of very

25:25

long Church of England reports that are 170

25:27

pages , and I'll just read the executive summary , that's only

25:29

33 pages or whatever

25:31

, and it means that I can now , if

25:34

I'm interested in a particular thing , I'll go and look for it

25:36

in the overall report

25:38

, but that's but

25:41

it is a bit of a both-and I

25:44

just think that's fair and

25:46

I think the segue

25:48

I was going to talk about here is it's

25:51

very interesting that God's maybe you guys

25:53

will get into this when you're doing the mouth in

25:56

your sermon series but

25:58

it's very interesting that the metaphor

26:00

that's being used for really

26:02

hearing God's

26:04

word so that you act on it is

26:08

eat it .

26:10

Eat God's word . So the

26:12

metaphor is God's word . Is honey

26:14

Sweeter than honey , than

26:16

honey from the honeycomb that swamps on 19

26:19

? How sweet are your words

26:21

? Words to my taste sweeter

26:24

than honey to my mouth . I II

26:26

, god's

26:28

word , is meant to be Internalized

26:31

. It's meant to become a part of you , like

26:34

food , so that it changes

26:36

you . You don't benefit

26:38

from food if all you do is look at

26:40

it , admire it , maybe just roll

26:42

it around on your tongue and then spit it out . Discussing

26:46

it is not enough . You have to

26:48

swallow it and that sort of takes

26:50

. The mastic Asian takes time . The

26:52

swallowing takes time . Yeah , like it

26:54

, you know it becoming a part of you . And that , I

26:56

think , is partly why Jesus instituted

26:59

the Lord supper as a sacrament . He

27:01

didn't just say remember that

27:03

this happened . Yeah , he's saying here

27:06

, here is food , here's a cup his

27:09

bread , you eat it , hmm

27:11

, and you take it in deep inside yourself

27:13

. What is that except a profound metaphor

27:16

about what Jesus wants us

27:18

to do with him , which is to To

27:21

believe in him in such a way that he

27:23

enters into us by his spirit

27:25

and changes us the way that food

27:28

changes us ? You know , there's a , there's something profound

27:30

that's happening there which I think makes bread

27:32

and wine , you know , particularly appropriate food

27:35

as appropriate as a metaphor .

27:37

Yeah , think , yeah , I think that's really helpful

27:39

. I think , therefore , if we're treating Scripture

27:42

as something to be decoded

27:45

and then mastered , and

27:48

then sort of your your

27:50

cliff noted as it , were Hurgitated . Yeah

27:52

, yeah then that really

27:54

isn't what it's for , and actually this is another

27:56

point I make is that

27:58

we should therefore listen to

28:00

God's word , and

28:03

the most normal way of

28:05

doing that , historically speaking over

28:07

the last 2000 years , is through

28:09

our ears . So affordable

28:11

, disposable Bibles are

28:15

Pretty recent , because , although

28:17

printing was invented in the 1500s , paper

28:19

was still quite expensive for quite a long

28:21

time , and even into the 1800s

28:24

you might have a family Bible which

28:26

probably cost several hundred pounds in

28:28

in that money that you would then pass

28:31

down through the generations and somebody

28:33

would read from it and you would listen

28:35

to it . So the art

28:37

, so having it on your phone and

28:39

, of course , in some cut , in some cultures , the

28:43

Bible is still being translated into People

28:46

with , into cultures that don't have it

28:48

in their original language . Yeah

28:50

, so we we really

28:52

mustn't take this for granted

28:55

, that we've got it written down . That's again

28:57

quite a new thing .

28:59

It can kind of make it seem less precious content

29:01

that the ubiquity of it . Yeah

29:03

, I think this is . I think this is one of the reasons why people

29:05

get obsessed with vinyl . Now there's no real

29:07

reason for using vinyl . I was

29:09

really Inconvenient to get

29:12

it get scratched and dusty . You got to pull it out the sleeve

29:14

, put it down , but the stylus on which is very finicky

29:17

. But whenever I hear people talking

29:19

about why they do this , why they're obsessed with vinyl

29:21

, it is the whole Experience

29:24

means that in doing this you're really focused

29:26

on the album as a whole . The journey is a whole from

29:28

start to finish , whereas in a digital Spotify

29:31

, apple Music world it's

29:33

kind of all about the singles and it's very

29:35

atomized and you

29:38

don't get that's . Not only do you not get the lovely

29:40

big artwork and the sleeve notes

29:42

and all the rest of it , but you just don't sit

29:44

there typically for 45 minutes and give

29:46

your attention to a single album . It's

29:49

like , just listen to , I'm gonna make my own mix

29:51

tape of stuff that I'm grabbing from all over the place . Yeah

29:53

, and it's quite . I can I

29:55

get why people like vinyl .

29:57

For that reason , yeah , yeah , I think

29:59

that's really interesting parallel as well , because

30:01

I I use music

30:03

when I'm working , but I'll listen to an Apple

30:05

Music playlist like

30:07

Beat Strummental , where

30:10

every track on it sounds relatively

30:13

similar to the one before . Yeah

30:16

, I've not heard of any of the artists and

30:18

I couldn't tell you what any of the songs are . The

30:20

artists all have odd names , the songs all

30:22

have fairly arbitrary names , and

30:25

so therefore I'm

30:27

not really listening to that music

30:29

. It's just something that's on

30:32

, and the worry is that we

30:34

, if we treat God's word like that oh

30:36

, I just like to have it on in the background . Yeah

30:39

, that's right .

30:40

It's like oh .

30:42

Pretty sure .

30:42

James didn't want that .

30:44

Yeah , yeah . So I

30:46

think what I'm hearing you say , james , it's

30:49

quite a good thing to say in conversation , isn't

30:51

? It very good , very good . Um , there's

30:53

listening and there's listening

30:55

. There's chess , there's

30:58

a game of chess Language

31:01

, and their speech and there's speech .

31:02

That's right ? Um , there's , there's chess

31:04

and there's a game of chess

31:06

.

31:10

There's a biblical sense of listen

31:12

and it actually the ESP is interesting . That

31:14

translates James chapter 1 , verse

31:17

19 Be quick to hear

31:19

rather than listen . And I think even

31:21

in English it slightly captures

31:23

the difference between listening to something

31:25

and really hearing something . The

31:28

listening is just okay , this is information going

31:30

in , but it's like it's just on in the background

31:32

and the hearing is alright

31:34

. I'm really taking this in and it's it's

31:37

changing me in some way and I'm now acting

31:40

on what I am hearing

31:42

, and I think that is a distinction

31:44

which Scripture makes again

31:47

and again , isn't it ? There's there's a difference

31:49

between listening and hearing

31:52

, just listening and and

31:54

doing .

31:55

You know yeah , I mean , for me it's slightly the

31:57

other way around . I think hearing something

31:59

is not listening , I think you're not listening to me

32:01

, as in you're hearing the words as I'm saying , but you're

32:03

not listening . Yeah , the words mean . So

32:05

I'm not convinced that one or other is necessarily

32:08

the granular version

32:10

of the general

32:12

version , but

32:15

I and that's what I'm hearing , I

32:17

don't know if that is that what you're not

32:19

saying , that add a sort of a Greek or Hebrew

32:21

level .

32:21

It necessarily means two things , I think .

32:23

But I do know there's a difference .

32:25

Yeah , and I think the way they've tried to translate

32:27

it , I don't know be interesting to see how most people

32:29

would Understand the word listen

32:31

and the word here . But you're right , listen . When

32:34

you're talking to children , you do say no , no , no , no , listen

32:36

, look at me , listen , listen , yeah , so

32:38

yeah , and they're sort of struggling and trying to get

32:41

over and reach the chocolate biscuit or one of that , and

32:43

they're just , they're not taking it in . Yeah

32:45

quite .

32:46

This puts me in mind of One

32:48

of the more positive experiences I've had at

32:51

the general synod of the Church of England During

32:54

these exercises where we were , where

32:56

we don't actually look at the Bible to understand

32:58

human sexuality Because it still says what

33:00

it's always says and it's it's pretty clear and

33:03

we can keep checking back to see if

33:05

it's changed . No , it's the same . Yeah

33:08

, but we can now try and pretend that it's not

33:10

clear . But one of the things that we did

33:12

do which I thought was really helpful is

33:14

we were in split up into groups

33:17

and then to smaller groups in a three and

33:19

you

33:22

the . The lesson was to say how you felt

33:24

about this exercise . There was an awful lot of how

33:26

do you feel about this , how are you feeling

33:28

about this ? Okay , how do you think that went

33:30

? Oh , oh , was that it ? We

33:33

didn't , oh , we didn't Talk

33:35

about it . We just talked about how worried we are

33:38

about talking about it and then reflected on how we

33:40

felt about it , but so

33:42

in a way that the actual exercise itself was

33:44

was not helpful generally . But there's one

33:46

thing where they said what you have to do

33:48

is you have to listen to

33:51

this person , say how

33:53

they feel about it and then

33:55

summarize it back to them to

33:58

show that they are happy With

34:00

your , that you've understood what

34:02

they're saying . It's I did . It's

34:04

called active listening or something like that . So I

34:06

would you know . So I would say it's very frustrating

34:09

to me that we're trying to talk

34:11

about human sexuality when the Bible

34:14

to me seems extremely clear and Blah

34:16

, blah , blah , blah and someone say James is

34:19

Is very sure

34:21

that the Bible is very clear on this

34:23

and so they , whether they agree with me or not , they're

34:25

just trying to Highly . And

34:27

I would say to somebody this person doesn't understand

34:30

why we're having

34:32

this discussion when , for her , if the church teaches

34:34

this , then this is something that the church

34:36

should believe and that the laity are

34:38

not really meant to be questioning . I was , I

34:41

became quite good friends with that , with a fairly high

34:43

Angler Catholic at the time , and actually she

34:45

was , you know , delightful and we had an awful lot in

34:47

common . But it

34:49

was a really interesting exercise to do that and it's

34:51

it's not just steel manning , which I

34:53

think is another good habit that people now say

34:56

about giving the best version of an opponent's

34:58

case . But just to say , have I

35:00

understood you correctly ? Can I just

35:02

summarize back to you what

35:05

you've said to me just to make sure that I've

35:07

heard it before I respond to it

35:09

now , that takes time and people don't want to do

35:11

it , and also it might be more challenging

35:13

to do that because you then have to understand

35:15

, yeah , what they're saying . But

35:18

can you ? Have you ever had to do that kind of thing ?

35:20

Yeah , and I think it's really good practice

35:22

. I mean , given the noetic effects of

35:24

sin , that it sin effects not

35:26

only the way we no etic no

35:29

etic you want .

35:30

For me , that is the word of the podcast .

35:32

No way we go no etic , which , if I'm on

35:34

, if I'm understanding that right , means

35:36

you know that sin affects every part

35:38

of us , including the way that we kind of intellectually

35:40

process things with our minds . So

35:43

, yes , the way that we listen

35:45

is affected by sin , the way that we

35:47

then articulate ourselves affected by sin . So I think

35:49

anything we can put in

35:52

there to try and alleviate

35:55

or minimize the effects of sin in communication

35:57

I think it's a great idea and

35:59

it's just good to know you've been heard , isn't it ? And just , there's

36:01

nothing worse than wasting two hours Debating with

36:03

someone . You're both talking past each other . It's

36:06

just it's just doesn't serve anybody . So

36:09

yeah , I think that is . I think that is a good thing

36:11

to do .

36:14

Something just came to mind . It's something that I'm talking

36:17

to some guys about tonight

36:19

and , and you

36:22

know , when you you look into a passage

36:24

and again , just backing up

36:26

once more , sometimes we get we get angry

36:29

with God that the Bible is not clear , or

36:31

we get angry with God because of what he's like

36:33

, because we haven't actually read what it says

36:35

, we haven't actually listened to what he is

36:37

like , and so we know what on earth am I

36:39

supposed to do ? And so I

36:42

had that very briefly , with Jesus's

36:44

arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane in Mark

36:46

14 and and so

36:48

. I've . I've got a little idea

36:50

for a , for a book or something possibly

36:53

called running away naked , based

36:55

on , potentially , mark , who

36:57

is the Person following Jesus

37:00

who is grabbed by his linen

37:02

as Jesus is arrested and

37:04

he leaves the linen behind and runs away naked

37:07

, and it's a wonderful sort

37:09

of illustration of cowardness

37:12

and all of the

37:14

worst things that I think particularly men are

37:16

frightened of . That . That's going

37:18

to be them , and

37:20

the flip side of that is the disciple who

37:22

we later learn is Peter in the other Gospels , but Mark

37:24

doesn't name him as the one who

37:26

you know right , yanks out a

37:28

sword and slices off a servant's

37:31

ear . And it

37:33

was only when I was talking to my kids about it this morning . I

37:36

I said Well

37:38

, what was he supposed to do ? So

37:41

the guy with the sword is thinking well , I'm not having

37:43

this , he's got a sword , he's going to use it . You're

37:45

not arresting Jesus . That's wrong . And

37:48

just thinking . And again , as I often

37:50

say , what was Adam supposed to do in

37:53

the Garden of Eden With

37:55

the when the snake comes ? But

37:57

on this particular instance I was thinking I Don't

38:01

know , how am I supposed to know ? I don't know

38:03

. And then I realized what he probably

38:05

should have done ? He

38:07

should have listened to Jesus .

38:09

Hmm .

38:10

He should have said what do you

38:12

want me to do , rather

38:15

than I'm going to almost kill

38:17

someone . You know , if you cut off someone's ear

38:19

, you're going for the head . I mean , that's that's a kill

38:21

shot , isn't it ?

38:22

That's not , I know I should very carefully

38:24

Like one of the three musketeers

38:27

you know , sort of whisk off

38:29

their ear and threaten See like

38:31

it's the princess bride .

38:32

No , I'll start with your ears and I'll tell you why

38:34

. You know , whatever it is .

38:36

Do you think that's significant ? It's just funny . Interesting

38:38

all this chat about listening and hearing . Yeah

38:40

he takes off an ear . I mean , I just wonder

38:42

whether we're talking about how Peter should have reacted

38:44

. But how should the high priest servant have

38:47

reacted ? Well , should have listened to Jesus

38:49

, shouldn't he ? And as a result

38:51

of not listening Jesus , well , sorry , we're even

38:53

. That's going to be taken from you .

38:55

Yeah , off comes his ear , you know off comes an ear

38:57

, although Jesus in John puts it

38:59

back . Yes yes

39:01

, yes , but yeah , no , that's interesting , isn't it

39:03

? Of all the , of all the things , it's , it's an

39:05

ear .

39:06

Yeah , he's that is sliced off and

39:08

you could .

39:08

But you can imagine it sort of sort of sitting there

39:11

on the ground and then he gets another one . Just

39:13

imagine looking at your discarded

39:16

ear but knowing that you've got another

39:18

one , and what are you gonna do ? You know that's something for

39:20

the kids , isn't it ?

39:23

That's right .

39:24

That's why God gave you two .

39:26

Yes exactly in

39:28

case , in case Peter cuts one off

39:30

. Yeah , it's one of those ones where you

39:32

think , well , what were the disciples meant

39:34

to do ? Yeah , and actually Ask

39:37

Jesus , listen to the answer

39:39

and then do it , because

39:41

he's got this , and that is something

39:44

that we're not prepared to do , and so I think sometimes

39:46

we get frustrated with the Bible because

39:48

it doesn't say what we would like it to

39:50

say , yeah , or it doesn't say in a

39:52

way that we would like it to say it , or

39:54

why isn't it clearer ? Or why

39:57

is this genealogy here ? Why

39:59

is this interminable list of things ? Why

40:01

is the second half of Joshua so incredibly

40:03

boring ? And , before you know it , we're

40:05

now angry with God . We're

40:07

slow to listen to his word , we're

40:10

quick to speak back to him

40:12

, and now we're angry , and I

40:15

would recommend that you don't get angry with God

40:17

. I don't think that's a good . I

40:20

don't think that's a good look , and it's interesting . No good can

40:22

come from that yeah and it's and I love

40:24

how James says essentially Not

40:26

essentially he does say Because

40:29

human anger does not produce the righteousness

40:31

that God desires . Hmm and

40:34

I know our mutual friends Bran Hansen . He

40:36

essentially says yeah , this whole righteous

40:39

anger , Hmm

40:41

, you keep using that word .

40:43

I don't think it's as righteous as you think it is . Yeah

40:46

.

40:47

He didn't follow . Inconceivable

40:49

. You keep using the word

40:51

. I don't think it means what you think

40:54

it means .

40:55

And the other application that

40:57

occurred to me as you were speaking is that Peter

41:00

says doesn't he have Paul's teaching ? He

41:02

does say some things that are hard to understand . Hmm

41:04

, okay , why

41:07

Supposed to be God's word ? Why

41:10

doesn't God just tell people what he wants

41:12

them to do in , you know

41:14

, words of one syllable ? So

41:16

we all get it . Why the difficult

41:18

stuff ? And I think the answer

41:21

to that is that

41:23

we're meant to wrestle with it . And

41:26

again we're back to the parables thing . God

41:29

communicates to us in such a

41:31

way that we can't go great , thanks

41:33

for the propositions . I'll run off . I'll just run with that

41:35

. I don't really need to think about this . He

41:38

deliberately writes in such

41:40

a way that we have to make

41:42

like Jacob and wrestle with

41:44

it . And in wrestling

41:47

with it , yes , it's going to put our hip

41:49

out of joint , but that's the point . It's

41:52

been written like that so that it slows

41:55

us down in our natural sin

41:57

and our worldliness , so

41:59

that we have to internalize it , so that we

42:01

have to eat it slowly , because

42:04

that's the only way it's going to change

42:06

us . So I think the , the elogist talk about

42:08

the perspicacity of scripture . That it's , you

42:10

know , it's meant to be easy to understand . Well

42:12

, scripture itself does say that bits of it are

42:15

hard to understand , and that is by

42:17

design .

42:18

Yeah , it's a feature , it's

42:20

not a bug .

42:21

Yeah .

42:22

Yeah , I'll put it

42:24

up for the Patreons , because

42:26

I wrote something at the Keswick Convention

42:28

which is about people

42:32

in parables being relatively unhappy with

42:34

how they've been treated , and

42:37

but the overall point of that

42:39

, which people found intently , hopefully , amusing

42:42

, was that the

42:44

fact that these parables are strange

42:47

and troubling and difficult to understand means

42:50

that we're just going to keep coming back to them time after

42:52

time and that they are just

42:54

like the good wine is the stuff that

42:56

actually doesn't taste , maybe

42:58

so good the first time you have it , or once

43:00

you develop a taste for something , then suddenly there

43:03

are extra things , and that's the case whether it's

43:05

due with a single malt whiskey , or

43:07

whether you're into all

43:09

different types of food or cured meats

43:11

, or it's an acquired

43:14

taste . It's an acquired taste and

43:18

I think that's a good thing , and there's a perfectly

43:21

good moment to have a glug

43:23

of something that you like and it tastes good straight away

43:25

. But actually you get bored of that , and

43:28

so I think again . Maybe

43:31

scripture isn't as perspicacious

43:34

as it could be . Maybe that's another

43:36

word of the podcast . It's more like

43:39

perspex than glass

43:41

, because it's something that

43:43

you are pro

43:45

, that you have been made to live

43:48

with for your entire life . So

43:51

we've not been given 60 pages

43:53

that you've pretty much nailed by

43:55

your mid 20s or into your 30s

43:58

. This is a long and

44:00

complicated library

44:02

of books , and the more I read

44:04

and think , the more I

44:06

think oh , this connects to that or does it

44:08

, I don't know . It's sort of connects in a way

44:10

and it sort of doesn't . As I was reading

44:12

the Gethsemane moment

44:14

, I was thinking , oh , it feels

44:17

like the Garden of Eden here

44:19

because there's a temptation

44:21

that Jesus is the second Adam , and he could

44:24

use his power to defeat these

44:26

people , but he doesn't . There's a kiss

44:28

. There's nakedness at

44:30

the end . I couldn't

44:32

put my finger on

44:34

exactly .

44:35

Well , jesus obeys the Father where Adam

44:38

does not obey the Father . Yeah , yeah

44:40

.

44:41

There's no one slam dunk bit of

44:43

. Oh , this is obviously that which

44:45

you do get in other passages where it's like , well , okay

44:47

. This is one the other day about reading

44:50

in Esther , where it just

44:52

is exactly like the death of John the Baptist , where

44:54

Herod says I will give you anything

44:56

up to half of my kingdom , and it's like , oh , okay

44:59

. So sometimes you do get those

45:01

big clanging things , although

45:03

most of these we don't know because we

45:05

don't know our Bibles , because we don't read

45:08

them and we don't listen to them . And

45:10

maybe that's one last thing

45:12

to think about is the

45:15

Bible is available in audio . It's

45:18

free on the ESV app , read

45:20

by two different people

45:22

a North American man and

45:24

a Northern Irish woman who I think is

45:26

Christine Getty , and

45:30

there's other , like other Bible

45:32

apps . You can get John Sushé reading

45:34

it , although I think we all have

45:36

read it like Poirot ? Why

45:40

? Why don't we listen to the Bible

45:42

?

45:43

Well , if you get speechify which I have

45:45

you can have the whole Bible read to you

45:47

in the voice of Snoop Dogg

45:50

. So there's really no excuse

45:52

, is there no excuse

45:55

?

45:55

I would like it read in the voice of Rowan Atkinson

45:57

, and then I'd remember . I've often jokes

45:59

in the past .

46:01

If you get him to say Zerubbable , then

46:03

I'm all in and

46:05

now I could , and I get Rowan Atkinson because

46:08

of AI .

46:09

Oh wow , this is a whole new . This is a whole

46:11

new era in my life , potentially .

46:13

Yeah , wasn't it Whitfield

46:15

who was said , I think , by

46:17

Benjamin Franklin , to

46:20

be able to pronounce a

46:22

particular word in such a way that

46:24

Benjamin Franklin said he would just

46:26

give everything to be able to

46:29

speak , as he did , just said a single

46:31

word . It was something like Zerubbable . One of our

46:33

listeners will remind me of what it is .

46:35

Or Zerubbable or something Exactly

46:37

it's something like that . Yeah , but

46:40

why don't we want to do it ? Why , well

46:42

?

46:42

I think it's a bit .

46:43

We love the word and audio junkies like me and

46:46

frankly , probably half a listeners of this podcast

46:48

, if not most of them . Yeah , do

46:50

you want to listen to actual gods inspired

46:53

and inerrant word read ? Really well

46:55

, no , thanks , I'll

46:58

listen to some demagogue . Make

47:00

me feel good about why

47:02

I don't like certain groups of people .

47:04

Yeah , I think the answer

47:06

is in your question there , isn't it James ?

47:08

We are awful people , that's why

47:11

?

47:11

Well no , it just it makes me feel

47:13

good . I mean that's the thing , isn't it ? And I

47:15

think the problem . I mean it's like we

47:17

don't really want to go to the gym because it's

47:19

hard work . I think the Bible's a bit like

47:21

that .

47:22

And we don't want to look in the mirror , yeah

47:24

.

47:26

At the very least , like

47:28

I'll go to the gym

47:30

and maybe I'll sort of hang around a bit

47:33

and go to the calf or whatever . But actually

47:35

drawing a sweat , you

47:37

know , heaven forbid , but that .

47:39

I can work up a sweat in the sauna , so I'll

47:41

do that . I'll love it .

47:43

Go in the plunge pool or whatever , bubble around a bit . But

47:45

that's the thing , isn't it ? I think God's word has

47:47

been written to make us sweat in lots of

47:49

different ways . These are the heavy

47:51

weights we have to lift if we want

47:54

our muscles to get bigger , but most of

47:56

us are just like people who want to get fit

47:58

without going to the gym . Yeah , it's

48:00

just no good .

48:01

Yeah , yeah , yeah .

48:03

It's Mesopotamia , it's Mesopotamia

48:05

, that's the word , oh .

48:05

OK , oh interesting .

48:06

Yeah , looking for a refreshing

48:09

summer cocktail , why

48:11

not try a Cooper and Carey ? Simply

48:15

mix one ounce of middle-aged

48:17

regret , a squeeze of barely-contained

48:20

cynicism and a shot of predestination

48:22

. But please enjoy

48:25

responsibly .

48:29

This reminded me of the CS Lewis thing about

48:31

nobody really wants to read Plato . They just want

48:34

to read what people have said about Plato . And

48:37

he says it's just as easy to read Plato . You've

48:39

already got Plato , just do the Plato . Yeah

48:42

, and it's true , isn't it you ?

48:44

already have Plato .

48:46

Come on , just do it . It was

48:48

said that George Whitfield could utter the word

48:50

Mesopotamia . It says here , so

48:52

that the entire crowd wept . That

48:55

would be good , wouldn't it ? Does that sound credible ? I

48:58

suppose it is . If the Holy Spirit's involved , let's

49:00

face it .

49:01

You would have to be to make people weep at the word

49:03

Mesopotamia . What a bizarre word to

49:05

use .

49:08

Can you think of a single word that you would say ? If you wanted

49:10

to make an entire crowd weep ? What

49:13

would the word be ? Taco

49:16

Bell is two words . That's not .

49:19

Good evening . Oh no , not him yeah

49:22

that's right , it's me . It's

49:24

me . Yeah , that's right Welcome

49:27

.

49:28

Folks , we're going to natter a bit more

49:31

for the benefit of our esteemed Patreon

49:34

supporters and Cooper and Kerry Plus listeners

49:36

. If you want to get in on that and come

49:38

on , why wouldn't you hit

49:41

the subscribe button in Apple Podcasts

49:43

or go to Cooper

49:46

and Kerry Patreon ? We'll put a link in the show notes and

49:49

for a really small and reasonable

49:51

fee you can enjoy that and our Discord

49:53

server and extended episodes and advanced

49:55

episodes and all sorts of good stuff .

49:58

And my extra bonus content

50:00

of that parable that I wrote oh yeah , of

50:02

that thing that I wrote about parables which is not available

50:04

anywhere else and I'm not going to sub-stack

50:06

it . So there it is .

50:08

There's a CNC exclusive , so get on that If

50:11

you just want to . You

50:13

don't want to mess around with all of that , but you do want

50:15

to berate us soundly . You

50:17

can email us kuperankerryatgmailcom

50:20

. We'd be happy to read . We do always read

50:22

it . We don't always get to answering

50:24

, do we James , but we certainly do read . So

50:27

thank you if you do do that .

50:28

Yes , we don't get so many emails that

50:30

we just can't possibly read all of them , but

50:33

we don't answer all of them , but we do answer

50:35

most of them .

50:36

Yes , one way or the other .

50:38

And people give us good suggestions for podcast

50:40

episode topics and stuff as well , and

50:42

we quite often do them or take them up . Or people

50:45

say , oh , you should talk to this person , they've

50:47

got a book out about this or that . So we're totally open

50:49

to suggestions as about

50:51

what we should talk about and what you

50:54

will , in turn , listen to

50:56

.

50:57

So there we go .

50:58

He wraps it all up neatly in a bow .

51:00

Look at that glorious . We actually managed to

51:02

. Rather than crashing into the runway , we actually

51:04

sort of got the landing gear down and actually sort

51:06

of there was a nice little graze across the tarmac

51:08

there . Nice , thanks

51:11

everyone for listening and , god willing , we'll

51:13

be back with you in a couple of

51:15

weeks , or just one week , if indeed you

51:18

are one of our esteemed supporters . Love

51:20

you , bye .

51:22

It just asking me okay .