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acast.com. Open

1:27

your hearts and loosen your butts. It's time

1:29

for couples therapy. Yeah,

1:32

this podcast is Andy and Naomi's where they

1:34

can both laugh and hang with all their

1:37

homies. Talkin' excellent vacationing with

1:39

brunches and cuddling to messy situations and conscious

1:41

and cuddling from Netflix hookups to single them

1:43

with some Hulu tech sex regrets. So feeling

1:45

on your new juboo, they gonna talk about

1:48

it. Yeah, you are invited. I need in therapy. I

1:50

guarantee baby we got it. Mint's Cup of Apple's Therapy.

2:00

Hello everyone and

2:03

welcome to couples therapy my name

2:05

is Andy. My name is Naomi.

2:07

We're a real life couple of

2:09

comedians and on couples therapy we

2:11

answer a couple different questions from

2:13

a couple different listeners. Hello everyone

2:15

how are you doing in

2:18

your hearts? Did you enjoy the extra day of

2:20

Black History Month? Yes. Did you

2:22

feel forever changed? Did you celebrate a black

2:24

person in your life? Yes. I

2:26

want to know. Oh you're asking

2:29

the listener. You're living Black History Month

2:31

every day. Yes. You're living that every day with me. Oh

2:33

my god it was so funny I was talking to my friend Caroline. I

2:35

think she's listening to the pod but I was talking to her

2:37

about my hair journey and how I'm like growing up the relaxer

2:39

and it's like a mess and I was like but I can't

2:42

really do it and she goes do you think you would teach

2:44

Andy how to how to blow it out? And

2:47

I said no I don't think we're ever

2:49

gonna get Andy to that level of interracial

2:51

love. Yeah I did help you take out

2:53

braids once. I think you did for a

2:55

little bit and then you were like my

2:57

fingers hurt. And so I was like I can't

2:59

because I was like also when it comes to a

3:01

blow. I said my fingers were tender headed. Yeah you said your

3:03

fingers were tender headed. Well when it

3:05

comes to like doing hair you know

3:07

a gifted blowout honey that

3:09

requires a strength, a certain tension in

3:11

the wrist, the ability to really beat

3:14

the hair into submission and I think that's something

3:16

you're born with. I don't think that's something that can be taught. I

3:19

really don't and I said you're used to just giving your

3:21

hair a little just snip snip on the sides and the

3:23

back you know. I come

3:25

to this intro with a topic that I'd like

3:27

to discuss. Bring us

3:29

in. It's very time sensitive.

3:32

It's very now. Criminal

3:35

calling cards. Come

3:37

on. So we've

3:39

been trying to, trying to, we've

3:42

been successful in doing this, watch movies

3:44

that I missed that I should

3:46

have seen at some point. Yes. And we've

3:48

been watching Beverly Hills Cop. Yep. The

3:50

trilogy. Yes. In

3:52

the second one the criminals have a calling card

3:54

and I was watching it being like is this

3:57

a real thing or is

3:59

it something? That only happens

4:02

in fiction. Yeah, you actual

4:04

criminals because it seems crazy to

4:06

taunt the police. Yeah. Yeah Yeah,

4:08

you know if you taught the police who

4:11

knows what will happen They'll either just sit there and

4:13

play candy crush right or fire their guns at you

4:15

right and just vote or kill you It's what yeah,

4:17

what are the two things two options? They're over 10.

4:20

You're a 10 the

4:22

only thing or you know get in their

4:24

copters and Flyer in the

4:26

neighborhood and spend a hundred and sixty

4:28

thousand dollars or whatever it is per flight, right? So

4:32

anyway, the point is is that

4:34

I went to look up. Is this a

4:36

real thing? Yeah, cuz we know that there

4:39

are there have been certain taunts criminals taunt.

4:42

They love taunting. Yeah, they love it I want

4:44

they love writing into a newspaper zodiac. Yeah, exactly

4:46

zodiac did that Okay, apparently

4:49

this I guess this is

4:51

a huge thing in the 70s It But

4:57

People have been leaving calling cards. I guess

5:00

the first real calling cards were Jack the

5:02

Ripper Really Jack

5:04

the Ripper left a calling. So this

5:06

is Victorian England. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes

5:08

This is fun for the listener Tell

5:10

us the history of murderers leaving calling

5:13

cards Andy Jack the Ripper is believed

5:15

to have left two calling cards by

5:17

Goulston Street Goulston Street London

5:19

on September 30th 1888

5:21

the night he murdered Elizabeth Stride and

5:23

Catherine Eddowes a scrap of Eddowes apron

5:25

and some graffiti Okay,

5:28

some authors believe the graffiti may have already

5:30

been there prior to the apron piece being

5:32

trapped and that the two should not be

5:34

linked All right, whatever. No one knows anything

5:37

about any zodiac killer the DC Beltway sniper.

5:39

Yeah left tarot cards Wow Imagine

5:41

I can't imagine pulling a crime in the first

5:43

place any kind of crime, right? the

5:45

only thing I've ever really stolen was a Ski

5:48

ball from bowler Rama when I was a teenager. I

5:50

know and you talk about it a lot Because there

5:52

was on me. I know you're haunted by that choice

5:55

Thank you wanted by that action cuz Naomi ever ever

5:57

after yep, I stole that ball

6:00

which now just what would I do with it? No,

6:02

no, what did you do with it? What was the

6:05

point? It sits on a shelf in my old room

6:07

in my parents' house. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah,

6:09

everyone who played skeeball after that had one less ball

6:11

one less ball one less ball Yeah, what does on

6:14

me and that's on you? Absolutely. Absolutely.

6:16

You have to live with your choices the

6:18

consequences of your act feel like I've made up for

6:20

it Yeah, but I feel like

6:22

I feel like I never can I feel

6:25

like I never can make over but I didn't leave You

6:28

know like a top hat right

6:31

with scrawled on the inside That's you

6:34

know, just like crazy laughter like you like of

6:36

the Joker like Comic book,

6:38

you know, I like crazy all. Yeah,

6:40

right. I didn't leave a Bunch

6:43

of wooden shoes some clogs. This is a great

6:45

example of a calling card. These are great examples

6:47

are casual What we're talking about here is the

6:50

extent to which someone could go through all the

6:52

trouble of committing a crime and then say Let's

6:54

add production value. Yeah, I mean like

6:57

let's give set dressing It's it's

6:59

a really you know, the implication that you've got that kind

7:01

of time that kind of

7:03

access to props, you know and that also That

7:07

urge to kind of be found out to be

7:09

like this is my brand you're branding the act

7:12

theatrical criminals theatrical I guess why I

7:14

didn't think they existed outside of movies

7:16

right outside of comic books or something

7:18

like that because the theatricality of it

7:21

These are criminal theater kids.

7:23

Yeah criminal theater kids

7:27

Absolutely. So in which case you got to take pity

7:29

on them You got to take pity on these theater kids who

7:31

just said I want some attention No one gave it

7:33

to me. We now got a murder more productions

7:35

of guys and dolls. We need more in

7:38

prisons We need to give Jimmy Awards to

7:40

everybody Jimmy Awards to everyone. Look,

7:43

I want to I want to abolish prisons A-cap

7:45

all that stuff. But in the meantime,

7:47

yes, we need more Nathan

7:50

Detroit's we need we

7:52

need more in Detroit. I believe that's the character

7:55

from guys and dolls. That's what oh, okay I

7:58

just knew there was a guy We

8:01

need more Brigadoons. We need more Brigadoons. I

8:03

thought you were saying you needed to do them in the

8:05

prisons. Yes, prison productions. Prison

8:08

productions of Brigadoon. Prison

8:10

productions of... Kiss

8:13

of the Spider-Man? That's a

8:15

play? It is. Andy

8:17

knows that's Alfred Molina's finest work. You'll

8:20

hear that on an upcoming

8:22

episode. You'll hear that

8:24

on a set of all the references in all the land. That

8:27

one? South Pacific! South

8:29

Pacific! Some

8:32

enchanted evening! Is that what

8:34

that's from? Yeah. Annie Who's All.

8:37

If you'd like to just hear us pop off of

8:39

the mouth about insanity, you should join our Patreon. Yes,

8:41

you should. If you love the pod, if you've

8:44

got $5 to spare, you will

8:46

get two bonus episodes a month, and it's just

8:48

me and Andy Mabel and Squeak.

8:51

At the mic, telling it like it is. You

8:53

can find out. You can sign up.

8:55

You can get info. patreon.com/Couples Therapy Pod.

8:58

Five dollars. Five dollars. There will never be any other tier.

9:00

Five dollars is one tier. We will never increase the price.

9:02

It just is what it is. Okay. It

9:05

is what it is. It is what it is. Come join us if

9:07

you'd like to support the show. It helps

9:09

us very greatly when you join the Patreon. It

9:11

means a lot to us. It really does. And

9:13

we will be having some more Zoom hangs with

9:15

the Patreon crowd soon. And we answer questions just

9:17

for the Patreon. Yeah. We

9:20

do invite questions just for the Patreon. Yeah, so just for the community. When you're

9:22

like, I got something kind of messy, I can't have it go wide. You

9:25

might want to join the Patreon. What do you think about that? You know

9:27

what I mean? Yes. This

9:29

was a great episode. Was it though? This

9:31

was a fun time. Our guest. Well, you've heard

9:33

their dulcet tones. The one, the only Jess Tong.

9:36

Hello. Jess is a writer, actor, and

9:38

comedian who we love. They've written

9:40

on Our Flag Means Death on HBO.

9:42

Love it. You've seen them in the

9:44

movie Crush on Hulu, Love Life on

9:46

HBO Max. You can see they're set

9:48

right now on the Netflix special The

9:50

Gender Agenda. Whoo. Hosted by Hannah

9:53

Gatsby. Wow. Okay. So

9:55

they're out here. Well, you'll also notice too when we're recording, and

9:57

I'm just kind of flagging it, because I know our listeners are...

10:00

They will call me in. Eagle eared. Eagle eared and

10:02

they'll call me in. Jess's

10:04

pronouns are they, he,

10:07

and so there's one, you know, we use they a

10:09

lot and then later on we're talking and I use

10:11

he and just let you know that I was not

10:14

misgendering Jess in that moment. Jess was

10:16

cool with it. But I just want you

10:18

to know because I feel like y'all will be like Naomi, what

10:20

did I hear you just say? So just know

10:22

it's all love. It's all good. Roll it. I

10:31

had a first question, but what we were waiting

10:33

for you to log on, we were on

10:35

Instagram and I lost

10:37

my fucking mind watching an animal

10:40

account where this person makes

10:43

like dog appropriate. Like it's not like

10:45

it's using human ingredients. Oh, I

10:47

know what you're about to say. Go ahead. And

10:49

they manufactured a lady in the tramp

10:52

moment with their two dogs eating a

10:54

noodle and I fucking lost my mind.

10:56

I was so angry that this person

10:58

was doing this for their dogs and

11:00

I just want I'm stating that because

11:02

that's the emotional space. Right.

11:05

That's what you're bringing that I'm in at the

11:07

moment. Right. Thank you. Thank you for setting the

11:09

stage for us. Why did the dog on dog

11:11

love upset you like this? This

11:14

is what I was trying to unpack. Well, it's

11:16

not love. It's not that's not dog on

11:18

dog. If it was if it was true,

11:20

I saw two dogs who truly did have

11:23

affection for each other. Sure. That would not

11:25

enrage me. I'm

11:27

a human being with emotion that feelings and

11:29

I feel like I'm morally

11:32

forthright. So no, that would not

11:34

bother me. You heard it here,

11:36

Andy. That is not love. A

11:40

human being forcing their dogs to

11:43

eat a noodle like a Disney cartoon

11:45

from 80 years ago. No, that's

11:47

that. You know what? That's not

11:49

love. I'm going to say that's

11:51

a corporate manufactured moment for

11:54

to consume. He doesn't Like

11:56

that. He doesn't like the creation. He

11:58

doesn't like kind of the high production.

12:00

in value rice the. Dogs are being

12:02

made to like. Yes, set a social

12:05

construct sat by people. Yes I think

12:07

that's what I that's bothering him to

12:09

that is like I did. It's like

12:11

very funny and extras. This person goes

12:13

to great lengths. To. Make these foods because

12:15

I like because it well as a good isi more

12:17

interesting is that we live in a world where he

12:20

earned. This. For a

12:22

seems like this isn't job is now making these

12:24

bills for these dogs and to be the fault

12:26

lies. And that's what I think is

12:28

that's what I find the while part to. The. Arm

12:30

my favorite. I like the kinds. of

12:33

videos where they are range artfully like raw

12:35

livers and sick and hearts and like a

12:37

duck had and like a whole rabbit for

12:39

the dog to eat that never seen those

12:41

stood out like made to look like a

12:43

dlc like this is what we're giving them

12:45

to know there are like a here is

12:47

like a rabbit had and than the dog

12:50

comes down and crunches that on a motorcycle

12:52

my com the dog so you can like

12:54

it's like as my dog eating yeah yeah

12:56

yeah yeah yeah that's the other end. Of.

12:59

The Spectrum. That's too much for me.

13:01

I don't want to be so. I.

13:03

Don't want to be so realistic. I

13:06

don't want the verisimilitude of what a

13:08

dog would actually eat. I also don't

13:10

want the art of right. You'll want

13:12

to see a wild beasts exactly at

13:14

his to be something in the middle

13:16

to see me that kibble. Know what

13:18

I would watch? If you just had

13:20

years with my dogs eating and it's

13:22

you know, some wet food from America

13:24

or whatever, I'd be happy with that

13:26

simple man with simple pleasures. as if

13:29

you use that as a simple pleasures

13:31

of life. Honestly, I'm basic in that

13:33

sense. The. Or anything grappling

13:35

with been basics in that assets. Do

13:37

you have any basic tendencies and basic

13:39

undertone? What are the basic. Things that

13:41

I love to do. I mean I'm in

13:43

an era right now where I love to

13:45

like come home, light a candle and listen

13:47

to jazz relay what's going on. the are

13:49

I'm in. I'm in my life my like

13:51

woman in her thirty's around Saturn Outsider. With

13:54

a family. Now that I have a now that

13:56

I've transitioned my body. I can fully commit to

13:58

be in a woman and my. Are we

14:03

talking smooth jazz like new agey

14:05

stuff? Are we talking like free

14:07

jazz? Are you listening to the

14:10

Bratzman 10-Tet European like craziness? What

14:12

whatever bebop? What's going on? No

14:17

Again, I'm gonna have to say that I don't

14:19

know I'm not like educated enough You'll

14:21

even truly understand that question. I have to be

14:23

honest that I think I'm going on to Spotify

14:26

and typing in jazz mix I Everybody

14:30

has to start somewhere. You do you do is it

14:32

just like a blast of noise coming out or is

14:34

it more like You

14:42

have to answer will never stop I think

14:45

I Think

14:47

I like it to be kind of sexy. I

14:50

think that I'm like, you know, it

14:52

should sound like Christmas music But it

14:54

doesn't have to be about Christmas Yes,

14:58

yes, yes, actually do giving

15:00

Nat King Cole Christmas Album,

15:03

but it doesn't have to be about Our

15:06

babe the Lord you saying that

15:08

I can exactly picture you with a glass of

15:10

wine in one hand In

15:13

a bubble bath. I'm like, I know now I

15:15

know exactly what you're talking about. It's a joint

15:17

usually Real

15:20

a real jazz kind of indulgence. Yeah,

15:23

that's the 21st century So,

15:25

okay. This is the actual question that I had

15:27

I Because

15:29

this show is the twin

15:32

pillars as I say all the time

15:34

our therapy and relationships It's a twin

15:36

hours the twin towers As

15:39

relationship perhaps this episode. Nope. Don't do it.

15:41

Yep. Let it go metaphor go. Let it

15:43

go Are you sick after doing your show?

15:46

For so long are you sick of talking

15:48

about this stuff? I think that I'm sick

15:50

of kind of like the basic questions people

15:53

are asking me like I was getting asked

15:55

over and over and over Again, like what

15:57

is it like to talk about relationships on

15:59

stage? Well, we

16:01

would ask that. What's it like? What's it like?

16:03

Yeah, what is it like? And I'm like, that's

16:05

pretty cool. I don't know. What is it like?

16:09

I feel like that's what a comedian does as we

16:11

get up and we go, well, dating is hard. I

16:14

was like, what do

16:16

you mean? Like, I'm not... this

16:18

is not the first time you've

16:20

ever... I didn't invent the concept

16:22

of like love. Right, right, right.

16:24

I'm flattered. I'm so flattered. But

16:26

like, I have to say, I think a lot of

16:29

art is about love and relationships and I'm probably

16:31

just kind of in

16:33

that legacy. I can understand asking that question

16:35

to Mark Twain over 100 years ago.

16:38

Perhaps the world's first stand up.

16:41

But asking a human being in the

16:44

21st century, what's it like talking about that

16:46

I'd say? It's just like, I don't like...

16:48

have you understood the... Have

16:51

you understood live performance in the last 150

16:53

years? Right, right. Or like

16:55

this era that we're in where everything we

16:57

do is everybody's business. I was like, if

16:59

anything, I'm being rather withholding up here. Exactly.

17:02

Well... Like, you can find out more about

17:04

me on Instagram, close friends. Well,

17:08

it is interesting. So, you know, we did not

17:10

get a chance to see your show, which I'm

17:12

so sad about. I think that's what I miss the

17:14

most about being in New York is like how many

17:16

shows are up and how or not going into large

17:18

crowds. Well, that too,

17:20

but I also think that like there are very

17:23

few shows here in Los Angeles where I'm like,

17:25

I gotta go see that. Whereas I noticed when

17:27

I'm seeing people post about shows in New York,

17:29

I'm like, I wish I could go in there.

17:31

I wish I could see that. Well, there's a

17:33

whole live performance culture here that I feel like

17:35

is really different from in LA. Yeah, definitely. But

17:38

I guess my question is sort of like, I think

17:40

of you as somebody who is so... Watch

17:42

out, you're about to get nailed. I

17:44

can't wait. I can't wait. I love to be perceived.

17:47

That's not a joke. My favorite

17:49

thing, literally, is people

17:51

telling me about myself. Go ahead. Well,

17:54

is it right? Because I think, you know, I knew you

17:56

when you were starting up and stand up. So

17:59

I feel like I've seen... over years, right?

18:01

I've been perceiving. I've been perceiving you for

18:03

years. For a long time. And so I

18:06

perceive a very

18:09

controlled person

18:11

on stage, which is what you said about being

18:13

withholding up here, because I'm like, you

18:16

come in with your jokes and your material and you

18:18

are very much like, this is my

18:20

time, I am going to take it up

18:22

here and we are actually

18:24

not going to go back and forth on this. Oh!

18:28

Like, am I wrong? No, that's totally

18:30

true. No, that's totally true. That's totally

18:32

true. But it's because Naomi, it's because

18:34

I'm afraid of the audience. And

18:37

I'm afraid of you. So

18:40

the decision to kind of get into

18:42

it more so than you would have

18:44

normally. Like, your long show, less lonely

18:46

versus sort of like what you have been doing

18:48

before. Mm-hmm. Are you

18:50

still afraid? Are you still afraid? I mean,

18:53

what was crazy about doing the less lonely

18:55

run off-Broadway is that I think that in

18:57

my mind, I was like, oh, it's a

18:59

theater, it's a theater show, the

19:02

audiences will be well behaved. And

19:05

they were not. No,

19:08

like literally, like people getting up to

19:10

use the bathroom three times in an

19:12

hour-long show, like people putting their feet

19:14

on the stage, people putting their programs,

19:16

like putting their bag on the stage,

19:19

and then me having

19:21

to, being forced

19:23

to break the fourth wall with them, but

19:25

then also they weren't expecting it because

19:27

it was a theater. And

19:30

they were like, oh my god, like you can

19:32

see me? And I would be like, yeah, bitch,

19:34

your phone is ringing. Like, can you please answer

19:38

it? Or like go

19:40

on airplane mode or something? Because like I

19:42

actually am real here. And I think

19:44

people think, you know, in a theater,

19:46

like they think in a comedy club, the

19:49

comic is gonna talk to you and is gonna

19:51

ask you about your life. They think in a

19:53

theater, they're coming there to watch TV and they can do

19:55

whatever they want. So

19:58

I was constantly straddling. this weird

20:00

line of being like a camacomic like

20:03

I need to talk to you and I need to acknowledge

20:05

what's happening in the room while

20:07

also being like I have a literal show

20:10

with a three act narrative arc that I

20:12

must get through and we actually can't stop

20:14

and talk about this right now. Uh

20:17

huh. Wait, wait, hold on. How else

20:19

are you going to make TikToks if you

20:21

don't get to have this? My TikTok

20:23

game is bad. My TikTok game

20:25

is bad. I just have this haircut. I'm not.

20:28

I'm a millennial, you know, I'm not. I'm

20:31

Asian. I wear sunscreen every day. I'm

20:34

not that young and I'm not that

20:36

good. I'm a Facebook era millennial. So

20:39

I'm not good at adjusting

20:41

the current environment. You

20:43

are a millennial, but you are also

20:46

giving us young hip cool. I

20:48

am, but it's a farce. It's

20:50

an act. It's

20:52

a brand. And I'm pulling

20:54

it out. It's working. But the

20:57

second somebody is like, what's your TikTok? I'm

20:59

like, no, like I can't, I get the spins when

21:01

I go on TikTok. So

21:03

wait, I get the vapors. Doing

21:06

the show, did you come to any kind

21:09

of like romantic conclusions about yourself through

21:11

the show or did you kind of already have

21:13

that figured out going into it? Oh God. What

21:16

if I came in and was like, yes, I

21:18

figured everything out. I'm fully enlightened person. I

21:24

actually feel so comfortable and happy

21:27

in every moment. Well,

21:29

you would not exist in the 21st century. I mean,

21:32

not to spoil my show, but

21:35

sort of the narrative arc is

21:37

about like me, my whole life

21:41

being so obsessed with like falling

21:43

in love and

21:45

being in love and like also like, oh, the world

21:47

is ending and I need to find my great love

21:49

at the end of the world. And

21:52

then suddenly because of all these external

21:55

things happening, you know, like COVID,

21:57

like just big things happening in the world.

22:00

big things happening in my own life, you

22:02

know, medically transitioning my body, changing

22:04

the way I'm perceived, changing the way like

22:06

I relate to people. By

22:09

the end, I'm sort of like, Oh, I

22:11

don't have to be obsessed with like looking for

22:13

love in a relationship. I have to like, look

22:16

at the love that's in my life, man,

22:19

look around to me and appreciate

22:21

what I have. Yeah. So that

22:23

was the that was

22:25

the I was about to say fictional

22:27

conclusion. But that was the kind of

22:29

the performative conclusion. How do I add

22:32

this? Well, have you actually applied that

22:34

to your actual life? I'm just out

22:36

in these streets, Andy. I'm just I

22:38

am actually like really I mean, these

22:40

days, like, my life

22:43

has changed a lot in the past year. And

22:45

even just in the past six months, my

22:47

life has really changed a lot

22:49

in a lot of different ways, personal

22:52

and professional. Um, and

22:54

I travel a lot like in the past year, I

22:57

would come home for like five days at a

23:00

time to my apartment in Brooklyn. Oh,

23:02

no, I was gonna say we were supposed to record this.

23:04

And then Jess was like, Hey, we

23:06

were supposed to record this weeks ago. And then you

23:09

sent us an email like the day before you're like,

23:11

Hey, I got to go to the country quick. And

23:13

I'm not sure when I'm going to come back. And

23:15

then a couple days later, we see you on Instagram

23:17

with Elliot at like a fashion mallon.

23:20

I was I was at

23:22

Milan Fashion Week. Suddenly.

23:25

Yeah. And I'm sorry, I had to cancel last

23:27

minute like that. I didn't know

23:30

that. They were they looked at each other were like,

23:32

Yes, this is a reason you cancel. This is a

23:34

good reason. But I was also like, I was like,

23:36

What is their life? What are they doing? Yeah,

23:39

like they did like I have to go

23:41

out of the country and I don't know

23:43

when I'll be back. It's like not knowing

23:46

when you'll be back, which is like very

23:48

like power move. It is very power move.

23:50

And it's also like somebody else

23:52

bought these plane tickets. And I

23:55

am at the total behest of

23:57

somebody else's choices. I'm

24:00

happy to be there. I'm happy to be along for the ride, but

24:02

I'm like, I don't know where I am right now Or

24:06

like things like, you know I I went home

24:08

to San Francisco for a week and then at

24:10

the end of the week I had us have

24:12

sketch fast and then the very next day I

24:14

had to fly to DC to open for Mateo

24:16

at like Kennedy Center But it all came together

24:18

like that Like

24:21

lineup came together in the last moment. Yeah.

24:23

Yeah. Yeah. So what I'm really trying to

24:25

say is like I'm

24:27

just trying to catch my

24:29

own breath and like Figure

24:32

out, you know one year ago. I my

24:35

life was not like this and

24:37

I was hanging out at home and Smoking

24:40

a bunch of weed And now

24:42

I'm trying to be like, okay

24:44

when I'm home Right now I'm

24:46

home for a month Before I

24:48

leave again, which is a long time at this

24:51

point Mm-hmm, and I'm trying to be

24:53

like, you know, who do I want to see like

24:55

who do I want to spend time with and Like

24:58

who who are the people I'm trying to fill

25:00

my life with like when I have these opportunities

25:03

So I guess that's the conclusion I've

25:05

come to but like when did you

25:07

stop looking for an Armageddon

25:10

boo, like when was what was

25:12

them? What was when when

25:14

did I accept that I could die alone?

25:16

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Honestly

25:19

after my last relationship ended which

25:21

was two years ago And

25:24

I have been Like serial

25:26

relationship person not a serial monogamous because I've dated

25:28

a lot of different styles and often would do

25:30

like the exact opposite From what I had done

25:32

the last time. So I was like that didn't

25:35

work. Let me try this But

25:37

after my last relationship ended almost exactly

25:39

two years ago. I was like, I

25:42

think I need to take a long time to

25:44

just really figure out What's

25:47

going on with me? And Then

25:50

like when it feels right I'll try

25:52

like dating again and like so far

25:54

it's been two years and I haven't

25:56

hit that point Okay, when you okay,

25:58

but yes, so what? feels right. What

26:01

does it mean to feel right to

26:03

you? I think that I spent a lot

26:05

of time in my dating life in the

26:08

past, not so much

26:10

like actually dating as

26:12

much as casting for a

26:15

partner. Oh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah.

26:18

I get that. The idea of like, this person should be the

26:21

right person for me, or this is the kind of

26:23

person I should be with. Yes, yes. And I had

26:25

this like image in my mind at the time of

26:28

like the perfect partner for me. I was like

26:31

tall, slightly older, beautiful woman

26:33

with long dark hair, slaps

26:35

me in the face. And

26:39

I had like multiple iterations

26:41

of that. Mm-hmm. And...

26:44

Metaphorically slaps you or literally? No, no,

26:46

no, literally. Literally slapping. I would never

26:48

joke about this. I would never be

26:50

joking. Fair enough. And

26:55

it just, I

26:58

don't know, I like looked back at everything

27:00

after everything was said and done and was

27:02

like, oh, did I like, were any of

27:04

those people like right for me? Like in

27:06

my real heart, did I

27:08

like really, really, really like them? Or

27:12

what? And like, I

27:15

don't know, looking back, I'm like, oh, there are so

27:17

many people where like I could see red flags, like

27:19

the first time we ever hung out. Like

27:22

the first moment we ever hung out, I was like,

27:24

this is a big problem. And then, you know, three

27:26

years later, we would break up for like that

27:29

reason. Yeah. Um, so

27:32

now I'm trying to literally be like, what would it be

27:34

like if I just chilled and then

27:36

waited until I like actually liked someone

27:39

and they like liked me back and

27:41

then we like tried to like go

27:43

on a date, which I actually think

27:45

maybe I've never done before ever in

27:47

my life. Wow. Okay. Which is

27:49

kind of crazy. Yeah. So it was this idea,

27:51

basically you would see somebody that was like, okay,

27:53

oh, you fit the part, you're the vibe. And

27:55

then you would basically try to make that happen.

27:58

Yes, literally. And ignoring

28:01

huge boundaries that I had

28:03

even set for myself, my

28:05

last relationship, I mean this is all in the

28:08

show, I talk more about this, but she

28:10

was a queer gynecologist.

28:14

And I saw that on, we matched on

28:16

Tinder, and that was in her profile. And

28:19

I literally, literally was like, oh

28:21

I have to date this gynecologist.

28:25

Just because of that. Aha. I

28:28

feel like I liked, there were many other reasons

28:30

that I really liked her that we got into

28:32

a relationship. But from the first moment before I

28:34

ever knew her, I just knew this kind of

28:36

scintillating thing about her and I thought she was

28:38

really hot. I was like, I have to date

28:40

this person. And that's not right. Uh huh. Yeah.

28:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not right. I should have been like,

28:45

that seems cool, let me go on a date and then see if I like her. But

28:48

instead, I went into the date being like,

28:50

this is gonna be something

28:52

really big for me. Oh, I

28:55

get it. I do the same thing with

28:57

buying shirts. I will. I

28:59

will. What shirt are you wearing right now? Oh,

29:02

this is Victoria Varke. She

29:04

is an indie rock musician that I really like. It's

29:06

all a lot of indie rock shirts. But

29:09

I mean more like. I'm wearing a shirt

29:11

with this dog on it. Oh, that's nice.

29:13

That's a great shirt. Like

29:15

less t-shirts and more, you know, I

29:18

need a button up shirt. I'll go to H&M

29:20

or something like that. And it'll be like, I

29:22

need a new button up shirt. I

29:25

will force even though there's, I

29:27

won't find one that's any good, but I'll

29:29

be like, well, this one I need one. The

29:32

need is the thing that

29:34

forces that forces the rest

29:37

of reality into itself. The

29:39

need is like a cookie cutter

29:42

and reality is the dough. And I will

29:44

force the dough even though there's all this

29:46

extra stuff left over on the outside of

29:49

the cookie cutter. Right. Right. And

29:52

this stuff was my ex girlfriend's

29:54

serious partner that I. And

30:00

in being like the next person I

30:02

date, I don't want to have an

30:04

established partner. And then instead I was

30:06

like, actually, it's worth it to date

30:08

a gynecologist. Was

30:10

it just the fact that like, oh, well, they've studied?

30:13

Like, what is it? Like what was the

30:16

attraction? Was it the medical degree? I

30:18

just thought, I mean, I do love an expert. And

30:21

classically, I've loved a female expert, although I

30:23

do think my tastes are different now. But

30:27

this is also, I wonder if you guys relate

30:29

to this as comics. I'm having to learn to

30:31

not do stuff just for the bit. Uh-huh.

30:34

That's the other thing I can ask for. Just because I

30:36

think it's so funny. Yes. Yes, yes. That

30:38

I was like, what if, what

30:40

if on Tinder I matched with

30:43

a queer gynecologist? Right, right, right,

30:45

right. You think of something like,

30:47

even if it's not even fully

30:49

for stage, the extent to which

30:51

you will go into things going, there's a story here.

30:54

Exactly. I mean, it's not for the full on, like,

30:56

can't wait to talk about this on stage more so

30:58

I'm like, yeah, let's see where this goes. This is

31:00

nuts. Right. In the

31:02

story of my life, like, this is a plot point.

31:05

And I'm trying to be like, no, no, no. I'm

31:09

like an individual person with wants and

31:11

needs. And like, what do I actually want

31:14

to do? And not just

31:16

like, this is an amazing second turn

31:18

twist. Like. Honestly,

31:21

sometimes I'm like, I need to start creating more stories

31:23

because, honey, I'm boring as hell. Like, so let's

31:25

talk about the time I was on the couch

31:28

playing garden scapes. It's like, no, that's not

31:30

a bit. That's not a set. I have

31:32

no material, Jess. So in a way, you

31:34

need to get out in these streets. I

31:37

need to. No, hold on. Hold on. Crazy

31:39

things to happen. They do craziness is in

31:42

these. Wait, can I share a story from the

31:44

show? Absolutely. Okay.

31:46

So on it was the Wednesday of the

31:48

final week of the show. I

31:51

come out on stage as I

31:54

always do and immediately in the front row is

31:56

this, this guy I've hooked up with twice.

31:59

Oh, Lord. Um, the sort

32:01

of spark notes on my life is that now I hook up

32:03

with gay guys. Um, but yeah,

32:05

so that's where I'm at now. Yeah, I

32:07

don't know. I don't know who knows what

32:10

about the stuff I'm getting up to. Oh

32:13

yeah, I don't know. I don't know the T. I

32:15

just, you know, I know what I see on socials.

32:17

And you know, you always make me lay off if

32:19

I ever am not too scared to go on Twitter.

32:21

And think what is happening there. No, and you should

32:24

be scared. And so, but okay.

32:26

Okay, so just because it's Nazis and

32:28

bots, why is that? Nazis

32:30

and porn bots? What's the problem with that? It's

32:33

an amazing combination, um, together.

32:37

Yeah, but I, my thing is I hook up with

32:39

gay guys now. I went from being like a kind

32:41

of gold star lesbian type to

32:43

like, now I just have sex

32:45

with strange men. Is that from

32:48

since you transitioned? Or was that from?

32:50

It is, yeah. Yeah. And that's

32:52

like, yeah, that's like act three of the show. Oh

32:55

my God, I love the turns. I love the turn. But,

32:57

um, so there was

32:59

this guy who literally he was

33:01

like the last guy I had hooked up

33:03

with. Like we had hooked up like five

33:06

days before. Oh, like twice. So recent. Okay.

33:08

Recent. And I didn't know anything about him.

33:11

I didn't know his name. Like I don't

33:13

have his phone number. I did not know anything

33:15

about him. And actually I'm so reverse racist that

33:17

for the first like 15 minutes, I was like,

33:19

maybe it's not him. Maybe

33:23

it's just another white guy with glasses. But

33:27

it was him for sure. And then afterwards

33:30

he had actually like hit me up on Grindr

33:32

earlier that evening being like, what are you doing

33:34

later? Later tonight came saw

33:36

the show. He told,

33:39

I don't know how true this is, but he told

33:41

me he wasn't expecting it to be me either. Like

33:43

he had been invited by a friend. Okay.

33:46

And then I like walked out. I

33:48

don't know, but that's what he said. But I

33:50

invited him over. I immediately grilled him about his life

33:52

because I was like, Oh, that's not fair. And

33:58

I was like, I hope you know, like this is not.

34:00

me like really truly wanting to get

34:02

to know like your heart but me

34:04

trying to write a

34:06

wrong that has happened. Right, right, right.

34:08

Even scales. I mean, even. Yes, yes.

34:11

Which is that now you've seen this

34:13

like raw vulnerable part of

34:15

me that I have

34:17

not consented to you seeing. Right. When like

34:19

previously I probably gave him a fake name.

34:21

Like I don't. Yeah, yeah. And

34:23

now he's like hearing the story of like my

34:25

grandma died. Anyway. And then later

34:28

my friend Kyle

34:30

interviewed me. He's a amazing critic

34:32

came to interview me about the

34:34

show for Interview magazine. Kyle is

34:37

also a little Asian twink and

34:40

we determined while

34:42

doing this interview that

34:44

we have both hooked up with the same

34:46

guy. Okay, so this white boy with glasses

34:48

is a tie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But

34:51

I have to tell you that in the

34:53

gay world like that's like very common. This

34:55

is something I've learned is like any of

34:57

my friends who are kind of like a

35:00

little like skinny like you know tan to

35:02

brownish pretty boy type

35:04

person. We've all hooked up with

35:06

the same white man. Yeah. I

35:08

remember that when this was

35:10

a live shows

35:13

Joel and Brendan Scannell, Joel Kim

35:15

Booster and Brendan Scannell talking about

35:18

the numerous overlaps.

35:20

And they're like, Absolutely. Yeah,

35:23

yeah, yeah. That's so funny. You're right. Joel I'm sure

35:25

could talk about this for now.

35:29

But wait, here's my question. Hooking

35:31

up with strange men as

35:34

someone who knows how

35:39

dangerous men are. How

35:41

has that been? Do you know what I'm kind of asking

35:43

you know? Absolutely. I

35:46

do. Absolutely. This is

35:48

a new experience. No, especially because you know I had never

35:50

done it before. Yeah, literally never.

35:52

And I always was

35:54

afraid before like the thing I always

35:56

used to say was like, Yeah, like I'm like attracted

35:59

to men but like The attraction

36:01

does not eclipse the fear. Yeah.

36:03

Yeah, and then

36:05

it was kind of just you know the

36:09

the planets moved and The

36:12

eclipse went to the other side And

36:15

now yeah, just the

36:18

the vicious horniness Has

36:21

made it so I no longer fear death and I'm

36:24

sort of like well Part

36:26

of the game part of the game of life You

36:29

live you die You

36:32

enjoy every moment that is the balance

36:35

in all humans right horniness versus fear

36:37

and which one is greater at

36:39

any moment Determines your future

36:41

right right right right right right

36:43

I also feel that like when I

36:45

was more I mean even though

36:47

you know I Naomi you you met

36:49

me when I was like literally starting

36:51

out in New York like Ten

36:54

years ago. Yeah, I hadn't

36:56

like medically transitioned But I've always been

36:58

some kind of gender non-conforming I was oh

37:00

I had already been going by they pronouns

37:02

for a long time at the time that

37:04

we met each other But

37:07

when I was more embodied as like what

37:09

people would read as a woman I Felt

37:13

a lot more scared about the idea of interacting with

37:15

men like I think that being like a woman to

37:17

a man is very

37:20

brave Yeah,

37:23

literally and like once I

37:25

sort of was like oh I kind of can

37:27

I Think all of these

37:29

labels are sort of tenuous, but like oh I can kind

37:31

of approach these men as a man I

37:34

wasn't scared and I was like okay. Yeah,

37:37

just gays like also their gays not

37:39

the gays can't kill they can Yeah,

37:42

yes, they can I saw that Dom or billboard.

37:44

I didn't see the show but

37:48

It's just not like I did have the fear

37:50

and then it was like guys would come over to

37:52

my house And I would be like oh you're a gay guy. You

37:54

know I was like you can't hurt me. You're a

37:56

gay guy Interesting

38:00

though, because obviously it's like again, especially because you talked

38:02

about you're like, I love to be perceived but how the extent

38:04

to which right There's how you

38:06

are perceived and then the extent to which how

38:08

you're perceived Changes how

38:10

you internally feel totally and

38:12

can do something like removing Fear

38:15

and I and if fear sounds big and broad, but it's

38:18

like, you know, I think a lot like if

38:20

you are apprehension anxiety Yeah

38:22

Anxiety the sense like that this person

38:24

the sense that okay this person or

38:26

this group is My

38:29

adversary in some way and

38:31

I say that even you know

38:33

historical adversary historical adversary there were

38:36

called historical Yeah,

38:39

like that's the vibe because I mean I even still feel

38:41

that way where I'm like, I

38:43

don't trust men I love one,

38:46

but I'll be trusting them as

38:48

a whole to be totally clear

38:50

I still have a great fear

38:52

of straight men like yeah, that

38:54

hasn't gone away. Okay, huh? Why?

38:58

Can you tell us a little more about that? What

39:08

about the last hundred thousand I take I

39:10

take on the bridge So

39:15

wait, do you think you have in

39:18

this both relax period and this new

39:20

not newfound But like in the last

39:22

couple years attraction to men Have

39:25

you found any kind of feelings of

39:27

love yet? Or is it all just

39:29

like we're we're gonna furious horniness. Yes

39:32

what I'm calling it furious. It's honestly

39:34

pretty furious And

39:37

I do know like this is something

39:39

that afflicts the this

39:41

gay man community also So

39:44

it's a little hard because on one hand I'm sort

39:46

of like well I kind of just joined like I

39:49

kind of just joined the herd I kind of just

39:51

started doing what they do and then

39:53

I also look around and I see like lots of friends

39:55

like and Beloved smart

39:57

good-looking charismatic people who

40:00

are gay men who have like never been

40:02

in a relationship or have only

40:04

been in like one relationship in their life

40:06

just because like community wise I think they're

40:09

kind of they're trying to figure stuff out. But

40:13

I'm really just trying to wait. I'm

40:16

trying to trust and to wait that

40:19

like at some point, I

40:21

will just meet somebody that I

40:23

like who likes me back. And

40:26

I don't know what context that'll be. Maybe

40:28

it will be like off a random hookup.

40:30

Sometimes that happens. Or maybe it'll be out

40:32

in the world. But I'm literally like I'm

40:34

not looking. Yeah, I used to go out.

40:37

Like, I remember I would

40:39

go out every night I went out, I would

40:41

be like, maybe tonight, maybe tonight is the night

40:43

that I love of my life. And

40:46

I'm like, yeah, no, no. Yeah, yeah,

40:48

yeah. Let's just go and

40:50

have fun with our friends and

40:53

not be like scamming all the time.

40:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What? Yeah, who's your

40:57

therapist right now? Do you like them? I do.

40:59

I do. I do. I do. Do I seem

41:01

like I'm in therapy? Well, I mean, you've always

41:03

seemed like you were in therapy. Oh, that's so

41:05

you have the language. You have the tools. You

41:07

know, I mean, like a self aware. I just went to women's

41:10

college. Oh,

41:12

you never know. By the way, you're

41:14

on a roller coaster

41:16

ride of horniness that as

41:19

far as I can understand, I'm older than you.

41:21

Never ends. It's

41:24

a curse. I'm not I'm saying this

41:26

as as as

41:29

your future. It is it is not a when

41:32

I was a teenager, I was like, is this ever gonna

41:35

end? When does this end? When

41:37

do I have peace? I'm

41:41

just warning. I have been really

41:43

grappling with lately this like

41:45

realization that this

41:48

is not exactly what you're talking about. But it reminds

41:50

me of this, that like, on

41:53

a professional level, you you

41:55

you never like make it like you

41:57

always have to hustle like your whole

42:00

entire life. What I've been,

42:03

something I've been really into in the past couple

42:05

of days is watching like pop stars documentaries. I'm

42:07

really into pop stars right now. I watched Jennifer

42:10

Lopez. This is me now last night. I loved

42:12

it, by the way. I loved it. If JLo

42:14

is listening, if she listens to what people say

42:16

to her about her

42:18

on podcast. I

42:21

love this has been out. Have any words

42:23

of criticism? But not today.

42:25

Not today. Not on

42:27

QuickTime. But like watching fucking

42:35

Lady Gaga be

42:37

like, I just really

42:39

struggle with like wanting to be good

42:41

enough and like wanting to make something

42:43

that's good enough for

42:46

fucking like Joanne. I was

42:48

like, yeah,

42:50

fuck. Okay, if Lady Gaga feels

42:52

like this, then

42:55

I have to expect I have to accept

42:57

that like I might always feel like that

42:59

or I have to like do something about

43:01

that feeling. Yeah. In myself, rather

43:04

than like what's externally happening

43:06

around me. Yeah. Yeah. Because

43:08

I guess apparently no level of external validation

43:11

will ever fix that for me, which is

43:13

no, that's the thing.

43:15

Grappling with the void is pretty

43:18

much if you are in this line of work.

43:20

I mean, I think probably most people have

43:22

to deal with it in some level, but most

43:24

people don't have a constant

43:27

possibility of external adulation coming at them.

43:29

Right. Right. Even if they don't have

43:31

it, it's the possibility we all grapple

43:33

with. And so you can maybe sometimes

43:35

fill in the void a little bit

43:37

here and there, but the

43:40

void never, it always widens. It

43:42

never shrinks. And so the

43:44

goal is trying to figure out what

43:46

to do. It's always just a higher

43:48

height you could fall from. Exactly. Exactly.

43:50

And like, it's funny because I've been thinking a

43:53

lot of like, what are the things that actually bring me like

43:55

joy separate from all of that

43:57

other stuff. And the only thing I can think of is like. Garden

44:00

scapes Actually, no,

44:02

okay, cuz you only get five lives at a time

44:04

and then when I run out I'm back to zero

44:06

Okay, what I was gonna say Was

44:09

like when Andy and I are just like

44:11

sitting on the couch watching something bad Yeah,

44:14

like talking shit about it together that really

44:16

like feeds my soul Yeah, and then when

44:18

I'm with my animals like when the cat

44:20

sits on my lap You know what? I'm

44:23

sitting there and the cat has chosen me

44:25

just mm-hmm. That's special. That's special That's special

44:27

for me to be chosen in that way

44:30

and like those are things where I go it

44:32

doesn't matter what happens What like whether I've booked

44:34

it or not to whatever's happening where I'm like

44:36

those are like the things that are like unabashedly

44:40

simply like filling to the

44:42

soul and like I'm trying

44:44

to like In the

44:46

moments recognize that that's what's happening Do you know

44:48

I mean because I get very caught up totally

44:50

like oh, I didn't get anything done or I'm

44:52

not doing enough Now I'm

44:54

especially because I do feel like I'm

44:57

somebody who I just I just don't think I

44:59

have that inherent hustle in me I need more

45:01

sleep than some of my more successful

45:03

peers. I need no nice. That's healthy

45:06

Maybe but then I'm like these

45:08

people are out here having things and doing sure

45:11

So I don't know but I'm like, I don't

45:13

know. I'm I'm in this moment right now where

45:15

I'm glad you said that because I'm

45:18

trying to learn What are

45:20

the things for me? When

45:22

I'm not flinging my body through space, you know

45:25

when I'm not flinging myself to

45:27

Milan and Lisbon and London and what LA

45:29

and whatever like when I'm Back

45:33

or when I have time with myself

45:36

Which a lot of you know that travel to as

45:39

a comic is very solitary Mm-hmm What

45:41

are the things that are gonna bring

45:43

me peace and like fill me up

45:45

like outside of like me being like

45:47

I went to Gucci Reopening

45:50

party and so I'm worth something like

45:52

right right right. Yeah Well, but I

45:54

had a picture in front of the Gucci

45:56

sign that must be like I must

46:00

be worthy of this life. Well,

46:03

the question you guys have to ask yourselves,

46:05

and this is not really me because

46:07

I'm not as front

46:09

facing as either of you, is what

46:12

do you actually want? Do you want fame? Is

46:14

fame the thing you want? And

46:16

if so, why? Or

46:20

is it that you want to make the things

46:22

you want to make? And

46:24

maybe fame, the answer is that fame

46:26

is a vehicle for that. So

46:28

I don't see a lot of our peers, I

46:31

don't see them getting

46:34

fame and then creating great

46:36

art necessarily. They have careers

46:38

then. Right. It's not

46:40

like causal necessarily. Yeah, it's not causal.

46:43

But if the thing is just fame

46:45

itself, then that's I think

46:47

the thing to

46:49

interrogate within yourself because I have

46:51

not, famous people that

46:54

I know don't seem

46:56

happy necessarily. No, I mean, this

46:59

is something I'm really grappling with

47:01

currently in the current day is

47:04

I actually do think I've

47:06

spent my whole life literally

47:08

chasing fame. I think that was

47:10

the articulation of

47:12

the dream. And

47:15

now I'm starting to, I mean,

47:19

just like I have friends who are famous,

47:21

I have friends who are really, really famous

47:24

at this point. And spending a lot of

47:26

time with Elliot, seeing what it's like in

47:28

his life, seeing what it's like

47:35

for all these other people being invited

47:38

into these spaces and being like, oh, this

47:40

stuff sort of sucks. Being

47:43

in the penthouse of the Chateau

47:45

Marmont and they're serving pizza and

47:47

cannolis. And I'm like, pizza and cannolis?

47:49

Paris Hilton is here. She

47:51

can't eat that. I'm

47:54

like, they serve Paris Hilton pizza and cannolis.

47:56

You know, literally being like, oh, this is what's

47:58

happening on the other side. of the veil and

48:01

it's like yeah it's not

48:03

that cool um and

48:06

i'm sort of like is it i

48:10

don't think this is literally materially possible but

48:12

i'm at a moment where i'm

48:14

like do i want like recognition

48:17

but not necessarily fame but

48:20

i don't think that's i don't think you have

48:22

one without the other necessarily right right right

48:24

right right right yep i

48:26

think what i i think what i'm chasing what i want and

48:28

this is why i'm like what i want is

48:31

the ability to control my

48:33

own trajectory absolutely and make the things i want

48:35

to make but i think the ability to get

48:38

that control is like i have to have some i

48:40

have to have had some sort of success

48:42

that will let people let me

48:45

do what i want to do i just like i think

48:47

i'm at that point and so it's like that frustrating thing

48:49

where i'm like well i do try my best to put

48:51

the stuff out there but you know you can you can't

48:54

control what makes you famous you can't control the thing that

48:56

hits and how that happens at all like

48:58

everybody like you get lucky in that whatever

49:00

you've done um comes

49:03

out at a time when people are most

49:05

receptive to it and you can't control that

49:07

part at all but

49:09

i'm like i think that's what i want like it's funny because

49:11

it's like i'm never somebody where i'm like i don't want people

49:13

to tell people what to do i don't want people to like

49:15

be afraid of me i don't want that i just

49:17

literally i'm like hey can i do this thing and

49:19

i just want somebody to say yes and stop working

49:21

my goddamn nerves just stop

49:23

fucking making me jump totally totally and

49:28

trust that you can do something good or even if it's

49:30

not that good it's like yeah yeah that's

49:32

what you wanted to do because i because i keep getting

49:34

into spaces that i keep being like okay i'm gonna learn

49:36

from this i'm gonna learn from this or like i'm gonna be with

49:38

this space and be like this is where i'm gonna kind of get

49:40

it and what i actually think i've gotten now

49:42

is i'm like oh i'm just as good

49:44

as anybody else absolutely i just

49:47

haven't been bequeathed you

49:50

know the opportunity to

49:52

take it there and like i feel like i've finally gotten that now

49:54

which i think is good for me i don't know if you know

49:56

that andy like i finally feeling like you know what i'm Very

49:59

happy I was. Kind know what

50:01

I need to know because I've been tell you

50:03

that support for a similar a decade assists I

50:05

just I just did not. I kept feeling well

50:07

I must be missing something or else I don't

50:09

have the thing or am I missing missing something

50:12

or else I would have be something I knowledge.

50:14

yes I'm missing something. The knowledge s If you

50:16

could just grab the idle at the beginning of

50:18

Raiders of the Lost Ark and get out before

50:20

the bear smashes you, then yes you know. Then.

50:23

I'll be in a movie with J Lo

50:25

success which is all it would have. Others

50:27

and a girl from my. Acting classes

50:29

in that movie which halo really

50:32

literally literally she's one is a

50:34

Los Friends. While I was

50:36

like that for her ssssss, other

50:38

for her? Yeah, yeah, but. I'm just

50:40

like all that you know so but like like look at the

50:42

but this is think because. I thought I think about

50:45

fame. Like. Was it's just like what

50:47

happened. I was having a moment. And

50:49

what happens? Tmz digs up some dirt

50:51

on. Her: I know, I know and I say

50:53

I'm on a lot. Of podcast man a

50:55

lot of say that I don't remember

50:58

what I said I don't remember are

51:00

not. Very happy for I would double that

51:02

does not look fun to have to do. A

51:04

Now you have to like. Go. In a

51:06

policy like you have like a hundred

51:08

slow as at our now you have

51:10

to go apologize to A and now

51:13

jail is saying that you showed up

51:15

tearfully and her green room night light

51:17

of that. none of that stuff of

51:19

which I endorsed by the way things

51:21

nj law but I have a up

51:23

a place that does that doesn't like

51:25

in order to what a to make.

51:28

The. Things I wanna make. That.

51:30

Part does Not Look font that does not

51:32

look like an enjoyable. Thing.

51:34

To byproduct arrives right, Is it a worthwhile

51:36

tax to have to pay. That's the

51:38

know. I think it's hard and like hearing

51:41

the whole you know I'm. You. Know

51:43

Tina Fey or less culture He says

51:45

yes, I'm. Telling. Bolland

51:47

though and can't say what he really feels about

51:49

Saltburn. And I was like

51:51

fuck Abbott and Target about Thalberg

51:53

process. I thought. I won't set

51:56

up without. Saw productive snowy owl and

51:58

I was there. was very com. selling

52:00

for positive and negative reasons, which

52:03

I won't say here. I

52:09

do see how

52:11

parts of your world can get bigger and

52:13

parts get smaller. Yes, absolutely.

52:17

You suddenly have access to things you

52:19

never had, it seems, but at the

52:21

same time, those you

52:24

trust become smaller and smaller. Totally. You go through

52:26

these spaces, but then you're like, can

52:28

I even relax once I'm in there? No,

52:32

I literally was saying

52:35

to my therapist, and I mean, this is so

52:37

whatever. I've

52:40

just been doing some kind of cool stuff

52:42

for the past couple of months. I'm not even

52:44

really, I don't have some big thing in the

52:46

can right now. But you're behind the veil, as

52:48

you said. You're seeing inside this stuff. I am.

52:51

And I'm noticing literally

52:55

people coming out of the woodwork to

52:58

start to talk to me,

53:00

where I'm like, five years

53:02

ago, we knew each

53:04

other, but you were not coming

53:06

to me like this. Not

53:08

really. Come on. Yeah,

53:10

yeah, yeah. We've known each other 10 years.

53:13

It's a lot of people. And I'm not

53:15

even, this is not one person or anything.

53:17

It's like a moment I'm experiencing, where

53:21

after being in New York, in New York comedy

53:23

for 10 years, I know a lot of

53:25

people. I've known a lot of people for a long time. And

53:27

now all of a sudden, I'm in

53:29

Milan and people are in my DMS. And

53:31

I'm like, huh, interesting. Yes, yes, yes. That

53:33

is very, this is the thing. I think

53:35

about it like this. When

53:38

I got my first writing job, someone took

53:40

a picture of the writer's room and

53:42

I was in it. I had

53:44

hundreds of more people following me on

53:46

Twitter back in the day. And

53:50

I was like, I'm not any funnier.

53:54

The demarcation wasn't that suddenly

53:56

someone was like, oh, he's

53:59

funny. I'm gonna follow

54:01

him. It was oh, I've seen he now

54:03

has this credit and now we're going to

54:05

follow him That makes sense.

54:08

It is this I I I see it as this

54:10

kind of This

54:12

thing where it demarcates not

54:14

anything about yourself But

54:17

about people's perception of you

54:21

as a as a

54:23

vehicle, yep, either for their

54:25

own desires or as a

54:30

means to their end if

54:33

that makes sense like fame is this

54:35

or Recognition or anything

54:37

like that is simply someone else is

54:40

someone else's desires being placed on you

54:43

It makes no, yes, it does. No, it is

54:45

it totally is it totally is and it's

54:48

about Yeah

54:50

selling an idea selling an idea

54:52

of yourself Mm-hmm and

54:54

like this thing that

54:56

we've been talking about about like on one

54:58

hand, you know I'm trying to figure out

55:01

like what are the things that

55:03

make my life worth worth living outside of

55:05

all this external validation? while at the

55:07

same time the world is Saying

55:09

to you like you are

55:11

worth something now because you're attached to this

55:14

writer's room or you're attached to this brand

55:16

or to this celebrity Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Just

55:19

just me being silly. What's who's the most random

55:21

person who's come out of the woodwork to DM?

55:23

Like are we talking someone you haven't seen since

55:25

fifth grade? Are we talking about

55:27

a hookup from ten years ago? Who's the most

55:29

random when you were where you were like, this

55:31

is hysterical. You should be ashamed of yourself Random.

55:36

Oh my god, this is This

55:39

is maybe not so Random

55:41

because it's only from like one

55:44

year ago this this person who

55:46

came into my life, but um I'm

55:49

taking a long time because I'm embarrassed. I Last

55:55

year I did a show at

55:57

house of yes, and

55:59

I ended up Going home with a guy who

56:01

just had seen me there, which was something I had never

56:03

done before I'd never just like hooked up with somebody who

56:05

was like at a show And

56:08

then it turned out you're a male

56:10

comedian. I am a male comedian now I've

56:12

made the full transition and then in

56:14

the uber to his place. He revealed

56:16

that he was and America's

56:19

Got Talent casting agent and He

56:25

Reached out to me again more recently being

56:28

like I actually have a pitch deck for

56:30

half hour And

56:36

he was like I'm trying to break into that world and

56:39

I was like girl I hate to tell you but I

56:41

can't help You I have no power here. I Have

56:44

no power to aid you in this endeavor. Yeah.

56:46

Oh my can you imagine in I'm sure

56:48

this happens in Los Angeles That

56:51

someone hooks up on one

56:53

of the apps and they show up with

56:56

a script Yeah,

56:59

yeah, we're done if you want to read this Sick

57:04

business this is it happened There was one

57:06

time at my show where this girl

57:08

came up and she had a tote bag It was

57:11

like a Mary Poppins tote bag of stuff She kept

57:13

pulling out for me and it was like she was

57:15

like here's a bottle of wine Here's

57:17

a box of donuts and then this

57:20

like massive pitch packet

57:24

Yes, yes like a laminated like

57:27

with like the whole script

57:30

and like two books that the script is based off of

57:32

and her like a handwritten

57:34

note being like if you like Basically

57:37

like if you see Elliot, will you give this to him and

57:39

I was like Oh I'm

57:42

not his agent like hurts

57:44

my heart hurts my heart to hear

57:46

I'm so uncomfortable I'm uncomfortable

57:49

for them Because it's

57:51

like I'm what it is. This is where you're like,

57:53

we know that's wrong But then I don't show something

57:55

that you're like you are so Desperate

57:58

and I don't mean desperate in a shit Shadyway, I mean

58:00

like this person has something

58:02

that they are dying to get out. Yeah

58:05

Yes, and they do not like so then on

58:07

one hand I feel that pain I feel

58:09

that like I get deep need a picture for

58:11

your need, but at the same time being like

58:13

I was this is so wrong. This is so

58:15

I will say I thought it was extremely brave.

58:17

I was like yeah It

58:20

is extremely brave, but I'm like it's

58:22

like I'm not doing did you

58:24

take it? Do you physically take it or do

58:26

you I did take it? I did take it

58:28

and I'm I'm like I Kind

58:32

of want to I mean I I did like look at it

58:34

because I wanted to make sure that it wasn't

58:36

anything like really scary You know yeah,

58:38

you're like Thank you my

58:40

friends. You know I was like you know

58:43

all work and don't play makes Jack and doll boy over and

58:45

over and over I just I want to make sure her hair

58:48

was not in it. You know what? Yeah,

58:52

I was like no Like

58:55

no magic in a bed egg yeah,

58:57

no no no um and

58:59

it wasn't it was a totally standard pitch deck

59:02

yeah but

59:05

Yeah, I have to That's tough.

59:07

Maybe I'll read it That's

59:09

tough not a blood slides. Can you

59:11

give this to Elliot, please? Oh? Like

59:14

what for Dexter no? Oh my

59:16

god, Jess you have time to answer a question

59:18

or two. I do all right Why don't

59:20

we take I'm chilling today? And

59:23

we get back we're gonna chill and answer

59:25

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1:01:06

you moving. You can watch your favorite TV

1:01:08

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for those days when you don't want to

1:01:12

miss a thing. So wherever

1:01:14

you're starting get moving with a Peloton

1:01:16

bike or bike

1:01:18

plus rental at

1:01:20

www.1peloton.com slash bike

1:01:22

slash rental. Terms apply. Now

1:01:28

y'all can we take a moment to talk about

1:01:30

Skims. We have to because I've only recently had

1:01:32

Skims in my life and I have to

1:01:34

tell you I am a changed woman. I

1:01:37

am okay because Skims is creating the next

1:01:39

generation of underwear for everybody. Now

1:01:41

I talk a lot about how when I be walking maybe

1:01:43

in the morning I like to be in these streets brawlers

1:01:45

because it's too early to be putting

1:01:47

on that underwire and just constricting

1:01:49

across the breast. It's too much

1:01:52

but but just like my emotions my

1:01:55

boobs do need some support and let

1:01:57

me tell you the Skims fits everybody's

1:01:59

scoops. Bralette is

1:02:01

giving me what I need. Yes it is.

1:02:03

No wires. Feels so light and comfortable. I'm

1:02:06

fully supported. Alright. The skins items.

1:02:08

Now when they arrived, first of all they did

1:02:10

arrive in compostable packaging. So we love that. Okay.

1:02:12

Yes to the earth. But when they

1:02:14

arrived, like the fits everybody boy short, it

1:02:16

was like looking a little small. Like

1:02:18

I picked it up, I said, I'm

1:02:20

sorry, is this big enough? Will this

1:02:23

work? But y'all, it's covering. Because it's

1:02:25

got this super lightweight, buttery soft fabric

1:02:27

that molds to your body. And stretches.

1:02:29

It stretches up to twice its size.

1:02:32

And the fits everybody collection is available

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in sizes extra extra small all the way up to 4x.

1:02:38

Thank you for the range. You can

1:02:40

shop now at skims.com. Plus get free

1:02:42

shipping on orders over $75. And

1:02:46

after you place your order, be sure to let them know

1:02:48

that couple's therapy pod sent you. Select

1:02:50

podcast in the survey and be sure

1:02:52

to select our show in the drop

1:02:54

down menu that follows. You got it.

1:02:56

Go ahead. Go to skims.com. Thank me

1:02:58

later. And

1:03:03

we're back with just Tom here to help you

1:03:05

handle your scandal. Don't be handing him no packets

1:03:07

now. Okay. Don't be showing up the shows with

1:03:09

whole ass. I

1:03:11

know. I carry a small bag. I don't have

1:03:13

space to bring all that stuff home. Absolutely. I

1:03:15

have a hoarding problem. I can't be given more

1:03:17

stuff. You keep a lot. You keep everything. I

1:03:19

keep a lot of stuff. I keep a lot

1:03:21

of stuff. So I can't be given more stuff.

1:03:24

We get questions from all over.

1:03:26

We get questions mostly from Instagram,

1:03:28

DMs, from Gmail. And

1:03:30

of course our favorite is voicemail Naomi. What

1:03:32

is the phone number? 323-524-7839. As always people, three minute

1:03:34

limit. All right. I

1:03:39

need you to start with your pronouns and your

1:03:41

log line because you can't go long and then

1:03:43

not get to the question to the end. Okay.

1:03:45

And here's my new suggestion. Bullet

1:03:48

point what you're going

1:03:50

to say beforehand. Set

1:03:52

a timer. And

1:03:55

if you're not getting through them in a timely

1:03:57

manner, then you know to like kind of

1:03:59

like move quickly. You gotta move because I

1:04:01

was looking through to get some questions for

1:04:03

Jess I was looking through and there's a

1:04:05

lot of notes that mean he leaves

1:04:07

where it's like they didn't get to the question and Or

1:04:11

like I think we know what they're

1:04:13

asking but they don't get to it. This one

1:04:15

leaves out a lot of details Can you ask?

1:04:18

Can you do you think you could put a call out for them

1:04:20

to follow up with the deal up with

1:04:22

details? It's a

1:04:24

lot of stuff, especially for someone who goes

1:04:26

through the questions about 20 minutes before we talk

1:04:30

All right, so this first one

1:04:33

is a voicemail here we go.

1:04:35

Hi, this is Frankie. I'm 34 And

1:04:39

my pronouns are she and her

1:04:42

I'm calling with an opinion question. Do you

1:04:45

think as long as

1:04:47

there's no animosity between them exes can

1:04:49

be friends. I reached

1:04:52

out to an old an ex-situation

1:04:56

ship and just

1:05:00

sort of offered an olive branch because

1:05:03

we have sort of been in an

1:05:05

on and off again situation

1:05:07

said for Over

1:05:09

a decade and it was very clear along

1:05:11

that period that neither one of us Really

1:05:15

well, I know it was very

1:05:17

clear during that period that he

1:05:19

didn't want a relationship

1:05:22

and towards the end of that period

1:05:26

I Agreed that we couldn't really have a

1:05:28

relationship. We just weren't compatible in that way

1:05:31

But we did have a lot in common

1:05:33

and we've been through a lot together and

1:05:36

although our relationship is sort of revolving

1:05:39

around sex I Appreciate

1:05:43

him and care for him as a person as

1:05:45

well. And I wanted to reach

1:05:48

out to him and offer a friendship and

1:05:51

I I contacted

1:05:54

him under these terms, but

1:05:57

he apparently wanted

1:06:00

more and I drew a

1:06:02

line that I was just offering

1:06:04

friendship. And I

1:06:07

sensed that I've sent him over

1:06:09

this and I just wonder if

1:06:11

I was wrong to assume that, you

1:06:14

know, we could have a

1:06:16

friendship that didn't involve physicality.

1:06:22

I would appreciate your opinion.

1:06:24

I'm feeling a little bit down today

1:06:26

because of the fact that I

1:06:28

think that there's just not going to be another

1:06:30

way for us to beat each other's

1:06:32

lives if we're not in

1:06:34

a very bare

1:06:38

minimum, in

1:06:41

a very sexual

1:06:45

and only sex relationship. I

1:06:47

just wanted to be friends. But

1:06:50

anyway, now I'm sort of trailing off. I

1:06:52

thank you for whatever opinions you'd like to

1:06:54

share. Have a great day. Okay,

1:06:56

Frankie. Okay, Jess, what

1:06:58

do you think? First, have you ever been

1:07:01

friends with an ex? My eyes are squinting

1:07:03

and I haven't stopped

1:07:05

squinting. I haven't stopped.

1:07:08

I've played. Have I

1:07:10

ever been friends with an ex? Here's the thing.

1:07:14

I think that exes

1:07:16

can be friends. However, they

1:07:18

have to have the foundation to

1:07:20

have a good friendship in the

1:07:22

first place. And so

1:07:24

I actually, I'm not friends with

1:07:26

a lot of my exes, like,

1:07:30

almost at all. And

1:07:33

for a while, I would really like

1:07:35

think about that because like, you

1:07:37

know, especially as like a dyke

1:07:39

style person, you know, there's a stereotype like

1:07:41

lesbians are always friends with their exes and

1:07:43

I never was like that. First

1:07:46

of all, I think maybe it wasn't super a lesbian. But

1:07:48

anyway, I also

1:07:50

was dating a lot

1:07:52

of people who I like wouldn't be friends

1:07:54

with. And I think that's also why those

1:07:57

relationships failed. And So

1:07:59

I think like, In this phone call

1:08:01

there's two questions. The one is

1:08:03

like can access ever be France

1:08:05

and the other is should I?

1:08:07

This lady. Like try to

1:08:10

be friends with this guy which I answer.

1:08:12

Is now like get Away From that Ill.

1:08:14

Years after. That guy is

1:08:16

yucky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah

1:08:19

and which he wanted to visit. i'm

1:08:21

it's did the general question is that

1:08:23

as a general question you have a

1:08:25

specific question which is was a completely

1:08:27

you. Tried to be friends. This guy's racy

1:08:29

saying i don't wanna be friends and. Now

1:08:31

you wonder if you're the problem. No,

1:08:33

you're not the problem. With.

1:08:36

This person is that prefer it. That. Know

1:08:38

when you've created a problem for yourself? which is that

1:08:40

you wanna be friends with this loser. Not unlike.

1:08:42

I also am asking like do

1:08:44

you wanna be friends with ham

1:08:46

or. Do. You have this unfulfilled

1:08:48

thing. Because it sounds like at some

1:08:50

point maybe you wanted a relationship. He didn't.

1:08:53

And so you wanna! You know just how

1:08:55

keep the ceiling going and keep him around

1:08:57

in your elias? Do you really want to

1:08:59

be friends? That was what you want. Book

1:09:01

as as do they are You in a lot in

1:09:03

common. but aside as you said you said but you

1:09:06

also do that foundations more questions were you friends? First

1:09:08

before all the situation. Because what

1:09:10

it sounds like is this is what. Happened right again. Shift

1:09:12

is over the course of ten years.

1:09:14

That's once, yes, settlements. You. You have

1:09:17

shared history, right? anybody? you've known for ten years in

1:09:19

some capacity, it's like, oh, there is a connection there

1:09:21

in. As much as I'd known you, ten years

1:09:23

can be a Canucks told anybody. Said

1:09:26

you have a familiarity with this person where

1:09:28

you're like oh, like them, but like. So

1:09:31

that you you go one

1:09:33

it. You. Don't

1:09:35

like the idea the this person. Would.

1:09:37

Be. Not. Your friends, but it isn't

1:09:40

and look at it until his offense and

1:09:42

I got into the house. You said you

1:09:44

said hey, lets you friends He said no,

1:09:46

That's your answer That doesn't make you a

1:09:48

bad person who make you naive. It doesn't

1:09:50

make you stupid. It means that Like or

1:09:52

he said no, He

1:09:54

wasn't like we can each other's. Butts.

1:09:56

Exactly he wants. So this guy said no

1:09:59

to multiple say. Is

1:10:01

what I heard yeah, they have hooked up over the

1:10:03

course of 10 years. She maybe wanted

1:10:05

to get closer He didn't so then they were

1:10:08

like no never mind. Let's stop. We're not out

1:10:10

for the same thing She came

1:10:12

back and was like hey, but would you want

1:10:14

to be friends though? He was like no, but we

1:10:16

can hook up like we were before this guy is

1:10:18

shady. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're

1:10:21

right You're right. This person is not it you

1:10:23

like, you know And I

1:10:26

think sometimes when a relationship doesn't go

1:10:28

the way we want it to go sometimes

1:10:30

you want to be friends because it kind of proves

1:10:33

that like You didn't

1:10:35

make a mistake about the Sun cost.

1:10:37

Yes Also proves like like

1:10:40

at least I made a friend Exactly.

1:10:42

Exactly. And it's like no, no,

1:10:44

no sometimes it's just a mistake sometimes. It's just not

1:10:46

the person That's like all it is

1:10:48

or sometimes the thing you gain from it is

1:10:51

self-knowledge It doesn't have to be

1:10:53

that that okay this now we're

1:10:55

friends now There's this external

1:10:57

change in the world over the last

1:10:59

10 years because of this It's just

1:11:01

like oh, well, maybe I know myself

1:11:03

a little better. Maybe I have gained

1:11:05

this bit of wisdom or

1:11:09

Something like that. Maybe it's just all

1:11:11

internal and that's also a change. Yeah. Yeah.

1:11:15

Yeah, I mean Frankie

1:11:18

of what you're you want to be friends with her advice

1:11:20

name I think so. No, I agree with you. But I

1:11:22

guess I'm like Frankie. Why do you want to be his

1:11:24

friend? That's I'm like you need to be real about that

1:11:26

Are you feeling like lonely in general? Are you just like

1:11:28

wanting friends and this is somebody you spent a lot of

1:11:30

time with over the course of a decade? So why not

1:11:33

join a book club? Thank this one talk about exactly new

1:11:35

way in a book club join a discourse or a discord

1:11:38

Yeah, there's there's all kinds of ways to make

1:11:40

really cool friends who are awesome who don't make

1:11:42

you feel bad. Yeah, exactly You

1:11:45

fucking run you around Exactly

1:11:47

exactly. So I'm like, okay, if you want some friends

1:11:50

we can find somebody else cuz he ain't it he ain't

1:11:52

it and That

1:11:54

it's not your fault that he ain't it. It's his own

1:11:56

fault. You know, I mean like he's not equipped He's not

1:11:58

a quick not a lot of things and he's

1:12:00

made that very clear. It's

1:12:03

okay to feel sad. It's okay to feel sad about a

1:12:05

loser. We've all been there. We've all

1:12:07

done that. But you

1:12:09

know, get a hobby. Get

1:12:11

some drinks with your girls. Call up some other

1:12:13

people and just like,

1:12:16

no. If the

1:12:18

lesson that you've learned is not to waste 10

1:12:20

years on some loser, that is a win all

1:12:22

around. Yes. Yes. That

1:12:24

is the truth. The whole truth

1:12:26

and nothing but the truth. So I'm in my head and

1:12:28

I'm just like, I'm acquaintances with exes. But I wouldn't

1:12:31

say I'm like friends. I don't call up an

1:12:34

ex and I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:12:37

Me neither. How's your day going? Yeah, me neither. No, I don't

1:12:39

have any of those kind of relationships, but I think I was

1:12:41

also similar to Jess. Like one, we didn't have the foundation of

1:12:43

friendship to start. I have very few people who I was like,

1:12:45

we were friends and then became a relationship and then went back

1:12:47

to friends. It was always like, I

1:12:50

like you. I want to be with you. And

1:12:52

then it's like, as you said, because I'm

1:12:54

similar to you Jess and that like wanting that relationship,

1:12:56

right? Or being like, this has to be the thing.

1:12:58

So you don't go in it with friendship to begin

1:13:00

with. Right. Exactly. You're

1:13:03

already 10 steps ahead. Like you're already married with

1:13:05

children. Yes, exactly. Exactly. How can

1:13:07

you be friends after that? Yeah, you can. You can't.

1:13:09

You're like, I planned a life for us. And now you're saying you're

1:13:12

not going to show up to dinner tonight. So we can't

1:13:14

hang out. Okay. Yeah.

1:13:18

My one like ex who I would say

1:13:20

I'm friends with, we were already friends before

1:13:22

and we never really, we didn't really legitimately

1:13:25

date. So, yeah.

1:13:27

Yeah. Not even one

1:13:29

time I was, she was out of show and I said something

1:13:31

like, Oh, my ex is in the room tonight. And then later

1:13:33

on we were hanging out and she was like, Oh, you were

1:13:36

talking about me. And I was like, Oh, it's like that. It's

1:13:39

like, that's why we can be friends.

1:13:41

We're actually friends. We're actually not exes. I'm,

1:13:45

we're friends and I'm delusional. Jess,

1:13:50

do you have time for one more? Yes, I do. All

1:13:53

right. You have to get Jess before he go

1:13:55

to Milan or some shit. He's on the road.

1:13:57

He's on the road. I know. Well,

1:14:01

this one comes to us anonymous from Gmail, Naomi.

1:14:03

Do you want to read it? All right, I'll

1:14:05

get in there. Okay, hi,

1:14:07

angels and guests. Anon, please, she,

1:14:09

her pronouns. I am having friendship

1:14:11

problems. I lived with

1:14:14

a close friend of mine for seven years. You can call

1:14:16

her MJ. She moved out

1:14:18

with little to no notice and sold all of

1:14:20

her furniture a month before she moved out, leaving

1:14:23

us to hang out in our rooms or in the

1:14:25

living room with lawn chairs. But that's

1:14:27

not even the issue. Looking

1:14:30

up to the move, I sensed that she

1:14:32

and another friend, you can call her Steph,

1:14:34

were pulling away and intentionally leaving me

1:14:36

out of things. Steph

1:14:39

was also pretty rude to me at gatherings hosted by

1:14:41

mutual friends. Once when

1:14:43

MJ was out of town, I looked at

1:14:47

their messages on her computer to each

1:14:49

other. I know

1:14:51

this is bad and an invasion of privacy and

1:14:53

trust, but I couldn't shake the feeling without knowing.

1:14:57

There I found texts about me,

1:14:59

my relationship and my ED

1:15:01

recovery. Oh no. All

1:15:04

were extremely nasty. I sobbed

1:15:07

and started distancing myself without explanation.

1:15:10

I recently had a celebration that MJ wasn't

1:15:12

invited to, and she texted me well wishes

1:15:14

and asked others why she wasn't invited. I've

1:15:17

known MJ for over a decade, and while I know

1:15:19

that there's no reason to keep someone in your

1:15:21

life after they've treated you cruelly, I still

1:15:23

feel like I owe an explanation as to why I kind

1:15:26

of ghosted her. She

1:15:28

texts me every so often, and I

1:15:30

always reply, but I never agree to plans. It's

1:15:32

been over a year at this point, and I'd like to

1:15:34

move on, but I feel so guilty. She

1:15:37

is someone who knows some dark things about my

1:15:39

life that I think the only reason I'm holding

1:15:41

on is because I'm afraid of what she'll do

1:15:43

with the information. Oh no. I

1:15:46

myself am not innocent of talking shit

1:15:48

about MJ, but I've also realized

1:15:51

I really don't speak ill of the people around me. Was

1:15:53

this a sign all along that I shouldn't be friends with her?

1:15:56

I don't know what to do. I obviously don't want

1:15:58

to incriminate myself, but I'm not. Don't want to keep

1:16:00

up the charade. Help. Incriminate.

1:16:08

Good. God that know what

1:16:10

did you do know? I mean. Okay

1:16:13

have you body has friendship problems like ours?

1:16:15

but I'm like well deserving you. See.

1:16:18

Read. Those. Message. He

1:16:21

went on her computer and read those men

1:16:23

who. Isn't I asked? Is.

1:16:25

Like. Door her your own feelings said. This

1:16:27

is this is what I'm saying. like it

1:16:29

does visiting the south to decide you crt

1:16:32

such my ass since they were pulling away

1:16:34

and doing stuff. So that I

1:16:36

went to find information. To.

1:16:38

Come from. Work.

1:16:40

If you're going to decaf supercell for gotta hire a

1:16:43

P I episode as it as as you're going to

1:16:45

try to dig up dirt. You.

1:16:47

Know it has to be a third

1:16:49

person that way there's a feels like

1:16:51

there's a right like I just someone

1:16:53

told them to me to it yes

1:16:55

someone told me you were being nasty

1:16:57

the eyes of the any more specifically

1:16:59

that otherwise you do have to say

1:17:01

like ah so I did something immoral

1:17:04

by reading messages about you being a

1:17:06

piece of shit to me So I

1:17:08

guess we're both pieces of shit. Maybe

1:17:10

I'm just to avoidance ah cause I'm

1:17:12

white I would never want to knows

1:17:14

us like the athletes say. The part

1:17:16

where you go. On the computer and

1:17:18

you look for it like you like

1:17:20

name search yourself to find out was

1:17:22

horrible things your best friends are saying

1:17:24

about you online the you guys can

1:17:26

have about like yep. Have.

1:17:28

Had her mom and. And privacy It I

1:17:31

don't need to Now I can feel the

1:17:33

vibe and all like go elsewhere or somebody

1:17:35

that yeah I'm with you on the same

1:17:37

way I would never two million years that

1:17:39

like it already just feels uncomfortable to me.

1:17:41

that's. Because just because he's a

1:17:43

problem with this whole situation. For.

1:17:46

Somebody you are friends with for so long. Y'all.

1:17:50

Were honest with each other, As

1:17:52

Emulate was allegedly offering talking. About

1:17:55

you behind your back. In like

1:17:57

was she was saying but you never said hey

1:17:59

I feel like. vibe has changed what's

1:18:01

going on. Yes. You never

1:18:03

had that conversation then you went and looked up

1:18:05

information. Even now she's

1:18:07

saying I'm holding on

1:18:09

to I think the only reason

1:18:11

I'm holding on is because I'm

1:18:13

afraid of what she'll do with

1:18:15

her. No, she's afraid her friend

1:18:17

is gonna blackmail her. That's not

1:18:20

a friendship situation. This is not and

1:18:22

also just really the use of the word

1:18:24

incriminate I am like so what does she

1:18:26

know like exactly? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:18:28

yeah. Like where did you bury

1:18:30

the body? Because? Yeah,

1:18:33

she knows a lot of dark stuff but but but

1:18:35

that's the thing. It's like so what you're trying to

1:18:37

do is basically you want it to be nice enough

1:18:39

that she the MJ has no need to like say

1:18:42

anything to other people. But you

1:18:44

obviously still don't want to interact with her and

1:18:46

I think it's like you gotta

1:18:48

call it you gotta let this go unless you're

1:18:50

willing to have a real conversation in which case you

1:18:53

both go to each other go hey so I did

1:18:55

something shitty in which I found out you did something

1:18:57

shitty can we both agree that we were we were

1:18:59

shitty and then we're even Steven

1:19:01

and we ain't gotta be friends again but

1:19:03

unless you're embezzling if you're embezzling then

1:19:06

keep this friendship going because

1:19:08

that the because you need the cash no

1:19:10

I was gonna say because going to jail

1:19:12

is worse. Than having this

1:19:14

person around I see what you're

1:19:16

saying if you're embezzling you shouldn't

1:19:19

be listening to the show we

1:19:21

don't we don't appreciate embezzling or

1:19:23

saying bad things about Jennifer Lopez

1:19:26

so get out of here

1:19:28

with that we don't do that here not in this

1:19:30

house no not on this show. I'm

1:19:34

like you have to. I

1:19:39

think you gotta let this go you gotta I

1:19:41

mean you you told someone a lot of stuff

1:19:43

about yourself which friends do or the course of

1:19:45

a friendship I don't know shit about me. And

1:19:48

you just gotta say well let's hope they got better things

1:19:50

to do. Like

1:19:53

that's all you can do. I think

1:19:56

that this one needs to go

1:19:58

with Frankie and then. MJ can

1:20:00

go with that guy and Then

1:20:03

everybody can be friends Everybody

1:20:05

has a friend. Yeah, you know

1:20:07

if anybody needs a friend they have a friend The

1:20:12

balance is righted in the

1:20:14

universe like everybody Yeah,

1:20:16

it's a bridge. Should we start one of

1:20:18

those? The

1:20:21

those it's not a it's not like an app. It

1:20:23

would be where we pair people we pair a little

1:20:25

yeah like a good service Yes

1:20:27

friendship Friend matches be

1:20:30

a couple I mean couple therapy pot if we really

1:20:32

want to build a brand an empire That would be

1:20:34

what we do That's what we have an umbrella people

1:20:36

come there and then we would match them up You

1:20:38

do need to move into the tech space like that

1:20:40

is what the universe is calling you to do. Thank

1:20:43

you so much I've been trying to get quiet and

1:20:45

just see where where am I being called? Yes, I

1:20:47

do have a new AI app Creates

1:20:50

podcasts. So you just put in who the

1:20:52

hosts are and it'll create a podcast No, I was

1:20:54

hoping it would create me a friend, but I Could

1:20:59

for your ears a friend for your ears.

1:21:01

That's what Yes, so

1:21:03

you want you want to create your own smart list episode

1:21:08

Where they interview Queen Elizabeth,

1:21:10

yeah, RIP RIP Andy

1:21:14

like this is gonna happen like you're joking but I was like

1:21:16

a bed is not an AI Make your

1:21:18

own podcast. We'd say that merely hurt my head. It's

1:21:20

like gives me chills. But no, I think yeah No,

1:21:23

I agree. It's like this person I Think

1:21:26

should you say something you feel guilty? So I always

1:21:28

feel like you know, here you are Like

1:21:31

months months months and months later still feeling

1:21:33

bad Sometimes I do advocate like

1:21:36

keep your side of the street clean Like if it will give you

1:21:38

some freedom to say hey, I did this thing Then

1:21:43

okay, no, I don't know If

1:21:47

you do that you have to know

1:21:49

that you are opening yourself up to

1:21:53

Whatever response MJ has because it sounds

1:21:55

like you you you you don't trust MJ So it's

1:21:57

like this family where you're like if you tell MJ MJ

1:22:00

might, you know, put all your

1:22:02

business out there. That's what I'm saying. If you

1:22:04

are worried that MJ has

1:22:07

dirt on you for whatever reason, do

1:22:09

not admit what you did. It's

1:22:12

not, it's, you didn't hurt anyone. No, you lose

1:22:14

the moral high ground. I mean, you've lost it

1:22:17

already, but like if you tell her, it's done.

1:22:20

You didn't hurt anyone with it. You

1:22:22

did spy, I wouldn't call that the

1:22:24

most moral act in the world, but

1:22:26

no one's hurt because of it. Well,

1:22:28

she hurt herself. Well,

1:22:30

yeah, sure. If anything, yes. You're

1:22:33

hurt. I mean, MJ bounced back off the

1:22:35

mirror and hit you. Right. I mean,

1:22:37

MJ's a little hurt feeling like, well, why wasn't I invited to the

1:22:39

party? Right? Like MJ does feel like, Hey, I

1:22:41

was friends with this person. They left. But MJ

1:22:43

went and talked to other people. All of

1:22:46

these people are talking to other people. Exactly.

1:22:48

And not talking to each other. They live in

1:22:50

the same house. Yeah, they did for seven years.

1:22:52

But if you want to explain something to MJ,

1:22:55

you could say like, Hey, I felt like you

1:22:57

and Steph were pulling away from me. So I

1:23:00

kind of just preemptively pulled away. That's

1:23:02

it. You don't have to like go into like,

1:23:04

by the way, I also read your private messages. You

1:23:06

can say you guys were moving

1:23:08

back. So I felt like it. And then you

1:23:10

can, if you feel like you need to give

1:23:12

MJ an explanation, but even that, it's like, if

1:23:14

you do that, you know, you can't come in

1:23:17

there, you know, high and mighty. Cause the Lord

1:23:19

knows, you know, you know what you did last

1:23:21

summer. So don't play. You

1:23:24

can't, you can't. But I'm

1:23:26

saying like, if you feel, if you really feel

1:23:28

like you need to give MJ an explanation, which

1:23:30

the, I think the three of us are saying

1:23:32

you don't have to write that

1:23:35

these friendships don't sound very good. So I, again,

1:23:37

these people want to be friends with people. But

1:23:40

again, this person is not even saying they really want to

1:23:42

be friends as much as they're like, I don't want to

1:23:44

rock the boat. Cause MJ could end me. If

1:23:49

that's what your worry is, then you can say that,

1:23:51

Oh, I felt like you were pulling away. So

1:23:53

I preemptively pulled away. And then you

1:23:56

can just have a nice

1:23:58

little detente from there. If

1:24:00

you're worried about again, like I don't know what kind

1:24:02

of dirt do they have did you cook the books?

1:24:05

What did you do right that what have you done?

1:24:07

What have you done? What

1:24:09

have you done? I've been a breach-burner in the past

1:24:11

like to the point where I had a sort of

1:24:15

Template not literally but like when it

1:24:17

would come time for me to be

1:24:19

like I can't be friends with this

1:24:21

person anymore I kind of would know what I

1:24:23

had to say and it was a very sort of middle-of-the-road

1:24:25

Like I just feel like we've been growing apart You

1:24:28

know, we're going in different directions and

1:24:32

Like I honor our friendship or

1:24:34

what it has been Wow, really? So you would

1:24:36

say that see I've never really said anything to

1:24:38

a friend I just like don't engage and

1:24:40

then it just kind of stops

1:24:42

being friends. I have had some pretty

1:24:44

persistent friends, but I But

1:24:49

I'm also trying to now I'm trying

1:24:51

to really weigh like who do I

1:24:54

really want to be friends with? So

1:24:56

that maybe I don't have to have

1:24:59

the efficient friend breakup. Yeah

1:25:01

mad lab. Yeah Yeah,

1:25:05

yeah, I'm gonna tell you this though Naomi

1:25:07

your Your way of

1:25:09

doing that then some of it rebounds on me

1:25:11

as in people then DM me Oh,

1:25:14

yes over the last over the last 14

1:25:17

years. What are you ever told me such

1:25:19

a thing? Wait, you're we could talk about

1:25:21

it off Wow, but I was like, hey,

1:25:23

did I do something what's going on? Damn

1:25:28

I will just warn the the

1:25:30

okay if if you are

1:25:32

ghosting if it's a mutual ghosting Wait,

1:25:36

then you guys can go. I've had friends where

1:25:38

like we just didn't there was no breakup We're

1:25:40

just not hanging out that much and maybe we

1:25:42

like maybe we like talk

1:25:44

once a year or something like that So

1:25:47

it's nothing dramatic. Yeah, okay So

1:25:50

I've had friendships like that. I've never

1:25:52

had a breakup a friendship breakup. I've

1:25:54

never had that it's just but it

1:25:56

seems like all my Friendships,

1:25:58

I'm just like we've got grown apart and

1:26:02

we both recognize that we're going in two different

1:26:04

directions and we just didn't have

1:26:06

to say anything mm-hmm mm-hmm I will say

1:26:09

the one-sided ghosting is the problem yes because

1:26:11

the other person is left wondering like what

1:26:13

the fuck yeah yeah yeah yeah to

1:26:16

me it sounds like MJ confused too because it's like

1:26:18

well MJ is the one talking shit and then also

1:26:20

wants to hang out and also wants to get invited

1:26:22

so I'm like yes that's my thing that's nothing

1:26:25

to know cuz I'm like yeah you got his

1:26:27

fucking shit about us I don't know why you

1:26:29

yeah so desperate to be at the party if I

1:26:31

was talking shit about someone and in

1:26:36

look if I talk shit about someone it's

1:26:38

a voice note that disappears okay you got

1:26:40

a boy I wouldn't not I will never

1:26:42

know that I will never text I will

1:26:44

never email never after

1:26:46

that Sony leak I

1:26:49

will never do that but

1:26:52

if I if I would talk shit

1:26:55

about someone and then

1:26:57

they started you know moving

1:26:59

apart from me I would be like oh and they

1:27:01

must yeah yeah yeah they must have been here now

1:27:03

yeah and I've

1:27:05

had that too like to be honest I

1:27:07

totally had that where I'm like I don't

1:27:10

think that person likes me that much but

1:27:12

like I don't like them so like yes

1:27:14

they probably caught my vibe like I'm like

1:27:16

that's that's allowed yeah absolutely yeah

1:27:18

you don't have to be around me if

1:27:20

you think I'm saying shit about you which

1:27:22

maybe I am fine protect

1:27:24

yourself like I honor that protect

1:27:26

yourself absolutely yes that's it a

1:27:28

hundred percent that's why I like

1:27:31

this whole thing is like no

1:27:33

this is not this

1:27:35

is not the friend for you uh-uh

1:27:38

and I think you have to kind of make peace

1:27:40

internally with burn the vineyard

1:27:44

everybody needs to go home sorry I

1:27:46

go ahead I just need to listen it out I

1:27:51

said that as soon we just gave

1:27:53

me the first one fuck look everybody

1:27:59

needs to go home, go in their

1:28:01

little room and be with themselves and just

1:28:03

meditate on what is a friend?

1:28:08

What kind of friends do I need? Because

1:28:10

I think everybody just needs to like ask

1:28:13

themselves the question of

1:28:15

friend because I think we're really like tossing

1:28:17

that word around right now. Uh

1:28:20

huh. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.

1:28:23

Jess. Jess. Jess. Jess.

1:28:25

Jess. Thank you. Thank you

1:28:28

for joining us today. Thank you for being here. Thank

1:28:30

you for having me. You're a great friend. Thank you

1:28:32

for letting us perceive you. Thank you

1:28:34

for being a friend. I have been

1:28:39

honored to perceive you for all these years

1:28:42

and to know you and

1:28:44

thank you so much for

1:28:48

having me. It was so much fun. Head

1:28:57

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