0:01

Welcome to Creating Your Happy Place, a podcast

0:03

that explores what it takes to create your happy

0:05

place and then empowers you to do whatever

0:08

it takes to make sure that your home makes

0:10

you seriously happy. I'm

0:12

Rebecca West, host of Creating Your Happy Place

0:14

and author of the book, Happy Starts At Home,

0:17

and I'm so glad you're here today. Now,

0:19

this season we're having some fun exploring the

0:21

idea of becoming an expat. It

0:23

might sound like a great adventure to leave

0:25

the United States and set up home in another

0:27

country, but it comes with challenges.

0:30

Here in the United States we have not just a

0:32

remarkable amount of choice when it comes

0:34

to shopping and finding things that suit

0:36

our personal style, but we're also

0:39

very used to being able to get almost

0:41

whatever we want, whenever

0:43

we want it. And it's not necessarily

0:45

like that everywhere in the world. Today

0:49

we're chatting with Naomi Geidel, currently

0:51

living in a studio apartment in Bangkok,

0:53

Thailand, but as we speak, she's

0:55

packing up and moving to Jeju, South

0:58

Korea, and this is gonna be her fourth

1:00

country as an expat already having

1:02

lived in Japan and Indonesia before

1:05

moving to Thailand. When

1:07

she's not sharing her relocation adventures

1:09

on a podcast, Naomi is a creative,

1:12

a coach, and an international teacher

1:14

who provides support and encouragement to

1:16

creatives, helping them find the

1:18

clarity and the confidence they need to

1:20

move forward and bring their ideas

1:22

to life. In particular, her

1:24

Inspired Change program supports

1:26

those ready to take life by the hand and

1:29

create a way forward. Naomi

1:31

also has a podcast of her own called A Creative

1:34

Purpose, which you can find on her website,

1:36

which of course you'll find in the show notes. I

1:39

am excited to welcome her to the show

1:41

today. Hello, Naomi!

1:42

Hello. Thank you so much for having me.

1:45

I'm very grateful for your time because you

1:47

are literally right now moving to South

1:49

Korea. Thank you for making the time to talk

1:51

with us.

1:52

Happy to.

1:53

Well let's start with a little bit of context for our

1:55

listeners. Way back before you

1:57

made your first overseas move, what

1:59

kind of home did you have in the United States,

2:02

and did you really personalize it?

2:03

So at that time I was living in Orange,

2:05

California. I was living in an old Victorian

2:08

house that was split into four apartments,

2:10

so still a small space, but still a

2:12

lot of character. And

2:14

I loved living in Southern California

2:17

cuz you have the Rose Bowl flea market, Long

2:19

Beach flea market, great

2:21

estate sales. And so

2:23

I was always finding things very

2:26

inexpensively, repainting

2:28

them, bringing them into the home.

2:31

Yeah, so that's what that season looked like

2:33

and I loved it.

2:35

So now we fast forward and

2:37

you are about to leave the United States.

2:39

What created the first opportunity to move?

2:42

I was kind of unsettled and so

2:45

I was just putting out feelers, talking to people...

2:47

and somebody mentioned this opportunity in

2:49

Japan. So I explored what that

2:51

would look like and um, took that leap.

2:54

I had, you know, had to pack up,

2:56

it was like, whatever you can fit in your two suitcases,

2:59

that's what you get to take. And

3:01

so, um, that's what I did.

3:03

And then from Japan, you moved

3:05

to Indonesia.

3:07

Actually I came back to the states.

3:09

Ahh, okay. So what's the timeline of this

3:11

adventure, starting with your first move.

3:14

It was my late twenties when I moved to Japan

3:16

for a year, and then I actually moved

3:18

back to Colorado where I had grown

3:21

up, um, thinking I wanted

3:23

to settle in and do all that. So I

3:25

was there for about eight

3:27

to nine years and

3:29

bought a townhouse... That was another

3:31

great season of having my own space

3:34

and painting walls, buying

3:36

lots of shelves for all my creative things.

3:39

Then, in my late thirties

3:41

a door opens up for Indonesia

3:43

and that was a big

3:45

transition cuz that's when I sold most

3:48

of my things.

3:49

Including the house itself?

3:50

Yeah, yeah. Because at that time

3:52

I was like, uh, do I want that responsibility

3:54

of renting it out and

3:56

what does that look like?

3:58

So you went to Indonesia just with what

4:00

would fit in two suitcases. Same process?

4:02

Same process.

4:03

So you're in Indonesia then did you come

4:05

immediately to Bangkok or was there another

4:08

US period of time there?

4:09

So I had gone back to the US again for

4:11

two years. This time I ended up in Nebraska

4:14

closer to family. I found this

4:16

old house that was two levels,

4:19

very charactery, hardwood

4:21

floors, beautiful windows. And

4:23

again, I started to collect and

4:26

find these treasures. I had

4:28

actually gone back out to California for a while

4:31

and hit all the old jaunts

4:33

of collecting things and

4:35

I actually came back to Nebraska with a trailer

4:37

full of treasures, um,

4:40

thinking I was gonna settle in and have

4:43

fun with that.

4:44

And how long did the Nebraska chapter last?

4:47

That was two years.

4:48

Two years. And then Thailand, how

4:50

did that come up?

4:51

At this time I had a friend living

4:54

in Thailand and she's like, Hey, yeah,

4:56

why don't you, you know, see

4:58

if there's any jobs open. And at that

5:00

time in Nebraska things weren't falling

5:02

into place like I had envisioned, I

5:04

was just like, this isn't working, I

5:07

need to figure out what to do next. And so,

5:09

yeah, Bangkok opened up and I had actually

5:11

been through Bangkok and I knew

5:13

I liked the city for the ease of transportation

5:17

and availability to things as an

5:19

expat, and so I knew I could live here.

5:21

I knew it was a livable city for me.

5:24

Um, yeah, so that door opened and

5:26

I walked through that one again too.

5:28

What worries did you have moving to

5:30

Thailand?

5:31

Yeah. Making friends, can be tricky. I'm

5:34

an ambivert, so it's not like I'm out

5:37

you know, on the town. Um...

5:39

and just what would life look like day-to-day?

5:42

You know, just navigating new streets,

5:44

navigating a new transportation system,

5:46

just knowing that your life

5:48

is gonna be kind of, not

5:51

in shambles, but just really not

5:53

normal for a while.

5:54

And not easy. My experience was

5:57

I no longer had anything that could be on autopilot.

6:00

Nothing. Not getting up, not

6:02

showering, not buying shampoo. Nothing's

6:05

on autopilot, and that's a really exhausting

6:07

period of time.

6:08

It is. Yeah.

6:09

You've put yourself through this three times and now you're doing

6:11

it again. What makes that worth it for you?

6:14

The experience of it, the expansion

6:16

of my ideas of people,

6:19

because being put in a new culture,

6:22

it can be exhausting, but it's also

6:24

exhilarating to be like having

6:27

your eyes see something you've never seen before,

6:29

and getting to know other people

6:32

and why they do things and how

6:34

they experience life themselves, yeah,

6:37

I think at this point in my life,

6:39

it is kind of this expat

6:41

life of... you know, wanting to stay in a place

6:43

for a while to really get to know it, and

6:46

then we'll see where the next door opens.

6:49

Let's talk about setting up your home in all these

6:51

places. Let's start with Thailand. Did

6:53

you find the place on your own? Were

6:55

you working with an agent? Did you Airbnb

6:57

it? Like, the logistics? How'd you find a place

6:59

to stay?

7:00

Yeah. So I worked with an agent

7:02

here, um, cuz it wasn't like,

7:05

usually in international schools, depending

7:07

on the country, they provide housing for you.

7:10

In Thailand, a lot of schools will give you

7:12

like a stipend and then you have to find your own

7:14

housing. And so, um,

7:16

I knew I wanted a small space because

7:19

I am a collector and I

7:21

was like, you're not collecting as much. So

7:23

I did choose a studio for that reason.

7:26

And I chose one that was well

7:28

decorated, you know, something that already

7:30

felt like home, like the paint color on

7:32

the wall with beautiful artwork

7:34

already. So I felt like it was just

7:36

a move in and I could

7:39

then enjoy other things and not

7:41

make a home again, in that sense.

7:44

You know, it was more like, Can I

7:46

invest in the relationships and

7:48

other cultural kind of things? So

7:50

that was kind of different from other

7:52

times.

7:53

So it came fully furnished, it had everything

7:55

you needed and it was also beautiful cuz

7:57

you were thoughtful about the place you chose.

8:00

Did you end up loving it as much as you hoped you would?

8:02

I did, yeah, it was a little bit

8:04

tricky just because of the size.

8:07

I dream of possibly having

8:09

a tiny home at one point so this is

8:11

good practice for that and yet

8:13

part of that time was covid and so it did

8:15

feel like the walls were, you

8:18

know, creeping in. Um,

8:20

yeah, if I had a normal schedule, I wouldn't

8:22

care cuz I'm not home much. And

8:24

so it wouldn't have mattered in

8:27

that sense.

8:27

Right. Which is what a lot of people experienced through

8:29

covid. Like, this home worked great when I

8:31

wasn't here 24 hours a day.

8:34

Yeah.

8:35

Given the kind of place you chose, maybe

8:37

you didn't have to deal with setting up

8:39

utilities and things like that aside from setting

8:42

it up, did you find tiny

8:44

little differences, like how the light switches

8:46

work or how and when they pick up the garbage

8:49

or if they even pick up the garbage these

8:51

things that we take so for granted

8:53

as the norm.

8:54

Uh, good question. Um, I

8:56

mean, like, you have to go down and get

8:58

your big jugs of water, right? And

9:00

so that's like, what company do I use?

9:02

How do I get them to deliver it? Um,

9:05

I had the same thing in Indonesia, but it was

9:07

delivered to my door. Now it's delivered

9:09

downstairs. You gotta, you

9:11

know, hike that thing up there.

9:14

Is that something you're doing because you didn't

9:16

grow up and you're not used to the water there? Or is this

9:18

something that all the people there do they all just

9:20

have water delivered?

9:22

Yeah. Pretty much everybody has it delivered,

9:24

yeah.

9:25

But there is running water, showers and everything.

9:27

So this is just the potable water that you drink and cook

9:29

with?

9:30

Yeah, and some people, like

9:32

I brush my teeth in the water that comes

9:34

out of the sink, so I'm not too scared about it. And

9:37

I cook with the water cuz usually I boil

9:39

it, but for drinking water I just get

9:41

the bottle water just to

9:43

cut down on any, you know, tummy issues

9:45

that might arise. Cuz that is never fun to deal

9:47

with.

9:48

Mm-hmm. You go through that once and you're like, that

9:50

was plenty of times.

9:52

Yeah. I think Bangkok was an easy

9:54

transition from like coming,

9:57

like already having experienced a lot of that stuff

9:59

in Indonesia. You know, like plugs

10:01

are different, lights are different. You

10:03

know, just having the light on the outside

10:05

of the bathroom instead of the inside.

10:08

You know, some of those kind of things

10:10

or, um, yeah.

10:12

I feel like this was a easier move

10:14

than before.

10:16

When you think about what you thought

10:18

would be the hardest thing about moving to Thailand

10:21

versus what ended up being the hardest

10:23

thing about moving to Thailand, are they the same

10:25

or are they different?

10:26

That's interesting because I didn't think I'd

10:28

come back to Southeast Asia, like I was

10:30

like, no, it's just too chaotic. I'm

10:32

ready for kind of some peace and quiet.

10:35

But then Thailand is interesting.

10:38

They don't have a lot of horns, you

10:40

know, with the cars so it's a lot more

10:42

quiet in that way. They have more

10:44

sidewalks that you can walk on.

10:46

I think that's what I really missed too,

10:49

when I lived in Jakarta. I was like, oh, I just

10:51

want a good sidewalk to walk down

10:53

without having to, you know, trip

10:56

and fall on a loose brick

10:58

or something like that. And I feel

11:00

like, there's a lot of availability

11:03

for that here in Bangkok. And so that

11:05

made it more, I don't know, homey

11:07

if you will, you know, like, oh,

11:10

I can walk and not stumble.

11:12

So yeah, different things like that

11:14

that I was like nicely surprised with. And,

11:18

if you've never been here,

11:20

it's so different

11:22

than what you would imagine or see

11:24

on pictures because there

11:26

is so much availability to what

11:28

I have back home. You know, like

11:31

I can get cheese, I can... I

11:34

don't know, get Lucky Charms

11:36

if I wanted, you know, yes, I might have

11:38

to pay a little bit more, but like

11:41

if you are really craving home, um,

11:43

you have access to that.

11:44

And is that specific to Thailand,

11:47

and you didn't find that to be true in Jakarta

11:49

and in Japan.

11:50

Um, you can find

11:52

certain things. Yeah. So it just depends

11:55

on the country, what home

11:57

kind of things they import. Like

12:00

when I lived in Japan, Pepsi was my thing

12:03

cuz it reminded me of my mom, or

12:06

I forget what Jakarta was. It's

12:08

usually food, you know? Um,

12:11

so yeah.

12:12

I love that because it's such a small thing,

12:15

but it represents such an anchor to home.

12:17

Like all you needed was a Pepsi occasionally,

12:19

and you were like, all right, I can survive.

12:22

Yeah. Yeah, it is funny.

12:24

Yeah. Well you do have two moves already under your

12:26

belt and it sounds like living in Thailand

12:28

just felt more

12:30

familiar overall Yeah.

12:33

Interesting. Now as a fully furnished

12:35

place, um, what

12:37

did you love most about this place that

12:39

you're now leaving?

12:40

Uh, I think just the ease of it,

12:43

right? Like the small space, not

12:45

having to manage a lot, um, of

12:47

stuff. Don't get me wrong, I still have my stuff.

12:49

I still have my craft stuff, but I

12:51

think before, like when I lived

12:53

in Denver, I had two floors

12:55

and bedrooms to manage and clean, and

12:58

here it's just very simple. Like your kitchen isn't

13:00

very big, so it's not like you can

13:02

make a huge mess. Everything's

13:05

pretty accessible and close to

13:07

you. Yeah, I think that's what

13:09

I like in the season is the ease of things.

13:12

That makes sense. I think most of us are looking

13:14

for a little bit more ease in our lives in general.

13:16

So a smaller space is a good way to create

13:19

a lifestyle that supports ease instead of struggling

13:21

against having just too much stuff, too much space.

13:24

Given that it was completely furnished, what,

13:28

if anything, did you do to make it feel more

13:30

like your space?

13:32

What did I do to it to make

13:34

it mine? Plants always,

13:36

plants can't

13:38

get enough of those. Um,

13:41

oh, I do bring pillow cases because

13:43

I know that's an easy way to make it mine.

13:46

And it's easy to pack, it's little. So

13:48

I bring some of those. Uh,

13:51

what else have I done? I

13:53

think just like my little creative

13:55

things like my art supplies, you

13:58

know, having maybe my brushes

14:00

or colored pencils in a jar

14:03

just to bring in those kind

14:05

of elements that I like. And

14:08

candles. Yeah, that

14:10

kind of stuff.

14:11

Yeah, just bringing that, that sense of pleasure

14:14

into the house. Yeah.

14:16

Definitely.

14:17

Okay, so that's your time in Thailand.

14:19

Stepping back to Jakarta, to

14:21

Indonesia, what kind of place did you live in

14:23

there?

14:25

Yeah, so that was an interesting one. I

14:27

don't know if you'd call it a studio,

14:30

because like the bedroom was all glass.

14:32

So it was like, you know, very open,

14:34

but whatever. Um, so I lived in that

14:36

for a while and then I also moved to

14:39

this kind of villa place, which

14:41

was a one bedroom apartment. So

14:43

really like beautiful space.

14:46

Had a beautiful kind of patio out

14:49

to greenery where I had them

14:51

put in hammock hooks, so I could enjoy

14:53

that. Um, with those two

14:55

spaces, they were

14:58

decorated nice, but

15:00

like in the second one I lived in, I, you

15:02

know, it was kind of like an old couch and so

15:04

I thought I was gonna stay there for a while. They

15:07

had IKEA there, so I got some couches

15:09

that I could afford and tried

15:12

to, you know, really make

15:14

it a home in that season as

15:16

far as like a new table or,

15:19

um, setting up a bigger craft space.

15:22

So that was a little bit different

15:24

in that sense of really buying

15:26

big pieces of furniture,

15:29

um, more artwork, rugs,

15:32

the whole thing.

15:33

Did you end up staying long enough in that

15:35

space that you felt like you got the value out of

15:37

it?

15:37

Good question. Um, I think

15:39

so, and that's where I kind of

15:41

have come to like, my space

15:44

is here. It's like Even if you're here a year,

15:46

a year is a long time and

15:49

also a short time. But like, space

15:52

is very important to me and I

15:54

want it to feel like home.

15:56

I want it to feel comfortable. And so

15:58

for me, making those investments kind

16:01

of doesn't bother me, except now when I'm trying

16:03

to pack, you

16:05

know, maybe I'm like, ah, why

16:07

did I do this?

16:08

Yeah, of course.

16:09

But yeah, it's important

16:11

to me.

16:11

When you transition, do you tend to give away

16:14

or sell your things or is

16:16

it a combination?

16:17

Yeah, combination. Um, I'm

16:19

kind of to the wire, so it's kind of like, okay,

16:21

who needs this? Let's just get rid of it. Get

16:23

it out of here. I always had big

16:25

hopes of like starting earlier and

16:28

you know, having this all planned out

16:31

nicely. And now it's like, okay, we're two weeks out

16:33

when you have to get outta here

16:35

I've seen a lot of fire sales on the expat

16:37

groups like, like what you want

16:40

guys? I gotta get outta here.

16:42

Yes. Yeah,

16:44

And then, same question as I

16:46

had in Thailand. Things

16:49

that you were surprised by. Things that were funky

16:51

about how the house worked, cultural expectations.

16:53

What did you find in Indonesia?

16:55

Well, it's interesting when you have those little

16:58

geckos or tea checks, they're

17:00

just in your home and you know, and

17:03

I don't really like them, but then I was like,

17:05

well, they're eating the mosquitoes and they're not

17:07

hurting me except one time I opened a

17:09

cabinet and one flew out. So that was

17:11

a little bit, you know? And

17:13

so it's like fun stuff like that,

17:15

that you're just like, oh, that's interesting.

17:17

Or, um, like

17:19

my, the bigger apartment,

17:22

it had like a maid quarter, you know,

17:24

like a helper quarter. So that was interesting.

17:27

I didn't ever have one, but

17:29

to see kind of how they had their places

17:31

set up for, you know, an extra

17:33

set of hands.

17:34

Yeah, actually, even though you just said

17:36

you didn't have help, I think it's still

17:39

really common in these countries for

17:41

there to be household help. Like that's a normal

17:44

thing to have nannies, housekeepers,

17:46

even cooks, right?

17:48

Yeah. Yeah, very normal.

17:50

That's very interesting. Cause that's not normalized

17:52

here in the States at all.

17:53

No.

17:54

It's the ultimate luxury.

17:55

Yeah.

17:56

I love that you brought up the geckos cause I

17:58

remember when I was younger, I

18:00

got to be in Tahiti and they had geckos,

18:03

and they had mirrors over the headboards

18:06

of the beds on the wall behind the bed in

18:08

theory so that the geckos couldn't climb up over

18:10

your head. Geckos can climb

18:12

on glass, no problem. They

18:14

were like, this is just another wall. Speaking

18:18

of geckos and eating mosquitoes, those

18:20

are all tropical locations,

18:23

do you have mosquito netting around your bed?

18:25

How do you mitigate for mosquitoes? Are there screens

18:27

on the windows?

18:29

Uh, I've never had a mosquito net. Um,

18:32

maybe when I was traveling, but never in

18:34

the places I've actually lived long term.

18:37

I'm on the 29th floor right now, and

18:39

so it's pretty high up. Um,

18:42

yeah, so I don't have any issues. But,

18:45

um, you do have, like here in Bangkok,

18:47

we have German cockroaches and American

18:49

cockroaches, and so you have to like deal

18:52

with some of that.

18:53

What's the difference between a German and American

18:55

cockroach aside from the language they speak?

18:58

I know, right? According

19:01

to pictures, I think the German ones are

19:03

smaller and, kind of... cuz

19:06

I was reading up because I mean,

19:08

that's the hard thing living in,

19:10

I think there's 42 floors in this apartment

19:13

building, so that's a lot of people,

19:16

and it's just kind of a natural thing in big

19:18

cities. You're gonna have cockroaches,

19:20

you're gonna see rats in the street, you're gonna

19:22

see all these things. And so I think, not

19:25

like I love them, but I have learned

19:27

to live with them. You know, like this is just

19:30

part of living in some of these areas

19:33

and around a lot of people.

19:35

And so you just do your best to keep them

19:37

at bay because I do live

19:39

alone, it's not like I have anybody else to deal

19:41

with this, so you just kind of have to... deal

19:44

with it and make the best of it.

19:46

But yeah, some of those bug issues

19:49

are kind of, not

19:52

so nice to deal with.

19:53

Not your favorite.

19:54

Yeah, just different.

19:56

Let's talk a little bit about Japan.

19:58

Your very first move. What kind of home

20:00

did you have there?

20:01

Yeah. So initially I was in a

20:04

traditional home, and...

20:06

What do you mean by traditional home?

20:07

So, let's see, how

20:09

do I explain this? Um, you know where you have your shower

20:12

room separate from the toilet

20:14

room, you have the sliding

20:16

doors, the tatami mats,

20:19

the katatsu, which is that table

20:22

with the warmers underneath for the winter. You

20:24

know, not central heating, but you have

20:27

like a heater that's running and

20:29

so more traditional like that.

20:31

Then I moved to another really

20:34

small studio, where like, it only had

20:36

a twin bed, but they kind of built it

20:38

up on stairs so you could have storage underneath, amazing,

20:41

you know, design, um,

20:43

as far as small space.

20:45

I mean the Japanese do stuff with

20:47

storage that nobody else does in the world.

20:50

It's amazing!

20:50

Yeah, I love it. I'm glad I

20:52

had that experience to live in that small

20:55

space and again, very simply at

20:57

that time.

20:58

Anything, about Japan that was particularly

21:00

strange? By strange I just mean

21:02

unfamiliar to people from the United States, about

21:05

the utilities, the electricity,

21:08

those kinds of things.

21:10

Hmm. Well, I think just having

21:12

to run a heater, like I've

21:14

never had that experience, you know? So

21:16

like, not being able to run

21:18

it forever so you have to put more

21:20

blankets on your bed in the winter.

21:22

Like, I remember some winters I would

21:24

sleep underneath the katatsu

21:26

because that was the warmest thing, you

21:29

know, to like just snuggle up

21:31

under. So just some of those different things

21:33

that I think we take for granted, walking around

21:35

our house and being warm all the time.

21:38

There it's like, okay, you bundle up more,

21:40

you have your slippers and socks on, and

21:42

it's not, um,

21:45

just comfortable temperature-wise,

21:48

every part of your house. And

21:50

so I think that was different.

21:51

Yeah. We are in, in the United

21:53

States, so comfortable in our

21:55

perfect homes. Perfect temperature,

21:58

perfect everything. And of course, the convenience

22:00

of getting everything we want when we want it. How

22:03

do you feel like it's changed you having

22:05

to accommodate your spaces, put on an extra

22:07

blanket instead of having your space accommodate

22:09

you?

22:10

Hmm. Good question. It's

22:12

made me more patient, you know, not

22:15

so I need

22:17

it now." It's interesting

22:19

because it's uncomfortable and yet it

22:22

becomes comfortable. Like, yeah,

22:24

that's just the way it is. Like you come in,

22:26

it might be hot in your apartment because

22:28

you don't have the AC going all the time. So

22:30

I think, I hope it's changed

22:33

me in that I realize

22:36

how lucky I am, I just hope

22:38

that I appreciate it more.

22:40

I was listening to a podcast about

22:43

happiness and they were talking about how

22:45

one of the most effective ways to

22:47

be happy is to take away

22:49

the thing that's making you happy for

22:51

a while, because then you appreciate

22:54

that thing a lot more. I know that

22:56

when we, we spent three months in Paris

22:58

in very small apartments, and when I came back

23:00

to my, I think, I think our place is

23:02

like 1400 square feet, it's not big by American

23:04

standards, I'm like, this place

23:06

is amazing. It's so huge

23:08

and I've got two bathrooms

23:11

for us, for two people. Like it's crazy. There

23:14

was this almost honeymoon period of re-loving

23:18

the luxury of being

23:20

in an American home .You get so used

23:22

to it, you get so acclimated to the luxury

23:25

that it stops becoming a luxury. You stop feeling

23:27

how lucky you are.

23:28

Mm-hmm. Definitely. Yeah, I was, I

23:31

was trying to think like, What am

23:33

I excited to go back to? You

23:35

know, and it's maybe like drinking

23:37

tap water from Colorado because

23:39

it's so yummy and cold

23:41

and...

23:42

Seattle too! I know. I love our tap

23:44

water. It's one of the main things I miss when

23:46

we travel.

23:47

Uhhuh.

23:47

Yes.

23:48

Yeah. You know, just little things

23:50

like that that I hope, I just am aware

23:53

of and appreciate more when I am back

23:55

to it. Um...

23:57

When you have come back those two times, what

23:59

was the hardest thing about coming back

24:01

to the United states? Where was your biggest...

24:02

hmm.

24:02

...culture shock?

24:05

I think the amount of choice,

24:07

like I remember going through Walmart and

24:09

Target and I'm like, so

24:11

they have Lucky Charms oatmeal now?

24:14

Or you can only, I

24:16

know I'm talking a lot about Lucky Charms, so this is

24:18

interesting.... but what, you can only get

24:20

Lucky Charms marshmallows? Like you

24:22

don't have to eat the cereal part of it?

24:25

Or yeah, just the vast

24:27

amount of choice the new innovations

24:30

that they're trying to market.

24:32

it's a lot and a lot overwhelming,

24:36

yeah.

24:36

We are addicted to choice in the United

24:38

States. If we don't have choice, we feel like

24:41

something is wrong. My

24:43

first time coming back from a less developed

24:45

country, I remember that experience of walking through the

24:47

grocery stores and I just felt completely

24:49

overwhelmed, I didn't even know where to start picking

24:52

peanut butter. I'm like, there are 12

24:55

brands of just this one kind of peanut

24:57

butter that's just the smooth side and there's also the crunchy

24:59

side. It was just too much.

25:01

Yeah, for sure.

25:02

So you're about to move to South Korea now. What's

25:05

bringing this opportunity up for you?

25:07

Yeah, just a new teaching opportunity. I

25:10

love Bangkok and I kind of wish I could have stayed,

25:13

but now that this is happening,

25:15

I'm excited to go there and

25:17

see what that's like.

25:19

Jeju is an island and

25:21

a lot of nature, so I'm looking for more

25:24

of that in my life. I love wandering

25:26

city streets, but I also really

25:28

miss the mountains or access

25:31

to more greenery. And so, yeah.

25:33

So it'll be a fun change.

25:35

Now that you're so seasoned as an expat

25:38

are you feeling anxious about anything

25:40

in particular, or are you just like, yep,

25:42

this is just the same ol' same ol'.

25:44

The new language piece is overwhelming.

25:48

I think there's always anxiety around like,

25:50

am I gonna meet a good

25:53

group of friends to do life with? Um,

25:56

how does the bus system work? How

25:58

am I gonna ship my stuff there? You

26:00

know, like getting a quote and I was like, I can't

26:02

afford that. So now I have to figure out a

26:04

cheaper way to do that. I

26:06

think there's always anxiety with change,

26:08

but it's like also a good anxiety and not

26:10

like a anxiety that's gonna stop me from

26:13

stepping forward and taking on

26:15

this new adventure. Cuz it's like I

26:18

know that I'll figure it out. I

26:20

know I'm gonna have some stressful

26:22

moments and might

26:24

have a temper tantrum, you know, just from frustration

26:27

like that all comes with

26:29

this experience, but I also

26:32

know I have a, lot more patience cuz I've done it

26:34

a few times now.

26:35

Right. You've shown yourself that you can get through

26:37

it, there is a light at the end of the tantrum tunnel.

26:40

Yeah. There's gonna be frustrations. Okay.

26:42

Just ride it out and make it more of an adventure.

26:45

Do you learn the language in each of the places you go?

26:47

Uh, I wish I did, so

26:50

when I was gonna move to Japan, I got

26:52

CDs and was listening to that

26:54

so I felt like I had a good basis,

26:56

not fluent at all. Indonesia,

26:59

no clue. Tried to take

27:01

lessons but, it's interesting working

27:03

in international schools cuz you're always speaking

27:06

English. Thailand was a little bit interesting.

27:08

I remember being in a taxi

27:10

with my boss and he studied Thai and he was

27:12

just saying all this, all the rules

27:14

of Thai and all the intonations and, and I

27:16

was like freaked out. So I was like, oh, I'm

27:18

never gonna learn this. So I didn't really put a lot

27:20

of effort in, which makes me

27:23

sad now, you know? So I

27:25

am starting to learn Korean cause I was like, I don't

27:27

wanna leave there and not know anything

27:30

like I think that's important. So yeah,

27:32

I would like to know more. It's not my strong

27:35

suit, so, it's a little bit more challenging,

27:37

but it's doable.

27:39

Of course. Yeah. I mean, most people

27:41

that don't live in the United States speak 2, 3,

27:43

4 languages. So clearly it is

27:45

possible, even if we don't tend to do

27:47

it very much.

27:48

Yeah, definitely.

27:50

What advice would you like to give people out there

27:52

who wanna create their own happy

27:54

place overseas?

27:56

Hmm. I think just go for

27:59

it. If you are set on a certain country,

28:01

figure out ways to make it happen. Um,

28:04

if you don't know where you wanna go, just start putting

28:06

feelers out and see where that leads

28:09

you, you know, that sense of adventure.

28:11

Bring some of those things that are

28:14

near and dear to you, whether that be

28:16

like a candle from home or

28:18

pictures, art, um,

28:21

books. just take

28:23

it with you. And you'll find too that it's about

28:26

the people and the experiences that really

28:28

make it home.

28:29

You've mentioned a couple of times that one of the challenges

28:32

of each of these moves is making new friends.

28:34

So do you tend to like hop on Facebook

28:36

and find a bunch of groups? What are your resources

28:39

for creating those personal connections?

28:41

Yeah, so some of it has been

28:43

Facebook groups, meet up groups, just,

28:45

you know, trying different activities. Some

28:48

has been working events.

28:52

Bangkok really does have a strong women's

28:55

kind of collective as far

28:57

as, you can find lots of people to

28:59

do things with. You may not

29:01

click with everybody, but at least you have the

29:03

opportunity to meet a lot of people

29:05

and see which ones do stick. I

29:07

think that is one of the hard things though, because

29:10

it is a transient community, and so

29:12

you might have your good group of friends that

29:14

you're doing life with, and then one of you moves...

29:17

I think being okay

29:19

with yourself as your really good

29:21

friend, like having that foundation,

29:23

you know, so you're not sitting in loneliness

29:26

or, I mean, I think there's parts

29:28

of that, but like not all the time. So

29:30

then you can go out and meet

29:32

people and enjoy time with

29:34

other like-minded people.

29:37

But you're not reliant on them for your happiness.

29:39

Right, right.

29:40

That's one of the hardest relationships any of us

29:43

ever have to navigate is the relationship with

29:45

ourself and being

29:47

an expat can feel very isolating

29:49

and very lonely. You really get

29:51

to know yourself when you go to a country

29:53

that's not your own.

29:54

Yeah. It's our longest relationship.

29:56

It's the one we're most intimate with. So

30:00

how can we start to foster

30:02

better relationship with self?

30:04

Yeah. Thinking about all your homes,

30:07

which one has been your favorite home,

30:09

and why?

30:10

Hmm. I honestly can't say

30:12

I have a favorite because they're

30:14

all special in their own unique way

30:17

as far as the season of life, the

30:19

people that were around in that season,

30:21

how I set up that home. And

30:24

so I think they're all really

30:26

unique in a sense.

30:29

It's interesting because, you know, being homesick,

30:32

right? Like, now I have

30:34

how many places to be homesick for,

30:38

and so it's just interesting because

30:40

it's not one place.

30:41

You've used the word season quite

30:44

a few times. What does the word season

30:46

mean to you?

30:47

You know, in nature seasons change.

30:50

Like if you're going through a hard season,

30:53

it will come to an end, and

30:55

there will be another beautiful season on

30:57

the forefront. Some people might refer

30:59

to it like a chapter of a book, you

31:01

know, that page turns and now you

31:03

can move on to a new part of your story.

31:06

It feels like you're saying enjoy

31:09

what's now and know that it's gonna

31:11

end, so don't miss it. Or,

31:14

it's okay that you're not enjoying what's now

31:16

because it's gonna end and you can survive this

31:18

too. So no matter what, it creates

31:21

a sense of perspective that says both

31:24

you can get through this and also don't miss

31:26

it because it is going to pass you by.

31:28

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I do have a

31:30

little bit of that yolo attitude, like you

31:33

only live once. But then I also

31:35

recognize there are hard seasons in life

31:37

that you are just navigating

31:40

minute by minute, You know?

31:42

You do anything to get out of that season

31:45

if you could.

31:45

Yeah, and sometimes you just have to sit

31:47

in it and it's not fun. And

31:50

yet by sitting in it and

31:52

going through that, you will come out

31:54

different and stronger and you

31:56

will be able to see things in a whole

31:58

new light and the beauty for what it is.

32:01

Do you find that you're keeping friendships or

32:03

do they tend to be seasons as well?

32:05

I think it looks a little bit different depending

32:07

on what life looked

32:09

like after, like was I able to

32:11

maintain those relationships? Even

32:14

if it's not like I'm in contact

32:16

with them all the time, I feel like I have really

32:19

good friendships that you can always go back

32:21

to without dropping a beat. I know

32:24

I can always call somebody

32:26

and we can pick up where we left off.

32:28

I think that's pretty cool where, I feel

32:30

like I can go a lot of places and

32:32

know somebody.

32:34

Well, I like that you framed it that way because I

32:36

think that sense of loss

32:38

actually stops a lot of people from taking

32:41

on an adventure like this, that they don't want

32:43

to let go of what they have and you are

32:45

not describing it as a loss. You're saying it changes,

32:47

the relationship changes, but it

32:50

didn't go away. That's very hopeful.

32:52

Yeah. And it, I mean, it is hard

32:54

to say goodbye to people that you love

32:57

and you are comfortable with. I

32:59

do think that stops a lot of people

33:01

from taking that leap. And so I guess I

33:03

would encourage anybody just to take it

33:06

and be open to what that might

33:08

look like. I would say usually it

33:10

turns out better than you expected. Um,

33:13

there are no guarantees, you know,

33:15

like me coming, like,

33:17

I think I had eight or nine months,

33:19

and then Covid happened, you know. That

33:22

was a hard season, and yet

33:24

we've worked through it, and so it's just

33:26

like, yeah,

33:29

we make it through.

33:30

You also can start with smaller risks.

33:32

You don't have to sell everything and move to Indonesia.

33:35

You could take a solo trip

33:37

to Hawaii for three days and just see how

33:39

that feels, because even just

33:41

traveling alone is a big leap

33:43

for a lot of people.

33:44

Yeah! Even just going to the next town over

33:47

a different route than you usually

33:49

take to work. You know, like just

33:51

exposing yourself to what's

33:54

not in the routine gives you new

33:56

eyes to see other possibilities. You

33:58

don't have to travel far.

34:00

Oh, that's beautiful. I love

34:02

that you brought up the idea that that can be as small

34:04

as changing the route you take to work or going

34:06

to the next city over. It's such an accessible

34:09

way to begin an

34:11

adventure.

34:12

Yeah, definitely.

34:14

What would you like to leave our guests with today?

34:18

Well, as far as home we can

34:20

make it anything that we want. Our

34:22

physical space, the people we surround

34:24

our life with, what we invest our

34:26

time in, hobbies

34:28

and all that stuff. Coming from America

34:30

where we feel the stresses

34:33

of the cost of living right now, if

34:36

you are feeling the heavy weight of things,

34:38

how can you find more joy in the little

34:40

things and play? I would encourage that

34:43

exploration.

34:44

And where can people best find you?

34:46

I like to hang out on Instagram @acreativepurpose

34:50

or you can find me on my website at naomigeidel.com.

34:53

And of course, that'll be in the show notes. Thank

34:56

you so much for taking time with us today.

34:58

I really appreciate it.

34:59

Thank you. This was fun. I appreciate

35:01

you sharing some of your expat

35:04

observations as well.

35:05

Oh, and I'm still learning. Definitely.

35:07

Yeah.

35:08

To our listeners, I hope you enjoyed

35:10

this episode of Creating Your Happy Place

35:12

and that you do feel a little bit more empowered,

35:14

and hopefully excited to make your home your

35:16

happy place no matter where in the world

35:19

you're located. If you're feeling

35:21

less than happy in your home, please remember that my

35:23

book, Happy Starts At Home, is here as a

35:25

resource for you. It's full of exercises

35:27

meant to help you figure out how your home could

35:29

be better supporting you and the lifestyle

35:32

that you want to live. That's it

35:34

for this episode of Creating Your Happy Place...

35:36

until next time!