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2:02

That's my full name.

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All one word teachable.com/J.

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Klaus J-A-Y-C-L-O-U-S-E. Do

2:10

not just spit back one number when the brand

2:12

says how much for a YouTube integration. If you

2:14

have a rate card or a rate

2:17

sheet in your media kit, delete that immediately. Take

2:19

that page down. That's

2:21

Justin Moore, a sponsorship coach who

2:23

is helping thousands of YouTubers just

2:25

like you find and negotiate their

2:27

dream brand deals. In the last

2:29

few years, his students have landed

2:32

over $5 million in sponsorships and

2:34

that number is increasing fast. So

2:36

what's his secret? My sponsorship

2:38

wheel is my proven eight-step

2:40

system to land consistent, well-paying

2:42

sponsorships. It's in essence a

2:45

sales pipeline. Today, you'll learn the right

2:47

way to pitch yourself to brands. Most

2:49

creators convince themselves that cold pitching doesn't work

2:51

because of this. No, it actually does work,

2:53

but you just have to how to negotiate

2:55

without leaving money on the table. This is

2:57

one of the easiest ways to kind of

2:59

up-fill yourself and make, you know, 5, 10x

3:01

more on a deal. How

3:04

to handle contracts. If you

3:06

are checking for these things once you receive

3:08

the contract, that's actually too late. Read your

3:10

contracts and that you're probably wrong about something.

3:13

Publish seems straightforward. Tell me if I'm wrong.

3:15

You're 100% wrong. Okay.

3:17

A lot of people don't do it right. Can

3:24

you walk me through your

3:26

sponsorship wheel from

3:28

an overview standpoint? And then we'll dive in

3:30

and talk about each piece and how people

3:32

can use it to land their dream sponsorships.

3:35

All right. So my sponsorship wheel is

3:37

my proven eight-step system to land consistent,

3:39

well-paying sponsorships. It's in essence a sales

3:41

pipeline. This is a pretty foreign concept,

3:44

I think, to a lot of creators.

3:46

But I've been my prior

3:48

life, I guess, was kind of in

3:50

the professional corporate world. I also ran

3:52

an agency for many years and had

3:55

to develop this muscle, essentially, which was

3:57

how do you take a client from

3:59

point A... pitching them

4:01

essentially to all the way through

4:03

closing the deal. And so I

4:05

mirrored that process across

4:07

to what actually creators should be doing when

4:09

it comes to working and

4:11

closing deals with sponsors and brands. And so

4:14

the first phase is the pitch phase, right?

4:16

And so this is your ability to send

4:18

a pitch to a brand to propose a

4:20

collaboration or to confidently

4:22

handle a deal when a brand is reached out to you.

4:24

So a lot of people think that a pitch is like,

4:26

oh, you reaching out and pitching a brand, but no, you

4:28

actually still have to pitch a brand when they

4:31

come inbound to you because the deal is not across the

4:33

finish line yet. They're probably talking with

4:35

10, 15, 20, 50 other creators, and

4:37

so you start to convince them that you're the best person for the job.

4:40

Step number two is the negotiate phase. And

4:42

so this is your ability to negotiate advantageous

4:45

deal points with a brand or an agency

4:47

so that you don't leave money on the

4:49

table, right? The third phase is the contract

4:51

step, okay? And this is your ability to

4:54

create or review contracts or delegate it to

4:56

pros. Or like a lawyer, for example. So

5:00

every negotiation deal point is accurately represented.

5:02

Step number four is the concept phase.

5:06

And this is your ability to review creative briefs

5:08

and submit concepts to the brand or the agency,

5:10

even if they haven't asked you to. So

5:13

everyone is on the same page, and we'll

5:15

get into that further. The fifth step is

5:17

produce. And so this is your ability to

5:19

create content that meets or exceeds brands' expectations

5:22

of timeliness, quality, and

5:24

or performance. Step

5:26

six is the feedback round. And

5:29

this is your ability to remain

5:31

objective when brands or agencies request

5:34

revisions or edits or reshoots so

5:36

that the relationship is actually reinforced

5:38

and not soured, which

5:40

is a little harder than it seems, okay? So

5:44

step seven is the publish around. And

5:46

This is your ability to publish work accurately

5:49

and on time without micromanagement by the brand

5:51

and follow up with initial data and wins

5:53

so that your contact looks like a hero.

5:55

Remember, I Ran an influencer agency for many

5:57

years, and yeah, it seems like a hero.

6:00

New Separate know, a lot of people do

6:02

not publish things on time and are not

6:04

super responsive. In the final step is the

6:06

analysis step. in. this is your ability to

6:09

analyze the overall success of the partnership, tie

6:11

up all those loose ends, and pits the

6:13

brand on the next. Collaboration is so good.

6:15

If I'm honest, I feel like a lot

6:18

of my processes in the past have been.

6:20

Pets. Produce. Published.

6:25

Contractors. In there oughta times, but

6:27

you know, maybe a half of these

6:29

steps are things that I'm consciously thinking

6:31

about that I'm intentionally designing and going

6:34

through south. Quick note on aggregate data

6:36

they already have. I've had hundreds of

6:38

creators take this ah assessment of I've

6:40

turned my sponsorship we'll into an assessments

6:43

that I called a sponsorship we'll as

6:45

snapshot and I to Freeze after. You

6:47

can take a maybe we'll Lincoln in

6:49

the Descriptions Army and I'm essentially I

6:52

have data across all of these critters

6:54

that have taken this. And without fail

6:56

sept one into our where people read them

6:58

self the lowest and your points the produce

7:00

step the feedback. The published like everyone always

7:03

rate them self a high as because like

7:05

that they're strong suit most creators like we're

7:07

publishing content audio every day you know, all

7:09

day long essentially and so it's It's really

7:11

interesting to see kind of we're because it

7:13

you know you this as a good emailed

7:16

a graphical spider chart kind of representation of

7:18

where your score lands. And yeah it's the

7:20

it's the pitching, it's the gonna go see

7:22

it and it's the analysis stays those the

7:24

weakest from. As people. Let's. Start with

7:27

pets, and let's let's assume that the

7:29

viewer isn't getting many inbound pitches to

7:31

them yet. or as many as a

7:33

like. And they are. Say, you know

7:35

I, I am willing to go out

7:38

and find people to pitch myself to.

7:40

How do you recommend people go about

7:42

doing that? So. There's two parts of

7:44

it. Cares. who you pits to

7:46

who'd you actually send the suit any other part

7:48

is what you say right so let's talk about

7:51

what do you say first because if you're sending

7:53

something that is really uninteresting than your it doesn't

7:55

matter who you send it to you can get

7:57

go sit right so i have a pity methodology

7:59

at that's called the ROPE method.

8:01

That's R-O-P-E. R stands for your

8:03

pitch has to be relevant to a campaign that

8:06

the brand is either currently running or has run

8:08

in the past. O stands for

8:10

organic, meaning that you can tie your

8:12

pitch back to organic work that you've

8:14

already published across any of your platforms.

8:17

P stands for proof, so you can

8:19

show and illustrate to the brand how

8:21

you've helped other brands achieve results. And

8:24

E stands for easy to execute when

8:26

they say, yeah, actually, this sounds interesting. What did you

8:28

have in mind, right? The

8:30

form that most pitches take for when creators

8:32

reach out is like, hi, my name is

8:34

Jay. I have this awesome YouTube channel. I have

8:37

all these subscribers, and I get this many

8:39

views per video. Here's my demographics. They just

8:41

kind of open the trench coat and bear

8:43

it all. Do you like

8:45

it? Yeah, exactly. They're like, please like me. And

8:47

the brand is just kind of like, whoa, actually,

8:50

I don't know you. And I'm not

8:52

cool with you bearing it all. And they just

8:54

either delete your email or they don't respond. And

8:57

this is the dangerous part, actually, is

9:00

that most creators convince themselves that cold

9:02

pitching doesn't work because of this. They

9:04

say, oh, man, whenever I reach out to brands, this is not

9:06

something that's going to work. Brands never

9:09

respond to me. And so it's a

9:11

really dangerous thing, because no, it actually

9:13

does work, but you just have to

9:15

say something to actually get them

9:18

interested and excited and wanting to respond to you. And

9:20

so the big mindset shift and inversion that

9:23

I hope everyone has is that your

9:25

pitch has to be about them. It's not

9:27

about you. And so the reason that the rope

9:29

method is so powerful is that you do a

9:31

little bit of research. You say, OK, what's going

9:34

on in the brand's world? It seems like, let's

9:36

say, we're sitting here

9:38

in January, where

9:40

we want to work with brands the new

9:42

year, et cetera. A lot of people think,

9:44

oh, let me reach out about a new year,

9:46

new you campaign. Maybe I'm a fitness creator

9:48

or I'm a habit YouTuber and I talk

9:50

about building habits. Perfect time, new year. I'm going

9:53

to reach out to this brand. Would love to

9:55

talk about your brand. And they say, sorry.

9:57

No, we're not actually doing any paid

9:59

partnerships. Right now on the cruise like

10:01

what the heck? the makes no sense will.

10:03

Probably it's because that brand has already allocated

10:05

all their budget for quarter one are ready

10:08

which is January, February, March and so in

10:10

reality probably what you need do is go

10:12

back and seats will actually what campaigns where

10:14

they running into two sear right? So we

10:16

maybe scroll back on their Instagram. we go

10:18

back and look at their blog, maybe press

10:20

releases. see with their marketing you know the

10:23

Vp of market a more influence of money

10:25

managers talking about on linked in may be

10:27

right and you go back to the oh

10:29

it seems. Like they were running some this

10:31

this spring campaign or something. I'm gonna go

10:33

piss them and say hey, I saw that

10:35

you were running this. Campaign. Last

10:37

March or last meal April? whatever it

10:39

is. Are you going to be brain

10:41

that campaign again this year? Then you

10:43

link opposed to illustrate the your audience

10:45

has affinity for this. That's the oh

10:47

in the wrote method. Where to case

10:49

I you know also talk. Every spring

10:51

I talk about a a similar topic

10:54

about the importance of getting ready for

10:56

the summer getting those sizzled abs rated

10:58

cetera et cetera right arm and then

11:00

B. C and the rope method

11:02

it is you say. I'm happy to share some

11:04

insight of how have helped into this other fitness

11:06

brand achieve results and the easy to ask you

11:08

part this is this is critical stay which is

11:10

that here is exactly what I'm proposing to do

11:12

for you. I'm gonna do to integrated You Tube

11:14

videos are many give you you know the usage

11:17

rights to take that content, cut it down into

11:19

a thirty second ad and run paid advertising with

11:21

it's I'll give you the right through their you

11:23

know through your cue to so end of the

11:25

you know June or whatever it is Are you

11:27

free on Thursday at ten Am to talk? That's

11:29

the rope It it's not. Oh. You know all

11:31

these like big ambiguous promises are or I

11:34

you know I your things you see in

11:36

the email that the brands to start really

11:38

excited about self. You see how how much

11:40

different that is than just like yeah I'd

11:42

love to collaborate with you do you wouldn't

11:44

want to chat the fifth you know yeah

11:47

is so tasty for two reasons. One.

11:49

Being. You're. Talking about getting a

11:51

quarter ahead of this? Because.

11:53

As you've noted, Brands. Is

11:56

operate differently than individuals. They often

11:58

are. Allocated. budgets

12:00

that were given to them by their boss,

12:02

the company, and these are on a rolling

12:04

basis. And the other thing that I really

12:07

want to underscore, the easiest way to get

12:09

a yes is to do all

12:11

of the heavy lifting for

12:13

somebody and say, all you need

12:15

to say is yes or no. And in

12:18

the previous paradigm, where you're just kind of

12:20

like showing people, you know, your media

12:22

kit and all these properties, you're

12:24

still putting all of the burden

12:26

of imagination for the campaign on

12:29

that individual. It's work. You're

12:31

handing them work when you're asking them for

12:33

a partnership and for

12:35

money, ultimately. So this

12:37

rope method is really saying, here's all the

12:39

hard work. All you have to do

12:41

is say yes. And I am aware

12:44

of your timelines. I don't expect you to say yes tomorrow

12:46

because I see that sometimes with pitches too, where you make

12:48

a great pitch and say, can we do this next

12:51

week, next month? And by

12:54

other constraints, the answer is just no, by default.

12:57

Yeah. And I'm really glad you brought this

12:59

up about the additional work stuff because it

13:01

segs really nicely into the second aspect of

13:03

how do you get on their radar? It's

13:05

like pitching the right person. Let's

13:07

say that you're trying to target a

13:09

smaller brand. When you

13:11

go on LinkedIn, let's say, and look at

13:13

the marketing hierarchy of that company, there's probably

13:15

only one person. It's probably the director of

13:17

marketing. They have 10 people working there or

13:19

15 people working there. That person is probably

13:21

the person that you want to pitch because

13:23

they don't really have anyone else. And so

13:26

they're doing all the things. They're wearing all

13:28

the hats. And so the rope pitching method

13:30

is even more critical in scenarios like that

13:32

because again, they're doing everything. They're doing the

13:34

pay per click ads on Google. They're running

13:36

their Facebook ads. They're doing everything because they

13:38

have to. And

13:41

so it changes, however, though, as the

13:43

organization scale changes. And

13:46

so let's say you're going after a

13:48

medium sized company. Now you start to

13:50

have dedicated roles and titles

13:53

called things like influencer marketing

13:55

manager or partnerships manager, depending if

13:57

it's a B to C like a business to consumer

14:00

or B2B, business to business. Maybe it's the

14:02

digital marketing manager. Maybe it's the content marketing

14:04

manager. There's all these kind of different titles

14:06

that you need to start familiarizing

14:08

yourself with. But then when you

14:11

go after some serious scaling, now

14:13

you're going after the large, multinational

14:15

conglomerate type companies, the important

14:17

thing to understand is they have now delegated partnership

14:20

strategy, paid partnership strategy, likely to an

14:22

agency. A media agency, a PR agency,

14:24

maybe even a dedicated influencer marketing agency.

14:26

And the real complicated thing to realize

14:29

is that the largest brands often have

14:31

multiple agencies now. And so this is

14:33

one of the things that I learned

14:36

having ran, when I ran the influencer

14:38

marketing agency was that there's just these,

14:40

all these kind of myriad paths that

14:42

you need to kind of understand

14:45

and start to navigate when you start

14:47

working with brands. And so the complexity

14:50

definitely changes based on how many employees

14:52

work there. After a quick

14:54

break, Justin tells us how to get brand

14:56

deals even if you don't have a large

14:58

audience. So stick around, we'll be right back.

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visit uscreen.link.com/j. That's

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now, back to my conversation with Justin Moore. If

17:22

I'm just getting started, let's say that I

17:24

haven't done many or any brand

17:27

partnerships or integrations, would

17:29

you recommend that I start with a

17:31

larger conglomerate and try to find that right

17:33

person? Or should I start on the lower

17:35

end where they have fewer employees? Maybe they

17:37

do just have this director of marketing position.

17:40

This is a great opportunity to talk

17:42

about something that I call the sponsorship

17:44

continuum. What you pitch and

17:46

who you pitch changes based on where

17:48

you're at in your creator journey. So

17:51

a lot of creators start out and they're like, I'm

17:53

going to go pitch Nike. I'm going to go pitch

17:55

Coca-Cola. These are my dream Apple. These are my dream

17:57

sponsorships. And so first of all, got to do a

17:59

sanity. check here, the chances of

18:01

them, you know, working with a

18:04

smaller kind of nano micro, you

18:06

know, creator, usually low, not

18:08

impossible. Sometimes they do kind of scale campaigns

18:11

like that. But it may be more realistic

18:13

to set your sights on the smaller to

18:15

medium size companies in the beginning. But what

18:17

I like to talk about when it comes

18:19

to the continuum is you think about these

18:21

kind of three moments in time. So when

18:23

you're starting out and you don't have much

18:26

experience, or you don't have a super large

18:28

audience, and you don't have a lot of

18:30

influence, if you were to reach out and pitch a

18:32

brand, say, Hey, let me talk about you on my

18:34

YouTube channel, that's likely not going to move the needle

18:36

for them. Right? And so they're probably

18:38

not going to respond to that. However, if the

18:40

thrust of your pitch is Hey, brand, I did

18:42

an audit of your social presence, right?

18:45

I looked across all your social channels, I looked

18:47

at your blog, I looked, I saw that you didn't,

18:49

you know, have these kind of content pillars in place,

18:51

I would love to help create some content for you

18:54

that you can utilize on

18:56

your what's called Oh, no, your own

18:58

denoperated, you know, upsights, or maybe third

19:00

party e commerce platforms like Amazon, or

19:03

maybe use it for paid advertising or

19:05

something. Heck, maybe I can do some

19:07

consulting for you. And in this scenario,

19:09

your YouTube channel or your platforms are

19:12

your portfolio. And so

19:14

it's just a lot of people don't think

19:16

that this is a sponsorship, but it absolutely

19:18

is. Because you're leaning on your credibility, having

19:20

grown the channel to help the brand and

19:22

kind of some other interesting ways. And so

19:25

that's the first part of the continuum, then

19:27

you move a little bit, you grow, right?

19:29

Maybe you're getting 1000s of views per video

19:31

now, right? And so now maybe when you

19:33

reach out, it's a combination, it's a combo

19:36

of consulting, maybe you're going to create some

19:38

content for the brand use and yeah, maybe

19:40

now posting natively on your platforms maybe becomes

19:42

part of the deal becomes meaningful to them.

19:45

Now, let's move to the third pillar of the continuum,

19:47

which is okay, you've achieved some scale now, you're getting

19:49

10s of 1000s of views, or

19:51

listens or opens, whatever your platform is. And

19:54

now maybe it is incredibly meaningful

19:56

for you to create and post

19:58

natively exclusively natively on your platforms and you're

20:00

not doing anything for the brand on

20:02

their platforms. And so I really like this continuum to

20:05

help kind of navigate

20:07

where am I at in the journey, what types of

20:09

brands should I pitch, and what's the highest probability of

20:11

me actually closing this deal. You're kind of debunking this

20:14

myth that I hear from creators a lot, which is

20:16

I think there's this threshold

20:19

of my audience being big

20:21

enough to do these sponsorship deals.

20:23

And maybe there are thresholds in the minds of

20:26

some employees at some companies, but a lot

20:28

of creators limit themselves because they think I

20:30

need to have 10,000 subscribers or

20:33

10,000 followers. But it sounds

20:35

like you're suggesting audience size doesn't

20:37

matter. You just change what it is

20:39

that you're pitching in terms of the

20:41

deliverables of the partnership.

20:44

I'll be totally real, like there are absolutely

20:46

brands who care about the vanity metrics. Like

20:49

some of y'all watching this or listening may

20:51

have experienced this where a brand reaches out,

20:53

oh, you need this many minimum views on

20:55

average for us to work with you, or

20:58

a certain number of minimum followers or

21:00

subscribers or whatever. So it happens. There

21:02

are definitely ignorant brands, in my opinion,

21:04

ignorant brands who don't understand that. Subscribership,

21:06

a lot of those vanity metrics are

21:08

irrelevant. Like what really matters is the

21:10

influence, right? Like are you able to

21:12

drive the results for what

21:14

the brand is trying to accomplish? And

21:17

so I'll be, yes, I ran an

21:19

agency. I've dealt with those clients. It's

21:21

frustrating. It happens. But what I hope

21:23

you hear is that there exist brands

21:25

out there who are savvier, are smarter,

21:28

but also you may actually need

21:30

to educate them, right? A lot of

21:32

what I talk about is like, actually it's your

21:34

job as a creator to educate them about what's

21:36

more important when it comes to doing an activation

21:38

and doing a collaboration with a creator. And a

21:40

lot of people, I don't wanna do that. It

21:42

takes too much work and okay, it's fine, but

21:44

I can't tell you how many creators I've worked

21:46

with and coached and all this stuff where it's

21:49

like they put in the work. Oftentimes it's in

21:51

a traditional industry, more of a kind of a

21:53

traditional industry where brands aren't used to compensating creators

21:55

in that way. And so yeah, sometimes it can

21:57

be a slog, six, 12, 18 months where

21:59

they're having. and lots of Zoom calls and lots of

22:01

emails, and it seems like you're running up against

22:03

a brick wall, and then you finally break through.

22:05

I can share a quick anecdote and story of

22:08

a creator that I worked with who is in

22:10

the scuba industry. His name's Thomas,

22:12

his channel, YouTube channel, is called Circle

22:14

H Scuba. And when we first had

22:17

our initial coaching session, he was running up against

22:19

this wall, brands, they're used to

22:21

giving free gear, free product, right? They just

22:23

are not willing to compensate or pay anyone.

22:25

And so he just started on this

22:28

path, educating, going to these industry trade

22:30

conventions, talking with brands, kind of helping

22:32

them understand the value of working with

22:34

brands. And now he's finally broken through,

22:36

and he has these, you know, he

22:38

got his first very lucrative paid brand

22:41

partnership. Recently, he mentioned it covered

22:44

his, the way he put it was

22:46

it covered his mortgage payment. It was more than a mortgage

22:48

payment, less than the MSRP of a

22:50

Tesla, those are his words. And so

22:52

these really exciting things are happening to him because

22:54

he put in the work. Okay,

22:56

so let me recap a little bit. It

22:58

sounds like you recommend using LinkedIn to find

23:00

like the company page, probably look at who

23:02

are the employees in this company, try to

23:05

find the specific titles of marketing or partner

23:07

manager, influencer manager, send them

23:09

a pitch written in the rope method.

23:12

At the end of that, the E part of

23:14

that, easy to implement, you

23:16

have a specific idea

23:18

for what the deliverables could be. What

23:20

happens next? What happens when the brand

23:22

responds? How does the conversation continue? And

23:24

what should I be trying to do

23:26

as the creator? Well, now it's

23:29

time to negotiate, right? You know, a

23:31

lot of creators think that, that

23:33

they're just so lucky to

23:35

have gotten the brand interested. And so any

23:38

number that the brand throws out, well, this

23:40

is how much we can pay you. They

23:42

just say, okay, they just, they trip over

23:44

themselves to say yes. And they don't wanna

23:46

counter, you know, negotiate or

23:48

counter offer anything else, whether it's the deliverables

23:51

or the pricing or whatever it is, because

23:53

they're afraid that the brand is gonna walk

23:55

away. And I get that, I understand. Partially,

23:57

I understand. I get it because

23:59

it's almost like. validation. The first

24:01

couple paid partnerships that you do when a brand

24:04

gives you the time of day and is offering

24:06

to actually pay you money, it almost is kind

24:08

of a you're able you feel as though you

24:10

can kind of give the middle finger finger to

24:12

all these people in Your life who doubted you

24:14

it's like see yeah, you all didn't believe on

24:17

believe in me like look at this This is

24:19

a brand willing to pay me for this, you

24:21

know content that I'm creating on the internet That's

24:23

a transformative moment. And so I understand that like

24:25

it's a it's a hard thing for me to

24:28

tell people like hey Like calm down now. Don't

24:30

just accept the first deal And so, you know, I'll never

24:32

fault anyone for taking that, you know, that first number that

24:34

they throw out but once you Get

24:37

a few deals under your belt and start to realize, you

24:39

know What actually I think I left a lot of money

24:41

on the table or I think I actually You know came

24:43

out with the short end of the thick here, you know

24:46

$50 plus a free bag of potato chips actually

24:48

maybe isn't the best deal, you know this type of

24:51

thing, right? And so I think the first thing is

24:53

acknowledging that you actually have a

24:55

lot that you're bringing to the table as

24:57

a creator I kind of like to think

24:59

of you know creators as production companies in

25:01

a box, right? You are the creative team

25:03

you ideate all of the ideas, right? You're

25:05

the production team you do it all You're

25:07

often the editing team, right? You are

25:09

often the marketing team and you have

25:12

an organic distribution channel if the brand

25:14

didn't hire you They would

25:16

have to go out there and hire a

25:18

production company actors and actresses to star in

25:20

this content they'd have to hire an editing

25:22

team to cut the content and When

25:25

they have that finalized piece of content, they

25:27

now have to pay YouTube

25:29

and Instagram and Facebook to

25:32

run that at you

25:34

can do all that Yourself right

25:36

and so the next time that you are

25:39

Feeling gun-shy to send

25:41

back a counter, you know offer to them

25:43

a different number Just remember that

25:46

you have the power. I love

25:48

laying out all the different Cost

25:50

drivers that a brand would have

25:52

if their alternative was doing it

25:54

in-house Versus working with somebody

25:56

like you who can create the the

25:59

asset and who? potentially has an

26:01

audience distribution for that asset. That's

26:03

so good to help people realize

26:05

the value that they're offering. Yep.

26:07

When I send this pitch, even

26:09

if I do have the idea

26:12

for the deliverable, the E part of the rope method, I

26:15

assume a lot of times timing

26:17

is wrong, or maybe that specific package

26:19

isn't right. And the brand responds like,

26:21

ah, this isn't quite right. But let's

26:23

talk on the phone. How do I

26:26

handle that conversation and come out

26:28

with a new idea

26:31

for what to offer to start

26:34

the negotiation? The first thing I'll say is,

26:37

it's almost certain that

26:39

the brand is going to say, we don't

26:42

want to do that exact thing you're pitching. Because

26:45

the point of the

26:47

pitch is not to get them to

26:49

say yes, right away. The likelihood of

26:51

them actually green lighting it, okay, yeah,

26:53

here's the money, do that exact thing

26:55

you pitched me. No, it's giving them

26:57

something tangible that they can react

27:00

to. It also makes you look professional.

27:02

It shows like I am somebody to

27:04

be taken seriously. 100% it

27:06

makes you look professional. And again, going back to the whole

27:08

idea of like, don't make them do any work. Now

27:11

they don't have to think, oh, like, how could

27:13

I create this greater? They don't know. They don't

27:15

know who you are. It's you actually pitching what

27:17

you believe is your strengths. And them saying, well,

27:19

you know what, that's interesting. I like your initiative

27:21

here. But that's not our focus right now. Let's

27:23

talk about this other perhaps initiative that we're working

27:25

on next quarter. And so, you know, this is

27:27

a really important insight, which is that the point

27:29

of the pitch is not to get the deal.

27:32

The point of a pitch is to get on

27:34

their radar, so that the next

27:36

time they have an opportunity that slides across their

27:38

desk, they're going to think that creator that reached

27:40

out to me is a perfect fit. And

27:43

it's not just about reaching out that first time,

27:45

it's about nurturing that relationship for a long time.

27:47

So if they, you know, just expect that they're

27:49

gonna when you pitch them, they're gonna say, hey,

27:52

we don't have any budgets for any, you know,

27:54

paid partnership. Let me pull back the curtain J.

27:56

Okay, I ran an agency for many years. And

27:58

this is how it happens. Let's

28:00

say you reach out and you pitch

28:02

a brand cold on random May 4th,

28:04

whatever, right? What you didn't realize was

28:06

that the brand just wrapped recruitment

28:09

for their summer campaign on May

28:11

1st. You're three days late, but

28:13

there's no way that you could have known that. And

28:15

so what happens? The creator looks at themselves, it's the

28:17

long dark night of the soul. They look at themselves

28:19

in the mirror and they think, I

28:21

suck. Play a violin right here, by the way.

28:23

I suck. The brand hates me.

28:25

My pitch sucked. No one's ever going to want

28:28

to work with me. And this is what happens.

28:30

You turn inward, right? And I get it. I

28:32

totally understand that, especially in the absence of them

28:34

telling you that, right? Because a lot of brands

28:36

vote, right? And you absolutely cannot give up here

28:38

because what happens? On,

28:41

you know, middle of May now or late May,

28:43

the brand is going to have an executive

28:46

team meeting where the CEO is going

28:48

to ask the marketing team, hey,

28:50

how much money did we allocate for the summer

28:52

campaign to TikTok or to YouTube or something like

28:55

that? And the marketing team is going to

28:57

look at themselves and be like, oh, crap, we don't have a

28:59

YouTube strategy or we don't have a TikTok strategy, whatever. And

29:01

realize that in order to appease their executive team,

29:04

they have to get their act together and figure

29:06

out what to do. But again, the summer campaign

29:08

is already fully baked. They already recruited the people.

29:10

They can't do anything about it. Right. And so

29:12

campaign starts happening. OK, great. Now, you

29:15

know, here's what you do. You parachute

29:17

into their inbox on random June 4th,

29:20

whatever. And you said, hey, saw this article

29:23

on Adweek or DigiDay about how

29:25

other brands are in your industry

29:27

are killing it with long

29:29

form YouTube content or short form content, whatever.

29:32

Thought your team might enjoy this. Right. And

29:34

so again, oh, they remember who you are.

29:36

Right. You provide value. They call an internal

29:38

meeting to talk about this article that you

29:40

sent. Oh, interesting. OK, again, providing value. Now

29:42

they fast forward to end of July or,

29:44

you know, middle of August.

29:47

OK, now we're going to have an all

29:49

hands meeting about the results of the

29:51

summer campaign. Interesting. OK, now

29:53

the they're going to talk about,

29:56

OK, here's how it went. And here's why

29:58

we need to allocate an. additional 100K

30:01

or 500K to long form

30:03

video content or short form content for

30:05

the fall campaign. And again, here

30:07

you come back in their inbox with some

30:09

other value in the article or an offer

30:12

to chat with their team, whatever. And so

30:14

now fast forward, here we are, end of

30:16

back to school time, whatever. Finally, the CFO

30:18

green lights that incremental budget for that fall

30:20

or maybe even a holiday or winter campaign.

30:23

And so the, and so, but surprise surprise,

30:25

who do you think they're gonna reach out

30:27

to about that campaign? You think it's gonna

30:29

be that creator that gave up way back

30:31

at the beginning when the brand

30:34

said, oh, sorry, we're not recruiting anymore. No, they're gonna reach

30:36

out to you because you were at

30:38

the forefront of their mind for four months

30:40

providing value. Talk to me about

30:42

these parachute emails that you're sending during this

30:44

period of time. Because a lot of times

30:46

the timing's bad, brand says, hey, sorry, timing

30:49

isn't good. We take that as rejection. We

30:51

think that partnership is never going to happen.

30:54

Sounds like you take that as a first

30:56

step. As you said, the goal of the pitch is

30:58

to get on their radar. So how

31:00

do I continue the relationship in

31:03

a way that warrants a

31:05

response from them but isn't you just saying

31:08

like, hey, do you have money now? Do

31:10

you have money now? Do you have budget

31:12

now? Like what is that conversation like? There's

31:15

this great visual, it's this minor

31:18

underground. He has a pickaxe, okay, there's

31:20

two minors. At the very end of

31:22

the graphic is riches,

31:24

right? We've got diamonds, we've got

31:27

cash, we've got treasure, right? The

31:29

minor on the bottom is faced the

31:32

other direction. There was a sliver of

31:34

ground in between him and the

31:36

goal. And he

31:38

gave up at the very last minute and

31:41

is kind of dejectedly walking back towards the

31:43

beginning. And it's the minor on the top

31:45

who is just continuing to chisel away, realizing

31:48

that on the other end of a

31:50

bunch of hard work, guaranteed

31:53

is going to be riches, guaranteed is

31:55

going to be that treasure.

31:58

If you look at it on a... per

32:00

brand basis, yes, of course. There are gonna

32:02

be some deals that don't pan out and some brands

32:04

who just, you know, kind of put their hand up

32:06

and aren't going to. But if you look at it,

32:09

the strategy as a whole, and look at it

32:11

as long as I keep persevering, as long as

32:13

I keep providing value. And there's various different things

32:15

that you can say in these email. You know,

32:18

we talked about the articles that can help, you

32:20

know, something I've done a ton is like, lunch

32:22

and learns. Hey, let's get on a Zoom call.

32:24

You can call, you know, everyone from your agency

32:27

or everyone on your brand, and we can talk

32:29

about what I'm seeing on the ground as a

32:31

YouTuber, or what I'm seeing on the ground as a

32:33

TikToker. They'll eat that stuff up. Like,

32:35

they don't get it, number one, they don't get

32:37

a chance to talk with creators in that way,

32:39

because a lot of creators don't wanna give them

32:41

the time of day to get on a phone

32:44

call like that, right? And so if you're the

32:46

person out there at the forefront, educating them, you

32:48

know, helping them understand how to cut through, not

32:50

only with their partnership strategy, but with their own

32:52

content strategy. Because remember, brands are posting stuff on

32:54

the internet, too. It's not just collaborating, collaborations with

32:56

you, right? And so if there is like nuggets

32:58

that they can learn from you, that's really valuable.

33:00

And so my whole thing is like, it's this concept

33:02

of pivoting. If they say no to you, you don't

33:04

accept no for an answer. You say, okay, you didn't

33:07

want that, fine, let me pitch you something else, or

33:09

let me propose this other thing to

33:11

you over here. Oh, how about a seasonal, you know,

33:13

idea? You didn't wanna do a holiday thing? How about

33:15

New Year, New You? Oh, you don't wanna do New

33:17

Year, New You? How about Spring? You know what I'm

33:19

saying? It's like you can never give up unless they

33:21

say, don't ever contact us again, of course, you'll contact

33:23

them. But like, most brands are not gonna do that.

33:26

A story here from a client

33:29

of mine, a coaching client, her name is

33:31

Emma, she runs a cruising YouTube channel. And

33:33

she shared in our private community recently

33:36

that she finally, it was like

33:38

we have a share your wind section of her community,

33:40

and she said, it took four emails

33:44

of pitching this one particular brand without

33:47

hearing back from them until

33:49

she finally got a response. And they said, oh, I'm so

33:51

sorry, you know, it's just been crazy on our end. Yeah,

33:53

let's work together. Now they're moving forward on a deal. So

33:56

could you have the tenacity? Everyone

33:59

listening here? Could you have the tenacity to

34:01

email a brand four times without hearing back

34:04

from them? Like could that be a goal

34:06

that you set for yourself and realize that,

34:08

you know, it's not no, it's just not

34:10

yet. Yeah, I think about this sometimes. I

34:12

mean, this is true in different professions too,

34:15

like if you're pitching an investor. These

34:17

people, part of their job is allocating funds.

34:20

You're not imposing by giving them an opportunity

34:22

that is part of what they're doing in

34:24

their day-to-day job anyway. So I love this

34:26

tip of being tenacious. One

34:28

response that I've gotten in the past is, hey, it's not

34:30

a good fit right now, but can you send your rates

34:32

for a typical video? And

34:36

I hate

34:38

doing that. I hate reducing what I

34:40

can do to a typical rate card

34:43

that I send to brand

34:45

X and brand Y who

34:47

might be three times the size of brand X.

34:49

So how do you handle that response of, hey,

34:51

can you send your rate card? 100%

34:54

acknowledge this happens sometimes, and your

34:56

response should be, essentially, every

34:59

deal I do is bespoke. I do

35:01

not have standard rates, because what I propose

35:03

to you, brand X, is

35:05

going to be customized based on your objectives. And

35:08

this is a great opportunity to talk about how

35:10

important it is if you have a rate card

35:12

or a rate sheet in your media kit, or you have

35:15

numbers or a place that you send people on your website,

35:17

oh yeah, just go book a spot on

35:19

my YouTube channel or newsletter or

35:21

whatever. Delete that immediately. Take that

35:24

page down. If you're trying to

35:26

price yourself in a vacuum, Jay,

35:28

where all the only thing that

35:30

you're using to calculate your worth

35:32

is your own metrics, you

35:35

are completely leaving out the other 50%, which

35:38

is the brand's objectives. And so a

35:40

brand will have one of three, 100%

35:42

of the time, they will have one of

35:44

three objectives. I call it my ARC framework, A-R-C.

35:47

A is awareness. So it's

35:49

a new product launch, or they're launching in a

35:52

new territory. We're in the UK, now they're launching

35:54

in the US. So they want to top

35:56

a funnel. They're trying to get as many eyeballs on

35:58

this thing. R is

36:01

repurposing. So the primary reason that the

36:03

brand wants to collaborate with you is

36:05

to take your content that you create

36:08

and repost it on

36:10

their social platforms, embed it on their

36:12

website, maybe run paid advertising with it.

36:14

And the final is the

36:16

C is conversions. And so this is where

36:18

the brand, yeah, they want to drive sales.

36:21

They want to, you know, generate app downloads.

36:23

They want to get trial signups for their

36:25

software program. The reason that it's so critical

36:27

that you understand what success looks like to

36:29

this brand is that your pricing has to

36:32

change. A lot of creators think

36:34

that the only thing brands care about is conversion because some

36:36

will say that, oh, yes, sales, that's what we care about.

36:39

But again, going back to this education piece, a lot

36:41

of brands don't really understand the difference between these three

36:43

things. Let me give you a quick example of why

36:45

this is so critical that you ask them about their

36:47

objectives is that let's say that you say, hey, what

36:50

would success look like to you? What is a win

36:52

for you? If we were to partner, they say, oh,

36:54

well, you know, we just

36:56

love the way in which you create video content. It's

36:58

super compelling. And the main reason that we want to

37:00

work with you is we want to, you know, run,

37:03

you know, take

37:05

a 30 second cut down of the YouTube video that you

37:07

post and run ads with it. In your mind, you should

37:09

be like, they just told me that they don't really care.

37:11

This is going live on my YouTube channel. What they really

37:13

want to do is run ads with it. So

37:16

instead of saying, here's my rate for one

37:18

integrated or one dedicated YouTube video, you say,

37:21

Hey, you know what, knowing that that's your

37:23

goal, I can actually create five 30

37:26

second videos that you can run

37:28

as ads. And I'll

37:30

vary up the hook. I'll vary maybe the key

37:32

messages. I'll have different calls to action at the

37:35

end. You can just throw the throw that in

37:37

the meta, you know, Facebook, Instagram, black box, see

37:39

which one does better. Since that's what you said,

37:41

how about we do that and said, I won't even post it on

37:43

my YouTube channel. Yeah, it's gonna be five

37:46

X, you know, the investment. And you know what

37:48

the beautiful thing about that scenario, Jay, is that

37:50

now the amount that you can

37:52

charge is completely detached from your

37:54

subscribership or your viewership. Totally

37:56

love that. And a lot of times, especially

37:59

with YouTube. tubers I find they get

38:01

really uncomfortable about making like a

38:04

dedicated video for the sponsor and

38:06

they don't realize that maybe what

38:08

the sponsor wants is just content

38:11

of a user somebody who loves the product talking about

38:13

it they can put on their own channel. There doesn't

38:15

need to be a dedicated video to your subscribers. It

38:17

could be this repurposing objective.

38:21

When does when does this conversation happen? How

38:23

does this conversation happen to figure out the

38:25

brand's objectives? I mean this should be the

38:27

very first question you ask them whether it's

38:29

in an inbound email inquiry

38:32

or preferably getting on a phone call with

38:34

the brand. I know a lot of creators are like I don't

38:36

know if I want to get on a phone call with the

38:38

brand that terrifies me. If I

38:40

told you that establishing that initial

38:42

rapport could be the difference maker

38:44

to differentiate you from

38:47

the 50 other creators that they're speaking with

38:49

would you do it? Because this is what happens

38:51

is that remember I ran an agency for many years and

38:53

the creators who were willing to just kind of get on

38:56

a phone call with us kind of maybe it was a

38:59

campaign where the brand wanted some creative ideas from

39:01

some of the potential partners before kind of green

39:03

lighting the whole thing. If you were the creator

39:05

who was willing to jump on a 10-15 minute

39:07

phone call with us even if

39:09

you ultimately quoted us our agency

39:12

to 3x what

39:14

these other creators you know were charging we might

39:16

just go with you because it seems like the

39:18

campaign is going to go better right because we

39:21

could put a face to a name we it

39:23

seems like you're serious you're professional as we talked

39:25

about you know and so don't discount the value

39:27

of just sucking it up you

39:29

know just figuring out you know

39:31

dig deep and find that confidence to kind of get

39:34

on a phone call and you just ask them literally

39:36

what would what would success look like what would it

39:38

would look like and the other reason why it's so

39:40

critical is that if the

39:42

brand can't tell you that's a red flag

39:45

because you're setting yourself up for failure if

39:47

they can't tell you like You

39:49

know? Here's here's what success would look like. This

39:51

many sales or just this many impressions or views

39:53

or just more brand awareness or whatever. They can't

39:55

tell you that then there's no way that you're

39:58

going to win Because if anyone has. Up

40:00

and had this happen where you know Brand reaches

40:02

out. they say how much for youtube video you quote

40:04

them a number, you you do the deal you

40:06

post, sit and then the brain cause that can He

40:08

said he didn't generate sales or it didn't generate this

40:11

and you're like it or your hands up and

40:13

you're like well you didn't tell me that was like

40:15

you know the goal, It's it's that was your

40:17

goal. I would have recommended you do this thing over

40:19

here because that would have moved the needle. You know

40:21

more meaningfully and self. Again you have to. The

40:23

onus is on you to be asking these questions. As

40:25

a creator. Something. Is probably worth reminding

40:28

people as. Brands.

40:30

Run. On people. Like. You're having

40:33

conversations with real people who have jobs

40:35

who wants to enjoy. Their. Day

40:37

to day before six. If you are

40:39

a pleasant person to work west, that's

40:41

gonna carry some weight in their mind

40:44

when ultimately they're just doing their job.

40:46

So I you're saying getting on the

40:48

phone, Ah, have these conversations adding

40:50

value. There's like this fourth unstated, go

40:52

beyond awareness. We purpose conversions which is I

40:55

just wanna like enjoy what I'm doing

40:57

that he could be somebody that's like their

40:59

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41:01

you some pricing leverage as well. Hundred

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43:25

Justin more. If I as the

43:27

brain with the goals are and they don't know. Do.

43:30

I. I mean obviously I try to help them a

43:32

wry about and a conversation, but if they generally don't

43:34

know and I like ask their boss. Do

43:37

I forgo the campaign? Because.

43:40

I don't see a way to win hundred percent.

43:42

Don't do the deal. You can't do the deal

43:44

They don't know it's you're You're setting yourself up

43:46

for failure. Hopefully you're able to have these conversations

43:48

and trying to ascertain or maybe help them through

43:50

here. This this happens lot where you may be

43:52

talking with the brand was never done. On.

43:55

Influence a marketing campaign. Or maybe they just

43:57

they've only dabbled in it and self again

43:59

like. Don't know, don't know the different

44:01

this you ask him what successes may say.

44:03

Awareness and conversions. Yeah, I call A again

44:06

here. It's like we're talking about the very

44:08

top of final and the very bottom of

44:10

funnel. Here, that's not. Yeah, I can't accomplish

44:12

that in a single Youtube integrations crises. Now

44:15

is the time to educate them. Okay, it's

44:17

Will. that's the case. We should probably do

44:19

multiple videos, some will be focus on that

44:21

top of fun albeit A again. The.

44:24

Way in which you tactically

44:26

execute. That. Integration

44:28

would Saints Day because an awareness

44:30

campaign is maybe you say maybe

44:33

it's up a video podcasts are

44:35

doing on you to be sex

44:37

This video. This podcast is powered

44:39

by or supported by brand acts.

44:42

And there's no other mention of it. Or

44:45

maybe throughout the entire episode. You may not even

44:47

linked them in the show. Notes: Because.

44:49

Of with that's an old, we're in his

44:52

goal. Maybe there's like us a little in

44:54

a badge on your podcast cover art that

44:56

says powered by Brands that is an awareness

44:58

play a conversion Players put the linked in

45:00

the description bucks and pseudo use Creator Wizard

45:03

Twenty for twenty percent off your first purchase.

45:05

That is a to bottom of by a

45:07

direct response. Conversion play a Dead

45:09

when which is practically execute. It is going to

45:11

change based on their goal and so used to

45:13

educate yourself as a creator. But the difference. You

45:16

so good at this and this is on that

45:18

we talked about on on your part ass. We

45:20

help me with my sponsorship strategy would his helmet

45:22

law because we were some the same partners and

45:24

I know well one I can see the are

45:26

going about the partnership much different than I am

45:28

and I know that you're probably. Have

45:31

three more value and probably creating more value.

45:33

Certainly greedy, more value than than I am

45:35

at times and is because you do this

45:37

step of learning about the goals: creating a

45:39

bespoke package. So that's what I want hard

45:41

about. next is how do I create these

45:43

bespoke packages of deliverables? Once I've talked to

45:46

the brand of told me the priority, they

45:48

told me their goals. With. the next

45:50

step for me to get this thing moving

45:52

forward let's start with the basics which is

45:54

okay moving from here on out everyone watching

45:56

or listening do not just spit back one

45:58

number when the brands is how much for

46:00

a YouTube integration. Don't do that anymore, okay?

46:02

Because you're leaving a lot of money on

46:04

the table, okay? And so from here forward,

46:06

we're always going to offer multiple packages, even

46:08

if the brand is not asking for them,

46:10

okay? You're not limited by what the brand

46:12

is asking for, okay? Just give yourself that

46:14

permission, okay? It's very liberating for a lot

46:16

of people to think, oh wow, I could

46:18

actually, even though they're asking for one YouTube

46:20

video, yeah, you could pitch them five YouTube videos. You could do that,

46:23

it's okay, right? And the reason that

46:25

you do that, by the way, Jay, let's go back

46:27

to first principles here, is because again, they're probably talking

46:29

with lots of different creators, not just you.

46:31

And so if you help them understand, oh,

46:34

actually we could just do one contract with

46:36

this one creator, they could do five times

46:38

the amount of work, it's less email threads,

46:40

less back and forth, sure. You have now

46:42

just basically stolen or borrowed budget from all

46:45

those other, you know, other creators

46:47

that they were gonna potentially work with. And so this

46:49

is one of the easiest ways to kind of upsell

46:51

yourself and make, you know, five, 10X more on a

46:54

deal. But it's not just about quantity

46:56

of work. Because a lot of people

46:58

think, okay, packages, sure. Let me do

47:00

five packages and I'll just like linearly

47:02

increase the amount of deliverables. One video,

47:04

two video, three videos. Yeah, it's fine.

47:06

And maybe the only incentive for the

47:09

brands to

47:11

pick that higher tier is like a

47:13

price concession, like a discount or something,

47:15

right? A lot of brands are just

47:17

not gonna pick that, right? And so

47:20

instead, the real eye-opening change

47:22

is you have to tie the brand's

47:25

goals to what you propose

47:27

in each tier. So there's

47:29

different tactics to help them meet their goals. And

47:31

so you talk with them on that

47:33

phone call or in the email thread or whatever, and they

47:35

give you a couple different goals. Oftentimes they will. They say,

47:37

okay, driving more leads to, you know, XYZ, or

47:39

yeah, maybe sales is one of the goals. Or maybe,

47:41

you know, getting some great content is another goal. And

47:43

they're gonna tell you a couple of different things probably.

47:45

And so you say, okay, great. For goal

47:48

one, which is getting great content, that's

47:50

gonna be package one. That's where I

47:52

create some assets for you that I

47:54

don't even post. You can repurpose those

47:56

in various different ways. XYZ, that's price.

48:00

Who is now going to be completely different?

48:03

Than. Package once because it's gonna be tied to

48:05

go to would go to his let's say conversion

48:07

focus. Okay, that's where I'm in a do the

48:09

newsletter blast or that's when a minute post on

48:11

my community tab on you tube and you know

48:13

me to give people a promo code or whatever

48:16

replaces we're trying to drive is as a direct

48:18

response time, advertising approach, rights and then Package three.

48:20

Yeah, maybe that one is going to be the

48:22

awareness play and that's where you're going to beat

48:24

the a twelve month exclusive sponsor of the podcast

48:26

with the youtube channel or every video I do

48:29

or whatever. And so. What? Do you

48:31

think is the big learning lesson here? J is

48:33

that the only way for the brand to accomplish

48:35

all their goals is to pick the top packets

48:37

which includes everything. Ah, so

48:39

good. It's like. Sex.

48:41

Sponsorship Jews jujitsu say if they're gonna if they're

48:44

going to ask for multiple goal the psych all

48:46

right But yeah I say I'm I'm in. I'm

48:48

in my my embarrassing myself because I actually don't

48:50

have the differences in karate and jujitsu. I just

48:52

because kind a good done this everything. Okay,

48:56

let's let's fast for little bit. I am

48:58

woefully under performing all of the areas of

49:01

trying to the sponsorship we'll buy one. Had

49:03

a couple more high points. We've got the

49:05

packages brand says our package to or I

49:07

want the top level. The talk about the

49:09

contract. An Ice and into contract

49:11

says the brands and contract who takes the

49:14

lead? their i would say rule of thumb

49:16

the larger a brand gets. Almost in all

49:18

circumstances, they are going to have a boilerplate

49:21

contract template that has been blessed by their

49:23

legal teams that they're going to want to

49:25

send you. The. Smaller a brand or

49:27

his field. they may not house a contract

49:29

you know for you to san so spill

49:31

either say oh it's okay, was a sees

49:33

this email thread is proof or this Dm

49:35

exchanges proof. Definitely not okay for they're gonna

49:37

say can you send the contract and a

49:39

lot of good of what to are the

49:41

clam up because they don't have one or

49:43

they don't know what to do Rice and

49:45

a gangland back this whole professionalism things. One

49:47

of my biggest piece of advice is to

49:49

go out and hire a lawyer. for

49:52

a couple hours ask them to

49:54

create a boilerplate contract template for

49:56

you were the only thing that

49:59

you'd seen on a deal-by-deal basis

50:01

is the appendix, which is essentially the

50:03

very last page. It

50:06

includes everything about the deal dynamics, right? You've

50:08

got the SOW, which is the statement of

50:10

work, kind of the deliverables. You've

50:12

got the usage rights. You've got the exclusivity. And

50:14

all of the other terms

50:17

in the beginning of

50:20

the document are kind of all the stuff to protect

50:22

you, right? The limitation of liability to make sure that

50:24

there's no perpetual rights that the brand is receiving to

50:27

your content, etc., etc. So a lot of people say,

50:29

like, oh, well, you know, I don't have the money

50:31

to go out and hire a lawyer to do that.

50:33

And so here's where I sit you down. I'm going

50:35

to be your tough love sponsorship coach

50:37

here, your mentor, and say, look, if you're

50:39

starting any other business, there

50:42

is a cost required for you to start that

50:44

business. Let's say you're creating an ice cream shop.

50:46

OK, what do you have to do? You have

50:48

to hire labor. You have to hire equipment. You

50:50

have to get insurance. You have to probably pay

50:52

for that brick and mortar location with a rent

50:54

or a lease or whatever, right? That

50:56

is a cost to actually run that business. So as a

50:58

creator, what are your costs? Camera equipment,

51:00

software, computer equipment, whatever. And if you're

51:03

doing partnerships with brands, probably hiring a

51:05

lawyer to create a contract template for

51:07

you is a worthwhile investment. Don't

51:10

just be and don't just say, oh, I'm not going to do

51:12

this until I have a deal in hand that

51:14

will pay for it for the for that. And because a lot

51:16

of people, oh, well, my deal is five hundred bucks thousand bucks.

51:18

If I do, if I hire a lawyer, I'm going to eat

51:20

up all my profit. It's like, no, this

51:22

has to come first. OK, if you're serious about this as

51:24

a creator, this is something you should do. And

51:27

maybe it will eat up all your profit on

51:29

this deal and then you have it for the

51:31

future. Exactly. On

51:33

this deal, you mentioned a couple of key points there. If

51:35

I'm creating my own contract, I think you said deliverables. You've

51:38

got a couple more things. If I'm

51:40

adding those to my contract, first of all,

51:43

can you repeat those those important aspects? I

51:45

think it's three of them. Yeah, there's the I call

51:47

it the due rule, which is the you

51:50

the deliverables, the usage rights and the exclusivity.

51:53

Those are kind of the main buckets that you need

51:55

to consider when when you're kind of scoping a deal.

51:57

And what does what does that look like? We haven't talked about.

51:59

We've talked about deliverables. We haven't talked about usage

52:02

rights or exclusivity. How does that play into these

52:04

deals? Because maybe it is part of the negotiation

52:06

up front, but it sounds like it's definitely a

52:08

part of the contract phase here. We

52:10

talked about, sometimes the brand, the

52:14

chief thing that they care about is using

52:16

this content in other ways. I

52:18

have a quick story here. Early

52:20

back in the day when my wife and I

52:22

first started our YouTube channel, when she started in

52:24

2009, she was

52:27

tickled to get any free stuff. When

52:31

a brand offered to pay her, that was like,

52:33

whoa, this is crazy. That was kind of the

52:35

early days for us. There was this deal that

52:37

we did where we had worked with this brand,

52:39

a clothing brand, several times, but they weren't compensating

52:42

my wife, April. They were paying her in

52:44

site credit, or kind of clothing credit. It

52:46

was kind of a major fashion retailer. Again,

52:48

I think she was getting, at that time, maybe

52:50

like $1,000 worth of credit, which was awesome

52:52

to her, $2,000, this type of thing. What we didn't

52:55

realize, though, is that the agreement that they

52:57

sent to us, clarifying

52:59

that we were gonna get the $1,000, $2,000 worth

53:02

of clothing credit, we signed away

53:04

the rights, the usage rights, for

53:06

broadcast TV. One

53:09

day, we turned on the TV, we were

53:11

just watching TV, and there goes April's

53:14

face. Her YouTube videos, they just

53:16

took a cut of that YouTube video and put

53:18

it into a broadcast TV commercial, and that thing

53:21

ran for years. And

53:23

the compensation that we got from that was

53:25

$2,000 worth of clothing credit. And

53:28

again, a lot of what I'm talking about today,

53:30

and a lot of what I've learned over the

53:32

years, having been a creator myself for many years,

53:34

but also running the agency, is this type

53:37

of thing. It's the hard-earned mistakes that we

53:39

made along the way, which I'm trying to help

53:41

people realize. And so this is

53:43

why usage rights is so important. It's not just

53:45

letting the brands embed it on their website, or

53:47

put it on their Instagram, or something. It could

53:49

be something as significant as broadcast TV, or out

53:51

of home, like a billboard or a bus bench,

53:53

or a print magazine, or something like that. And

53:55

so there's two different types of usage rights. You've

53:57

got the organic usage rights, which is allowing the...

54:00

to just natively repost the content

54:02

on their site, their social, et

54:04

cetera, or paid usage rights, where

54:06

not only are they gonna post

54:08

it there, but they're going to

54:11

put additional dollars to amplify it

54:13

to a lot of people,

54:15

not just your audience. And so that second

54:17

bucket, which is the paid usage rights, they

54:20

absolutely should be paying you for that privilege

54:22

because they're using your name and likeness to

54:25

essentially rub off on their

54:27

brand. It's essentially a very, very loud

54:30

testimonial for them. And

54:32

the exclusivity is also very critical because

54:34

the brand is oftentimes telling you, it's

54:36

sometimes called competitive protection, where they're saying,

54:39

hey, you cannot work with our competitors

54:42

in a certain category for a certain

54:44

time period. So they may say, you

54:46

can't work with, let's

54:48

say it's a consumer electron, actually I have a story here, a

54:51

creator that I worked with early on coaching, she

54:53

did a deal with a mattress company, these

54:56

like Casper and you know, Lull

54:59

and a lot of these large mattress brands. And so

55:01

the deal was for a free mattress. She

55:03

wasn't compensated, okay? And

55:05

the deal that she signed was

55:09

exclusivity for five years

55:11

for a free mattress. And

55:16

so let's say one of these other larger mattress

55:18

brands came to her in four and a half

55:21

years and was gonna pay

55:23

her, had a big bag with a money sign on

55:25

it. And say, hey,

55:27

let's collaborate. Oh, sorry, can't do it. So,

55:32

read your contracts, moral of the story. Yeah. So

55:35

when you create your own contract, if you're sending it, you

55:37

can write your own terms here.

55:40

But if you're getting the boilerplate contract, which

55:42

is usually longer, it's more intense, it's usually

55:44

more restrictive, I would guess. It sounds like

55:46

you are looking specifically at

55:48

things related to usage rights,

55:50

exclusivity, and you're saying, am I

55:52

being paid for that? If not, let's

55:55

remove it. If you wanna keep it, pay

55:57

me more for it. It sounds like... the

56:00

conversation that you're having when you get these

56:02

contracts? So we actually have

56:04

to take a step back here, which is

56:06

that if you are checking for these things

56:09

once you've received the contract, that's actually too

56:11

late. You need to be ascertaining these deal

56:13

dynamics at the very beginning

56:16

of your negotiation with the brand. Because the

56:18

moment that you have a written contract in your

56:20

hand, your contact has told all

56:22

of their superiors and the legal team

56:25

that you are good to go. And

56:27

so if you're catching something at the contract stage

56:29

and coming back and be like, you need to

56:31

pay me more money, that

56:33

contact now has egg on their face. They have

56:35

to go back to their boss or to their

56:38

client if it's an agency or the legal team

56:40

and be like, hey, I know I told you

56:42

that Jay was locked in, but now he's demanding

56:44

more money. And it introduces all this friction and

56:46

it kind of sours the relationship because it makes

56:49

you seem greedy to some degree. And

56:51

so it's your job, the onus is on you to actually

56:54

catch this stuff earlier. And when you're ascertaining

56:56

this early on in the conversation, sometimes

56:58

when we think about contracts, it starts

57:00

to feel like a combative,

57:03

negative conversation. Like a

57:06

battle, a why win you lose. But

57:08

I would guess there's a lot

57:10

that you can convey in your

57:12

tone and inflection when you're talking. You're not

57:14

like, hey, no exclusivity, right?

57:16

It's more like, let's talk about exclusivity.

57:19

Yeah. Like

57:22

making it more of a conversation where you're like

57:24

agreeing on something and not like fighting.

57:27

Exactly. It's like, again, going back to, it's just a

57:29

bunch of questions. It's a series of questions. You

57:31

know, what are you looking to?

57:33

What platforms are you looking to activate? Because a lot

57:35

of brands will come inbound and we'd love to collaborate.

57:37

They don't have a scope of work. They're just that

57:39

we would love to collaborate. Like let's talk about that,

57:41

right? And so your job is to come back with

57:44

a list of questions, whether it's on the phone call

57:46

or over email, you say, ask about the deliverables. You

57:48

ask, are you looking to use this for paid media?

57:50

Are you looking for exclusivity? It's these questions that you

57:52

ask every time to scope the deal and a lot

57:54

of creators be like, well, that sounds like it's gonna

57:56

scare some of the brands off. And well, my response

57:58

to that is good. It

58:00

should scare some brands off because you don't

58:02

want to be wasting your time with brands

58:04

who don't understand the importance of these types

58:06

of aspects. I want to fast forward through

58:08

the concept and produce phases

58:11

a little bit because I'm going to

58:13

trust the viewers to do

58:16

a decent job of that and you'll

58:18

get better over time. The step of

58:20

feedback before publish in your sponsorship wheel,

58:24

I can see creators getting frustrated there with like,

58:26

Hey, I made this thing. I put a ton

58:28

of time into it. But you think brand brand

58:30

might come back and say, can you change these

58:32

things? Not realizing how much effort it would go

58:35

into to change in those things. So how do

58:37

you recommend people handle this feedback period before the

58:39

integration goes live? So I

58:41

know you want to gloss over those other steps and

58:43

we can find we can do that. But what

58:46

I will say is that it's

58:48

actually these steps, concept

58:50

production feedback that ultimately determines

58:52

whether or not a brand

58:54

will collaborate with you again.

58:57

Okay, say more. Because

58:59

having run the agency, I can speak

59:01

to this firsthand that it wasn't those

59:03

first couple phases, the pitching and negotiation,

59:05

etc. Like that, we

59:07

just have to do that with every partner, but you never

59:09

really know how a relationship is

59:11

going to go down until you get into the

59:13

meat of the execution of this partnership. And

59:16

that's where you find out whether the creator is responsive,

59:18

if they're communicative, if they're professional, because there's going to

59:20

be multiple back, you know, if I look at some

59:22

of the threads, the email threads that I have with

59:24

a lot of that, you know, my wife and I

59:26

have done over 500 sponsorships, if

59:28

I look at some of these email threads,

59:30

they're maybe 100 emails deep for a long

59:32

term partner, right? And so there's a lot

59:34

of back and forth. There's logistics, there's things

59:36

that come up that you weren't anticipating. This

59:39

happens constantly where, you know, they'll send us

59:41

the finalized creative brief, which is kind of

59:43

the document outlining everything they want us to

59:45

talk about. And then, you know, maybe we

59:47

either, you know, have begun production, or we

59:49

finish it in their hand, and they come

59:51

back and they're like, we're so sorry, the

59:53

client has introduced a new requirement that we

59:55

didn't understand or expect. How can

59:57

we like, tweak the content like a

59:59

column. for this new request. And so

1:00:01

if your default response is like, hmm,

1:00:03

no, you're ruining the creative purity or

1:00:05

integrity of my craft, screw you, I'm

1:00:07

never working with you again, like

1:00:10

what do you think is gonna happen? You think that brand or

1:00:12

agency is gonna ever work with you again? No, whereas in a

1:00:15

lot of instances, when we were in the agency and

1:00:17

we were asking for kind of these small changes, it

1:00:19

literally would have required like a quick 30 second

1:00:22

voiceover. Just like, but on principle, a lot of

1:00:24

these creators were like, no, they have their arms

1:00:26

crossed, right? And so my default here is like,

1:00:28

let's just figure out how we can make this

1:00:31

work. And yes, there may be, there's

1:00:33

obviously like, this is a, like, you know,

1:00:35

shades of gray here, there are gonna be

1:00:37

certain requests that will, yeah, maybe

1:00:39

warrant some incremental compensation if they're

1:00:42

asking for full reshoots or, you know,

1:00:44

things that are beyond, you

1:00:46

know, what would be considered reasonable.

1:00:48

But for most times, just do it. Like the

1:00:51

brand is gonna love you. They're gonna remember the

1:00:53

fact that you have their back in

1:00:55

a pinch, right? I could talk a lot of

1:00:57

stories about this type of thing, but yeah, the

1:01:00

creators that we worked with over and over on

1:01:02

the production phase and in the feedback phase when

1:01:04

we're introducing comments that may be a little challenging,

1:01:06

et cetera, et cetera, it's the creators that really

1:01:09

understood that this is a business transaction that

1:01:12

we ended up working with consistently.

1:01:15

Something I love about your work, the way

1:01:17

that you work with people, the way you teach people, is

1:01:19

you're always prioritizing the

1:01:21

long-term relationship and renewals. You go

1:01:24

into every partnership thinking, I

1:01:26

wanna set this up to get a renewal with

1:01:28

this brand, which I don't think is the default

1:01:30

for a lot of creatives, not because they don't

1:01:32

want it, but because they're just not thinking that far

1:01:34

ahead. And what you're saying here is, similar to what

1:01:36

we said earlier, people like to work with people. People

1:01:39

like to work with people they like to work with.

1:01:41

And the easier you are to work with

1:01:44

in these pinches, that actually becomes an opportunity

1:01:46

for you to stand out and deepen your

1:01:48

relationship with these brands. I have

1:01:51

this belief that, you know, we

1:01:53

were talking earlier about packages, package strategy, and making different

1:01:56

things. A lot of people thought, oh, how can I

1:01:58

upsell and make the most amount of money? possible

1:02:00

on this particular deal. And

1:02:03

my approach is do not upsell

1:02:05

the deal, upsell the relationship.

1:02:08

Okay, because your goal is,

1:02:10

you know, I'm gonna get,

1:02:12

I'm gonna nerd out a little bit

1:02:14

here, is to reduce churn and increase

1:02:17

LTV. These are terminologies that

1:02:19

come from kind of the software world or

1:02:21

the sales world where churn is you're trying

1:02:23

to reduce the number of people who stop

1:02:25

working with you. In software it's like the

1:02:27

amount of people who cancel every month on

1:02:29

the software, right? And LTV is lifetime value.

1:02:32

So your goal is to make the most

1:02:34

amount of money possible throughout a long time

1:02:36

period. And so the way in which you

1:02:38

do that is to prioritize

1:02:40

the execution of the deal, prioritize the

1:02:42

entire relationship and not try to take every last

1:02:45

dollar off the table when you collaborate with the

1:02:47

brand. The reason that sponsorships feel unpredictable to you

1:02:49

is because you're not approaching it this way. You're

1:02:51

thinking it's gonna be this one-off kind of transactional

1:02:53

thing. You do a deal with the brand, you'd

1:02:56

literally never talk to them again, and now you're

1:02:58

back there out on the street hustling for a

1:03:00

sale change. Oh new brand? Okay, okay here. What

1:03:03

brand one works with me now this month, right?

1:03:05

And so a lot of people, yeah, sponsorships are

1:03:07

great but you can never really rely on that

1:03:09

income which is a hundred percent false if you

1:03:11

design a sponsorship wheel. Alright,

1:03:13

I'm gonna move past publish. Publish

1:03:15

seems straightforward. Tell me if I'm

1:03:17

wrong. You're a hundred you're

1:03:19

a hundred percent wrong. Okay,

1:03:23

what happens? What's the complication with publishing

1:03:25

besides hitting publish? Well,

1:03:28

a lot of people don't do it

1:03:30

right. They don't publish on time. They

1:03:32

don't publish the correct version of the asset,

1:03:34

especially if there were multiple versions and back

1:03:36

and forth. They don't publish the clickable

1:03:39

link in the YouTube description box. You can't

1:03:41

actually click it. They don't put it above

1:03:43

the fold, above show more so that you

1:03:45

can see it without having to expand it.

1:03:48

They don't put the right messaging, the right coupon code.

1:03:50

They don't test to see that the coupon code is

1:03:53

actually working. That's your job as a creator. There's

1:03:55

all these different things that you need to be Verifying before

1:03:57

this actually goes live because what happens in

1:03:59

that. Mary Else If the link doesn't work or

1:04:01

the coupon code doesn't works, your audience is good because

1:04:04

they're going to and it's going to affect the performance

1:04:06

of the campaign's not as many people are going to

1:04:08

buy it or sign up for things like that. Right

1:04:10

into there's a lot of details that you have to

1:04:12

verify it's before you actually publish something as he can

1:04:15

smell it in. The. Irony here is my

1:04:17

most recent partnership. I screwed this up. I

1:04:20

published i Promise to Call to action. That

1:04:22

said, Get city

1:04:24

perceive city percent using this

1:04:26

code. And. The brand had

1:04:28

changed the copy to save save fifty dollars

1:04:30

and I miss that change of character from

1:04:32

fifty dollars to fifty percent. So my audience

1:04:35

good the link with a he actually this

1:04:37

is thirty three percent. And

1:04:39

I didn't tests. I didn't test

1:04:41

that code. In. So what'd I

1:04:43

have to do? I had to email a brand

1:04:45

with egg on my face and say I screwed

1:04:47

this up. What? Can we do

1:04:50

here? They were very gracious in changing

1:04:52

it so was fifty percent what I

1:04:54

had problem out in the email. But.

1:04:56

Here I am saying damn This is

1:04:59

a great sponsor. I think this campaign

1:05:01

could have gone well as Zotto. Really

1:05:03

bad start so you're right, I did

1:05:05

I I undervalued the published stops and

1:05:08

shows through in in the work. but

1:05:10

at this the story of a happy

1:05:12

ending which follows through and step eight

1:05:14

analyze what you've taught me and I

1:05:17

wasn't doing before. Either. So if

1:05:19

I do this. Talking. About analyze

1:05:21

what is what does that stuff. Real.

1:05:23

Quickly I want to comment

1:05:25

on the overconfidence. That. You

1:05:27

just displayed around publishing and production all the

1:05:29

sets. When people take the sponsorship we'll snapshot.

1:05:31

They almost always rate themselves very highly on

1:05:34

these three steps and then when they ultimately

1:05:36

go through my programmer what's while my content

1:05:38

built they will then picked as Citizens Esmin

1:05:40

again this and re and rate them self

1:05:42

actually lower because sometimes you just don't know

1:05:44

what you don't know. You think you really

1:05:46

good at something until you realize what actually

1:05:48

goes into it. To Chris to really execute

1:05:50

a successful partnerships and so thought like that,

1:05:53

that's not an uncommon thing to think. Oh

1:05:55

actually it's the easiest upright and when reality

1:05:57

thought sex. In the

1:05:59

analysis. We

1:06:01

talked about how virtually no creators do this.

1:06:03

And when I talk about analysis, what most

1:06:05

creators think of is I'm just gonna send

1:06:07

screenshots to the brand. They ask me for

1:06:09

screenshots of my YouTube analytics or screenshots of

1:06:12

my Instagram or whatever it is, right? Whatever

1:06:14

platform it is. And the

1:06:16

brand seems to be okay with that. Like

1:06:18

that's all they're asking for, right? But again,

1:06:20

we're not here to just do the bare

1:06:22

minimum, right Jay? We're here to exceed and

1:06:24

do excellent work and become the most professional

1:06:26

partners. And sometimes the brand doesn't ask. Sometimes

1:06:28

the brand doesn't even ask. Right,

1:06:31

right. And so I have in the

1:06:33

past just done no follow up after a

1:06:35

campaign has run. You know the reason

1:06:37

that I think most people are

1:06:40

very scared of the analysis step Jay

1:06:42

is because they're afraid that the campaign

1:06:44

didn't go well. They're

1:06:46

afraid that they didn't drive the number of

1:06:48

sales that the brand was expecting or didn't

1:06:50

get the amount of views. Like every, we

1:06:53

all experienced this. Like, man, this YouTube video

1:06:55

with the brand got like half the views

1:06:57

that my normal videos, get

1:06:59

and so the brand must be pissed. When

1:07:01

in reality, the brands over here popping champagne

1:07:03

bottles, they're stoked. But they're not telling you

1:07:06

this, right? Because you didn't ask them, right?

1:07:08

And so from my perspective, there's only two

1:07:10

scenarios in this analysis step. You have

1:07:12

to reach out to the brand and ask them,

1:07:15

how did it go? And it requires a lot

1:07:17

of humility and objectivity here because the brand's gonna

1:07:19

say one of two things. They're either gonna say,

1:07:21

it went awesome. And so now you're gonna pitch

1:07:24

them on the next deal. Oh, great,

1:07:26

great to hear it went well. Here's an idea I

1:07:28

have for the next collaboration, right? Or

1:07:30

you're going to, they're gonna give you

1:07:33

some challenging feedback. They're gonna say, well, it

1:07:36

didn't go so well. Or we didn't get the

1:07:38

number of sales we were hoping or it didn't get

1:07:40

the number of views or whatever. And so now is

1:07:42

your ability, now it's your turn to be introspective and

1:07:44

think, why is that? Why do I think that went

1:07:46

well? Let me go look at the comments. What

1:07:49

were people saying about it? Like, oh yeah, I tried

1:07:51

that brand or that product. It didn't go so well.

1:07:53

So I'm not gonna try it. Or, oh, it's too

1:07:55

expensive. Or, oh, blah, blah, blah. All objections. Think

1:07:57

of yourself as a consumer. You have objections.

1:08:00

when you're scrolling a website, deciding

1:08:02

whether to purchase something, your audience does too.

1:08:04

And so it's your job to analyze, like

1:08:07

how can I overcome these objections for the next thing

1:08:10

that I'm going to pitch this brand. And so you're

1:08:12

either going to win or you're going to learn, as

1:08:15

Nelson Mandela once said. And so if you can have

1:08:17

the humility to approach the brand and say, oh, thank

1:08:19

you so much for that feedback. I

1:08:21

agree. I think it could have done better. And here's how

1:08:23

I think we can improve it on the next iteration of

1:08:26

this content based on the data, both

1:08:28

quantitative and qualitative insights that I've gleaned. And

1:08:30

so let's take a look at what I

1:08:32

call a post campaign report that you deliver

1:08:34

to the brand that is much deeper than

1:08:36

just screenshots of your insights. So

1:08:38

this story, normally, especially in

1:08:41

a situation where I feel like I screwed up, I

1:08:43

would retreat into a corner and not

1:08:45

do anything. I reached out to the

1:08:47

sponsor and said, hey, it's been a couple of

1:08:49

days. How did this go? He

1:08:52

responded, couldn't be happier with the results. 31

1:08:55

new customers, well

1:08:57

over 300% ROI goal. And

1:09:01

I wouldn't have known that if I didn't reach

1:09:03

out. He also followed up and said, I actually

1:09:05

think that the 50% off pitch is much

1:09:07

more compelling than the $50 pitch. So

1:09:10

now the sponsors learned something and it might change

1:09:12

their future approach with other creators as well. So

1:09:16

you taught me this because normally I don't follow up

1:09:18

on it. And it was exactly for the

1:09:20

reason that you shared, which is I'm

1:09:22

not getting goals. I assume the goal

1:09:25

is conversion. And if the conversion didn't

1:09:27

do well, then I feel

1:09:29

embarrassed and I don't want to face my embarrassment.

1:09:31

But it's unlikely that I'm going

1:09:33

to face anger in responding to that sponsor because

1:09:36

a lot of people probably like me. They're probably

1:09:38

not even hearing for most of their creators. You

1:09:40

know, I think the best advice that

1:09:42

I can give around how to steal

1:09:44

yourself to feedback that might be tough

1:09:47

is exactly how most people deal with

1:09:49

trolls and negative comments. OK.

1:09:52

A lot. We've all been doing this a while.

1:09:54

We've all got negative feedback. And I think we've

1:09:56

all kind of developed some sort of mechanism

1:10:00

we respond, whether it's deleting, whether it's blocking,

1:10:02

whether it's engaging, whatever it is, however you

1:10:04

do that, you carve out a

1:10:06

little place of your brain for how to deal with that.

1:10:08

And this is what I would suggest is like, figure out

1:10:10

how to deal with challenging feedback when you work with partners

1:10:13

and approach it the same way. You can't block or delete

1:10:15

them, obviously, but like, how do you approach it? Right? How

1:10:17

do you respond with

1:10:19

objectivity with with maturity, and

1:10:22

understand that there's an opportunity here? Because how

1:10:24

many times have you engaged with

1:10:26

a troll or a negative commenter, you've been

1:10:28

really respectful, and they've apologized, or they've said,

1:10:30

Oh, you know, I now I'm your biggest

1:10:33

fan, because you know, you took the time

1:10:35

to actually like, listen to my feedback, like

1:10:37

that, that you can absolutely win over sponsors

1:10:39

where the relationship was kind of going, going

1:10:41

south. And you actually, you know, were able

1:10:44

to salvage it through your, through

1:10:46

your maturity. Just professionalism, it

1:10:48

makes you fun to work with.

1:10:51

I mean, I would rather work with people that

1:10:53

I've worked with in the past, then start a

1:10:55

relationship from scratch every single time. So the more

1:10:57

that I empathize with the sponsor, the more I

1:10:59

realize, man, following up is a

1:11:01

no brainer all the way around, even if I

1:11:03

feel like the campaign might have underperformed our hopes

1:11:05

for it. And a lot of times, it's not

1:11:08

even true. A lot of times, it performs better. And you just

1:11:10

don't even you don't even know unless you ask. One

1:11:12

thing that we haven't talked about, which is

1:11:14

I think a really important kind of summarization

1:11:16

of this whole conversation, is

1:11:19

that when you are analyzing this, and when

1:11:21

you are kind of sending that you're wrapping

1:11:23

this up and tying it with a bow,

1:11:25

is understanding that a lot of times brands,

1:11:28

like, we'll just get excited about

1:11:30

the ability to partner with you,

1:11:32

given who you are and who

1:11:34

you represent to your community or

1:11:36

to the industry, which is an

1:11:38

unquantifiable thing. The fact

1:11:40

that the brand could say I am partnered with

1:11:42

Jay class, I am partnered with Creator Science, that

1:11:45

is a valuable thing. How do you put a

1:11:47

price on that? And so even if the campaign,

1:11:50

you know, doesn't perform well to their

1:11:52

expectations, they just may keep it rolling

1:11:54

because of being able to,

1:11:56

you know, continue this partnership and

1:11:59

be able to See that vocally on

1:12:01

social media in they're all hims marketing

1:12:03

competing studies you You would be shocked

1:12:05

at the amount of money that some

1:12:07

brands will spend. It's just so it's

1:12:09

kind of virtue signal internally where they

1:12:11

can get up in front of their

1:12:13

marketing team and be like look at

1:12:15

this often partnership we did with this

1:12:17

really big industry leader Like this happens.