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0:14

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0:37

Hello and welcome . This is Couples Counseling for

0:39

Parents . A show about couple

0:41

relationships , how they work , why

0:44

they don't , what you can do to fix

0:46

what's broken . Pure Parents

0:48

Our dad , Dr Stephen Mitchell

0:50

, and our mom , Erin Mitchell .

0:54

Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling

0:56

for Parents . I'm Dr Stephen Mitchell , I'm

0:58

Erin Mitchell and on today's

1:00

show we want to talk about

1:03

what you and your partner can do

1:05

when you are feeling disconnection

1:09

in your relationship . What

1:12

, why do you laugh ?

1:14

I was going to make a joke about , but no

1:16

one's feeling disconnected .

1:17

Oh , that's true , but that's so uncommon . But

1:19

then I was like , oh , it's just of

1:22

course it's such a reality of being

1:25

a couple and being

1:27

parents , this feeling

1:29

of being disconnected . Couples are

1:31

purposefully trying to not be connected

1:33

or they're like anything

1:36

other than just

1:46

the day-to-day life that goes

1:49

on as parenting partners

1:51

and how that leads to disconnection

1:53

.

1:54

Okay , I think we need to talk

1:56

more about that , but let's do it because- .

1:59

Let me read . You want me to read the case example

2:01

, and then we can- .

2:03

Yeah , because I'm just going to say what we

2:05

can continue on because I'm worried I'll lose

2:07

the thought . But I think it does

2:09

feel to a lot

2:11

of partners like their partner is trying

2:14

to be disconnected

2:16

. That

2:19

their partner isn't trying to

2:21

do the things that would

2:23

make them feel connected .

2:25

Ah , okay , all right , which feels intentional

2:27

? Okay , so let's get

2:29

into the case example , and then we'll expand

2:31

on that thought .

2:34

There are other thoughts too , but yes , Excellent

2:36

.

2:37

Okay , so here's the case example . Let

2:41

me get to it . Here we are . So

2:43

Todd and Ahmad have been

2:45

together for eight years and have two kids , and

2:47

if you ask both of them , they would say they have a strong

2:50

, close relationship . They enjoy being

2:52

together , love their role as parents and

2:54

feel mostly positive about

2:56

their relationship . All

2:59

this being said , they would also say

3:01

that right now in their relationship , they feel disconnected

3:04

. Neither one of them really even knows

3:06

why . They have a good foundation

3:08

, they have a good history of loving one another and feeling

3:10

close , but presently they just

3:12

feel distant . No one has really

3:15

quote unquote done anything

3:17

that would be an easy identifier

3:19

as a reason for their disconnection . They

3:22

just feel off . It's not

3:24

like it used to be . Yes , they both

3:26

feel like since becoming parents , their relationship

3:28

has changed in all the ways . Kids change

3:30

a relationship , but they in no way

3:33

regret this change . It's just

3:35

little things that seem to keep them

3:37

from feeling as close as they used to . Little

3:39

things like falling asleep with one of the

3:41

kids at night instead of staying up and spending

3:43

some time together , or when they both

3:46

get home from work at the end of the day , focusing

3:48

more on connecting with the kids and

3:50

making sure the family reunification

3:52

is positive and not having any rituals

3:54

for their couple reunification or

3:57

moments where one of them gets overwhelmed and

3:59

interacts with the kids in a way . That is less than

4:01

ideal and even though the interaction

4:04

is resolved with the kids , not

4:06

feeling like it's resolved between the two of

4:08

them , and all these little micro

4:10

moments don't seem like a big

4:12

deal in the moment and many times

4:15

just happen and then are moved past

4:17

. Yet later

4:19

, after the fact , these micro

4:21

moments start adding up and both Todd

4:23

and Ahmad find they are frustrated

4:25

with each other or feel distant

4:28

. For both of them it can feel silly

4:30

to bring these things up , and it's not

4:33

uncommon . If one of them does , the

4:35

other becomes defensive and tries to brush

4:37

the concern aside . The net effect

4:39

of this pattern is Todd and Ahmad know

4:42

they love each other , but they don't

4:44

feel connected or close

4:46

.

4:48

I think that's really

4:51

good .

4:51

The life of every parenting

4:53

partner who's ever been

4:55

. Yeah , wait , don't put it down

4:58

, I need to see it .

4:59

So I think , yeah , I think there's

5:01

so many things I loved . I

5:03

wrote some of the little words

5:05

down and , honestly , what they are little

5:07

like , these little things

5:09

and these micro moments

5:11

, and mostly positive , and we don't

5:14

know why .

5:14

It could feel silly to bring it up .

5:17

Well , you don't even know what to bring up . So

5:20

I think these are the things we hear from couples

5:22

all of the time and couples we're working with

5:24

.

5:24

We've never experienced them , though .

5:28

This is what we're saying to each other all of the time

5:30

.

5:30

This doesn't happen for us .

5:31

No , I think , and I think that that's exactly

5:33

the thing , but so I think . So

5:37

by the time that this couple sees

5:39

us , they

5:41

I don't think couples seek out this

5:47

they I don't think couples seek out . It is very uncommon for a couple to seek out working with us or

5:49

, I think , working with someone else . Because of this feeling . I don't think

5:51

this feels like a big enough deal .

5:52

It's gotten a little more crusty by the time

5:55

they come and see us is what .

5:57

I would say that's graphic .

5:58

This , this , like this

6:00

generalized feeling

6:03

of distance or disconnection

6:05

, most couples still

6:07

are like oh , you know , it's just a phase . It's a stage

6:10

, we'll

6:19

figure it out . And it begins to feel

6:21

like wait a second , you're

6:23

not doing work

6:26

to help us not feel

6:28

disconnected or to not

6:30

feel distant . And then this is where the

6:33

crustification that's a real word

6:35

.

6:35

I was just going to say that's a word that .

6:36

I made up begins to happen . And

6:39

then this is when couples come to see

6:41

us and they're pretty tired , they're

6:43

pretty hurt , they're pretty resentful and

6:45

they're pretty confused . I would say

6:47

about , like man , what

6:49

happened to our relationship .

6:52

So I think the other part that I think is worth

6:54

mentioning is that in the

6:56

beginning they both said we enjoy being

6:58

together , we love being parents and mostly we feel

7:00

positive about a relationship . And because

7:02

I do think people would say that but

7:04

also like , really

7:07

, Because all of those things are true , but

7:10

like one or ten layers beneath

7:12

, that is like I don't

7:14

really feel close to you .

7:16

I don't .

7:17

I like you . I definitely still

7:19

want to be with you . I wish we felt closer , but I

7:21

don't . I don't

7:24

feel connected to you . I don't feel like you

7:26

really want to feel any more connected

7:28

than we are .

7:29

So so what ? Um , because

7:31

I , I I'm thinking , you know , oh , so

7:34

so you know , people would be like , well , you just need some

7:36

time together .

7:37

You know you need some date nights

7:39

.

7:39

You need some um , um , regularly

7:42

scheduled moments where

7:44

um you know you're you're focusing

7:46

on your couple relationship and all of that

7:48

. Hey , that's great , super positive , do

7:50

that ? I think that's

7:53

a good idea .

7:55

Well , I think those can be good ideas . Yeah , yeah , I don't

7:57

think they necessarily .

8:00

But what would you say ? The thing

8:03

is Like what's the issue there ? Okay , so what's the thing our kids

8:05

say ? The thing is Like what's the issue ?

8:06

there , okay . So what's the thing

8:08

our kids say in the beginning ? How

8:10

they work , why they don't ?

8:11

And what you can do to fix what's broken .

8:13

So I didn't remember the order . So how they

8:15

work , I think it's all the words that

8:18

I wrote down , that I liked Like this is

8:20

what connects for me about how a relationship

8:22

works it is the little things . It is the little things . It

8:25

is the little things that connect us . And

8:27

it is also the little things that

8:29

disconnect us .

8:30

So how ? Let's just pause , because

8:33

that's deep . Everyone take

8:35

that in . It's the little things that

8:37

connect us . And it's

8:39

the little things that disconnect us . Quotes

8:42

Aaron Mitchell .

8:44

Thank you All right .

8:45

But it's also the little things

8:47

that fix what's broken .

8:49

Oh man , I didn't have that in the quote .

8:51

I know because you didn't let me finish Dang it .

8:53

I'm so sorry Shoot .

8:55

So I think how it works

8:57

is different for each couple . I think it's different

8:59

for each individual . So I think that

9:01

you are a person who likes time

9:03

. Individual . So I think that you are a person who likes time . You're

9:06

a person who , like , if I'm like , hey

9:12

, steven , guess what I did ? I carved out three hours on Friday night or whatever it's Sunday

9:14

brunch , doesn't really matter when , and it's going to be just you and me and we're going

9:16

to go do this thing or we're going , I mean , for

9:18

you it would be like we're going to dinner and

9:20

you'd be like I am excited , loved

9:24

, I feel cared for , I will look forward to that time

9:26

and we may not speak again

9:28

until that time .

9:29

Right , because you're like , yeah

9:31

, well , we'll do , we'll talk , then

9:33

yeah , um and

9:35

that does .

9:36

That is nice for me . I , if

9:38

you said all of those things to me , I'd be like oh , that was

9:40

thoughtful . That does not feel

9:42

connective to me . For

9:45

me , I want

9:47

to like wake up in the morning

9:49

and have you like see me and feel

9:51

like you're excited that I live in the same

9:53

house as you . Good morning , yeah , it's gonna be a great day

9:55

kind of like , um , yeah and

9:58

then , similarly , I think , especially

10:00

for parents , that this is one of those things

10:02

where so if

10:05

just working with this , I've

10:07

made a dinner reservation for us , example , if

10:10

you said to me hey , aaron , I made a dinner reservation

10:12

for us and you wanted that to be significant

10:15

, and that is obviously you trying to make a movement

10:17

of like , hey , I miss you . I want to connect

10:19

with you . But I feel like from

10:22

now until then , I am drowning

10:24

under the weight of an unequal load

10:26

of parenting , household work

10:29

, imbalance .

10:31

Yeah , I'm not trying to connect

10:33

to you in quote , unquote little

10:35

ways like throughout .

10:37

Yeah , yeah , right , because those aren't little things yeah , yeah , yeah

10:39

and it's like well , excuse

10:43

me if I don't show up this dinner is gonna

10:45

be awesome overjoyed for

10:47

time with you and like give you this big

10:49

pat on the back because we've

10:51

got time , but like I'm drowning

10:53

the other six days of the week , that's

10:56

not gonna work out for me , you know like

10:58

yeah , well , well , I think , I

11:00

think that's how they don't , I think . Think

11:03

how they do work

11:05

is couples Just for

11:07

me to close .

11:11

So why this becomes a thing is

11:13

because Disconnection . Yeah , why

11:16

this disconnection happens

11:18

is because there's sort of

11:20

a stacking up

11:22

of the little micro

11:25

moments where

11:28

connection could happen but

11:30

doesn't happen . Big

11:44

moments , or these big things of hey , let's take a trip or

11:46

hey , let's have a dinner it doesn't fill that

11:48

space , yeah

11:51

they feel like gestures .

11:52

At that point , Nice Welcome gestures . I

11:54

mean I doubt anybody's going to be like , no , thank you , I

11:56

don't want a trip .

11:57

No , let's do that but also .

11:59

No , that doesn't fill quite the chasm

12:02

that feels like the other 360

12:05

days of the year .

12:11

So in the case example we were talking , you know , todd and

12:13

Ahmad , there's these little things like these little things like

12:15

when they come home from work

12:17

they understand it . I mean it's hard

12:19

for this not to happen . It's like focusing on

12:22

the kids and

12:24

getting you know them

12:26

settled and helping them feel re

12:28

, you know , kind of reunified with the

12:30

family , but a mess with each

12:32

other or seeing

12:35

a partner .

12:36

Wait , I want to pause on that one because I think that

12:38

that is one of the most interesting

12:41

, potentially misunderstood

12:44

parts for a lot of couples , I think a

12:46

lot would be one you would Well

12:49

, I think it's worth talking about because I think a lot

12:51

of partners feel like we spend too much time

12:53

with our kids . I

12:56

think there's a way to be together as an entire

12:58

family and still connecting as a couple

13:01

.

13:01

Yes , I agree .

13:03

Yeah , I know you do , but I think that it gets misrepresented

13:06

a lot of times .

13:07

Like you just need time away from your kids so you can

13:10

connect as a couple .

13:11

Yeah , and maybe you do . I'm

13:13

not trying to say you don't need that

13:15

or you do need that . I'm just saying

13:17

that I think that a lot of

13:19

times what we hear from one

13:21

partner is their only priority

13:24

is our kid . I think that that can

13:26

be a shared thing

13:28

. I think we can find couple time even

13:31

in the midst of being with our

13:33

kids so I , I

13:36

just want to make sure we're not trying to paint this picture

13:38

of if you're always with your kids

13:40

, your couple relationship's gonna

13:42

suffer right , I don't right

13:44

, right , right , yeah , yeah I .

13:47

I don't want to say that either , so so , these

13:49

can be hard . Yeah . Yeah

13:51

, yeah so so there's these moments of disconnection

13:53

that are happening , these little moments

13:55

that are adding up Um

13:58

and uh

14:00

, like I . I I'm just thinking

14:03

like , how

14:05

do , how does a couple first of

14:07

all be aware of the little moments , in

14:11

terms of the opportunities , but then also

14:13

the moments missed , so

14:15

that they can also repair

14:17

those moments that maybe have been

14:20

, so they can take the opportunities and

14:22

repair the moments that have been missed , so

14:24

that the general feeling

14:26

of the relationship is

14:28

we're both trying to be mindful of

14:30

being connected and we're

14:32

both working towards that . We're both , you

14:35

know , trying here .

14:37

Yeah , is that ?

14:39

that's a question .

14:40

Okay , well , so I think that those

14:42

moments are different for each partner . I

14:45

think very rarely do we talk to a couple

14:47

where it's like we connect and feel

14:49

like close

14:52

and , like their partner's , been intentional towards

14:54

us in the same way . So , I think , especially

14:58

again as parents , we default

15:00

back to old ways of being

15:03

and just sort of like trying to make it through the day

15:05

and we kind of forget , not kind

15:07

of forget , not kind of . We forget or deprioritize

15:10

movements , little movements

15:12

towards ourselves and

15:15

our partner . So I

15:17

think it's getting really clear

15:19

not critical , but clear

15:21

about like Ooh , I like that

15:23

.

15:23

Get clear , not critical . That's another quote

15:26

. I like that's a great phrase

15:28

. I love that . Yeah , that feels

15:30

so helpful to me . Get

15:32

clear , not critical .

15:34

Because I think the difference is is I can

15:36

go through a day and I could say , if

15:38

I got to choose our family

15:40

for myself , with me being the

15:42

center of of

15:45

the , the subject of this storyline

15:47

. This is how my dream day would

15:49

be feeling like we were connected

15:51

as a family . We would wake up , me

15:53

and Stephen , we would have a moment . I

15:55

would see him look at me and be like hey , you

15:57

live here , I'm excited about you , we

16:00

were together .

16:01

This is all very true , everyone .

16:03

Me too , and

16:06

then I would feel fine to go

16:08

and do all the stuff that has to happen for the next

16:10

45 minutes .

16:11

Right , yeah , okay .

16:12

Yeah , what .

16:13

I thought when you said I'd be fine to go and do all the stuff

16:15

that has to happen , you were referring to the whole

16:17

day and I was like wait , wait , wait . No , that doesn't

16:19

feel true .

16:20

But you said , for yeah , that

16:22

feels so like I don't need to like and

16:24

I think this is the misrepresentation I think

16:26

steven would be like aaron would like to get

16:29

our kids ready for the day . Holding hands

16:31

never , ever not be . No

16:33

, I know that you don't really mean that , but like I

16:35

feel like that's what it can sound like I'm

16:38

looking for and that's not what I mean , like I'm

16:40

probably not going to talk to you for the next couple hours if

16:42

I'm being I mean like really talk to you we're definitely going

16:44

to be like where's the box , where's

16:46

that bag ? right what's the thing ? Um

16:48

? But in terms of like , I

16:51

feel like we've started out and it's like , okay , we're a team

16:53

, all right , break , we go

16:55

do this and we knock some stuff out .

16:57

I do stuff , you do stuff but I , but

16:59

I think , within that also it's like you've

17:01

acknowledged me , you've noticed yes you're

17:04

, you're excited about

17:06

. Like me as a person

17:08

, I think that that's a real part of it , at

17:12

least as I understand what

17:14

as we've had this conversation what you've

17:16

communicated .

17:17

Yeah , for me it's like the day is going to be stressful

17:19

. There's no way around that , which doesn't mean

17:21

bad , it just means like , whew , there's going

17:23

to be a lot coming our way , but

17:31

we're going to do this as a team . Go , you do your stuff , I'll do mine . And then you know , probably

17:33

throughout the day , that I was telling one of our kids this yesterday we were on a walk and I was like

17:35

you know , I've noticed that dad's really

17:38

trying to make me feel like he's

17:40

paying attention to me . He

17:48

sent me several texts today , like I think two , which is a few , maybe a lot for

17:50

me . Yeah , about , like hey , just checking on you .

17:51

How's the day Like ?

17:51

that's meaningful to me . Um , and I'm like it's been pretty great , thanks . Like

17:53

I'm not again , I'm not looking for like

17:55

. Let's like dissect

17:58

our feelings in the middle of our work days

18:00

.

18:00

Right , Well , and you're not a needy

18:02

person and it's not like you know

18:04

you

18:07

need to be .

18:07

I thought of you , I remembered we're together , right , how are you ?

18:09

These are the little things that help you feel

18:11

connected or or even to to

18:14

kind of you know you , you were on a walk

18:16

with one of our kids , you know to do something

18:18

like hey , like hey , I saw you were on a

18:20

walk with them . Like how did it go ? Like

18:23

what ? What

18:30

did y'all talk about ? Like to kind of show like an interest in your life

18:32

and what you're doing and that what you're doing is important and special and you know all that

18:34

kind of stuff is really . It's

18:37

noticing you as a person , but

18:39

also noticing you as a mom

18:41

and also noticing , like , the work

18:43

you're doing and all those other things

18:45

.

18:45

Yeah , and then I think so . When we all come back together

18:48

at the end of the day , I think and this

18:50

is another one of those examples where I do feel

18:52

like couples our

18:55

relationship can be enhanced , even

18:57

with our kids around , because one of the things

19:00

that endears me to you most

19:02

I mean honestly , at this point in our life most

19:05

is when you are

19:07

like out there kicking a soccer

19:09

ball . We have some very soccer

19:11

focused kids right now and like I

19:13

love that . I'm like I

19:16

think that this is sweet and good

19:18

and it does my soul good

19:21

.

19:21

When I'm present .

19:22

Yeah , and I feel like you're like , engaged

19:25

and it doesn't have to just be with me , right

19:28

.

19:28

But like , but with them , yeah , yeah , and

19:30

, and so I , I , I think

19:32

that this is what is is

19:34

really important is

19:37

, first of all , to have these conversations and to know

19:39

what these things are .

19:40

So so , for me , I'm , I'm , what I'm trying

19:42

to be in that moment is clear and not like critical

19:44

. Yes .

19:47

And and we have had these clear , not critical , conversations

19:49

, and we've had these critical and unclear conversations

19:52

, Absolutely , you know so . So this

19:54

is , you know , part of the practice and part of the work

19:56

, but but I think the takeaway for me is so

19:58

I , I hear

20:01

, I hear like I

20:03

think there's a real shift to to

20:05

not hear this as , like Aaron

20:08

, you know , man , you're just nagging about

20:11

all these things that I have to do , you

20:13

know , and I got to do all this stuff perfectly

20:15

, or whatever it might be , Because I think that

20:17

when it feels critical , that's

20:19

sort of the tone and the spirit of it .

20:21

Well , when it feels critical , it's because around lunchtime

20:23

I text and like , hey , good morning , nice to

20:25

see you today . Right and how could that

20:27

sound critical and I think critical

20:29

.

20:29

But I think for me , what it is is it is

20:31

beginning to understand like , hey

20:34

, these are meaningful things

20:37

to you , my partner

20:39

, these are the kinds of things that help

20:41

you feel connected

20:43

and close , like I care

20:45

, like I'm attuned , like I am

20:48

paying attention , and so , in a

20:50

way , like they don't

20:52

feel like demands or nagging

20:54

, they just feel like

20:56

, oh , this is useful information

20:59

, Like it's helpful for me to know this , because

21:01

I want you to feel like I care

21:03

and I want the little things to add

21:06

up to feel like points

21:08

of connection , and I think that

21:13

it helps

21:15

me think about it in those terms

21:17

. And

21:19

it does help , when it's communicated clearly

21:22

and not critically , to be able to

21:24

hear it that way and not critically

21:26

, to be able to hear it that way . And I think

21:28

it like for me as a partner . Then I'm

21:30

like , oh , like I know how to connect

21:32

with my partner , like

21:34

this is what helps bring connection

21:37

and I want to do that and

21:39

I can work towards doing that .

21:41

And I think that the other being very

21:43

clear , because I honestly think that we should say

21:45

from your side too we only got to about , we'll

21:47

say 6 pm yeah , well , we don't

21:49

need to go the whole day but I

21:51

think that if I'm starting to notice

21:54

by lunch that I'm feeling frustrated

21:57

or annoyed , or like I'm , because

21:59

here's what happens this is how disconnection stacks

22:01

up is when we've started off the morning

22:03

on the wrong foot because we're

22:06

late and now we're just in go mode and like I

22:08

don't care about greeting you like and mutually

22:11

, you know like we've just got stuff to do and you

22:13

know go , go , go , go go . But then then

22:15

you start looking for other ways .

22:17

Things aren't um

22:19

yeah , you can find all the mistakes . You can find all

22:21

the reasons why I don't I

22:23

think mistakes is such a terrible but that's

22:25

what I mean .

22:26

That's right , you're looking for the flaws .

22:28

You're looking for the breaks , you're looking for the disconnect

22:30

this is why my partner is purposefully

22:33

not trying to connect .

22:34

Yes , this is how it's intentional yeah

22:36

and I think that once we notice

22:38

, we have those days too uh-huh , and when

22:40

you notice you have that lens , the

22:42

the correction doesn't have to be

22:45

we just keep going that way . You're

22:47

like oh my gosh , I have that lens . What happened today

22:49

? What's been going on ? And you say

22:51

like and then ? And then you do send the text

22:53

, or you have the call , or you write

22:56

the note , or you send the email or whatever you

22:58

know like , however , you all reach out during the day and say like

23:00

man , I'm noticing , I feel like

23:02

we started this morning off , like I hope we can reset , like I wish we would have

23:04

had a slower morning . Or like , oh , I feel like stress started this morning off .

23:06

Like I hope we can reset .

23:06

Like I wish we would have had a slower morning or like oh , I

23:09

feel like stress one the morning , I hope it doesn't win the afternoon

23:11

. Thinking about you . Hope you're having a good day , whatever

23:13

. Just a moment to

23:15

reset , rather than keeping the lens on

23:17

and being like no . I will continue

23:20

to find the ways that you are intentionally

23:22

trying to disconnect from me disengage

23:24

from our life .

23:35

And you're trying to disconnect from me , disengage from our life

23:37

, and you're trying to so . So I think yes , and so I think , like if I

23:39

were to do the flip side , um , I think for me , um , thinking

23:41

through this , trying to be clear , not critical , um , just , you know , I heard

23:44

that from a brilliant , brilliant

23:46

woman Philosopher .

23:59

I'm just trying to think of my general demeanor is , I feel , a certain

24:01

, a certain sort .

24:03

Man a certain sense

24:05

Okay , no man a certain sense of

24:07

overwhelm on a daily basis

24:10

from a standpoint of , like

24:12

, our work life . Yeah , I feel like I'm

24:14

predominantly in charge

24:16

of that .

24:18

Schedule yeah .

24:20

Schedule organization which

24:23

impacts our everyday life , because

24:25

if you're just learning

24:27

this , aaron and I we work together

24:30

and

24:37

so I'm , in a way , in charge of both of our schedules . When it comes to that kind of stuff

24:40

Also , work

24:42

is just a stressful thing , it's our livelihood

24:44

, it's how

24:46

we pay for soccer cleats and things

24:48

like that , and so there , you know , there's all those

24:50

those kinds of concerns and

24:54

I think on

24:56

a , on a normal day , I kind of wake

24:58

up with a , with what feels like a

25:00

pretty big like list

25:03

of things to do . That generates

25:05

some anxiety for me . Like

25:11

list of things to do that generates some anxiety for me . I

25:13

think how I feel , um , a level of connection

25:15

from you is that you're aware of that , uh

25:17

, that you're , you're aware of like , like

25:20

that , that I , that that's

25:22

what's running in my mind , and so

25:24

like and it's simple things like . So

25:29

, if I do like jump up in the morning

25:31

and get going in the day and

25:33

maybe don't have

25:36

the greeting , that

25:38

I think is reasonable for you to want that

25:41

there's an understanding of like , not

25:43

like what a terrible

25:46

person , but like , oh , he must really

25:48

, really be feeling sort of the , the

25:51

burn of the day , um

25:53

, and and and

25:55

then so so it's like more really

25:57

like an aware , like when I feel your

25:59

awareness . So like yesterday , like I

26:02

have um , um , I also

26:04

do some some teaching and things like that . So

26:06

I I generally typically um

26:08

have a day where I go and I take some

26:10

time and I grade , and I usually

26:13

try to do that outside of the house , simply

26:15

because I'm at the house a lot , because we work from

26:17

home . And even like

26:19

I came out of an appointment

26:22

, I came upstairs and then I was

26:24

pretty quickly just kind of like hey , I got to go

26:26

, great . And

26:29

for me you kind of be like okay

26:31

, great , you know where where are you going , like

26:33

okay , see

26:35

ya , that

26:44

that kind of thing , um , that feels super supportive and like helpful to me , because it's like she knows

26:46

, like Erin knows , that I'm not just trying to get out of the house

26:48

or I'm not just trying to leave and not

26:50

help or , you know , not be here with the kids

26:52

, whatever it is . She just knows that I have

26:54

this pressure that I feel

26:57

to get this stuff done and

26:59

she's fine with me doing that

27:01

and I think so . For me it's much

27:04

more just when I when I feel like you're

27:06

aware of some of the pressure that I feel

27:09

and little , there's

27:11

little ways of communicating

27:14

that so like even when I was

27:16

grading yesterday we were kind of texting

27:18

back and forth a good bit . But there are

27:20

also moments where I would just like stopped

27:23

communicating and didn't

27:25

like text back and continue to

27:27

grade and I didn't feel

27:29

any like text pressure from

27:31

you , like hey , what's up ? Like hey

27:33

, are you ? Why aren't you responding ? Because I think

27:35

you're , like you're aware like I'm grading , I'm doing stuff

27:37

, like texting is not sort of the

27:39

objective of why I'm , why

27:43

I'm out of the house , grading

27:45

is why I'm doing it . And like like I

27:47

just feel those things from you . And when I feel those

27:49

things from you , I'm like she gets me

27:51

, she says she supports

27:54

me and and it also does

27:56

allow me to hear you better

27:59

when you're like , hey , I feel like you're not

28:01

maybe as like present or engaged

28:03

here or um , you know

28:05

, or

28:07

when I've been able to go do those things

28:09

, it actually helps me kind of come

28:12

back and be more present and engaged

28:14

, and so I think that it feels a little different , because

28:16

that's not necessarily like . It

28:19

feels more like a spirit and an

28:22

attitude towards me that

28:25

helps me , I'm sorry .

28:27

Yes , go ahead so okay , I think that that's exactly

28:29

right , though , because I think that the attitude piece because everything

28:31

you described , I'm sorry , yes , so okay , I think that that's exactly right , though , because I think that

28:33

the attitude piece because everything you described , I'm like , oh my gosh

28:35

, that is exactly right . I

28:37

think overall . I think

28:39

what you are looking for and

28:42

a lot of partners are looking for is an overall

28:44

feeling of like when I'm

28:46

not connected , it's not because

28:49

I don't want to connect with you , it's not personal . But you're assuming my best that it's like because I'm not connected

28:51

, it's not because I don't want to connect with you . It's not personal Right , but you're assuming my best

28:53

, that it's like because I'm

28:55

stressed . So for me to approach I think that's the clear

28:58

and not critical thing back

29:00

and forth is like hey , you

29:02

do seem disengaged , or like I haven't

29:04

. I haven't made eye contact with you

29:06

in two weeks . What is going on

29:08

? Rather than like you don't

29:11

want to be a part of our family ?

29:13

You always do this . You're just so self-centered

29:15

you don't care . All you can think about or worry about

29:17

is work .

29:18

The only thing you care about is whatever . Yeah

29:20

, yourself and your own stress and pressures , don't you know

29:22

? We all have those like .

29:24

Oh .

29:35

I'm working over here too , I get stressed and it , you know that same kind

29:38

of thing . You need a big metal , a soft hug because you're working like we all are

29:40

, you know , like . But I think that the the reason and the way couples can offer that

29:42

, you know , I would say , like you

29:44

assume each other's best moments

29:47

is when the overall feeling

29:49

is like because I'm

29:52

not going to assume you're best if

29:54

I feel like that

29:56

you aren't trying .

29:58

Right , so it works in a circle , it does yes

30:00

, your attitude towards me can be

30:02

more open and gracious

30:05

if my actions

30:07

towards you are .

30:09

Open and gracious , are open and gracious in terms of Engaged and present

30:11

, and so we and gracious , engaged and present , and

30:14

so we can have a lot more space . And

30:17

then when it's off , it's

30:19

the knee

30:21

jerk . The reaction is like , hey

30:23

, something must be going on , rather than you

30:26

.

30:27

You are doing this yeah .

30:28

And you want to and you don't even . It's because

30:30

you don't care and you never have and you never

30:32

will and you never do . And

30:35

that can sometimes

30:37

take healing , because sometimes this disconnection

30:39

is two days old .

30:40

Two weeks old .

30:41

But sometimes it feels like .

30:43

By the time the crusty couples have gotten to us

30:45

, it takes some healing .

30:48

Yeah and that . But it can

30:50

happen too . There can be

30:52

a new spirit in your relationship

30:54

of I do assume you're best because

30:56

I more often

30:58

than not am receiving that

31:01

you know like I do feel , like you care

31:03

about my needs . I do see that

31:05

you're making the effort , you

31:09

know , to move towards us , because

31:11

we do have different needs . We do have different paces

31:13

, but we do have a shared

31:16

one also .

31:17

So if you're a crusty couple , I love that

31:19

. I don't know

31:22

why . That's my quote of the day . You

31:24

have clear , not

31:27

critical . It's the little

31:29

things that bring us to disconnection , but it's also the little things

31:31

that bring us to disconnection , but it's also the little

31:33

things that help us connect . And

31:35

if you said and the little things that fix what's

31:38

? broken I mean , that's where I have crusty

31:40

couple . But if

31:43

you're one of those couples , I think , I

31:45

think the first thing that you can do

31:47

, um , is

31:49

take a deep breath , recognize

31:52

that you are that couple

31:54

, recognize that you

31:57

are in the company of many

31:59

, many many other couples . It doesn't mean

32:01

your relationship is awful

32:04

or your partner's awful , but

32:06

it does mean your relationship needs

32:08

some attending to , and I think one

32:10

of the first things , what

32:12

you didn't like that Attending to . Attending

32:15

to , tending to ? Yeah , I

32:17

don't know . I don't know how to talk .

32:19

Tending to .

32:20

Yeah , you need some . Your relationship

32:22

needs some tending to . Thank

32:24

you for the correction .

32:26

I didn't correct . I raised an eyebrow

32:28

.

32:30

You were not . You were clear and critical

32:32

All in

32:34

one . All in one , all in one eyebrow

32:37

. I

32:44

wish you could have seen her face . It was so clear and critical . So it means

32:46

that your relationship needs some attention and I think one of the

32:48

first things that you can do is

32:50

, I think , actually the little

32:52

exercise we just did where what

32:55

does connection

32:57

look like for you in the day-to-day , is

33:01

it ? For Aaron , it was more

33:03

these little actions . For me , it was

33:05

more of this general attitude , sorry

33:07

. Which

33:10

has actions with it , without a doubt

33:12

.

33:12

Well , both ways , because really , if I feel

33:14

like you're present , and engaged those are the actions

33:16

that show me that .

33:17

Sure , sure , sure sure .

33:18

When you feel like I am accepting

33:20

and- .

33:21

So action and attitude combined .

33:23

Yeah .

33:23

Like what are the actions and the attitude

33:26

that help

33:28

you feel connected to your partner and realize they're going

33:30

to be different , or they might be the same but and realize they're going to be different , or

33:32

they might be the same , but most likely they're going

33:35

to be different . But you really need to think through

33:37

, like when I feel connected

33:39

to my partner , this is what's

33:41

happening , and then communicate

33:44

that to each other in

33:46

a clear way , not in a critical way , but like

33:49

, hey , this is what I'm noticing , like

33:51

this is what I'm noticing , like

33:53

this

33:59

is what I really like , this is what is helpful . And then I think that that can give you

34:01

a roadmap for how you can begin to

34:03

do that in the

34:05

little moments of each day , absolutely

34:09

. And then I think you really should

34:11

reassess

34:13

, have this conversation

34:16

, have the conversation and say I think it's these things

34:18

, okay , let's try it out . And

34:21

then give yourself a

34:24

day , a couple of days a week and

34:26

then say , hey , let's reassess

34:28

what did we notice ? And

34:31

really intentionally and purposefully

34:33

begin to understand

34:36

your pattern and dynamic

34:38

and how you

34:41

can be very intentional and purposeful

34:43

in shifting it , because that's

34:46

how it shifts .

34:48

And even imperfectly , because no

34:50

one's going to get their perfect day every day . It doesn't

34:52

happen like that . But when you don't

34:54

because , again , pretty often you won't

34:57

it's a difference and we can

34:59

make the adjustment . It

35:01

doesn't have to just lead to the next

35:03

day stacking up .

35:04

If you know you're both working towards that .

35:06

Well , if you both care like today

35:09

did not go like we meant it to go , and

35:11

it doesn't need to be like because

35:14

the end of you or

35:16

whatever . Yeah , I mean you . If it needs

35:18

to be talked about , talk about it . If it doesn't like

35:20

, let's reset , like I would like . Okay

35:23

, tomorrow new day .

35:25

And I do think that

35:28

the principles are that

35:30

it is the little things that

35:33

can help restore and renew

35:35

. It's also the little things that can

35:37

create difficulty

35:39

, but we're looking at this from a positive

35:41

place of like . It's the little things

35:44

that can help your relationship

35:46

grow . And in

35:49

communicating , to be

35:51

clear and not critical to

35:54

and the way you can be clear is by saying this

35:56

is what I notice about myself

35:59

, this is what I notice is useful to

36:01

me , this is what I notice is

36:03

helpful , this is what I notice I want

36:05

, rather than saying you

36:08

make me feel this way , you don't do

36:10

these things . If you did this , it

36:12

would be better . That

36:14

is not the route to go . To

36:17

be clear is to be clear about yourself

36:19

and to communicate that with your partner

36:21

, and I think that if you both can do

36:23

that around these things , you

36:25

can find those

36:28

little ways each day that

36:31

stack up and can help you feel very

36:33

connected as a couple . Today's

36:36

show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell

36:38

. If you're enjoying the podcast , please

36:40

hit the follow button and leave us a rating . This

36:42

helps our content become more visible to others

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who might enjoy it , and it lets us know

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36:49

always , we're grateful for you listening . Thanks

36:54

so much for being with us here today on Couples , counseling

36:56

for Parents , and remember , working

36:58

on a healthy couple relationship is

37:01

good parenting .