0:01

Hello and welcome , Mrs . Couples Counseling for

0:03

Parents . They show about couple

0:05

relationships , how they work , why

0:07

they don't , what you can do to fix

0:09

what's broken . Hiya parents , Our

0:12

Dad , Dr Steven Mitchell , and our

0:15

Mom , Erin Mitchell . Hello

0:18

and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents

0:20

. I'm Dr Steven Mitchell , I'm Erin Mitchell

0:22

and I wanted to talk about

0:24

a topic today that we've

0:27

talked about before , but it's been a little while and

0:30

I feel like I've been thinking about

0:32

it because I feel like

0:34

it's a topic that's come up

0:36

with some of the couples that we've

0:38

been talking to .

0:40

It is something that is always coming up .

0:42

Right . So

0:44

, and it's around this idea of in-laws

0:47

and boundaries , and

0:50

everyone just laid down and went to sleep

0:52

, right ? Now Quick nap Just Quick

0:54

15 . Okay

0:57

, or everyone's like energy

1:00

Super activated yeah everyone is just

1:02

like angry , cortisol filled the body , fuming

1:05

.

1:06

No one's actually sleeping at all . But

1:08

I think what ? I think

1:10

the reason to have this conversation

1:12

in a context like this , the reason we

1:14

have this conversation , the reason we encourage couples

1:16

to be actively talking about this , is so that it can

1:18

be a more neutral conversation , because

1:21

what yeah ?

1:22

Go ahead so your

1:24

blood doesn't boil , you don't

1:26

feel like you need to take a quick

1:28

15 . Quick 15 . Back

1:30

in 15 ? That's right .

1:32

Yes , because it doesn't have to be

1:35

a negative thing . Saying like

1:37

, hey , I'd like to talk about some boundaries for

1:39

this upcoming birthday party Doesn't

1:42

have to mean your partner

1:44

says that in all you hear is

1:46

your years or whatever of

1:49

it . I can't stand your parents or your

1:52

brother's coming . He's

1:54

the worst . And it's like you

1:56

know really personal , deep accusatory

1:59

stuff . And that's

2:01

what happens . It's like , oh great

2:03

, what do you need ? It

2:05

gets contentious and

2:07

so fast .

2:10

Yeah , and I think one of the things to note like

2:12

we're not talking here

2:14

like terrible

2:17

relationships . I

2:19

think we're simply talking like Now

2:21

couple .

2:22

You mean like a terrible relationship with faith , with in-laws

2:24

.

2:24

Yeah , and we're kind of saying in-laws , but you just

2:27

use the example of , like you know , your brother's

2:29

coming into town , you know , like I

2:31

think it can be extended to family , just in

2:33

general , and I think that

2:35

why this is such an important

2:37

conversation is that To be clear

2:39

, a brother is

2:41

an in-law . They

2:44

are .

2:46

A brother in-law , a sister in-law .

2:48

That's so true , sweet .

2:52

This is another one of those moments where I wish we had

2:55

sound effects , where it's like you're

2:58

. No .

3:00

I think , no , I

3:02

think I . You know what I think of in-laws

3:04

. I think of like Parents . Yeah

3:07

, mother-in-law father-in-law , but you're right , brother-in-law

3:09

, sister-in-law , you

3:11

know what ?

3:12

It's been a long day Feeling a little tired

3:14

, thank you , but we do also

3:16

extend to this family , because you don't really say that's

3:18

my uncle-in-law yeah , right , right , right , no

3:20

, you're right , you're right . Well , I know .

3:22

It's totally . I hope that entertained

3:25

everyone . I hope everyone got

3:27

a good laugh about that

3:30

little oversight in my brain . Go

3:33

ahead , yeah . So I

3:35

think what I was saying is we're not necessarily

3:38

talking about negative

3:40

, like unhealthy relationships , like

3:42

I don't even like my extended family , I

3:44

mean , we're talking like in

3:46

normal relationship

3:49

healthy like in normal , like healthy relationship

3:52

, like two partners come

3:54

into a relationship and they bring

3:56

their families and what that

3:58

means is we all

4:00

have to relate to one another's

4:02

family and that

4:05

requires skills

4:07

, because that's not always the easiest

4:10

thing .

4:11

It does require some skill . I think it also

4:13

just requires some communication because

4:15

, I think , to your point . In the best

4:17

of circumstances , there's still some communication

4:20

that has to go into interacting

4:23

with each other's family , because

4:25

they're new . It's a new relationship

4:27

, no matter how long you all have been around . There's a learning

4:29

curve and there's a oh , this is how

4:32

your family does birthdays Right right . All

4:34

right , Like that's not how we did birthdays

4:36

.

4:36

Yeah .

4:37

And just coming to understand that , and that happens

4:39

through communication , and

4:42

that doesn't always go well , because

4:44

it can feel like I

4:46

want to put up boundaries , which means I want your family

4:48

to stay away , which is not what that's supposed

4:51

to mean . It's trying to figure out

4:53

the best way that

4:55

we can interact with this extended

4:57

family in a way that feels safe

5:00

and authentic to us .

5:02

Yes .

5:02

It's sort of that like who's the we here ? How do we

5:04

want to approach this ? How are we planning to go into

5:06

this ?

5:08

Yeah , and so I think birthdays are

5:10

a great example .

5:10

I don't know why I kept saying that .

5:13

Well , I mean , because it's just

5:15

the , it's the little kind of

5:17

normal although

5:20

birthdays not every day every day kind of interactions

5:22

Like . So you know you're

5:25

. You're sitting there getting ready to play in

5:27

your three-year-old's birthday party . Your

5:30

partner's mother-in-law is

5:33

super excited , just

5:35

pumped , and they have some

5:37

ideas about how they

5:39

want to celebrate their grandkids

5:41

three-year-old birthday party .

5:44

And they think you're calling on real life experience

5:46

right now . I

5:49

don't .

5:50

Maybe you think so .

5:51

Yeah , this feels like us

5:54

.

5:55

So if we say Aaron's mom

5:58

has some real clear ideas

6:01

about how she wants to celebrate our three-year-old's

6:03

birthday party , and

6:05

that

6:07

can feel to Steven like

6:09

she's encroaching on how we

6:12

want to celebrate Birthday

6:15

, said birthday .

6:16

And here is the perfect example . So

6:18

already the way Steven said that I'm like my

6:20

mom's , not trying to control the party

6:22

. You're just feeling like

6:25

my mom wants to be involved and that

6:27

makes you feel controlled .

6:29

She's just like what's the ?

6:30

plan that's not her controlling . You

6:32

just are come from a family who

6:34

didn't celebrate with extended family .

6:36

Right , and it's just like I just want us

6:38

to have our own thing and not do exactly

6:41

what your family would

6:43

do .

6:44

My family's not trying to push anything on you . They're

6:46

just trying to say , can we come ? Yeah

6:49

, and you're saying

6:51

, oh , and that is how it could get sideways

6:54

fast .

6:54

Yeah , yeah , around something that's supposed to

6:56

be really fun , which is your kid's

6:59

birthday , and

7:01

some really normal desires from

7:03

both people . It makes a lot of sense for your

7:06

mom to want to celebrate her grand

7:08

kid and have a lot of fun and enjoy

7:10

that , and it would make

7:12

sense for us

7:15

to want to do that in a way that fits

7:17

sort of our family .

7:20

And I think that's the key . So us

7:22

like who's the ? We hear us . Not

7:24

Steven versus me and my family

7:27

, not me and my family versus Steven . But

7:29

like so how do we want it to look ? I

7:31

really want my family to be involved .

7:33

That was a big part of it Always had a family

7:35

birthday party going up and you're like that's

7:38

weird we never did , but

7:40

so this is what we're talking about , because I

7:42

think that this is where this conversation can

7:44

go wrong .

7:47

The second time because we already had one time

7:49

this is another place

7:51

. The conversation couldn't go wrong .

7:53

Sure sure . What was the other time that we just , the

7:55

way you brought it up , like your mom is ?

7:56

trying to control and I'm like she's not trying to control

7:58

. She asked what time dinner is .

8:00

Okay , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . So now the

8:02

second time .

8:02

Thanks for paying attention , sorry , sorry

8:04

.

8:06

It's been a long day or something . I'm a little

8:08

.

8:08

I think you're getting sick .

8:09

You think so ? Yes , where I think that

8:12

this conversation can go wrong

8:14

. The second time is so

8:18

Aaron and I , we have had

8:20

different experiences around family birthdays

8:22

. So , for example , my

8:25

family the way they celebrated

8:27

birthdays was I

8:31

don't know what would you say we didn't really

8:33

celebrate birthdays or

8:36

it was much more an insular , like

8:39

our family kind

8:41

of thing . We didn't have people over

8:43

, we didn't have extended family over

8:45

.

8:46

We didn't live near family , which I think

8:48

impacts that .

8:48

Right , but I mean , we didn't

8:51

necessarily live near your family and people would fly in

8:53

for it , so

8:55

we didn't do that , we

8:58

just kept it

9:00

our family

9:03

. And there were some things I

9:05

actually liked about that . I'm a little bit more of an introverted

9:07

person , so I kind of like a little smaller group

9:09

anyway . And so

9:11

our birthdays that

9:14

was our birthday celebration and

9:16

that's kind of how I envisioned

9:19

birthday celebrations would be

9:21

in my family , because that's

9:24

what I knew .

9:26

Fair to say .

9:26

Yeah , I think you celebrated

9:28

birthdays in your family . Go

9:31

ahead , we've got 15 minutes for

9:33

you to describe it now .

9:35

If it won't take long . I don't think we had a friend party

9:37

and we had a family party , so we always

9:39

got to , I mean , I think , always , even like pretty

9:41

little kid we got to invite a few friends

9:43

to do something of our choosing . And

9:46

then my brother and I are born

9:48

two weeks apart , so usually we would have

9:50

those combined . So

9:53

, like with all the uncles , all

9:55

the cousins , we would have a dinner

9:57

and cake .

9:59

Right , and that is your expectation

10:01

about how we would celebrate

10:04

birthdays , and

10:06

by curiosity , like also your mom's expectation

10:09

, right , so from

10:11

your mom's kind

10:13

of perspective , so when are we having the family

10:15

party ? When are we having the friend party ? That

10:18

kind of thing .

10:19

And I think I can't tell if I'm just

10:21

trying to defend my mom or if I'm speaking largely

10:23

to like a healthy sort

10:26

of in-law extended family situation . My mom

10:28

, I feel like , tried to tread very

10:30

lightly around things like this . Hey

10:33

, what's the plan ? I

10:35

don't know , but if there is one

10:37

, I'd sure like to know so I could book a

10:39

ticket and play in for it , but

10:42

I think that was

10:45

sometimes due to unclear communication on our

10:47

part , both because we hadn't talked

10:50

about it yet . Like I don't know

10:52

, we haven't done that and I think that would really

10:54

frustrate you . Like that would

10:56

start to feel like we're supposed to have a plan and

10:58

we're supposed to know and we're supposed to be communicating and

11:00

we don't know . Like this is not a big deal .

11:02

And I think what also happened is it began to just feel

11:05

like a lot Like

11:07

to me . Am I sort of very simple

11:10

, this sort of mindset , like all of that

11:12

stuff ? It's like , do we really need

11:14

to do all that ? Like , isn't that

11:16

excessive ? And again

11:18

, I'm just speaking from my own

11:21

experience . But I think where

11:23

the conversation goes wrong is Again

11:25

, For the 18th

11:27

time . This

11:29

is where the conversation goes wrong . Is

11:31

we start interpreting these

11:36

conversations in light of , well

11:38

, my way of doing it is right

11:40

and your way

11:42

of doing it is excessive and

11:44

wrong or too much . Or

11:46

you might look at my way and be like well , your way

11:49

is like not fun and like

11:52

kind of boring and not

11:54

celebratory . Would that be fair

11:56

? Yes , yes . And

12:01

where couples get stuck

12:03

in conversations about

12:06

in-laws , about boundaries , is

12:08

, I think , in that place where they feel like

12:11

, look , the way I've done

12:13

it is the

12:15

right way , and

12:17

you begin to like try to pull your partner

12:20

over to doing things how

12:23

you want it . I definitely think that's a

12:25

component .

12:25

I do think there's another piece , and

12:28

I think to our experience

12:30

. I think that this applies to couples we worked

12:32

with as well , though I think you would have been happy

12:35

to have planned a party , but to feel

12:37

like it was because that's what my family

12:39

needed is gonna make you dig

12:41

your heels in hard and fast , like

12:43

you know I'm not having

12:46

some party so your family can feel

12:48

like they got what they needed

12:50

, so they were a part of our kid

12:52

Like this is our kid , I'm not doing this for them

12:54

, and so it was like a there could

12:56

be sometimes a no posture . Same for

12:59

me , like rather than choosing like well , what do we want

13:01

? Being like I'm not gonna not

13:03

celebrate , I'm not gonna , you know

13:05

, whatever . Be , I don't

13:07

really I don't .

13:09

This was never really a conversation , but like

13:11

I don't want to mutually

13:14

feel controlled , so I also

13:16

dig in hard about like no , we're doing it this

13:18

way , we're gonna , you know , have the

13:20

two parties the fear of control , because Stephen

13:22

and I have never intentionally tried to control the narrative

13:25

.

13:25

But that fear of like don't

13:28

make this go a certain way

13:31

, or I'm not gonna do that because that's

13:33

what's expected of me . We're both pretty contrary

13:35

people .

13:36

Yes . And very strong will you more

13:38

than me ?

13:39

And if we think or feel

13:41

or get that sense that

13:44

someone is has an expectation

13:46

of us A true contrarian . I

13:50

tried to keep going .

13:52

I like that one , though . A true contrarian

13:54

, that's a word right .

13:57

I don't , is your brother , really my brother-in-law

14:00

.

14:00

Yes , yes

14:03

, but

14:06

yes , I think there can be

14:08

that sort of Fear

14:10

of control .

14:10

Yes , that I don't want

14:13

to have to do what your

14:15

family expects of us . I want to get

14:17

to choose this . So you start saying no to things

14:19

or you start giving people labels

14:21

just out of that fear , and

14:24

I think it's really hard to make good us

14:26

, we decisions from a place of

14:28

fear . So , like , what are we actually talking

14:30

about here ? What we're talking about is how do we want to celebrate

14:33

our three ? How ?

14:34

old did you say you were Our three-year-old , our three-year-old's birth , our

14:36

kids , not three . This was a long time

14:38

ago .

14:39

You just made this child up . I feel

14:41

that . But I think to

14:43

sort of come back down and then how should we communicate

14:46

that to our families ? Do we want- .

14:48

Yes , I like that . I like that . There's

14:51

that idea of how can we join

14:54

our mutual experiences to

14:56

create something that we want as

14:58

a family , and then how

15:00

can we communicate that to our

15:03

families as a unit

15:06

, as a team , not

15:08

like , well , we have

15:10

to do this because you need this

15:12

or we have to do this because I need this .

15:15

To be honest , I think a lot of conflict

15:17

comes a lot of in-law

15:20

family dynamic conflict . Extended family conflict

15:22

comes from unclear communication

15:24

on both sides .

15:26

Between partners about expectations .

15:28

Yes , but I do think it often starts

15:30

here and it's fuzzy here and so it's really

15:33

fuzzy going out and I think

15:35

of my parents , I think of your siblings , who

15:37

have been sincerely perfect

15:40

intentions about trying to understand a

15:42

decision , or what the plan is or whatever , and because

15:44

, we don't know our communication's really bad

15:46

outside and so things

15:48

feel like there's a lot of noise all over

15:50

because there is . So

15:53

I think clear , good , healthy

15:55

communication here and then

15:58

going out I think alleviates

16:00

a lot of anxiety all the way around and

16:02

, I think , the way you can have .

16:04

So I think it's

16:06

funny you mentioned birthdays . I think one of the reasons

16:08

I was thinking about this is

16:10

I know we're in September

16:12

, but like these are the times

16:15

, like we're not too far off from holidays

16:17

happening , thanksgiving .

16:18

Christmas .

16:20

And there's a lot of these kinds of conversations

16:23

.

16:23

It's funny , even Halloween . Oh yeah

16:25

, halloween's one of those times where it's like

16:27

, oh my goodness , it can be a thing

16:30

.

16:30

But yeah , sorry , halloween is also my least

16:32

favorite thing . I'm

16:34

not a big dress up person , you know

16:36

.

16:37

You also didn't grow up with it .

16:39

I don't think that has anything to do with whether

16:42

I like to dress up or not .

16:43

I disagree , you do .

16:45

Yes , do you love to dress up ? Like

16:47

is like the most favorite thing you've ever done is

16:49

dressing up .

16:50

It's not my most favorite thing I've ever done . I think it's

16:52

very enjoyable and I love

16:54

a family costume .

16:55

The least favorite thing is to dress

16:57

up .

16:58

Like in all of life .

16:59

I mean , I can't think of anything I dislike more

17:01

, but I think I've been thinking

17:03

about this .

17:05

We just had a total side to the fashion .

17:06

I mean , I wasn't yeah .

17:08

I don't like dressing up .

17:10

But I think this

17:12

, this is why I was thinking about it , because these , all

17:15

these holidays and things are coming up , halloween

17:17

included , and

17:20

I , I do . I

17:22

do think that oftentimes

17:24

couples get sideways

17:26

and how they communicate within laws about

17:29

these things brothers and laws

17:31

, sisters and laws , mothers

17:33

and fathers and laws um

17:36

uncles and laws , and

17:38

, and I , and I do think

17:41

that I think it's still just one law , uncle's law

17:44

. I mean an uncle in law and even a thing

17:46

.

17:47

I know what you said uncles and laws .

17:49

Oh well , I'm tired

17:51

. Um , so anyway

17:53

, I I I do think

17:56

that a way for couples to approach this in

17:58

an effective way , let's let's

18:00

take a birthday , for example , or

18:02

a Halloween , for let's stick with the birthday example

18:04

, thinking through like , hey , in

18:07

your family , when you celebrated

18:09

birthdays , what did you really enjoy

18:11

about how your family did it Like

18:13

? What do you want to make

18:15

sure that we like , keep

18:18

in , like

18:20

our family history , our

18:22

family process of celebrating

18:25

birthdays ? I

18:27

like this . And and then , in

18:29

that way , you can get at the

18:31

idea of what are your expectations

18:33

about what this looks like .

18:35

Here's what I like about that . And then here's , I

18:37

think , a little bit of what's sticky

18:40

about that . What I love about that is

18:42

that's what we're actually talking about . Like

18:44

, I think that's what we're trying to actually

18:47

talk about .

18:48

Yes .

18:49

What I think is sticky about that is immediately I'm

18:51

like , well , yeah , that would be great if

18:54

that's how we did the birthday . But I also

18:56

said that I only wanted your parents to come to the hospital after

18:58

the baby was born for 25 minutes , and you let them stay

19:00

for two and a half hours . So it doesn't really matter

19:02

what I want .

19:04

Sure , that would seems like there's some resentment

19:06

there that you should work through . No , no

19:08

, I get that .

19:09

I'm just saying , like that is how things this

19:11

simple conversation . Because

19:14

, because , there always is history and

19:16

even if go ahead .

19:17

But I think there's a second part to the conversation , because

19:20

what we're talking about is having the conversation in

19:22

a new way . So your head so

19:24

yes , you have to be aware of there

19:27

can be some of that baggage .

19:28

but I'm just saying like when does that get to come up

19:30

Next ?

19:32

So , for example , so you've

19:34

established what it is that you want

19:37

, and then

19:39

you say , okay , how

19:41

can we communicate this

19:44

to our families

19:46

? What is going to be a way that's going

19:48

to feel good for both of us in

19:50

terms of communicating this with our families

19:52

? I

19:55

think that that's how you get at

19:57

the not repeating

19:59

. I'd said I

20:01

didn't want your parents to come to the hospital

20:04

or whatever , and they did .

20:06

Right , I think , yes . I

20:09

think , though , that that is the next

20:11

place , though , where things get sideways , because

20:13

now we're talking about the hospital , which , if

20:15

our baby is three was three

20:17

years ago , so now it's like

20:19

, oh my goodness . And now everyone's back

20:21

to like either despairing

20:24

or angry , or now sure like oh

20:26

, you just hate my parents . I'm like they just were excited

20:28

and right , you're back . You're like

20:30

stuck and now you're not talking about what

20:33

you came to talk about .

20:34

Right .

20:34

So either I think those things need to be resolved , so

20:37

somehow there needs to be some like accountability

20:39

or some forgiveness .

20:40

Sure .

20:40

And that birth story conversation

20:43

or if that can't happen

20:45

in that moment we have to stay on topics . We have

20:47

to agree . You're right , that was

20:49

a disaster .

20:50

I don't want that this should go . I don't want

20:53

that to happen Like this is why we're

20:55

having a conversation in this way so that

20:57

doesn't happen again . Correct ?

20:59

I think that that comment while

21:01

I hope that you will all like jot

21:03

that down it's really hard to come

21:05

up with in the moment , unless you're prepared and be like

21:07

hey , we're going to talk about our

21:11

pretend baby's birthday , right ? I

21:14

know that that is tough . This could be a tough conversation

21:16

and all things can get brought up , and of course you

21:18

know I get that . Let's not , can

21:21

we like ? let's try to stay on topic . I really

21:23

want this to go well . I really want you to feel

21:25

respected and I know historically you haven't

21:27

something like that .

21:29

You know , like just go ahead .

21:31

Stephen always uses the word clunky and it's my favorite

21:33

thing , like be as clunky as you need

21:35

to be to say I know where it could go wrong

21:37

. I know that sometimes I get super defensive

21:39

. I know that sometimes I have totally

21:41

dodged this conversation and not had it proactively . Right

21:44

, you are not wrong . Or I know

21:46

I get really attacking , I know . I can

21:48

be really critical . I know that I can bring

21:50

up old things . I'm going to try really hard

21:52

to stay on topic . I don't want to do that

21:54

. I really want this to go well .

21:56

Yeah , yeah . And so , again , I

21:58

think a way to approach these

22:00

conversations whether it's Christmas , thanksgiving

22:03

, vacation , what

22:05

you want to do on the weekend , if you're going over

22:07

to dinner , you know , at a parent's house is

22:11

to ask the question hey

22:13

, what did you really like

22:16

or appreciate about this event

22:18

or this experience in

22:20

your life as a kid ?

22:22

What about this is important to you ? Yeah , yeah and

22:24

how so ?

22:25

And what do we ? What like ? How do we want

22:27

to preserve that ? Like ? How do we like

22:29

, what would it look like for us to

22:31

keep that great thing that

22:33

you loved and enjoyed about this

22:36

experience ? And both share that

22:38

, like ? This is what's really important to me , this is what's

22:40

important to me and think about , okay , how

22:42

can we meld those two things together in

22:45

a way that feels good for us ? And then

22:47

the question is and how

22:49

can we communicate this with our families

22:52

together ? And

22:55

I think that if you just start

22:57

there , you

23:00

can shift the conversation

23:02

away from

23:04

those negative , like past experiences

23:07

granted , like you were saying , like you might need

23:09

to resolve some of those so

23:11

that you can , but

23:13

I think that it can be a good approach

23:16

to being

23:18

on the same page , so

23:20

that you can communicate the boundaries

23:23

and the things that you want with your family

23:25

. Because I think oftentimes

23:27

, like , if the family

23:29

sees that you're on the same page , there's not much

23:31

to , yeah

23:34

, to push back on or to or to be confused

23:36

about , because I really think that that's what can

23:38

happen is like your family can get confused and like

23:40

well , you said this and then you said this . Like which one

23:43

are we doing ?

23:43

And again we are talking about . I think you

23:45

use the word normal , which I think that's a relative

23:48

word , but you know , healthy interaction , yeah

23:50

, yeah , Family . Who who genuinely

23:52

wants to know ? And isn't trying

23:54

to violate your boundaries , but it's just like , what's

23:56

the plan ? Yeah , it'd

23:59

be great to know one .

24:00

Yeah even if they can

24:02

be pushy about it or have an agenda or

24:04

have their own thoughts or their own ideas or things that

24:06

they want . I mean , that's fine . People like

24:09

you're a human being . We all have those things .

24:11

And I think then , in terms of like , how you

24:13

communicate that together , when you said that word

24:15

, like it doesn't mean you both have to be on the call or you

24:17

both must be , there in person

24:19

, like it doesn't , but like we are going to be clear

24:21

about the language we use and we're going to be really

24:23

respectful and say like we really want

24:25

to spend time with you or it's really important to us

24:27

that our pretend baby gets

24:30

to have as many people there to celebrate

24:32

them as want to be . Also , there

24:34

are three that can be really overwhelming , so we

24:36

were thinking this would be a great way for

24:38

you to get to be involved and for them to actually enjoy

24:41

it . Not whatever it is , it doesn't really

24:43

matter , yeah but where

24:45

you are communicating in a very clear but

24:48

also way that like

24:50

honors how you feel about that relationship

24:52

.

24:52

Yeah , yeah , yeah , and and

24:55

again . I think the key is you

24:57

as partners , communicating

25:00

your expectations and being on

25:02

the same page first

25:05

, yes , in terms

25:07

of that .

25:09

When you both are clear , like you said

25:11

, with curious questions and like I

25:13

don't understand that .

25:15

Yeah .

25:16

I don't . That is not a value of mine . I

25:18

want to know more , though . I know it's important to you . I

25:20

kind of like how you turned out .

25:23

So right , Right yeah .

25:25

Like tell me , like , walk me through it , show

25:27

me , paint me the picture , yeah , yeah .

25:29

And I think you know if we do think you

25:31

know for our fake three year old , but we do

25:33

have three kids , so

25:36

for for for our real kids . I

25:39

do think that this conversation , let's say particularly

25:42

around birthdays , does

25:44

feel like we have

25:46

a good system , we have a good like

25:49

like . We have the same

25:51

, I think , expectations about

25:53

what that looks like and how we involve

25:55

other people , because we've

25:58

had some not great conversations about it . But

26:00

I , but I do think that we ended

26:02

up having this conversation

26:05

about like well , what do we like and what

26:08

did we like about birthdays , and what is the feeling

26:10

of a birthday that we want our kids to have

26:12

? And then how can we achieve

26:15

that together ?

26:16

I like that . I think the other thing that

26:18

is important to be very

26:21

tender with is saying like what

26:23

you fear about the other persons , like

26:25

I know , and I hope this is okay to share , but

26:27

I know you've said in the past like when

26:30

your whole family is involved in

26:32

our kids' birthday , my

26:35

opinion can feel like it doesn't matter .

26:37

Sure yeah .

26:38

And that I care about that

26:40

. How Stephen says that you

26:43

know like your family takes over , they're super controlling

26:45

, is really different from I wanna get

26:47

to feel like I'm a part of it and like I

26:49

get to say , and where we get this from and

26:51

also my communication .

26:53

like your family's , controlling always takes over . Honestly

26:56

, a lot of that is about just my own fear

26:58

. Like my own fear .

27:01

Because I think I'm just saying

27:03

these are the things that come out .

27:04

Right , because if you , you know , kind

27:07

of like , without that fear , you know

27:09

what , like your

27:11

family isn't that way . Your family's just excited and they just

27:13

like to celebrate and that is a good

27:15

thing . Like when you're communicating about my

27:17

family , like one of your fears is like I

27:20

just want it to feel like

27:22

a celebration , sure , and

27:24

I have a fear that if we- Well

27:26

, yeah , the way you just made it worse , did it the ? way you did it , it wouldn't

27:29

be celebratory . Okay , I mean , that

27:31

doesn't mean that you don't think my family is fun

27:34

or terrible . You know

27:36

curmudgens . It just means like

27:38

I fear that it won't feel celebrated

27:40

, I fear that I could feel controlled . But

27:43

if we actually hash

27:45

that out , we don't have to fear

27:48

those things . We can be aware of it .

27:49

Yeah , neither of us wants that for the other

27:51

partners . It's never . I

27:54

mean I think never . And again , we

27:56

are talking about couple relationships

27:58

where they're pursuing health right . So you're

28:00

like I want Stephen to feel

28:02

, as a part of our kids'

28:04

birthday , as I do .

28:06

Sure cool .

28:07

In fact , I need Stephen to be as a

28:09

part of our kids' birthday as . I am and

28:12

I don't want to take over . I

28:14

know Stephen doesn't want to take over , but

28:16

those are the fears that start getting activated and

28:18

it's like , wow , you're people , they're

28:20

doing this to us and I

28:23

think so . I think , yes , this

28:25

is what I really love , this is what's important to me

28:27

, this is what can bubble up as a fear

28:29

, and not getting to do it that way .

28:31

Yeah , yeah , and so

28:33

I think one of the things that helps

28:36

with communication with

28:38

in-laws about any

28:41

kind of boundary like this

28:43

, is that getting

28:45

on the same page as

28:48

partners so that you can have

28:50

that clear , effective

28:52

proactive joint communication

28:55

with your family . Today's

28:58

show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell

29:00

. If you're enjoying the podcast , please

29:02

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29:10

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29:12

. Thanks

29:16

so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling

29:18

for Parents and remember working

29:20

on a healthy couple relationship is

29:22

good parenting .