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exclusive podcasts and more, sign

1:02

up at patreon.com/partners in crime

1:04

media. True

1:25

Crime, Pop Culture, other podcasts. And

1:28

in this episode, a man says his

1:30

older sister was accused of killing her

1:32

mother-in-law. But did his brother set her

1:34

up to take the fall? Host

1:37

Amory Seabardson searches for the truth

1:39

in the podcast Beyond All Repair

1:41

from WBUR. Joining me

1:43

to get that done and more is True Crime

1:45

author, TV journalist, and host of These

1:48

Are Their Stories podcast, My Husband, and

1:50

yes, Love of My Life. Sorry

1:52

one listener who doesn't like it when

1:54

I say that. Kevin Flynn. Hello, Kevin.

1:57

You can't be jealous of love. I

1:59

understand. Just annoyed? Yes. Just

2:02

annoyed. Also with us is

2:04

private investigator, certified pet detective, resident cat

2:06

lady, and author of the Piper Green

2:08

series of Coding Mysteries, The Love of

2:10

My Life, Laura Bricker. Hi, Laura. Hey,

2:13

Rebecca. And in my little quaint-ass

2:15

fuck town where I've gotten involved, the scene

2:17

of the Piper Green latest murder is going

2:19

to remain a missing tooth of Water Street

2:21

because our plan to get a park developed

2:23

there soon was foiled. You couldn't

2:25

get it done, Laura, huh? I couldn't get it

2:27

done. I was pissed. You're an empty lot? No.

2:30

Eventually there will be a park there, but we

2:33

were trying to jumpstart it, so I had gotten

2:35

involved with this group behind the scenes that had

2:37

gotten donations and was trying to jumpstart some of

2:39

it getting done, and we were shot down. Ah.

2:42

And finally, our resident Dowding Thomas, the author

2:44

of the City Trilogy of Novels, hosts his

2:47

Stranger Rivals on our Patreon Deep Dive Book

2:49

Club podcast host, Amber Hunt.

2:51

Hello, Amber. Hi. Just

2:54

kidding. And Amber Hunt is, of

2:56

course, our substitute host, and Amber

2:58

Hunt is the host of the

3:00

incredible True Crime podcast, Accused, and

3:03

the co-founder of the amazing

3:05

podcast network, Grab Bag Collab,

3:07

an incredible intrepid investigative reporter

3:09

who is also Pulitzer winner.

3:12

Hello, Amber Hunt. Why,

3:14

thank you. That was all very nice. Well, it's

3:16

all true. I'm only spitting facts, right? I'm not

3:18

saying anything that's not true. I

3:20

haven't lobbied for any parks in my neighborhood,

3:23

but I am super excited about the flashing

3:26

crosswalk that now allows

3:28

my son to get across the street safely

3:30

every morning for school. Nice. Yeah.

3:34

Being a middle-aged woman, super excited. I

3:36

love it. I love it. I go

3:38

out and stir the pot in the little community. Listen,

3:40

the biggest thing that's happened in my life politically, my

3:43

local town clerk just made it possible

3:45

for us to register our cars and

3:47

dogs online. Oh,

3:50

yeah. We no longer

3:52

need to go and

3:54

stand in a stupid line next to

3:56

a hand-painted mural. Yeah, like monkeys. To

4:01

be fair, our

4:03

town clerk's hall is very charming and it is

4:05

very sweet to go there. But that being said,

4:07

it's very easy to forget to do it. And

4:10

their hours are wonky. It's like Mondays,

4:12

9 to 10, Tuesdays, 8.30 to 4.

4:17

And it's just very easy to forget. And then next thing you

4:19

know, you're getting pulled over by the cops. Mondays

4:22

always close. Fridays is a question mark.

4:24

Take a chance. Exactly. Exactly.

4:27

All right. Well, I... I

4:30

want to mention that Amber is here for a

4:32

very special occasion. Yeah, what's that? This

4:35

is the 500th episode of Crime

4:37

Writers On. Oh, yeah. That's the

4:39

front door. Yeah. Go ahead

4:41

and talk more about your fucking flashing lights. That's

4:43

cool. That's cool. No, I'm going

4:45

to go set him off in celebration. This

4:48

is incredible. Yeah, 500 episodes, except for

4:50

Toby Ball. He's like at 498 at

4:52

best, so. Oh

4:56

my goodness. He's the only person who's ever like

4:58

taken off and gotten substitutes, right? No, that's not

5:00

true. Laura Brecker has. I did once when I

5:02

went to Colonial Williamsburg when you guys talked about

5:05

the habitat or something. Oh, yeah. And

5:07

then we had with missing Disappearance of Mora

5:09

McCann, the two of you were gone. Toby

5:12

and I were with Sarah Debunting. Yeah, yeah,

5:14

yeah. We've had Ronald Young Jr. on twice.

5:16

Janet Varney's been on. So, yeah, it's been

5:18

a couple there. I was... I

5:20

missed one because I had cancer. I'm

5:24

not laughing at cancer, by the way. No, you are laughing

5:26

at cancer. I'm laughing at you. Having

5:28

cancer. Yeah,

5:30

I'm laughing at you. He

5:33

is fine now. Yeah, I'm fine now. For

5:36

our 250th episode, we did a big

5:38

thing where we had like clips and

5:41

stuff like that. And I didn't do

5:43

it for this one because... You're lazy.

5:45

I'm lazy as fuck. No, because you're

5:47

busy. Yeah. Well, we're busy doing things

5:49

like planning for our live show next

5:51

weekend in Exeter. It's part of Exeter

5:53

Lit Fest. We have a live show

5:55

at the Word Barn. And Quane AF,

5:58

Exeter, Laura Bricker, tells... about

6:00

what's gonna happen. Well, I don't know

6:02

what's gonna happen anytime Kevin, when Kevin

6:04

Flynn comes to the word barn anything can

6:06

happen. Oh my god, I'm gonna run out of town

6:08

on a rail. I recommend you get tickets because

6:10

you do not want to miss this show

6:12

at the word barn. There'll be so much

6:14

fun stuff happening in Exeter over that weekend.

6:16

On Friday night, we are having a late

6:19

night undercover speakeasy party. Late night

6:21

in Exeter is 830. Wow.

6:24

And on Saturday morning, we will be at the

6:26

Crime and Mystery Writers brunch, which will be very

6:28

fun. I am attending as it turns

6:30

out. Which you are attending and I will be playing

6:33

my most favorite game, Two Truths and One Lie with

6:35

the Mystery Writers. And then Saturday

6:37

night, the big finale. That which is us,

6:39

which is us. Which is us. And we

6:41

will be doing a show, we'll be recording

6:43

an after show. And we will also be

6:45

recording our review of the Hulu series, Death

6:47

and Other Details. And that will be in

6:50

the feed a week from today. Yes,

6:52

with that dirty revolutionary Mandy Patinkin.

6:54

I didn't look, I didn't know who Che

6:56

Guevara was when I was seven years old. I

6:59

was just, he was just had long hair

7:01

and I'm like, why is he like

7:03

looking at this woman who's singing

7:05

to Argentina? I have no frame

7:08

of reference for this stupid musical. I

7:10

know, I know. And you didn't. It's

7:13

just between, I was watching Abbott and Costello

7:15

meet Frankenstein. That's true. And then I cut

7:17

away to a commercial and it's for Evita. Yes. And

7:20

it stuck with me forever and that's a Mandy Patinkin

7:22

reference for those who. That's correct. And

7:24

his costume. And everyone is like, what the fuck? 500

7:26

episodes of this shit. And his costume in that commercial

7:28

was in fact quite dirty. Okay. All

7:31

right. So what's wrong?

7:33

Okay. I think that I cannot,

7:35

so cannot wait to talk about the podcast we're talking about.

7:37

Well, you've waited seven minutes. So why don't you get

7:39

into it? Sure. We've had chitchat

7:41

sections that when we've been trying to stall about talking

7:43

about something that have been much longer than that. So

7:45

let's do it. I can't wait. Let's do it. Leading

7:48

off. Even when asked point blank back

7:50

in 2017, do you think she did it? I

7:56

don't know. Everyone's got a different

7:58

story and this is where I just. kind of surrender

8:00

to the justice system. After

8:04

profiling lawyer, Shane Kariah, years ago

8:06

for her podcast, part of

8:08

his story stuck with host, Emery Seabertson.

8:11

He grew up under the cloud that

8:13

his sister, Sophia, had been arrested for

8:15

murdering her mother-in-law. And it

8:17

was his brother, Sean, who said he witnessed

8:19

Sophia commit the crime. I

8:21

seen someone laying on the floor and

8:25

there was blood all over

8:27

the place and there was someone

8:29

standing over them. The person

8:32

had something in their hand, a

8:35

long object. But something about

8:37

the story bothered Seabertson. Would Sophia

8:39

really beat Marlene Johnson with fireplace

8:42

tongs to steal some money? Why

8:44

does blood evidence only point to Sean, who

8:47

was given a deal to testify against his

8:49

sister? But her own investigation

8:51

takes several turns and Seabertson wonders

8:53

if she'll ever know who's telling

8:55

the truth. All I wanted is to

8:58

know what fucking happened. And

9:00

this makes me feel like I know what happened. In

9:04

Beyond All Repair from WBU All,

9:06

Seabertson offers up a classic murder

9:08

mystery with an enthralling cast of

9:10

characters. She brings a vibrant

9:12

narrative style and leaves no stone unturned in

9:14

her quest to find out who killed Marlene.

9:17

Spoiler alert, we are gonna be talking

9:20

about plot points from the first five

9:22

episodes of Beyond All Repair. Although

9:24

we have gotten preview episodes beyond that, I

9:26

only wanna mention that just in case we

9:28

can slip into that content. And we forget

9:30

to edit it out. Exactly, but if you

9:32

wanna remain completely spoiler free, please go to

9:34

the estimated time code in our show notes

9:36

for our thumbs up or thumbs down reviews.

9:38

I forgot to say one thing, Kevin, that

9:40

listeners listen out for. What? Significant

9:43

plot points will be revealed.

9:47

Samber Hunt accuses in my

9:49

like great pantheon list of

9:51

great true crime all time podcast. In

9:53

large part, and I wanna put you

9:55

on the spot, because if you're writing

9:57

and narrative style for yourself. How

10:00

did I am receivers and has an

10:02

incredible writing a narrative sell for herself

10:04

that actually reminds me a little bit

10:07

of you in some ways already broke

10:09

my know so I don't even look

10:11

at your know just by the aim

10:13

was a movie reminds me of.dot.is Amber

10:15

I didn't even see that but but

10:17

there's a on the rare or right

10:19

s there's a guy. Humor is sensibility

10:21

but also like some real investigative shop

10:23

I am haunting seen just kidding but

10:25

I am offering him isn't a sentence

10:27

of the his case as it comes

10:29

in. And he has been offering

10:31

me his thoughts on all of it in

10:34

the form. Of voice memos and

10:36

cisterna. What? What was going through

10:38

her head And. I couldn't

10:40

help but think like does Ember Hunt hear

10:43

this and was Amber Hunt think of this

10:45

narrative and writing style of and as bad

10:47

as. Well, that's definitely a compliment

10:49

because I liked the writing style quite

10:51

a bit. I. Have wine. Critique.

10:54

And it is a critique. That a throwback

10:57

I myself a lot so that also

10:59

makes sense in that capacity. That's really

11:01

kind of interesting with. the only thing

11:03

that kind of made me pause is

11:06

sometimes. Seems. Over

11:08

relates her own story

11:10

and ways to illustrate.

11:12

Like how universal certain themes are.

11:15

But. It's not necessary, like it's enough for

11:17

in the story. On It's own says

11:19

sometimes it goes back to herself. maybe

11:21

just a tad too much and that

11:23

is something that I'm really cognizant of

11:25

the in my own writings. It's a

11:27

really tricky line. Where were you wanted

11:30

to be relayed bull? You're taking listeners

11:32

on a journey with you. So.

11:34

You're part of that journey. You

11:36

can excise yourself from it, but

11:38

at the same time you don't

11:40

want to. Crossing the line make

11:42

it more about you than about

11:44

this other key site. So that

11:46

was my only node. It's a

11:48

very well behaved, incredibly well investigated

11:50

series, yet. So Kevin I

11:53

just want to give you a

11:55

chance to weigh in here because

11:57

we obviously don't want to spoil

11:59

with Superman is pegged as a

12:01

few years think very the reason

12:03

why Emery is revealing some of

12:05

her owner turmoil and struggle. As

12:07

she reports the story early on

12:09

in the podcast. yeah new. I

12:11

don't want to spoil it because

12:13

it is too good to spoil

12:15

Just you think you know what's

12:17

happening, things come up the zoo's

12:19

your as a listener for your

12:21

confidence in what you think you

12:23

know and later on in the

12:25

podcast definitely will feel Emrys internal

12:27

prices growing. And. I will

12:30

say remember this passage.

12:32

Go. Suck your mother ssssss that that that

12:34

comes up you'll remember Kevin Flynn said

12:36

remember this thing but I just was

12:39

it like off the top disagree podcast

12:41

To me this is like an instant

12:43

classic with a mystery that's like very

12:45

straightforward. And. Compelling, The goal and

12:47

his podcast is always heard of.

12:49

Solve the main question either who

12:51

died or whatever and that's difficult

12:53

because a lot of times that

12:56

doesn't happen is very difficult to

12:58

make that happen at Emory makes

13:00

me believe that she will give

13:02

us an answer and likely said

13:04

we've listened to nine of the

13:06

ten episodes they put out and

13:08

I was freaking out of my

13:10

mind. gets the last episode as

13:13

I used as I. Got a know

13:15

what happened there? Kevin and I we've been

13:17

on as. Yards it w b you are as I.

13:20

Said man I wrote at Emory

13:23

in his. Success is

13:25

like say that Dropbox going to

13:27

updated My not gonna lie I

13:29

am. this is I will say

13:32

Lara the first time in a

13:34

very long time I think maybe

13:36

even suspect season one. This is

13:38

the first time. Ah, now

13:40

I can't say in how long were I have

13:42

been in a situation where it's like. I.

13:45

Was angry so I had to work at

13:47

a really hard like long very busy day

13:49

at work. The other day I listened to

13:51

a bunch episodes in the morning and I

13:53

had to stop. And. I

13:55

was a message. that

13:57

i had to stop listening and it's

13:59

very very rare I think. We

14:02

listen to a lot of podcasts that are

14:04

good and very, very good in instances. But

14:06

it's rare to hear a podcast that like

14:08

you finish an episode and you're like, gotta

14:11

listen to the next one, gotta listen to the

14:13

next one. But she has a lot of the

14:15

right people which doesn't hurt, right? Oh, absolutely. And

14:17

when she ends an episode, like I think even

14:19

the first episode, it's like that last sentence is

14:22

always something that is the hook. It's like when

14:24

you're reading a really good book and they end

14:26

a chapter with like that hook where you were

14:28

like, I'm not gonna turn the page because I

14:31

want to know what happens next. But I mean,

14:33

the fact that we've got Sophia, and we know

14:35

from the beginning now that Sophia is ready to

14:37

talk. The Amory had already had this relationship with

14:39

Shane from her prior reporting job. But Sophia

14:41

is here and she's ready to tell her

14:44

story. And she's not just

14:46

here to tell a story of her

14:48

trial and her case, which is now

14:50

a cold case, but also the family

14:52

dynamics. And I think that's what makes

14:54

this so compelling is that you have

14:56

a couple tracks that

14:59

are adding tension that

15:01

are things that you want to follow along with.

15:03

So with the family story, she's talking about her

15:05

son that she hasn't met, who was born

15:07

when she was in jail. And I do

15:09

not want another one of his birthdays to

15:11

go by without at

15:14

least having an image of me

15:16

and hearing the truth about

15:19

what I'm sure he's read and heard

15:21

about his entire life. That's

15:23

what I realized that Sophia is really trying

15:26

to clear her name in the eyes of

15:28

one person. The only thing he will ever

15:30

know is that I was cute, his

15:33

grandmother is dead. This is

15:36

my legacy. And we've got all the other family,

15:38

you know, Shane as well with the voice memos.

15:40

I mean, I think it's very

15:42

compelling because this is such a study in

15:44

a, you know, when you hear the family

15:46

background, like a dysfunctional family, how does that

15:48

dysfunctional family dynamic then play into this murder

15:50

case? And that is very interesting to listen

15:53

to. I agree. Because very often we hear

15:55

about a murder case and we're like, why

15:57

are we listening to this now? Like what

15:59

is it? it having now, like what's happening about

16:01

this right now. And there really

16:03

isn't like movement on the case right

16:05

now, but the stakes are Sophia has

16:08

never met a son that she gave birth

16:10

to when she was incarcerated. And of course

16:12

we know she got out because even at

16:14

this point in the podcast where you're at,

16:16

you know that she wasn't convicted because it's

16:18

considered a cold case, right? Or something happened

16:20

where it's considered a cold case. So

16:23

those stakes are high, but there is also

16:25

this family dysfunction, which Amber, we hear at

16:27

the very beginning of the podcast. And

16:30

these horrible threatening voicemails from the

16:32

dad. Listen to me carefully. You

16:34

are not ready for what will come down if it

16:36

won't stop your nonsense and keep away. You

16:39

guys attempt to sabotage or

16:42

to trouble me in any which

16:44

way or to try to slow

16:46

down my life. I'm

16:48

going to fight you guys. You don't want

16:50

your playing with, okay? Yeah, that was very

16:52

well set up. I'm surprised

16:54

that somebody would leave a voicemail

16:56

knowing that a reporter was working

16:58

on a piece about

17:00

it because of course the reporter is going

17:03

to use those voicemails. That's crazy.

17:05

What I'm jealous of is

17:07

how well this was organized

17:09

for podcasts specifically. Part

17:12

of that is luck with the case.

17:14

You know, sometimes we choose cases that

17:16

don't have all of the trial recorded

17:18

and this one did, but a lot

17:21

of it was also just very smart

17:23

prep work on the host part because

17:25

she's got Shane because there's a Shane

17:27

and a Shawn. Shane

17:30

is the brother who's looking for answers,

17:32

not the one who testified against his

17:34

sister. So Shane's making voice memos along

17:36

the way. Those are really well integrated

17:38

into the storytelling. She's recording the chitchat

17:41

when she goes up to meet somebody.

17:43

You've got all this great ambient sound.

17:46

It's really made for compelling

17:48

storytelling. And incredible music and sound

17:50

design and we learned in the credits that Amory

17:52

herself did a music for this

17:54

podcast, which is incredible. Yeah, I Think I'm

17:57

going to have to start a rivalry. Yes,

17:59

it's pretty. Like any sort of

18:01

actor, bad We Need Dead Dead says ridiculous

18:03

as he could put it. this. Is

18:07

so. Funny this oh God I heard I heard. You

18:09

know it. It is a partnership with As E S

18:11

P Productions. You know who's E S P As

18:13

or know that a certain Pontiac. All

18:15

right for my. I don't know. I'd over

18:17

with a partner. Should look like I don't know

18:20

if it was a marketing partnership or our resources

18:22

parses. Obviously lot of reporting resources went into their

18:24

Sat in our it's not a W B you

18:26

are Boston based story so I'm not exactly sir

18:29

that looks like that. A Certainly like the next

18:31

thing is gorgeous that is Use It is gorgeous

18:33

A house with a in cabinet. That really strikes

18:35

me is that. Every makes a

18:37

sound easy. It is an overworked it

18:39

sounds. Easy as a whole thing

18:42

put together is the flow is incredible. What

18:44

are your thoughts? And we've

18:46

been talking about her for deliveries

18:48

of very natural conversational style. Like.

18:51

I think this is how say retaining would

18:53

sound if she didn't system as flat this

18:55

American lifestyle. I thought that a few times

18:58

to yeah right and as as as mint

19:00

the sounds like neighborhoods of by said we've

19:02

already covered that and Embers blessing by the

19:04

way. easy to ski and see if we

19:07

haven't even talked about like my we have

19:09

reason to believe that Sophia may not be

19:11

the killer is because brothers saw on his

19:14

Cdf raids yes and so we're Emery does

19:16

is that see shows in doesn't tell this

19:18

stuff seat as puts it out there and

19:20

we. Get up for ourselves, realize? Oh

19:23

yes. What the fuck This guy do what he

19:25

to save it is as he's obviously the. Killer And

19:27

even though Emery says it's see wants

19:29

to remain objective and lack of a

19:31

champion one set of the other, we

19:34

as listeners want to champion Sophia right

19:36

them. It's is a hallmark of the

19:38

great series that as listeners were like.

19:40

Yeah, fuck that were on her side. And

19:43

that's part of the beauty. this, because

19:45

as you go on towards the back

19:47

end of the series, you'll see how

19:49

far you're willing to stay with that.

19:51

And or what point are you willing

19:54

to said say like maybe the things

19:56

that I believed about all these different

19:58

people may be there. not exactly

20:00

that way. Yes. And

20:02

at what point do I want to give up

20:05

on that because we also start hearing Ann Marie

20:07

wondering about whether or not she should give up

20:09

on that and what actually is happening. It's

20:11

very much like the staircase. I'm

20:13

just going to... Oh. This is

20:15

the closest... There's an owl? No. Well,

20:18

there was no owl in the staircase either,

20:20

to be fair. In the original series, there's

20:22

no owl. It's very much

20:25

like the staircase in that you

20:27

have so much access to all

20:29

these principal players and

20:31

you feel like you know what's

20:33

going on. And then there

20:36

are moments where you are like, maybe I

20:38

have no fucking clue what's going on. And

20:41

not only do you have Ann Marie on this journey, but

20:43

she also has Shane. And

20:46

so he's also experiencing that with

20:48

you. And the stakes are high

20:50

for him. Like this is his

20:52

family. It's also like, if you

20:54

think about his life, which is

20:56

extraordinary, he escaped his family when

20:58

he was what, 13, 14

21:01

years old, moved back to

21:03

New York, slept on the train, went to

21:05

high school, got a job, rented a room,

21:07

paid his way through college, then went to

21:10

law school after being unhoused

21:12

in New York as a kid after

21:14

escaping his Jehovah's Witness family after this

21:16

murder happened. His life went on this

21:18

extraordinarily separate track. And it's like he's

21:20

looking through a window at this family

21:22

and really you can tell, is willing

21:25

to sort of let it play

21:27

out, but it's just an incredible,

21:29

incredible unspooling. So

21:31

Laura Bricker, we do have a cop here,

21:33

Detective Rick Buckner. What do you think? What

21:36

do you think about this detective? This detective,

21:38

it's like your quintessential detective, right

21:40

from the beginning when he is

21:42

asked to describe himself or whatever and he says

21:44

something to the effect of, yeah, I'm a big

21:46

asshole or something. And you

21:49

hear him talking about his reputation and

21:51

how he can get anybody to confess

21:53

and how he got the happy face killer to

21:55

confess by like taking him out for dinner or

21:58

something. And he's right out of central casting. Right,

22:00

but the fact that he could

22:02

not get Sophia to confess is

22:05

huge based on his sort

22:07

of track record, but that

22:10

he still believes that she

22:12

is the one responsible. I

22:14

found that super interesting and I was

22:17

just surprised if he's such a super

22:19

cop that he wasn't seeing through Sean

22:21

because at this point I'm like, Sean

22:23

has such a fucking history. Sean's

22:26

got credit card debt. Sean's got his other girl

22:28

who ran away. Like Sean has so many things

22:30

that are like boom, boom, boom. These are reasons

22:32

I would consider this guy. Oh wait, Sean also

22:35

has the blood on his boots. So I was

22:37

like, okay, so this guy's super cop, but yet

22:39

he didn't pick up on this. There

22:41

is no connection between Marlene Johnson and

22:43

Sean Pariah. The

22:46

only connection is Sophia Johnson.

22:49

And Sean had a story for the detectives

22:51

that was about to fully connect the dots

22:54

for them. Actually he said

22:56

that he didn't actually do it, but he was

22:58

there when it happened and that his sister is

23:00

the one that actually blungeoned Marlene Johnson to death.

23:04

I always love it when we have one of these

23:07

cops that's got like the attitude and sort of the

23:09

reputation and now he's like, I'm now the lie detector

23:11

guy or whatever. So to me, I

23:13

just find him to be an interesting character who is

23:16

one of those characters that you almost

23:18

feel like was written because sometimes he doesn't

23:20

seem real. 100% sure he got

23:22

it right, right Kevin? Absolutely. Come join us

23:24

on Patreon. I'm

23:27

just going right for it. It's 500 episodes

23:29

now. I mean,

23:31

why be smooth about it? I'm smooth as

23:33

behind me right now. Now I'm just

23:35

going to be explicit. Join us on

23:37

Patreon at patreon.com/partners in crime media. You

23:40

can get episodes of crime writers on

23:42

early and ad free. You

23:44

also can get all sorts of great

23:46

exclusive content like Toby Balls

23:48

Deep Dive Book Club. I just want to

23:50

hit pause on that for a second. Amber, have you

23:52

ever noticed that the name of Toby's book

23:55

club has the words balls deep in the

23:57

middle of it? Isn't that the point? Just

24:00

wanted to make sure you knew that. Because sometimes listeners write

24:02

to me and they're like, I don't know if you knew

24:04

this, but. And I'm like, of course we fucking knew it.

24:07

It was a listener contest that named the

24:09

book club and a listener came up with that.

24:11

It was one of you perverts. All right, Kevin,

24:13

go ahead. Yeah, Toby right now is working

24:15

on, his next assignment

24:18

is the assassination of Fred Hampton,

24:21

book by Jeffrey Haas. If you

24:23

join at the deep dive level, you can

24:25

watch Toby and his guests record that podcast.

24:27

You can even take part, be in the

24:30

chat section, jump on screen, have a comment.

24:32

There are other book clubs that we offer

24:34

here on Patreon and Laura Bricker has her

24:36

book club and it sounds crazy. What is

24:39

your book club, Laura? My book

24:41

club is the No Rules Book,

24:43

Gun, Smut, and Saber Club and

24:45

we have a lot of fun and I think

24:47

a lot of my book club members are going

24:50

to be at Exeter Lit Fest and at our

24:52

crime writers on show, maybe wearing shirts that say

24:54

smut or something. Oh, Saber? Or Kevin with the

24:56

scarlet letter on them. I'm not sure, but they

24:58

will be there. That'll be me. I will also say

25:00

that there is another book club that we should mention.

25:03

Amber Hunt has her own book club podcast.

25:05

Yes, he does. Over at her

25:07

Patreon, which is Grab Bag Collab. Kick

25:09

ass Patreon. All sorts of great stuff

25:11

there. But we have to ask, Amber,

25:13

why are you stealing our idea about

25:16

the book club podcast and why, are

25:18

you just gonna steal all the good

25:20

ideas? That's the plan. I mean,

25:23

clearly you guys have had

25:25

a good run and

25:27

it's time for a change. Guys

25:29

and Tides, Lift All Both, Amber. I will say, you know

25:32

why people should subscribe to Grab Bag Collab? There's

25:34

an excellent show by me on there. I

25:37

do, I love that show. OPP,

25:39

Other People's Problems. Everyone on this panel

25:41

right here has been on Other People's

25:43

Problems and I think who here has

25:45

won that, not you. Not me. I

25:48

think I won. Not me. I'm a two time

25:50

loser. Were we tied in mine? I can't

25:52

remember. No, I think you won, Laura. I

25:54

think I won. I think you won. Sorry,

25:56

Amber. Oh, I'm jealous. Yeah, I was on

25:58

twice. We're gonna have a- We have

26:00

married with podcast, our advice

26:02

podcast that's out there. Also,

26:11

I want to remind you, you should sign up

26:13

for our Crime Writers on newsletter. It comes out

26:16

every Thursday. It's free. Just go to crimewriterson.com, give

26:18

us your email. You get all sorts of cool

26:20

stuff like you can see crime writers on behind

26:22

the scenes. You get photos of the cat of

26:24

the week, the tweet of the week, the new

26:26

merch we have in the store, the post of

26:28

the week. And we'll also

26:30

have Toby's deep cut, Toby,

26:33

let me say it so it

26:35

shocks Amber. Toby Ball's deep cut

26:37

recommendations on Amazon at our Amazon

26:40

store. Go to amazon.com/ shop

26:42

slash crime writers on. We get

26:45

commissions on qualified purchases. To

26:47

be clear, you can buy all your Amazon shit there,

26:49

not just stuff that Toby says you should. Yeah,

26:51

but he's inspired. But why would you

26:53

deviate from that list? Why would you?

26:56

Why would you? That's bridal comb every day

26:58

of the week. All

27:02

right, Kevin, before we end the business section, I have to ask,

27:04

do we have any Patreon patron saints of the week this week?

27:07

Our Patreon patron saints are

27:09

Megan Maxey and Christine

27:11

Dolmusa. Bless you. Megan,

27:14

Christine, thank you so much for supporting us on

27:16

Patreon. Thank you to everyone who supports us on

27:19

Patreon at every level. And thanks to those who

27:21

are considering doing it. Listen, I'm going to give

27:23

you a push. It's great back there.

27:25

That's all I'm going to say. If you have

27:27

considered it, if you haven't considered it, we love

27:29

you all. Thanks for muscling through the business section.

27:31

Go suck your mother. Kevin, should I go ahead

27:33

and fade that music out right now? Fade it

27:35

out. So, Kevin, you

27:37

thought this show could have benefited from better

27:39

quality sound design? Yeah, better quality is

27:42

always better. That's why I

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like to shop at Quince. Oh, Quince. Imagine

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are you talking about this and not me? This is

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literally one of my favorite places to shop. I love

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Quince. You know who else loves it? It's Laura Bricker.

28:17

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28:23

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28:34

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the love of home. All

30:05

right, Amber, I have a question for you. As

30:07

a narrative podcaster who's made a successful narrative series,

30:10

one thing that this series does is Amory holds

30:12

back a lot of details. Like she tells us

30:14

a bunch of times, this is a cold case

30:16

or whatever, and you're in episode four, so you

30:18

don't know yet why it's a cold

30:21

case, so you haven't gotten there yet. And I

30:23

found myself listening and I was like, I don't mind what

30:25

I don't know yet, and that's a trick. Yeah.

30:27

And to have listeners not feel like, wait,

30:30

what the fuck? Like what's going on? How

30:32

do you do that? Cause you do that really well too. Well,

30:35

thank you. It is a little

30:37

tricky. You have to find this balance between

30:39

giving people enough and earning

30:41

their trust so that when you say, we'll

30:44

learn more about this later, that they know

30:46

that you'll come back to it at the

30:48

right time in the storytelling process. Nothing

30:51

really annoys me more when I'm listening

30:53

to one of these, when everything

30:55

is put off and

30:57

we'll talk more about that in a bit. And we'll talk more,

30:59

you have to give enough along the way so that

31:01

you feel satisfied to at

31:03

least some degree. Right now I'm

31:06

operating from the assumption that she was

31:08

acquitted. I don't know if that's true.

31:10

I'm okay with finding out otherwise, but

31:12

I know that there are ways that

31:14

a case that went to trial cannot end

31:17

up with a verdict. So either

31:19

there is a mistrial or she's acquitted or

31:21

something happens along the way. I

31:23

trust that I'm gonna learn that when the

31:26

time is right for the story. Yeah,

31:28

she unspools things like a really good novelist

31:30

would because she gives the major details

31:32

sort of upfront or sort of like the things that

31:34

you need to know right away and because she does

31:36

that, then you trust

31:38

that you're gonna hear the other things when

31:41

it's the right time. And it's opposed to

31:43

sometimes we're like, well, what the fuck happens

31:45

with this? Why are you not addressing this?

31:48

You don't do that. It's very much

31:51

like you would in a good movie

31:53

or a good book where you build

31:55

conflict with suspense

31:57

or surprise. And so we're left sort

31:59

of in suspense. on this stuff where things

32:01

get revealed. I mean right off the top

32:03

it's like the reason she was accused was

32:05

that she was fingered by her brother Sean.

32:07

You're like, who the fuck is Sean? What's

32:09

all this about? The way she

32:12

does it is very compelling so it does

32:14

pull you in and you're not worried about

32:16

the stuff that you don't know yet because

32:19

you're not impatient for why you don't have

32:21

that. You know it's amazing

32:23

to me the link about why she was

32:25

accused because she was the only link between

32:27

Marlene and Sean. Yeah, can I mention

32:29

I love this cut? Yes. And

32:32

somebody points out later Amber, she's

32:34

five foot four and like eight

32:36

months pregnant at this point, right? And

32:40

so like this murder was brutal. Somebody was

32:42

beaten to death, right, with this like fire

32:45

poker thing. And she

32:47

is this very small pregnant woman

32:49

and that was why she was the focus

32:51

and then Sean said it. And

32:54

then the other thing that happens, Lahara, is that

32:57

all this stuff wasn't allowed in at the trial.

32:59

Yeah. You'll find out more

33:01

later about other stuff that wasn't allowed in that

33:03

will make you even wilder. But

33:05

how do you feel Lahara as a defense

33:07

investigator when you hear about material that

33:09

I don't think

33:13

is, I mean prejudicial against the other guy

33:15

did it defense doesn't seem right to me.

33:18

Well, it is prejudicial and I

33:20

understand I work in this field.

33:22

It's just frustrating because I'm not

33:24

the defendant. She's the defendant. She

33:27

is, but technically unless he has

33:29

any prior crimes of dishonesty, you

33:31

can't just bring in things like

33:34

this because that is prejudicial. And

33:36

I understand why that couldn't happen,

33:38

but still listening to it as

33:40

I'm invested in what actually happened in this case

33:42

is very frustrating because I'm like, I know the

33:44

rules and I know that because this happens to

33:46

me all the time in my work. I'll be

33:48

like, look at this great information I found. And

33:50

they'll be like, we can't use it. Yeah. And

33:54

I'll be like, no. There's very specific rules about how

33:56

you get that sort of background information in. So it

33:58

could come in and like say he testified. and

34:00

he testifies untruthfully, then you can bring in a

34:02

witness who's like, actually, will this happen? And there's

34:04

ways that you can get information in. So I

34:06

understood it, but I think at

34:08

this point in the story, I'm invested

34:10

in the Sean did it theory. And

34:12

so hearing this and hearing that not

34:14

only, you know, is there this sort

34:16

of bad blood between the siblings because

34:19

Sophia takes in his ex-girlfriend who leaves

34:21

him. We know he's violent. We know

34:23

he's got this debt that's over there.

34:25

We know he's got all sorts of

34:27

issues and he's been violent and he's

34:29

in need of money. And it's like,

34:31

hello, that's perfect. And there's $10,000 in

34:33

this house or this coat or whatever.

34:35

So it's like that, when I

34:38

hear it, makes me like, ah, but I also

34:40

understand that there is not a way to introduce

34:42

all of that. But maybe later in the podcast,

34:44

more information will come out. Doesn't it seem like

34:46

very, it seems like it for me, where I was,

34:48

where you are, like the very easy inclusion to draw

34:51

is that at some point, Sophia may have mentioned that

34:53

there's money in this house and

34:55

that Sean is like, that's the connection, right? Sophia

34:57

may have mentioned to her brother at some point

34:59

that there's money in this house and that's why

35:01

her brother committed this crime. I don't understand why

35:03

the defense just didn't say that. Like,

35:05

that's so simple. Like, you don't have

35:08

to go through complicated. They weren't allowed.

35:10

But they could just say that another guy did it.

35:12

They could say that he did it without bringing it

35:15

in. Or they could, I mean, if she had testified,

35:17

does Sophia testify? I don't know. But if she had

35:19

testified, they could have asked her, did you tell anybody

35:21

else about this money? But they could

35:23

also just say that at closing. Like, there's so

35:25

many things that they could do. Just hang

35:27

on to your panties. I am just

35:29

saying, I drew that

35:31

conclusion as a listener and I don't

35:33

understand why the cops didn't draw that

35:35

conclusion. Right. But one of

35:37

the things that's interesting to me,

35:40

Amber, is that I think my

35:42

criminal justice, like social justice forward

35:44

thinking makes me sort of lean toward

35:47

like a 19 year old kid is

35:49

a kid. And, you

35:52

know, the things that happen to that kid very

35:54

much sort of frame who they are. And we

35:56

don't necessarily like want to say a majority of

35:58

things with that kid. But Sean really sounds like

36:01

a terrible person. I mean

36:03

it's really shocking to hear all the things

36:06

he did by the time he was 19 and

36:08

not things that are like mistakes,

36:12

things that seem like sociopathic

36:14

almost. Yeah, no I

36:16

mean unless something's changed by episode

36:19

9, if his character has stayed

36:21

pretty well as they've established it

36:23

so far, he doesn't

36:25

make the strongest witness and

36:27

I am curious why that was enough.

36:30

Yeah. Especially when there was a little

36:32

bit of physical evidence and it didn't

36:34

point at her, it pointed

36:36

at him. Shane told me that hearing

36:38

his brother's version of events finally left

36:40

him more confused. There are a lot

36:43

of details. I, to

36:45

me it sounds like something you would see on

36:47

TV for someone who's coming up with a story.

36:51

What is your perception of Sean at 19, Kevin,

36:53

and sort of his presence

36:56

in the podcast generally? Oh he's shady

36:58

area. It's not a spoiler

37:01

to say right off the top we hear

37:03

voice messages from the dad and from Sean

37:07

to Sophia and

37:09

Shane and again we

37:11

know that she's gonna get all the right

37:13

people to comment on this and

37:15

when you find out sort of like where his life goes, it

37:17

goes in a really odd direction too

37:20

but he makes for a very

37:22

interesting character and then when a

37:24

lot of this is sort of like looking at

37:26

the past, when the podcast gets

37:28

to the part where we're sort of in

37:30

the present and things are

37:32

happening now, that really ramps up the

37:35

stakes and kind of you know the narrative payoff

37:37

that we've got going on here and that's why

37:40

I'm screaming that I could only listen to nine

37:42

out of ten. Yeah. So I

37:44

mean Amber are you curious about the family

37:46

dynamics here because we hear some of the

37:48

stuff in the voice memos but clearly that

37:50

is a thread here. Like do you think

37:52

this podcast is more about murder or more

37:54

about a fucked up family? Well it's

37:56

starting about murder but there was an interesting

37:58

point early on where they start

38:01

reading through psychological

38:03

evaluations of family members.

38:06

And that was fascinating. That

38:08

is immediately where I went, well, this

38:10

is new. I haven't heard this in another podcast.

38:12

I haven't dealt with it in an

38:14

investigation. So there's this

38:16

situation where the parents are

38:18

divorcing and there's

38:21

a custody fight and one of the

38:23

kids who turns out to be Sean,

38:25

the one who accuses Sophia of

38:27

killing her mother-in-law, he's aligned

38:29

with the dad and the other two children

38:31

are aligned with the mom. And

38:34

it sounds like a really fraught,

38:36

potentially physically dangerous

38:38

situation. That's a

38:40

different feel than in most of

38:43

these podcasts. Yeah. Laura, what did you

38:45

think hearing those reports? Because that is, that felt

38:47

very new to me too. That's not like insight

38:49

that we've been able to see because usually reports

38:51

like that are sealed, right? And we don't usually

38:53

get to, we're not

38:55

usually privy to them. No, I get to read those

38:58

reports for my job. And so I find

39:00

this sort of thing very interesting. You know,

39:02

this is something that might show up if

39:04

you're, you know, looking at a case, like

39:06

somebody in the criminal justice, like it's been

39:09

convicted and they do like a pre-sentence

39:11

investigation or something, something like this might

39:13

be in there or if they've had

39:15

like an expert evaluate somebody, but it's

39:17

all sealed and it's all something that

39:19

the attorneys and the judge see. So

39:21

I think in this case, it's really

39:23

interesting because it's setting up another layer

39:25

of depth about the family and about

39:27

the people involved and sort

39:29

of what their motivations are, what their

39:31

personalities are, what their issues are. So

39:33

that as this story unfolds, I think

39:36

that information is going to make everything make

39:38

a lot more sense when you see how

39:40

sort of the chips fall and different people

39:42

land where they do. And I always just

39:44

find that interesting myself. I mean, it's just

39:47

part of why I like doing the job

39:49

that I do is that I

39:51

don't think you really see anybody involved

39:53

in murder cases or, you know, serious

39:55

criminal cases that doesn't have some sort

39:58

of fucked up thing in the their

40:00

family and that's usually a big

40:02

contributing factor into why people

40:05

end up in the place that they do in

40:07

these cases. So I always find

40:09

it really interesting because I think it just sort

40:11

of sheds light on how we get where we

40:13

do when you see where we came from. Yeah

40:15

and Sophia kind of becomes his mother figure and

40:17

it even explains why they all became Jehovah's Witnesses,

40:19

right? It was fascinating. That was

40:21

crazy. The whole situation where they went to

40:24

become Jehovah Witnesses because their family was so

40:27

fraught and dysfunctional and so she said, I'm going

40:29

to go there like three times a week and

40:31

take Shane because that's a safe place to

40:34

go when my mom's not home and my

40:36

mom's at work and it was like super

40:38

boring but it was safe. But then when

40:40

she leaves the Jehovah Witnesses and marries Brad,

40:43

oh my goodness. It gets disfellowshipped. Yes. That's

40:46

a thing. I used to work with, when

40:48

I worked in bridal industry, which I did

40:50

for a while at a bridal shop, I worked with some

40:52

Jehovah's Witnesses and I am very

40:55

familiar with the disfellowshipping because one of

40:57

them was disfellowshipped while I worked

40:59

with her and it was a

41:01

lot. It was a lot for that young

41:03

person. Kevin, one final

41:05

thing I want to ask you

41:07

is without Sophia's personality

41:09

being in the podcast, there's so

41:11

much of Sophia, right? Sophia

41:14

is a very warm person. Sophia is a

41:16

very engaging person and Sophia is a very

41:19

credible person. Could this

41:21

podcast work as well? You mean

41:23

if it was somebody that we were

41:26

hearing about and not hearing from or

41:28

perhaps somebody that we were hearing less of or

41:30

perhaps somebody that sounded different? Somebody that sounded different?

41:32

Yes. No, I mean I think that she is a great

41:35

asset to the podcast and she is someone

41:37

who tells her story very well. We become

41:39

very sympathetic and believe, you know, believe her.

41:42

That's a big thing to have to like

41:44

answer for. Did you kill somebody? And

41:47

when she says that she didn't, then

41:49

it makes it easy to believe her

41:51

when she comes across as somebody who

41:54

is honest and has been

41:56

through a lot and she's certainly suffering because

41:58

she hasn't ever been with her. with her

42:00

son and that's- And she owns up to her bad

42:02

decision. She owns up to her bad decision. Yeah. She's

42:05

candid about the things that

42:07

she did, like her own previous bad

42:09

acts that come up in her story

42:11

and her presenter to trial and things

42:13

like that. So she, I mean, she

42:16

comes off as somebody who's very credible

42:18

and that's important for the story for good

42:20

and for bad. Time for a

42:22

quick break to talk about McDonald's. Wake

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future differently at Capella.edu. Okay

43:37

let's do what we do. Let's let our listeners

43:39

know should they check out the podcast Beyond All

43:41

Repair? This is a podcast from WBUR,

43:43

Larrabrick. What do you think? Thumbs up or thumbs

43:45

down for Beyond All Repair? Yeah, this

43:47

is a thumbs up from me. This

43:50

is a really fascinating case and

43:52

it is told in a very

43:54

compelling way with fantastic writing. You

43:57

Know it's not just a crime story, it's a family story. The.

44:00

A Cold Case. It's a mystery we've

44:02

that access to a lot of the

44:04

players and it's something that when each

44:06

episode ends, the way that it ends

44:08

makes you want to keep listening to

44:10

the next episode. And I am very

44:12

curious to hear what happens with this

44:14

case at the end of this podcast.

44:16

so I will definitely keep listening as

44:18

a big thumbs up for me. Hammerheads

44:20

what he thinks I'm zipper them down

44:22

for beyond all repair had definitely a

44:24

thumbs. Up for me, it's really compelling.

44:26

A small dan I'll definitely center said

44:28

which is actually a bigger deal than

44:30

it sounds like because I make a

44:32

point not listen the same podcast the

44:34

my time off and I'm gonna. I'm

44:36

gonna stick with this one. It's really

44:38

really good can when. I think

44:41

this is an instant classic. This is

44:43

definitely going to be. On my

44:45

top ten list and or bag of can

44:47

be on your top ten lists it's indices

44:49

with. This is where we don't usually use

44:51

to describe. A True Crime podcast.

44:54

It's exciting. It has sort of the

44:56

thrill of fum and was a thrill

44:58

of the chase, but it certainly was

45:01

the kind of thing where I just

45:03

wanted to get to the next episode

45:05

and that doesn't always happen. Certainly helpful.

45:07

Emery's like I didn't spend two years

45:10

doing this. So three yahoos, an Amber,

45:12

Hans, Mississippi, Alabama said it was mediocre

45:14

ib this was really great. I like

45:17

as their lives is dying to know

45:19

how this ends. I might you'll pass

45:21

and people may be. Told start

45:23

listening. May. Well have been raised their

45:26

ass. yeah earnest. a few more. Yeah yeah

45:28

that because like once is stops. I mean

45:30

get sued by words is going. you gotta

45:32

get some. Actually got to get to the

45:34

next one. So and with I don't want to

45:36

oversell it's but for me this is a

45:38

really big sums up the eyes. Quite an

45:40

achievement. Yeah. I'm an overzealous. I think

45:42

this is as close to a perfect podcast as

45:44

I have ever heard. A. Period.

45:47

This, I guess is extraordinarily gathered.

45:49

My favorite straight true crime I

45:51

guess of all time is Season

45:53

One of suspect. I think I

45:55

like this better than season when

45:57

I suspect and that is saying

45:59

something. huge for me. This

46:01

podcast is expertly constructed.

46:04

This podcast is beautifully

46:06

told, beautifully made, and

46:09

what I love about it is that it

46:11

doesn't do the thing that I always say

46:13

these kinds of podcasts need to do, which

46:15

like, illuminates something larger, right?

46:17

This podcast, what it really does

46:19

is it's telling one mystery, looking

46:21

into one family, but it

46:24

is so good. It's so, it's

46:27

very much like the first time I watched

46:29

the staircase and I was like,

46:31

I feel this way. Now, I feel this way.

46:33

Now I think this. Now I think this. That's

46:35

what this podcast does. And I haven't felt this

46:37

way listening to a podcast. I

46:41

can't remember the last time I felt this

46:43

way. I probably suspect season one was the

46:45

last time I felt this way. Maybe the

46:47

first time I listened to serial back in

46:49

2014, maybe, uh, this

46:52

podcast is extra ordinary.

46:54

And like, I mean

46:56

the details, the mixing,

46:58

the music, the writing,

47:01

Emory does an incredible trick, which

47:03

I will say, having made the

47:05

clip a couple of weeks ago, that podcast

47:07

from Celia Productions are overworked and they sound

47:10

like it. This thing

47:12

sounds easy. She makes it sound

47:14

like it just came out of her. Like

47:16

she just opened her mouth and it came

47:18

out as is like it was an easy

47:21

project. I know it was

47:23

very, very fucking hard to do, but it

47:25

sounds easy. And that is a masterclass in

47:27

podcast making. So yeah, this is a

47:30

25 thumbs up for me podcast. And I

47:32

just cannot wait for people to listen to it. And

47:34

I can't wait to talk about it. And I want

47:36

to talk about it with everyone to listen to it

47:38

and tweet at me about it. Please huge thumbs

47:40

up for me for this podcast. It's

47:42

complex without being complicated. Exactly.

47:45

Straightforward. It's fucking perfect. Now

47:48

it's time for my favorite part of the podcast. A

47:50

little something I like to call the crime of the

47:53

week. Coming to our shores soon.

47:55

Titanic two. No, not

47:59

a sequel to the the 1997 Oscar

48:01

winner, or not even the elaborate prank

48:03

movie Walter Cruz played on a fellow

48:06

soldier called Titanic Rising. No,

48:08

Titanic 2 will be a new cruise

48:10

ship made to the specs of the

48:12

original vessel. Australian

48:14

billionaire Clive Palmer announced the construction

48:17

of Titanic 2 is back on

48:19

track more than 10 years

48:21

after his original project stalled. I

48:24

wonder why. Palmer had plans to construct the replica

48:26

of the 56,000 ton boat at his shipyard in

48:29

China back in 2016. Money

48:32

woes and the pandemic scuttled the project,

48:34

but Palmer now believes assembling can begin

48:36

by the end of the year. Palmer

48:39

promised his ship would be quote,

48:41

far, far superior than the original,

48:43

which would kind of be the

48:45

fucking point. So Anchor's Away

48:48

panel, what upgrades would you hope to

48:50

see on Titanic 2? Laura Bricker, what

48:52

do you think? Three

48:54

Wi-Fi for all the guests? That's

48:56

literally what they wrote down. Amber

48:59

Hunt, what upgrades would you hope to see on

49:01

Titanic 2? At least

49:03

two or three or more lifeboats. Kevin Flynn,

49:05

what do you think? Larger

49:07

floating doors. Yes! A

49:09

bigger fucking door. All right, that's

49:11

gonna do it for us before we go. Hopefully

49:14

not a hundred guys shoveling coal to get

49:17

you there all night long. Hopefully

49:20

a steerage section that does not have cages that lock

49:22

people in, that would also be good. Or maybe not

49:24

a steerage section at all. All right, Laura Bricker, that's

49:26

gonna do it for us before we go. I have

49:28

to ask, do we have a Cat of the Week

49:30

this week? Yes,

49:33

the Cat of the Week is Reggie. Reggie

49:35

is in a campaign to get his owner,

49:37

Ty, fired. He

49:39

sits in front of my screens. I constantly

49:41

look over him to work, and then he

49:44

moons my boss and colleagues during meetings. But

49:46

here he is looking all nice and polite in the

49:48

picture that he was sent in. So, Reggie, don't trust

49:50

the nice and polite photo. And don't

49:52

get your mom fired because then how are you gonna

49:54

get your treats? Are we saying that Reggie is showing

49:57

his little cat star on Zoom, that's the problem? Yes.

50:00

Yes, it's disgusting. Yes, yes. All

50:02

right, Laura Bricker, if folks want to reach out

50:04

to you and pitch their animals, could be any

50:06

kind of animal, of course. I prefer the happy

50:08

live ones, not the recently dead ones, to be

50:10

Cat of the Week. How can they find you

50:12

online? You can find me

50:14

at Laura Bricker on Twitter and Instagram. Amber

50:16

Hunt, it's your chance to pitch all the

50:19

things. How can folks find you? Okay,

50:21

so I've got a podcast called Crimes

50:23

of the Centuries that comes out every

50:26

Monday. I've got Grab Bag Collab, which

50:28

is a Patreon-based network, and that's got

50:30

not only Crimes of the Centuries early

50:32

and ad-free, but also shows

50:35

like Dear Daisy with Daisy Egan and Shut

50:37

the Fuck Up Nick cliche with Daisy and

50:39

Ellen Marsh, and other people's problems with

50:41

the amazing Rebecca LaBoy you may have

50:43

heard of her. Find me at

50:45

those places. Kevin Flynn, how can you be

50:48

found? I'm at Kevin P. Flynn, and I don't have any

50:50

of that other shit. So if you

50:52

want to follow me on Twitter or Instagram, you can

50:54

find me at Reb LaBoy. Follow the

50:56

show everywhere at Crime Raiders on, and please

50:58

join our Facebook group. It's fucking awesome. Just

51:01

go to Facebook, find us, and it's a pinned post to join

51:03

the group. Get episodes early and

51:05

ad-free at patreon.com/partners in crime media, and get

51:07

all the other stuff we make there. Our

51:10

theme song was composed and performed by

51:12

Ty Gibbons. Our live editor is the

51:14

wonderful Livy Burdett. The executive producer of

51:17

this program is Kevin Flynn. The

51:19

show was recorded in the Treehouse Yoga Studio

51:21

above the Mockingbird Cafe in Bay St. Louis,

51:23

Mississippi Studio, otherwise known as Studio C, the

51:25

closet in our New Hampshire basement where we

51:27

also ease up on the garlic in our

51:29

hummus when we're having company. On behalf of

51:31

all the crime writers, thanks so much for

51:33

listening. We will catch you later. It's

51:38

just an incredible, incredible unspooling, right?

51:40

Should I come to

51:42

you or not? No? No.

51:45

Okay. Nevermind. You

51:47

were setting me up. I'm going to dance with

51:49

that. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

51:51

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, you're the

51:54

love of her life. I know, right? Not anymore.

52:18

Time for

52:21

a quick break to talk about McDonald's. Wake

52:23

up and bagelize. Get your

52:25

taste buds ready for McDonald's breakfast bagel

52:27

sandwiches. Now just $3 only on the

52:29

app. Choose from a delicious steak,

52:31

egg and cheese bagel, bacon, egg and cheese bagel

52:34

or sausage egg and cheese bagel. Just

52:36

$3 when you order ahead on the app. Hurry

52:39

and seize this breakfast steal before it's gone. Offer

52:41

valid one time daily March 11th through April

52:43

7th, 2024 at participating McDonald's. Must

52:45

happen to rewards.