0:00

At the time, the some of his crimes

0:02

became clear in October 2012.

0:05

Jimmy Savile is still revered

0:07

as a British institution. His

0:09

name was in place and throughout hospitals

0:11

across the UK streets, were

0:13

named after him. But during the weeks

0:16

that over year, after

0:18

his death, in 2011 Savile

0:20

was revealed as one of most prolific

0:23

sexual abuse is complete

0:26

flight of Oz.

0:32

For those that don't know

0:34

him, it's hard to articulate exactly

0:37

how famous seven. Was in the UK

0:39

his please. I. Go to Lee and

0:41

outlandish clothes for cultivated

0:44

to make him stake in the collective memory

0:46

of the British people when he was

0:48

to same and the nineteen eighties most

0:50

you take. The census, both stiffly

0:52

and perfect English and as

0:54

an undefined minus, I'm a working class

0:56

area saddle, felt like fresh,

0:59

genuine voice.

1:00

I've known him as result house then you

1:03

give. us a kiss vegas

1:05

He. Became established as the likes of

1:07

Oprah Winfrey, your David Letterman, the

1:10

source of household name Hussein span

1:12

generations private and ammonium

1:14

many parents grew up listening to

1:16

him on radio on. And their children,

1:19

much time on Channel Six, is a hugely

1:21

popular show which ran from nineteen seventy

1:23

size to nineteen ninety four, often

1:25

receiving twenty thousand letters week

1:28

from it's. And ruptured audience. Pamela

1:30

also presented Pacific. That

1:33

I didn't let them the top of the planet. mean,

1:35

it says week as his seat in the Seventies

1:38

was watched by sixteen million people

1:40

a week around quarter of

1:42

this is population at the time. saddle

1:45

novelty (INITIAL Persona) He'd have

1:48

received secrets those his fifty

1:50

three year career, Southall abused

1:52

countless victims aged five

1:55

to seventy size after his death

1:57

over four hundred and sixty people came forward

1:59

without. The nation's now to look things

2:01

away. The

2:04

way I coached his predatory behavior

2:06

was allowed to flourish for as a size decades

2:09

and sample's power and calculating

2:11

influence meant that many accusations

2:13

about his behavior with dismissed as

2:15

ridiculous. That sort of thing did

2:17

happen in the pub business. Travel

2:20

with able to escape justice the so long

2:22

because it's proximity to influential

2:24

people. It's. Difficult to reconcile

2:26

with his clownish, the sona that he

2:29

wielded genuine power, he became

2:31

synonymous with large demonstrative charity

2:33

projects, raising as forty

2:35

million pounds to events to self

2:38

and. Gained widespread media coverage,

2:40

he was awarded an Ob and nineteen,

2:42

seventy two and knighthood in

2:44

nineteen, ninety, one of the highest

2:47

honors the crown can bestow.

2:48

It really is mine who's your is man

2:51

I'm southern an ominous some of it's month of

2:53

that is money thought licks it.

2:55

He was an unofficial advisor to members of

2:57

the royal family, the governor of brought

2:59

more a high security psychiatric

3:01

hospitals and esteemed member

3:03

of the Catholic Church. They

3:05

can only do, and with Margaret Thatcher was at

3:07

its prime minister, I met the Pope on

3:10

his as it. The United Kingdom can be.

3:12

The sun, with some of the most famous

3:14

musicians in the world, governments

3:17

the monarchy and establish British

3:19

institutions such as the BBC

3:21

and NHS whole, trusted

3:24

several.

3:24

Good place would not be and existence without

3:27

for me several.

3:28

Because. The Netherlands Jonah was a lie

3:31

created to overshadow the truth

3:33

about his and was he was

3:35

some celebrities and produces did

3:37

raise concerns about saddle's behavior,

3:40

but nothing as came. As and is they

3:42

were ignored, there was even less chance

3:44

of healing the voices as the vulnerable,

3:47

disenfranchised people upon

3:49

whom several prayed the revelations

3:51

about saddle led directly to. Operation

3:54

You Tree, police investigation

3:56

into sexual abuse allegations which

3:58

led to the conviction of other. The celebrities

4:01

such as Well Harris, Gary glitter

4:04

and safely Travis. You

4:06

can watch the full story in Jimmy

4:08

Savile British Horror Story

4:10

available on Netflix now.

4:12

I am often tempted to as

4:14

much as comes up next Thursday.

4:31

A lovely listeners and more combats a

4:33

crime analyst answer: "This fascinating

4:35

interviews behind the scenes is

4:37

Marion Jones, who along

4:39

with lists McCain lifted the lid

4:42

on TV, suppose horrific and prolific

4:44

ascending behavior. Before

4:46

we dive back in, I want to pay tribute

4:49

to the victims, he spoke out

4:51

a new say to those who have not

4:53

been able to. For one.

4:56

Then we're trigger warning before we dive back

4:58

in. We're going to be talking about.

5:00

Sexual abuse and very prolific

5:02

perpetrator. No discretion

5:05

is advised. There

5:07

were going to take back home where we left off in

5:09

part one. Mario and said

5:11

the story. If went away on,

5:14

I asked him about the number of victims

5:16

he enlists spoke with. Okay,

5:18

so let's rejoin the conversation. How

5:22

many victims did you end

5:24

up talking to you and list? The

5:26

between you to pick. In weight because know

5:28

you, you were looking on friends reunited

5:31

with Southern as it exists. The more, but

5:33

it just saves the power as in

5:35

a social media and so on. They

5:37

you were looking and. The repeat

5:39

your interest, how many did you start

5:42

to talk to first of all and then did not

5:44

grow into or big number between

5:46

the two of you will on, so it's seeing

5:49

on Friends for Universe, which for the speak

5:52

social media platform in Britain.

5:54

It was really nursing school friends,

5:56

all would have a look at Bancroft on there and I

5:58

started saying. It's about

6:00

saddle, maybe about she thousand

6:03

of us. Round about

6:05

that same time. The some

6:07

published the picture. Saddle

6:10

at a children's I'm on jersey. The

6:12

New Jersey which is called out

6:15

to the darren I'm notoriously

6:17

in the center of huge somebody scannable

6:20

Alex. extreme vad said but he's

6:22

not on abuse of the abyss me

6:25

Some of the see had fumble, but they couldn't

6:27

say it. A lot of things

6:29

on something, see? The

6:32

thing some friends reunited suggest

6:34

something would happen at some crossed. But

6:37

it's not until early twentieth eleven,

6:39

the I read an account on the Web

6:41

by woman called Can Ward. She's

6:44

written one of the south and. Then.

6:46

Biographies on a literature site's

6:49

where you get advice from people saying

6:51

you need some damn, he adds, "It saves

6:53

so what did you say all robbed

6:55

and year leases places

6:58

and" I found it because of the kids don't crop to

7:00

Los de subscribe to find on what

7:03

the one three many licenses. In

7:05

that she describes everything know that

7:07

this weird institution, the

7:10

visitor in the Rolls royce to J's

7:12

and immediately tricks, and she tells us

7:14

what then happens and ninety nine

7:16

cents and story knew. So

7:19

see the extra one person what happened

7:21

when the when child McCall it's of

7:23

what happened when they got some she's sense when

7:25

it's of the math on. and

7:28

Only two pulling together. Still

7:31

don't quite get there, and this is months

7:33

before we don't wait. From?

7:36

The friends reunited side, it looks

7:38

like those a police investigation get

7:40

to the police investigation, maybe

7:43

we can sort of story, we just so sorry

7:45

the police investigation movie

7:47

that. Will be enough slow will allow

7:49

us to get the rest source out can't,

7:52

get back to information about fine.

7:54

alonso really am doing lots

7:57

of other investigations of other same answers

7:59

that The money he died in A. The

8:02

news from the some to I know she was

8:04

found a because. Because.

8:06

He targeted somewhere where the victims

8:08

wouldn't dare send up in court, but

8:11

we believe her we should now, so what

8:13

story and letters

8:15

or hammer found maybe another

8:18

half dozen ten. Victims

8:20

half dozen victims for me and few witnesses

8:23

who don't cost we. them

8:25

were told about stoke mandeville have been

8:27

sending their Respected

8:29

how to duran when now thinking

8:32

that everything's teachings and wrong

8:34

way. One of those everywhere

8:36

was so into the peace, and I suppose

8:39

was thinking that might be a hundred victims.

8:41

Distributed across maybe ten institutions

8:44

over, sit ups and have huge underestimate.

8:47

but that's why we were by the time we

8:49

were ready for class over the months

8:51

afterwards and over working on

8:54

sustrans documentaries on savile

8:57

It it up. It's been

8:59

dozens of victims I'm

9:01

talking to dozens of victims. It.

9:04

Wasn't nice late because I'd worked on to the fast

9:06

New Jersey songs you know if

9:08

you didn't develop your skills I'm doing

9:11

this has to be fatal getting

9:13

kids trusted I'm. Behaving in

9:15

trustworthy why but he

9:17

has for coming from me and around must

9:20

and Lotus was only one victim. For

9:22

me. They were all, we're

9:24

in my mind all the exits are to to,

9:27

including. The shoes

9:29

called in Philly. In

9:31

new, sudden moses the victims

9:34

because over there for me.

9:36

And he managed to get one and

9:38

the early days. If someone wins on camera one

9:40

of the victims did go on camera

9:43

and was brave enough and courageous enough

9:45

to do that that's a big leap of faith isn't

9:47

set at Sunday back then sued

9:49

to go on camera and.

9:52

thus when he really Though the story

9:54

was going to run. The and.

9:57

Then, of course. There with a change

9:59

of my. In can you just stick to talk little

10:01

bit about that?

10:03

So on the fourteenth November twenty

10:05

left me when see per mod

10:07

woman I've already mentioned had written this autobiography.

10:10

I deliberately when it's

10:12

with as many as lonely as

10:14

possible. Those my so.

10:17

The man. The

10:19

all search her. Please

10:22

use that means we're told we could all folks

10:24

only want to know what people's reaction

10:26

is you to eat, don't rely on your own reaction.

10:30

We talked to her for my off, and then we didn't will

10:32

look into the. And we came

10:34

out of their which totally convinced.

10:37

Jumping in here as I want you to hear

10:39

lists McCain talking about that and. Then

10:41

we carry more than two thousand and five.

10:44

There's a clip from the tip of Podcast.

10:47

Then you just know when someone's telling

10:49

the truth. Really, I mean and

10:52

how many and.

10:53

These had I done before didn't see current

10:55

mood hundreds in

10:57

all situations and you just have

11:00

a ceiling for you just. Under

11:02

the time we did, and.

11:04

The you her we've spoken to

11:06

so many other people have been at song for

11:08

school that the oh

11:11

what's her name of very similar story

11:13

else can about the same as and but,

11:16

it was meeting her on talking to

11:18

her. not was it's and i

11:20

absolutely knew that she was

11:22

telling the truth telling didn't have any doubt about

11:24

it Let's

11:26

rejoined the interview his marion.

11:29

That she said to me to be the same level of the

11:31

show this or city on the BBC was

11:34

bad in the old days in on several

11:36

was A. You know the

11:38

not point that now. The

11:40

original was. We got to

11:43

the point, the we have confirmation that

11:45

been a police investigation woman. The

11:48

said you will scar on some of the same

11:50

December. The over

11:52

twenty know it's in November. Suddenly

11:55

the brakes with the on, it's the day that

11:57

the Christians should use came out to the baby

11:59

so. "The day that the BBC

12:01

amounts that the whole of Christmas was

12:03

can be reached Jimmy Savile with

12:06

special to look", Fake says. Biographies

12:10

of been on every channel. That

12:13

day we were told stories is

12:15

actually does. We were

12:17

told to me several, been a different

12:20

story. That Jimmy

12:22

Savile Big P the fall of the B C wasn't

12:24

stores with to follow me a P the fall

12:26

of institutions to ban the country

12:29

wasn't stories he would only be

12:31

stories had been a mess up by the police

12:33

or by the Trend Prosecution Service

12:36

it. was madness That is when

12:38

the rules. The list

12:40

for came storming into the other,

12:42

says office mean perhaps doing it

12:45

slightly more quietly but just as owners.

12:48

But fortunately, I believe

12:51

in myself through everything within developed

12:53

his. The year later, sorry for

12:55

me to come out the BBC, not

12:57

any choice in the be sued to pump

12:59

it up for saddle. The of

13:02

it up again was something else. You

13:04

know in a search know now,

13:06

for to cover the fact that would even investigated

13:09

the bbc told wolves the have

13:11

been no investigation couple of calls

13:13

from of work experience person that

13:16

was it completely

13:18

untrue that myself was just said we're

13:20

not gonna go along the that we put it right thing"

13:23

It was any inquiry into this,

13:25

we are going so through the great thing

13:27

was weeks to send back to back

13:30

your muscle absolutely, I phone beeps

13:32

and to ablaze. Hundreds.

13:34

Of line has something to be see

13:36

again the socialist lethal: "I was target

13:39

a good deal with me, problem go

13:41

away for life, focus their farm

13:43

or may not realize. That list was every

13:46

bit as much in Oak Park this is on

13:48

was an inner saved me, I would

13:50

not go through that with outlays

13:52

to in a stand back to. Back with my.

13:56

Oh, that's so for now as I want to tell

13:58

you about my fascinating sponsors. Dory worse.

14:01

You know, having received has really made me reflect

14:03

about my own family history. And really

14:06

want to share stories is roughly about

14:08

his grandpa living. in another

14:10

country means i don't always get to hear

14:12

the anecdotes and when my dad was dad for recently

14:15

he was telling me things never knew The for,

14:17

and it really got me wondering about other stories,

14:20

too. That's why I got my dad. laurie

14:22

worse. Story Worth is an online

14:24

service that helps you in your dad, all father

14:26

figure. That three sharing story, the memories

14:29

and preserve some for years to come every

14:31

week story, was emotional daughter thought provoking

14:34

question of your choice from of off

14:36

pool possible option.

14:38

Each unique prompt ask questions

14:40

you've never thought about like was

14:42

one of your. On the childhood memories,

14:44

or are you still friends with people from school? Would

14:46

an iPhone if they change?

14:48

"Really enjoyed reading my dad sounds", says

14:51

his school year assassinating, and

14:53

he wrote back with an essay. I think

14:55

you really have fun reminiscing. And

14:57

didn't know most of the stories about sports and

15:00

Sirius on six. He goes up to which

15:02

probably shouldn't repeat on here for

15:04

that including

15:12

photos into a beautiful Keepsake

15:14

book. The whole family can shaft Generations.

15:16

Give

15:17

all with fathers in your life and meaningful gift.

15:19

You can bathe cherish for years to come story

15:22

with right now for a limited

15:24

time. If you can save $10 on

15:26

your first purchase, when you go to the story

15:28

with. Calm slash crime analyst

15:30

that's storyworth

15:31

R w o r t

15:34

h storyworth.com /

15:36

crime, analyst to save $10

15:38

on your first, purchase storyworth.com

15:41

crime, analyst.

15:44

You said

15:46

so. many really important things, they're

15:48

the thought that it wasn't just a cover

15:51

up the same in the went out with that there

15:53

was no investigation, unsafe

15:55

for you and lives, I mean, yes, smarts of you to

15:57

take it seem to have Hannah there. Then.

16:00

How that must have felt for you and

16:02

then how you communicate that a what

16:05

you communicate to the Karen's

16:07

unto others he's given your they've

16:09

given you that trust haven't. They can

16:12

you just talk to those two things you personally,

16:15

but also how you communicate that. The

16:17

victims, the actually karen. Right

16:19

but not any that they're. saying

16:21

that there was no investigation and there

16:23

for Or even less worm road go,

16:25

how did that sale?

16:27

No, the only ones, even so, we wrote those

16:29

sign that nothing has happened in a little I

16:32

missing circle. Nothing.

16:34

See here as the message obviously

16:37

some of them stand up because then see these

16:39

exposed came out front,

16:41

page of every paper from top

16:43

of every these bullets and. ",

16:45

didn't take very long", said the

16:47

media to see through the BBC

16:49

Press of Says, "Lights on That

16:52

On that came A Point" when both himself Liz

16:55

just started talking. Pizza notes on true

16:57

feelings when you're having lines from out

16:59

by your own organization you have to say

17:01

this isn't, true dance

17:04

with this Hamilton

17:06

this and he.

17:08

truth about that period the fact ten

17:10

days or the slicing keep

17:12

the investigation alive And

17:15

we were feeding back as sitting back term.

17:18

I'm worried about this that it may not go out

17:20

as having those conversations with A. Then

17:23

when it was finally pulls couldn't kern

17:25

I don't remember this. The

17:28

center attacks. Hey,

17:30

other them. Like, don't think

17:32

that's what sent us is more like a recent

17:34

bullets. Yeah,

17:36

I'll just by that stage, I just swim. What

17:39

can we do, what can we do it? handed

17:42

it over perfect to later see the. That

17:45

nearly and likes of briefly, see the

17:47

exposure which extends won't

17:49

happen, it's own prophecies lists and

17:51

Hannah, a minor search on

17:54

which got finally got story out and says when

17:56

I really wanted. When one

17:58

third to thank you.

18:00

The doing that I'm sure that

18:02

came at great cost and in many respects,

18:04

but perhaps he just knew

18:07

in a deep down and is about whether you can

18:09

live with yourself. Right? And

18:11

when you look in the mirror, can you live with

18:13

yourself and the decisions that eat but I really want

18:15

to thank you for doing that and handing

18:18

it over? To t V because of course, then they

18:20

get the A Space and Malt Williams

18:22

promise is situated as the journalist,

18:25

an inverted commas acts police officer that

18:27

listing the. Lid on their son, that's what the world

18:29

see, and I guess,

18:32

in some ways, and the story is bigger than

18:34

both, even less, for sure, but there must

18:36

be a part. Of view, the would

18:38

have liked to have broken it because you

18:40

had the genesis of it, it went

18:42

back to when you were sixteen with your on

18:44

and the questions that. "Erase I saw not very

18:47

interesting hearing about that, but

18:49

also learning about list and just

18:51

the courage, the mental fortitude

18:53

from both of us, so thank you

18:55

for you, know. lives is no longer here but I'm

18:57

sure her family appreciate.

19:00

the partnership that you hadn't just that the

19:02

car It's that it took you both

19:04

to the evil. There's one less

19:06

had to say about it when speaking with BBC

19:09

Panorama in two thousand and twelve.

19:12

It's very unhappy to story didn't run because

19:14

I cells we've spoken to people

19:16

who collectively. That

19:18

could be heard. They

19:21

won't heard. Then thought

19:23

that was. The me.

19:26

And you were you concerned that actually

19:28

compiling data the?

19:29

The and the heart, yes,

19:32

I was with the yeah, so we had a responsibility

19:34

towards some we've got them to talk to

19:36

us. The bubble we didn't

19:38

believe them. For then.

19:41

So their stores not to be heard. Yes,

19:44

I have very bad about as felt very much

19:46

that I'd let them down.

19:49

Adding in Hawaii Stormer as

19:51

baden in a really powerful on

19:53

this as well and she's

19:56

huge resources or thousand

19:58

as well and that's very important. I'm

20:00

sported ariadne birth, family

20:02

and friends as well, I mean those

20:04

moments before the exposure.

20:07

TV program came out.

20:10

I knew that

20:12

the be single wobbly. They weren't sure

20:14

whether to leave the BBC line or what we

20:16

the side. The sooner the program

20:18

came out loans, some people BBC

20:21

World Side for not so that

20:23

city management schools. And

20:25

what's interesting is? The

20:28

up. When you look at the emails

20:30

to be exchanged when Cyber with

20:32

look what he's gonna die the A before

20:34

when suddenly decide senior

20:36

managers saying we can't make him on assume

20:39

about him because it is dark side. Well.

20:43

I'm nineteen ninety all. Barbara,

20:46

a school fetal, it's okay. Two

20:49

thousand when leads Ruth made

20:51

documentary which can raise default

20:54

rumors. The general public

20:56

talking about to me several. Then

20:59

I did. The BBC senior

21:01

managers people that that.

21:04

predecessors image incident eternity

21:07

The cheap lose simple about

21:10

bringing underage girls back to say

21:12

he did miss it is but said it was for their

21:14

own safety they didn't face in stop

21:17

doing it by. side in all

21:19

the tankers can find out and the contusion

21:21

most the papers because his fundraising

21:24

the celebrity stop and everything else

21:26

and his connections They were in

21:28

a run it, so it wasn't problems, the BBC.

21:32

Thirty. Two senior people do step down

21:34

in the BBC George and with so

21:36

on then a new or as it's there,

21:38

was pullout review does not go

21:40

far enough. I mean, in terms of the

21:43

people who were trying to stop things and

21:45

those who still may be empowering you talked about

21:47

Misogyny and see it in most

21:49

organizations of. Course, but

21:51

it just seems a very light A

21:54

heart's repercussion really and consequences,

21:57

something so dire and so he knows.

22:00

What followed the Polar Review

22:02

was and in the House be

22:04

syrupy? It brought

22:06

in an outsider to run its bus,

22:08

it was anti smoker effectively by the beach

22:11

since lawyers hijacked by

22:13

then. Oh, boy, color

22:15

concluded that the be, but we had

22:17

story of it should have run the earlier. They

22:20

also tend to the conclusion that the must be that

22:22

good reason for why the BBC

22:24

opposite. He never

22:26

came up with what that good reason is. Then

22:29

years later, nobody has found

22:31

a good reason for the BBC to drop

22:34

it. Which leaves us with

22:36

the bedroom. Which is why

22:38

covering up? The BBC

22:40

Food Not Bombs In Both Slums: The

22:43

BBC didn't want financial penalties

22:45

have pet victims, the BBC

22:48

did not want with damage to it's reputation

22:50

and huge damage to what

22:52

he always cool this key absolutely

22:55

t. The

22:57

which was to us. That message,

22:59

the Danish. The British

23:02

People's Trust in the Corporation

23:04

which seeks foisted now by governments

23:07

going to destroy BBC

23:09

for zone results in cyber

23:11

to the likes of Rupert Murdoch

23:13

and some it's. have some

23:16

now with the bbc This

23:18

huge self inflicted lot of swingman

23:20

reframing the arguments the which should

23:22

run. Okay, I remember

23:25

which is called the Red Flag, manage just

23:27

saying this is what happens if we run

23:29

it. The BBC looks bad in

23:31

yellow days to do should now. The

23:33

BBC goes ahead and doesn't run

23:36

it. Those attributes that

23:38

is and me. The

23:40

be three and it was.

23:41

Absolutely not, but that was going to be my question,

23:44

actually, I'm glad she wants to the of. explanation

23:47

really was given because some I'm

23:49

I think was Pullout said that the decision was taken

23:52

in good faith not to run it, but how

23:54

would you know that how would you know that and

23:56

I? They felt very confidently that

23:58

you and lives would spell. The move out

24:00

very clearly as a good. The

24:02

investigative journalist does.

24:04

In terms of what the story actually is

24:07

what it contains as well as the risk

24:09

assessment going either way

24:11

on it so it does seem to be

24:13

a whitewash to me and even in

24:15

the police I'm. i've covered

24:17

various

24:18

They say they hope to high

24:21

level corruption and in particular

24:23

Peter Sutcliffe I don't tend to talk about the

24:25

names as the perpetrators my sense

24:27

of with a serial killer like him just gives the initial

24:30

was but I was very surprised to see sample

24:32

visit. thing with him and pictures

24:35

of that visitation but of course

24:37

there were multiple reports to the place

24:40

Then think West Yorkshire police came out

24:42

with a review that said that there was Miss

24:44

Hands. The of intelligence an inverted

24:47

commas which, to me sounded

24:49

like complete whitewash intelligences

24:52

information for action The on, of course

24:55

there were multiple, please.

24:56

What is involved or can you

24:58

say about the police force isn't just

25:00

that the victims that were brave enough

25:02

and courageous enough to go?

25:03

Wouldn't the decisions taken not to proceed

25:06

and we talk about the? Crown Prosecution

25:08

Service has a separate entity

25:10

because they take decisions to but the police

25:13

response, what in your view was

25:15

going on there? We

25:17

know that the. The in leeds.

25:20

saddle how the Friday morning club way

25:22

of senior police officers coming

25:24

round in our every Friday morning

25:27

that up a few drinks you have

25:29

other? The blue you find

25:31

loner. And he was

25:33

saying when he was finally and feet by

25:35

sorry police. He was

25:37

selling the in show these

25:39

people, they show me letters

25:42

complain and found we talk about it,

25:45

he was very obvious that. The folks

25:47

that belief really screwed his pocket.

25:50

You, if you look, it's the food rolexes

25:53

simple, his lawyers, certain journalists

25:55

and sound. They always get the

25:57

impression of sex.

26:00

Charity inaction is road connections

26:03

Prime Minister and police was

26:05

part of that the swamp you know he was very

26:07

good at getting the second skin on site

26:10

and making it very difficult to say

26:13

the. russians as this expressing

26:15

If you have a crucial roof

26:18

over your head. You're not

26:20

that really deliberately constructed

26:22

that roof. The protection

26:24

from anything, the comments and that

26:26

was composed. Then you say

26:29

so. The wrote only.

26:31

Senior politicians are coming from.

26:35

someone the culture you know somebody who would Raised

26:37

money, please, charity, see whether

26:40

he was a good guy. And

26:42

the cost of taking him on, even

26:44

if he believes these victims. Would

26:47

be very, very hot.

26:49

Yeah, so the phrase I think he said his, "I

26:51

have a collection of senior, please" Come

26:53

and. "The collection, senior

26:56

policemen, save the problem with

26:58

corruption, is that", says. Many people invested

27:01

in keeping not see. Career and not being

27:03

as I trained police officers professionally

27:05

curious and asking the

27:07

right questions that they were just so many

27:09

concentric circles, my was talk about

27:11

serial perpetrator. The net yes,

27:14

most perpetrators if their behaviors onset

27:16

they all serial they just if they may

27:18

get what they want, why would

27:20

they stop? it if there's

27:22

no accountability no fear of repercussions

27:25

no fear of consequence so

27:27

he was offending across lots of different

27:30

victims heights and groups in

27:32

different areas too Graphically for

27:34

the most for police services that are involved

27:37

and, then decisions while should say

27:39

the lack of sharing that intelligence

27:41

and information not just within a police

27:43

service but across them. but then

27:46

the crown prosecution service played role

27:48

When deciding it wasn't in the public interest.

27:51

Who prosecute? And each victim

27:53

not knowing they are one of number

27:55

which in my purse. No experience one, someone

27:58

knows they are one of number. They're

28:00

much more likely to want their give

28:02

up. In trial. The hate the next

28:05

step but if you feel like it's to see you

28:07

on your own taking on this I.

28:09

mean particularly from particularly light him You

28:11

feel very alone, very isolated,

28:14

new probably be much more inclined not

28:16

to keep pushing

28:18

and keep asking questions about that, so

28:21

the Crown Prosecution Service played road,

28:23

see?

28:24

Didn't May yes I'm in the police

28:26

and the Crown Prosecution Service or Time

28:29

was so obsessed with

28:31

the idea that one witness, a one

28:33

victim, my talk to another one and

28:36

the that would plead or evidence

28:38

that they didn't tell? The actions

28:41

that there were other victims prepared

28:43

to go to court and sure, as

28:45

you say. Given the massive

28:47

power. The support that federal

28:50

had. Are you gonna go in

28:52

as one victim?

28:54

Against to call you know I'm

28:56

not even sure if you need with for your food.

28:58

You be more likely

29:00

to eat certainly be more likely to

29:02

if you need of a three or four others and

29:07

necessarily. see guess it's recent reports

29:09

into it and they adjusted how they

29:11

don't split sexual abuse afterwards

29:14

we realize they've got that wrong And

29:17

I think there's some people trying to substitute sisters,

29:19

they're adamant that was, think it was just.

29:23

Thompson's to the police. This

29:25

is warnings them. These

29:27

incidents, they were across it all over

29:29

Britain. Nobody

29:32

ever put says together. The

29:34

told he was reported in late fifties

29:37

early sixties when he saw

29:39

a mcneese intelligence report

29:41

for months and sixty four that loan

29:43

from A,. huge

29:46

amounts of nobody of the for any of

29:48

that to bother nobody took any

29:50

initiative the scale of is funding

29:52

is humbling owners another issue here

29:55

as well in britain and that's how my doubles

29:58

Unlike America, we've done pretty. Number and

30:00

the screen and speech. I know

30:02

journalists have to journalists going right the

30:04

way that Sixties the,

30:06

try to expose Saddle. and

30:09

the nice fight the lawyers say we

30:11

cannot do this Across

30:13

as a million pounds. The sure

30:16

the court will believe, son. The

30:18

people we can put up in court. "Cannot

30:20

do this and that happened again

30:23

and again and again in Britain

30:25

of the is it how libels

30:27

been more like America's" I

30:30

think we would have inspired hundred rights.

30:33

The thousand attacks.

30:35

Yes, that's a huge, and in

30:37

the Netflix sure you do hear from his lawyer,

30:40

he chose one of the talk to you see, didn't

30:42

he go? And he said to his son

30:45

he's not sample is not all his.

30:47

Racked up to be and. when he was

30:49

pressed about it

30:51

and it can't remember he said it's said him the

30:53

is sex offender in p to fall he said that

30:56

may well be true yeah looks

30:58

cool new to see of is certainly

31:00

some by mirror at the time because

31:02

it's been settled in months fool

31:05

Yeah plainly, Palm and

31:07

did not believe that Seven

31:09

was innocent but he was paid the money

31:11

he did the job in a he. he was her

31:14

father you know father was somebody to incorporate

31:16

destroy any case one of

31:18

the most famous folks

31:21

Ah, John was under service and Coronation

31:23

Street, one of their souls, was

31:26

charged with sexual abuse. them

31:29

and managed to destroy the with the says.

31:32

The wrong. Saw

31:35

had to admit that he had carried out the

31:37

attacks that he was an abuser

31:40

for Common was terrifying

31:42

if you're newspaper editor, he

31:45

would destroy any witness. I

31:47

mean, you'd hate now in the meat. Who era

31:49

and certainly what we saw with? Calais Maxwell,

31:52

where the Louis is.

31:53

The to destroy the victims actually

31:55

it works against them and it's

31:57

all well and good to test evidence

31:59

isn't. The is a wedding good and

32:01

it's the way that you do it. destroying

32:04

people in that process and getting them

32:06

further trauma and some may go

32:08

on to take their own lives that I believe is

32:11

seen as. No longer acceptable, so

32:13

shouldn't just be about the lawyers and

32:15

who tells the best story and disk. The thing

32:18

the victims in that process and do.

32:20

The even passing evidence is quite

32:22

rightly true and perhaps. If

32:24

this case, Hood. Hey,

32:26

me, too, would hope that they would be a different

32:28

response will die, one not one hundred percent. For

32:31

than as that I have to say but think

32:33

that's an interesting learning point and wondered

32:36

what. are the lessons that would you

32:38

say that they're all to be learned here the

32:40

other golden Okay, it's because think the Netflix

32:42

show what didn't feel it got to,

32:45

whereas can't wait. We've seen not and

32:47

it's absolutely terrific and Sam's testimony

32:49

is really important and what

32:51

you have to say, but how do we protect

32:53

people better and how do we prevent this

32:55

from happening again in the future, what

32:57

are your less? Then that he

32:59

would say. The very simple

33:02

fix him, do it.

33:03

That could reduce mercifully the

33:05

amount of apiece in a situation

33:07

so. In America

33:09

and many other countries that are all on

33:12

cool Monday, true for signals.

33:15

If you're the heads of school.

33:18

The hospital or church

33:20

or B. C. Sexual

33:23

abuse. The report it to

33:26

you have to report us. Britain,

33:29

there is no such you. In

33:31

Britain. If you have the head. You

33:34

can do one of two settings. You

33:37

can turn a blind eye, let me be scary

33:39

on if it gets out of friends, the point

33:41

that you think it's can be problem. It

33:44

gives them the good restaurants and they go somewhere

33:46

else and he got rid of the Purple Then. So

33:49

Britain, we still have not brought in

33:51

the one of the is. But

33:53

we need. The so another

33:56

symbol, there is nothing to stop

33:58

another several months. You to

34:00

return some? He

34:03

will change. These

34:06

victims lot of people in

34:08

okay food and rental

34:10

place after several. Said

34:13

look, I'm speeds twenty years gone by my

34:15

uncle. I want reports

34:17

it. Where are they were previously

34:19

not believe they were in some ways

34:21

it's didn't you tell me too movement,?

34:25

ah this beginning of The

34:28

holding celebrities. To

34:31

the public days. That again

34:33

said it meets it's possible because in Britain

34:35

it's full of U.S. ceci similar cases,

34:38

Rolf Harris is another popular TV

34:40

star or whole series

34:42

of cases like this, what people been

34:44

protected by the celebrity a

34:47

good guy status. Then

34:49

we can be taken down lot full

34:51

size image. The whole for me

34:53

to change in white totally.

34:55

it'll come far enough and important i still

34:58

think witnesses On a hard

35:00

time in court. We

35:02

still have pool in persecution

35:05

right, super drunk on

35:07

some absolutely unbelievably.

35:10

That prosecution rights so.

35:12

lot more need see don't It

35:14

started me I'm hopeful

35:17

that we will go much further.

35:19

This is a lot more lot more work to

35:21

be done around victims and when they come

35:23

forward and also just the understanding

35:25

that child sexual abuse. While

35:27

the survivors of it's most

35:29

likely were. Talk until they're in their third or fourth

35:31

decades. The'and and is normally when they

35:33

have their. In child or. Something.

35:36

Really powerful was an event happens

35:38

in their life where they feel secure and safe enough

35:40

to talk about this, out of course

35:42

you have various people who say, "Well,

35:44

if it" Really happened, they would have spoken about

35:46

her at the time was that

35:48

just doesn't happen, and we see not I see

35:51

that played out in all my. pace

35:53

work] Then we still have to pass

35:55

these myths, a nice stereotypes

35:58

that people have in their heads include. The jurors

36:00

that actually be no one's, the case goes

36:02

to court when much more likely to get conviction

36:05

if it's sexual by. Then. And

36:07

or domestic violence, and

36:10

it's guessing it there in the first

36:12

place and not having everything played out

36:14

of some I'm making decision whether it be police

36:16

or CPS prior. To

36:18

that price us, so we definitely

36:20

have lot more salon and I

36:23

appreciate your time and wanted

36:25

to keep you for the our and know you've got you've.

36:28

Had a very busy day, so unless is or

36:30

anything else that you haven't mentioned

36:32

that you would like. Then.

36:34

The logic of it, you take me through my

36:36

students, and I think

36:38

seals on the swamp.

36:40

And. I appreciate that and I've really enjoyed

36:43

is the wrong word as I've enjoyed talking with

36:45

you because it's a very heavy subject birth

36:47

I really thank you for your work on. This

36:50

and paid tribute to lists again, and

36:52

hope that we speak another time in the future,

36:54

say thank you very much. Thank

36:57

you. The engine

36:59

kinda came here. What

37:01

a fascinating interview. So

37:03

many things to think about more?

37:05

The team then Marion and List

37:08

made. We say that last

37:10

point. Then I hear that all the

37:12

time. Well, if it really happened

37:15

or if they really were reviews, they would

37:17

have done X Y or said. This

37:20

has been really press. Recently, and

37:22

is deeply hobbling. Even

37:24

if you sadly have. The victimized,

37:27

you know, about your situation, but

37:29

not necessarily about someone else is.

37:32

Everyone situation is new and stuff and

37:34

details on it. "idiosyncrasy

37:37

to them and the circumstances in the call" The

37:39

facts surrounding stuff events.

37:42

That often I see a rush to judgment

37:44

about what real victim would do as.

37:47

well as unfortunately i'm seeing lack

37:49

of empathy and compassion Someone

37:52

well, I'm talking more specifically about women

37:55

when women in particular this. The abuse.

37:58

Hundreds recorded by. That was

38:00

wearing busy questioning and judge in

38:02

motivates him, did or didn't do we

38:05

take her I have? The perpetrator.

38:08

That plays right into the hands of someone

38:10

like Jimmy Savile. They

38:12

always say there's no such thing as A.

38:14

One time rapist or domestic

38:16

abuse, a or stalker, and

38:18

we need to get much better at identifying

38:21

them. That's what are so pissed.

38:23

The time and energy should be on in

38:25

my opinion. Questions

38:27

of them are more they did

38:29

and how we identify them earlier and

38:32

how we better. Protect victim. There,

38:35

until next time, be curious,

38:37

ask questions and always

38:39

trust your instincts.

38:55

My final two cents before the episode,

38:57

Rat. Do you like what I do,

39:00

please takes him and? The leave a five star

39:02

review wherever you listen to crime analysts

39:04

are on the website (www.dot

39:06

dot crime higher than analysts) so calm

39:09

it really helps others find me on

39:11

also helps with the rating.

39:15

Crime analyst is written produced

39:17

and hosted by me Laura Richard Sound.

39:20

engineering by jason chiefly at the bridge

39:23

studio cover off and graphics

39:25

by chris rea boston that syndicate that music

39:28

by kill rude

39:39

I

39:45

don't. know

39:45

Then. Pandemic has been hard on all our kids,

39:47

new studies show more than one in three children

39:50

who started school and the pandemic now need

39:52

intensive reading help that's right millions

39:54

of. Kids in kindergarten through third grade and the United

39:56

States can not read at grade level, here's

39:59

the good. The York?

40:00

You be reading and just thirty days guaranteed

40:02

that hooked on the lips even if you to this

40:04

installing Linux? to teach your child

40:07

to read into thirty days

40:26

Religious thirty days guaranteed

40:28

each screen to thirty to thirty.

40:33

Right now and get started for just one dollar

40:35

text grade to thirty two, thirty two learning do

40:38

now text green to thirty two, thirty two,

40:40

thirty two.

40:41

It's beginning to feel a lot like

40:44

summer and the Home Depot has savings

40:46

on everything you need to get it started this

40:48

Memorial Day step up your grill

40:50

game with propane griddles from next grill

40:53

for the perfect match for the.

40:55

feast with your friends and family around family new

40:57

patio sets from happened back however

41:00

you plan to kick off summer the home depot has

41:02

savings on everything you need to do it right

41:05

feels like memorial day at the home depot

41:07

how do or more