iPride’s Ashantè Fray On Building Intersectional Pride

Welcome to Crescendo Chats: Scaling Diversity & Inclusion. In this series, Crescendo co-founder Stefan Kollenberg hosts conversations with HR and diversity & inclusion practitioners, sharing valuable insights from their work. 

This week’s conversation is with Ashantè Fray, Team Lead, Inside Sales & iPride Regional Co-Chair [Americas] at Indeed.

Listen to the podcast or read below for the edited transcript. 

Stefan: Can you share a bit about yourselves to get us started?

Ashantè: Of course. I want to start off with my day job. I currently work at Indeed as a Team Lead. I was promoted back in September 2019 after being promoted to a Senior Client Success Specialist back in February. A lot of my day to day is finding ways to support my manager and my team. I also strategize with sales reps to figure out ways that we’re helping our clients. 

Outside of that, I have my “gay job,” as I call it. I’m the regional co-chair of iPride, a position I was promoted into after being Site Lead in Toronto. I was overseeing all Pride events in Toronto and now I moved up to help oversee that on a global scale. I currently manage a remote team of five people - a lot of what we do is figuring out ways we can manage our iPride chapters. Right now, I believe we have 18. We also figure out ways to help develop strategies for diversity, inclusion, and belonging at Indeed to make sure that we’re always in alignment. 

Stefan: What is your identity and how has that shaped how you show up at work?

Ashantè: When I speak about my identity, I like to take the time to break it down intersectionally, because I wholly believe that we are multifaceted people by nature. I like to start with that I’m a Black female woman and I am bisexual. I’m 25 years old and I’m second-generation Canadian. Our background in Jamaican. I grew up Christian, but I now identify as being spiritual. I’m also a small business owner - I own a business called Synchronized Soul. I also did my masters in English literature, focusing on intersectionality in Toni Morrison’s novels. I’m also a survivor of sexual abuse and I’m living with PTSD.

Those identities on the whole very much shape the way I show up to work. What aspects I’m able to bring to work authentically shapes the way I’m able to interact with my coworkers. I try every day to be as authentic as I can and to show up. If that means I’m crying, at least I’m being honest. 

Stefan: What does your business do?

Ashantè: What I do specifically is Taro and Oracle readings. It’s a different form of divination that I use to connect with guides and with your higher self to bring clarity. It’s focused on self-development. I feel like all forms of religion or self-development are really focusing on growth. I try to be that person to intuitively use my gift to help. 

Stefan: What are parts of your Jamaican heritage that you bring into your life today?

Ashantè: I love my Jamaican culture. We’re very proud people and we have every reason to be. Jamaica is about the small things like taking a walk or bathing in a river - it can be moments of happiness and joy. I feel like North American culture doesn’t really appreciate the small things. We’re so focused on where we’re heading that we don’t really focus on where we’re at. I love going back and being able to just be present in the moment and really find myself again. 

But there are faults with all cultures. And for me, one thing I have a big struggle with is finding a place between how proud I am with my culture but also recognizing how they feel about homophobia. A lot of the songs I grew up with explicitly stated, for instance, that Adam and Steve did not work or stating that girls can’t dance with each other. It was something that was constantly reinforced in that culture. It didn’t really occur to me that it could be ok to be bisexual until I really started my education and really opened my eyes to what is out there. 

It’s tough at times to navigate the differences, especially when seeing old family, friends, and stuff like that. You’re never sure. 

Stefan: What was your coming out journey?

Ashantè: It was really hard. Honestly it didn’t occur to me that I could be bisexual. And it really took a lot of time for that to even be a thought. A lot of that came from the fact that there wasn’t a lot of representation of Black queer females or Black queer individuals - period - that I could identify with. In addition to that I had grown up Jamaican. In that culture, it’s reinforced that the LGBTQ community is a white people thing. It was always: we can’t be gay because we’re not white. 

It wasn’t until university when I was out on my own that I started seeing a therapist and started unpacking my sexual abuse, but also what it was like to be on my own for the first time, but still trying to uphold the expectations that I feel were reinforced by society. 

My therapist convinced me to start experimenting and doing things I’ve never done before. So I got dressed up for Halloween as a kid, but I never got dressed up again because growing up Christian, it was always reinforced as the devil’s work. I didn’t really do it again until I was seeing this therapist and she convinced me. It was something I fell in love with. 

I came out a little later when I was at Indeed. I had such a support system and this incredible therapist who was reinforcing it and saying to do it - go out there and experiment. 

I had done my masters and still didn’t come out. Then our VP of Human Resources at Indeed came to Toronto for a panel and started talking about the importance of being yourself fully. Hearing him say that was a wake up call. I came out at work and called my mom when I was in the office. She said it was ok, and that kind of it. I’m happy to be in a place in my life where I can show up authentically. 

When you’re fully yourself, you start inspiring other people to be themselves, because they recognize what’s possible. 

Stefan: What does having an intersectional pride mean to you?

Ashantè: Intersectionality is really important to me. I honestly believe that it’s probably one of the reasons I was appointed to the position of Regional Co-Chair, because that was something the DIB team also recognized at Indeed. We wanted to start opening up these IRGs that were historically very white representation. 

It was about how we ensure that Black queer women or transgender individuals also have representation and are highlighted. So myself and co-chair Shannon were very intentional about pride because we wanted to make sure that we were not just representing ourselves, but creating space for other people to be represented, seen, and heard. 

In the beginning of 2020, we sent out our mission, vision, and values statements. One of our values was authenticity, but also learning. We wanted to make sure that we were creating those spaces. So when we ran into the COVID situation, intersectionality for us was about amplifying those voices. 

We had a jam-packed pride month, and I am so proud of our team. So many IRG leaders were reaching out asking how they could support. It really does take a village. A lot of people see my face and they credit it to me, but I credit pride month to everybody on the team. 

Stefan: Can you say more about being an active ally - with other IRGs supporting your pride efforts?

Ashantè: Yeah, the important thing to acknowledge here is sometimes people assume that because you are an ally, you can’t make a mistake or can’t have a negative impact on somebody because your intentions were good. But even being a regional lead, I’m not perfect. I will always make mistakes and my intentions will always come from a good place, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that the impact was negative. 

That is what I have to hold myself accountable to as an ally to ensure that I’m continuing to educate and continuing to amplify. If I don’t know, then it’s about creating those spaces and saying I don’t know, which is something I openly do with my team. But then I will find the knowledge or create a space so that experts in that particular space can speak. 

Stefan: What do you love most about pride?

Ashantè: When I started with Indeed in 2018, it was my first pride event. A lot of people think of pride and they think of parades. I’m grateful that I was able to find myself in a community with great people - the whole place was love all the time. I never felt so much joy in my life until pride. 

But the important thing to recognize is that it’s still a march. It’s still a fight for equality and something I wanted to recognize, especially being Canadian, is that a lot of the things people are fighting for in the States we already have, especially healthcare. Until we’re all free and there is no discrimination, none of us is going to be free. So it’s taking the time to recognize we’re still fighting, even if you aren’t currently. 

Something I always heard was “what kind of gay are you?” A sports gay, a video game gay… What do I need to do? Do I qualify? I felt like I didn’t understand all these stereotypes - it’s a spectrum, and it’s fluid, and I’m allowed to sit down and take the time to figure out what that means for me. 

Stefan: What’s a heartwarming story you’ve heard lately from the Black queer community?

Ashantè: The media has been so filled with negative energy. Important information is going out but it’s so heavy and overwhelming. I’ve been feeling numb a lot of the time. Something that woke me up a little bit and made me feel was watching RuPaul’s Drag Race. I was watching this particular season with Jada. I took the time to research her story and found that she auditioned back in season seven. She had to re-audition in season 12 to get the role. At the same time there was a post floating around instagram talking about the fact that prior, she was a makeup artist and was actually doing some of the queens’ makeup for their season finale. 

So it was being in that space and being so close, but not being close enough. But recognizing year after year, she would have been a winner.

With 2020 as this year of disaster, I’ve been taking the time to wake up and recognize what it is that I’m fighting for, what I stand for, and what I value. Until I know those foundations, I don’t think I’ll be able to go anywhere. I feel like 2020 is a really great time of awakening and taking the time to look within - it’s causing a lot of various reactions. 

But one thing that I say, especially being in Canada, is that a lot of the racism that we face here is very subtle. I don’t know who likes me or doesn’t like me because they’re very politically correct. They use correct terms. They say the things they need to say in my face. I don’t know what’s happening behind the scenes. In America, if someone is outrightly racist in your face, I know what you value. Not saying either should take place. Just that I feel like I’m in a place where I don’t know where my enemies are. It’s a very Canadian thing. 

Stefan: What are some authentic actions you’ve seen from brands during pride?

Ashantè: Everything is so performative, especially the examples of brands and logos with rainbows. I can’t really attest or speak to what work they’re doing behind the scenes, which means it’s so hard to figure out where that is a performance or whether they are taking the time to be an advocate. 

Something I’ve been asking people to start being is an accomplice. I’m over allyship and logos and brands. I’m over people stepping up saying that we’re doing things. I want to know about the work that you’re actually doing - with concrete evidence. 

I also want to start hearing people call people out. I’ve been loving LinkedIn for that to call out racist remarks, tag managers, and say this is what your people have been saying. We’re in a day and age where people have to start holding themselves accountable and recognizing that the things they do and say have actual consequences. The internet is literally forever. 

Stefan: What are some things you organized during pride?

Ashantè: I was asked to be part of a Here to Help interview with Chris Hyams, our CEO. I was so excited. The interviewer took time out to talk about my identities and talk about the way we can start being an intersectional ally. 

So we took time this pride month to focus on allyship. We had a 21 day allyship challenge with Pride Circle that was taking place - we were a rewards partner for that. Every day there was a new challenge where people talked about different ways to be an ally. 

We also took the time to do a Gender Cool workshop with the Gender Cool Project. They’re doing great things - they say who we are, not what we are. That was something that resonated with Indeed-ians because we were really focusing on core empathy and compassion and realizing that we’re all human.

We also did Say Her Name for unsung heroines. Taking the time to highlight women throughout history who have not been highlighted for whatever reason. We had guest speakers come in who really took the time to sit down and start talking about their own unsung heroines and what we need to do be allies to Black women and the Black trans community. 

Another thing I organized was a panel on intersectional allyship, moderated by Chris Hyams. He took the time to ask questions and create space that needed to be created for our panelists. 

I think that’s what any month is about and what any organization is about - how do we build engagement and leaders? Because that’s what I’m trying to build at the end of the day. I want to figure out who can take over for me when I need to step down from this position, because I want to make sure there’s a constant flow to the next generation. 

Stefan: How have you pivoted programming to be more remote friendly?

Ashantè: I was quite happy that everything was remote this year. It’s so hard to fly out senior leadership to Canada. It’s so hard to link up schedules to figure out when they could possibly fit in time for an event with various stakeholders - then things like budget. This is my gay job, not my day job. 

Going remote this year was a blessing because I got access to a lot of senior leadership who were already participating and stepping up, but also recognized that we all had to figure out time zones. 

We even did a virtual pride celebration with a call for virtual DJs. There were a few glitches, but nothing crazy. In the end, people actually requested that we start doing monthly virtual dance parties - we actually had people joining from Australia and London because of time zones. 

I was really happy to see children, families, dogs, cats - all on zoom. People were having the time of their lives. It’s so hard to feel that sense of belonging, and I was really happy and very proud we were able to do that even with the pivot to remote.

Stefan: What are the biggest learnings from your time as an IRG leader?

Ashantè: First: We are lifetime learners - there’s always more learning to be done and more educating that needs to be done. Even recognizing that we had a successful pride month, it’s taking the time to recognize how we make it better and continually do better. 

The second learning is that you can’t please the world. You will make mistakes and there will be times when you mess up. But support given in silence is not support. I would rather you make a mistake, talk it out, flush it out, and ensure it doesn’t happen again instead of being silent and not being a support system at all. 

Stefan: Is there a community for IRG leaders to learn from?

Ashantè: One thing I use as a database is Catalyst. That’s a huge I go to. In addition to that, I would say start finding mentors and sponsors. I’m out there. A mentor can be anybody in a position that has experience to give you, whereas a sponsor you’re looking for somebody at the senior leadership level. You can have both as a support system.

Stefan: Lightning round: Favorite quote?

Ashantè: “In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists” - Eric Hoffer.

Stefan: What motivates you in life?

Ashantè: Resilience, or some would say grit or optimism. The ability to pursue goals after setbacks.

Stefan: What’s a book or movie that changed the way you think about the world?

Ashantè: You Are a Badass: How to Stop Doubting Your Greatness and Start Living an Awesome Life by Jen Sincero. 

Stefan: Favorite podcast or music?

Ashantè: Serial. 

Stefan: What’s the coolest tech product you’ve ever come across?

Ashantè: Muse Headband - a meditation headband synchronized with an app to tell you when you’re calm or at peace.

Stefan: How can people connect with you?

Ashantè: People can connect with me on LinkedIn or an email ([email protected])

Stefan: Thank you!