0:03

On the creative journey

0:05

it's easy to get

0:07

lost or worry you'll

0:09

lose. Some

0:11

signs you just means

0:13

it's creative. So. Hey

0:22

you listen to for you have. Taught a

0:24

weekly podcast companion for your creative

0:26

journey. I'm A D J Pizza

0:29

New York Times bestselling author, an

0:31

illustrator and I will be your

0:34

guide on his creative expedition. Let's

0:36

go. One.

0:41

Question that plagues me often is whether

0:43

I'm and natural or not. Creative way.

0:45

My dad jokingly says this phrase a

0:48

lot in conversation. like when he's hanging

0:50

out with the grand kids. his grandkids.

0:52

My kids are my brothers kids and

0:55

they're just really be in themselves. I

0:57

might be I got man. My nephew

0:59

is so funny and he'll be like

1:01

yeah, he's a natural and it's a

1:04

funny comment in everyday life. But as

1:06

a creator, this is an idea and

1:08

a mindset that has ate away at

1:11

me. At different times in my

1:13

creative journey like am I a

1:15

natural illustrator are not, am I

1:17

a natural right? Or am I

1:19

naturally a good storyteller? Or am

1:21

I naturally funny or whatever it

1:23

is, This is a question. This

1:25

is the type of mindset, fixed

1:27

mindset that has really throw me

1:30

off course a bunch of times.

1:32

Today on the show we have

1:34

Mira leave a towel and I

1:36

feel I kind of a kindred

1:38

creator with me or because she's

1:40

an illustrator. That is more

1:42

comfortable with words. And this episode

1:44

we explore why not being a

1:47

so called natural can actually be

1:49

a superpower and I and I

1:51

really believe that. Nine and I

1:53

loved where this conversation went on

1:55

this topic and we get into

1:58

a whole bunch of other. Super

2:00

fine, juicy stuff and I could

2:02

have talked a mirror up for

2:04

ever. and I hope she comes

2:07

back in the South. you can

2:09

check out Mere as work at

2:11

Merely Patel.sub stack.com and subscribe to

2:13

her newsletter there and also Merely

2:15

Patel dot com. For

2:17

her portfolio Real love, Mira and

2:19

her amazing words and or and

2:21

I hope that you'll love this

2:23

chat as much as I did.

2:38

A all real quick. I have a

2:40

quick little favor to ask of you.

2:42

You may or may not know that

2:45

Twenty Twenty Three was a bit of

2:47

a rough time in the world of

2:49

podcasting and we didn't have hardly any

2:51

sponsors last year and what that means

2:53

as that most episodes we made last

2:55

year actually cost us money to create

2:57

and were a net loss and now

2:59

we have some plan to try to

3:01

get that back on track. but. I

3:05

want to keep making episodes to support

3:07

you and your create a practice. Regardless

3:09

of the state of podcasting, so

3:11

would you consider supporting the show

3:13

in one way or another? There

3:16

are two different options. Number one

3:18

is Patriarch and number two is

3:20

our newly launched sub stack. If

3:23

you support on either platform, you'll

3:25

get access to something new that

3:27

were doing and twenty twenty four

3:29

that I am super excited. A

3:32

bow and it is our lives

3:34

virtual creative pep rallies. Our aim

3:36

is to host a group. Zoom

3:39

every last Monday at a month

3:41

in Twenty Twenty Four and these

3:43

calls that we've done the past

3:45

with patrons are super special and

3:47

I would their they've been so

3:49

awesome! Add the demand have been

3:51

high so we have decided to

3:53

try to make them a monthly

3:56

saying where we share wins and

3:58

discuss the places where restock. And

4:00

also do can a queue an

4:02

A's Around recent episodes I've always

4:04

wanted to have like more employ

4:06

and community and discussion and kind

4:08

of fear your side when making

4:10

the show and this seems kind

4:13

of like the best way do

4:15

that in my own creative practice.

4:17

Nothing has helped me more than

4:19

getting alongside people there actually doing

4:21

this. Thanks And these calls with

4:23

these artists and creators and writers

4:25

and filmmakers from every stage in

4:27

the creative journey have been really

4:29

great. For that. ah, for me personally,

4:32

On subs that I will also be

4:34

sharing behind the scenes stuff. So if

4:36

you're a long time list or the

4:39

south or you're in an advanced kind

4:41

of stayed in your practice, this might

4:43

be extra useful to you because unlike

4:45

on the podcast run mostly talking about

4:47

things that I've done in tested in

4:49

the past, these posts will give you

4:51

a window into the creative work and

4:53

strategies and next steps that I'm exploring

4:55

in real time so will also be

4:57

all the have space to have conversations

4:59

about it right as it's happening or

5:01

before I even create. Any thanks I'm

5:03

and it gives your window and two

5:06

pound thinking what I'm doing right in

5:08

this moment. South is also might be

5:10

interesting to you if you just know

5:12

the about the stuff that I do

5:14

or you want to be the first

5:16

to hear about staff and and get

5:18

an early before others. Here's a quick

5:20

snippets of the audio version of our

5:22

first paid post called Riding On Stage

5:24

for Secret Projects I'm currently working on.

5:27

Here goes. Much

5:31

as the details on

5:33

the podcasts and. That's.

5:36

Been really frustrating because the

5:38

podcast is one of the

5:40

places where I work out new

5:42

material south of a handful of

5:44

things that have been in

5:46

the works for. Different

5:49

amounts of time and

5:51

they are all at

5:53

various stages. The

5:55

first one as a project

5:57

I'm cause. Or I That's it.

6:00

Tell you what that project has called

6:02

Oxalates Ah I'm getting. You can go

6:04

to any Jp the.sub stack.com and that

6:06

post has a preview and you can

6:09

check out a little bit of it

6:11

including what that first project as and

6:13

you can sign up to the patriotic

6:15

Adrian dot coms I've created. Pep talk.

6:18

Either way up, See you at our

6:20

Lives Zoom! At the end of the

6:22

month we are gonna start their monthly

6:24

check in practice That hopefully gives you

6:27

some momentum and some accountability and even

6:29

potentially. A little bit. A creative community

6:31

all of twenty three. That's

6:34

it. Thanks everybody! For those

6:36

who have already supported the

6:38

shelves years, you are making

6:41

this possible. Say have

6:43

do. You

6:52

do so many different things box

6:54

you did an essay. You.

6:56

Do. Art for

6:59

Kids Now Subs that. And.

7:01

I wondered if you think of

7:03

yourself primarily as like an illustrator,

7:06

a rider or. Just. An

7:08

exhausted human. Is

7:10

that as a spots that the main way

7:12

that you identified because I had I feel

7:15

like that sometimes am you don't So many

7:17

things like was how to use that of

7:19

yourself. As always. Either

7:22

right or Britain. And to

7:25

be honest, so I think

7:27

in words, languages, Clinton's how

7:29

I process. And sound

7:31

people always ask me now for my

7:33

work. that cares. Writing an illustration? what

7:35

comes first. And it's always

7:37

the words because the words are highly

7:40

sent. By. When

7:42

a when she can't me and they

7:44

sell. An it's an

7:46

it's an author illustrator program. It's

7:49

for people Crew are in his

7:51

ass, stared at in the combination

7:53

of both. And that

7:55

is why is the program through

7:57

it solves tumors. To me because. I've

8:00

always felt that any typically you. If

8:03

a kid just focus it. you know

8:05

on being a writer I wouldn't lose

8:07

faster. I would be more successful. I

8:09

would be. Most importantly, I would be

8:11

a better writer. And if

8:13

I could just let go of the illustration part

8:16

or vice versa as I did to scares me

8:18

since. She the Earth. Than

8:21

I could excel or in that area and

8:23

be able to truly. You. Know speak

8:25

through visuals in the way that

8:27

I've always wanted on. At

8:30

I've always been able to are unable

8:32

to like don't I Don't? Know.

8:34

How to be touched the to

8:36

from each other or had an

8:38

extract the ones from me so.

8:41

On. And so the

8:43

two years they could spend an amnesty

8:45

program I worked very hard to develop.

8:49

I'm. A mode

8:51

of thinking. As. An illustrator

8:53

hotter process. To. Drawings.

8:56

Air and it does not from them from

8:59

to me. And

9:02

it's it's tough sir. I don't know if you ever

9:04

feel that way, but it's such tear. It

9:06

beneath that behavior. Rate.

9:09

Like once you have reliable as

9:11

artists are writer. I. Think

9:13

the world's it. Expects

9:16

that. Works to come

9:18

Easy to him. Yeah, and I

9:20

am. I'd actually by wanted

9:23

don't instantly just jump in

9:25

and be I'd. I.

9:27

Am exactly the same in

9:29

that particular way. And I've

9:32

actually given this line of

9:34

thinking a lot of thought.

9:36

I don't how to conclusions

9:38

but I find it very

9:40

peculiar and and assassinating because

9:42

I think my wife sings

9:44

and pictures of visual things

9:46

Her and she has a

9:48

fine artist but I say

9:50

her in some ways. That

9:53

is what makes her

9:55

a better writer. And

9:57

I'm the opposite in that, I think.

10:00

Wheatley and Words. There's often multiple

10:02

kind of monologues going on in

10:04

my head that are competing my

10:06

it cannot stop That's almost word

10:08

for I come in a brain,

10:10

but I but I think that

10:12

there's something about like the art

10:14

is the translation of the words

10:17

to pictures. For me I think

10:19

what's interesting about that and I

10:21

and hearing you talk about it

10:23

is that I think it's contrary.

10:25

To. The Narrative of.

10:29

Ease or giftedness. And maybe it's not.

10:31

I don't know. I don't know if

10:33

it's true or I don't know what

10:35

the right answer is, but that's kind

10:37

of where I've landed. is that the

10:39

art is the translation. And. There's

10:41

something that that translation does for me

10:43

as a person, like trying to put

10:46

it in pictures. I

10:49

agree with you. I have. I

10:51

know that. Okay, can I be

10:53

the interviewer? First Section A second Much as

10:55

soon as this as. City.

10:58

You find die in that tree.

11:00

Embrace Signing. Juri discovering

11:03

alternate perspectives midi ones

11:05

that didn't exist. When.

11:09

Your philosophy was just in words.

11:11

Yes, one hundred percent nationally

11:13

like. An. End and

11:15

I and I love that you are

11:18

annihilate. You completely flipped this interview or

11:20

see his and ah but I'll buy

11:22

I was by the end of the

11:24

episode. Are going to try some new

11:26

that I've been wanting to try with

11:29

sell out artists which is kind of.

11:31

Both. Of us bringing the table set

11:34

to the table something that we don't

11:36

have worked out and trying to like

11:38

work it out in real time because

11:40

I've just been really attracted to conversations

11:43

like that where it's not so much

11:45

like here's what I now but to

11:47

people like sharing and comparing notes. So

11:49

I love. yeah yeah I love that

11:52

am but ah yes I think that

11:54

that's and actually one of the things

11:56

that really happened for me was like

11:58

off and I. Would. Make.

12:01

An episode of the podcast where I

12:03

had a story that I told with

12:05

an analogy and a point that I

12:07

was trying to make and then when

12:09

I would go sometimes I would go

12:11

make a comic out of it. after

12:13

I had released the episode. And.

12:15

Then I would make the comet. And.

12:17

I be like oh. This. Is

12:19

the point. This is so much

12:21

better. Or clearer. And

12:24

it only came by like forcing

12:26

myself to translate it. So absolute

12:28

yeah. Yeah. I totally

12:30

agree with that and I emphasize that that

12:32

me think that is. On. His

12:34

debut that is the Beauty and.

12:37

Noom. Not to say of us

12:39

but it's people could do you think? En

12:42

route multiple languages, That

12:45

you can. Extra. So. Many

12:47

angles and perspectives. Of

12:49

the same story. there are so many

12:51

hundreds of stories with the not one

12:54

moment and. I think that

12:56

is what I'm attracted to. That is why

12:58

I try so very hard. To

13:00

draw isn't that a natural to me,

13:02

but I want to be British shell

13:04

of the difference he says of one

13:07

moment and that is what I'm. Working

13:09

towards. I.

13:13

Have you ever heard? I.

13:15

Thought that I had come up

13:17

with says but then later my

13:20

picture book editor a set me

13:22

a link to this. Old.

13:25

They're kind of illustration

13:27

text box and it

13:29

was. As call I

13:31

think it's called. Riding with pictures

13:34

And that was. That's the

13:36

definition I like most for

13:38

illustration. Have you ever heard

13:40

that definition? Riding with Pictures.

13:43

I. Don't think so. Now yeah, I wanted

13:45

to run that by you, because

13:47

being so squarely between those two

13:50

worlds, I don't often get to

13:52

talk to somebody that's as kind

13:54

of stock in between those are,

13:56

or by cutter reaching to both

13:58

of those. Brenna wanted

14:00

to run that by you because. As

14:03

I was dive in and your world and

14:05

doing a little extra research I how to

14:08

draw dropping moment looking at your instagram I

14:10

clicked and image to get a closer look

14:12

of a poster you'd done as they go

14:14

to like a Life As good saying and

14:17

I noticed that you have. A

14:19

Tatsuo from my all time favorite

14:21

book. Which. Is the little

14:24

prince? And that and I've

14:26

frickin I just i thought I was so

14:28

cool off by the i bring it up

14:30

because. I. Think that.

14:33

Am can you tell people what that

14:35

as before I just lose the contacts.

14:38

Sir. I sell one is nine

14:41

or sell all time favorite. Pieces.

14:43

And and heard I'm a little

14:45

trends and I have attached. See

14:47

you. As an hour

14:50

science inside a Boa constrictor. And.

14:54

underneath their in France it says one

14:56

never knows. And.

14:58

To me it is a

15:00

less throwing in similarity, a

15:03

lesson in. Appearances can

15:05

be deceiving. And.

15:08

Most importantly, or less than

15:10

a week retaining. The.

15:12

Child's the imagine he sends.

15:15

An. In learn in learning how

15:17

to really see you know we're talking

15:19

about writing and drawing and for mean

15:21

trying they try to keep in mind.

15:24

And learning how to see

15:26

how tier and serves. On

15:29

how did not immediately

15:31

dismissed because. Our. Brain

15:33

want to deal out and wants to

15:36

understand what's in front of us. And

15:38

mine at least in order to do

15:40

that. dismisses so many possibilities. And

15:43

sell that tattoos for me is?

15:45

you know to start doing that?

15:47

Don't dismiss the possibilities. You

15:50

know, see, see, what's there? Wonder

15:52

what? they're kinda? Encouraging.

15:54

Me to think outside the box and

15:56

think away. A. Child dies

15:58

which is. Pre it reopened

16:01

a possibility. Absolutely

16:04

And. I. I

16:06

I kind of. I'm. Starting

16:08

out. Ah, Just to kind

16:10

of vibe and. At

16:13

side are now encourage you or

16:15

something or give you some clarity.

16:17

Starting out really wide with all

16:19

kinds of different threads, hopefully circling

16:21

and on have more coherent picture,

16:23

but I'm kind of throwing out

16:25

a bunch of curiosities. That's just

16:28

my encouragement like Will.don't worry, I

16:30

know it's kind of chaotic right

16:32

now. I'm glad I. Bought

16:35

all these are always pieces between

16:38

writing illustrating what's are gifted it

16:40

out what you struggle were like.

16:43

How those things work and pay and

16:45

damn to create flow. All that kind

16:47

of stuff is kind of where I'm

16:49

what I'm getting by. It's a good

16:51

deal for people that don't know that

16:53

book or that illustration can you set

16:55

up. What? That

16:57

is. Shares

16:59

sell it to back and the

17:02

but begin squared. An

17:04

incinerator kinda saying. I'm.

17:07

Not a problem with the top, the

17:09

kind of white. A grow not

17:11

to leave says as they grow and they

17:13

learn to be in the world. And.

17:16

Sell it The little Prince Philip's

17:18

I hope to. The kidding aside,

17:21

I haven't read it for a walk quite a while.

17:23

Saw, you know I can't correct you anyway. Yeah,

17:26

the little prince size draw me.

17:29

I sat on the got in the I'm in a nicer

17:32

send. Us your eyes out.

17:34

Let me out. I'll chime in with

17:36

what. I remember, but I

17:38

know you already had the heart of

17:40

it, right? Which is that. This

17:43

is the drawing that you have

17:45

as the inside of a Boa

17:47

Constrictor that is that has an

17:49

elephant in it. Is my

17:51

that in right? Yeah. And at the beginning

17:53

of the block he does a drawing that.

17:56

Is. The outside of the

17:58

Boa constrictor am with. Right

18:00

now I'd and all the adults think it's

18:02

a hat. And.

18:05

He's like yeah mouth. Ah,

18:08

and so we don't just trying

18:10

to be like this is what's

18:12

in it Any, just got frustrated

18:15

that like basic, leave, grown ups

18:17

only see the surface level and

18:20

that's where not Korea and they're

18:22

very literal. Yeah, Yes,

18:24

Yes! Exactly. And

18:27

I and I love that tattoo and

18:29

I love this. The

18:32

reason I wanted to bring it up was because.

18:35

As. Someone who loves are an illustration and

18:37

all that. I

18:39

think one of the things that. Pushed.

18:41

Me into. Writing.

18:44

Or leaning heavily on writing.

18:47

Was. That. An

18:49

illustration can contain so

18:51

many things, but the only

18:53

way for anybody to.

18:56

Encounter them is to.

18:58

I'm is for them to spend

19:01

time with it and and look

19:03

behind the surface in a and

19:05

dig into it and. As

19:07

I was kind of. Going. Through

19:09

you you know all this writing

19:12

that you've done and then also

19:14

knowing that you're in a season

19:16

where you've been really into art

19:18

and going into art for children

19:20

and having this whole moment. I.

19:23

Just wondered if if that

19:25

salt relevant to you liked

19:28

of that the frustration of.

19:31

People. Expecting all of this

19:33

writing and all of

19:36

this meaning on the

19:38

surface vs wanting to.

19:40

Create. More gaps.

19:43

By. Embedding it and pictures

19:45

or stories like that's a big like

19:48

push and pull that I get frustrated

19:50

with all the time. That.

19:52

Is a really think person paw? I would

19:55

say I don't. I. Think

19:57

I used to shield track.

20:00

A. A career I still.

20:03

And when I see you still, I mean

20:05

you know, within the last few years I.

20:08

Consider. Myself to be incredibly

20:10

lucky to have built. A.

20:13

Career where I support missiles

20:15

and me. Sam worry with my

20:17

creative her. Own It

20:19

took a really, really long time for me

20:22

to be able to leave my dates on.

20:24

It. Took an even longer time for

20:27

me to feel any sort. Of

20:29

trust. In myself and

20:31

me and told a senate to actually

20:33

believe in myself and how's. That.

20:35

Coincidence that whatever,

20:38

Lies. Thera without me and dinner

20:40

and cigarette out. On.

20:44

And. So when I. Arrived

20:46

you know it was. I had my

20:48

first child's ninety three years ago and

20:50

was exactly thirty years ago. And

20:53

when I experience that

20:55

sudden was of sign.

20:58

And also that sudden loss of

21:00

identity. It was such an immediate

21:03

real working. And it wasn't

21:05

aware New to this new person, it was.

21:08

Who am I like? I don't even

21:10

feel. Like a person and I don't

21:12

remember. The person

21:14

I was up her series really far

21:16

away. That is somebody near even here.

21:19

And. Fluids. That

21:21

person. And. In kind

21:23

is he know doing that excavating. Not

21:26

because I wanted to but because it

21:28

was first two. I hate

21:30

That is when I discovered you

21:32

know you have always your heart

21:34

has always thought. In. Children's

21:36

Literature Zoo. The books and

21:39

the writers and artists that

21:41

you admire. And that

21:43

he turned to in moments as

21:45

meeting comforts or with some. Are

21:48

ugly. Flake it there. over in the

21:50

Children in the World. The children's literature.

21:53

And the reason I had not

21:55

pursued it that genre in my.

21:59

In my work and. Berkshire because I

22:01

didn't. Think. I had it. I

22:03

didn't have when it seeks. And.

22:06

Sell. Not really

22:08

forced me to things and said be

22:10

straight with myself and say hey, is

22:12

this a thing? It's you said you've

22:14

got. A lot of lot to learn. You've

22:17

got a lot to work for gone areas.

22:20

As as. Soon

22:22

as you see on with worries you

22:25

can have to learn how to seal

22:27

out on with actors because that is

22:29

fast is not and more. As

22:32

white it takes to

22:35

make a beautiful

22:37

introspect, says and. Long

22:41

lasting block for children and

22:43

for their adult. A

22:55

all real quick. I have a quick

22:57

little favor to ask of you. You

22:59

may or may not know that Twenty

23:01

Twenty Three was a bit of a

23:04

rough time in the world of podcasting,

23:06

and we didn't have hardly any sponsors

23:08

last year and what that means as

23:10

that most episodes we made last year

23:12

actually cost us money to create and

23:14

were a net loss and now we

23:16

have some plans to try to get

23:18

that back on track. but. I

23:21

want to keep making episodes to support

23:24

you in your creative practice. Regardless of

23:26

the state of podcasting, so would

23:28

you consider supporting the show in

23:30

one way or another? There are

23:33

two different options. Number one is

23:35

Patriot on and number two is

23:37

our newly launched subs that if

23:39

you support on either platform you'll

23:42

get access to something new that

23:44

were doing and twenty twenty four

23:46

that I am super excited. A

23:48

bow and it is our lives

23:51

virtual creative pep rallies. Our aim

23:53

is to host a group. Zoom

23:55

every last Monday at a month

23:57

in Twenty twenty four and these

23:59

cause that we've done the past

24:02

with patrons are super special and

24:04

I would they're they've been so

24:06

awesome! Add the demand has been

24:08

high so we have decided to

24:10

try to make them a monthly

24:12

saying where we share wins and

24:14

discuss the places where restock and

24:16

also do connect you an A's

24:19

Around recent episodes I've always wanted

24:21

to have like more employ and

24:23

community and discussion and kind of

24:25

fear your side when making the

24:27

show and this seems kind of

24:29

like. The best way do that

24:31

in my own creative practice. Nothing

24:33

has helped me more than getting

24:35

alongside people. They're actually doing this.

24:38

Thanks And these calls with these

24:40

artists and creators and riders and

24:42

filmmakers from every stage in the

24:44

creative journey have been really great

24:46

for that. Ah for me personally.

24:49

On subs that I will also be

24:51

sharing behind the scenes stuff. So if

24:53

you're a long time list or the

24:55

shelves or Europe and and advanced kind

24:57

of stayed in your practice this might

24:59

be extra useful to you because unlike

25:01

on the podcast for I'm mostly talking

25:03

about things that I've done in tested

25:05

in the past, these posts will give

25:07

you a window into the creative work

25:09

and strategies and next steps that I'm

25:12

exploring in real time. So while also

25:14

be all a have space to have

25:16

conversations about it right as it's happening

25:18

or before I even create. Any thanks

25:20

I'm in a gives your window and

25:22

two pound thinking what I'm doing right

25:24

in this moment south. This also might

25:26

be interesting to you if you just

25:28

know the about the stuff that I

25:30

do or you want to be the

25:32

first to hear about staff and and

25:34

get an early before others. Here's a

25:37

quick snippets of the audio version of

25:39

our first paid post called Riding On

25:41

Stage for Secret Projects I'm currently working

25:43

on. Here goes. Much.

25:47

Of the details on

25:50

the podcasts and. That's.

25:52

Been really frustrating because the

25:54

podcast is one of the

25:56

places where I work out

25:59

new material. They also have a

26:01

handful of things that have been

26:03

in the works for different amounts

26:05

of time and they are all

26:08

at various stages. The first one

26:10

as a project on cause or

26:12

I'd bet than I can even

26:14

tell you what that project has

26:16

called oxalates. ah I'm getting you

26:18

can go to any J Pizza.subs

26:21

tax.com and that post has a

26:23

preview and you can check out

26:25

a little bit of including what

26:27

that first project as and you

26:29

can. Sign up to the patriotic

26:32

he drowned at times I've created

26:34

pep talk either way of see

26:36

you at our lives Zoom At

26:38

the end of the month we

26:40

are gonna start this month. Lead

26:42

sat in practice that hopefully give

26:45

you some momentum and some accountability

26:47

and even potentially a little bit

26:49

a creative community all of Twenty

26:51

Twenty Four. That's it. Thanks everybody!

26:53

For those who have already supported

26:55

the shelves years, you are making

26:58

this possible. Status. I

27:08

wanted to tell you something. When

27:12

I was doesn't back into

27:14

your works I was looking

27:16

through your instagram and I

27:19

came across. See image

27:21

that you dead. That.

27:23

Was an illustrated poem. That.

27:25

Has a giant bird on it and then

27:28

like a little said gear. To. Know the

27:30

one that I'm talking about. Is.

27:32

That the problem about November.

27:36

Ah, I'm not sure it was a it's sad

27:38

at other. Giant Bird Allegiance. Yes, I know

27:40

we're talking about. yes, they have that with

27:42

me. Yeah. I just

27:44

wanted to tell you that when I saw

27:46

that. I. Was like oh my

27:49

gosh. I. Had saved that.

27:51

As like. Just an

27:54

incredible children's book illustration. Like

27:56

something that only Guy is

27:58

incredibly and. The rain

28:00

and I didn't realize that

28:03

you had made it. Also

28:06

when I saw it I was like.

28:09

What I was like that's the same person

28:11

and I was like oh man the and

28:13

and then as I might. Begin Yen

28:15

and hearing that you're making that pay the

28:17

and that you know it's been a big

28:20

undertaking that's been kind of overwhelming. I thought

28:22

oh my gosh, I I have to tell

28:24

her why you got it. I get that

28:26

that thing I just thought was incredible and

28:29

it. Definitely. Feels

28:31

like it comes from a place of.

28:34

Natural. Like expression so us

28:36

I just wanted to share that I'll

28:38

have a question about it. I just

28:40

wanted you to know that that was

28:42

my experience. Think.

28:44

It means a great deal to

28:47

me and. And I

28:49

I t feel like not work.

28:51

It is accompanied by a problem

28:53

that I wrote. About

28:55

my grandmother and it felt like

28:57

a true you can max and

29:00

you know what? we're officer. For

29:02

you're using visual language and britain

29:05

marine glance to town. Different.

29:07

Parts and one story or one

29:10

moments and I felt that. It

29:12

I I reached that point you're not work which

29:15

out there it has it all for me. Can.

29:18

You would you mind telling us a

29:20

little bit ablow. About. That

29:22

piece about the poem about

29:24

what why what you sell

29:26

was creatively successful or interesting

29:29

about it. Yeah.

29:31

Accelerate You know it was

29:33

thought project Press Me. To.

29:36

Work and think differently. So my goal

29:38

is for new. I've been working really

29:40

hard at can kill your picture. Anywhere

29:43

Murray I light first and then

29:45

a seeker out by his image.

29:47

I can it be? How can

29:49

a bring into free ingram. Said.

29:52

The story that I am already written. And

29:54

in this p switches it's like. Porter,

29:57

She won by. He

29:59

didn't. Paul you know it's a

30:01

panoramic. yeah I drew been sire thing

30:04

First I did not have a story.

30:06

And he I just. I lead

30:08

it with the imagery. A

30:10

like moments and symbols kind of or

30:13

money and come to me and nature

30:15

is a seizure. And he

30:17

wrote a poem after, and it was so,

30:19

too. I mean I thought

30:21

like I just learned. How to write

30:24

and fight like it felt so. Monumental

30:27

a three use my brain.

30:29

In. Their way that was so

30:31

different from how you know. Isn't

30:33

that funny? And to

30:35

know that this could be. Natural.

30:38

A To learn to work like this. There

30:42

was surprising yourself you know about

30:44

his. Vote. I

30:47

there's. No words like is there a greater

30:49

feeling in life than when you surprise yourself on

30:51

a surprise medical. About.

30:54

Has incredible and I I didn't.

30:56

you know even know how rich

30:58

that was for you but I

31:00

felt that when I saw it

31:02

as. An hour

31:04

I would just kind of

31:06

blown away when I realized

31:08

as the same same person

31:11

on and also at the

31:13

gets interesting. It gets that

31:15

a few different threads that

31:17

I really relate to and

31:19

I sigurd colored juicy creatively

31:21

one as. Ah at

31:23

it reminds me of. A

31:26

project. That I did that was

31:28

really pivotal for me. Aware.

31:31

I looking back the way I

31:33

would describe it as what like

31:35

a psycho analyst cause active imagination

31:38

which is. Basically. What

31:40

you just said which is like

31:42

letting symbols and sang come to

31:44

you without knowing their meaning in

31:46

a kind of waking dream stay

31:48

where you just like letting that

31:50

stuff comes but it can be

31:52

through your just he they're saying

31:54

it, writing it or making art

31:56

and a really big project for

31:58

me. The ended up. Leading to

32:00

some important work was where I

32:03

was doing this. Daily.

32:05

With characters without really

32:07

knowing what they were.

32:09

And. It was such a huge

32:11

moment because like you. I.

32:14

Started my creative practice through the

32:16

lens as I want to make

32:18

this a career. And. I that

32:20

took me some places. But. I hit

32:22

a wall. Because. A

32:25

the A It didn't It

32:27

wasn't being led from a

32:29

place of self expression. It

32:31

was being led by. The.

32:33

Market. And. Yeah

32:35

and so yeah. I and I'm

32:37

getting ready. And

32:40

getting ready to enter a whole season

32:42

of the show. That's. About.

32:45

Taking a break from. Making.

32:48

For ah, for a living are

32:50

trying to make money or whatever

32:52

and making me out to fuck.

32:54

Find things within yourself and find

32:56

yourself as well as learning to.

32:59

Express yourself in a way that feels

33:02

sufficient and feals powerful to you. and

33:04

saw was really excited to talk to

33:06

you because I feel like these are

33:08

all the same kind, the things that

33:10

you're. You. Play and or yeah,

33:13

been exploring. I. Am I

33:15

not for a I could not

33:17

be more agreement. Ironman. In.

33:19

A place where I my questions. He's.

33:21

Got to can't to and these kids

33:23

want you all the time and there

33:25

but so small. And you

33:28

know I'm sure you'll notice. Could attack

33:30

that says they'll be. You have three

33:32

kids. And I am I

33:34

would love to know what how are

33:36

can still see me can't work like

33:39

I'm in total admiration and you guys

33:41

says that the. While. I can

33:43

also. Yes, Actually, I might see birth.

33:45

Three can play, can't can't even.

33:48

Bikini. Than it's low mana as

33:50

they not a parrot it's hard

33:52

to even understand what happens when

33:54

you have kids in that way

33:56

He I I will say that

33:58

and this is. Maybe I'm and

34:01

everybody's experiences just really different

34:03

so who who knows. But

34:05

I will say once we

34:07

didn't have any kids under

34:10

five. It quit be

34:12

an all consuming. And.

34:14

Center Right now we've got a fifteen

34:17

year old, eleven year old and a

34:19

year old and some crazy was primarily

34:21

like. You now the

34:24

primary care. Search

34:27

for of at at during those

34:29

times. but even so, it was

34:31

really consuming every square inch that

34:33

we weren't working Am. whereas like

34:35

once they're a little over five

34:37

with are all in school it

34:39

really felt like I'd never now

34:42

that I would have this side

34:44

of myself back. Yes, I definitely

34:46

think that that's a pretty big

34:48

factor. Yeah. That is

34:50

that is gets know if you for

34:52

sharing minor. Very, you know minor very

34:54

far Three and six months. He

34:56

sounds. We aren't

34:59

any and I simultaneous free

35:01

fear on. Am

35:04

I going? tier? Even.

35:07

Remember: parts of me felt that feels

35:09

so far away right now like. He.

35:11

Now will I Will they come

35:13

back when you know my childhood.

35:15

Five. Or as a just

35:17

like kind a gun and mean you can't

35:20

say goodbye lifestyle can. Yeah,

35:22

self sufficiency high and I and

35:24

I will. I'll I Love. As

35:28

I think that. I've.

35:30

Heard you talk about this in a

35:32

way. I was. Making. Peace

35:34

with. Not having all

35:36

pieces of yourself in every

35:38

season and I think yeah

35:40

that is. Just. A really

35:43

profound idea that is really

35:45

important for creators of you

35:47

know, moving through just different

35:49

sizes. But. I

35:52

wanted to talk about your

35:54

new journal. A. Bow. Building

35:58

self confidence because it sounds like

36:00

a kind of as. One.

36:02

Of those things where. You. Know

36:04

sometimes we make as as saying from

36:06

a place as. Oh. This

36:09

is something I've worked through, figured out

36:11

and here's how that works. And then

36:13

there are times where a create from

36:15

a place of this is what I'm

36:17

moving through. These are the things that

36:20

are you helping me? How your own

36:22

way seems like. Me: You

36:24

know based on you talking about building

36:26

self confidence the latter of something like

36:28

I made this to figure this out

36:31

as that giving. That's true. And.

36:33

Thoughtful. Hm. this of me for external

36:35

are and for all of sudden. They

36:37

have always been that I am wanna

36:40

write about is the one that I

36:42

knew at that time. Yeah. And

36:44

I discovered that are away with these

36:46

books in on his books that are

36:48

primarily South Park for adults. I

36:51

discovered that very quickly that it's it

36:53

is it is gonna help anybody. It.

36:56

Has to help me. First asked to

36:58

comment as be written has to be

37:00

drawn from a Prius server at Mars.

37:03

Honesty and vulnerability A said

37:05

even has the tiniest hope

37:08

as being beneficial to somebody

37:10

else. Own. And

37:13

sell go your own way. I

37:15

was in my second year of

37:17

grad school. I was pregnant

37:19

with my second child. I

37:21

list hearing. You know what? I

37:23

think. I don't know how other

37:25

people will react upon hearing less

37:27

because. I know that I

37:29

has a career and that I had.

37:32

Several. Books out. The. Same

37:34

meal can make a kid there. And

37:37

to say. You

37:39

know, and minute kind of. Start.

37:42

Taking money. the work that.

37:45

Not. Only nurses me created every

37:47

but. Please. You know, in

37:49

my mortgage and t it's. Nice.

37:52

Here Marine. And I'm gonna

37:54

take the time. The years, To.

37:56

Make up a bunch of crap

37:58

you were. With. Just.

38:01

Singing on the coke that one day.

38:04

It will take me to where I

38:06

want to go. That was

38:08

really. Frightening to me. And

38:10

it. Still is because. It's

38:13

no longer a just in lieu. Of

38:16

meeting the survives you know I've got

38:18

three other people under the series. And

38:21

not only. Pragmatic And you

38:24

know, food and clothing. All of that,

38:26

say, When. Your work is

38:28

you. When v you know

38:30

that? The Art. That

38:33

the writing is some necessary

38:35

for my it around. Emotional

38:38

and mental survival. When.

38:41

All of those are combines

38:43

and. Only. You're

38:47

dependent. You're dependent on your

38:49

creativity for so many different things. It.

38:51

Is extremely. Pearson.

38:54

And to say. I think

38:56

I mean our throw it away. And

38:59

try something new. So.

39:02

I was in a. Really big

39:04

places and security A Really big

39:07

places. Can I do it? What

39:09

happens if I can't deal? And. Who

39:12

are all the people in disappointing

39:15

including myself? And the

39:17

other part of this is that I

39:19

lives. In grad school with a

39:21

bunch said. And Michael where

39:23

it is like in their early twenties, you

39:25

know, They're They have

39:28

the confidence. Of. The

39:30

twenty year old. Which. Is unbeatable.

39:32

You see or compete with that

39:34

issues as it is. It

39:39

is such a different papers. And.

39:42

Invincibility? You know which? Yeah,

39:44

It's. Awesome! And that I

39:46

was very aware that I did not have it.

39:51

In my tears were so different from theirs than

39:53

what I wanted from the program. was so different.

39:56

From. what they were searching for and

39:58

neither was better or worse, they were

40:00

just really different. And

40:02

so I did feel very alone. I

40:05

felt very isolated. I'd go to class,

40:07

I'd come home, and

40:09

be with my toddler, and try

40:11

to take care of myself, because

40:14

I was pregnant, and I was

40:16

writing this journal to kind of reevaluate,

40:21

rediscover, I

40:23

am a new person now, what are my values?

40:25

What are my priorities? What do I

40:27

want from my life? And do

40:29

I have the guts to

40:32

go after it? And

40:34

if I don't, will anybody

40:37

except for me care? If

40:40

I don't make this work, does

40:43

anybody else care? And

40:45

the answer for me at least was no.

40:49

Nobody cares if you make

40:51

children's work. No one's gonna make it for you.

40:54

And nobody is really going to figure

40:56

out how to have this space

40:58

and time for you to do that. You

41:00

have to do that. If it's

41:02

important to you, if it's what you want. And

41:07

so writing this journal helped

41:09

me re-prioritize. It

41:11

helped me discover which values that

41:13

I've always held. Am

41:15

I gonna take with me moving forward? Which

41:18

ones aren't serving me any longer? Which ones

41:20

just aren't part of this new person that

41:22

I am? And

41:24

what's gonna replace them? And

41:29

that's really

41:31

interesting in terms of, I

41:35

mean, it's interesting on all levels, but one of the things

41:37

that stands out is it's such

41:39

a different way of thinking about

41:42

the stuff that you're making. Like

41:44

making this journal from a place

41:46

of not, I think

41:48

it's easy to fall into the trap

41:50

as a creator to think, I

41:53

will make this thing when I

41:55

have the statement or

41:57

this is the answer. versus

42:00

I need to make this thing to

42:02

work this out. This is what I'm

42:04

trying to work through. I

42:07

try to encourage that in

42:09

my own practice, but it's not

42:11

easy. But it's

42:13

so interesting to hear the

42:16

kind of, I'm always also interested

42:18

in how the personal and the professional

42:20

kind of work in tandem to

42:23

hear that this shift in

42:25

your own career, which I massively

42:27

relate to. This

42:30

idea that the first part of your career,

42:32

you're constantly worried like, am I ever gonna

42:34

make it? And then the second

42:36

you make it, you're like, am I gonna lose it?

42:38

Or whatever it is. And

42:41

can I make new decisions? And

42:44

can I continue to follow the thing that

42:46

led me here? So

42:48

I totally relate to that.

42:51

But with this journal, is

42:54

there one thing or

42:56

maybe a couple things that come to

42:59

mind, practices,

43:01

exercises, questions from

43:04

this body of work that

43:06

really made the biggest impact on

43:09

you or has

43:11

stuck with you until now? I

43:14

think that I don't, it

43:17

feels this way to say this, but

43:20

I think the heart of

43:23

confidence is loving

43:25

yourself. Yeah. And

43:28

that, it sounds, I

43:32

don't know, it sounds cheesy, I

43:35

guess, right? And it

43:37

also sounds like something that

43:39

can be easily dismissed. Like, of course they love

43:41

me though. In

43:45

practice, loving yourself the

43:47

way you love your

43:49

partner or your children or your

43:52

family and your friends or

43:54

the earth and animals, it's

43:57

really, really hard. It's really hard not

43:59

to be confident. Instantly self-critical.

44:02

It's really hard to

44:04

not cut yourself down under the guise

44:06

of higher expectations

44:09

or Saying

44:11

well, I push myself to be better

44:14

to you know to work harder and

44:19

To do that without kindness or

44:21

without grace or without

44:24

being gentle I think that can

44:26

be really hard at least for me and there I

44:28

can be it a really

44:30

critical tough love kind of

44:32

person and I

44:35

either you know can pride myself on

44:37

being that kind of person and not

44:40

always realizing that You

44:43

know a little more kindness towards myself

44:45

would go a long way a little

44:47

bit of Cutting myself a

44:49

little bit of slack seeing Maybe

44:52

you are doing the best you can do right

44:55

now and that's okay I

44:57

don't get that to myself and

44:59

that's some things that I'm working on and making

45:03

this journal really clarified

45:05

for me You've

45:08

gotta learn how to

45:10

love yourself in practice not

45:12

just in theory Not

45:14

just through words, but

45:16

in practice how to really look at yourself

45:18

in the mirror and be

45:21

right. I like that guy I Think

45:25

I think that person is

45:27

cool And I think that person

45:29

is smart and I think

45:31

that person goes out into the world and Tries

45:34

to help and tries to make

45:36

the world better That's

45:39

really important and what I think that's hard for

45:41

a lot of us to do we we put

45:43

our efforts elsewhere into

45:45

other people Into the

45:47

year, you know into our communities, but

45:50

it also needs to go towards

45:52

us And it needs to

45:54

go towards us before it's too late. I Couldn't

45:58

agree more In fact,

46:02

I think in terms

46:04

of creativity, that self-love

46:07

manifests as self-curiosity

46:10

as well. And,

46:13

you know, you started out saying, well,

46:15

maybe it's kind of cheesy or whatever.

46:18

But what you don't know is that

46:20

the story that I've been telling about kind

46:23

of finding my creative voice

46:26

and also reckoning like some

46:28

personal relationships, talking about

46:30

my mom, and I've been telling these stories and

46:32

working through this stuff on stage and on the

46:34

show for years. And

46:37

the conclusion that I came to,

46:39

and I've mentioned this in

46:42

a small talk that probably only

46:44

a few people have seen from last year, and

46:47

it's kind of the central idea of the series

46:49

that I'm doing in the new year, is

46:52

that, you know, art

46:54

is self-expression and you can't love your

46:56

art if you hate the

46:59

thing that it is

47:01

an expression of, which is

47:03

yourself. And

47:05

you have to, and I think

47:07

that for me, the big pivot

47:09

in my creative practice came from

47:12

shifting my world view from,

47:16

I am a bad thing that needs

47:18

to be worked on and, you know,

47:21

repressed and whatever, like

47:24

squeezed into a mold of what

47:27

the world wants or whatever, to

47:29

really shifting to my primary foundational

47:32

belief about myself is, I

47:35

am a good thing to cultivate, to

47:37

be interested in. If you don't have

47:39

that mindset, you're not

47:41

going to be curious about what's inside

47:43

you. You're not going to think, you're

47:45

not even going to give yourself time

47:47

to make stuff, because why

47:50

would you? If all the stuff in

47:52

you isn't interesting or good or whatever,

47:55

why would you allow yourself the time

47:58

to let that stuff out? You

48:00

know, I totally

48:03

totally agree. I actually I have

48:05

two things to say in response.

48:09

Yeah, one is that You

48:12

know, I listen to creative pep

48:14

talk a lot. I love I love this

48:16

show. I see huge honor to

48:18

be here I think yeah, I think you're

48:21

so grounded

48:23

in a human experience Which

48:26

is so thanks. I don't want to say

48:29

nice Nice to blasé of

48:31

a word. It's so

48:33

refreshing. It's so It's

48:37

like an embrace. You're very pragmatic You

48:40

are Optimistic but

48:42

honest, you know you say this

48:45

requires work You're gonna

48:47

have to do the work like there's no

48:49

shortcut But if

48:51

you want to and if you're willing

48:53

to put in the effort You'll

48:56

get somewhere and I think

48:58

that is what we as people definitely

49:00

but also as creatives like that's really

49:03

You know all of the episodes like finding your

49:05

creative spark finding your voice all these things

49:07

like it all comes down to

49:10

that basic philosophy which is if

49:13

you want it and you're gonna put the

49:15

time and curiosity and effort into it you're

49:17

gonna have it it's Inevitable

49:19

and this new work that you're talking

49:21

about in a new year Which is maybe

49:24

less of chasing the external the

49:26

career This fails

49:28

the accolades all of that and

49:31

more of chasing the internal, you

49:33

know, who am I what is? Important

49:35

which do I feel is

49:37

important or unique about me?

49:40

That is so much of what is in go your

49:43

own way and that is so

49:45

much of what I'm doing right now which

49:47

is Part

49:49

of you know buzzing yourself is

49:51

saying, you know, this is my voice

49:54

You know, I can look at your work and I

49:56

can look at all these other artists that I admire

49:58

and say I wish it was like them.

50:00

I wish I felt like them. I wish when I

50:02

drew a line it looks like that line. But

50:06

learning to love yourself is about,

50:08

hey, I've got my own philosophy.

50:11

I've got a lens that I

50:13

see the world through. And I have,

50:15

I have

50:17

values, I have opinions, I have

50:20

a perspective. And

50:22

I'm going to work on learning

50:24

how to express that in a

50:26

way that feels

50:28

genuine and authentic to

50:30

me. And that is my

50:33

responsibility, you know, to myself and the

50:35

world. Not how to figure out

50:37

how to be somebody else, but

50:39

how to figure out how to be in

50:42

a way that maybe,

50:46

you know, depending on what your priorities, but

50:48

like that could be in service of

50:50

others through your work. Yeah.

50:54

And I, when

50:57

it comes to the book,

51:00

is there any, is there

51:02

any practice or particular

51:04

question or exercise that

51:08

has helped you

51:11

cultivate that self-love

51:14

and self curiosity?

51:20

There are a couple of

51:23

prompts where

51:25

I ask readers to

51:27

identify thoughts that are, you know,

51:29

a doubtful thought, like one that

51:31

kind of ingrains

51:34

doubt, disappointment, second guessing

51:37

in yourself. And

51:39

I asked them to counter it with an

51:42

encouraging thought. How can you take

51:44

the same sentiment and

51:46

spin it into a way that makes

51:49

you want to try, makes

51:52

you believe that things could be different,

51:54

that you could be different. And

51:57

that is one that I find myself using

51:59

in every way. everyday life, primarily

52:03

because I am a parent and I have

52:06

to use language with my children

52:09

that encourages them to

52:11

do things differently. Not

52:14

that makes them feel like they have

52:16

to for reasons outside of themselves. It's

52:19

got to be internal. The motivation has

52:21

to be internal always because

52:24

whatever external thing you're leaning

52:26

on or you're chasing, that

52:29

can disappear at any moment. But

52:32

if you have a fire, if you have learned

52:34

how to build and tend to

52:36

the fire inside you, that

52:40

will always guide you. It will always

52:42

push you forward in life and definitely

52:45

in your creative way. That's

52:47

what's going to keep you going. Yeah,

52:50

I agree completely. I think a

52:53

great example of that

52:55

that you've already kind of covered is

52:57

this notion that you

53:02

know that you think in words, you

53:04

know that writing is comfortable to you,

53:06

but making the

53:09

leap with the

53:12

self-confidence and kind of

53:16

permission to make a picture

53:18

first without the words is

53:21

a great example of not

53:25

just buying into, oh, this

53:28

is who you are, this is who you'll always

53:30

be and allowing yourself

53:32

to surprise yourself. That's

53:37

kind of the thing that came to mind was

53:41

you've had to allow yourself to do that of,

53:44

well, this idea that,

53:47

oh, this making pictures will always be

53:49

unnatural to you because you think in

53:51

words and then

53:53

you allowed yourself the

53:56

space to prove that voice wrong and

53:58

let pictures come to you. And

54:00

it's a great example of kind of

54:03

unpicking those doubts

54:06

with hope and yeah, curiosity

54:10

of well maybe that isn't true, let's give it

54:12

a whirl, you know? Right,

54:14

right. And also, you know, accepting

54:17

that feeling and like being terrible at

54:19

something, like that's part of the game.

54:21

Just getting comfortable with that, not giving it

54:24

another thought, you know, making a crappy drawing

54:26

and being like that's a crappy drawing, I'm

54:28

gonna make another one now. And

54:30

just kind of, I think, strengthening

54:33

that resilience against

54:35

failure or disappointment. Yeah,

54:38

definitely. And it's also,

54:40

I'm glad that you brought up the parenting

54:43

aspect because I think it's really

54:49

powerful when you become a parent.

54:52

It unlocks a

54:55

different way of parenting your inner

54:57

child. Like I'm really interested in,

55:00

I've started just recently

55:02

seeing how some

55:05

of the parenting information

55:07

that I consume, whether

55:10

it's social media or writing or whatever,

55:12

oh, all these

55:14

things apply to my

55:16

inner self and, you know,

55:19

how I view that. And so I

55:22

just instantly saw parallels there where you're

55:25

doing this for your kids, but at

55:27

the same time you're realizing like, oh,

55:29

yeah, that's how I should speak to

55:31

the vulnerable new parts

55:34

of myself. Like I

55:36

thought about how I had Maggie Smith

55:38

on this show and she

55:40

wrote a book in

55:42

the pandemic about a divorce. And

55:45

I, in that conversation,

55:47

we were talking about how everyone

55:50

went through types of divorces in

55:52

the pandemic, whether it was marriage

55:54

or with it, whatever the old

55:56

life was, like that happened. Your

56:00

story I thought was really,

56:03

there's a good kind of

56:05

mirror with that because you

56:08

had your first baby right at the start

56:10

of the pandemic. And everybody also had

56:13

birthed new things. They found new things

56:16

about themselves and new bits of their

56:18

lives started. And

56:20

those new vulnerable pieces of

56:23

yourself need to be parented

56:25

gently. Yeah. Yeah,

56:27

I love that. Yeah,

56:29

that you brought it

56:31

into that framework. I

56:34

wanted to say I feel the

56:37

same way. I read a lot

56:39

of literature on parenting, raising

56:42

siblings, things like that. And

56:44

you do quickly learn that the language

56:46

and the philosophies that you're using to

56:49

try and parent in

56:51

trying to be a good, nurturing

56:53

caregiver, they all apply to you.

56:57

And it's essential

57:00

that you apply them to

57:02

yourself. Maybe

57:04

not first, you got to do it alongside, you

57:06

know, the kids already there. You have to do

57:08

it while you're learning how to parent, but you

57:11

have to do it because if you

57:13

apply it to yourself, you're changing and

57:17

you're giving nourishment to the parts

57:19

of yourself that can then

57:22

give to your children that

57:24

will be able to do so. Absolutely.

57:28

The last question I have is,

57:30

is there a part of this

57:35

journal or one of your more

57:37

recent books that has

57:41

an aspect that you're really

57:43

particularly excited about

57:45

or proud of that you haven't been

57:47

asked about or had a space

57:50

to talk about? Oh,

57:53

that's an interesting question. I

57:55

will say I had a book of short

57:57

essays come out in May called, I will

57:59

say. you'll step on yourself. Yeah,

58:01

I like that. It's great. Oh,

58:03

you do. Thank you. It

58:07

pairs paint palettes with

58:09

short essays. And I

58:13

just feel particularly proud of

58:15

the work because it is, to

58:18

me, very unassuming.

58:20

It's just a collection of moments

58:25

throughout your life that end up

58:27

being really pivotal transitions

58:29

and that we can feel really

58:31

stoopkin. If I'm thinking

58:33

about when that applies to me, the loss

58:36

of the friend, like you were saying, through

58:39

the pandemic, we have all had

58:41

divorces on very

58:44

different levels of extreme. And

58:47

I lost a couple of

58:49

friends, whether

58:51

it was through the pandemic or becoming

58:53

a parent and just having a huge

58:55

light shift. And I

58:57

really had a difficult time

58:59

with that. And I thought, surely, as somebody

59:02

in my mid-30s, this isn't

59:04

something that should affect me this

59:06

deeply and this greatly. And

59:09

I wrote about it, and

59:11

it is in the book. And

59:14

when I think about this

59:16

book in particular and how it is

59:19

a collection of tiny

59:21

moments that all add

59:24

up to the human experience

59:27

and that encompasses

59:29

loss and joy and

59:32

grief and sorrow

59:34

and strength, I think

59:36

I just feel

59:40

gratitude for being able

59:42

to experience such

59:44

a wide spectrum of

59:46

emotion. And in

59:49

my work, I hope to help

59:51

others feel comfortable experiencing

59:54

the same, to not always

59:56

play a role. one

1:00:01

emotion as greater or

1:00:03

more valuable than another. Because

1:00:07

we can learn from all of them

1:00:09

certainly, and that's

1:00:11

a positive way to look at it, but

1:00:13

also just to have the ability

1:00:15

to feel all of those things. And

1:00:19

like you touched on earlier, to figure out

1:00:21

how to pour that into your creative

1:00:24

work. I think that's what

1:00:26

makes it special. And that's what makes

1:00:28

each of us so unique and special.

1:00:33

Well, that was a great way

1:00:35

to end it. And

1:00:37

I just wanna say thanks for, first

1:00:40

and foremost, I feel

1:00:43

like your career and

1:00:45

your work is a

1:00:48

testament to how effort

1:00:53

and intention and discipline

1:00:57

can make such a tremendous

1:00:59

impact to your creative practice.

1:01:02

I think your dedication over

1:01:04

the years that you've been

1:01:06

pursuing this have paid off in

1:01:09

these incredible ways. And I think it

1:01:11

really shines a

1:01:13

light to creators who, I

1:01:15

think we often have a natural leaning

1:01:18

towards the idea that if I'm

1:01:20

talented enough, this should be easy and kind of

1:01:22

come to me. And I think your

1:01:25

practice really shows what

1:01:28

intention and discipline can bring. But

1:01:30

then on the flip side, this

1:01:32

kind of new chapter in your

1:01:34

life is also

1:01:36

a great guiding

1:01:38

light to

1:01:41

allow yourself to also ease into

1:01:44

what you're passionate about and

1:01:46

take risks and trust yourself.

1:01:49

And yeah, I'm just

1:01:52

thrilled that you got to share

1:01:55

those things and those examples with the

1:01:57

listeners. So thanks for doing this. Oh,

1:02:00

thank you, Andy. I gotta say, I wanted

1:02:02

to tell you that I'm honored to be

1:02:05

on the podcast. I genuinely listen

1:02:08

to it all the time. Thank you. And

1:02:10

I take, Frida is my six months old,

1:02:12

and we take a walk every morning. And

1:02:15

she basically screams in the

1:02:17

stroller, like, at me for

1:02:19

an hour while I listen

1:02:22

to an episode. And it

1:02:26

is so joyful. It's such a joyful experience.

1:02:29

And I think you

1:02:31

and Sophie are wonderful. And I bet

1:02:33

your kids are pretty awesome. So

1:02:36

thank you so much for having me. Thank

1:02:38

you. Thank you. That just means a ton.

1:03:21

All right, I'm back. I just want to

1:03:23

say massive thanks to Miralee Patel for being

1:03:25

on the show. Hopefully, we get to talk

1:03:28

again soon. And I want

1:03:30

to leave you with a call to

1:03:32

adventure, creative call to action today. And

1:03:35

I'm calling it flip the script.

1:03:38

In this episode, we talk about

1:03:40

how there was a breakthrough for

1:03:42

Mira when she approached a piece

1:03:45

of work without starting with words.

1:03:48

And so maybe you could just be mindful

1:03:50

the next time you create something and

1:03:52

come at the process from the opposite

1:03:55

end. Just flip the script, flip the

1:03:57

whole process. So if you're a musician,

1:04:00

Maybe you start with normally

1:04:02

just, you know, word salad, mumbling

1:04:04

a melody, and then you put

1:04:06

lyrics to it later. What would

1:04:08

it look like to start with

1:04:10

lyrics and then try to make

1:04:12

a melody out of it? It

1:04:14

might not completely change your process.

1:04:17

It might not be something you

1:04:19

do ever again, but that

1:04:21

experience for me has been helpful

1:04:23

to getting me out of a

1:04:26

groove that has turned into a rut

1:04:28

or even a block. And

1:04:31

so just give it a shot. Try

1:04:33

to come at your creative process upside

1:04:35

down and flip the script. You

1:04:37

might be surprised what happens.

1:04:47

Creative Pet Talk is your weekly podcast

1:04:49

companion for your creative journey. I'm your

1:04:51

host, Andy J. Pizza. I'm a New

1:04:53

York Times bestselling picture book maker and

1:04:55

illustrator for clients like Apple and Xbox.

1:04:58

I pet talk teens at creative hubs like

1:05:00

Warby Parker and Sesame Street, and I make

1:05:02

this podcast because as someone with ADHD, it

1:05:05

takes a whole lot of creativity just

1:05:07

to get out of bed in the

1:05:09

morning, let alone attempting to try to

1:05:11

create a thriving creative practice. This

1:05:13

show is just me sharing the things that seem

1:05:15

to be helping me in case it helps anybody

1:05:17

else. Shout out to

1:05:19

Yoni Wolf and the band Y for our

1:05:22

theme music and soundtrack. Huge thanks to Connor

1:05:24

Jones of Pinning Beautiful for sound design and

1:05:26

editing the show. Massive

1:05:29

thanks to Katie Chandler, Ryan Appleton,

1:05:31

and Sophie Miller for podcast assistance

1:05:33

of all kinds. And thanks to

1:05:35

you for listening. Until we speak

1:05:37

again, stay pep talk. All

1:05:58

right. Hey

1:06:01

y'all, real quick, I have a quick little

1:06:03

favor to ask of you. You

1:06:05

may or may not know that 2023 was

1:06:07

a bit of a rough time in the

1:06:09

world of podcasting and we

1:06:11

didn't have hardly any sponsors last year.

1:06:13

And what that means is that most

1:06:15

episodes we made last year actually cost

1:06:18

us money to create and we're in

1:06:20

that loss. And now

1:06:22

we have some plans to try to get that

1:06:24

back on track, but I

1:06:27

want to keep making episodes to support you

1:06:29

and your creative practice regardless of the

1:06:31

state of podcasting. So would

1:06:34

you consider supporting the show in

1:06:36

one way or another? There are

1:06:38

two different options. Number

1:06:40

one is Patreon and number

1:06:42

two is our newly launched

1:06:44

sub stack. If you

1:06:46

support on either platform, you'll get

1:06:49

access to something new that we're

1:06:51

doing in 2024 that I am

1:06:53

super excited about. And it is

1:06:55

our live virtual creative pep rallies.

1:06:58

Our aim is to host a group

1:07:00

zoom every last Monday of

1:07:02

the month in 2024. And

1:07:05

these calls that we've done in the past

1:07:07

with patrons are super special

1:07:09

and they've been so

1:07:12

awesome and the demand has

1:07:14

been high. So we have decided

1:07:16

to try to make them a monthly thing

1:07:18

where we share wins and discuss the places

1:07:21

where we're stuck and also do kind of

1:07:23

Q and A's around recent episodes. I've

1:07:25

always wanted to have like more

1:07:28

input and community and discussion

1:07:30

and kind of hear your side when making

1:07:32

the show. And this seems kind of like

1:07:34

the best way to do that. In

1:07:37

my own creative practice, nothing has helped

1:07:39

me more than getting alongside people that

1:07:41

are actually doing this thing. And

1:07:44

these calls with these artists and creators

1:07:46

and writers and filmmakers from every stage

1:07:48

in the creative journey have been really

1:07:52

great for me personally. On

1:07:55

substack, I will also be sharing behind the scenes stuff.

1:07:57

So if you're a long time listener to the show,

1:07:59

I'll be right back. or you're

1:08:01

in an advanced kind of stage in your

1:08:03

practice, this might be extra useful to you

1:08:05

because unlike on the podcast where I'm mostly

1:08:08

talking about things that I've done and tested

1:08:10

in the past, these posts will

1:08:12

give you a window into the creative work

1:08:14

and strategies and next steps that I'm exploring

1:08:16

in real time. So we'll

1:08:19

also be able to have space to

1:08:21

have conversations about it right as it's

1:08:23

happening or before I even create anything.

1:08:26

And it gives you a window into how

1:08:28

I'm thinking and what I'm doing right in

1:08:30

this moment. So this also might be interesting

1:08:32

to you if you're just nosy about the

1:08:34

stuff that I do or you wanna be

1:08:36

the first to hear about stuff and

1:08:39

get it early before others. Here's a

1:08:41

quick snippet of the audio version of

1:08:43

our first paid post. It's called Writing

1:08:45

on Stage, Four Secret Projects I'm Currently

1:08:47

Working On. Here it goes. Much

1:08:53

of the details on the podcast

1:08:56

and that's been really

1:08:58

frustrating because the podcast is one

1:09:01

of the places where I

1:09:03

work out new material. So I

1:09:05

have a handful of things that

1:09:08

have been in the works for

1:09:10

different amounts of time and

1:09:13

they are all at various

1:09:15

stages. The first

1:09:18

one is a project I'm calling.

1:09:21

All right, that's it. I can't even

1:09:23

tell you what that project is called.

1:09:25

Actually, I'm kidding. You can go to

1:09:27

andyjpizza.substack.com and that post has a preview

1:09:29

and you can check out a little

1:09:31

bit of it including what that first

1:09:33

project is and you can

1:09:36

sign up to the Patreon at

1:09:38

patreon.com/creativepeptalk. Either way, hope to see

1:09:40

you at our live Zoom at

1:09:42

the end of the month. We

1:09:44

are gonna start this monthly check-in

1:09:46

practice that hopefully gives you some

1:09:49

momentum and some accountability and even

1:09:51

potentially a little bit of creative

1:09:53

community all of 2024. That's

1:09:56

it. Thanks everybody for those

1:09:58

who have already. supported

1:10:00

the show of the years, you

1:10:02

are making this possible. Stay

1:10:05

back, Joe.